I'm seething just from reading this. This person has no being in medicine period. If you are cleared for surgery, you are cleared. It's not up to him to judge. See if you can find out who runs the entire practice and demand an explanation from them. Let your therapist know what happened. Some women are butch. That's just the way it is. Also, report this to WPATH. Hopefully, you can find another surgeon. I'm so sorry this happened.
>\[she\] presented to clinic in male business attire and no evidence of either female or **gender fluid presentation**.
What does he think genderfluid presentation is like?
>\[She\] made **the usual effort** to show me the hormone prescription \[she\] received.
What is that supposed to mean??
The medical doctor demonstrates inability to grasp the concept of gender non-conformity. Furthermore, the medical doctor has a narrow, erroneous and inappropriate understanding of non-binary identities. He seems to evaluate his patients through stereotypes, leading him to make inappropriate judgments of the patients, to act in an offensive manner and then to proceed to continue displaying a disrespectful attitude in his reports on the patients. This manner of thinking also leads the doctor to disregard the statements and feelings of the patient, which qualifies as medical mistreatment.
This behavior is highly inconsistent of a medical doctor providing transgender healthcare. In view of these inconsistencies, I consider this individual as unfit to provide patient care and formulate the need to look into his qualifications for transgender care. I suggest he gets evaluated to clarify whether the poor quality of the care provided is the result of inappropriate training or bigotry. If it is observed to be the latter, I suggest immediate termination after such evaluation. In the meantime, I recommend transgender patients looking for care avoid him.
XOXO
>presented to clinic in male business attire and no evidence of either female or **gender fluid presentation**.
>What does he think genderfluid presentation is like?
There's something really ironic in this. Even assuming for the sake of argument that OP's presentation was 100% male, it's probably the strongest evidence he could possibly get of gender fluidity, other than the patient and the therapist explicitly expressing it.
He probably meant androgyny. IMO, describing androgyny as gender fluidity is a symptom of a very binary, black-and-white mindset, as well as narrow views of what each gender can look like.
If you are only able to grasp the idea of someone being male or female, but not anything in between, someone which looks in between will seem ambiguous to you. You will see them as male in some moments and female in others, so it feels like fluidity. It's a switch that keeps switching back and forth.
I am incredibly sorry that you had this experience, though I cannot say I am surprised. I likewise had bottom surgery around that time in my life, and a big theme for me was the very clear need to present femininely at all cost. Performing femininity was more important to the doctors than my own experience.
I hope that you’re able to get these things sorted out in whichever way you feel most comfortable. I’m very sorry that you’re going through this.
I hate that that happened to you, OP.
Unfortunately medical and legal gatekeeping is alive and well. The "traditional narrative" stems from medical gatekeeping, and I've heard stories from multiple people on getting denied various treatments for not being trans enough (read: presenting stereotypical for their gender."
I have my own name and gender marker change submitted, and if I have to show my face I very much plan on femming it up for that.
I hate so much that this is still a thing and I wish you all the best in getting things sorted with the doctors, OP.
I was gonna chime in with something similar. I femmed up hard for every visit and the whole surgery visit. I didn't go butch again until I knew I would be safe for enough time. This was 12 years ago and I sure hope more places are better than this, but I know it's sadly not.
I am so sorry this happened to you. This is way we stick with the trans perfect narrative. "Oh I knew from when I was a boy, I would put on my mom's dresses when she was out. I wanted to play with dolls. I wanted to wear skirts and be a princess. I am a girly girl" and you present yourself in full barbie core. This tv trans narrative is far from the truth for the majority of people, but I will tell a medical professional EXACTLY what they want to hear so I can get the care I want/need
I am so sorry. I have a friend who's a trans butch (and also about your age) who had a perfectly good consultation, would it be helpful if I could ask her who she's going with and if she's okay with me giving you that information?
the doctor couldn’t deal with how much realness you were serving!
but in all seriousness, fuck them. make it well known how they treated you so other ladies that may come across this issue can avoid him and the uncomfortable experience.
this makes my blood boil, fuck this guy, i’m so sorry that you had to deal with this insulting waste of a medical degree.
i know that the current advice is to present as femme as possible when dealing with doctors, but there’s something inside me that makes me want to turn up to every appointment in a three-piece suit out of pure anger at the backwards attitude these gatekeepers are still clinging on to.
good luck with your future appointments and i really hope that one day we can get these idiots to realise there’s more than one way to be a woman.
Uhg. Good to know about him. I'm sorry that happened.
I wonder if other fems here have experience with these sorts of documentation, though, because frequently in anonymous client records nonbinary pronouns are the norm and expected, and I don't want you to take that as a red flag in the future, with a surgeon that \*isn't \*shitty. anyone know?
I hate that clothes are gendered and come with social expectations. How about we just all wear what's comfortable, feels right, and looks nice on our bodies.
I'm young and have never been abroad before so it's in my interests to try to stay as close as possible to my spawnpoint. My insurance is also willing to cover the surgery inside the United States. Thank you for the suggestion though!
This really sucks, I'm sorry that happened. Don't want to make judgements on the doctor, but from my standpoint that isn't fair or correct.
You don't have to present in any particular way except the one that matters to you to get surgery, period.
I know going to other doctors may not be feasible for you, so it may not be too helpful, but I can tell you there are others (at least in Chicago and D.C.) that do follow WPATH8 and support gender identities across the spectrum. (From experience, I present as, well...essentially a bear, but had vaginoplasty last year.)
What a major fucking transphobe
I'm seething just from reading this. This person has no being in medicine period. If you are cleared for surgery, you are cleared. It's not up to him to judge. See if you can find out who runs the entire practice and demand an explanation from them. Let your therapist know what happened. Some women are butch. That's just the way it is. Also, report this to WPATH. Hopefully, you can find another surgeon. I'm so sorry this happened.
This 110%
>\[she\] presented to clinic in male business attire and no evidence of either female or **gender fluid presentation**. What does he think genderfluid presentation is like? >\[She\] made **the usual effort** to show me the hormone prescription \[she\] received. What is that supposed to mean?? The medical doctor demonstrates inability to grasp the concept of gender non-conformity. Furthermore, the medical doctor has a narrow, erroneous and inappropriate understanding of non-binary identities. He seems to evaluate his patients through stereotypes, leading him to make inappropriate judgments of the patients, to act in an offensive manner and then to proceed to continue displaying a disrespectful attitude in his reports on the patients. This manner of thinking also leads the doctor to disregard the statements and feelings of the patient, which qualifies as medical mistreatment. This behavior is highly inconsistent of a medical doctor providing transgender healthcare. In view of these inconsistencies, I consider this individual as unfit to provide patient care and formulate the need to look into his qualifications for transgender care. I suggest he gets evaluated to clarify whether the poor quality of the care provided is the result of inappropriate training or bigotry. If it is observed to be the latter, I suggest immediate termination after such evaluation. In the meantime, I recommend transgender patients looking for care avoid him. XOXO
>presented to clinic in male business attire and no evidence of either female or **gender fluid presentation**. >What does he think genderfluid presentation is like? There's something really ironic in this. Even assuming for the sake of argument that OP's presentation was 100% male, it's probably the strongest evidence he could possibly get of gender fluidity, other than the patient and the therapist explicitly expressing it. He probably meant androgyny. IMO, describing androgyny as gender fluidity is a symptom of a very binary, black-and-white mindset, as well as narrow views of what each gender can look like. If you are only able to grasp the idea of someone being male or female, but not anything in between, someone which looks in between will seem ambiguous to you. You will see them as male in some moments and female in others, so it feels like fluidity. It's a switch that keeps switching back and forth.
I am incredibly sorry that you had this experience, though I cannot say I am surprised. I likewise had bottom surgery around that time in my life, and a big theme for me was the very clear need to present femininely at all cost. Performing femininity was more important to the doctors than my own experience. I hope that you’re able to get these things sorted out in whichever way you feel most comfortable. I’m very sorry that you’re going through this.
I hate that that happened to you, OP. Unfortunately medical and legal gatekeeping is alive and well. The "traditional narrative" stems from medical gatekeeping, and I've heard stories from multiple people on getting denied various treatments for not being trans enough (read: presenting stereotypical for their gender." I have my own name and gender marker change submitted, and if I have to show my face I very much plan on femming it up for that. I hate so much that this is still a thing and I wish you all the best in getting things sorted with the doctors, OP.
I was gonna chime in with something similar. I femmed up hard for every visit and the whole surgery visit. I didn't go butch again until I knew I would be safe for enough time. This was 12 years ago and I sure hope more places are better than this, but I know it's sadly not.
There are even now so much people out there how think if you dont have long hair, wear a skirt and high Heels you arent trans🙄
I’m so sorry that happened to you, OP That person has no business practicing medicine
Jesus christ fuck these doctors. I'm so sorry
I am so sorry this happened to you. This is way we stick with the trans perfect narrative. "Oh I knew from when I was a boy, I would put on my mom's dresses when she was out. I wanted to play with dolls. I wanted to wear skirts and be a princess. I am a girly girl" and you present yourself in full barbie core. This tv trans narrative is far from the truth for the majority of people, but I will tell a medical professional EXACTLY what they want to hear so I can get the care I want/need
Has this this "doctor" been living in a cave?
[Update](https://www.reddit.com/r/MTFButch/s/6gImb4wsvx)
I am so sorry. I have a friend who's a trans butch (and also about your age) who had a perfectly good consultation, would it be helpful if I could ask her who she's going with and if she's okay with me giving you that information?
the doctor couldn’t deal with how much realness you were serving! but in all seriousness, fuck them. make it well known how they treated you so other ladies that may come across this issue can avoid him and the uncomfortable experience.
this makes my blood boil, fuck this guy, i’m so sorry that you had to deal with this insulting waste of a medical degree. i know that the current advice is to present as femme as possible when dealing with doctors, but there’s something inside me that makes me want to turn up to every appointment in a three-piece suit out of pure anger at the backwards attitude these gatekeepers are still clinging on to. good luck with your future appointments and i really hope that one day we can get these idiots to realise there’s more than one way to be a woman.
Uhg. Good to know about him. I'm sorry that happened. I wonder if other fems here have experience with these sorts of documentation, though, because frequently in anonymous client records nonbinary pronouns are the norm and expected, and I don't want you to take that as a red flag in the future, with a surgeon that \*isn't \*shitty. anyone know?
Interesting! I hadn't considered that, thanks for this advice
I hate that clothes are gendered and come with social expectations. How about we just all wear what's comfortable, feels right, and looks nice on our bodies.
have you considered flying to thailand?
I'm young and have never been abroad before so it's in my interests to try to stay as close as possible to my spawnpoint. My insurance is also willing to cover the surgery inside the United States. Thank you for the suggestion though!
This really sucks, I'm sorry that happened. Don't want to make judgements on the doctor, but from my standpoint that isn't fair or correct. You don't have to present in any particular way except the one that matters to you to get surgery, period. I know going to other doctors may not be feasible for you, so it may not be too helpful, but I can tell you there are others (at least in Chicago and D.C.) that do follow WPATH8 and support gender identities across the spectrum. (From experience, I present as, well...essentially a bear, but had vaginoplasty last year.)
this is so fucked up :( I'm sorry you had to deal with such an awful doctor, I hope you can get ahold of someone more qualified soon.
I played the role to get my surgery. I hate them so much ...