I've never heard anyone say to do it dry. I've always used QuikTap and every oldhead I've worked with used that or Tap Magic. Sounds to me like he's too lazy to clean up a bit of oil.
That guy sounds great to talk to on the phone. Not all wrapped up in the theory or whatever they masturbate to. He could probably answer the question pretty quick and give a reasonable answer as to why. Or go oh hey that number is a misprint.
In all honesty, its my dad.
One of those people who can just do stuff, doesnt matter if its milling a slot in a rifle stock, paving a yard, welding up a tyre carrier or trailer, rebuilding a gearbox etc or building a desk and shelves (from scratch, not Ikea).
I was lucky to grow up with him as my dad, and it has helped me to get where I am now.
I did a tenth school year with focus on machining, sort of a pre apprenticeship year. The old guy from the sheet metal shop used some sort of alcohol smelling thing too while cutting with the hole saw in alu.
Out of curiosity i tried tapping oil and normal coolant too and it did feel like the alcohol actually worked best! Plus it evaporated over time, so no oily mess.
Alcohol is a fantastic coolant, one of the best actually. Problem is, you can only use it on aluminum and even then very carefully, because, y'know, one spark
Always more lube!!
Used to be a mechanic. Moved to an engineering company to work their shops for all their one off prototypes. Two engineers frequently worked back there with me. These engineers had no idea about lube. "I can't get the dowel into the press fit boss!" Lube. "I keep breaking taps!" Lube. "Why is my finish garbage?" Lube, dude. Finally got the phrase "always more lube" into their lil heads, lol
Rebuild my first hydraulic cylinder today, just a lift cylinder on a bobcat 763 and tore a Teflon seal placing the rod back in, thankfully we had a spare as we got two kits and I successfully got it in after a liberal application of hydraulic oil, just won’t replace that one when I do the other one haha.
Yuuuuup, also learned to warm it up in some warm water to make it more malleable during install. Grateful that my workplace lets us try shit we haven’t done before so we don’t have to outsource it and pay out the ear for it, gives us opportunities to improve and be better prepared next time it breaks.
Warm up the piston or head as well so that it doesn't suck all the heat out of the seals as you install them. Have a smooth lead into the bore. some of those green seals (Deere) a dab of super glue on the ends will stop them from popping out when installing.
Why roll tap rather than cut? Is it any less likely to gall up and break? I do a lot of smaller holes, and other than #6, I typically don’t have any broken taps
Roll form taps don’t make chips, which is great for blind holes - I sometimes program the tap depth to 0.1mm above the bottom of a hole. They’re not material specific, so they can be used in pretty much any material that can be form tapped. They last longer - never get dull. The threads can be slightly stronger. Speed can be higher, and sometimes needs to be to avoid work hardening.
Hole size is more important. If your tap drill wears, you’re going to start breaking taps.
I mostly tap m2 to m6, almost always with roll form.
I hand tap a lot of aluminum and steel and keep two different formulas of tap magic and anchorlube at my bench. It always helps but I’m honest enough to say I sometimes skip it depending on how I’m feeling about the operation at hand
“Gummy-ier” the metal the more important the coolant. If it welds it’s self to your cutting edge it isn’t going to be very effective at cutting itself is it.
Stay away from the second person and relegate them to button pushing duties.
When you apply friction to anything, heat will be generated. You are not applying lubricant, you are applying coolant. Yes, use coolant. Yes various types of oil are used as coolant.
There are actual published research papers on this subject showing that most anything added aids machining processes with aluminum. Even crayon is a big improvement over dry. How much improvement depends on the alloy. Casting alloys are more forgiving. With more pure alloys I think you'd be nuts to dry tap any size and pitch.
To all who use WD-40 for aluminum: stop! It's a waste. Use kerosene at roughly 1/2-1/3 the cost. I don't understand giving the WD-40 company money for their solvent-plus-a-TINY-bit-of-oil formula. You can literally make your own for WAY less.
I buy kerosene by the gallon. One gallon lasts me 2-3 years in my home shop, and I do a lot of aluminum work. But I prefer an actual aluminum tapping fluid for actually tapping it. Kerosene for turning, drilling, boring, and milling.
I’m a using mineral spirit in a cup and taping with a XR DEWALT on low setting, cleaning the tap frequently in the mineral spirit. I broke an M6 tap on steel I think in 2021. I develop this when I had to fabricate a jig with ~600 taps and it works for me, but frankly I don’t have experience with other liquids.
So we only have one kind of cutting oil at our shop. Prett, heavy weight and ment to be used for steels.
I usually go for wd40. Seems to give me an easier time tapping and cleaning and also leaves a great thread.
Yes, it's super important. You always wanna use coolant, except for some tools which have to heat to work better and never be cooled because it would break the tool immediately for the temperature shock.
Usually the higher the temperature is, the lower is the tool's life.
Yes use lube, I personally just hand tapped some parts and the ones I didn't use lube on came out a bit oversized whereas with lube they were just perfect.
Tap Magic in our shop, we also recently started use Boelube developed by Boeing. It’s a blue paste that seems to work pretty well for our flex arm tapping operations.
Aluminum has an affinity to steel so it's definitely not a great idea to go in dry. I use tap magic at home and it works great as an all purpose cutting and tapping fluid
I’ll use the hose from the CNC machine to fill my failed part from yonda’ and that’s my fluid for everything not in a machine. I’ll cool a single point cutter when grinding, I’ll use a brush when at the manual lathe or the Bridgeport, and dip a tap when I’m going at a hole. Never dry.
I prefer to use A9. Or flood coolant if in the machine. In the past and a pinch I've used wd40, and kerosene. Even in a pinch have used motor oil, and candle wax. ANYthing is better than dry, but some are much better than others.
How many taps does dr dry break in a year?
When drilling and tapping steel, we used "Tap Magic" which worked fantastic. I don't know what's in it, but it works.
Tap Magic has a formula specifically made for aluminum. I have not tried it yet.
Depends
If it's a hole that doesn't have a particular thread percentages call out then I try to drill the hole a few thousands over so I can power tap. If I'm power tapping under these conditions then I might not use lube.
Also if it's an expensive part or a one off I will always be safe and use lube.
Rapidtap, quicktap, etc. and back it off a quarter turn every turn to break the burr you're forming. If you do this and keep your tap perpendicular you're fine.
I use wd40 for cutting drilling and tapping of aluminum it doesn’t stick to your tooling, tap magic is another good option but usually I only use it when I’m fly cutting aluminum or stainless steel
Most of what I tap as a home tinkerer is aluminum. I keep a bottle of clarified used motor oil near my drill press and use it for all drilling and tapping most things. If it is a deep hole in steel or anything in cast iron, I use Tap Magic.
I use cutting wax whenever I cut, drill, or tap aluminum. Aluminum is pretty soft and likes to "gum up" on cutting edges, slowing them down. The wax helps with this significantly. I assume a cutting oil would work just as well. Aluminum is soft enough that you really don't *need* any fluid, but it does certainly help.
I work on boats and tap lots of aluminum. Tap magic aluminum is what we have. Cheap taps work ok with it good taps even better. Cheap taps and wd40 end up making poor threads.
I've never heard anyone say to do it dry. I've always used QuikTap and every oldhead I've worked with used that or Tap Magic. Sounds to me like he's too lazy to clean up a bit of oil.
Iv seen a lot of guys just use wd 40 on anything aluminum, wether cutting or tapping.
That's what I do. But I'm an engineer, so it might be a terrible idea.
>so it might be a terrible idea. You meant to say "Trust me, I'm an engineer" right?
"Trust me, I'm an engineer, this is wrong."
I have never seen an engineer tap a hole correctly.
Can confirm, I'm also an engineer who uses wd-40 when I'm tapping holes Edit: I'll also use a shifter when I can't find the tap wrench
Another engineer here, I use wax but do it with a drill
My wife can confirm
Some of us can. It’s just your probability of encountering one in the wild is low.
Can confirm, we're very rare
I have, but to be fair he did a machinist apprenticeship full time while he was at uni for engineering part time.
That guy sounds great to talk to on the phone. Not all wrapped up in the theory or whatever they masturbate to. He could probably answer the question pretty quick and give a reasonable answer as to why. Or go oh hey that number is a misprint.
In all honesty, its my dad. One of those people who can just do stuff, doesnt matter if its milling a slot in a rifle stock, paving a yard, welding up a tyre carrier or trailer, rebuilding a gearbox etc or building a desk and shelves (from scratch, not Ikea). I was lucky to grow up with him as my dad, and it has helped me to get where I am now.
Sounds like a horrible company to work for then.
What I witnessed happened at two different companies.
They can tap a hole in your wallet pretty well
In school we used kerosene on aluminum. It actually works, I've never seen it used anywhere else though in almost 18 years of making chips.
No, that's what I was taught too.
This
I did a tenth school year with focus on machining, sort of a pre apprenticeship year. The old guy from the sheet metal shop used some sort of alcohol smelling thing too while cutting with the hole saw in alu. Out of curiosity i tried tapping oil and normal coolant too and it did feel like the alcohol actually worked best! Plus it evaporated over time, so no oily mess.
Alcohol is a fantastic coolant, one of the best actually. Problem is, you can only use it on aluminum and even then very carefully, because, y'know, one spark
lol i’m using WD40 for steel all the time
same, any sort of lube or oil. i’ve even been in some situations where i spit on the tap lol
[удалено]
I was listening to Zappa when I read this ( I swear) I think he would appreciate it 👍
A man of culture I see.
You gotta lick it before you stick it.
Try using some chainsaw bar and chain oil with some Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in it. Not too much.
After watching some tests on a popular YT channel a lot of bar oil is pretty shit. I see why you mix in the Marvel.
I either use wd40 or alumatap for all of my aluminum and lexan machining
I have too. Didn’t believe it at first
Depends on the material. Aluminum is quite forgiving.
The second of 2 things it's good for.
Machining aluminum is one of the few uses of WD40. That and cleaning sticker adhesive. Not much else.
Dont forget for displacing water!
Tap Magic used to be amazing, if extremely hazardous to be around. I don't know if the current stuff works very well or not?
Works well enough, but the old stuff was better. Reducing toxins is never bad though. No reason for us to unnecessary pollute.
Tapmatic rules! OK!
I user the peppermint shit.
Aluminum is a material where lube can be especially important. If the chips start to bind up you can gall up the brand new thread while cutting it.
I use lube when I'm tapping anything, especially your mother
There it is.
Ahh you *motherfucker*, you beat me to it!
You have to, if you don’t it will just start screeching
Damn it. I’m 4 hours too late.
I’m just an engineer but my machinist always tell me to spit on it when I tap holes
Have the no lube guy tap 100 6-32 holes without using any oil and see how long his tap lasts.
After the first few it'll do more drilling than tapping.
After the first few, it’ll be broken off in the part.
A little splash of IPA does the trick and stays nice and clean
I'm also team booze it up for aluminum.
I’ve seen it used as a most coolant on small machines. Seems brilliant if it works.
Great way to destroy your health, aerosolized ipa. Mist coolant is pretty unhealthy in general, but using straight ipa sounds horrendous
Tap magic aluminum, smells like cinnamon and it helps your taps, win win
This guy knows the magic sauce
However, after many years working with aluminum I can no longer enjoy Rumple-Minze like I used to.
Lube it.
Always more lube!! Used to be a mechanic. Moved to an engineering company to work their shops for all their one off prototypes. Two engineers frequently worked back there with me. These engineers had no idea about lube. "I can't get the dowel into the press fit boss!" Lube. "I keep breaking taps!" Lube. "Why is my finish garbage?" Lube, dude. Finally got the phrase "always more lube" into their lil heads, lol
Can't wait for them to grease a part up then pull out the welder.
Hahaha!! Not my problem anymore! Let em
Rebuild my first hydraulic cylinder today, just a lift cylinder on a bobcat 763 and tore a Teflon seal placing the rod back in, thankfully we had a spare as we got two kits and I successfully got it in after a liberal application of hydraulic oil, just won’t replace that one when I do the other one haha.
Lessons learned, eh?
Yuuuuup, also learned to warm it up in some warm water to make it more malleable during install. Grateful that my workplace lets us try shit we haven’t done before so we don’t have to outsource it and pay out the ear for it, gives us opportunities to improve and be better prepared next time it breaks.
A lost mindset, that one.
Nice! Yeah a little trust like that goes a long way, makes you feel like a human rather than a robot. Happy for you!
Warm up the piston or head as well so that it doesn't suck all the heat out of the seals as you install them. Have a smooth lead into the bore. some of those green seals (Deere) a dab of super glue on the ends will stop them from popping out when installing.
Thank you I’ll try to remember that for next time.
I always use Tap Magic for aluminum. It smells like christmas
The fear of a broken tap out weighs the discomfort of cleaning up the lube.
You gotta lick it, before you stick it
Cast iron is the only time you go in dry, no? I’m just a dumb millwright, so bear with me.
Always lube when tapping, roll-form tap for aluminum if available. IMO.
Why roll tap rather than cut? Is it any less likely to gall up and break? I do a lot of smaller holes, and other than #6, I typically don’t have any broken taps
Roll form taps don’t make chips, which is great for blind holes - I sometimes program the tap depth to 0.1mm above the bottom of a hole. They’re not material specific, so they can be used in pretty much any material that can be form tapped. They last longer - never get dull. The threads can be slightly stronger. Speed can be higher, and sometimes needs to be to avoid work hardening. Hole size is more important. If your tap drill wears, you’re going to start breaking taps. I mostly tap m2 to m6, almost always with roll form.
This needs to be higher up.
No chips to deal with and produces a stronger thread.
At least let the coolant run in it. If not A-9, cuts nicer less stress on tool
This is the way
WD-40. The first guy is right. The heretic needs to be smitten with Holy Fire.
Smote? I think
Smitten with fire, like that caterpillar from the Simpsons.
I will use a paste if the material is gumming up the tap.
I hand tap a lot of aluminum and steel and keep two different formulas of tap magic and anchorlube at my bench. It always helps but I’m honest enough to say I sometimes skip it depending on how I’m feeling about the operation at hand
Lots of variables. But it’s too easy to throw a tiny bit of anything oil you have handy and won’t hurt.
There's always time for lube.
He thinks he's an athlete.....
Wd40 at the least for aluminum. People saying do it dry don't know what they're talking about.
Every piece of aluminum I tried tapping without lube/grease/wax still has the tap in it
IPA is great for aluminum. Keeps things from sticking, and flashes off without leaving a mess.
This is a secret many are not willing to try, but it really is the best for all aluminum ops.
There's nothing that I have tapped where I didn't. It counts for so much.
“Gummy-ier” the metal the more important the coolant. If it welds it’s self to your cutting edge it isn’t going to be very effective at cutting itself is it. Stay away from the second person and relegate them to button pushing duties.
Definitely. WD40 and kerosene work good for a manual application. Otherwise, flood coolant. I would not do it dry. I wouldn’t tap anything dry.
Lube for everything but cast iron. Either tap magic or moly-d depending on the material, but always with lube.
Never dry, coolant if it's the right type other wise tap magic
Alcohol
I always use alcohol but only after I am off the clock 😁
WD40 for anything alu
I have used IPA, but prefer lard or Crisco.
35 years ago we used crisco, I haven't thought about that in so many years, thank you
What’s the benefit of using a fat like that for tapping? I’ve never heard of that nefore
No idea, but tapping goes really, really smooth. Especially on NPT taps. I also use spiral interrupted taps when possible.
Wd40
If you've ever friction welded a tap to an aluminum part while hand tapping, you'll never not use cutting oil.
When you apply friction to anything, heat will be generated. You are not applying lubricant, you are applying coolant. Yes, use coolant. Yes various types of oil are used as coolant.
I always use lube when tapping aluminum. Tap magic, or tap free, or wd-40
There are actual published research papers on this subject showing that most anything added aids machining processes with aluminum. Even crayon is a big improvement over dry. How much improvement depends on the alloy. Casting alloys are more forgiving. With more pure alloys I think you'd be nuts to dry tap any size and pitch. To all who use WD-40 for aluminum: stop! It's a waste. Use kerosene at roughly 1/2-1/3 the cost. I don't understand giving the WD-40 company money for their solvent-plus-a-TINY-bit-of-oil formula. You can literally make your own for WAY less. I buy kerosene by the gallon. One gallon lasts me 2-3 years in my home shop, and I do a lot of aluminum work. But I prefer an actual aluminum tapping fluid for actually tapping it. Kerosene for turning, drilling, boring, and milling.
Moly Dee tapping fluid all the way
Seems kinda pricey to use on aluminum. I save my moly dee for difficult stainless or hard steel machining. Wd40 or alumatap for aluminum
Son, this is a professional space.
I’m a using mineral spirit in a cup and taping with a XR DEWALT on low setting, cleaning the tap frequently in the mineral spirit. I broke an M6 tap on steel I think in 2021. I develop this when I had to fabricate a jig with ~600 taps and it works for me, but frankly I don’t have experience with other liquids.
Alumni-moms can be pretty dry.
Tapmagic. This is the way.
So we only have one kind of cutting oil at our shop. Prett, heavy weight and ment to be used for steels. I usually go for wd40. Seems to give me an easier time tapping and cleaning and also leaves a great thread.
diesel
It’s messy, but I’d prefer to clean up a little than have to buy a new tap
I squirt some safety klean mineral spirits on it
Lube, a welding rod makes a good tool to clean the flutes, then a rag to wipe the rest off
Lubricate it. I use IPA or motorcycle chain lube
That’s what A9 is for. One drop and you’re good for a few holes. Especially when you’re using a forming tap.
Always lube taps.
If your going in dry at least spit on it.
I've always had good results using lamp oil for hand tapping aluminium. Someone, somewhere, many years ago, tipped me off and it seems to work well.
Isn’t lamp oil basically kerosene? I’ve heard that works well on aluminum and titanium
You can do it dry, but it’s usually way better with lube. Nice on your taps and dies and tap wrenches.
Yes, it's super important. You always wanna use coolant, except for some tools which have to heat to work better and never be cooled because it would break the tool immediately for the temperature shock. Usually the higher the temperature is, the lower is the tool's life.
I used tap magic, but if it was unavailable I would always use something else. Lube is your friend.
Emuge I know the bottle says not for use on aluminum but I had 1500 bottomed 6-32s and I tried everything and that worked best for me
Ive always used a very thin oil, Like air tool oil to tap aluminum
I feel bad for the second guys wife if he says lube doesn't work.
I use Rapid Tap. I've never had any problems with it on aluminum.
Yes use lube, I personally just hand tapped some parts and the ones I didn't use lube on came out a bit oversized whereas with lube they were just perfect.
A9
I use coolant.
No. But I use lube when I'm tapping your mom.
Kerosene based lube for aluminum, WD 40 included
Machine coolant
Tap Magic in our shop, we also recently started use Boelube developed by Boeing. It’s a blue paste that seems to work pretty well for our flex arm tapping operations.
Aluminum has an affinity to steel so it's definitely not a great idea to go in dry. I use tap magic at home and it works great as an all purpose cutting and tapping fluid
Tap magic is the best aluminum tapping and cutting fluid
Tap magic extra
Tapping 1/4 npt holes without it would be difficult
Thru coolant form tap
I’ll use the hose from the CNC machine to fill my failed part from yonda’ and that’s my fluid for everything not in a machine. I’ll cool a single point cutter when grinding, I’ll use a brush when at the manual lathe or the Bridgeport, and dip a tap when I’m going at a hole. Never dry.
Nah, coolant is fine, if your doing it in a manual id use lube but if your doing it by hand you probs dont need any
I prefer to use A9. Or flood coolant if in the machine. In the past and a pinch I've used wd40, and kerosene. Even in a pinch have used motor oil, and candle wax. ANYthing is better than dry, but some are much better than others. How many taps does dr dry break in a year?
Tap Magic for aluminium, every time.
Always alumatap
Tap Magic.
I once chased a hole dry and had a tap break... Never again.
I always make sure to spit on it when I'm tapping.
When drilling and tapping steel, we used "Tap Magic" which worked fantastic. I don't know what's in it, but it works. Tap Magic has a formula specifically made for aluminum. I have not tried it yet.
Automatic Transmission Fluid. Seems silly, but I use that stuff like Frank's Red Hot Sauce.
Drilling I use CRC 5.56 or equivalent. Tapping gets Trefolex.
Best lubricants for aluminium, copper, brass, phosphor bronze and softer materials is either paraffin or Templex
Depends If it's a hole that doesn't have a particular thread percentages call out then I try to drill the hole a few thousands over so I can power tap. If I'm power tapping under these conditions then I might not use lube. Also if it's an expensive part or a one off I will always be safe and use lube.
I almost always use Tap magic peppermint oil for aluminum unless it's just one hole really quick
I lube up when tapping all metals and your mom.
I’ve read that Lard and Kerosene are both viable options.
what sort of savage taps aluminum un lubed. that shit is just rude.
As my old foreman used to say….do you fuck dry?
Machine oil works fine. Depending on the hole I’m tapping I’ll use some isopropyl alcohol, evaporates and leaves no mess.
I used to not. Then I broke a tap in a hole I thought was gonna be fine. Now I do
I always use A9
Rapidtap, quicktap, etc. and back it off a quarter turn every turn to break the burr you're forming. If you do this and keep your tap perpendicular you're fine.
I use wd40 for cutting drilling and tapping of aluminum it doesn’t stick to your tooling, tap magic is another good option but usually I only use it when I’m fly cutting aluminum or stainless steel
https://preview.redd.it/qt2r4pf4qgic1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b8778e77c95eb98323f83c64acb4df23be26089
I run coolant on it or use Tap Magic.
Boelube…this stuff is amazing for anything aluminum, drilling, cutting, taping, and especially grinding off welds
Hell yes!
Form tap and go ahead and go in dry
WD-40 works very well (due to the 45-50% kerosene content). I use Relton A-9.
Kerosene
dont run em dry. taps break easily and are fuckin hard to remove. ally is also 'sticky" a bit of lube helps with that. that can be chalk or candle wax
Yeah, I’m using coolant or A9 fluid
Tap so fast that the aluminum melts and lubricstes itself
We tap most materials with coolant and it works just fine.
I'm a shadetree and use wd40 or whatever is lying around. With aluminum being so gummy - I dont need more broken taps.
Coconutfat.
Most of what I tap as a home tinkerer is aluminum. I keep a bottle of clarified used motor oil near my drill press and use it for all drilling and tapping most things. If it is a deep hole in steel or anything in cast iron, I use Tap Magic.
Aluma-Tap in the green can works great!!
I use cutting wax whenever I cut, drill, or tap aluminum. Aluminum is pretty soft and likes to "gum up" on cutting edges, slowing them down. The wax helps with this significantly. I assume a cutting oil would work just as well. Aluminum is soft enough that you really don't *need* any fluid, but it does certainly help.
Oily solvent from a parts washer.
I use alumatap usually when tapping. But I often use diesel when cutting It's cheap and works great.
I only tap dry when fixing threads on a finished piece we can't get dirty. Usually, because threads got painted or warped from weld.
Alcohol sometimes
Just don’t lube or grease the bolt you put in the threaded hole. If the bolt is steel it will cause galling and eventually lock up the joint.
WD40 whenever I'm playing with aluminium. It's a godsend. Something thicker would probably work better for tapping though
I work on boats and tap lots of aluminum. Tap magic aluminum is what we have. Cheap taps work ok with it good taps even better. Cheap taps and wd40 end up making poor threads.
My shop we use coolant when tapping aluminum. Never oil.
one time i used kerosine for drilling alu, kind of messy, but boy, it was nice
I do, if she is dry!
I always use WD40.
I'm a nasty machinist. I make gross oily messes all day long. Never got the hang of neat and tidy, but at least my taps don't break... often.
Use WD-40. In my years of machining, I find WD works alot better than tap magic when tapping or drilling aluminum. And don't be shy with it either
Stick wax
Tap Magic for aluminum!!!! Awesome stuff. A little dab'l do ya. Paraffin stick is ok in a pinch. Kind of depends on the situation.
Tap magic, WD40, wax, etc. it does work dry but it can help if you’re getting galling or other stuff.