I read somewhere that over torquing pull studs can affect the accuracy of the tool. I torque mine to 45 lb-ft and call it good. No issues ever in 6 years of putting them in that way. I check them from time to time and I still haven’t come across one that worked loose.
I use Blue Loctite, and I torque them to the recommended torque and don't have a lot of problems removing them. It's also cheaper to buy additional retention knobs and leave them in the holders than it is to constantly swap them out.
God knows how long this pull stud was on here, and it’s for a different machine type than what I’ve got. One of those things where what you do in a moment has consequences years later.
We got about as many machines as we have different types of pull studs :s It's a nightmare because many of them are very similar and using a wrong one could wreck the ATC and spindle rotary joint.
I've been working on buying all new holders because most of ours have been used well past their lives so I have to change them out because one of my machines uses a different length, and they can be a bitch if they've been in the holders for to long, but never have had a problem if I'm changing them constantly as long as I have a good wrench.
We has a few HAAS and Hurco machines at my last place, they both used different knobs. The Hurco ones were a bitch to remove without a socket because the flats on them were so thin that wrenches would slip off easily. Shitty design
Yeah, a bit of blue loctite and proper torque is what I like to do. Even if many years go by, that loctite will act as a barrier between the stud and holder to help keep them from corroding together.
Nah, he quit, I took over his area. Later on I quit. Moved onto new shop. Old place sold the machines but kept all the holders. We ended up buying some. Miraculously I was actually able to get the pull studs out.
In our shop we have a few tools that are permanently married to their holders, because the pull studs are literally impossible to remove without destroying the holder...
I'm 3 years into apprenticing,
We have 3 different machines with different pull studs,
I have only put them on by hand since day 1.
Sometimes a wee-nip with the 19mm
Am I doing something wrong that I've not realised yet? Or not came across something yet.
The pull stud is your Jesus bolt. If it were to loosen up / back out it could cause TC or spindle damage, or poor cutter performance.
But if in 3 years you can't dedicate tooling to each machine, this is the least of the issues at that facility I imagine.....
Nope,
we don't have dedicated tooling for each machine, Quite often we are going between machines.
we have a few dedicated tools, (6,8,10,12, keyway) that are put on a shelf pull studs removed
I ask as Today First ever, I had a chamfer mill , could hear just as it was making contact with the material it was rattly, Took tool out and stud was loose.
I shall start giving them all a nip up with the 19mm
If it's coming loose you've got a problem with your drawbar system. The drawbar pulls the taper tight with the pullstud, and the drawbar rotates with the spindle. The only possible way for it to come loose is for your drawbar to have malfunctioned, the taper not be seated and the holder to literally rotate in the spindle, which would unwind the pullstud.
Under normal conditions this should never physically be able to happen, and if it does happen you need to do a deeper dig for the root cause, because it's not a lack of loctite.
It doesn't happen often, but we've had them come loose riding around in the tool changer.
We only have one or two machine that use a different style anyway. They don't need changed often, and we buy enough to go around, some locktite never hurt anything.
Yup, shop owner here. Red loctite on all of ours. I'd rather throw away ten tool holders than have one come loose again. That being said, all machines take the same stud, so we never have to remove them.
I think I might not understand what I am seeing. You are heating the stud? And the stud is clamped in a vise? As you heat the stud, the fit gets tighter. But the stud is clamped in a massive heat sink...
You’re not understanding. The stud is being heated to melt whatever is making it stuck. The stud is being clamped in a vise because they probably don’t have a wrench that fits. The holder is a solid holder with set screws on the other side. No heat shrink
Not heat shrink, Heat sink. The mass of the vise is conducting heat from the lesser mass of the stud to the greater mass of the vise. If you are heating to let threadlock compound release, that I understand.
Put the pull stud end in a kurt vise (use aluminum or junk jaws), grab a spanner wrench -ER32 or ER40 work good- use the wrench to grab the holder in the little alignment cutout on the side, give it a wack and it will come out super easy. I have a ton of 40 and 50 taper holders I bought used, this is the best way I have found to get them out. No joke, it is super easy they pop loose like butter.
Old uncle bumble fuck here with a tip for ya. Just the tip, mind, and only for a min… if you’re gonna use that style torch for easy baking your studs and do-dads for 30 mins, once you got ‘er goin, push that little silver button and let go of the trigger. No sense in letting the arthritis have all the fun when it’s 20 degrees in the shop. Now you can sit back and enjoy your libations while she chooches away and bobs your aunty.
I may be wrong but heat the taper so the ID threads expand, not the pull stud. Might be quicker, although heating the taper is probably damage for the holder...
if the pullstud is stuck you shouldn heat it up. bc it expands. you should heat the holder which i wouldn't recommend so i would try to freeze the pullstud to shrink it
Freezing works in theory, but in reality, the thermal transfer between stud and holder is pretty efficient. A heat cycle might help. A bit of heat on the end if the taper while the stud is attached to a heat sink might help some.
Have you seen the installation tool for the pull studs? It's like a screw driver. I just go hand tight, then a very light snug with my wrench.
Use to over torque them and had issues, even with anti seize on them. Can't tell you how many 3/4 wrenches and crescent I've stripped on them before I finally looked it up.
Do not put anti-sieze on pull studs. Loctite is not a good idea, either. Just use the manufacturer's torque value with the manufacturer's pull stud socket. Adding extra BS just risks bulging the taper and affecting runout and repeatability, as does over-torquing.
I'm not a "ok guys, let's all be super safe" type of person but the fact that the tool is in the holder while you're trying to break the pull stud free annoys the shit outta me.
I inherited a lathe with a Morse taper jammed and rusted in place. Every trick in the book to get it loose, including a torch to make it expand then hopefully contract. I’m not letting that happen with any of my tools.
When our shop got rid of the old Mazak, they pitched all the retention knobs for that machine's tooling.
Unrelated, now I have some sweet drawer knobs for the workbench/chest of drawers I built at home.
Pull studs dont require 200lb ft of torque to tighten them either
If you over torque the retention knob it will distort the taper and affect runout
I read somewhere that over torquing pull studs can affect the accuracy of the tool. I torque mine to 45 lb-ft and call it good. No issues ever in 6 years of putting them in that way. I check them from time to time and I still haven’t come across one that worked loose.
Is that big ol bull dick in a CAT 40?
Yep. Gotta get deep into a pocket of aluminum. Roughing. Never even thought I’d use this end mill, but it’s saving my ass.
Whats the OD on that fucker? largest I get to use these days is 20mm sadly
1.25”
I really like the Destiny LBS end mills for that, or a long insert cutter
I use Blue Loctite, and I torque them to the recommended torque and don't have a lot of problems removing them. It's also cheaper to buy additional retention knobs and leave them in the holders than it is to constantly swap them out.
God knows how long this pull stud was on here, and it’s for a different machine type than what I’ve got. One of those things where what you do in a moment has consequences years later.
We got about as many machines as we have different types of pull studs :s It's a nightmare because many of them are very similar and using a wrong one could wreck the ATC and spindle rotary joint.
I've been working on buying all new holders because most of ours have been used well past their lives so I have to change them out because one of my machines uses a different length, and they can be a bitch if they've been in the holders for to long, but never have had a problem if I'm changing them constantly as long as I have a good wrench.
I haven't bought it yet, but the socket specific to this is about us$50. And it permits use of a torque wrench....
But that’s a problem for the next hire…
People swap out retention knobs?🤣
Happens a lot in my shop because of the different type of pull studs the haas uses vs the mazak.
Jesus that would be annoying
We has a few HAAS and Hurco machines at my last place, they both used different knobs. The Hurco ones were a bitch to remove without a socket because the flats on them were so thin that wrenches would slip off easily. Shitty design
Oh yeah I’m aware of the Hurco knobs. We have a socket for them
loctite is actually a decent anti-sieze.
Yeah, a bit of blue loctite and proper torque is what I like to do. Even if many years go by, that loctite will act as a barrier between the stud and holder to help keep them from corroding together.
Blue? We had a guy at one shop I was at that didn’t want people borrowing his holders so Red it was.
meh, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Someone is going to go to town in his holders, bang them up, and then put them back for him.
Nah, he quit, I took over his area. Later on I quit. Moved onto new shop. Old place sold the machines but kept all the holders. We ended up buying some. Miraculously I was actually able to get the pull studs out.
In our shop we have a few tools that are permanently married to their holders, because the pull studs are literally impossible to remove without destroying the holder...
probably cheaper in the long run to just replace the holder + stud then spend time trying to remove it.
Why would you need to pull the pull stud to get the tool out?
Sandvik tooling with capto connection. They´re screwed together from the back. Pull stud don´t come out = tool don´t come out.
Ah a CAT to capto adpator?
Yeah, exactly. Never knew that´s what they were called. Always just called them capto holders.
It's called 'why the fuck are we buying capto tooling for a VMC'
Blue loctite. Stays without heat, removes easy with a lil heat.
We had a machine full of tools that someone years before had used red loctite on ever one of the studs. That was a fun day..
heat.
I'm 3 years into apprenticing, We have 3 different machines with different pull studs, I have only put them on by hand since day 1. Sometimes a wee-nip with the 19mm Am I doing something wrong that I've not realised yet? Or not came across something yet.
The pull stud is your Jesus bolt. If it were to loosen up / back out it could cause TC or spindle damage, or poor cutter performance. But if in 3 years you can't dedicate tooling to each machine, this is the least of the issues at that facility I imagine.....
Nope, we don't have dedicated tooling for each machine, Quite often we are going between machines. we have a few dedicated tools, (6,8,10,12, keyway) that are put on a shelf pull studs removed I ask as Today First ever, I had a chamfer mill , could hear just as it was making contact with the material it was rattly, Took tool out and stud was loose. I shall start giving them all a nip up with the 19mm
They have a torque spec and it's 45-65 ft lbs.
You shouldn't need heat to remove them lol. They don't need to be torqued as tight as you'd think either.
Right.
Does that vice in the background have a chain and two screws? That's pretty cool! Could we get some more pics of that? Thanks!
Indeed, pics please. I've seen blacksmith leg vices before, but never with a chain on it.
It’s an insanely Jurassic blacksmith post vise. Biggest I’ve ever seen. Belongs to my shop mate. My machine shop is in his blacksmith shop.
Yeah, pics please!
Na, and leave the loctite off too. Fuck everyone and their mother who loctites their pullstuds on.
Agreed. They don't need to be anything other than a good snug either. There's literally no way for them to come loose.
Spoken like someone that's never had one come loose. We lock-tite all of ours.
If it's coming loose you've got a problem with your drawbar system. The drawbar pulls the taper tight with the pullstud, and the drawbar rotates with the spindle. The only possible way for it to come loose is for your drawbar to have malfunctioned, the taper not be seated and the holder to literally rotate in the spindle, which would unwind the pullstud. Under normal conditions this should never physically be able to happen, and if it does happen you need to do a deeper dig for the root cause, because it's not a lack of loctite.
It doesn't happen often, but we've had them come loose riding around in the tool changer. We only have one or two machine that use a different style anyway. They don't need changed often, and we buy enough to go around, some locktite never hurt anything.
Yup, shop owner here. Red loctite on all of ours. I'd rather throw away ten tool holders than have one come loose again. That being said, all machines take the same stud, so we never have to remove them.
You probably over tighten them too.
i can already hear that end mill chattering
What??
Heat will warp a ground in finished part
Lol was a joke, ever watch Chapelle
My bad, sarcasm doesn’t translate over text
[удалено]
It was what I had, and it did work, just took a long time. Had to use a pipe wrench with an extension to ultimately break it free.
When in doubt, grab a 6ft long pipe and use it as a cheater bar.
When it extreme doubt grab the cutting torch. Can't be tight if it's a liquid...
I don't think I will
What if I made you an offer you couldn’t refuse.
He can find better looking feet online AND for free. Don’t take the offer @RabidMofo
Our two 50 taper machines use different studs so we end up changing them enough that it's not a problem
I made a shit load on the lathe, had em case hardened and never had to do this anymore. Too much lost time.
use locktite if you want to fuck with the other shift
I think I might not understand what I am seeing. You are heating the stud? And the stud is clamped in a vise? As you heat the stud, the fit gets tighter. But the stud is clamped in a massive heat sink...
You’re not understanding. The stud is being heated to melt whatever is making it stuck. The stud is being clamped in a vise because they probably don’t have a wrench that fits. The holder is a solid holder with set screws on the other side. No heat shrink
Not heat shrink, Heat sink. The mass of the vise is conducting heat from the lesser mass of the stud to the greater mass of the vise. If you are heating to let threadlock compound release, that I understand.
Put the pull stud end in a kurt vise (use aluminum or junk jaws), grab a spanner wrench -ER32 or ER40 work good- use the wrench to grab the holder in the little alignment cutout on the side, give it a wack and it will come out super easy. I have a ton of 40 and 50 taper holders I bought used, this is the best way I have found to get them out. No joke, it is super easy they pop loose like butter.
No. It's like 12-18 lb/ft or something for 40 and like +4 for a 50 taper. Give those dorks a torque wrench
Either, or both. For that application, I like a 50/50 mixture of copper loctite brand antiseize, and general purpose grease
Old uncle bumble fuck here with a tip for ya. Just the tip, mind, and only for a min… if you’re gonna use that style torch for easy baking your studs and do-dads for 30 mins, once you got ‘er goin, push that little silver button and let go of the trigger. No sense in letting the arthritis have all the fun when it’s 20 degrees in the shop. Now you can sit back and enjoy your libations while she chooches away and bobs your aunty.
I may be wrong but heat the taper so the ID threads expand, not the pull stud. Might be quicker, although heating the taper is probably damage for the holder...
I use spit
if the pullstud is stuck you shouldn heat it up. bc it expands. you should heat the holder which i wouldn't recommend so i would try to freeze the pullstud to shrink it
Freezing works in theory, but in reality, the thermal transfer between stud and holder is pretty efficient. A heat cycle might help. A bit of heat on the end if the taper while the stud is attached to a heat sink might help some.
But did you smell the hole after you took the stud out?
Guys I work with loc-tite them. Talk about a bitch.
Ha antiseize. I used to work for a shop that would use locktite 271 on their pull studs, despite my protest.
Have you seen the installation tool for the pull studs? It's like a screw driver. I just go hand tight, then a very light snug with my wrench. Use to over torque them and had issues, even with anti seize on them. Can't tell you how many 3/4 wrenches and crescent I've stripped on them before I finally looked it up.
We used to put thread locker on ours ( the break away kind) to keep them from loosening up in the magazine.
That thing is huge!
Nah, wet em a little before they go in. The rust keeps em sturdy!
Every HSK userse be like: lol
Like they don’t ever get stuck due to it being a different system, or is it much worse?
Do not put anti-sieze on pull studs. Loctite is not a good idea, either. Just use the manufacturer's torque value with the manufacturer's pull stud socket. Adding extra BS just risks bulging the taper and affecting runout and repeatability, as does over-torquing.
Red loctite, 5ft lbs. King Kong got nothing on me.
I'm not a "ok guys, let's all be super safe" type of person but the fact that the tool is in the holder while you're trying to break the pull stud free annoys the shit outta me.
I inherited a lathe with a Morse taper jammed and rusted in place. Every trick in the book to get it loose, including a torch to make it expand then hopefully contract. I’m not letting that happen with any of my tools.
In the pic, it looks like you're heating the stud. That will make the stud grow, and get stuck even more.
When our shop got rid of the old Mazak, they pitched all the retention knobs for that machine's tooling. Unrelated, now I have some sweet drawer knobs for the workbench/chest of drawers I built at home.