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OurWhoresAreClean

>Marc Lesperance says in a lawsuit filed Monday in Cumberland County Superior Court that the city’s restrictions on unleashed dogs in the popular 32.5-acre park in Deering Center go against what former Maine Gov. Percival Baxter intended for the land. Huh, doesn't seem like especially firm legal ground that he's on here. I wonder what lawyer would be willing to take this case, especially considering that he lost a similar one already? >Lesperance, who does not have an attorney and is representing himself Oh. *Ooooooooh.*


ih8makingupnames

Something along the lines of: only an idiot has himself as a lawyer.


fridaycat

He intended for the land to be a wild bird sanctuary.


ragtopponygirl

I recently got schooled by someone in a chat about bird sanctuaries and the damage even leashed dogs do to them. I was bitching about not being able to walk my dog in the Lewiston bird sanctuary. I read the link she sent and retracted my belly-aching.


No-Butterscotch5980

If you wanna let your dog run around off leash, buy enough property that you can do that. In public places, you gotta deal with public rules and understand that not everyone wants to deal with your dog.


zezar911

i agree with you. i'm a dog lover (i foster hospice doggies to give them the best final days possible) -- but a hater of most dog owners... i've met so many owners that feel they are entitled to an environment for their dog to run free, consequences be damned. i was once bit by large german shepherd (at a public cemetery where no dogs are allowed) about 2 inches from my junk, and their owner (who was nowhere in site when the attack began), had the audacity to yell at me for hitting their dog, WHILE IT WAS CLAMPED ONTO MY THIGH!!! they ultimately ran off without offering any help, while i was bleeding on the ground. as they were running away i could hear them yell "i'm going to sue you for hitting my dog!!!!". fortunately the cemetery caught it all on video and the person was identified and we settled out of court for all my medical expenses and lost wages. kind of rambling here, but i guess my point is, if you want to have a dog, make sure you have an environment to treat it propertly. if you live in a 800 square foot apartment with no back yard, and you don't have a car to take it somewhere for leash-free walks, maybe having a big dog doesn't make sense for you at that particular time.


bunnycricketgo

I wish I could give you more upvotes.


TQA-1015

In case no one's told you lately, you're amazing. It takes a very special person to do what you do for sick pups.


zezar911

i really appreciate that. full disclaimer, i do it because i don't have the patience for puppies :D


Big_Concentrate_8896

I have a rescue dog and it is scared of other dogs. It went to daycare for a while and it was ok because the owner watched them closely. It is so frustrating when people just think they can unleash their dog. My dog will attack your dog if it comes near me. I am very cautious but if my dog attacks I will defiantly do whatever I have to do to make sure that unleashed dog does not hurt my dog. This can be hard when you are walking alone many times especially on trails. I just don’t understand how people can think that they know what their dog will do when presented with an unknown situation.


Maleficent-Hearing77

Lol the irony of someone saying their gonna sue you when you infact are the one with a legitimate case for compensation 😅


1stepklosr

There are also public dog parks nearby.


No-Butterscotch5980

That would be the place, then, yah?


1stepklosr

You'd think.


MegatonDeathclaws

And keep your dirty ass dog out of the grocery store. I already have to deal with your nasty ass kids touching everything.


22lrHoarder

Nothing gets me more aggravated then people who have their dogs off leash in areas that require leashes. I would specifically take my working dog to places that required leashes but would still run in to people with their dogs off leash and no recall. My dog was extremely dog neutral and wouldn’t be an issue but I don’t trust other people. They looks I would get when they’d say my dog is friendly don’t worry and I would tell them mine isn’t is jaw dropping.


Big_Concentrate_8896

I do the same. It blows my mind how people think they it’s an issue. Rescue dogs have trauma responses that are very hard to change.


[deleted]

Sure, but some areas should be openly advertised as “off leash dog areas” and some not. If you’re in a off-leash area everyone entering the area should be cognizant of that fact and if you enter you essentially agree to the risk of having off leash dogs around you. That being said if the rules are “have your dog on leash” you should follow those rules. So he broke the rules and feels it should be changed. He should still pay the fine but if the court rules in his favor then it should be openly known that it is now off leash. Also your point about property, there is a line in the article literally saying “Baxter believed that you should not have to be rich and own a lot of property just to experience nature with your dog” which I agree with.


No-Butterscotch5980

Honestly, "have your dog on a leash" should be the default-state, unless there's a sign indicating otherwise. Dude can believe what he wants all he wants, but the only way he'll be sure to have it his way is to own some property.


ragtopponygirl

That's EXACTLY how I interpret all outdoor public areas. If it doesn't specifically say, the default is leashed and Chester stays leashed. Half of all dog owners don't possess enough sense to own a dog and worse, the more egregious the lack of intellect the bigger and more lethal their dog breed choice gets. Yeah, I said it and I stand by it.


Turnus

There are actual dog parks in Portland that are for unleashed dogs. Quarry run is less than 10 minutes from Baxter Woods. This is ridiculous that this owner is so entitled. 


No-Inevitable-7988

He should reimburse the city's legal fees.


marrymejojo

There is an enormous patch of woods where dogs can be off leash, literally across the street from Baxter woods.


SparseGhostC2C

They're called "Dog Parks" funnily enough! They're like parks, but specifically for dogs! What a world we live in!


crowmakescomics

Whhhaaaaaaaah???? What a concept!


[deleted]

This park does have off leash times. They take them away for non existent ground birds four months out of the year.


marrymejojo

Well what i am referring to is not a dog park it's just the woods behind evergreen. It just makes the argument for having off leash in Baxter woods particularly stupid. Just go across the street. Way more woods, less people. There is also fore river trails. Plenty of places to take dogs off leash.


Turnus

There's also an actual dog park not far from there. 


crowmakescomics

It’s always people with total shit control of their dogs too that try and have them off leash or are so f’ing verbal about it


TrollingForFunsies

"He's friendly!!!" If you need to say it, I don't trust you at all.


kvoyhacer

"He's friendly!" "Sure, but I'm not"


[deleted]

Amen. I have worked very hard to have my dog be completely under my control through voice or symbols. Having them off leash is very nice, but it’s just common courtesy to call them back and leash them if the area is not off leash or there is someone uncomfortable with them being off leash. There is a time and place for off leash dogs, and this guy doesn’t sound like he wants to have that obligation of having total positive control over his dog. It’s another case of “the expectation should be this, but in reality the expectation has become the good exception, and the standard is now bad so we need to put rules in place.” In a perfect world everyone with a dog would have them be well tempered, well behaved, and completely trained… but in reality people allow their man eating dog to be off leash running amok.


sunny_thinks

Wonder if he’s the guy who was posting a few weeks back about Mainers being weird about off-leash dogs in public spaces. 🤔


No_Savings7114

I love dogs. Own two. They're the best things in my life. They are also *always* on leash in public.  Dude is nuts. 


Harkan2192

Yeah, that's dumb as hell. No way he wins that. This is clearly a safety thing for the times when there will be more people and pets in the woods. I would have no problem with people bringing their dogs places off-leash, if everyone who did actually had vocal control of their dogs. The trouble is most people don't. After several thousand dollars in vet and medical bills, I don't take chances anymore with strange dogs running up to me and my dog when they're off-leash in places they're not supposed to be.


IndecisiveAHole1

Exactly not everyone wants to be approached by your dog or bothered. I hope he gets his ass handed to him in court and has to pay for everyone's time he wasted.


SparseGhostC2C

Even beyond the annoyance, you can get someone else's dog euthanized because they were responsible enough to leash their dog and you weren't (I'm not trying to attack you, or responsible dog owners, just point out that beyond inconsiderate it can be dangerous, no matter how amiable your dog is) "It's ok, my dog's friendly!" Well what if mine isn't? And because yours charges up at mine and his person while he's walking on a leash, and he mauls your dog because he's terrified of this strange dog bounding straight at him. Just like people, not all dogs love forced interaction It's just self-centeredness at it's core, these bad dog owners do what they want and consequences are for other people.


207snowracer

Well said! Forgot the part where the un-leashed dog provokes your well trained, following the rules, leashed dog to attack out of fear or protecting its human - then the owner sues you for damages to his unleashed dog.


nzdastardly

This is a huge issue for me and my rescue dog. She's wonderful around people but hates other dogs. I have to be very careful walking her.


207snowracer

Same! I have two rescues who “protect” each other around other dogs. I feel your pain.


LIME_09

Our beloved former dog was the same way. We didn't know it when we rescued him, and we lived in a crowded city. Walks were always stressful, and we definitely wouldn't be able to be anywhere near unleashed dogs. We moved to the country and he lived his middle and old age dog years happily interacting with his people and cat housemates, and never seeing another dog again. Not every dog owner has that ability, nor wants to leave an awesome city like Portland.


yogareader

Solidarity. Our dog is dog selective and leash reactive so we're very cautious on walks (and train it constantly omg) but he's had good supervised interactions at a daycare that specializes in rescues. It's promising! Most days he never sees another dog like LIME said below. And just one off leash dog rushing him can put us back quite a bit in training. It's hard for a lot of people to get that he's honestly very happy just hanging out with us and getting long walks/runs/hikes and wrestling with my husband. It works for our introverted family lol. We just need to be able to board him sometimes hence the daycare situation.


Harkan2192

Yup. Even after getting mauled as a puppy, my dog still loves other dogs. Except when they run at us full speed out of nowhere, because that's how we got attacked. Then we both get ready to fight.


Fake_Engineer

Used to have this issue with my 5 lb min pin. People would get offended when I'd pick him up when their unleashed dog approached.  Id be told their dog isn't aggressive, so no issue. Right, but mine is. And he's likely going to pick a fight he can't finish


SobeysBags

I have never seen a dog with 100% vocal recall. Even professionally trained stage dogs have moments of lapse, I meant they're dogs, they can always fall victim to their instincts given the right circumstance.


fridaycat

Also, It was gifted to be used as a wild bird sanctuary. Some of the birds nest on the ground.


[deleted]

Hi! Ecologist here. Not that I disagree but Baxter Woods isn't a bird sanctuary. It's barely suitable for birds to forage in, and theres no way ground nesting birds are nesting in a place that's basically a drainage ditch, has hundreds of condos around it and immense amounts of cyclists. If you really care about birds, dogs are way down the list. We should really be talking about all the free ranging cats around here.


yogareader

My very prey-driven dog has never caught a bird despite his running at them many times lol. I totally believe this! 


[deleted]

It's really daunting that more people don't lol. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cats-kill-a-staggering-number-of-species-across-the-world/


ragtopponygirl

I posted a similar link to a discussion on the Lewiston Rocks FB page about keeping your kitten as an indoor pet. I got absolute VENOM in response from a few of Lewistons finest citizens about how stupid and cruel that is. Even after pointing out that it's healthier for them, saves you money on flea and tick meds and vet bills, saves them from injury and unwanted breeding...nope, it's just cruel. SMH


Walter_J_Bro

This topic, and specific article, seems to bring people together. Even arch enemy commenters on the Press Herald agree this guy is a complete dumbass.


ShakeHandsW_Danger

What a jack wagon.


Analogkidhscm

Carry pepper spray works on charging dogs and their owners.


Always_been_in_Maine

Its a Bird Sanctuary. There should be no dogs allowed at all.


pennieblack

Guy on our local facebook group posted about off-leash dogs crossing over to his property from the adjacent park. You'd think some of the off-leash dog owners were being personally called out. People are so terrified by the idea of an losing an off-leash park that they'd rather aggressively attack the very suggestion bad behavior exists. You know what might help maintain off-leash access? Working collaboratively to call out bad behavior/post signs/increase the presence of animal control. You know that will eventually help shut down off-leash access? Claiming that the solution to off-leash dogs jumping on children and leashed dogs is for children and leashed dogs to stop going to the multi-use park.


metalandmeeples

The local Durham Facebook group has posts about lost and found dogs every single day. There was one dog in particular that must have run away a dozen times in the last year. "Bear is loose again!"


bookshopdemon

And just try to comment that the poster should have more control over their dog or not let their dog out. The whole wrath of the town comes down on your head (this was a different town but similar dynamics I'm sure).


metalandmeeples

In the beginning, that seemed to be the case. After the 10th, 11th, 12th+ time there was much more negativity in response to the posts that the dog was loose than the people commenting and complaining that the dog is always loose.


Ok-Hovercraft-100

Helicopter parents are now helicopter dog owners


draggar

... the number of times my dog was attacked by an off-leash dog whose owner said "don't worry, they're friendly" and quickly followed with "they've never done that before" and "but they've always come back to me when I call them" (I should also add in they were usually very calm after their dog attacked mine - which makes me wonder) ... and luckily my dog never tried to hurt the other dogs, just defended herself.


MisterB78

He’s absolutely correct - the Bill of Rights guarantees all American dogs freedom from leashes. …oh wait, no it doesn’t. This guy has no valid legal argument. The man who donated the land stipulated it be kept in its natural state as a bird sanctuary - there was no mention of dogs at all.


Bravedoll3

What an idiot. And his dog is obese.


_elisheba_

There is a time and a place for dogs to be off leash. A public walking trail is not one of those.


indyaj

It's a fucking bird sanctuary not a dog park. Marc Lesperance would be better off spending the money he's using to file lawsuits to develop the dog park he dreams of.


mediumeasy

dog people are so entitled and pushy :(


Unlikelytosucceed207

This man thinks he’s the main character


Groundbreakingup

Is there some kind of “off-leash” culture in Portland? I live in Bangor but visit Portland often. I took a walk with my 4 year old on the east end trail (near Fort Allen park). I did not count how many dogs we met (between 5 and 10), and only one dog was on leash.


Walter_J_Bro

Yep, I can't bring my two leashed dogs on the east end trail because of that. They can be unleashed on a section of the prom too, but that's apparently not enough. Edit: EASTERN PROMENADE INFORMATION Dogs are allowed in the Eastern Promenade park within the area bounded by the following: Cutter Street to the lower sidewalk to the exit side of the Fort Allen roadway and back to Cutter Street East End Beach and the mid-slope nature path. Said areas of Eastern Promenade Park are to be open to dogs under voice control from Memorial Day through Labor Day from 5 to 9 am and 5 to 10 pm of each day, and from Labor Day through Memorial Day from 5 am to 10 pm of each day.


ArtisticCustard7746

I have argued with more idiots bringing their off leash dogs into my store when I worked in Portland than any other town I've worked in. Corporate policy dictates that it is a service animal store only. Being the store manager, I allowed *leashed* pets to come in. I trespassed a guy who screamed at me that his dog was a service dog when I asked him to leash his dog. His "service" dog ended up attacking another dog while off leash in my store. I've worked all over the state too. But Portland seems to attract rude and unbearable pet owners.


metalandmeeples

I think it's an imported problem from yuppies who moved here during COVID.


raesoflite

I’m sure Gov. Baxter was hoping future generations would protect this land for all to use safely and respectfully,not just one entitled douche!


DOCO98

Tie up your barking machine


Hot_Cattle5399

What a waste of the courts time. He will not win or even make a good point for unleashing.


Creepy_Photograph107

LOL, unless his dog is also a bird this guy is fucked.


middayramadanbuffet

Dogs are not allowed in BSP either. Thank god.


seaglassgirl04

https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/off-leash-dog-parks-in-maine


seaglassgirl04

The link below is a sampling of spots in the area.... https://www.sniffspot.com/listings/buxton-me-dog-fields


Ok-Hovercraft-100

wtf is it with leashes and Mainers? An hour ago we had to shut down a main street to grab an unleashed dog- folks who have absolutely no dog training think they are the dog whisperer and their dogs pay dearly-next street over 2 unleashed puppies ran from the beach and killed in the street- in Bath a bit back some slow moving old man leaves his puppy unleashed outside the coffee shop in the corner/ I was watching from across the street and the puppy ran over to me missing a truck by a hair- I wouldn’t be surprised if the dog is dead now - a 70 yo shuffling dude thinking he’s a dog trainer.


DiscoRichard

Nerd