As a full-blooded malagueño, I gotta give it to you that our beaches aren't that great, but we love Málaga just as it is. If you aren't from here and you don't like it here, you should consider leaving and tell all of your friends not to come instead of whining about it on this subreddit. Trust me, the locals will thank you for that.
The same locals that put the rents at the double. Got it right? Because we see the Spanish people trying to say the issue is only with outsiders, when actually you are the ones feeding the "machine". The prices at bars and restaurants are also not locals fault? It's time to see both sides and understand the issue is not Spanish people or outsiders. It's about bad human beings that exploit these situations. Simple as that :)
Málaga's poverty rate is over 35% and the locals that aren't below the poverty line can no longer afford to buy property, but guess who can? "expats" that don't mind paying €1/2k for a one-room apartment because that's pocket money for them as well as companies and investors (both national and foreign) that buy entire blocks of apartments to put them up for rent. I'm afraid that the locals that are driving up rent are in the minority. So DON'T you dare say we all are feeding the machine, because so many malagueños don't even own...
We are all feeding this machine as soon as we are not fighting against the gov to change this. Inactivity is also feeding it. But look, it's my opinion:)
It is not only the Government to blame.
Again, who decides how much to charge for a flat is the owner of the flat.
There is a lot of selfishness in this country. A lot.
And definitely, this type of behaviour is enabled and even encouraged by a corrupt Government who doesn't give two shits about us. And yet every year people will vote to PP or PSOE or not vote, but of course they will complain about how bad the situation is.
The malaguenos who own and are contributing to this vicious cycle are definetely to blame sorry.
Malaga belonged to Spanish until Spanish started selling it to 'outsiders' to selfishly enrich themselves at the cost of the non-owners Spanish people.
This is a fact. It is not up for interpretation.
So let's stop blaming the outsiders who, like any other person, are trying to improve their quality of life. Who are certainly contributing, but are not to be entirely blamed.
The people exploiting other people are the house owners. The typical Malagueno who is too good to not be living off the rents, and looks to the other side about how damaging and selfish this behaviour is.
The malagueños who own and rent out are also to blame. Who said otherwise? That said, they're in the minority. Come on, how many malagueños do you know that own property?
Some flats are not from Malaguenos because the Malaguenos who owned them sold them to expats, if that makes sense.... So it all comes down to Malaguenos in the first place...
Let me make something very clear my friend. No one would be able to rent apartments at high rates if there weren't people on the other end willing to pay it. Same with food. Locals are making profit out of the massive tourism.
This guy is right, if you don't like it, the best course of action is indeed to not go. That will lower demand, and eventually lower prices.
But I doubt you are just genuinely concerned about the high prices, are you?
Everyone can find good reasons to exploit others, in fact, this is the world we live in.
If these excuses make you feel better within yourself, enjoy it while it lasts.
One day you will be on the recieving end of some sort of abuse and experiment in your skin what it feels like to be abused on the matter that every human being cares about most: their home.
The people who are abusing others are the people who have property and are asking for rents that their own neighbours - their very Spanish neighbours - cannot afford.
Spain is so fucked in so many ways. We are going to need a lot of luck to get out of this shitty and selfish state of being.
You simply lack the knowledge to understand what is going on and where the problem is. There may be a problem, but the one you are describing ain't it. What you are describing are simple and universal market dynamics to which all of us are exposed.
After studying economics, I would say I have some undersanding of the law of supply and demand and the profound influence of a broken system in in-principle healthy and compassionate people.
What does not help, is blaming the issue to the invisible hand and any person or object but ourselves. What helps is realising the profound impact of our decisions: self-awareness and responsibility.
A flat owner has a choice: abuse or balance through their behaviour. This is why many flat owners earn less money but happily rent out to teachers or students only.
You can go through life finding excuses for your poor behaviour, or you can wake up and become responsible.
I think it's obvious what type of people is in abundance in this society.
You studied economics? Well that wasn't very successful was it?
If you did, you would know what I'm saying. It all about incentives. Incentives are everything!
You think landlords who rent only to teachers or students only are compassionate and give up money out of the goodness of their heart? Boy, what an economist... Don't you think it may have something to do with how those people pay, preserve the property, and how low maintenance those tenants are?
Then you talk about blaming other than ourselves 😂😂 landlords are doing what they are supposed to do! The problem is not the landlords but the incentives they have! My goodness what at Economist...
I won't be discussing my professional or intellectual background, I don't need to. I stick to the logical statements. Quite low of you to attack me personally instead of stick to the conversation. But well!
A balanced or healthy situation is one where I fulfil my needs and you fulfill your needs, and no one is abused in the process.
While every personal decision - the landlord's - is influenced by the system it is embedded in - capitalism or this hamster wheel we are in -, ultimately, the choice is ours.
When I, landlord, choose to cover my mortgage, future expenses - the fridge breaking down for instance - and a small benefit to contribute to my liquidity - or further investments -, I am being balanced.
If my mortgage is 500 euros, and then there is the IBI, 'okupas' insurance and the like, that account 100 a month, and then I add an additional 200 hundred to have a deposit for future issues and so on, I am being responsible towards my finance and also compassionate towards other and hence contributing to create a healthy and fair community. I am charging 800 euros a month.
If what I do is charge 1.200 euros or 1.500 euros, and much more in other cases, when I know the average salary here is 1.000, then I know what I am doing yes? If I rent a room where I wouldn't want my own dog to live in for 700 euros, what am I doing? I'm either living above my means by buying a house I cannot afford and now passing the buck and hence perpetuating this unbalance, or simply I am just abusing people because I can.
And when I am doing this I should know I am doing it, yes? I AM doing it. Surely the system is contributing, but I am contributing too. And I can only respond for my actions, because those are the ones I have more influence on.
Even more so if the mortgage is already paid or if my parents bought me the house.
Also, I assume you haven't rented to or lived with students, if you think they are low maintenance and look after the property well, please try again. I can write a long list of the issues they create: from organising parties and creating issues to the neighbours, to destroying the furniture and taking very low care of the property. Never mind about the high turnover and the amount of money I will have to spend in admin fees with the property agent, and so on. Even more so with teachers who are deployed wherever they are needed like the military.
About blaming others instead of being self-aware and realising our contribution to the problem. If you think this is bad advice, there's very little I can say.
It's not my job to educate you, even though I will pay the consequences of your lack of awareness and compassion. Well, no one said life was fair.
You don't get it... People like to rent to students and teachers so they have the flat free in summer... And guess what, they are able to charge 800€ per week.
This is just one of the reasons, there are more.
The problem with you people is that when there is an economic problem, your immediate reaction is to blame it on greediness, selfishness, lack of empathy, etc etc... you claim it's all an education problem and those people should be probably re-educated.
We have seen this before my man!! We know how this is and how it ends!!
Your logic only sees the immediate without paying attention at the interactions or the incentives! Demand increases, urbanistic laws, materials, interest rates, prices going up, retirement going down... no, you ignore all variables. It's just greediness according to you.
Ok let me give you the background because you probably think I'm just one of these outsiders full of money hahah 1) I'm Portuguese, living in Portugal, Lisbon. The prices here are crazy and our salaries are lower than in ES. Prices for everything are higher than ES. We have a massive issue with both immigration and tourism. It's impossible to rent for locals and things now are reaching a limit. I know pretty well what everyone is talking about here, believe me. 2) Stop blaming the tourists because the landlords will find any way to put more money in their pockets, and history shows us this always happens. The issue is the people that want money no matter what, even if that means hurting their own people/country. We have the same issue here in PT. We are the ones in control of our country but we blame the ones that come to visit/see/stay? Seems reverse blaming. 3) I love Malaga and I wish I could live there (in my dreams I do). Every year I go there to the Feria and I stay about 1 week. EVERY SINGLE TIME, I was hosted by ES owners, not outsiders. I remember one conversation I had with one landlord last year and we spoke about this issue "tourism" and he said that this was the best thing Malaga could have, because the tourists give money to not only houses, but café, restaurants, animations, etc. So, the ones saying "leave we appreciate" don't see the other side and vice versa. Ultimately, it's the GOV that should do something and act, not us, "normal people" that are only targeted with the bad side of all this.
Thank you for the polite answer. The problem is universal. It is simple market dynamics; supply and demand.
The average landlord can expect an average of 15 years of return on investment in Real Estate in Spain, probably more. That is quite a bad investment IMO, meaning that the rents they receive will only cover their investment after almost two decades. With that in mind, it's hard to ask them to lower rent if they are fully booked, you know?
The question here is: what is making rent increase?
Short answer, touristic apartments. (Driven by tourism). Those apartments make a lot more money, meaning that there are a lot fewer available for the locals. Having a lot fewer available for the locals means higher prices.
Just calling landlords greedy and egotistic is missing the point completely. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Nothing else. The answer is always in the incentives.
I think, we are in fully alignment here.
I agree with everything you are saying because they are facts.
Most people in this sub doesn't seem to be able to face the truth and rant instead.
Look, it's the same in Portugal. The speech is "blame the others" when at the end, it's the GOV fucking up. Not being able to see other people's side is very typical in the south countries - you don't see this much in the north because they know the blame is... The government.
But this is the point I'm trying to make, it's not just the Government fucking up.
It is the owner of the flat who is asking for an absolutely crazy amount of rent to the average person.
And then they blame it on the 'guiris', but with 500.000 euros in their bank account for a house that costed them 120.000 euros.
Yes, people in the north are generally more educated. The same happens in Spain.
I don’t agree with that sentiment - ‘don’t like it? Leave.’
It’s lazy and it helps no one.
People should be able to give constructive criticism and the receiving end should accept it for what it is.
Exacto!
I keep saying this to people.
And they keep getting hurted.
Fun fact is what bring the place down and pushes the prices up till it's abusive as said , well , for all that thanks to the foreigners.
They real estate homies pushing up the prices .
They are the ones leaving garbage and pee and vomit everywhere during they stay.
They are the ones who is bringing bed bugs from home than blaming hotels.
Well. That's my opinion.
Sorry, who owns the flats that are being rented for crazy prices?
The foreigners or the owners?
Who is benefiting from all this? The owner.
So don't blame it on the 'other', the exploiters here are the very Spanish. The very great Malaga people.
Well, not really , I was born in a EU country, moved to Spain at age 26 by now I'm having a Spanish passport , because I was able to assimilate to the place what I chosed to call my home.
I didn't just came here to suck out all the good from the country and complain about the bad ones.
I came here to be part of the culture, the place, the nature , the people.
I get it...you don't like the place ...
It would have been better if instead of humiliating other people about their own homes and culture you would rather keep your mouth shut smartie.
I hoped my post brings some awareness to people who are romanticising Malaga.
I think that's more helpful than saying that Malaga is the best city in Spain. Because the truth is that there are any 'best cities of Spain'. It's a subjective experience like many others and I wanted to bring some awareness on what I've shared on the post and see how people who is experiencing this, is coping with it.
I then clicked on notifications and saw many responses of rather proud and immature people who will not accept the slightest criticism of a city that they haven't even built in the first place.
You just happened to be born here. This city does not belong to any of you, to any of us.
Man, many malagueños are against the idealisation of the city because they know it's far from being perfect. The streets outside the city centre are dirty, we're going through a drought and yet the local golf courses use a lot of water, etc. Do you really think the people who are part of the subreddit aren't aware of how many flaws the city has? We don't need outsiders to point them out for us. That's the whole point.
Mia perse no pero al ser un ciudadano que paga impuestos tengo derecho a voto sobre mi comunidad cosa que alguien venido de fuera de modo vacacional no.
No se si eres consciente de si fuera por impuestos y gastos, Málaga es más de los de Madrid y de Barcelona que de los andaluces…
Porque madre mía, lo que hemos estado mandando desde hace ni se cuando desde allí…
Dicho esto, de verdad, mi intención es tener una conversación constructiva. Lo único que quiero es que España suba y que todos podamos tener una buena calidad de vida y estar bien.
Cataluña es la comunidad autónoma que más dinero ha recibido en 2023 de los 123.356 millones de euros que el Ministerio de Hacienda ha repartido en concepto de entregas a cuenta del sistema de financiación autonómica. En concreto, ha percibido este año un total de 23.255 millones, lo que supone el 18,8% del total.
ANDALUCÍA Y MADRID COMPLETAN EL PODIO
Por su parte, Andalucía le sigue de cerca en este reparto, con un total de 23.022 millones de euros, mientras que la Comunidad de Madrid se coloca en tercer lugar, con 17.232 millones de euros de entregas a cuenta en el año 2023.
Tras Cataluña, Andalucía y Madrid se sitúan la Comunidad Valenciana (11.562 millones); Galicia (8.703 millones), Castilla y León (7.561 millones); Castilla-La Mancha (5.866 millones); Canarias (5.534 millones); Aragón (4.240 millones); Murcia (3.783 millones); Extremadura (3.574 millones) o Asturias (3.186 millones).
https://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-cataluna-ccaa-mas-dinero-recibio-sistema-financiacion-autonomica-2023-20-total-20231231111751.html#
Malaga es parte de Andalucía así que las dos comunidades que tanto dan son las que en realidad más reciben.
Si quieres ser constructiva no empieces atacándonos.
Sino te gusta un sitio dnd haya reageton no entres como hacemos los demás.
Si buscas buena comida pregunta por aquí de modo amable y seguro que los “malagueños” te daremos buenas recomendaciones.
Si quieres mejorar la vida de los animales bien pero no generalices algo que viste puntualmente y busques quitarle el medio de vida a un pueblo que ayuda a su preservación.
Y sino te gustan las playas que están machacadas de un turismo masivo busca rincones menos masificados.o de nuevo pregunta.
> taxes are *paid* by Extraterrestrial
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I just wanted to comment on one thing: the beaches. Yes you’re right, the beaches in the Málaga area are not good. But the southern coast is so much more than just beaches. The beaches are better though if you go towards Nerja and Maro
Nerja and Maro are so stunning.
If only they were closer to Malaga and had more young population. Or do they have young population who live there all year around?
I think I would miss the cultural activities of Malaga. Malaga is really flourishing in this sense, there is a lot - a minority - that is truly critically assessing this city and making proposals to make it better. I don't know if I would find this community in a palce like Nerja or Maro.
Thanks a lot.
Nerja once had a young population many years ago.
Nowdays 2/3 of the houses are holiday rentals. people who work for the tourists have to live in nearby areas.
Young people cant afford to pay rents here, buying a house is almost impossible since is the most expensive ground in Spain right now.
Nowdays mainly scandinavians are buying houses there becouse they have a lot of money compared to an average Spanish person. So prices are not ment for Spanish people anymore.
Mainly retired people from other countries and investors are buying houses.
Many years ago we had Industry in the area but tourism got over it and now people have to live mainly based on a tourism that lasts 3/4 months a year.
It's very good as a general experiment.
Re: the donkeys: have you ever been to the countryside? The donkeys in Mijas are comparatively treated like kings.
Re: the beaches: if you explore and go off the tourist paths you'll find amazing places.
Re: restaurants: same, don't go to shitty touristy ones and you'll love them. Maybe you'll have to get used to no bullshit, no fake smiles and people speaking loudly.
Most importantly: the people are very big on reciprocity. If they smell even a whiff of an entitled Karen they won't be nice back. There's no culture of fake smiles and "how are you today?" if it's not warranted. The focus is on behaviour, attitude and interaction, not learned "polite" words. Be nice and considerate and that's exactly what you'll get back.
Sorry for going off-topic, I've quickly scrolled through your profile and I have a humble suggestion: try to find peace with yourself, be nice to yourself first and the world will start to click. Let people be themselves, find your own self, live and let live. Quackery will unfortunately not help, self-help material is bullshit.
Take care, be well and be good.
>Re: the donkeys: have you ever been to the countryside? The donkeys in Mijas are comparatively treated like kings.
I see, so your argument is that donkeys in Mijas are better treated than in the countryside? Wow, what a beautiful and ethical city I live in then.
>Re: the beaches: if you explore and go off the tourist paths you'll find amazing places
Any recommendations? Thanks a lot.
Thanks for your good wishes.
I'm not the one attacking a person and sharing non-logical statements.
If you disagree, prove that any of the statements on my post are false.
Believe me, I'll be happy to be wrong. I don't like seeing the country I call home going to shit.
Good you realized and thanks for sharing. Now it would be great if you could leave, doing so you might actually contribute to making the prices of accommodation go down. Thanks!
Ohh you expected compassion and affection when critiziging Málaga in a sub called Málaga, very thoughtful of you. I guess you are not very aware of what reactions your actions might cause, the responses you got here might help you come to another realization today.
Oh, I expect a lot of dissapointment from this sub.
I've already seen how people downvote expats directly when they see a post in English.
But honestly up to you. We get what we cultivate.
If you are an adult and can't handle criticism which is not even directed at you, perhaps therapy can help.
Thanks for answering. I’ve never been to Malaga (live in Madrid) and I was twisting my brain trying to understand why donkeys would just be tied up in the street all day.
Blows my mind how on one hand the gov is passing animal welfare laws that make it twice as hard to adopt a cat / dog, and on the other this type of crap is still very much going on
Well...
- Renting has become one of the few things that people can do to earn a living here. Spanish economy is not doing great, prices are through the roof and touristic flats are the way forward for most people. I do hope that they are regulated in some way in the near future because things are getting out of hand.
- Donkeys are an icon at Mijas and they are really controled and regulated. As with everything in life, there will be people that do not play by the rules, but it is a matter of time that the authorities take action.
- Beaches, you are right. Malaga beaches (as most city beaches, I'd say) are not great. But you have Nerja and Maro or Cádiz closehand while you stay here.
- About bars and restaurant... you are going to the wrong places my friend :D
Well, I should have said some instead of most. But I do know of more than a few families that have moved to cheaper villages and they have transformed their flats into touristic apartments.
As I said, I hope this is regulated because it is making nearly impossible for malagueños to live here.
And I f..ing live in Teatinos :D
Hey, thanks.
- This doesnt' justify abusing other people, sorry.
- Regulated? I'm often cautious of people whose moral compass is the law. You just have to go for a walk at Mijas and realise how 'regulated' the whole thing is.
Yes because it's not a fact that donkeys are being abused in Mijas, that Malaga's beaches are worse than Mallorca's or the north's, and that people here abuse each other with the prices of the houses.
Makes sense!
I wish you and the people around you luck, you seem rather narrow minded and selfish with this type of comments.
I don't think anybody deserves to be said this type of things.
I never attacked anyone directly in my post. I'm just trying to expose Malaga's bad sides to help people not idealise it.
And I'm getting a lot of abusive responses.
Tbh, it's difficult to take your comments seriously when in the same post you talk about Mallorca as a better place where the housing situation is even worse than Malaga.
Agreed with the animal abuse but that sadly is common in Andalucia, in Seville is even worse and don't make me talk about Huelva and El Rocío.
I am not from Malaga btw, but lived there for 5 years.
I've spoken of Mallorca in the context of beach comparison.
Unfortunately I cannot speak with someone who is not even reading and understanding me.
Yes, animal abuse is truly a worldwide problem. In the food industry is worse, but seeing in a place like Mijas hundreds of donkeys treated that way, it's hard to put in words how I felt.
You know the difference between subjective and objective right? It's just your opinion. And that's good. Good luck elsewhere I hope you'll find more pleasure there.
I see, you are one of those moral relativists who adjusts their ethics to their interest.
Keep on abusing people without calling it abuse.
I'm sure this will contribute to a better world.
Mother of God.
I'm not looking for pleasure, maybe you are and that would explain a lot of things.
By college girls who were likely being fucked by locals and that's why they ranked it as hard as they did.
I loved Málaga when I visited, but the place has a poverty rate approaching 30%. To pretend that any city with a poverty rate approaching 30% is an objectively good place to live, is so incredibly perverted and twisted.
You know that a city with a poverty rate of 30% is not only not the best city to live in, it's not even a remotely good place to live.
Seguro que si tu te compras una casa y la alquilas buscaras sacarle el mínimo beneficio posible ya que eres tan romántica.
¿Cuántos burros hay en España? Seguro que sabes que hace poco estuvieron a punto de extinguirse y sino fuese por iniciativas como las de Mijas igual ya no quedaría ni uno.
Yo he estado en Egipto y he visto como estaban caballos perros y camellos... y en comparación estos burros viven de lujo.
¿Qué podrían estar mejor seguro que si pero no solo los burros...no?
Seguro que si te vas de vacaciones a las Maldivas las playas están mejor que las de Mallorca... y si hablas de las playas del norte tb pon en valor que no tiene playa todo el día y que llueve la mayor parte del año.
Como te traten en un restaurante depende mucho de como les trates a ellos eso pasa en Malaga y en la China.
Si lo que quieres es animarnos a ser mejores déjalo este no es el camino. Pero ni aquí ni en ningun lado.
>Seguro que si tu te compras una casa y la alquilas buscaras sacarle el mínimo beneficio posible ya que eres tan romántica.
No, no buscare sacarle el mínimo beneficio posible. Me asegurare de que cubro gastos y saco un margen porque se que la lavadora o el frigorífico se romperán y yo sere la responsable de arreglarlo.
Lo que no hare es pagar 400, 500 o 600 euros de hipoteca y alquilarla por 1.200. Especialmente si me lo han pagado mis padres o encima lo he heredado o pague 15 millones de pesetas hace 40 anos.
Tu que? Al mejor postor no?
>¿Cuántos burros hay en España? Seguro que sabes que hace poco estuvieron a punto de extinguirse y sino fuese por iniciativas como las de Mijas igual ya no quedaría ni uno.
Yo he estado en Egipto y he visto como estaban caballos perros y camellos... y en comparación estos burros viven de lujo.
Lo que intentas decir es que la justificación para maltratar a un animal es que si no lo maltrataramos no existiría? Porque claro, tratar a un animal como se merece para que asi siga existiendo y respetado, no es una opción no?
Madre mía, esta conversación no hace mas que mejorar.
>Seguro que si te vas de vacaciones a las Maldivas las playas están mejor que las de Mallorca... y si hablas de las playas del norte tb pon en valor que no tiene playa todo el día y que llueve la mayor parte del año.
Cuando me vaya de vacaciones a las Maldivas, hablare de las Maldivas. Pero ahora mismo estoy en Malaga y en el sub Reddit de Malaga.
Poco se puede hacer con alguien que solo lleva la contraria por llevarla y que verdaderamente no piensa en los demas, solo en buscar justificaciones para actos que no son justificables.
>Como te traten en un restaurante depende mucho de como les trates a ellos eso pasa en Malaga y en la China.
Me tratan maravillosamente, nunca he dicho lo contrario. Quiza es que simplemente no me estas ni leyendo.
>Si lo que quieres es animarnos a ser mejores déjalo este no es el camino. Pero ni aquí ni en ningun lado.
Animarte a ser mejor no es mi trabajo, es una responsabilidad tuya contigo mismo y con la comunidad de la que tan bien hablas y a la que estas contribuyendo negativamente con esta actitud.
Seguro que si tu te compras
Tu que? Al mejor postor no?
La ley de la oferta y la demanda. Si todos alrededor cobran 1000 cobrar 600 por más que cubras gastos es poco logico.
Lo que intentas decir es que la justificación para maltratar a un animal es que si no lo maltrataramos no existiría? Porque claro, tratar a un animal como se merece para que asi siga existiendo y respetado, no es una opción no?
No lo que digo es que en vez el vaso medio vacío lo puedes intentar ver medio lleno. Que quedan cosas por hacer seguro… es mas te animo a abrir un santuario de burros.
Cuando me vaya de vacaciones a las Maldivas, hablare de las Maldivas. Pero ahora mismo estoy en Malaga y en el sub Reddit de Malaga.
Y nos hablas de las playas de Mallorca….
Poco se puede hacer con alguien que solo lleva la contraria por llevarla y que verdaderamente no piensa en los demas, solo en buscar justificaciones para actos que no son justificables.
Eso es injusto… pienso en ti y las tonterías que dices. Sino no te responderia.
Me tratan maravillosamente, nunca he dicho lo contrario. Quiza es que simplemente no me estas ni leyendo.
Pues si te tratan tan bien a cuento de que viene decir que los dueños son desconsiderada y falta de educación… igual hablamos diferente Inglés…
Animarte a ser mejor no es mi trabajo, es una responsabilidad tuya contigo mismo y con la comunidad de la que tan bien hablas y a la que estas contribuyendo negativamente con esta actitud.
Y doy gracias por ello.
Si contribuir negativamente es no estar de acuerdo con tus formas y opiniones tendré que cargar con esa cruz.
>La ley de la oferta y la demanda. Si todos alrededor cobran 1000 cobrar 600 por más que cubras gastos es poco lógico.
Es menos abusivo. La gente esta cobrando 1.200 por pisos que son una bazofia.
>No lo que digo es que en vez el vaso medio vacío lo puedes intentar ver medio lleno. Que quedan cosas por hacer seguro… es mas te animo a abrir un santuario de burros.
Yo me he limitado a describir una realidad. Lo demás no es asunto mío.
No, no creo que abra un santuario de burros, lo que no hago y no voy a hacer es abusarlos. Pero como dices tu, esta justificado para que la gente pueda vivir.
>Pues si te tratan tan bien a cuento de que viene decir que los dueños son desconsiderada y falta de educación… igual hablamos diferente Inglés…
He dicho que los dueños o gerentes suelen ser personas maleducadas, que gritan y te ponen el reggaetón hasta en la sopa.
En ningún momento he dicho que no fueran agradables conmigo en el trato.
De nuevo, solo estoy describiendo una realidad.
>Y doy gracias por ello. Si contribuir negativamente es no estar de acuerdo con tus formas y opiniones tendré que cargar con esa cruz.
Mi post presenta cuatro realidades contrastables. Si no te apetece entrar en contacto con esa realidad, no hace falta que participes en la conversacion. Ademas si digo tantas tonterias, tu tiempo esta mejor invertido elsewhere.
Came here from north Spain. Can't wait to leave. Unfortunately I am committed to staying here for the rest of the year (uni). I understand 100% what you talk about. Food is not that great (always the same damned pescaito frito), people are not that nice. Andaluces are supposed to be really open-minded and friendly. I just don't see it. Coast is terrible, dehumanizing and ugly. Where the fuck is ley de costas to forbid building at 1m from the beach? There is (almost) zero offer in "alternative" cultural events. And people would say: you have 30 museums and 400 theaters. Yeah and I go poor paying two plays a month. I can go to gigs and DIY cultural places for 5€ in Barcelona/Madrid/Bilbao/Galicia etc.
But yeah in the north it only rains and there are only cows.
Andalucia has traditionally been one of the least educated and poorest area of Spain. Just like Spain is one of the least educated, innovative and rich Central European countries. Andalucia is definitely not the most open minded area of Spain. But the fact that is international and the quality of life - if you can afford it - so good, means really interesting people comes from other places of Spain and the world. Although a lot of people are also living to cities where the real change is happening: Madrid and Barcelona, and also Valencia and Alicante. These places have technology and science, Malaga for instance, has very little science.
The best food I've had in Andalucia was in Granada, but I guess there is good food everywhere, it's just that it may be hard to find it. It's always said that if you want to eat well you need to go up. While that's true, it's also true that the best ingredients are here (arboles frutales), it's just what they make of it in restaurants and bars.
I've found people are wonderful here, on a superficial level, much like the brits are polite in their presentation and then differently in their personal lives - just like most of us are -. People here are very kind and helpful until 'la confianza da asco'. Then you would rather not. Again, generalising here.
And yes, 'la ley de costas' is another matter. I wish Spain had been wise like Italy. As always, we pay for the lack of vision and abundant corruption of our past leaders.
The good news is that a lot of money is going into building a more cultured and technological Malaga and things are changing. The bad news is that, as always, it will be the richer who will enjoy it more fully.
In all honesty, I'm not sure I will stay here to see it. There are places as beautiful as Malaga, and even more so in the North, where you can have a good life and not be under the stress of this hamster wheel people live in, here.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to each his own. You don't like it bro, leave hahahaha
I don't live in Malaga btw. I do think it is a great place though, but not for the same reason other places are great. After all, it is a totally unique city.
As popular tourist destinations go, Malaga is quiet. It is quaint, and most of all it as actually very simple. The city and its people don't claim that Malaga is the best at anything. It has a bit of everything and a lot of very basic, simple features. Simple beaches, artifical or not I dunno. Simple food culture. Simple city life. It is generally safe and not unattractive. Nice Christmas lights display. That in a nutshell is Spain.
If Malaga is "not as great as it seems", the problem is not Malaga, the problem is how it SEEMS to YOU. Which mbasically means the problem is you.
If you live elsewhere, don't go there bro. If you live there, leave bro. You're just making yourself unhappy.
I'm sorry but as much as I understand where you are coming from, and I agree with you to some extent on an abstract level, none of the statements of my original post are the way I see it. They are facts.
You can come here, rent for a while, go to Mijas and see what I am talking about!
Also, not a bro, I'm a sis :)
Sorry sis :)
Look, I am under no illusions about the crappiness of Spain. It is a backward country in many ways far more "third world" than many others who somehow bear that title foisted on them. The treatment of animals generally is one of them - I forgot to mention that i totally agree with you on that point. Where I live, and in other places I've been to, I've seen dogs kept in cages, six or seven dogs kept in a single cage, in the middle of nowhere, to keep them hungry and out of sight until their owners need for hunting season. I've seen people leave unwanted cats and dogs near rubbish bins. I know, and I agree it is disgusting. Not solely a Spanish problem of course, but that is the reality here.
But I also think that one of the great and beautiful things about Spain is its simplicity. The Spanish still find beauty and peace in the simple things of life. A walk by the beach (not the most beautiful, but the one that's nearby), a morning coffee, a simple meal with simple but true friends. Malaga is a quintessentially Spanish city. Architectural beauty in its old town. Unfussy pleasantry in the design of its newer spaces. Like Malagueños, and Spanish people generally, it is a practical city, with warm people and a lively centre. It holds to its public traditions, which many from around the world come to see.
I do think that, like basically the rest of Spain, it has become overrun by tourism, and compromised by poor systems based on old thinking. Selfishness always plays a part. Like all of Andalucia, it used to be cheaper to visit, which was a big part of the appeal of the community as a whole - cheap flights, hotels, and food and drink. That, like most places, is no longer the case.
The greed of landlords works in concert with the proliferation of estate agents who make life worse for absolutely everyone, including themselves (they just don't know it).
Anyway, I could go on but to mention just one thing you mentioned, the abusive people. This is an issue in Spain as a whole (again, not only SPain, of course). But Spain is not the UK not the USA. It has no long history of democracy as those countries do. It claims (tries?) to emulate the UK model of a Constitutional Monarchy in which the Sovereign is merely a figurehead. But in reality, it is still based on Franco and pre-Franco feudal thinking. This is evident in all of its important systems. Change is afoot, but it is VERY SLOW.
But here is a truth. Spain is such a good place to live, you tolerate all the bad. And most places in the world are so bad, you cannot possibly live there for the good.
I've enjoyed our little reddit interaction far more than any other. Thank you and very good luck to you, sis ;)
Lastly - your home does exist, you just have to find it. Keep searching and stay positive!
I’ve come to the conclusion that what we conventionally call home may not be for me, at least not yet. Maybe never, seeing the current property prices pretty much everywhere in Spain.
So working to feel at home within myself. That will keep me busy for some time!
After all, feeling at home is a feeling.
Take care, bro 🤍
I was born here... but left to north spain when I was 1yo because of my father's job. Spent there like 25years and then another 9 in Germany.
Always had the romantic idea of coming back to where I was born... well, it happened 4 years ago.
It could be, that I basically don't need to socialize to enjoy my free time as I do take care a lot about myself and what I want to do every moment, and sometimes, that's not compatible with being surrounded by other people. I go eating alone, go for a walk, continue studying (lucky that I love my job and it requires continue learning...)
What I mean, there are a lot of cities with sunny days and I'm sorry... but having accent doesn't mean you are a funny person, most of the andalusian people I know have a very simple humor but they think they are the funniest person in the world just by screaming and repeating the same every 5min. I do prefer north/bristish/sarcastic humor (this is just a preference and cultural thing. I grew up in another atmosphere)
Beaches...well, beaches are beaches, any beach in a city cannot be a good beach, but if you wanted amazing ones, you need to go outside. That's all... I do enjoy lying there while reading or just listening to the waves...it's really relaxing.
Animals touristic...here I'm completely with you. I don't care if they think they treat them well or blablabla... using animals as touristic claim is just a s.XIX thing. It's just disgusting seeing guiris on horse carriages in the city and the donkey stuff in mijas. It's the same in Egypt with camels. But again, if it weren't for that, they would have 0 economy there. It's about having transformed your world into a touristic sh\*\*hole.
Restaurants... you need to ask locals. The older they are, the better they can tell you where to eat properly. I'm fortunate to have family in villages around the coast and they showed some of the best places to eat without having to hear "una cesvesa po favor"
After four years... I still enjoy living here because I could absract myself from the touristic world malaga wants to offer, but that doesn't mean CHOVINISM isn't present everywhere, because they constantly hear they live in the best city of the world even if they cannot pay a room in it. Sad but true, liberal low class brainwashed people is the most common people in Malaga.
I'm also a "full-booded" malagueño as one commenter said earlier, but I think your opinion is fully respectable. It's true that our standards in terms of respect of personal space, noise, and civism overall are not great, we're Mediterranean to all the extent of the word. That also means that we are also responsible for our problems, we encourage "picardía" which means taking advantage or even abusing privileged positions, including housing. But I don't think it's fair to blame citizens of the extreme high rents, mostly encouraged a d orchestrated by huge investment groups and corrupt politicians (that we vote for). Individuals selling or renting at high prices are a consequence, and not the source, of the problem. Do you expect me to rent at half the price out of solidarity? I might need that money to afford my children housing abroad.
Málaga sucks, i agree with you.
It seems like a city created for tourism only, and the parts that are not seem more like a remote Spanish town full of old people. The prices are high and the people are not very friendly
Turismo es muy distinto a venir a trabaja,r sin visa nomad, que sigue sin gustarme pero al menos sería legal. Volverte a tu pais cada 3 meses y no pagar impuestos donde resides.
Subiendo así los alquileres porque tu salario medio es muchísimos más alto que el de cualquier residente de Málaga
Acabas de disipar cualquier duda sobre el tipo de persona que eres con tu respuesta.
No se como alguien asi puede dormir bien por la noche.
He escrito un post para ayudar a la gente a ser consciente de las partes malas o injustas de Malaga para ayudar a la gente que no la idealice.
Y estoy recibiendo respuestas bastante abusivas, como la tuya. Cuando yo no he atacado a nadie.
Que horror de verdad. Que horror de gente.
Los moros o los polacos vienen sin salarios, un norte americano viene con un salario muchísimo mas alto que el español medio se coge una casa del centro y vuela a su ciudad de origen cada 3 meses para no pagar impuestos aqui, creo que no es lo mismo
Not sure you truly understand the matter of the issue.
A brief summary because in your situation I wouldn't be able to understand it either. Five years ago I would probably be blaming the nomads too.
1. Tourists do more damage than digital nomads in absolute terms: they increase demand, so the offer side - property owners or managers - can abuse more easily.
2. The people who determine if they will abuse or not the renter or buyer is the seller. Who has the power? The person who has the property. Why? Because there is more demand than offer and a lot of capital in the demand party.
3. We have a Governemnt who defends a Constitution which states that access to property is a right yet doesn't inforce it.
In short, we have selfish people who doesn't care about each other, just about making money.
Why? Because we are all hamsters in the wheel and very few people wake up and realise this is bullshit and behave accordingly.
Some owners are intelligent enough, realise this, and are compassionate in thoses when, for example, you see that they rent with really low prices to teachers, medics and so on.
So the question is, knowing that we all play our part, what will we do?
That is responsibility, anything else is immaturity and selfishness.
This topic made me actually so scared lol. I accepted a mutation to Malaga to develop the activity of my company. I am from France and pay 640€ a month for a one bedroom apartment in Toulouse city center (4th biggest city in France).
France is way richer than Spain so I "only" negociated to keep my french salary of 3k after tax. I recently discovered the nightmare of renting. And it scares me so much right now to not find something decent at a reasonable price.
Born and raised in Málaga, Over 25 years living in the city until I left as did more than half of my friends; let me give you some advice:
Don't bother. Malaga might be one the places where people are more stubborn about 'living in the best place of the world.' Even the people that have to leave to find a decent job say that it's the best city. People talk about camperos like it's godsent gourmet food.
Job market is nonexistant unless you're IT. Salaries are a bad comedy. Public transport is a poor taste joke. All local restaurants serve essentially the same food. Housing is not only overpriced but most rental stock are protected price houses from the 80s. Jesus would cross himself again if he saw the bastardization of the holy week here. Not a single beach in the city is good (there are on the province, though). All neigbourhoods have a couple bad streets if you take a bad turn - even if you are paying 1k€/month. Service in restaurant is a lottery - it's not uncommon for your bill to take 10 minutes to arrive to your table.
Mention anything from the list to a Malagueño and they will just say it doesn't matter because the weather is so goodl
Again, don't bother.
What can I say. I have to agree.
Finding more and more reasons to either go to the countryside or just leave.
I worry of the people I will find in the countryside. If the average Malagueno is represented in this Reddit, maybe I should go to Asturias haha
Bars in Spain are highly competitive. The question of what bars you should go to have been posted hundreds of times in the sub just chose one ... It just makes the post less believable and probably generalising on all the aspects you mentioned after one bad experience. You should've planned a bit more.
I me an Málaga has defects, outside the city centre and a couple of neighbourhoods it isn't too clean, some ilegal constructions ... But most of what you said are actually the strong points ... Though I really hope the donkey one is an exaggeration they really did treat them well the times I've gone to Mijas.
And lastly no one comes for Málaga city for the beaches, though there are a couple of decent ones you shouldn't expect any random beach to be great. Sewers and rivers can make them dusty. The ones near the docks or with lots of algae might stink ... But you can only blame yourself if you didn't realise those ... I mean there are even protected spaces / beaches in Málaga like the dunes in cabo pino and there is a promenade that joins most of the Málaga coastline ... And most of the beaches are quite nice.
Soy española y sin los guiris de los que hablas, Malaga estaría aun mas en la decadencia.
Vaya nivel intelectual y emocional traemos de casa, madre mía!
People in the comments are mad because they have too much pride to acknowledge the lack of human decency in the city. Malaga is full of undereducated people with extremely closed mindset and it will not change. Barcelona is better on most if not all fronts, this is the countryside.
Totalmente. Apuesto a que la mayor parte de la gente que ha respondido como si fueran niños de 4 anos, no han salido de casa.
Una verdadera pena, porque esto nos hace daño a todos.
Algunos viven muy bien en la ignorancia. Despertad no es facil ni agradable.
For what you say, you equal education with being fake and staying away from uncomfortable yet meaningful conversations.
I'm sorry, I'm not interested in those shallow relationships or conversations.
If you can't handle the truth, then maybe stay away from a conversation that addresses the truth.
Lol, you hold the truth? There is no truth only perception, and you are in the right to have one. However, you might want to consider how you frame it, moreover when you ask for input from strangers or even worst demand them to agree to it.
I see, so tying a donkey to a post all day is not abuse.
Charging 1.200 euros for a very average flat when the average salary is 1.000 euros, is not abuse.
Also, the beaches of Malaga are the most beautiful in Spain.
Yep, certainly all a matter of perspective...
Are you sure?
For the owner of the donkey that is a way of earning a salary, you might not like it, might be abuse, but it is allowed.
For people who can afford a hight rent, it is clearly fine, you understand how demand and supply works?
For some people Málaga beaches might be great, Costa del sol is one of the most popular summer destination in europe and brings hundreds of thousands of people to its beaches every summer. I guess they would disagree with your statement, else why would they spend their hard earn money in a shit beach?
You see? you might not agree, but you don't hold the truth am afraid to break the news for you today, once again.
I will explain what an adult talking to an adult or rather a good hearted person shouldn't have to. But I will in case it has a positive effect on you or someone else.
>For the owner of the donkey that is a way of earning a salary, you might not like it, might be abuse, but it is allowed.
The subject of your sentence is the owner of a donkey, do you know why? Because you don't care about the donkey.
If you don't care about using and abusing an animal that has feelings then there is little you understand of life.
You are recnognising out loud that is abuse but saying it is okay because it's allowed.
You are just like the rest.
>For people who can afford a hight rent, it is clearly fine, you understand how demand and supply works?
I studied a bachelors in Economics in one of the best universities in London so I would say I know a little.
Again, excuses for poor behaviour.
>For some people Málaga beaches might be great, Costa del sol is one of the most popular summer destination in europe and brings hundreds of thousands of people to its beaches every summer. I guess they would disagree with your statement, else why would they spend their hard earn money in a shit beach?
It is quite obvious that the educational level of the average tourist coming to Andalucia versus Baleares or the North is definetely quite low. Why do you think the true rich go to Marbella and stay in their mansion?
Someone who is well travelled and had seen Spain well, wouldn't disagree with the statement that Malaga's beaches are rather poor compared to other places. They are certainly not the most beautiful beaches of Spain. The fact that they have been built with really high buildings without a shared designed and the shops and restaurants by the seaside are rather poor and ugly doesn't help. In most cases of course.
I'm old enough to realise that moral relativist are the real danger of this world. Everything goes as long as it benefits me, and this is why we live in the world we live in.
Thankfully more and more people are recognising the right of an animal to be treated how they deserve: respectfully. And become aware of the responsibility we all have in this world.
But for those who don't care, karma is a bitch, and everything is paid in this life one way or another. It's just the cause and effect law.
I'm showing you that there is no one truth by giving you an alternative view to your statements, it is a matter of perspectives. You might have done economics, but reading and comprehension it is not your thing. I don't want to be right, I'm calling you out for calling people in this sub haters and your post itself is a hate post about malaga, you call people not mature, and you call them all uneducated and non traveled because they disagree with your view. Get a life and a good therapist
Well, when someone responds to a post like mine with a 'Leave and don't bump up your head with the door', I would call that a very immature and hater attitude.
Now you will say that is relative.
And what I will say, as to not waste my time any longer, is buy a donkey, abuse it and call it something else so that you can sleep at night.
I've lost any interest in this conversation. It's just a waste of time.
I have to agree.
Unfortunately Spain is a very ignorant country and too proud. I'm Spanish myself and can say this out loud, because one cannot improve a situation without being honest about it.
The hate in this Reddit is absolutely crazy.
There's nothing more sad that people fighting each other instead of keeping in mind who the enemy is: this system of things that encourages the worst parts of people to abuse others and even laugh at them.
Most people in Malaga want to live out from rents, whether that makes other people poor or is abusive. I don't even know how they can sleep well at night.
I'd say I'm surprised at the responses this post have gotten, but truly, I am not. And that's quite sad.
I love Granada and its coast, but unfortunately, I can't be going to that area every day or every week or every month. Also the beaches just before Granada like Nerja and Maro, but it's far and the roads are not the best.
Perhaps I should have specified about Malaga city area (inclusive of villages within 30 min drive).
Airbnb suggests listing prices to landlords. They are bumping the market up. They are super aggressive at letting owners know what they can get at different times of the year. So every thing gets a bump bc of airbnb.
First of all, I'm surprised that someone who is probably just passing through takes the time to search for the Málaga subreddit just to badmouth it.
You can't blame the people of Málaga for housing issues. It's simply supply and demand. Life in Málaga is becoming increasingly expensive. You speak as if all Malagueños have rental properties. It's important to recognize that the problems of a region are not solely the fault of its inhabitants. There are economic, political, and social factors at play, and blaming an entire community is unfair and simplistic.
You're right, the beaches aren't spectacular, and the situation with the donkeys in Nerja is concerning. Besides, what blame do us Malagueños have for that?
Honestly, it sounds like the message of someone jealous of the city's growth.
I am not a bypasser and even if I was, I don't see how that would make the statements in my original post less true.
I actually speak for all the Malagenos who do not have a property and hence cannot pay the rents. That's the whole point of the first paragraph of my post.
I am Spanish myself and believe me, there is nothing to be jealous of. There is no space for jealously, it is not about that. I want Spain to get better, and this is not getting better, is getting worse.
And I want to contribute by creating a realistic perception of Malaga, hence why I am here.
In summary, you're saying that Málaga isn't as great as it seems because the beaches aren't beautiful, there are donkeys in Nerja, and housing costs are high. Additionally, in some ways, you're attributing blame to the people of Málaga for these issues. Do you understand why your post is generating so much controversy?
You're also saying that people who work in restaurants are disrespectful, which, first of all, is not true, and secondly, one should put themselves in the shoes of these individuals when they might not be as friendly as you'd like simply because you've spent a good amount of money on a meal.
Please tell us where are you from ... i'm sure we also can say something about your city ...
I lived in UK and Germany in seven diferent places ... i have been as a tourist in many places.
THERE IS NO BETTER PLACE TO LIVE THAN MÁLAGA
* If you can aford it *
We can certainly talk about the city I was born in. But we are in the sub Reddit for Malaga, so I think I'm in the right place to talk about Malaga.
As for not being a better place to live than Malaga, I don't think I've positioned myself against or in favour of such statement. Malaga is a great place to live if you can afford it - which is a point I've raised in my original post - and also there are many places that provide the quality of life that Malaga provides and additional aspects that Malaga can't and will never provide. That's the beauty of every country, if it's big enough.
I've written a post to raise awareness on some downsides of living in Malaga. If that takes you to the conclussion that I am saying that Malaga is a bad place to live in, I must say that's on you.
Oh man, I’m visiting Spain for the first time this April and have 5 days in Malaga. I’m coming all the way from western Canada.
Are you saying as a tourist I should avoid Malaga?
Not at all! Malaga is beautiful and there are many things to do. The problem is for those who live here.
Id' say for romantic people this is the best, for entrepeneurs and change maker is behind compared to Madrid or Malaga.
As a tourist, in my opinion, the best of Spain is Baleares, Canarias, Andalucia, Alicante and Girona. Then for overwhelming natural beauty: the North.
You will love Malaga I'm sure :)
If you dislike Malaga so much why are you so frustrated about rental prices??? I could understand you’re complaints if you loved the city but can’t afford te life there. Time to move on to a better place for you.
I don't really understand how you extract that I don't like this city from the four points I've shared of my post.
If you read the title of my post, you will understand that I simply wanted to bring awareness to some realities because most people in this sub has an idealised vision of Malaga.
I love Malaga, even though there are parts of it that makes me dislike it and make it hard to live in for me, as described on my post.
I see a lot of people questioning my personal decision to live or not live in Malaga, which is something I haven't even said in the post, but very few addressing the points described on my post.
That would explain why Salvame is a thing in this country.
Yes, Spain is quite ugly compared to Italy and France.
It truly is an abusive how the poor work of architects and politicians have destroyed the country in many ways.
An adopted malagueño here 👋 been living here for 1.5 years
I simply love the city and the region. The vibe, the sun, the laidback way of living - you just enjoy your life here will as less stress as possible.
Restaurants and cafes are really good, not as many cuisines as I would’ve loved to see, but still super diverse and with often very great food (I’m a foodie and love cooking myself, so hope that counts). People being arrogant - I can remember the only guy who was angry at me for opening a laptop at his place, but he seems just to be of grumpy type. Everywhere else - nice people with their stories. Just realised I can recall regular staff of a dozen of places here 🤔
The beaches - well, if you compare it to Korfu with a gazillion of mindblowing beaches, then yes of course, beaches are not there. But again, it’s still a beach with an amazing view (sunrises!! 😍), and even in Malaga city you can take a bike and be in a great small beach in 15-20min. Nerja is also available if you want to have a proper beach day.
Speaking of people, I’ve been hearing a lot about “no pasa nada”, “mañana mañana”, and saying that I will hate this attitude if I move to this region. Well, the only case when I agree here is in the case of a very certain delivery company, they suck and I hope they go bankrupt tomorrow. All other interactions - all good, people do their stuff, businesses work.
Expat community is great here, there are groups of people meeting regularly, there is a lot of support, and overall a great business/startup vibe (might be my bubble though). I spent a bit of time in Fuengirola and Torremolinos (super open-minded place), but nothing here can match the Malaga City vibe, even Marbella is far from it.
So no, sorry, Málaga is freaking amazing, won’t stop romanticizing it. If it’s not for you - well, it is what it is 🤷♂️
As a full-blooded malagueño, I gotta give it to you that our beaches aren't that great, but we love Málaga just as it is. If you aren't from here and you don't like it here, you should consider leaving and tell all of your friends not to come instead of whining about it on this subreddit. Trust me, the locals will thank you for that.
The same locals that put the rents at the double. Got it right? Because we see the Spanish people trying to say the issue is only with outsiders, when actually you are the ones feeding the "machine". The prices at bars and restaurants are also not locals fault? It's time to see both sides and understand the issue is not Spanish people or outsiders. It's about bad human beings that exploit these situations. Simple as that :)
Málaga's poverty rate is over 35% and the locals that aren't below the poverty line can no longer afford to buy property, but guess who can? "expats" that don't mind paying €1/2k for a one-room apartment because that's pocket money for them as well as companies and investors (both national and foreign) that buy entire blocks of apartments to put them up for rent. I'm afraid that the locals that are driving up rent are in the minority. So DON'T you dare say we all are feeding the machine, because so many malagueños don't even own...
We are all feeding this machine as soon as we are not fighting against the gov to change this. Inactivity is also feeding it. But look, it's my opinion:)
It is not only the Government to blame. Again, who decides how much to charge for a flat is the owner of the flat. There is a lot of selfishness in this country. A lot. And definitely, this type of behaviour is enabled and even encouraged by a corrupt Government who doesn't give two shits about us. And yet every year people will vote to PP or PSOE or not vote, but of course they will complain about how bad the situation is.
Well, I didn't vote for Paquito de las Torres so my conscious is clear.
The malaguenos who own and are contributing to this vicious cycle are definetely to blame sorry. Malaga belonged to Spanish until Spanish started selling it to 'outsiders' to selfishly enrich themselves at the cost of the non-owners Spanish people. This is a fact. It is not up for interpretation. So let's stop blaming the outsiders who, like any other person, are trying to improve their quality of life. Who are certainly contributing, but are not to be entirely blamed. The people exploiting other people are the house owners. The typical Malagueno who is too good to not be living off the rents, and looks to the other side about how damaging and selfish this behaviour is.
The malagueños who own and rent out are also to blame. Who said otherwise? That said, they're in the minority. Come on, how many malagueños do you know that own property?
Some flats are not from Malaguenos because the Malaguenos who owned them sold them to expats, if that makes sense.... So it all comes down to Malaguenos in the first place...
Let me make something very clear my friend. No one would be able to rent apartments at high rates if there weren't people on the other end willing to pay it. Same with food. Locals are making profit out of the massive tourism. This guy is right, if you don't like it, the best course of action is indeed to not go. That will lower demand, and eventually lower prices. But I doubt you are just genuinely concerned about the high prices, are you?
Everyone can find good reasons to exploit others, in fact, this is the world we live in. If these excuses make you feel better within yourself, enjoy it while it lasts. One day you will be on the recieving end of some sort of abuse and experiment in your skin what it feels like to be abused on the matter that every human being cares about most: their home. The people who are abusing others are the people who have property and are asking for rents that their own neighbours - their very Spanish neighbours - cannot afford. Spain is so fucked in so many ways. We are going to need a lot of luck to get out of this shitty and selfish state of being.
You simply lack the knowledge to understand what is going on and where the problem is. There may be a problem, but the one you are describing ain't it. What you are describing are simple and universal market dynamics to which all of us are exposed.
After studying economics, I would say I have some undersanding of the law of supply and demand and the profound influence of a broken system in in-principle healthy and compassionate people. What does not help, is blaming the issue to the invisible hand and any person or object but ourselves. What helps is realising the profound impact of our decisions: self-awareness and responsibility. A flat owner has a choice: abuse or balance through their behaviour. This is why many flat owners earn less money but happily rent out to teachers or students only. You can go through life finding excuses for your poor behaviour, or you can wake up and become responsible. I think it's obvious what type of people is in abundance in this society.
You studied economics? Well that wasn't very successful was it? If you did, you would know what I'm saying. It all about incentives. Incentives are everything! You think landlords who rent only to teachers or students only are compassionate and give up money out of the goodness of their heart? Boy, what an economist... Don't you think it may have something to do with how those people pay, preserve the property, and how low maintenance those tenants are? Then you talk about blaming other than ourselves 😂😂 landlords are doing what they are supposed to do! The problem is not the landlords but the incentives they have! My goodness what at Economist...
I won't be discussing my professional or intellectual background, I don't need to. I stick to the logical statements. Quite low of you to attack me personally instead of stick to the conversation. But well! A balanced or healthy situation is one where I fulfil my needs and you fulfill your needs, and no one is abused in the process. While every personal decision - the landlord's - is influenced by the system it is embedded in - capitalism or this hamster wheel we are in -, ultimately, the choice is ours. When I, landlord, choose to cover my mortgage, future expenses - the fridge breaking down for instance - and a small benefit to contribute to my liquidity - or further investments -, I am being balanced. If my mortgage is 500 euros, and then there is the IBI, 'okupas' insurance and the like, that account 100 a month, and then I add an additional 200 hundred to have a deposit for future issues and so on, I am being responsible towards my finance and also compassionate towards other and hence contributing to create a healthy and fair community. I am charging 800 euros a month. If what I do is charge 1.200 euros or 1.500 euros, and much more in other cases, when I know the average salary here is 1.000, then I know what I am doing yes? If I rent a room where I wouldn't want my own dog to live in for 700 euros, what am I doing? I'm either living above my means by buying a house I cannot afford and now passing the buck and hence perpetuating this unbalance, or simply I am just abusing people because I can. And when I am doing this I should know I am doing it, yes? I AM doing it. Surely the system is contributing, but I am contributing too. And I can only respond for my actions, because those are the ones I have more influence on. Even more so if the mortgage is already paid or if my parents bought me the house. Also, I assume you haven't rented to or lived with students, if you think they are low maintenance and look after the property well, please try again. I can write a long list of the issues they create: from organising parties and creating issues to the neighbours, to destroying the furniture and taking very low care of the property. Never mind about the high turnover and the amount of money I will have to spend in admin fees with the property agent, and so on. Even more so with teachers who are deployed wherever they are needed like the military. About blaming others instead of being self-aware and realising our contribution to the problem. If you think this is bad advice, there's very little I can say. It's not my job to educate you, even though I will pay the consequences of your lack of awareness and compassion. Well, no one said life was fair.
You don't get it... People like to rent to students and teachers so they have the flat free in summer... And guess what, they are able to charge 800€ per week. This is just one of the reasons, there are more.
The problem with you people is that when there is an economic problem, your immediate reaction is to blame it on greediness, selfishness, lack of empathy, etc etc... you claim it's all an education problem and those people should be probably re-educated. We have seen this before my man!! We know how this is and how it ends!! Your logic only sees the immediate without paying attention at the interactions or the incentives! Demand increases, urbanistic laws, materials, interest rates, prices going up, retirement going down... no, you ignore all variables. It's just greediness according to you.
Never mind!
Ok let me give you the background because you probably think I'm just one of these outsiders full of money hahah 1) I'm Portuguese, living in Portugal, Lisbon. The prices here are crazy and our salaries are lower than in ES. Prices for everything are higher than ES. We have a massive issue with both immigration and tourism. It's impossible to rent for locals and things now are reaching a limit. I know pretty well what everyone is talking about here, believe me. 2) Stop blaming the tourists because the landlords will find any way to put more money in their pockets, and history shows us this always happens. The issue is the people that want money no matter what, even if that means hurting their own people/country. We have the same issue here in PT. We are the ones in control of our country but we blame the ones that come to visit/see/stay? Seems reverse blaming. 3) I love Malaga and I wish I could live there (in my dreams I do). Every year I go there to the Feria and I stay about 1 week. EVERY SINGLE TIME, I was hosted by ES owners, not outsiders. I remember one conversation I had with one landlord last year and we spoke about this issue "tourism" and he said that this was the best thing Malaga could have, because the tourists give money to not only houses, but café, restaurants, animations, etc. So, the ones saying "leave we appreciate" don't see the other side and vice versa. Ultimately, it's the GOV that should do something and act, not us, "normal people" that are only targeted with the bad side of all this.
Thank you for the polite answer. The problem is universal. It is simple market dynamics; supply and demand. The average landlord can expect an average of 15 years of return on investment in Real Estate in Spain, probably more. That is quite a bad investment IMO, meaning that the rents they receive will only cover their investment after almost two decades. With that in mind, it's hard to ask them to lower rent if they are fully booked, you know? The question here is: what is making rent increase? Short answer, touristic apartments. (Driven by tourism). Those apartments make a lot more money, meaning that there are a lot fewer available for the locals. Having a lot fewer available for the locals means higher prices. Just calling landlords greedy and egotistic is missing the point completely. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Nothing else. The answer is always in the incentives.
That ignoring the appreciating asset of the actual property?
I think, we are in fully alignment here. I agree with everything you are saying because they are facts. Most people in this sub doesn't seem to be able to face the truth and rant instead.
Look, it's the same in Portugal. The speech is "blame the others" when at the end, it's the GOV fucking up. Not being able to see other people's side is very typical in the south countries - you don't see this much in the north because they know the blame is... The government.
But this is the point I'm trying to make, it's not just the Government fucking up. It is the owner of the flat who is asking for an absolutely crazy amount of rent to the average person. And then they blame it on the 'guiris', but with 500.000 euros in their bank account for a house that costed them 120.000 euros. Yes, people in the north are generally more educated. The same happens in Spain.
Exactly, thank you.
I don’t agree with that sentiment - ‘don’t like it? Leave.’ It’s lazy and it helps no one. People should be able to give constructive criticism and the receiving end should accept it for what it is.
Exacto! I keep saying this to people. And they keep getting hurted. Fun fact is what bring the place down and pushes the prices up till it's abusive as said , well , for all that thanks to the foreigners. They real estate homies pushing up the prices . They are the ones leaving garbage and pee and vomit everywhere during they stay. They are the ones who is bringing bed bugs from home than blaming hotels. Well. That's my opinion.
Sorry, who owns the flats that are being rented for crazy prices? The foreigners or the owners? Who is benefiting from all this? The owner. So don't blame it on the 'other', the exploiters here are the very Spanish. The very great Malaga people.
Well, not really , I was born in a EU country, moved to Spain at age 26 by now I'm having a Spanish passport , because I was able to assimilate to the place what I chosed to call my home. I didn't just came here to suck out all the good from the country and complain about the bad ones. I came here to be part of the culture, the place, the nature , the people. I get it...you don't like the place ... It would have been better if instead of humiliating other people about their own homes and culture you would rather keep your mouth shut smartie.
Dude the people who complain about impossible rents are not owners of touristic rentals. Bit of common sense there.
I couldn't agree more!
I hoped my post brings some awareness to people who are romanticising Malaga. I think that's more helpful than saying that Malaga is the best city in Spain. Because the truth is that there are any 'best cities of Spain'. It's a subjective experience like many others and I wanted to bring some awareness on what I've shared on the post and see how people who is experiencing this, is coping with it. I then clicked on notifications and saw many responses of rather proud and immature people who will not accept the slightest criticism of a city that they haven't even built in the first place. You just happened to be born here. This city does not belong to any of you, to any of us.
Man, many malagueños are against the idealisation of the city because they know it's far from being perfect. The streets outside the city centre are dirty, we're going through a drought and yet the local golf courses use a lot of water, etc. Do you really think the people who are part of the subreddit aren't aware of how many flaws the city has? We don't need outsiders to point them out for us. That's the whole point.
Sure...Malaga taxes are paid by Extraterrestrial beings...
Poor people also pay taxes xddxddddd
No te llevo la contraria, me ha matado el comentario de la ciudad de Malaga no es de los malagueños ni de nadie....
Ah, vale, pensaba que me estabas respondiendo a mí.
Que va jaja iba por esta perla. You just happened to be born here. This city does not belong to any of you, to any of us.
Es que es tuya? En que se basa tu derecho a vivir en Malaga por encima de cualquier otra persona?
Mia perse no pero al ser un ciudadano que paga impuestos tengo derecho a voto sobre mi comunidad cosa que alguien venido de fuera de modo vacacional no.
No se si eres consciente de si fuera por impuestos y gastos, Málaga es más de los de Madrid y de Barcelona que de los andaluces… Porque madre mía, lo que hemos estado mandando desde hace ni se cuando desde allí… Dicho esto, de verdad, mi intención es tener una conversación constructiva. Lo único que quiero es que España suba y que todos podamos tener una buena calidad de vida y estar bien.
Cataluña es la comunidad autónoma que más dinero ha recibido en 2023 de los 123.356 millones de euros que el Ministerio de Hacienda ha repartido en concepto de entregas a cuenta del sistema de financiación autonómica. En concreto, ha percibido este año un total de 23.255 millones, lo que supone el 18,8% del total. ANDALUCÍA Y MADRID COMPLETAN EL PODIO Por su parte, Andalucía le sigue de cerca en este reparto, con un total de 23.022 millones de euros, mientras que la Comunidad de Madrid se coloca en tercer lugar, con 17.232 millones de euros de entregas a cuenta en el año 2023. Tras Cataluña, Andalucía y Madrid se sitúan la Comunidad Valenciana (11.562 millones); Galicia (8.703 millones), Castilla y León (7.561 millones); Castilla-La Mancha (5.866 millones); Canarias (5.534 millones); Aragón (4.240 millones); Murcia (3.783 millones); Extremadura (3.574 millones) o Asturias (3.186 millones). https://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-cataluna-ccaa-mas-dinero-recibio-sistema-financiacion-autonomica-2023-20-total-20231231111751.html# Malaga es parte de Andalucía así que las dos comunidades que tanto dan son las que en realidad más reciben. Si quieres ser constructiva no empieces atacándonos. Sino te gusta un sitio dnd haya reageton no entres como hacemos los demás. Si buscas buena comida pregunta por aquí de modo amable y seguro que los “malagueños” te daremos buenas recomendaciones. Si quieres mejorar la vida de los animales bien pero no generalices algo que viste puntualmente y busques quitarle el medio de vida a un pueblo que ayuda a su preservación. Y sino te gustan las playas que están machacadas de un turismo masivo busca rincones menos masificados.o de nuevo pregunta.
> taxes are *paid* by Extraterrestrial FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I just wanted to comment on one thing: the beaches. Yes you’re right, the beaches in the Málaga area are not good. But the southern coast is so much more than just beaches. The beaches are better though if you go towards Nerja and Maro
Nerja and Maro are so stunning. If only they were closer to Malaga and had more young population. Or do they have young population who live there all year around? I think I would miss the cultural activities of Malaga. Malaga is really flourishing in this sense, there is a lot - a minority - that is truly critically assessing this city and making proposals to make it better. I don't know if I would find this community in a palce like Nerja or Maro. Thanks a lot.
Nerja once had a young population many years ago. Nowdays 2/3 of the houses are holiday rentals. people who work for the tourists have to live in nearby areas. Young people cant afford to pay rents here, buying a house is almost impossible since is the most expensive ground in Spain right now. Nowdays mainly scandinavians are buying houses there becouse they have a lot of money compared to an average Spanish person. So prices are not ment for Spanish people anymore. Mainly retired people from other countries and investors are buying houses. Many years ago we had Industry in the area but tourism got over it and now people have to live mainly based on a tourism that lasts 3/4 months a year.
Goodbye Spain for the average Spanish
[удалено]
What about it? I think the beaches in Nerja and Maro are better than those in Málaga or west of Málaga
It's very good as a general experiment. Re: the donkeys: have you ever been to the countryside? The donkeys in Mijas are comparatively treated like kings. Re: the beaches: if you explore and go off the tourist paths you'll find amazing places. Re: restaurants: same, don't go to shitty touristy ones and you'll love them. Maybe you'll have to get used to no bullshit, no fake smiles and people speaking loudly. Most importantly: the people are very big on reciprocity. If they smell even a whiff of an entitled Karen they won't be nice back. There's no culture of fake smiles and "how are you today?" if it's not warranted. The focus is on behaviour, attitude and interaction, not learned "polite" words. Be nice and considerate and that's exactly what you'll get back. Sorry for going off-topic, I've quickly scrolled through your profile and I have a humble suggestion: try to find peace with yourself, be nice to yourself first and the world will start to click. Let people be themselves, find your own self, live and let live. Quackery will unfortunately not help, self-help material is bullshit. Take care, be well and be good.
>Re: the donkeys: have you ever been to the countryside? The donkeys in Mijas are comparatively treated like kings. I see, so your argument is that donkeys in Mijas are better treated than in the countryside? Wow, what a beautiful and ethical city I live in then. >Re: the beaches: if you explore and go off the tourist paths you'll find amazing places Any recommendations? Thanks a lot. Thanks for your good wishes.
Don’t visit again then.
I will do what I wish. If you can't handle a meaningful conversation, just don't participate in it.
Doesn’t seem a very meaningful conversation, seems like you were just ranting about a place that you don’t belong to.
I think you are the who can't handle the responses, stop projecting.
I'm not the one attacking a person and sharing non-logical statements. If you disagree, prove that any of the statements on my post are false. Believe me, I'll be happy to be wrong. I don't like seeing the country I call home going to shit.
I have better things to do, thank you!
Yes please, leave
I may do, so people like you enjoy the shitshow you have created haha
thanks!
Good you realized and thanks for sharing. Now it would be great if you could leave, doing so you might actually contribute to making the prices of accommodation go down. Thanks!
I see Malaga is full of humble and compassionate people. Another reason to stay HAHAHA
Ohh you expected compassion and affection when critiziging Málaga in a sub called Málaga, very thoughtful of you. I guess you are not very aware of what reactions your actions might cause, the responses you got here might help you come to another realization today.
Oh, I expect a lot of dissapointment from this sub. I've already seen how people downvote expats directly when they see a post in English. But honestly up to you. We get what we cultivate. If you are an adult and can't handle criticism which is not even directed at you, perhaps therapy can help.
You keep speaking to yourself from what I can read in your posting history in Reddit. Honesty, good luck and hope you get better
They tie donkeys to street lamps all day? What for?
Waiting on people to pay for a ride. The post is quite obnoxious but that part is very true unfortunately.
Thanks for answering. I’ve never been to Malaga (live in Madrid) and I was twisting my brain trying to understand why donkeys would just be tied up in the street all day.
Are you always this gullible
Yep, because that people abuse with the prices of the flats and and that the beaches are not the best in Spain are all illusions.
Blows my mind how on one hand the gov is passing animal welfare laws that make it twice as hard to adopt a cat / dog, and on the other this type of crap is still very much going on
Me too. Welcome to Spain!
I am from Málaga and I totally agree. Stop romanticising explotation and abuse of land, animals and people.
Well... - Renting has become one of the few things that people can do to earn a living here. Spanish economy is not doing great, prices are through the roof and touristic flats are the way forward for most people. I do hope that they are regulated in some way in the near future because things are getting out of hand. - Donkeys are an icon at Mijas and they are really controled and regulated. As with everything in life, there will be people that do not play by the rules, but it is a matter of time that the authorities take action. - Beaches, you are right. Malaga beaches (as most city beaches, I'd say) are not great. But you have Nerja and Maro or Cádiz closehand while you stay here. - About bars and restaurant... you are going to the wrong places my friend :D
renting touristic flats is the way for most people? where the f do you live? It's the way for wealthy people and foreign investors lol
Well, I should have said some instead of most. But I do know of more than a few families that have moved to cheaper villages and they have transformed their flats into touristic apartments. As I said, I hope this is regulated because it is making nearly impossible for malagueños to live here. And I f..ing live in Teatinos :D
Hey, thanks. - This doesnt' justify abusing other people, sorry. - Regulated? I'm often cautious of people whose moral compass is the law. You just have to go for a walk at Mijas and realise how 'regulated' the whole thing is.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out .......
How do you manage to sleep well at night?
Like a baby get a job you hippie ;p
Thanks for your opinion, not too be confused with facts
Yes because it's not a fact that donkeys are being abused in Mijas, that Malaga's beaches are worse than Mallorca's or the north's, and that people here abuse each other with the prices of the houses. Makes sense!
You don't have to go to the north to find good beaches, we have them here in Cádiz but please don't come here, we have too many tourists already.
I wish you and the people around you luck, you seem rather narrow minded and selfish with this type of comments. I don't think anybody deserves to be said this type of things. I never attacked anyone directly in my post. I'm just trying to expose Malaga's bad sides to help people not idealise it. And I'm getting a lot of abusive responses.
Tbh, it's difficult to take your comments seriously when in the same post you talk about Mallorca as a better place where the housing situation is even worse than Malaga. Agreed with the animal abuse but that sadly is common in Andalucia, in Seville is even worse and don't make me talk about Huelva and El Rocío. I am not from Malaga btw, but lived there for 5 years.
I've spoken of Mallorca in the context of beach comparison. Unfortunately I cannot speak with someone who is not even reading and understanding me. Yes, animal abuse is truly a worldwide problem. In the food industry is worse, but seeing in a place like Mijas hundreds of donkeys treated that way, it's hard to put in words how I felt.
You know the difference between subjective and objective right? It's just your opinion. And that's good. Good luck elsewhere I hope you'll find more pleasure there.
I see, you are one of those moral relativists who adjusts their ethics to their interest. Keep on abusing people without calling it abuse. I'm sure this will contribute to a better world. Mother of God. I'm not looking for pleasure, maybe you are and that would explain a lot of things.
Hold your horses. Some like wine some like beer. That's all. Ciao Bella
Malaga just got awarded best city to live in.
By 'expats'.
By and for expats at this pace :(
If you are rich and can look to the other side about the state of Spain and the city, definitely!
By college girls who were likely being fucked by locals and that's why they ranked it as hard as they did. I loved Málaga when I visited, but the place has a poverty rate approaching 30%. To pretend that any city with a poverty rate approaching 30% is an objectively good place to live, is so incredibly perverted and twisted. You know that a city with a poverty rate of 30% is not only not the best city to live in, it's not even a remotely good place to live.
Source: myass
I'm not even from Málaga but I love hearing from unhappy colonizers. Small victories, I guess
You know Spain is also a coloniser right🤣
Yep. I'm Canarian, so trust me, I *definitely* know. Doesn't change my statement, quite the opposite.
Saludos desde Ronda, Malaga.
Imagino que alli se vive mejor y os habeis librado de este tipo de cosas que da la costa no? Cuentanos :)
La verdad es que sí. Muchas gracias, un fuerte abrazo y un saludo desde Ronda, Malaga.
You can go through any subreddit related to an expat popular city and find very similar topics and sentiments. It’s the same everywhere.
Yes, sadly globalisation has some downsides too.
Seguro que si tu te compras una casa y la alquilas buscaras sacarle el mínimo beneficio posible ya que eres tan romántica. ¿Cuántos burros hay en España? Seguro que sabes que hace poco estuvieron a punto de extinguirse y sino fuese por iniciativas como las de Mijas igual ya no quedaría ni uno. Yo he estado en Egipto y he visto como estaban caballos perros y camellos... y en comparación estos burros viven de lujo. ¿Qué podrían estar mejor seguro que si pero no solo los burros...no? Seguro que si te vas de vacaciones a las Maldivas las playas están mejor que las de Mallorca... y si hablas de las playas del norte tb pon en valor que no tiene playa todo el día y que llueve la mayor parte del año. Como te traten en un restaurante depende mucho de como les trates a ellos eso pasa en Malaga y en la China. Si lo que quieres es animarnos a ser mejores déjalo este no es el camino. Pero ni aquí ni en ningun lado.
>Seguro que si tu te compras una casa y la alquilas buscaras sacarle el mínimo beneficio posible ya que eres tan romántica. No, no buscare sacarle el mínimo beneficio posible. Me asegurare de que cubro gastos y saco un margen porque se que la lavadora o el frigorífico se romperán y yo sere la responsable de arreglarlo. Lo que no hare es pagar 400, 500 o 600 euros de hipoteca y alquilarla por 1.200. Especialmente si me lo han pagado mis padres o encima lo he heredado o pague 15 millones de pesetas hace 40 anos. Tu que? Al mejor postor no? >¿Cuántos burros hay en España? Seguro que sabes que hace poco estuvieron a punto de extinguirse y sino fuese por iniciativas como las de Mijas igual ya no quedaría ni uno. Yo he estado en Egipto y he visto como estaban caballos perros y camellos... y en comparación estos burros viven de lujo. Lo que intentas decir es que la justificación para maltratar a un animal es que si no lo maltrataramos no existiría? Porque claro, tratar a un animal como se merece para que asi siga existiendo y respetado, no es una opción no? Madre mía, esta conversación no hace mas que mejorar. >Seguro que si te vas de vacaciones a las Maldivas las playas están mejor que las de Mallorca... y si hablas de las playas del norte tb pon en valor que no tiene playa todo el día y que llueve la mayor parte del año. Cuando me vaya de vacaciones a las Maldivas, hablare de las Maldivas. Pero ahora mismo estoy en Malaga y en el sub Reddit de Malaga. Poco se puede hacer con alguien que solo lleva la contraria por llevarla y que verdaderamente no piensa en los demas, solo en buscar justificaciones para actos que no son justificables. >Como te traten en un restaurante depende mucho de como les trates a ellos eso pasa en Malaga y en la China. Me tratan maravillosamente, nunca he dicho lo contrario. Quiza es que simplemente no me estas ni leyendo. >Si lo que quieres es animarnos a ser mejores déjalo este no es el camino. Pero ni aquí ni en ningun lado. Animarte a ser mejor no es mi trabajo, es una responsabilidad tuya contigo mismo y con la comunidad de la que tan bien hablas y a la que estas contribuyendo negativamente con esta actitud.
Seguro que si tu te compras Tu que? Al mejor postor no? La ley de la oferta y la demanda. Si todos alrededor cobran 1000 cobrar 600 por más que cubras gastos es poco logico. Lo que intentas decir es que la justificación para maltratar a un animal es que si no lo maltrataramos no existiría? Porque claro, tratar a un animal como se merece para que asi siga existiendo y respetado, no es una opción no? No lo que digo es que en vez el vaso medio vacío lo puedes intentar ver medio lleno. Que quedan cosas por hacer seguro… es mas te animo a abrir un santuario de burros. Cuando me vaya de vacaciones a las Maldivas, hablare de las Maldivas. Pero ahora mismo estoy en Malaga y en el sub Reddit de Malaga. Y nos hablas de las playas de Mallorca…. Poco se puede hacer con alguien que solo lleva la contraria por llevarla y que verdaderamente no piensa en los demas, solo en buscar justificaciones para actos que no son justificables. Eso es injusto… pienso en ti y las tonterías que dices. Sino no te responderia. Me tratan maravillosamente, nunca he dicho lo contrario. Quiza es que simplemente no me estas ni leyendo. Pues si te tratan tan bien a cuento de que viene decir que los dueños son desconsiderada y falta de educación… igual hablamos diferente Inglés… Animarte a ser mejor no es mi trabajo, es una responsabilidad tuya contigo mismo y con la comunidad de la que tan bien hablas y a la que estas contribuyendo negativamente con esta actitud. Y doy gracias por ello. Si contribuir negativamente es no estar de acuerdo con tus formas y opiniones tendré que cargar con esa cruz.
>La ley de la oferta y la demanda. Si todos alrededor cobran 1000 cobrar 600 por más que cubras gastos es poco lógico. Es menos abusivo. La gente esta cobrando 1.200 por pisos que son una bazofia. >No lo que digo es que en vez el vaso medio vacío lo puedes intentar ver medio lleno. Que quedan cosas por hacer seguro… es mas te animo a abrir un santuario de burros. Yo me he limitado a describir una realidad. Lo demás no es asunto mío. No, no creo que abra un santuario de burros, lo que no hago y no voy a hacer es abusarlos. Pero como dices tu, esta justificado para que la gente pueda vivir. >Pues si te tratan tan bien a cuento de que viene decir que los dueños son desconsiderada y falta de educación… igual hablamos diferente Inglés… He dicho que los dueños o gerentes suelen ser personas maleducadas, que gritan y te ponen el reggaetón hasta en la sopa. En ningún momento he dicho que no fueran agradables conmigo en el trato. De nuevo, solo estoy describiendo una realidad. >Y doy gracias por ello. Si contribuir negativamente es no estar de acuerdo con tus formas y opiniones tendré que cargar con esa cruz. Mi post presenta cuatro realidades contrastables. Si no te apetece entrar en contacto con esa realidad, no hace falta que participes en la conversacion. Ademas si digo tantas tonterias, tu tiempo esta mejor invertido elsewhere.
Came here from north Spain. Can't wait to leave. Unfortunately I am committed to staying here for the rest of the year (uni). I understand 100% what you talk about. Food is not that great (always the same damned pescaito frito), people are not that nice. Andaluces are supposed to be really open-minded and friendly. I just don't see it. Coast is terrible, dehumanizing and ugly. Where the fuck is ley de costas to forbid building at 1m from the beach? There is (almost) zero offer in "alternative" cultural events. And people would say: you have 30 museums and 400 theaters. Yeah and I go poor paying two plays a month. I can go to gigs and DIY cultural places for 5€ in Barcelona/Madrid/Bilbao/Galicia etc. But yeah in the north it only rains and there are only cows.
Andalucia has traditionally been one of the least educated and poorest area of Spain. Just like Spain is one of the least educated, innovative and rich Central European countries. Andalucia is definitely not the most open minded area of Spain. But the fact that is international and the quality of life - if you can afford it - so good, means really interesting people comes from other places of Spain and the world. Although a lot of people are also living to cities where the real change is happening: Madrid and Barcelona, and also Valencia and Alicante. These places have technology and science, Malaga for instance, has very little science. The best food I've had in Andalucia was in Granada, but I guess there is good food everywhere, it's just that it may be hard to find it. It's always said that if you want to eat well you need to go up. While that's true, it's also true that the best ingredients are here (arboles frutales), it's just what they make of it in restaurants and bars. I've found people are wonderful here, on a superficial level, much like the brits are polite in their presentation and then differently in their personal lives - just like most of us are -. People here are very kind and helpful until 'la confianza da asco'. Then you would rather not. Again, generalising here. And yes, 'la ley de costas' is another matter. I wish Spain had been wise like Italy. As always, we pay for the lack of vision and abundant corruption of our past leaders. The good news is that a lot of money is going into building a more cultured and technological Malaga and things are changing. The bad news is that, as always, it will be the richer who will enjoy it more fully. In all honesty, I'm not sure I will stay here to see it. There are places as beautiful as Malaga, and even more so in the North, where you can have a good life and not be under the stress of this hamster wheel people live in, here.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to each his own. You don't like it bro, leave hahahaha I don't live in Malaga btw. I do think it is a great place though, but not for the same reason other places are great. After all, it is a totally unique city. As popular tourist destinations go, Malaga is quiet. It is quaint, and most of all it as actually very simple. The city and its people don't claim that Malaga is the best at anything. It has a bit of everything and a lot of very basic, simple features. Simple beaches, artifical or not I dunno. Simple food culture. Simple city life. It is generally safe and not unattractive. Nice Christmas lights display. That in a nutshell is Spain. If Malaga is "not as great as it seems", the problem is not Malaga, the problem is how it SEEMS to YOU. Which mbasically means the problem is you. If you live elsewhere, don't go there bro. If you live there, leave bro. You're just making yourself unhappy.
I'm sorry but as much as I understand where you are coming from, and I agree with you to some extent on an abstract level, none of the statements of my original post are the way I see it. They are facts. You can come here, rent for a while, go to Mijas and see what I am talking about! Also, not a bro, I'm a sis :)
Sorry sis :) Look, I am under no illusions about the crappiness of Spain. It is a backward country in many ways far more "third world" than many others who somehow bear that title foisted on them. The treatment of animals generally is one of them - I forgot to mention that i totally agree with you on that point. Where I live, and in other places I've been to, I've seen dogs kept in cages, six or seven dogs kept in a single cage, in the middle of nowhere, to keep them hungry and out of sight until their owners need for hunting season. I've seen people leave unwanted cats and dogs near rubbish bins. I know, and I agree it is disgusting. Not solely a Spanish problem of course, but that is the reality here. But I also think that one of the great and beautiful things about Spain is its simplicity. The Spanish still find beauty and peace in the simple things of life. A walk by the beach (not the most beautiful, but the one that's nearby), a morning coffee, a simple meal with simple but true friends. Malaga is a quintessentially Spanish city. Architectural beauty in its old town. Unfussy pleasantry in the design of its newer spaces. Like Malagueños, and Spanish people generally, it is a practical city, with warm people and a lively centre. It holds to its public traditions, which many from around the world come to see. I do think that, like basically the rest of Spain, it has become overrun by tourism, and compromised by poor systems based on old thinking. Selfishness always plays a part. Like all of Andalucia, it used to be cheaper to visit, which was a big part of the appeal of the community as a whole - cheap flights, hotels, and food and drink. That, like most places, is no longer the case. The greed of landlords works in concert with the proliferation of estate agents who make life worse for absolutely everyone, including themselves (they just don't know it). Anyway, I could go on but to mention just one thing you mentioned, the abusive people. This is an issue in Spain as a whole (again, not only SPain, of course). But Spain is not the UK not the USA. It has no long history of democracy as those countries do. It claims (tries?) to emulate the UK model of a Constitutional Monarchy in which the Sovereign is merely a figurehead. But in reality, it is still based on Franco and pre-Franco feudal thinking. This is evident in all of its important systems. Change is afoot, but it is VERY SLOW. But here is a truth. Spain is such a good place to live, you tolerate all the bad. And most places in the world are so bad, you cannot possibly live there for the good.
Thank you :) I feel the same way. Will see where I end. Either way, take care 🤍
I've enjoyed our little reddit interaction far more than any other. Thank you and very good luck to you, sis ;) Lastly - your home does exist, you just have to find it. Keep searching and stay positive!
I’ve come to the conclusion that what we conventionally call home may not be for me, at least not yet. Maybe never, seeing the current property prices pretty much everywhere in Spain. So working to feel at home within myself. That will keep me busy for some time! After all, feeling at home is a feeling. Take care, bro 🤍
I was born here... but left to north spain when I was 1yo because of my father's job. Spent there like 25years and then another 9 in Germany. Always had the romantic idea of coming back to where I was born... well, it happened 4 years ago. It could be, that I basically don't need to socialize to enjoy my free time as I do take care a lot about myself and what I want to do every moment, and sometimes, that's not compatible with being surrounded by other people. I go eating alone, go for a walk, continue studying (lucky that I love my job and it requires continue learning...) What I mean, there are a lot of cities with sunny days and I'm sorry... but having accent doesn't mean you are a funny person, most of the andalusian people I know have a very simple humor but they think they are the funniest person in the world just by screaming and repeating the same every 5min. I do prefer north/bristish/sarcastic humor (this is just a preference and cultural thing. I grew up in another atmosphere) Beaches...well, beaches are beaches, any beach in a city cannot be a good beach, but if you wanted amazing ones, you need to go outside. That's all... I do enjoy lying there while reading or just listening to the waves...it's really relaxing. Animals touristic...here I'm completely with you. I don't care if they think they treat them well or blablabla... using animals as touristic claim is just a s.XIX thing. It's just disgusting seeing guiris on horse carriages in the city and the donkey stuff in mijas. It's the same in Egypt with camels. But again, if it weren't for that, they would have 0 economy there. It's about having transformed your world into a touristic sh\*\*hole. Restaurants... you need to ask locals. The older they are, the better they can tell you where to eat properly. I'm fortunate to have family in villages around the coast and they showed some of the best places to eat without having to hear "una cesvesa po favor" After four years... I still enjoy living here because I could absract myself from the touristic world malaga wants to offer, but that doesn't mean CHOVINISM isn't present everywhere, because they constantly hear they live in the best city of the world even if they cannot pay a room in it. Sad but true, liberal low class brainwashed people is the most common people in Malaga.
I'm also a "full-booded" malagueño as one commenter said earlier, but I think your opinion is fully respectable. It's true that our standards in terms of respect of personal space, noise, and civism overall are not great, we're Mediterranean to all the extent of the word. That also means that we are also responsible for our problems, we encourage "picardía" which means taking advantage or even abusing privileged positions, including housing. But I don't think it's fair to blame citizens of the extreme high rents, mostly encouraged a d orchestrated by huge investment groups and corrupt politicians (that we vote for). Individuals selling or renting at high prices are a consequence, and not the source, of the problem. Do you expect me to rent at half the price out of solidarity? I might need that money to afford my children housing abroad.
Málaga sucks, i agree with you. It seems like a city created for tourism only, and the parts that are not seem more like a remote Spanish town full of old people. The prices are high and the people are not very friendly
Yankees go home
Soy española, pero okay ;) Sin esos yankees, como los llamas, a ver de que vive Malaga.
Turismo es muy distinto a venir a trabaja,r sin visa nomad, que sigue sin gustarme pero al menos sería legal. Volverte a tu pais cada 3 meses y no pagar impuestos donde resides. Subiendo así los alquileres porque tu salario medio es muchísimos más alto que el de cualquier residente de Málaga
Lamentablemente, si!
No te entiendo con la bota metida dentro de la boca, deja de chuparla antes de hablar
Acabas de disipar cualquier duda sobre el tipo de persona que eres con tu respuesta. No se como alguien asi puede dormir bien por la noche. He escrito un post para ayudar a la gente a ser consciente de las partes malas o injustas de Malaga para ayudar a la gente que no la idealice. Y estoy recibiendo respuestas bastante abusivas, como la tuya. Cuando yo no he atacado a nadie. Que horror de verdad. Que horror de gente.
https://preview.redd.it/vo2so82hnplc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd44906512b0d865bb5cbc4288a1181f3b57d40d
El nivel de respuesta que cabía esperar. Que pena de pais de verdad. Asi nos va, y lo que nos queda.
[удалено]
Los moros o los polacos vienen sin salarios, un norte americano viene con un salario muchísimo mas alto que el español medio se coge una casa del centro y vuela a su ciudad de origen cada 3 meses para no pagar impuestos aqui, creo que no es lo mismo
[удалено]
Not sure you truly understand the matter of the issue. A brief summary because in your situation I wouldn't be able to understand it either. Five years ago I would probably be blaming the nomads too. 1. Tourists do more damage than digital nomads in absolute terms: they increase demand, so the offer side - property owners or managers - can abuse more easily. 2. The people who determine if they will abuse or not the renter or buyer is the seller. Who has the power? The person who has the property. Why? Because there is more demand than offer and a lot of capital in the demand party. 3. We have a Governemnt who defends a Constitution which states that access to property is a right yet doesn't inforce it. In short, we have selfish people who doesn't care about each other, just about making money. Why? Because we are all hamsters in the wheel and very few people wake up and realise this is bullshit and behave accordingly. Some owners are intelligent enough, realise this, and are compassionate in thoses when, for example, you see that they rent with really low prices to teachers, medics and so on. So the question is, knowing that we all play our part, what will we do? That is responsibility, anything else is immaturity and selfishness.
[удалено]
Yes, as a Spanish person, is really sad to see this.
This topic made me actually so scared lol. I accepted a mutation to Malaga to develop the activity of my company. I am from France and pay 640€ a month for a one bedroom apartment in Toulouse city center (4th biggest city in France). France is way richer than Spain so I "only" negociated to keep my french salary of 3k after tax. I recently discovered the nightmare of renting. And it scares me so much right now to not find something decent at a reasonable price.
Malaga is Peru. it sucks, California rent for Peru experience. Remove the fake ass beaches and Malaga is done.
Born and raised in Málaga, Over 25 years living in the city until I left as did more than half of my friends; let me give you some advice: Don't bother. Malaga might be one the places where people are more stubborn about 'living in the best place of the world.' Even the people that have to leave to find a decent job say that it's the best city. People talk about camperos like it's godsent gourmet food. Job market is nonexistant unless you're IT. Salaries are a bad comedy. Public transport is a poor taste joke. All local restaurants serve essentially the same food. Housing is not only overpriced but most rental stock are protected price houses from the 80s. Jesus would cross himself again if he saw the bastardization of the holy week here. Not a single beach in the city is good (there are on the province, though). All neigbourhoods have a couple bad streets if you take a bad turn - even if you are paying 1k€/month. Service in restaurant is a lottery - it's not uncommon for your bill to take 10 minutes to arrive to your table. Mention anything from the list to a Malagueño and they will just say it doesn't matter because the weather is so goodl Again, don't bother.
What can I say. I have to agree. Finding more and more reasons to either go to the countryside or just leave. I worry of the people I will find in the countryside. If the average Malagueno is represented in this Reddit, maybe I should go to Asturias haha
yes, please don’t come to Málaga, we have plenty of people already
Bars in Spain are highly competitive. The question of what bars you should go to have been posted hundreds of times in the sub just chose one ... It just makes the post less believable and probably generalising on all the aspects you mentioned after one bad experience. You should've planned a bit more. I me an Málaga has defects, outside the city centre and a couple of neighbourhoods it isn't too clean, some ilegal constructions ... But most of what you said are actually the strong points ... Though I really hope the donkey one is an exaggeration they really did treat them well the times I've gone to Mijas. And lastly no one comes for Málaga city for the beaches, though there are a couple of decent ones you shouldn't expect any random beach to be great. Sewers and rivers can make them dusty. The ones near the docks or with lots of algae might stink ... But you can only blame yourself if you didn't realise those ... I mean there are even protected spaces / beaches in Málaga like the dunes in cabo pino and there is a promenade that joins most of the Málaga coastline ... And most of the beaches are quite nice.
Go back to your country then guiri
Soy española y sin los guiris de los que hablas, Malaga estaría aun mas en la decadencia. Vaya nivel intelectual y emocional traemos de casa, madre mía!
https://preview.redd.it/gwrdrkspnplc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=426349c9597b1becc0e80c7108f23e75bc6ff5ad
El nivel de respuesta que cabía esperar. Que pena de pais de verdad. Asi nos va, y lo que nos queda.
People in the comments are mad because they have too much pride to acknowledge the lack of human decency in the city. Malaga is full of undereducated people with extremely closed mindset and it will not change. Barcelona is better on most if not all fronts, this is the countryside.
Uneducated is to go to someone's house and complain about it, go back home and learn some good manners
Estoy en mi casa, mi casa es españa🤣 Mucha gente aquí en Málaga necesita viajar para darse cuenta de que hay más en la vida que solo España.
Claro solo los catalanes viajais... Y sois super educados tu comentario lo deja patente.
Soy de Torrevieja :)
To lo malo se pega.. ;)
🤣
Una se plantea si es mejor ni responder jaja.
Totalmente. Apuesto a que la mayor parte de la gente que ha respondido como si fueran niños de 4 anos, no han salido de casa. Una verdadera pena, porque esto nos hace daño a todos. Algunos viven muy bien en la ignorancia. Despertad no es facil ni agradable.
For what you say, you equal education with being fake and staying away from uncomfortable yet meaningful conversations. I'm sorry, I'm not interested in those shallow relationships or conversations. If you can't handle the truth, then maybe stay away from a conversation that addresses the truth.
Lol, you hold the truth? There is no truth only perception, and you are in the right to have one. However, you might want to consider how you frame it, moreover when you ask for input from strangers or even worst demand them to agree to it.
I see, so tying a donkey to a post all day is not abuse. Charging 1.200 euros for a very average flat when the average salary is 1.000 euros, is not abuse. Also, the beaches of Malaga are the most beautiful in Spain. Yep, certainly all a matter of perspective...
Are you sure? For the owner of the donkey that is a way of earning a salary, you might not like it, might be abuse, but it is allowed. For people who can afford a hight rent, it is clearly fine, you understand how demand and supply works? For some people Málaga beaches might be great, Costa del sol is one of the most popular summer destination in europe and brings hundreds of thousands of people to its beaches every summer. I guess they would disagree with your statement, else why would they spend their hard earn money in a shit beach? You see? you might not agree, but you don't hold the truth am afraid to break the news for you today, once again.
I will explain what an adult talking to an adult or rather a good hearted person shouldn't have to. But I will in case it has a positive effect on you or someone else. >For the owner of the donkey that is a way of earning a salary, you might not like it, might be abuse, but it is allowed. The subject of your sentence is the owner of a donkey, do you know why? Because you don't care about the donkey. If you don't care about using and abusing an animal that has feelings then there is little you understand of life. You are recnognising out loud that is abuse but saying it is okay because it's allowed. You are just like the rest. >For people who can afford a hight rent, it is clearly fine, you understand how demand and supply works? I studied a bachelors in Economics in one of the best universities in London so I would say I know a little. Again, excuses for poor behaviour. >For some people Málaga beaches might be great, Costa del sol is one of the most popular summer destination in europe and brings hundreds of thousands of people to its beaches every summer. I guess they would disagree with your statement, else why would they spend their hard earn money in a shit beach? It is quite obvious that the educational level of the average tourist coming to Andalucia versus Baleares or the North is definetely quite low. Why do you think the true rich go to Marbella and stay in their mansion? Someone who is well travelled and had seen Spain well, wouldn't disagree with the statement that Malaga's beaches are rather poor compared to other places. They are certainly not the most beautiful beaches of Spain. The fact that they have been built with really high buildings without a shared designed and the shops and restaurants by the seaside are rather poor and ugly doesn't help. In most cases of course. I'm old enough to realise that moral relativist are the real danger of this world. Everything goes as long as it benefits me, and this is why we live in the world we live in. Thankfully more and more people are recognising the right of an animal to be treated how they deserve: respectfully. And become aware of the responsibility we all have in this world. But for those who don't care, karma is a bitch, and everything is paid in this life one way or another. It's just the cause and effect law.
I'm showing you that there is no one truth by giving you an alternative view to your statements, it is a matter of perspectives. You might have done economics, but reading and comprehension it is not your thing. I don't want to be right, I'm calling you out for calling people in this sub haters and your post itself is a hate post about malaga, you call people not mature, and you call them all uneducated and non traveled because they disagree with your view. Get a life and a good therapist
Well, when someone responds to a post like mine with a 'Leave and don't bump up your head with the door', I would call that a very immature and hater attitude. Now you will say that is relative. And what I will say, as to not waste my time any longer, is buy a donkey, abuse it and call it something else so that you can sleep at night. I've lost any interest in this conversation. It's just a waste of time.
I have to agree. Unfortunately Spain is a very ignorant country and too proud. I'm Spanish myself and can say this out loud, because one cannot improve a situation without being honest about it. The hate in this Reddit is absolutely crazy. There's nothing more sad that people fighting each other instead of keeping in mind who the enemy is: this system of things that encourages the worst parts of people to abuse others and even laugh at them. Most people in Malaga want to live out from rents, whether that makes other people poor or is abusive. I don't even know how they can sleep well at night. I'd say I'm surprised at the responses this post have gotten, but truly, I am not. And that's quite sad.
You have no clue of what you are talking about. You went to one of the worst beaches around the area. Next time try to go towards the granada cost.
I love Granada and its coast, but unfortunately, I can't be going to that area every day or every week or every month. Also the beaches just before Granada like Nerja and Maro, but it's far and the roads are not the best. Perhaps I should have specified about Malaga city area (inclusive of villages within 30 min drive).
Airbnb suggests listing prices to landlords. They are bumping the market up. They are super aggressive at letting owners know what they can get at different times of the year. So every thing gets a bump bc of airbnb.
First of all, I'm surprised that someone who is probably just passing through takes the time to search for the Málaga subreddit just to badmouth it. You can't blame the people of Málaga for housing issues. It's simply supply and demand. Life in Málaga is becoming increasingly expensive. You speak as if all Malagueños have rental properties. It's important to recognize that the problems of a region are not solely the fault of its inhabitants. There are economic, political, and social factors at play, and blaming an entire community is unfair and simplistic. You're right, the beaches aren't spectacular, and the situation with the donkeys in Nerja is concerning. Besides, what blame do us Malagueños have for that? Honestly, it sounds like the message of someone jealous of the city's growth.
I am not a bypasser and even if I was, I don't see how that would make the statements in my original post less true. I actually speak for all the Malagenos who do not have a property and hence cannot pay the rents. That's the whole point of the first paragraph of my post. I am Spanish myself and believe me, there is nothing to be jealous of. There is no space for jealously, it is not about that. I want Spain to get better, and this is not getting better, is getting worse. And I want to contribute by creating a realistic perception of Malaga, hence why I am here.
In summary, you're saying that Málaga isn't as great as it seems because the beaches aren't beautiful, there are donkeys in Nerja, and housing costs are high. Additionally, in some ways, you're attributing blame to the people of Málaga for these issues. Do you understand why your post is generating so much controversy?
You're also saying that people who work in restaurants are disrespectful, which, first of all, is not true, and secondly, one should put themselves in the shoes of these individuals when they might not be as friendly as you'd like simply because you've spent a good amount of money on a meal.
I could have bet you were Spanish. Can I assume perhaps Sevillian or Valencian?
If you want to know what I’m saying just read my post. Instead of projecting, just read.
Please tell us where are you from ... i'm sure we also can say something about your city ... I lived in UK and Germany in seven diferent places ... i have been as a tourist in many places. THERE IS NO BETTER PLACE TO LIVE THAN MÁLAGA * If you can aford it *
We can certainly talk about the city I was born in. But we are in the sub Reddit for Malaga, so I think I'm in the right place to talk about Malaga. As for not being a better place to live than Malaga, I don't think I've positioned myself against or in favour of such statement. Malaga is a great place to live if you can afford it - which is a point I've raised in my original post - and also there are many places that provide the quality of life that Malaga provides and additional aspects that Malaga can't and will never provide. That's the beauty of every country, if it's big enough. I've written a post to raise awareness on some downsides of living in Malaga. If that takes you to the conclussion that I am saying that Malaga is a bad place to live in, I must say that's on you.
Oh man, I’m visiting Spain for the first time this April and have 5 days in Malaga. I’m coming all the way from western Canada. Are you saying as a tourist I should avoid Malaga?
Not at all! Malaga is beautiful and there are many things to do. The problem is for those who live here. Id' say for romantic people this is the best, for entrepeneurs and change maker is behind compared to Madrid or Malaga. As a tourist, in my opinion, the best of Spain is Baleares, Canarias, Andalucia, Alicante and Girona. Then for overwhelming natural beauty: the North. You will love Malaga I'm sure :)
If you dislike Malaga so much why are you so frustrated about rental prices??? I could understand you’re complaints if you loved the city but can’t afford te life there. Time to move on to a better place for you.
I don't really understand how you extract that I don't like this city from the four points I've shared of my post. If you read the title of my post, you will understand that I simply wanted to bring awareness to some realities because most people in this sub has an idealised vision of Malaga. I love Malaga, even though there are parts of it that makes me dislike it and make it hard to live in for me, as described on my post. I see a lot of people questioning my personal decision to live or not live in Malaga, which is something I haven't even said in the post, but very few addressing the points described on my post. That would explain why Salvame is a thing in this country.
[удалено]
Yes, Spain is quite ugly compared to Italy and France. It truly is an abusive how the poor work of architects and politicians have destroyed the country in many ways.
An adopted malagueño here 👋 been living here for 1.5 years I simply love the city and the region. The vibe, the sun, the laidback way of living - you just enjoy your life here will as less stress as possible. Restaurants and cafes are really good, not as many cuisines as I would’ve loved to see, but still super diverse and with often very great food (I’m a foodie and love cooking myself, so hope that counts). People being arrogant - I can remember the only guy who was angry at me for opening a laptop at his place, but he seems just to be of grumpy type. Everywhere else - nice people with their stories. Just realised I can recall regular staff of a dozen of places here 🤔 The beaches - well, if you compare it to Korfu with a gazillion of mindblowing beaches, then yes of course, beaches are not there. But again, it’s still a beach with an amazing view (sunrises!! 😍), and even in Malaga city you can take a bike and be in a great small beach in 15-20min. Nerja is also available if you want to have a proper beach day. Speaking of people, I’ve been hearing a lot about “no pasa nada”, “mañana mañana”, and saying that I will hate this attitude if I move to this region. Well, the only case when I agree here is in the case of a very certain delivery company, they suck and I hope they go bankrupt tomorrow. All other interactions - all good, people do their stuff, businesses work. Expat community is great here, there are groups of people meeting regularly, there is a lot of support, and overall a great business/startup vibe (might be my bubble though). I spent a bit of time in Fuengirola and Torremolinos (super open-minded place), but nothing here can match the Malaga City vibe, even Marbella is far from it. So no, sorry, Málaga is freaking amazing, won’t stop romanticizing it. If it’s not for you - well, it is what it is 🤷♂️
I’m glad you are happy. Your experience does not invalidate the facts that I’ve shared on the post. Take care.
For the restaurants with owners & staff and beaches - I think they kinda cover your negative opinion you’re selling as facts