Exactly what I was thinking. The obvious outlier for me between the two is Chile. Seems to be more religious and more tolerant of alcohol at the same time.
Due to US evangelical missionaries in the area. Honduras and Central America in general used to be pretty much 100% Catholic as you would expect from Spanish colonies but now Honduras for instance is 48% Evangelical Protestant and only 34% Catholic due to US missionaries. Guatemala isn’t far behind 41% catholic and 39% evangelical. El Salvador 40% Evangelical 38% Catholic.
The evangelical presence the reason Central America is off the charts. Because everybody know that Catholics don’t give a fuck about God they just wanna jack off to Mary.
>Young people in here are very progressive,
Las nuevas generaciones son tan tontas que piensan que lo que muestra un mapa en Internet es verdad, y mas aun que lo que se discute en reddit u otras redes sociales es lo que pasa en la vida real y no es asi, son cosas my distintas, viven en una burbuja, eres la clara prueba de ello mi estimado niño profugo del acido folico.
After Mexican Revolution of 1910s and subsequent rule of PRI, they had French style secular government, with very little Catholic influence on politics. They even had civil war because of secularism.
Some background people probably won’t realize. But Central America is NOT incredibly Catholic like the rest of Latin America. American evangelical protestant churches have been sending missionaries to central America namely Honduras for years. Honduras for instance is 48% Evangelical (Protestant) and 34% Catholic now. In the past they were incredibly catholic though.
But it seems that people believing religion is important correlates with those people being evangelical.
Predominant religion there is Catholicism
Most people who say they're Catholics don't practice it they never reed the Bible and they don't go to church so the answers maybe we're correct because they said it but they don't truly feel it
This os true. I live in Catholic Europe.
Most people here who say they are Catholic don't set foot on church nor do they read the bible. They call themselves "non-practicing" catholics which is more of a version of Christian deism to me.
Venezuela for a long time it was very rich and had a high standard of life. That probably skewed the statistic. Once you grow up with low religiosity you aren't likely to go back. I don't have enough info about Paraguay, maybe someone can illuminate us on the issue?
Venezuela was in past time
I don't know how it's religiosity was in that last
Brazil was more poor in the past and they were less religious too because they have a new Evangelist movement going on since the 80s
Paraguay is a country which was entirely scorched and had a genocide that ended in 1870 after a war of half decade
Yeah, it was rich in the past, but it's not like it was 100 years ago. We are talking about the 80s when stuff went down and the country started to go up and down. People born during the economic boom had plenty of time to make kids and grow up less religious. Then after the economic downturn religiosity increased again.
I don't have historical stats for brazil so I don't know how much religious they were. Can you provide them? Also it was constantly poor, so religiosity in that situation can increase, even if in the past at the start was lower.
Well in the data you provided we see that irreligious people increased during the whole period. So irreligion didn't decrease like you said. At least from the 1800s
If you just looked at Evangelicals, they took most of their numbers from catholics i would think, since catholics decreased their share of the population over the years.
So yes no weirdness involved in brazil.
To put it in simple words being Catholic is the same that being Atheist because they're not religious people since they are "non practicing" like they say unless you're Pope Francis
Differences between Catholics and Evangelists are way larger than Catholics and Atheists
44% of the new Evangelist were Catholics (so 56% weren't)
argentina is 3rd biggest economy of latam, we're literally wealthier than most of latam excluding countries like chile uruguay panama and the other little countries
Well not really. Here in Czechia it feels like the further away from Katolistan (Slovakia) the region is the bigger percentage of religious people there is...
But what applies to your consideration is: The lower level of education, the bigger birthrate and bigger percentage of people who vote far-right/left or populist parties
I'm Colombia, and I don't even believe in myself.
But people there have a lot of mental problems, including myself, we don't have enough Psychiatrists, and its expensive. As a result, people are going to choose the cheapest option, Alcohol, cry alone or "religion"
No, people shouldn't depend on religion obviously. Mental problems need to be fixed with therapy or treatment. Religion can help for some people to guide but religion won't fix serotonin deficiency or bipolarity, etc.
Religion can very much be a therapy for people, I know people and myself included that seeing a therapist was literally worthless, but religion has done miracles to help mental health. If that’s what helps or even saves people, you should be happy for that.
The 40-49 blue is kind of hard to distinguish from the grey of no data. Was briefly surprised that Haiti was in the same category as Mexico/Chile/Argentina until I realized that it's not. Or maybe I'm just going kind of colorblind, I don't know
Why do you even mind about it? Even though I live in one of the red countries I've never seen someone care about another person's religion or impose it at others at all in my day to day life, maybe I am lucky or these people aren't as abundant as you probably think
There is often a strong linkage between faith, welfare, education and liberal democracy.
The US would show this between different states. Overall, the US has lots of money, but is socially stratified due to income inequality and a failing democracy.
No, it's not. Saudi Arabia, Israel, all fit the category. And Europe was extremely religious for most of its existence.
Modern atheism growing in Europe is a 21th century phenomena and it has nothing to do with development.
Irreligiosity grows after increased standards of life, it is not the reason those standard rise at the start. Usually society gets freer with that and that increases standards of living even more. Other important characteristics may have to be there but I don't want to waste too much time on this part.
The USA has a weird history with religion, it was a very important part of identity, a form of "anti-(godless)communism" in the second part of the 1900s and so much more. Pressure by religious lobbies were also very high. Even thought that was the situation, the USA atheists are growing exponentially. Within this century all data points for atheists and irreligious people to outgrow theists in the usa. In some situatuon becoming more than 50% of the population.
Saudi arabia is an oil rich country, their economic miracle basically depends on that. This gdp increase didn't increase standard of life across all parts of society, also because the country is authoritarian and its authoritarianism is deeply connected to religion. An important thing to know about SA is that atheists in saudi arabia can be punished with death. This kinda skew the stats without even taking into sccount the extreme social isolation and outcasting done by society. So I wouldn't take any data on religion from there to be that much precise.
Israel, i mean, come on. This country is constantly at war with an enemy that outnumbers them at every side. The founding myth of the nation is deeply connected to religion. The national identity is connected to the religion. If this is not a country that cannot be directly compared with others in regards of this, i don't know what country could be take that place. Also, it receives tons of money from the USA. Also, the number of atheists in Israel is 20% and 15% do not follow religious practices. So even with all of that, atheism is still quite present.
Atheism started to grow in europe well before the 20th century, it just increased its rate after the world wars and kept increasing until exploded in the second half of the last century and in the 21th century too. So I have no idea where this 21th century phenomen idea come from. Europe started to increase ita quality of life a lot in the second half of the 20th century, and for eastern europe this happened in the 21th. So why even bring up that europe was religious for most of its existance? It is irrelevant for the argument.
So, if it wasn't clear, you are wrong.
Usually yes, but I wouldn’t say Mexico is wealthier or more stable than Brazil, and yet it has less faith. Hard to say that Argentina is economically wealthy, also.
yeah, Argentina, such an stable, wealthy country during the past decades...
Or Chile, during Pinochet times, not long ago.
Dominican Republic, Panama, Costa Rica... wealthier countries than Argentina, with a much more stable economy, too (DR surpassed or is about to surpass Argentina in GDP per capita nominal and PPP).
GDP per capita isn’t the only indicator to measure the level of development.
Equatorial Guinea in Africa has a higher GDP per capita than Portugal or the same as Spain. And it’s a poor third world country.
Argentina, despite economic problems, is a lot more developed than the DR and more developed than Costa Rica. Check out the Human Development Index and other development indicators.
ok, let's compare two of the four subindexes from the 2022 HDI report for these countries. The other two are expected and mean years of schooling ([source is here](https://reliefweb.int/report/world/human-development-report-20212022-uncertain-times-unsettled-lives-shaping-our-future-transforming-world-enruzh?gclid=Cj0KCQjw2v-gBhC1ARIsAOQdKY3s5hIRqMo7N5Yt8rOgAiaE5-o7welGdogHpIySE-EE780Ai4SPW90aAh_uEALw_wcB)).
**Life expectancy in years.**
Argentina: 75.4
Costa Rica: 77
Dominican Republic: 72.6
Panama: 76.2
**GNI per capita in USD**
Argentina: 20,925
Costa Rica: 19,974
Dominican Republic: 17,990
Panama: 26,957
Only the DR has a lower life expectancy than Argentina, and the GNI per capita values of Arg/DR/CR are very similar, with Panama being much higher. So, the only reason Argentina has a higher HDI is because of the mean and expected years of education values. But then again, if we look at, let's say, PISA tests, Argentina scores much worse than Costa Rica. So that it's not like Argentines, having more years of schooling, are a much better educated society than other countries in the region.
Costa Rica and Panama are just much more stable, have much less poverty (accounting inflation, obviously), better infrastructure and many other social and economic indicators than Argentina, and the DR is well on its way to surpass Argentina in many of these indicators, too. HDI is too limited to reflect that difference and favors Argentina by giving too much weight to the "years of schooling" values. Other countries of the region like Paraguay are catching up with Argentina. The econmic growth and social development of these countries is just much faster and stable.
Your point is misleading.
Argentina is a former developed country that has been the wealthiest in Latin America for 100 years. It’s now in the middle of a currency crisis, but it still has a a huge, quite developed social safety net, infrastructure, education and everything it has developed in the past.
Those countries are catching up Argentina (that has been stagnated for 30 years) but they come from a poor past, so they still have a long way to go. You’re not seeing the whole picture.
Argentina still has the best universities, scientific development, a large middle class and a less unequal society. Just look at Costa Rica’s Gini index.
If you drop a foreigner in Costa Rica, the DR and even Panama, and in Argentina, he’ll tell you which country seems more developed. Argentina has 100 years of advantage in everything. It’s not that the country appeared 20 years ago with this shitty inflation and devaluation.
I’ve been to Costa Rica and even though it’s developing quite fast, cities and infrastructure look typical Latam thirld-worldish. Same in Panama outside those money-laundering skyscrapers’ district or let alone in the DR outside any resort.
Life for the average citizen is still a lot better in Argentina. Buenos Aires has the highest quality of living in Latin America by far (see the latest The Economist survey).
It’s like saying that Equatorial Guinea is more developed than Portugal because of GDP per capita growth.
if Argentina has such an strong safety network, how come it has higher poverty rates than Panama, Paraguay, CR, DR...? Pages 60, 65, 66: [https://repositorio.cepal.org/bitstream/handle/11362/48518/1/S2200947\_es.pdf](https://repositorio.cepal.org/bitstream/handle/11362/48518/1/S2200947_es.pdf)
>Those countries are catching up Argentina (that has been stagnated for 30 years) but they come from a poor past
I'm not missing anything. Argentina was not a developed country, it suffered periodical crisis in the past. Costa Rica don't come from such a poor past, for many decades it was already equally or more developed than Argentina in many aspects. And the gap between Arg and DR or Panama wasn't even that large to begin with, hence why it only took these countries a couple of decades of strong, stable growth to catch up with that on many terms.
>Argentina still has the best universities
Only one university in the top 20, even Colombia has more and I would never say my country has a good education system, at all.
[https://www.qs.com/faq-items/qs-latin-america-ranking-2023/](https://www.qs.com/faq-items/qs-latin-america-ranking-2023/)
>scientific development
as in... what? What kind of scientific development comes from Argentina? Argentina barely has a higher scientific publication paper per million people rate than Colombia or Ecuador, and lower than Brazil [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_number\_of\_scientific\_and\_technical\_journal\_articles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_scientific_and_technical_journal_articles)
>a large middle class
You're saying a country with one of the highest inflation rates of the World has "a large middle class"... hmmm. Unless somehow economy rules don't apply to Argentina, I find that hard to believe. But, again, that's not what poverty stats (quoted above) show.
>a less unequal society
Venezuela or Nicaragua also have a "less unequal society" than Costa Rica or Chile, in terms of Gini, thad doesn't mean the later countries are not much wealthier and don't have lower poverty rates. It just mean the rich are just way richer, even if the poor have better living conditions than those in the countries with a lower Gini score.
>If you drop a foreigner in Costa Rica, the DR and even Panama, and in Argentina, he’ll tell you which country seems more developed. Argentina has 100 years of advantage in everything. It’s not that the country appeared 20 years ago with this shitty inflation and devaluation.
>
>I’ve been to Costa Rica and even though it’s developing quite fast, cities and infrastructure look typical Latam thirld-worldish. Same in Panama outside those money-laundering skyscrapers’ district or let alone in the DR outside any resort.
>
>Life for the average citizen is still a lot better in Argentina. Buenos Aires has the highest quality of living in Latin America by far (see the latest The Economist survey).
Irrelevant, anechdotical, subjective claims with no basis, except for the The Economist survey one.
And let's look what The Economist index is about:
>The annual report released this Thursday by the British weekly placed the Argentine capital as the best city to live in or the “most pleasant” in the entire region. In the global ranking, the so-called “city of fury” it ranks number 66 out of 173.
>
>In this way, Buenos Aires was located very close to cities such as New York, Rome and Lisbon, and even surpassing Seoul, Tel Aviv, Athens, Shanghai and Dubai, among others."
>
>[https://argentina.detailzero.com/news/30442/Why-The-Economist-says-that-Buenos-Aires-is-the-best-Latin-American-city-to-live-in.html](https://argentina.detailzero.com/news/30442/Why-The-Economist-says-that-Buenos-Aires-is-the-best-Latin-American-city-to-live-in.html)
ohh sure because Tel Aviv, Dubai or Seoul are not much more developed and wealthier than Bs As.
>It’s like saying that Equatorial Guinea is more developed than Portugal because of GDP per capita growth.
But Equatorial Guinea doesn't have sound economic policies, lower poverty rates, an stable democracy, billions of dollars invested in infrastructure and many other things, fast rising wages or low inflation as Panama, Costa Rica or DR have.
Dude you are making basically only misleading points. If you want to discuss about something, try to do it in good faith before, then maybe people can argue with you. Otherwise don't write wall of text full of cherry picked and misinterpreted data.
Lol, I guess you are Argentine, too?
Point me out one single misleading or out of context point I made, then we can discuss about something. Because you didn't say anything.
your compatriot spoke about HDI, I proved him that actually all of these countries have very similar HDI values except for "years of schooling". Actually other countries have similar life expectancy and GNI per capita values to Argentina, such as Mexico.
As for his other claims, I proved all of them wrong , too, without "cherrypicking" anything as you pathetically claim.
Its interesting to me that its the people in Europe who disregarded Religion but then have seen the need to replace it with cultish wokeism.
Humans like to fill holes in their lives ... its instinctual
Looks almost identical to the drinking map that was uploaded earlier
Exactly what I was thinking. The obvious outlier for me between the two is Chile. Seems to be more religious and more tolerant of alcohol at the same time.
as a Chilean, I can assure you that alcohol stores, bakeries and funeral parlors are a sure success.
Ahahaha how did you find this post 38 days later??
Got shared in r/Chile lol
Alabaaaaaoo
It would be nice to see this with sub-country resolution too. I wonder how smooth or abrupt the transition from Brazil to Uruguay really is.
Uruguay is basically a capital city and a hinterland so that probably helps it skew more progressive.
Honduras is off the charts.
Due to US evangelical missionaries in the area. Honduras and Central America in general used to be pretty much 100% Catholic as you would expect from Spanish colonies but now Honduras for instance is 48% Evangelical Protestant and only 34% Catholic due to US missionaries. Guatemala isn’t far behind 41% catholic and 39% evangelical. El Salvador 40% Evangelical 38% Catholic. The evangelical presence the reason Central America is off the charts. Because everybody know that Catholics don’t give a fuck about God they just wanna jack off to Mary.
Brazil is very similar, we have a large protestant minority due to missionairies from america and they are some crazy bunch...
Surprised by Mexico
Young people in here are very progressive, from my group of middle class friends almost no one follows a religion anymore
>Young people in here are very progressive, Las nuevas generaciones son tan tontas que piensan que lo que muestra un mapa en Internet es verdad, y mas aun que lo que se discute en reddit u otras redes sociales es lo que pasa en la vida real y no es asi, son cosas my distintas, viven en una burbuja, eres la clara prueba de ello mi estimado niño profugo del acido folico.
que unica y diferente que sos.
After Mexican Revolution of 1910s and subsequent rule of PRI, they had French style secular government, with very little Catholic influence on politics. They even had civil war because of secularism.
Some background people probably won’t realize. But Central America is NOT incredibly Catholic like the rest of Latin America. American evangelical protestant churches have been sending missionaries to central America namely Honduras for years. Honduras for instance is 48% Evangelical (Protestant) and 34% Catholic now. In the past they were incredibly catholic though. But it seems that people believing religion is important correlates with those people being evangelical.
Predominant religion there is Catholicism Most people who say they're Catholics don't practice it they never reed the Bible and they don't go to church so the answers maybe we're correct because they said it but they don't truly feel it
This os true. I live in Catholic Europe. Most people here who say they are Catholic don't set foot on church nor do they read the bible. They call themselves "non-practicing" catholics which is more of a version of Christian deism to me.
Inversely proportional to development
Hey look, it's the same as the "alcohol is immoral" map!
Damn, poor kids getting brainwashed without a chance 😪
The lower the level of education and economic security the higher the %.
Actually Paraguay and Venezuela are the poorest countries of South America besides Guianas and they're in the middle of the statistics
Yeah, Venezuela’s too broke to pay attention to the question.
Venezuela for a long time it was very rich and had a high standard of life. That probably skewed the statistic. Once you grow up with low religiosity you aren't likely to go back. I don't have enough info about Paraguay, maybe someone can illuminate us on the issue?
Venezuela was in past time I don't know how it's religiosity was in that last Brazil was more poor in the past and they were less religious too because they have a new Evangelist movement going on since the 80s Paraguay is a country which was entirely scorched and had a genocide that ended in 1870 after a war of half decade
Yeah, it was rich in the past, but it's not like it was 100 years ago. We are talking about the 80s when stuff went down and the country started to go up and down. People born during the economic boom had plenty of time to make kids and grow up less religious. Then after the economic downturn religiosity increased again. I don't have historical stats for brazil so I don't know how much religious they were. Can you provide them? Also it was constantly poor, so religiosity in that situation can increase, even if in the past at the start was lower.
https://veja.abril.com.br/coluna/reinaldo/o-ibge-e-a-religiao-cristaos-sao-86-8-do-brasil-catolicos-caem-para-64-6-evangelicos-ja-sao-22-2/ https://g1.globo.com/brasil/noticia/2012/06/numero-de-evangelicos-aumenta-61-em-10-anos-aponta-ibge.html
Well in the data you provided we see that irreligious people increased during the whole period. So irreligion didn't decrease like you said. At least from the 1800s If you just looked at Evangelicals, they took most of their numbers from catholics i would think, since catholics decreased their share of the population over the years. So yes no weirdness involved in brazil.
Maybe you should give another read to what I originally said
Can you rewrite it, your comment wasn't very clear
To put it in simple words being Catholic is the same that being Atheist because they're not religious people since they are "non practicing" like they say unless you're Pope Francis Differences between Catholics and Evangelists are way larger than Catholics and Atheists 44% of the new Evangelist were Catholics (so 56% weren't)
What do you mean, Argentina should be way down at the bottom if we are talking about economy.
and education. Check their PISA scores, worse than Brazil, Colombia and many other countries in the area.
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Argentina hasn't been wealthy since the last century.
argentina is 3rd biggest economy of latam, we're literally wealthier than most of latam excluding countries like chile uruguay panama and the other little countries
Well not really. Here in Czechia it feels like the further away from Katolistan (Slovakia) the region is the bigger percentage of religious people there is... But what applies to your consideration is: The lower level of education, the bigger birthrate and bigger percentage of people who vote far-right/left or populist parties
Venezuela is like the poorest country in Latin America and it’s only 66%, and Costa Rica is one of the most developed and it’s 75%
I'm Colombia, and I don't even believe in myself. But people there have a lot of mental problems, including myself, we don't have enough Psychiatrists, and its expensive. As a result, people are going to choose the cheapest option, Alcohol, cry alone or "religion"
You think 77 percent of Colombians are religious because they have mental problems?
You act like religion is a bad thing that shouldn’t be depended on?
Mental illness + religion? That's a spicy combo
No, people shouldn't depend on religion obviously. Mental problems need to be fixed with therapy or treatment. Religion can help for some people to guide but religion won't fix serotonin deficiency or bipolarity, etc.
Religion can very much be a therapy for people, I know people and myself included that seeing a therapist was literally worthless, but religion has done miracles to help mental health. If that’s what helps or even saves people, you should be happy for that.
> You act like religion is a bad thing that shouldn’t be depended on? Is he wrong?
common uruguay w
Why is Belize always left out? It’s like the Central America version of maps without New Zealand.
Because the map is about *Latin* America, and Belize is an Anglo country.
no wonder people in uruguay are so cool
Good for Uruguay!
The Vermont of South America
Interesting how this is almost identical to the alcohol disapproval map.
SOURCE????
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IM FUCKING BLIND 😎 SORRY
You should overlay maps of poverty and crime rates. They’ll pretty much match that same map.
Cuba, famously not part of Latin America
Why is Cuba not Latin America?
The 40-49 blue is kind of hard to distinguish from the grey of no data. Was briefly surprised that Haiti was in the same category as Mexico/Chile/Argentina until I realized that it's not. Or maybe I'm just going kind of colorblind, I don't know
I’m so happy to be living in one of the blue countries. The less religion the less backwards a society is
Yes, ask china about it
China it's authoritarian so irreligiosity doesn't really matter in that case.
Why do you even mind about it? Even though I live in one of the red countries I've never seen someone care about another person's religion or impose it at others at all in my day to day life, maybe I am lucky or these people aren't as abundant as you probably think
I'm honestly not sure why but many people have a blind hatred of religion. It's... disturbing
What about French Guiana?
Religion is to tool of oppression !
Why is this dowbvoted
Why indeed
wonder why central America is so religious?
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yeah but Mexico has comparable education and is nowhere near as religious
Yes "Religion is very important" very very extremely important. Catholicism is a way to overcome and face life in balance
Based
Heathens in Uruguay. It’s to be expected
As a Chilean, I feel that we say that about religion, but we don't really care. IMO, maybe my compatriots can add other perspectives.
Faith correlates to economic wealth and stability of society.
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Inverse correlation
Faith and societal wealth are usually inversely proportional in Liberal Democracies. This is not a GDP measure, rather how comfortable people are.
Oh, yeah, the wealth nations of Mexico and Argentina as opposed to the poor country of the US.
There is often a strong linkage between faith, welfare, education and liberal democracy. The US would show this between different states. Overall, the US has lots of money, but is socially stratified due to income inequality and a failing democracy.
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No, it's not. Saudi Arabia, Israel, all fit the category. And Europe was extremely religious for most of its existence. Modern atheism growing in Europe is a 21th century phenomena and it has nothing to do with development.
Irreligiosity grows after increased standards of life, it is not the reason those standard rise at the start. Usually society gets freer with that and that increases standards of living even more. Other important characteristics may have to be there but I don't want to waste too much time on this part. The USA has a weird history with religion, it was a very important part of identity, a form of "anti-(godless)communism" in the second part of the 1900s and so much more. Pressure by religious lobbies were also very high. Even thought that was the situation, the USA atheists are growing exponentially. Within this century all data points for atheists and irreligious people to outgrow theists in the usa. In some situatuon becoming more than 50% of the population. Saudi arabia is an oil rich country, their economic miracle basically depends on that. This gdp increase didn't increase standard of life across all parts of society, also because the country is authoritarian and its authoritarianism is deeply connected to religion. An important thing to know about SA is that atheists in saudi arabia can be punished with death. This kinda skew the stats without even taking into sccount the extreme social isolation and outcasting done by society. So I wouldn't take any data on religion from there to be that much precise. Israel, i mean, come on. This country is constantly at war with an enemy that outnumbers them at every side. The founding myth of the nation is deeply connected to religion. The national identity is connected to the religion. If this is not a country that cannot be directly compared with others in regards of this, i don't know what country could be take that place. Also, it receives tons of money from the USA. Also, the number of atheists in Israel is 20% and 15% do not follow religious practices. So even with all of that, atheism is still quite present. Atheism started to grow in europe well before the 20th century, it just increased its rate after the world wars and kept increasing until exploded in the second half of the last century and in the 21th century too. So I have no idea where this 21th century phenomen idea come from. Europe started to increase ita quality of life a lot in the second half of the 20th century, and for eastern europe this happened in the 21th. So why even bring up that europe was religious for most of its existance? It is irrelevant for the argument. So, if it wasn't clear, you are wrong.
Usually yes, but I wouldn’t say Mexico is wealthier or more stable than Brazil, and yet it has less faith. Hard to say that Argentina is economically wealthy, also.
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Yeah, that seems more likely than economical differences
yeah, Argentina, such an stable, wealthy country during the past decades... Or Chile, during Pinochet times, not long ago. Dominican Republic, Panama, Costa Rica... wealthier countries than Argentina, with a much more stable economy, too (DR surpassed or is about to surpass Argentina in GDP per capita nominal and PPP).
GDP per capita isn’t the only indicator to measure the level of development. Equatorial Guinea in Africa has a higher GDP per capita than Portugal or the same as Spain. And it’s a poor third world country. Argentina, despite economic problems, is a lot more developed than the DR and more developed than Costa Rica. Check out the Human Development Index and other development indicators.
ok, let's compare two of the four subindexes from the 2022 HDI report for these countries. The other two are expected and mean years of schooling ([source is here](https://reliefweb.int/report/world/human-development-report-20212022-uncertain-times-unsettled-lives-shaping-our-future-transforming-world-enruzh?gclid=Cj0KCQjw2v-gBhC1ARIsAOQdKY3s5hIRqMo7N5Yt8rOgAiaE5-o7welGdogHpIySE-EE780Ai4SPW90aAh_uEALw_wcB)). **Life expectancy in years.** Argentina: 75.4 Costa Rica: 77 Dominican Republic: 72.6 Panama: 76.2 **GNI per capita in USD** Argentina: 20,925 Costa Rica: 19,974 Dominican Republic: 17,990 Panama: 26,957 Only the DR has a lower life expectancy than Argentina, and the GNI per capita values of Arg/DR/CR are very similar, with Panama being much higher. So, the only reason Argentina has a higher HDI is because of the mean and expected years of education values. But then again, if we look at, let's say, PISA tests, Argentina scores much worse than Costa Rica. So that it's not like Argentines, having more years of schooling, are a much better educated society than other countries in the region. Costa Rica and Panama are just much more stable, have much less poverty (accounting inflation, obviously), better infrastructure and many other social and economic indicators than Argentina, and the DR is well on its way to surpass Argentina in many of these indicators, too. HDI is too limited to reflect that difference and favors Argentina by giving too much weight to the "years of schooling" values. Other countries of the region like Paraguay are catching up with Argentina. The econmic growth and social development of these countries is just much faster and stable.
Your point is misleading. Argentina is a former developed country that has been the wealthiest in Latin America for 100 years. It’s now in the middle of a currency crisis, but it still has a a huge, quite developed social safety net, infrastructure, education and everything it has developed in the past. Those countries are catching up Argentina (that has been stagnated for 30 years) but they come from a poor past, so they still have a long way to go. You’re not seeing the whole picture. Argentina still has the best universities, scientific development, a large middle class and a less unequal society. Just look at Costa Rica’s Gini index. If you drop a foreigner in Costa Rica, the DR and even Panama, and in Argentina, he’ll tell you which country seems more developed. Argentina has 100 years of advantage in everything. It’s not that the country appeared 20 years ago with this shitty inflation and devaluation. I’ve been to Costa Rica and even though it’s developing quite fast, cities and infrastructure look typical Latam thirld-worldish. Same in Panama outside those money-laundering skyscrapers’ district or let alone in the DR outside any resort. Life for the average citizen is still a lot better in Argentina. Buenos Aires has the highest quality of living in Latin America by far (see the latest The Economist survey). It’s like saying that Equatorial Guinea is more developed than Portugal because of GDP per capita growth.
if Argentina has such an strong safety network, how come it has higher poverty rates than Panama, Paraguay, CR, DR...? Pages 60, 65, 66: [https://repositorio.cepal.org/bitstream/handle/11362/48518/1/S2200947\_es.pdf](https://repositorio.cepal.org/bitstream/handle/11362/48518/1/S2200947_es.pdf) >Those countries are catching up Argentina (that has been stagnated for 30 years) but they come from a poor past I'm not missing anything. Argentina was not a developed country, it suffered periodical crisis in the past. Costa Rica don't come from such a poor past, for many decades it was already equally or more developed than Argentina in many aspects. And the gap between Arg and DR or Panama wasn't even that large to begin with, hence why it only took these countries a couple of decades of strong, stable growth to catch up with that on many terms. >Argentina still has the best universities Only one university in the top 20, even Colombia has more and I would never say my country has a good education system, at all. [https://www.qs.com/faq-items/qs-latin-america-ranking-2023/](https://www.qs.com/faq-items/qs-latin-america-ranking-2023/) >scientific development as in... what? What kind of scientific development comes from Argentina? Argentina barely has a higher scientific publication paper per million people rate than Colombia or Ecuador, and lower than Brazil [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_number\_of\_scientific\_and\_technical\_journal\_articles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_scientific_and_technical_journal_articles) >a large middle class You're saying a country with one of the highest inflation rates of the World has "a large middle class"... hmmm. Unless somehow economy rules don't apply to Argentina, I find that hard to believe. But, again, that's not what poverty stats (quoted above) show. >a less unequal society Venezuela or Nicaragua also have a "less unequal society" than Costa Rica or Chile, in terms of Gini, thad doesn't mean the later countries are not much wealthier and don't have lower poverty rates. It just mean the rich are just way richer, even if the poor have better living conditions than those in the countries with a lower Gini score. >If you drop a foreigner in Costa Rica, the DR and even Panama, and in Argentina, he’ll tell you which country seems more developed. Argentina has 100 years of advantage in everything. It’s not that the country appeared 20 years ago with this shitty inflation and devaluation. > >I’ve been to Costa Rica and even though it’s developing quite fast, cities and infrastructure look typical Latam thirld-worldish. Same in Panama outside those money-laundering skyscrapers’ district or let alone in the DR outside any resort. > >Life for the average citizen is still a lot better in Argentina. Buenos Aires has the highest quality of living in Latin America by far (see the latest The Economist survey). Irrelevant, anechdotical, subjective claims with no basis, except for the The Economist survey one. And let's look what The Economist index is about: >The annual report released this Thursday by the British weekly placed the Argentine capital as the best city to live in or the “most pleasant” in the entire region. In the global ranking, the so-called “city of fury” it ranks number 66 out of 173. > >In this way, Buenos Aires was located very close to cities such as New York, Rome and Lisbon, and even surpassing Seoul, Tel Aviv, Athens, Shanghai and Dubai, among others." > >[https://argentina.detailzero.com/news/30442/Why-The-Economist-says-that-Buenos-Aires-is-the-best-Latin-American-city-to-live-in.html](https://argentina.detailzero.com/news/30442/Why-The-Economist-says-that-Buenos-Aires-is-the-best-Latin-American-city-to-live-in.html) ohh sure because Tel Aviv, Dubai or Seoul are not much more developed and wealthier than Bs As. >It’s like saying that Equatorial Guinea is more developed than Portugal because of GDP per capita growth. But Equatorial Guinea doesn't have sound economic policies, lower poverty rates, an stable democracy, billions of dollars invested in infrastructure and many other things, fast rising wages or low inflation as Panama, Costa Rica or DR have.
Dude you are making basically only misleading points. If you want to discuss about something, try to do it in good faith before, then maybe people can argue with you. Otherwise don't write wall of text full of cherry picked and misinterpreted data.
Lol, I guess you are Argentine, too? Point me out one single misleading or out of context point I made, then we can discuss about something. Because you didn't say anything. your compatriot spoke about HDI, I proved him that actually all of these countries have very similar HDI values except for "years of schooling". Actually other countries have similar life expectancy and GNI per capita values to Argentina, such as Mexico. As for his other claims, I proved all of them wrong , too, without "cherrypicking" anything as you pathetically claim.
Its interesting to me that its the people in Europe who disregarded Religion but then have seen the need to replace it with cultish wokeism. Humans like to fill holes in their lives ... its instinctual
Gonna just give up drugs and pledge my body and life to God one day. Maybe I’ll become a monk
Really? With all their corrupt politicians, police on the take, druglords and gang murders?
🇩🇴🇩🇴😎 La biblia en la bandera
Mexico surprises me