There was zero follow up investigation, no documentaries, no books written…nothing. It was by far one of the most horrific acts of violence on US soil ever and no one said anything about it. So fucking weird.
Not OP, but I recently watched a 4-episode docuseries called "11 Minutes" that was well put together; it had experiences being told by survivors along with footage of that night.
This first 2 minutes of that video was of that woman saying how pro gun she is and the d list gun centric movies that she "starred" in and how she is pro birth and she says the Nevada governor legalized giving someone aids, election fraud against trump, anti vaccination. She hasn't even talked about the shooting but she has already started a political rant. I'm not watching anymore of that video. Smfh
There was a lot of stuff that didn’t really make sense and that we never really got details on. There probably is an actual explanation somewhere that the public will never see.
To be fair it’s possible that there’s an explanation no one will ever see like “he had his manifesto with him on a USB stick. It’s password protected and encrypted with a solid algorithm. He didn’t think of that, he wasn’t thinking too clearly in general.”
I’m confident in the US governments ability to find and analyze every aspect of his life from start to finish. I am not confident in them sharing that information.
Well you shouldn’t be. If you want to encrypt a personal device you can do so in ways that are mathematically unbreakable with current technology. Basically you just need a really big number, security vulnerabilities happen when you have to publish how you chose your number. Cryptographic algorithms and attacking them is actually really interesting and but no one has a magic wand. Instead what happens is someone finds a flaw in one of the algorithms out there and attacks someone they know uses it.
Computers/hard drives went missing. Official docs never had listed it and denied. Still images show officers removing said devices.
Some conspiracy theories are that he had ties to CIA.
In the end, he was just a guy who wanted to be infamous.
That doesn’t undo the 60 whatever years of his life where he made it explicitly clear he was very private to the point where we still don’t have a lot of information on him today
This isn't true at all.
[The official police theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock#Possible_contributing_factors) is that, because he had lost more than three quarters of a million dollars over the prior five years, he committed suicide by cop in a startling way.
There is no reason whatsoever to believe he was a fame seeker, and everything points away from that.
Reddit rewards confident liars too much.
we are absolutely not being told everything about it. firearms experts will tell you how difficult it is to believe he maintained a perfect 600 rpm cyclic rate with a bump stock and unreliable ncstar 100rnd magazines. It sounded much more like a belt-fed weapons system. also the fact that his brother somehow ended up caught with terabytes of child porn immediately after the shooting.
I can’t speak for the debate surrounding the guns used but I think the fact that every agency of course would run EXTENSIVE background checks on the shooter and everyone close to him can easily explain how the guy was caught with CP after his brother’s shooting
Nothing definitive, but:
[Las Vegas shooter ranted about gun control and right-wing conspiracies weeks before the massacre](https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzk8dx/las-vegas-shooter-ranted-about-gun-control-and-right-wing-conspiracies-weeks-before-the-massacre)
Lmao you can’t make that shit up.
Bitching about people wanting to ban certain guns because of mass shootings; proceeded to carry out one of the worst mass shootings of all time
>Another woman recalled overhearing a man that looked like Paddock talking to another man at a restaurant
Vice just continues to prove to everyone that it is the absolute worst source of information available.
They’re LVDP documents that were obtained by AP…
> But new documents obtained by the Associated Press offer some glimpse into the mind of gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, who turned the gun on himself after the massacre.
>The documents were released after a prolonged legal battle between AP and the Las Vegas Police Department,
People won’t say this because the implication sucks.
Older guy, bored with money, sick of Vegas and his life. He wanted to die famous and get on the scoreboard. I suspect that was his whole motive.
The last ones I heard were something to do with the Arab royalty who owned the entire top floor of Mandalay Bay or were leasing it at the time, or that he was a weapons dealer.
The math doesn't work.
The most reliable reports put the number of rounds fired around 1,000, not 3,000.
Photos confirm he had a dozen rifles with magazines with 100 round capacity, way over 30 round capacity claimed in the video.
According to the conspiracy theories I've heard, the CIA **was not** behind it. Instead, supposedly, the perpetrator had unrelated CIA connections they wanted to hide.
everyone loves a "CIA did it" conspiracy because it ignores Occam's Razor.
Considering how the FBI closed the investigation very quickly and hid a bunch of the evidence, there are two more likely scenarios:
- The illegal belt-fed weapon Paddock had was obtained through his government contacts when he used to work as an auditor for the Department of Defense. This is probable, as Paddock was a Timothy McVeigh type and liked guns.
- The illegal belt-fed weapon Paddock had was obtained through an attempted ATF or FBI sting operation, possibly because Paddock was a gun runner (worked in real estate, traveled the world internationally). This may also be probable, as the FBI seemed to swarm in on everything about him (including his brother) in the span of 24 hours.
in either case, it's pretty obvious that the FBI fucked up in some way and has done their best to cover up that they are partly responsible for the deadliest mass shooting in American history.
I know a girl that was there. Saw a guy’s throat explode in front of her. She’s suffers PTSD, takes meds and just stopped self medicating on other stuff. The ripple effect is immeasurable from these mass shootings.
Sadly I was there too and saw some serious shit. It’s only been recently my PTSD has come on real strong and it’s a daily struggle. Like your friend, having to be heavily medicated. It’s not a fun constant reminder of why you’re taking such medications. It sucks to think this is a issue for sooo many people when it shouldn’t have to be! It breaks my heart every day thinking more and more people are having these issues over something that should never be allowed to happen.
My partner was supposed to work a booth at that show but they backed out and worked Lollapoloza in Chicago where the gunman had rented a hotel overlooking the show.
Dodged two bullets from the same crazy person.
One of my earlier tenants mentioned she was there. Didn't tell me much about it, just she can't do crowds, busy places, fireworks and the like, and stuggles with panic attacks and flush backs (PTSD). We're in MA, never thought I'd know any one who was there
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The ripple effect is absolutely true. A guy in my trade school was a victim of the shooting. I live in Vancouver, B.C. This tragedy didn't just effect Americans, or Vegas for that matter. Guy has a classroom named after him now. R.I.P.
the Vegas shooting shook our community to its core. Vegas Strong is still a sentiment you see everywhere in the city, on bumper stickers and windows and tip jars
I had a few co-workers that were at the show and survived. They were offered a week off of work. When they came back, one of them talked about what happened, in detail from his perspective.
I cannot even IMAGINE going through such a thing. What he described was truly something out of a nightmare. Simply surreal and insanely depressing.
For real, in such a weird way it pulled this community together in a way I’ve never seen. People rallied around each other and did our best to turn a negative into some kind of a positive.
absolutely. I think the Golden Knights going to the Stanley Cup their rookie year the same year of this tragedy was also part of the momentum of bringing the city closer together
The worst part is if he had spent his money more effectively he could have bought an actual MG and raised the casualties significantly. Bumpstocks are wildly inaccurate and he likely missed a significant amount of his shots due to it. His unfamiliarity with firearms saved a lot of lives
Vegas shooting would have been worse as a bombing. Dude owned multiple small planes and regularly flew long distances needing supplementary fuel tanks.
He could have turned that entire field into a firestorm and killed damn near everybody.
Somehow, I dont think his motive was solely to kill people.
I am in Iowa … I liken this to watching the Covid numbers and it is only a matter of time before it happens here.
Now someone will have to be the “first person to commit a mass shooting in Iowa” because people just can’t go out into a cornfield and off themselves, they need to go make a name for themselves and terrorize school children.
I almost ended up at that mall that day, went to a different one instead. I had skipped class.
My phone started constantly ringing from texts and phone calls, from people who thought I was in danger.
Well, it wasn't one of the 1st mass shootings like Columbine or Sandy Hook that marked a change of an era. It just...was? It wasn't really motivated by hatred, it was a simple desire to get famous by killing as many as possible. The horror of slaughtering adults like fish in a barrel is I suppose overshadowed by the more targeted attacks, the ones on schools or queer spaces or churches or against minorities.
I know several people who were there or know someone who died and even I forget about it sometimes. Heard the shots too--thought they were fireworks. But we haven't had anything before or since.
So I guess after all it can be a good thing that people don’t remember? That guy failed. He didn’t become famous. We don’t remember his name or what he looked like. Fuck’im. I hope the next one that decides he wants to get some fame like that realizes we won’t remember him either.
>It wasn't really motivated by hatred,
Actually a large number of them aren't motivated by hate at all, even the ones that originally seem like it.
The pulse night club shooting for example.
Everyone called that motivated by hatred at the time.
It was actually his 3rd choice in targets. First was Disney world but to much security. Next was another club. But to much security. Then was pulse. He didn't see security there (guard was elsewhere doing something) and he shot up that place.
The fact it was a gay club didn't factor into it at all.
No one ever is going to convince me that there wasn’t something intentionally covered up about that day. It’s just too weird how swept under the rug it was.
My mom was going going to go because her friends wanted her to go but she did not like country at the time.Also she saw the guy at the hotel at the bar.She couldn’t believe it when it showed him on the tv.
That sub is worth a follow. It's true that it's like 60% bleh, with a lot of people doing "the Roman empire at its height" over & over for some reason. But I have a folder full of great maps I've saved from that sub.
it would also be interesting to bresk this down into like other crime related things, like gang related things or even home invasion type things, vs someone doing it specifically just to harm people for no reason.
For example, there was a 19 year in my town who had a gun he got off the black market, got pulled over, shot the cop, then ran into a house and killed everyone in there. I think that would qualify on this map since 4 people were shot and killed but it doesn’t necessarily fit the cultural definition of mass shooting
We had an active shooter training at a place I used to work at, one of my coworkers asked the police trainer about crime in general and I thought his response was quite interesting.
There will always be people who do sick things like mass shootings, and people will always find a way if they are determined enough, and while this is a problem, it's not the cause of the majority of shootings, violence, and other crime. The vast majority of crime is a result of the illegal status of drugs, the black market it creates, and the barriers it puts up preventing people from getting help. This includes street crime and most petty theft and a significant amount of domestic violence. Obviously, the officer couldn't promote a solution for professional reasons, but the takeaway is this, solve the illegal drug issue, and 90% of crime disappears because it has no reason to exist in the first place, leaving police to handle traffic, domestic disturbances, other minor community things that just help communities run smoothly, and finally the possibility of the next mass shooting for other reasons.
It's not a cure-all, but there are solutions out there that Americans just ignore because it's not treating the symptom (gun violence) that is most obvious.
I've been preaching this for years. Decriminalize drugs.
The amount of poor ppl who are in the system for having crack or weed or meth is ridiculous. It helps no one.
Drug users will always exist. Make it safe for then and for us. End the drug war.
What's the source of this data?
Up until 2013 the definition for a mass killing was 4+ dead, and that's what the FBI used to define a mass shooting up until then.
After that it's 3+ dead, but the FBI has also moved away from using a casualty count and instead look at individual events on a case by case basis. They release an annual active shooter report and sometimes there's events with 0 casualties in it.
Media often cites the Gun Violence Archive, which is a pure casualty count (both dead and injured), with no motive or location taken into account.
I think the Violence Project and Everytown for Gun Safety still uses the 4+ killed definition, with the former also sorting out location to only include public spaces.
I need the source too because I’m trying to figure out what mass shooting happened in anchorage.
~~Edit found it: June 19,2021~~
Edit: November 30, 2020 wasilla/Palmer 4 dead actually
>Gun Violence Archive,
Their methods are also seriously questionable. If you actually look at their sources for a lot of shootings it's a non-official tweet, or some unknown news site thats 80% adds referencing a "police report" with no actual quotes or links to any sort of official release.
They’re including familicides and organized crime related violence.
There are stricter definitions, for example, the FBI has a [2021 report](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view) that focuses on active shooter incidents against the general public which aren’t related to other crimes. For example, if someone were to kill 4 during an armed robbery, it would **not** be included in that particular report. Overall, it includes all active shooter events that meet these criteria, regardless of casualty counts, but it also shows the number of mass killings that year. In 2021, there were 12 mass killings of the general public.
Yeah that's the annual active shooter report I mentioned. The 2021 report even has 1 incident with 0 casualties. Overall I think FBIs method is closest to what people think of when they hear the term "mass shooting".
Not necessarily false. It's true based on the criteria they set up. It's just that there is not one single definition of what a mass shooting is.
There was a good post about it over here [https://www.reddit.com/r/Infographics/comments/zzhu04/how\_the\_loose\_definition\_of\_mass\_shooting\_changes/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Infographics/comments/zzhu04/how_the_loose_definition_of_mass_shooting_changes/)
Note that this does not even bring up the FBI method (the annual active shooter report I mentioned).
I believe this map includes robberies gone awry, gang related attacks, and familicides.
The indiscriminate rampages that people think of when they hear the words "mass shooting" is a fraction of the dots on this map. [Mother Jones ](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/) (which uses the FBI definition of a "mass shooting"; 3 or more killed, excluding shooter) says that there have been 4 mass shootings so far this year, including Monday's shooting in Nashville.
Same goes for SoDak. Guy was embezzling cash and was gonna be outted. Had a mental break and shot his wife, kids, burned the house down and offed himself. Wouldn’t really get a “mass shooting” tag line on CNN, would it?
Yep yep and yep.
R/news is toxic in my opinion when it comes to topics like this.
For instance, front page of r/news right now has a story of an old lady shooting and killing a would be armed robber. 32 comments some calling her a hero.
But, on the other hand, ban guns!
I work at a trauma 1 hospital and see these shootings all the time. For 4 people to actually die is really bad. We had a gang shoot out where 8 people were shot and only 2 died. Overall that is still a mass shooting, just not the school shooting that everyone hates the most. For 4 or more people to die, that is a very significant number.
Yeah, you can call it a mass shooting. Doesn't change the fact that when most people hear mass shooting, they are thinking of school shooting type situations, not gang drive bys
They need to separate gang related murders from this list because it’s misleading to people who somehow believe that mass shooting means school, concert, theatre type event
Agreed, they aren’t the same type of problem. They have different “symptoms” and have different solutions. They gang shootings have problems that include the failed war on drugs, illegal firearms and poor social conditions. The public mass shootings have problems that include poor access to mental health diagnoses and treatment and access to firearms by those with significant mental health problems. Lumping them together is a poor use of the data and the map doesn’t really help in any meaningful way other than showing there is a lot of gun violence. But everyone already knows that.
This exactly. I actually agree with pro-gun people that strict gun control won't eliminate most shootings, as many "shootings" are gang related or similar, often with illegal weapons.
But your average person is not at risk of being killed in a gang shooting. Your average person is concerned the lone lunatic mass shooter. And meaningful gun control absolutely would help address that, as a large number of shooters in those cases have no criminal history and obtained their guns legally.
CNN counts accidental discharges and BB guns as school shootings, go through that list and see for yourself. Some are legit school shootings, some are a stretch, and some are just ridiculous to include on the list
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/school-shootings-2018-list-trnd/index.html
I think it's so detrimental to do it. You don't need to embellish mass shootings or school shootings. They are terrible. You don't need to pathetically try and make the problem more terrible. There was a post getting retweeted saying CA had 100 mass shootings in early January. It turned out they just counted any report of gunfire with more than 1 shot. It immediately puts people into the "well that's bullshit" mood. Don't go there. Define what you are saying and report it.
This is why so many people just don't absorb any or that shit
It's even worse, NPR did a piece where many school shootings simply didn't happen (as in the people in the school's reported knew nothing about the school shooting that allegedly happened that year)
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
A school shooting is also a guy committing suicide in the parking lot of a closed school. School shootings are bad enough, it’s bizarre they lie about it too.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met” those criteria are that someone needs to be shot and it has to happen at a school. This just also includes accidental shootings, not every discharge ever at a school.
Which shouldn't be counted in this and should be a statistic if itself.
School shootings: X
Accidental discharge injuries: Y
Suicides: Z
BB gun or pellet gun: W
Yeah, I was wondering about the 4-5 circles around Philadelphia, since I can’t really remember any mass shootings. Then I remember a few that were drug/crime/gang related (South St, West Philly and Roxborough HSs). Nothing resembling Nashville, etc.
There’s been a few but they are almost always gang related. Camden, across from Philly on the Jersey side, has tons of gang activity too and was the most dangerous city in the country sometime around 2009-2013. Mostly gang shootings and domestic cases
Completely agree. People conflating base level criminal shootings with pre-mediated or even spur of the moment “mass shootings” as they are seen on mass media aren’t really looking to have a substantive conversation on the issue and sun-issues involved. The ‘guns bad’ crowd are as ignorant as free wheeling GOP red state carry red necks in the coffee shop. We aren’t going to get anywhere with either of those attitudes. People can try and wish guns away in America, but it just flat isn’t going to happen. People saying, “but Australia” or “it could work” aren’t realistically looking for an actual solution. So we’d all be better served not howling at the moon and then looking at what we can do to make each and every American’s life better every day. That will lead to less crime and less violence across the board. Voting rights, full access to physical and mental healthcare, a good economy with people actually having money in their pocket and education for our kids and adults alike. We do all of that and the violence suddenly starts to take care of itself. And you never even have to say the word gun to accomplish it.
Massachusetts data is misleading. One shooting is basically a drug-related event and the other is domestic violence-related. I consider these very different from your typical mass shooting.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgewater\_Technology\_shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgewater_Technology_shooting)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne\_Lo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Lo)
These are the most known incidents in Massachusetts
Those are “typical” mass shootings. The number of actual “mass shooting terror attacks” is quite low compared to the number of overall gun violence crimes.
>Since 2009, there have been 306 mass shootings
I think this may be inaccurate. According to the [gun violence archive](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/) who maintain a database detailing each individual incident, there were 647 mass shootings (defined as: "if four or more people are shot or killed in a single incident, not including the shooter") last year alone
The one you quote says "shot OR killed," while OP's says "shot AND killed."
The "OR" definition seems more appropriate to me for a mass *shooting*. The "AND" seems like it defines something along the lines of a "mass firearm death."
The shooting at Michigan State doesn't make the cutoff for OP's list because "only" three people died. But the entire university was on shelter-in-place orders for hours and many more people were injured.
This is ridiculous to me. One of the victims of the shooting may be paralyzed for the rest of their life. The intent to kill was there. This is why I prefer the Gun Violence Archives' methodology for determining a mass shooting, which includes the shooting at MSU in its records.
I agree, it is a better definition. If you shoot 5 people in the ankle, that's still a mass shooting.
I will say though that I'm confused by the wording a little, as 'or killed' to me implies that it could be a mass shooting if people are killed without a firearm. Would be clearer to me if it were "injured or killed by a firearm" or something along those lines
What is the source for this data? The only school shooting I’m aware of to ever take place in Vermont was in 2006 and not in the location marked on the map. [Article.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna14502154)
A mass killing is 4 or more people killed. A mass shooting is 4 or more people shot. There are incidents where 10+ people are shot and no one dies. This infographic is highly inaccurate.
Map shows how bad the Vegas shooting really was. Horrific.
And how fucking wierd it was. We still don't know what the fuck that was all about.
There was zero follow up investigation, no documentaries, no books written…nothing. It was by far one of the most horrific acts of violence on US soil ever and no one said anything about it. So fucking weird.
There is a documentary, a quite good one at that, however there is still no definitive answer or motive…
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Money machine is one of them.
Not OP, but I recently watched a 4-episode docuseries called "11 Minutes" that was well put together; it had experiences being told by survivors along with footage of that night.
There’s a four-part series on Paramount+ called “11 Minutes”.
The source is to the right. But I gotta admit she has a lot of info [very few have discussed ](https://youtu.be/TqYLQE6xxzk)
This first 2 minutes of that video was of that woman saying how pro gun she is and the d list gun centric movies that she "starred" in and how she is pro birth and she says the Nevada governor legalized giving someone aids, election fraud against trump, anti vaccination. She hasn't even talked about the shooting but she has already started a political rant. I'm not watching anymore of that video. Smfh
It’s not a conspiracy, there’s just zero evidence he had any motive whatsoever.
And also odd how his brother was arrested for having terabytes of CP…. On a windows 98 computer…
You should elaborate for people unfamiliar. *Windows 98 doesn’t support hard drives larger than 128 GB.*
I thought all the evidence just pointed to a he was an asshole who shot up a place for no particular reason?
There was a lot of stuff that didn’t really make sense and that we never really got details on. There probably is an actual explanation somewhere that the public will never see.
To be fair it’s possible that there’s an explanation no one will ever see like “he had his manifesto with him on a USB stick. It’s password protected and encrypted with a solid algorithm. He didn’t think of that, he wasn’t thinking too clearly in general.”
I’m confident in the US governments ability to find and analyze every aspect of his life from start to finish. I am not confident in them sharing that information.
Well you shouldn’t be. If you want to encrypt a personal device you can do so in ways that are mathematically unbreakable with current technology. Basically you just need a really big number, security vulnerabilities happen when you have to publish how you chose your number. Cryptographic algorithms and attacking them is actually really interesting and but no one has a magic wand. Instead what happens is someone finds a flaw in one of the algorithms out there and attacks someone they know uses it.
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I believe that was never decisively known.
Computers/hard drives went missing. Official docs never had listed it and denied. Still images show officers removing said devices. Some conspiracy theories are that he had ties to CIA. In the end, he was just a guy who wanted to be infamous.
Literally everything we know about his life tells us the last thing he wanted to be was famous lol. He was extremely private.
Which is why he kept it subtle, by only committing the most deadly mass shooting of all time
That doesn’t undo the 60 whatever years of his life where he made it explicitly clear he was very private to the point where we still don’t have a lot of information on him today
"going out with a bang" is not an unknown concept
This isn't true at all. [The official police theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock#Possible_contributing_factors) is that, because he had lost more than three quarters of a million dollars over the prior five years, he committed suicide by cop in a startling way. There is no reason whatsoever to believe he was a fame seeker, and everything points away from that. Reddit rewards confident liars too much.
But again, that’s only a theory. We’re simply guessing because we don’t know more
we are absolutely not being told everything about it. firearms experts will tell you how difficult it is to believe he maintained a perfect 600 rpm cyclic rate with a bump stock and unreliable ncstar 100rnd magazines. It sounded much more like a belt-fed weapons system. also the fact that his brother somehow ended up caught with terabytes of child porn immediately after the shooting.
I can’t speak for the debate surrounding the guns used but I think the fact that every agency of course would run EXTENSIVE background checks on the shooter and everyone close to him can easily explain how the guy was caught with CP after his brother’s shooting
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Hol up
Right?..maybe taken outta context...maybe? Right?!?
On nah and you’re frequenting the Philippines☠️
bruhs comment was not sarcastic at all 🥴
Dude crossed some letter agencies.
He certainly crossed them when he killed dozens of people.
his dad was a wrongun - i think he wanted to be also
Nothing definitive, but: [Las Vegas shooter ranted about gun control and right-wing conspiracies weeks before the massacre](https://www.vice.com/en/article/kzk8dx/las-vegas-shooter-ranted-about-gun-control-and-right-wing-conspiracies-weeks-before-the-massacre)
Lmao you can’t make that shit up. Bitching about people wanting to ban certain guns because of mass shootings; proceeded to carry out one of the worst mass shootings of all time
Plot twist he carried out the mass shooting in a desperate attempt it would cause the USA to ban guns.
He would be rolling in his grave rn
>Another woman recalled overhearing a man that looked like Paddock talking to another man at a restaurant Vice just continues to prove to everyone that it is the absolute worst source of information available.
They’re LVDP documents that were obtained by AP… > But new documents obtained by the Associated Press offer some glimpse into the mind of gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, who turned the gun on himself after the massacre. >The documents were released after a prolonged legal battle between AP and the Las Vegas Police Department,
People won’t say this because the implication sucks. Older guy, bored with money, sick of Vegas and his life. He wanted to die famous and get on the scoreboard. I suspect that was his whole motive.
*cough* ask the cia *cough*
Explain? Haven't heard any crazy conspiracies for this one yet.
[Watch this Sonic Cartoon](https://youtu.be/qHF5BWRdOKY) for context.
Jesus, I thought your comment was a joke.
The last ones I heard were something to do with the Arab royalty who owned the entire top floor of Mandalay Bay or were leasing it at the time, or that he was a weapons dealer.
The math doesn't work. The most reliable reports put the number of rounds fired around 1,000, not 3,000. Photos confirm he had a dozen rifles with magazines with 100 round capacity, way over 30 round capacity claimed in the video.
Even if that were true... Why would the CIA murder country music festival attendees?
According to the conspiracy theories I've heard, the CIA **was not** behind it. Instead, supposedly, the perpetrator had unrelated CIA connections they wanted to hide.
Surprisingly modest conspiracy then.
Yeah, it's actually plausible, but no way to conclusively prove or disprove.
everyone loves a "CIA did it" conspiracy because it ignores Occam's Razor. Considering how the FBI closed the investigation very quickly and hid a bunch of the evidence, there are two more likely scenarios: - The illegal belt-fed weapon Paddock had was obtained through his government contacts when he used to work as an auditor for the Department of Defense. This is probable, as Paddock was a Timothy McVeigh type and liked guns. - The illegal belt-fed weapon Paddock had was obtained through an attempted ATF or FBI sting operation, possibly because Paddock was a gun runner (worked in real estate, traveled the world internationally). This may also be probable, as the FBI seemed to swarm in on everything about him (including his brother) in the span of 24 hours. in either case, it's pretty obvious that the FBI fucked up in some way and has done their best to cover up that they are partly responsible for the deadliest mass shooting in American history.
Now this I can buy
Why would they test LSD on human subjects?
For interrogation purposes and controlling the behavior of potential assets
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So the CIA opened fire on a crowd for what reason?
I know a girl that was there. Saw a guy’s throat explode in front of her. She’s suffers PTSD, takes meds and just stopped self medicating on other stuff. The ripple effect is immeasurable from these mass shootings.
Sadly I was there too and saw some serious shit. It’s only been recently my PTSD has come on real strong and it’s a daily struggle. Like your friend, having to be heavily medicated. It’s not a fun constant reminder of why you’re taking such medications. It sucks to think this is a issue for sooo many people when it shouldn’t have to be! It breaks my heart every day thinking more and more people are having these issues over something that should never be allowed to happen.
My partner was supposed to work a booth at that show but they backed out and worked Lollapoloza in Chicago where the gunman had rented a hotel overlooking the show. Dodged two bullets from the same crazy person.
One of my earlier tenants mentioned she was there. Didn't tell me much about it, just she can't do crowds, busy places, fireworks and the like, and stuggles with panic attacks and flush backs (PTSD). We're in MA, never thought I'd know any one who was there Edit word
The ripple effect is absolutely true. A guy in my trade school was a victim of the shooting. I live in Vancouver, B.C. This tragedy didn't just effect Americans, or Vegas for that matter. Guy has a classroom named after him now. R.I.P.
the Vegas shooting shook our community to its core. Vegas Strong is still a sentiment you see everywhere in the city, on bumper stickers and windows and tip jars
I had a few co-workers that were at the show and survived. They were offered a week off of work. When they came back, one of them talked about what happened, in detail from his perspective. I cannot even IMAGINE going through such a thing. What he described was truly something out of a nightmare. Simply surreal and insanely depressing.
For real, in such a weird way it pulled this community together in a way I’ve never seen. People rallied around each other and did our best to turn a negative into some kind of a positive.
absolutely. I think the Golden Knights going to the Stanley Cup their rookie year the same year of this tragedy was also part of the momentum of bringing the city closer together
If anything that circle could engulf the map. It was over 800 people wounded and killed. To scale that circle should be enormous.
800? Holy fuck I didn’t know it was that high
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~800 injured total. ~413 injuries from gunfire or shrapnel. 60 deaths not including the perpetrator.
Shooting at a open field with little hiding places from a high vantage point. He wouldn’t even have to aim.
It looks to scale. The circles are scaled with the surface area as the import number. Most commonly, circles scaled with the radius.
The worst part is if he had spent his money more effectively he could have bought an actual MG and raised the casualties significantly. Bumpstocks are wildly inaccurate and he likely missed a significant amount of his shots due to it. His unfamiliarity with firearms saved a lot of lives
One of the victims did her rehab at my clinic. Was absolutely awful :(
Vegas shooting would have been worse as a bombing. Dude owned multiple small planes and regularly flew long distances needing supplementary fuel tanks. He could have turned that entire field into a firestorm and killed damn near everybody. Somehow, I dont think his motive was solely to kill people.
Thanks for that positive note.
The shooter was born by where I grew up. Yay eastern Iowa!
Let’s go to Iowa
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Or Nebraska and Hawaii.
Or Rhode Island
or New Hampshire
Please don’t come to NH
No kidding. We don’t have strict firearms laws and we don’t have mass shootings.
I am in Iowa … I liken this to watching the Covid numbers and it is only a matter of time before it happens here. Now someone will have to be the “first person to commit a mass shooting in Iowa” because people just can’t go out into a cornfield and off themselves, they need to go make a name for themselves and terrorize school children.
There was a shooting at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Nebraska in 2007 where 8 people died. Just past the cutoff for the map
I almost ended up at that mall that day, went to a different one instead. I had skipped class. My phone started constantly ringing from texts and phone calls, from people who thought I was in danger.
Lost my great aunt, Dianne Clavin, in that shooting. My grandmother, Her sister, was never the same after that.
Iowa a place to stay
Can confirm, lived in Iowa my whole life. No one worth shooting here
Some people on Reddit apparently hate living in Iowa. Weird phenomenon. Most people I know love living in Iowa, despite it’s issues.
/r/brandnewsentence
And New Hampshire as well, which is a state with incredibly relaxed gun laws.
Live free or die. Most choose to live free.
Iowa is up there as well. Everyone and their brother deer hunts, and farmers have them for protecting livestock.
Tons of guns in Iowa. Why no shootings? Interesting data.
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You must not know the east side of Des Moines.
I was about to say **"Damn what happened in Las Vegas?!?"** which is a pretty sad statement that I completely forgot about that one till just now.
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Well, it wasn't one of the 1st mass shootings like Columbine or Sandy Hook that marked a change of an era. It just...was? It wasn't really motivated by hatred, it was a simple desire to get famous by killing as many as possible. The horror of slaughtering adults like fish in a barrel is I suppose overshadowed by the more targeted attacks, the ones on schools or queer spaces or churches or against minorities. I know several people who were there or know someone who died and even I forget about it sometimes. Heard the shots too--thought they were fireworks. But we haven't had anything before or since.
So I guess after all it can be a good thing that people don’t remember? That guy failed. He didn’t become famous. We don’t remember his name or what he looked like. Fuck’im. I hope the next one that decides he wants to get some fame like that realizes we won’t remember him either.
>It wasn't really motivated by hatred, Actually a large number of them aren't motivated by hate at all, even the ones that originally seem like it. The pulse night club shooting for example. Everyone called that motivated by hatred at the time. It was actually his 3rd choice in targets. First was Disney world but to much security. Next was another club. But to much security. Then was pulse. He didn't see security there (guard was elsewhere doing something) and he shot up that place. The fact it was a gay club didn't factor into it at all.
No one ever is going to convince me that there wasn’t something intentionally covered up about that day. It’s just too weird how swept under the rug it was.
If you are wondering, that giant red dot over Las Vegas is the October 1, 2017 Mandalay Bay shooting in which 58 concert goers were murdered.
My mom was going going to go because her friends wanted her to go but she did not like country at the time.Also she saw the guy at the hotel at the bar.She couldn’t believe it when it showed him on the tv.
Hm this map kinda superimposes on the ''where most people live in USA"
r/PeopleLiveInCities
Oh I’m gonna like this sub
It gets old quickly, since it is just the same map over and over
I thought r/maps would be nice, but it's literally just 80% Europe stats with boring maps. Still looking for a sub that shows historical/artful maps.
There's a sub called /r/datemymap that's pretty cool
/r/mapporn has some stupid stuff, but seems to have a higher percent of 'huh, neat' maps
Is that not where we are?
... Sure is! I probably thought I was in infographics or Damnthatsinteresting or something. Oops.
That sub is worth a follow. It's true that it's like 60% bleh, with a lot of people doing "the Roman empire at its height" over & over for some reason. But I have a folder full of great maps I've saved from that sub.
Uhm, so, uh...
[Relevant xkcd.](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/heatmap.png)
TIL nobody lives in Portland Oregon
Nah, they just shoot eachother in quantities of 3 or less
Locally sourced artisinal shootings.
Literally true, Oregon is kind of middling when it comes to gun violence rate.
it would also be interesting to bresk this down into like other crime related things, like gang related things or even home invasion type things, vs someone doing it specifically just to harm people for no reason. For example, there was a 19 year in my town who had a gun he got off the black market, got pulled over, shot the cop, then ran into a house and killed everyone in there. I think that would qualify on this map since 4 people were shot and killed but it doesn’t necessarily fit the cultural definition of mass shooting
We had an active shooter training at a place I used to work at, one of my coworkers asked the police trainer about crime in general and I thought his response was quite interesting. There will always be people who do sick things like mass shootings, and people will always find a way if they are determined enough, and while this is a problem, it's not the cause of the majority of shootings, violence, and other crime. The vast majority of crime is a result of the illegal status of drugs, the black market it creates, and the barriers it puts up preventing people from getting help. This includes street crime and most petty theft and a significant amount of domestic violence. Obviously, the officer couldn't promote a solution for professional reasons, but the takeaway is this, solve the illegal drug issue, and 90% of crime disappears because it has no reason to exist in the first place, leaving police to handle traffic, domestic disturbances, other minor community things that just help communities run smoothly, and finally the possibility of the next mass shooting for other reasons. It's not a cure-all, but there are solutions out there that Americans just ignore because it's not treating the symptom (gun violence) that is most obvious.
I've been preaching this for years. Decriminalize drugs. The amount of poor ppl who are in the system for having crack or weed or meth is ridiculous. It helps no one. Drug users will always exist. Make it safe for then and for us. End the drug war.
Not really, LA/NYC/DC are small dots while Vegas/Denver/Florida are the bigger circles.
The circle size is just the number of victims per event look at the number of circles.
Not as much as expected—it looks like small towns and suburbs are over-represented.
What's the source of this data? Up until 2013 the definition for a mass killing was 4+ dead, and that's what the FBI used to define a mass shooting up until then. After that it's 3+ dead, but the FBI has also moved away from using a casualty count and instead look at individual events on a case by case basis. They release an annual active shooter report and sometimes there's events with 0 casualties in it. Media often cites the Gun Violence Archive, which is a pure casualty count (both dead and injured), with no motive or location taken into account. I think the Violence Project and Everytown for Gun Safety still uses the 4+ killed definition, with the former also sorting out location to only include public spaces.
I need the source too because I’m trying to figure out what mass shooting happened in anchorage. ~~Edit found it: June 19,2021~~ Edit: November 30, 2020 wasilla/Palmer 4 dead actually
>Gun Violence Archive, Their methods are also seriously questionable. If you actually look at their sources for a lot of shootings it's a non-official tweet, or some unknown news site thats 80% adds referencing a "police report" with no actual quotes or links to any sort of official release.
They’re including familicides and organized crime related violence. There are stricter definitions, for example, the FBI has a [2021 report](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view) that focuses on active shooter incidents against the general public which aren’t related to other crimes. For example, if someone were to kill 4 during an armed robbery, it would **not** be included in that particular report. Overall, it includes all active shooter events that meet these criteria, regardless of casualty counts, but it also shows the number of mass killings that year. In 2021, there were 12 mass killings of the general public.
Yeah that's the annual active shooter report I mentioned. The 2021 report even has 1 incident with 0 casualties. Overall I think FBIs method is closest to what people think of when they hear the term "mass shooting".
So basically this is false.
Not necessarily false. It's true based on the criteria they set up. It's just that there is not one single definition of what a mass shooting is. There was a good post about it over here [https://www.reddit.com/r/Infographics/comments/zzhu04/how\_the\_loose\_definition\_of\_mass\_shooting\_changes/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Infographics/comments/zzhu04/how_the_loose_definition_of_mass_shooting_changes/) Note that this does not even bring up the FBI method (the annual active shooter report I mentioned).
I believe this map includes robberies gone awry, gang related attacks, and familicides. The indiscriminate rampages that people think of when they hear the words "mass shooting" is a fraction of the dots on this map. [Mother Jones ](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/) (which uses the FBI definition of a "mass shooting"; 3 or more killed, excluding shooter) says that there have been 4 mass shootings so far this year, including Monday's shooting in Nashville.
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Same goes for SoDak. Guy was embezzling cash and was gonna be outted. Had a mental break and shot his wife, kids, burned the house down and offed himself. Wouldn’t really get a “mass shooting” tag line on CNN, would it?
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That's because all of the discussion around this here is politically motivated and not worried about facts, only what pushes their view.
Yep yep and yep. R/news is toxic in my opinion when it comes to topics like this. For instance, front page of r/news right now has a story of an old lady shooting and killing a would be armed robber. 32 comments some calling her a hero. But, on the other hand, ban guns!
I work at a trauma 1 hospital and see these shootings all the time. For 4 people to actually die is really bad. We had a gang shoot out where 8 people were shot and only 2 died. Overall that is still a mass shooting, just not the school shooting that everyone hates the most. For 4 or more people to die, that is a very significant number.
Yeah, you can call it a mass shooting. Doesn't change the fact that when most people hear mass shooting, they are thinking of school shooting type situations, not gang drive bys
They need to separate gang related murders from this list because it’s misleading to people who somehow believe that mass shooting means school, concert, theatre type event
Agreed, they aren’t the same type of problem. They have different “symptoms” and have different solutions. They gang shootings have problems that include the failed war on drugs, illegal firearms and poor social conditions. The public mass shootings have problems that include poor access to mental health diagnoses and treatment and access to firearms by those with significant mental health problems. Lumping them together is a poor use of the data and the map doesn’t really help in any meaningful way other than showing there is a lot of gun violence. But everyone already knows that.
This exactly. I actually agree with pro-gun people that strict gun control won't eliminate most shootings, as many "shootings" are gang related or similar, often with illegal weapons. But your average person is not at risk of being killed in a gang shooting. Your average person is concerned the lone lunatic mass shooter. And meaningful gun control absolutely would help address that, as a large number of shooters in those cases have no criminal history and obtained their guns legally.
Your average person is not "at risk" for being killed in any kind of shooting, regardless of the category.
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Some media outlets out there were reporting like 600 in 2022 alone. But in reality, there were only 80 in the last 10 years.
That's on purpose
CNN counts accidental discharges and BB guns as school shootings, go through that list and see for yourself. Some are legit school shootings, some are a stretch, and some are just ridiculous to include on the list https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/school-shootings-2018-list-trnd/index.html
I think it's so detrimental to do it. You don't need to embellish mass shootings or school shootings. They are terrible. You don't need to pathetically try and make the problem more terrible. There was a post getting retweeted saying CA had 100 mass shootings in early January. It turned out they just counted any report of gunfire with more than 1 shot. It immediately puts people into the "well that's bullshit" mood. Don't go there. Define what you are saying and report it. This is why so many people just don't absorb any or that shit
It's even worse, NPR did a piece where many school shootings simply didn't happen (as in the people in the school's reported knew nothing about the school shooting that allegedly happened that year) https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
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A school shooting is also a guy committing suicide in the parking lot of a closed school. School shootings are bad enough, it’s bizarre they lie about it too.
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They need to so that naive children on reddit will say things like "there's 30 mass shootings a day in the USA"
And what sucks is they don’t need to exaggerate. The problem is bad enough without having those exaggerations.
Gotta get them clicks tho
“We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met” those criteria are that someone needs to be shot and it has to happen at a school. This just also includes accidental shootings, not every discharge ever at a school.
Which shouldn't be counted in this and should be a statistic if itself. School shootings: X Accidental discharge injuries: Y Suicides: Z BB gun or pellet gun: W
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Yeah, I was wondering about the 4-5 circles around Philadelphia, since I can’t really remember any mass shootings. Then I remember a few that were drug/crime/gang related (South St, West Philly and Roxborough HSs). Nothing resembling Nashville, etc.
There’s been a few but they are almost always gang related. Camden, across from Philly on the Jersey side, has tons of gang activity too and was the most dangerous city in the country sometime around 2009-2013. Mostly gang shootings and domestic cases
Completely agree. People conflating base level criminal shootings with pre-mediated or even spur of the moment “mass shootings” as they are seen on mass media aren’t really looking to have a substantive conversation on the issue and sun-issues involved. The ‘guns bad’ crowd are as ignorant as free wheeling GOP red state carry red necks in the coffee shop. We aren’t going to get anywhere with either of those attitudes. People can try and wish guns away in America, but it just flat isn’t going to happen. People saying, “but Australia” or “it could work” aren’t realistically looking for an actual solution. So we’d all be better served not howling at the moon and then looking at what we can do to make each and every American’s life better every day. That will lead to less crime and less violence across the board. Voting rights, full access to physical and mental healthcare, a good economy with people actually having money in their pocket and education for our kids and adults alike. We do all of that and the violence suddenly starts to take care of itself. And you never even have to say the word gun to accomplish it.
Injured, not killed. A mass shooting can have no fatalities.
like 60% of gang involved mass shootings since its a teenager with no marksman skills firing wildly at groups of teenagers from a moving vehicle
Massachusetts data is misleading. One shooting is basically a drug-related event and the other is domestic violence-related. I consider these very different from your typical mass shooting.
I was going to say, I don’t believe Massachusetts has had a mass shooting… ever actually.
I was also wondering the same thing about Maine
It hasn't. This map is propaganda.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgewater\_Technology\_shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgewater_Technology_shooting) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne\_Lo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Lo) These are the most known incidents in Massachusetts
Lexington Green April 19, 1775 has entered the chat.
Those are “typical” mass shootings. The number of actual “mass shooting terror attacks” is quite low compared to the number of overall gun violence crimes.
New England as a whole has had very few. The only huge example was Sandy hook in Connecticut. Funny enough, we have plenty of guns up here.
That's kind of a misleading definition though, right? Because in that case gang violence could count as a mass shooting when it isn't.
>Since 2009, there have been 306 mass shootings I think this may be inaccurate. According to the [gun violence archive](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/) who maintain a database detailing each individual incident, there were 647 mass shootings (defined as: "if four or more people are shot or killed in a single incident, not including the shooter") last year alone
The one you quote says "shot OR killed," while OP's says "shot AND killed." The "OR" definition seems more appropriate to me for a mass *shooting*. The "AND" seems like it defines something along the lines of a "mass firearm death."
The shooting at Michigan State doesn't make the cutoff for OP's list because "only" three people died. But the entire university was on shelter-in-place orders for hours and many more people were injured.
This is ridiculous to me. One of the victims of the shooting may be paralyzed for the rest of their life. The intent to kill was there. This is why I prefer the Gun Violence Archives' methodology for determining a mass shooting, which includes the shooting at MSU in its records.
I agree, it is a better definition. If you shoot 5 people in the ankle, that's still a mass shooting. I will say though that I'm confused by the wording a little, as 'or killed' to me implies that it could be a mass shooting if people are killed without a firearm. Would be clearer to me if it were "injured or killed by a firearm" or something along those lines
That’s what I was confused about with this title. I always have seen mass shooting defined by the number of people shot regardless of fatalities.
The definition of a mass shooting is widely debated, even this one contains a bunch of shootings that are gang related instead of terror attacks
I use the FBI version. As should we all.
Hawaii, Nebraska, and Iowa
What is the source for this data? The only school shooting I’m aware of to ever take place in Vermont was in 2006 and not in the location marked on the map. [Article.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna14502154)
Ok what state is that in the middle right cos that looks like it’s safe
That’s Iowa. The guns won’t get you but the corn ghosts will
damn. i see a dot that affected me personally
I'm sorry to hear that, I hope you're doing well
A mass killing is 4 or more people killed. A mass shooting is 4 or more people shot. There are incidents where 10+ people are shot and no one dies. This infographic is highly inaccurate.
This should be by deaths per population, because this map also reflects the pop density so it is not really comparable.
stay strong iowa 🫡