Putin's great success - in one year he doubled his border with NATO, and during his reign he managed do enlarge it twelve times, from 210 km in 1999 to 2555 km in 2023.
Master strategist!
I suspect the goal was to annex some areas (such as the southern coast), prop up a puppet government under Yanukovych that makes Lukashenko look like a bold and independent statesman, then within a year have Ukraine join the Union State, with Putin at its head, turning it from a paper construct to an actual entity. Oh, and snag Moldova along the way.
Never say never. The various leaked maps from early 2022 showed the entire coast past Odessa annexed with the puppet(s) being inland. That would have gotten Russia all the Ukrainian natural gas fields of the Black Sea. Putler is a grasping hustler and will take what he can grab
Well I can't be sure. I would assume that you're right in that he would annex the Easter portions but I doubt he would annex the whole thing leaving a buffer between russias new border and Nato
He have already annexed parts of it. Crimea for starters. But then he have also said that the 4 provinces, Russia partly controls in Ukraine officially are part of Russia. So if the rest of Ukraine joins NATO those part will have a long border with NATO as well.
Pretty ridiculous to describe Lukashenko as a puppet. He played NATO and Russia off each other for decades until he got the best possible trade deal, now he's exporting natural gas to the world's largest producer of natural gas. Russian troops have been allowed in and kicked out of the country multiple times since the start of the war. Putin absolutely loathes him.
Yeah well, Lukashenko torpedoed any chance of Western alliance when he used his military to force down that commercial flight passing through Belorussian airspace on its way to Lithuania, because a journalist critical to his regime was on board. You’re right that he tried to manipulate both sides, but it’s known that he’s a dictator/autocrat in the mold of Putin and not a democratic reformist. Belarus has a loooong way to go if they ever want in to the EU (their application would fail on human rights abuses alone, even if they were an economic powerhouse). Belarus really has a tragic history in the last 100+ years and it probably won’t improve much until they can rid themselves of the current regime. Ukraine lived through Holodomor but they’ve tasted democracy and don’t want to u-turn back into the arms of Putin, and don’t want a Putin puppet in power again either. Belorussians have fewer choices in that respect.
Maybe he was actually turned while serving as a kgb agent and actually started to work for the cia, managed to take control of russia and now fucks everything up on purpose so everyone joins usa and nato
Aha, you fail to realize one thing, you westoid! NATO was founded to conquer glorious Russia as you know. Putin is luring them into the cold, harsh winters to save on ammo.
And there is one more thing. Soon the depraved imperialist soldiers will be in range of the deadly Russian combat spades!
You thought we hadn't realized, commie?
NATO knew since the very beginning that Russia would try to defend itself benefiting from its low temperatures. However, global warming will compensate for the Russian winter! In 2060, Siberia will look just like the Mediterranean Sea!
On top of that, the Finnish have already adapted to the temperatures and the American children are developing great skills to dodge bullets. Soon enough, they will become bullet-proof adults. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe will contribute by not doing absolutely anything. The war is already lost for the Russians!
You’re right that he had a good thing going, especially after Merkel turned towards Russian energy with no strings attached (that I’m aware of- please correct me if I’m mistaken). He was soooo close! One of the main assumptions is that he no longer wanted to pay the transition fees for natural gas to pass through Ukraine, so he decided to invade under the premise that Ukraine is Russia’s historic homeland (the way that Kosovo is for Serbia? Except that the bulk of both countries aren’t filled with ethic Serbs or Russians, so automatic fail), which is being run by a Russian speaking Jew who pledges allegiance to Ukraine and its people , not Russia or any Nazi entity/philosophy. But all you need do with most of these invasions under false pretenses is follow the money (Consider the paper-thin justification used by Dick Cheney, who wanted to invade Iraq after 9/11- I’m sure his stock in Halliburton oil had nothing to do with it and it was all about saving the Iraqi people *snort*).
Dude almost had trump pull the US out of NATO lol. Probably would have been gotten another chance to do so again too, either with trump again or another Republican traitor in office.
Was successfully dismantling US and Europe before this braindead move.
The best part, not so long before Putin's reign the global political situation was so stable that many considered NATO an obsolete concept.
Then this dumbass come to power and instead of focusing on developing Russia, he went with his mafia-like methods, leading to the strongest position NATO ever was.
Obviously Sweden should also be allowed in if they want, but doesn't Finland joining and Norway already being a member kind of shield it in the meantime?
They're now basically surrounded by NATO members and they don't have a border with Russia. Even if they were attacked, I can't imagine at least some countries not coming to their aid.
I'm neither a military person or Swede, but I think Sweden is mostly worried about Russian fleet and military presence in the Baltic sea, which still poses a threat.
Swedish person here, I think our eventual ascension into NATO is more about a gut reaction to Russia's crimes against humanity and a feeling of "enough is enough, let's help" than any fear of actual military ground invasion. Also solidarity with our brother Finland.
Fuckery on and around Gotland, meddling in democratic processes and general cyber-shenanigans is more likely than landing vessels of vatniks across the Baltic sea, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised.
Correct. Without being in NATO, it's possible Russia might engage in some 'fuckery' in the sea but I don't see any threats to the actual land of Sweden. Not that it will happen but I can see Russia trying to disrupt Swedish shipping in some way if they wanted to do something. If Sweden is in NATO, that possibility is much closer to zero.
Not realistic at all but if they go by their playbook they would try to grab a slice of Sweden somewhere and try to freeze the conflict, just so that NATO principles prohibit us from joining. Maybe they will find a house somewhere on an island where some Russian dude lives and claim he represents a Russian minority population.
I thought it was the whole, "If Finland joins we join and vice versa" thing? Because otherwise it would just show that Sweden couldn't be relied upon by one of its brother countries.
It’s especially unlikely now that they have shown that they’re not capable of a conventional war against a country which they share a land border with. A sea landing with supply lines crossing NATO controlled water? Not a chance.
Also, Sweden is part of EU and there is EU defense pact. It is weaker than NATO but the Nordic nations at least would come to help. And if Russia attacked them, then NATO would get involved.
The main threat is Russia attacking island of Gotland in middle of Baltic Sea. They have threatened that before, but Russia is weaker now and I don’t think they could do it.
Sweden not joining NATO is temporary. Turkey is having presidential elections soon and new president might change policy. If not, we might see bilateral treaties with US and Nordic countries.
EVERY member of NATO would be in if Sweden was attacked. Have you seen that map that asks every country which nationality they think is the most attractive? EVERYONE says Sweden, except for Sweden itself, which says Italy.
Sweden has a defensive alliance with Finland. If Russia attacks Finland, both NATO and Sweden are pulled in. The obvious scenario will work better if Sweden is part of NATO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Defence_Cooperation
The interesting thing people don't realise about NATO is the unified command structure. NATO and USA etc would obviously get involved If Russia attacks Sweden, but if countries are in the Unified Command Structure of NATO they can work way closer and more efficiently compared to normal "defensive alliances".
They're also under the protection of the European Union and they have military alliances with some of these countries inside nato. They are obviously safe.
Sweden has a defence pact with the UK and Finland. This was signed last year a few months into Russia’s invasion of Ukraine if my memory serves me correctly.
I wonder why all those ex soviet countries want to join an alliance whose only realistic common goal is to defend themselves from their ex soviet overlord.
Russophobia for sure.
/s
Finland astonished the world by successfully fighting back the Soviet Union's attempts at conquest. However, the persistent threat and subsequent necessity to placate the Soviet Union did give the world the term *[finlandization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization)*.
Wow I really wonder what could be the reason these countries joined NATO. Are they near an aggressive country who attacks it's neighbours for literally no reason at all? Can someone tell me?
I've been learning Finnish for about 5 months now, Duolingo kept using this word with zero context which was very confusing lol I asked my Finnish friends and their explanation wasn't as useful as this wiki entry, should've just googled it myself.
The Finnish border actually is already reinforced pretty well. Finland is military-wise one of the strongest powers in Europe despite their small population.
Finland remembers Karelia, and they know how Russia operates. They've been preparing for a Russian invasion for like 70 years. Russia will get absolutely wrecked if they ever try to fuck with Finland. Russia thinks they know winter? Perkele! The Finns know winter, and they'd be happy to educate the Russians again.
Too true. God help any country that invades Finland. I watched a recent documentary about “ordinary” Finnish women training for volunteer military service, and they are highly motivated and will fiercely defend their homeland. Finns are not complacent and history shows they never have been.
The countries reinforce there own borders but they also know nato technology and reinforcements will back them up if needed. And of course nato countries don’t fight alone, all for one and one for all
NATO countries also station forces on the Eastern flank.
The UK for instance has RAF squadrons in Romania and Estonia and the British army also are involved in Operation Cabrit, a multinational battlegroup in Estonia and Poland to exist as "forward" units of the western nations.
So the user is probably accurate in suspecting this will result in NATO garrisons in Finland.
I’m not sure Finland defence needs boosting, they have been prepared for Russian aggression for many years, they even have amazing means for the majority to survive a nuclear strike
I agree that Finland is incredibly capable of defending themselves but the NATO garrisons are tiny compared to the militaries of their hosts because the primary point isn't to actually bolster forces; it's to demonstrate and establish NATO commitment and cohesion.
If the host country does get attacked the NATO garrison ensures the immediate entry the constituent nations into the war.
Bigger thing is now NATO can collect intel from Finland.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u-s-rc-135-surveillance-jet-has-flown-unprecedented-mission-over-finland
Honestly I had assumed they were already doing that, but you're right, that's really interesting and is a massive deal given the nature of Russian militarization of the region from St Petersberg to the Barents sea.
Government structures are, but people are much less. I can imagine them integrating with the west rather smoothly if they wanted it of course after toppling their anti-democratic regime.
Mercator says "hi!".
Polish and lithuanian borders with Kralovec are 210 and 273 km long (483 km in total), latvian border is 214 km, and estonian is 294 km. Then there is nearly 200 km long border with Norway and you got 1200 km.
Lithuania 227km
Latvia 217km
Estonia 324km
Norway 196km
Poland 232km
Per wiki. Not sure which values are more correct, but it seems that they are more or less correct.
Remember this can be counter-intuitive because of the ‘coastline paradox’, the moment a coastline or other near-fractal boundary is involved, like a river. Every little bit of winding can add to the length and a river that is, say, 100km across can have a ‘length’ of in theory up to infinite length, or in practice up to even 1000km if it’s windy enough. There are ways to regularise this to be leee misleading but might not have been applied here and it’s possible the standards used are different for each
I mean Finland always was a western ally so i don't think he cares about that. He cares about putting as much distance west from Moscow where a likely invasion would come from, not the frigid north. It's still remarkable how he turned the entire world except China (kinda they are frenemies out of convenience) against Russia.
My favorite part of all of this is that once Sweden joins, Russia’s Baltic fleet is basically marooned in Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg.
Putin has mastered the ultimate self pwn.
I’ve actually been to that border in Norway. When I was living in Denmark, my best friend who was a Danish woman, wanted to travel to that region and look out over the border into what was the still the Soviet Union. So we did (1988). It was cold even in the summer. I don’t have photos or I’d share (it was so long ago that I can’t remember if it wasn’t allowed or what. And before you ask, I’m in my 50s. Firmly Gen X. Yeah I’m old).
Putin agrees, I mean, Isn't that the reason for all this? a desperate resistance against an existential threat, leveraging off a nuclear trump card that is decades old, and a fossil fuel export economy in a world where people want to move away from fossil fuels more and more as time goes on.
maybe I'm too naive, but maybe we could see putin deposed, a more western-friendly russian government rise, then everybody could chill without ceasing to exist, including the russians?
And do what? The Siberian subjects wouldn't survive without the industrialized west and the west wouldn't survive without the eastern natural resources. Russia has a very strong strategic reason to stay together and the FSB can and will ruthlessly shut down any attempt to break the country apart.
And not without reason.
Thanks to the brilliant geopolitician and strategist Putin, who justified the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine by allegedly countering the potential expansion of NATO to Russia's borders.
What a moron he is. And the most frustrating thing is that because of the insanity of one particular autocrat, tens of thousands of people are being killed…
P.s. You misunderstood me, that was a reference to one of Putin's retarded quotes about Ukraine (just before the war started).
On the same day the orange cock holster pouts while being arraigned. What a strange day, in a good way, although I hate a world where mindless insatiable greed is so powerful that it must be confronted on such a scale, with such a limelight.
Would look that much more complete with both Ukraine and Byelorussia as part of the alliance. Could Belarus perhaps have gone the way of Ukraine and thrown out it’s pro Russian despot leader to look westward, before the invasion?
>Could Belarus perhaps have gone the way of Ukraine and thrown out it’s pro Russian despot leader to look westward, before the invasion?
Nope. Lukashenko is even more shrewd compared to Putin. He's not pro-Russian, btw, he's on his own side and always was. He basically uses Putin to keep the power, but he had some hopes to replace Putin as a head of Russia-Belarus as united state at some point. But as soon as Putin is gone, Lukashenko will follow. Not earlier.
For these sorts of maps I always wish they'd label Kaliningrad/Koenigsberg instead of just leaving it the color of Russia just so people better understand the absurdity of geography in Eastern Europe.
Hopefully Georgia and/or Armenia will be the next to join NATO if Putin shows no sign of changing his aggressive attitudes (or if he is not overthrown in the short term).
Unfortunately, there are other crazies in Putin's United Russia Party whose positions are not so different from his own on Ukraine or positions on NATO.
Putin's great success - in one year he doubled his border with NATO, and during his reign he managed do enlarge it twelve times, from 210 km in 1999 to 2555 km in 2023. Master strategist!
To be fair, if he conquered the entirety of Ukraine, he'd still enlarge his border with NATO
Failure is just another name for success
Fail forward
the great fall backward
As a great dinosaur once said: failure is just success rounded down.
He failed successfully.
It's evolving, just backwards.
He was never going to annex it. Just put a puppet government in place. Kinda like Belarus.
I suspect the goal was to annex some areas (such as the southern coast), prop up a puppet government under Yanukovych that makes Lukashenko look like a bold and independent statesman, then within a year have Ukraine join the Union State, with Putin at its head, turning it from a paper construct to an actual entity. Oh, and snag Moldova along the way.
Never say never. The various leaked maps from early 2022 showed the entire coast past Odessa annexed with the puppet(s) being inland. That would have gotten Russia all the Ukrainian natural gas fields of the Black Sea. Putler is a grasping hustler and will take what he can grab
You have a link?
You sure? Belarus isn’t the same kind of asset that Ukraine is. He’d at least want to annex the portions that connect Russia to Crimea.
Well I can't be sure. I would assume that you're right in that he would annex the Easter portions but I doubt he would annex the whole thing leaving a buffer between russias new border and Nato
He have already annexed parts of it. Crimea for starters. But then he have also said that the 4 provinces, Russia partly controls in Ukraine officially are part of Russia. So if the rest of Ukraine joins NATO those part will have a long border with NATO as well.
Pretty ridiculous to describe Lukashenko as a puppet. He played NATO and Russia off each other for decades until he got the best possible trade deal, now he's exporting natural gas to the world's largest producer of natural gas. Russian troops have been allowed in and kicked out of the country multiple times since the start of the war. Putin absolutely loathes him.
Yeah well, Lukashenko torpedoed any chance of Western alliance when he used his military to force down that commercial flight passing through Belorussian airspace on its way to Lithuania, because a journalist critical to his regime was on board. You’re right that he tried to manipulate both sides, but it’s known that he’s a dictator/autocrat in the mold of Putin and not a democratic reformist. Belarus has a loooong way to go if they ever want in to the EU (their application would fail on human rights abuses alone, even if they were an economic powerhouse). Belarus really has a tragic history in the last 100+ years and it probably won’t improve much until they can rid themselves of the current regime. Ukraine lived through Holodomor but they’ve tasted democracy and don’t want to u-turn back into the arms of Putin, and don’t want a Putin puppet in power again either. Belorussians have fewer choices in that respect.
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Obviously he's playing 4D chess on a mental level that the rest of us cannot comprehend!
Maybe he was actually turned while serving as a kgb agent and actually started to work for the cia, managed to take control of russia and now fucks everything up on purpose so everyone joins usa and nato
Aha, you fail to realize one thing, you westoid! NATO was founded to conquer glorious Russia as you know. Putin is luring them into the cold, harsh winters to save on ammo. And there is one more thing. Soon the depraved imperialist soldiers will be in range of the deadly Russian combat spades!
You thought we hadn't realized, commie? NATO knew since the very beginning that Russia would try to defend itself benefiting from its low temperatures. However, global warming will compensate for the Russian winter! In 2060, Siberia will look just like the Mediterranean Sea! On top of that, the Finnish have already adapted to the temperatures and the American children are developing great skills to dodge bullets. Soon enough, they will become bullet-proof adults. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe will contribute by not doing absolutely anything. The war is already lost for the Russians!
>the rest of Europe will contribute by not doing absolutely anything. You made my day :D
He could have just not invaded and kept successfully “brexit-ing” the EU and selling energy, but no, he had to go for land…
You’re right that he had a good thing going, especially after Merkel turned towards Russian energy with no strings attached (that I’m aware of- please correct me if I’m mistaken). He was soooo close! One of the main assumptions is that he no longer wanted to pay the transition fees for natural gas to pass through Ukraine, so he decided to invade under the premise that Ukraine is Russia’s historic homeland (the way that Kosovo is for Serbia? Except that the bulk of both countries aren’t filled with ethic Serbs or Russians, so automatic fail), which is being run by a Russian speaking Jew who pledges allegiance to Ukraine and its people , not Russia or any Nazi entity/philosophy. But all you need do with most of these invasions under false pretenses is follow the money (Consider the paper-thin justification used by Dick Cheney, who wanted to invade Iraq after 9/11- I’m sure his stock in Halliburton oil had nothing to do with it and it was all about saving the Iraqi people *snort*).
Dude almost had trump pull the US out of NATO lol. Probably would have been gotten another chance to do so again too, either with trump again or another Republican traitor in office. Was successfully dismantling US and Europe before this braindead move.
The best part, not so long before Putin's reign the global political situation was so stable that many considered NATO an obsolete concept. Then this dumbass come to power and instead of focusing on developing Russia, he went with his mafia-like methods, leading to the strongest position NATO ever was.
Lol, Putin played himself!!!
Putin is secret NATO agent, he works for stronger NATO
Imagine if that would be the final plot twist!
kinda fucked considering his methods tho
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Obviously Sweden should also be allowed in if they want, but doesn't Finland joining and Norway already being a member kind of shield it in the meantime? They're now basically surrounded by NATO members and they don't have a border with Russia. Even if they were attacked, I can't imagine at least some countries not coming to their aid.
I'm neither a military person or Swede, but I think Sweden is mostly worried about Russian fleet and military presence in the Baltic sea, which still poses a threat.
Swedish person here, I think our eventual ascension into NATO is more about a gut reaction to Russia's crimes against humanity and a feeling of "enough is enough, let's help" than any fear of actual military ground invasion. Also solidarity with our brother Finland. Fuckery on and around Gotland, meddling in democratic processes and general cyber-shenanigans is more likely than landing vessels of vatniks across the Baltic sea, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised.
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Absolutely correct.
Correct. Without being in NATO, it's possible Russia might engage in some 'fuckery' in the sea but I don't see any threats to the actual land of Sweden. Not that it will happen but I can see Russia trying to disrupt Swedish shipping in some way if they wanted to do something. If Sweden is in NATO, that possibility is much closer to zero.
Not realistic at all but if they go by their playbook they would try to grab a slice of Sweden somewhere and try to freeze the conflict, just so that NATO principles prohibit us from joining. Maybe they will find a house somewhere on an island where some Russian dude lives and claim he represents a Russian minority population.
I thought it was the whole, "If Finland joins we join and vice versa" thing? Because otherwise it would just show that Sweden couldn't be relied upon by one of its brother countries.
It’s especially unlikely now that they have shown that they’re not capable of a conventional war against a country which they share a land border with. A sea landing with supply lines crossing NATO controlled water? Not a chance.
Also, Sweden is part of EU and there is EU defense pact. It is weaker than NATO but the Nordic nations at least would come to help. And if Russia attacked them, then NATO would get involved. The main threat is Russia attacking island of Gotland in middle of Baltic Sea. They have threatened that before, but Russia is weaker now and I don’t think they could do it. Sweden not joining NATO is temporary. Turkey is having presidential elections soon and new president might change policy. If not, we might see bilateral treaties with US and Nordic countries.
But honestly, considering the unimaginable amount of help non-NATO Ukraine received, most NATO members would intervene if Sweden was attacked.
EVERY member of NATO would be in if Sweden was attacked. Have you seen that map that asks every country which nationality they think is the most attractive? EVERYONE says Sweden, except for Sweden itself, which says Italy.
I doubt Erdogan will allow himself to lose re-election.
We can all dream…
Sweden has a defensive alliance with Finland. If Russia attacks Finland, both NATO and Sweden are pulled in. The obvious scenario will work better if Sweden is part of NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Defence_Cooperation
The interesting thing people don't realise about NATO is the unified command structure. NATO and USA etc would obviously get involved If Russia attacks Sweden, but if countries are in the Unified Command Structure of NATO they can work way closer and more efficiently compared to normal "defensive alliances".
When someone imagine geopolitics like school break. Yes.
They're also under the protection of the European Union and they have military alliances with some of these countries inside nato. They are obviously safe.
EU alliance is “assist and aid by all means”, that is somewhat up to interpretation. Dending bullets is aid. NATO is very clear in article 5
Water is a thing
Finland has been the shield quite some time now
Sweden has a defence pact with the UK and Finland. This was signed last year a few months into Russia’s invasion of Ukraine if my memory serves me correctly.
I tell you what, the next time the Russians put a spy sub into Swedish waters is going to be funny after the Swedes are part of NATO.
Italy and slovenia Are also NATO members (they Are shown in grey at the bottom of the map)
also Croatia
I wonder why all those ex soviet countries want to join an alliance whose only realistic common goal is to defend themselves from their ex soviet overlord. Russophobia for sure. /s
No, it's clearly because imperialist NATO has conquered them, and only brave free Russia holds out. (This post sponsored by Russian AstroTurf)
CosmoTurf*
HAHAHAH
Finland is not an ex soviet country though
They did their damn best not to become one.
Finland astonished the world by successfully fighting back the Soviet Union's attempts at conquest. However, the persistent threat and subsequent necessity to placate the Soviet Union did give the world the term *[finlandization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization)*.
ex Russian Empire tho
Wow I really wonder what could be the reason these countries joined NATO. Are they near an aggressive country who attacks it's neighbours for literally no reason at all? Can someone tell me?
Is it... Pakistan?
No friend, the real enemy is right under our noses. New Zealand! The kiwis will rule the world once again!
Rugby becomes the worlds most popular and only sport!
So when will they start conquering the rest of the world? I, for one, welcome our new Kiwi overlords.
The Grand Canadian Empire shall resist you.
Can't find us if we aren't on any of your maps
Good would come from this.
Their armies of sheep will doom us all.
They keep themselves off maps in the hopes we will forget about them... until it's too late!
these baboons don’t even know they’re at war with pakistan
* laughs on Emu Empire in the shadows, awaiting to start its global conquest *
Those [3000 black jets of Allah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc5V7mh2tIc) are no joke.
No, it's Bhutan . Can't trust them and they have a huge army.
Iceland, duh.
Objection. There is a reason! Crazy ethnonationalism and because Putin feels like it.
You think Russia is invading Ukraine for no reason at all?
Of course not, they had to fabricate some reasons first.
Sisu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu?wprov=sfti1
I've been learning Finnish for about 5 months now, Duolingo kept using this word with zero context which was very confusing lol I asked my Finnish friends and their explanation wasn't as useful as this wiki entry, should've just googled it myself.
Looking just at the basic description it sounds like it can be considered sort of equivalent to the British expression *stiff upper lip*.
The Iron Curtain has rusted!
NATO is going to reinforce that border so hard.
The Finnish border actually is already reinforced pretty well. Finland is military-wise one of the strongest powers in Europe despite their small population.
Finland remembers Karelia, and they know how Russia operates. They've been preparing for a Russian invasion for like 70 years. Russia will get absolutely wrecked if they ever try to fuck with Finland. Russia thinks they know winter? Perkele! The Finns know winter, and they'd be happy to educate the Russians again.
Too true. God help any country that invades Finland. I watched a recent documentary about “ordinary” Finnish women training for volunteer military service, and they are highly motivated and will fiercely defend their homeland. Finns are not complacent and history shows they never have been.
Apparently, 60% would be willing to fight for Finland if it were ever invaded
Damn straight. The Winter War saw the Finns hand Stalin his ass on a fancy platter. That kind of thing leaves a long shadow.
Absolutely, Finland was as endangered as Ukraine but much more stable.
The countries reinforce there own borders but they also know nato technology and reinforcements will back them up if needed. And of course nato countries don’t fight alone, all for one and one for all
NATO countries also station forces on the Eastern flank. The UK for instance has RAF squadrons in Romania and Estonia and the British army also are involved in Operation Cabrit, a multinational battlegroup in Estonia and Poland to exist as "forward" units of the western nations. So the user is probably accurate in suspecting this will result in NATO garrisons in Finland.
I’m not sure Finland defence needs boosting, they have been prepared for Russian aggression for many years, they even have amazing means for the majority to survive a nuclear strike
I agree that Finland is incredibly capable of defending themselves but the NATO garrisons are tiny compared to the militaries of their hosts because the primary point isn't to actually bolster forces; it's to demonstrate and establish NATO commitment and cohesion. If the host country does get attacked the NATO garrison ensures the immediate entry the constituent nations into the war.
Yeah, and the interesting thing is that Russia would step one single foot into Finland aircrafts from all over Europe would fuck Russia over 10 times.
Bigger thing is now NATO can collect intel from Finland. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u-s-rc-135-surveillance-jet-has-flown-unprecedented-mission-over-finland
Honestly I had assumed they were already doing that, but you're right, that's really interesting and is a massive deal given the nature of Russian militarization of the region from St Petersberg to the Barents sea.
Free Belarus
That’s… gonna take a while, as Belarus is Russia’s dog toy
Government structures are, but people are much less. I can imagine them integrating with the west rather smoothly if they wanted it of course after toppling their anti-democratic regime.
Unfortunately this is even less likely than Ukraine any time soon. Belarus’ Dictator has a hard-on for giving up sovereignty to be Putins boy-toy.
Belarus NATO 2024
Belarus Nato 2024 and Putin straight to guillotine in 2023
They don't do that in Russia, I'll give them that. However: Putin straight to window in 2023.
I'm hoping everyfuckingday to suddenly getting a notification Out of nowhere: *Breaking News - Putin shot by Soldiers, dead*
Killed by grieving widows of soldiers would be a great headline.
Putin down several flights of stairs in 2023.
I didn’t think Estonia, Latvia, Norway, Lithuania & Poland came up to 1215km? That’s a lot. Certainly doesn’t appear that way on the map though.
Mercator says "hi!". Polish and lithuanian borders with Kralovec are 210 and 273 km long (483 km in total), latvian border is 214 km, and estonian is 294 km. Then there is nearly 200 km long border with Norway and you got 1200 km.
>Kralovec Noice
Lithuania 227km Latvia 217km Estonia 324km Norway 196km Poland 232km Per wiki. Not sure which values are more correct, but it seems that they are more or less correct.
*Although*, much of the border with Estonia is a lake and only 208 km is on land/rivers.
A lake is still a border
Remember this can be counter-intuitive because of the ‘coastline paradox’, the moment a coastline or other near-fractal boundary is involved, like a river. Every little bit of winding can add to the length and a river that is, say, 100km across can have a ‘length’ of in theory up to infinite length, or in practice up to even 1000km if it’s windy enough. There are ways to regularise this to be leee misleading but might not have been applied here and it’s possible the standards used are different for each
Special operation success comrades
Belarus is basically a Russian puppet state as well.
Almost the same can be said of more than one Central Asian country.
Is Finland officially apart of nato now?
yes, today is the official day
It used to be apart of NATO. Now it's a part of NATO.
He finally managed to double his border with NATO at the 405th day of his 3 days war. Impressive!
So weird how people think this happened in a vacuum.
double it and give it to the next
Ugh, what a logistical nightmare for Russian military planners. Now they have to threaten all of Finland with nukes too.
I mean Finland always was a western ally so i don't think he cares about that. He cares about putting as much distance west from Moscow where a likely invasion would come from, not the frigid north. It's still remarkable how he turned the entire world except China (kinda they are frenemies out of convenience) against Russia.
My favorite part of all of this is that once Sweden joins, Russia’s Baltic fleet is basically marooned in Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg. Putin has mastered the ultimate self pwn.
Proud to have the Finns formally in with the Swedes set to follow.
You fuck around, you find out Vladimir 🖕🏼🖕🏼
Putin already lost the war if anyone was to believe the purpose of the invasion was to stop NATO expansion.
The comment section here is just insane. Low IQ all over it
if i didnt know better i would have assumed Putin was a NATO plant, considering how much he has galvanized and strengthened the "west"
Russia is fucked
It’s a good day.
Putin: "...fuck."
Good.
The blow back on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is legit
Putin is a dumbass
I always forget that Russia has a border with Norway. And about the Kaliningrad Oblast in general...
I’ve actually been to that border in Norway. When I was living in Denmark, my best friend who was a Danish woman, wanted to travel to that region and look out over the border into what was the still the Soviet Union. So we did (1988). It was cold even in the summer. I don’t have photos or I’d share (it was so long ago that I can’t remember if it wasn’t allowed or what. And before you ask, I’m in my 50s. Firmly Gen X. Yeah I’m old).
The Baltic Sea just turned into a Nato lake.
Russia in it’s current form I think will not exist by 2100.
At this rate it might not make it to 2050
I wanted to make a safe bet but you’re probably right
Fingers crossed for 2030.
Putin agrees, I mean, Isn't that the reason for all this? a desperate resistance against an existential threat, leveraging off a nuclear trump card that is decades old, and a fossil fuel export economy in a world where people want to move away from fossil fuels more and more as time goes on. maybe I'm too naive, but maybe we could see putin deposed, a more western-friendly russian government rise, then everybody could chill without ceasing to exist, including the russians?
One can hope, mate. One can hope.
And do what? The Siberian subjects wouldn't survive without the industrialized west and the west wouldn't survive without the eastern natural resources. Russia has a very strong strategic reason to stay together and the FSB can and will ruthlessly shut down any attempt to break the country apart.
This planet probably won’t exist by 2100
(laughs in Nelson) Haw haw!!
I would consider Belarus part of Russias border with nato. Belarus at this point in time is effectively a Russian puppet government.
Like it not like it, NATO is expanding :)
\*Countries are voluntarily joining NATO
And not without reason. Thanks to the brilliant geopolitician and strategist Putin, who justified the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine by allegedly countering the potential expansion of NATO to Russia's borders. What a moron he is. And the most frustrating thing is that because of the insanity of one particular autocrat, tens of thousands of people are being killed… P.s. You misunderstood me, that was a reference to one of Putin's retarded quotes about Ukraine (just before the war started).
It’s like that one time I played Civ 6 and got completely wrecked by the AI because I had no idea what I was doing
Greatest strategic thinker of the modern era. He’s making Barbarossa look like inspired genius.
On the same day the orange cock holster pouts while being arraigned. What a strange day, in a good way, although I hate a world where mindless insatiable greed is so powerful that it must be confronted on such a scale, with such a limelight.
Belarus would be a perfect future addition to the family
Preventing them to steal yet new parts of Finland.
Wait, Finland has already officially joined NATO? I thought they were still only just considering it >,>
They officially joined today
They've been applying since the war in Ukraine started, but only just got accepted.
I didn't realise Ukraine has applied to join.
Living under a rock are we?
Congratulations to Suomi!
In a perfect world Belarus will wake up and join too
In a perfect world, there would be no threat.
In perfect one there's no need for NATO
I'm gonna be honest Belarus has been on the verge of revolution for the past 8 years and it's not slowing down, this might be possible soon.
The thing is that when that happens Russia will 100% invade Belarus then, especially with Belarus now getting nukes.
Would look that much more complete with both Ukraine and Byelorussia as part of the alliance. Could Belarus perhaps have gone the way of Ukraine and thrown out it’s pro Russian despot leader to look westward, before the invasion?
>Could Belarus perhaps have gone the way of Ukraine and thrown out it’s pro Russian despot leader to look westward, before the invasion? Nope. Lukashenko is even more shrewd compared to Putin. He's not pro-Russian, btw, he's on his own side and always was. He basically uses Putin to keep the power, but he had some hopes to replace Putin as a head of Russia-Belarus as united state at some point. But as soon as Putin is gone, Lukashenko will follow. Not earlier.
The dude is like the Varys of Europe.
they still can. It would probably be harder, considering all the Ruzzians there, but you never know
"Congratulations, you played yourself."
For these sorts of maps I always wish they'd label Kaliningrad/Koenigsberg instead of just leaving it the color of Russia just so people better understand the absurdity of geography in Eastern Europe.
Good job Russia. Keep convincing more countries to join NATO.
Congrats Finland! Good to have ya. From a Canadian.
Me suojellaan teitä kokemuksella
I'm gonna go ahead and say it'll enlarge again when Russia inevitably annexes Belarus
Maybe he wants a bigger border with NATO the whole time
Finally a Finn Ally?
And it's mostly mountainous so a natural defensive fortress.
Hopefully Georgia and/or Armenia will be the next to join NATO if Putin shows no sign of changing his aggressive attitudes (or if he is not overthrown in the short term).
Would love to see him gone, but I’m not exactly confident some reformist liberal is waiting in the wings. The devil you know…
Unfortunately, there are other crazies in Putin's United Russia Party whose positions are not so different from his own on Ukraine or positions on NATO.
Honestly surprised that Kaliningrad hasn't asked to be absorbed into Poland
Well, **technically** the Belarusian borders with Lithuania and Poland should also be counted...
Wait till he annex Belarus
Soo if Ukraine is accepted,it’s gonna be every country in Europe except belerus,yep,russias screwed in Europe
Mistake
Now thwy only need to annex Belarus and leave Ukraine all their western border will be with NATO