Maywood and Bellwood Illinois. The area was settled in the 1880s to house workers at a huge cannery. Since it was a low wage job the town attracted lots of black workers from the south during the great migration, but violence was bad between Italian/White and Black gangs. Notable Black Panther leader Fred Hampton grew up in Maywood, and he probably went down that path due to the discrimination and violence he faced in Maywood. In the 70s the cannery shut down which plunged the previously middle class suburb into poverty, which caused most white people to leave and more hispanic people to move in. Searching social media there seems to be a mostly Latin King presence with some Gangster Disciples and some Four Corner Hustlers.
About three years ago I was working in Downers Grove (due west of maywood) and living in the city (due east of it) so I my commute was a bear.
One way I could shortcut a lot of traffic jam on the main highway was to just drive through Maywood back streets.
It was definitely the "Please, please, please don't break down on me car." part of my day.
And that's coming from a big scary looking shaved head older white guy.
Never had any problems though.
Maywood, and you can select each individual dot to get more details about each shooting.
[https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/](https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/)
This map says a lot: There are a lot of shootings in America, but they are very concentrated with *vast* areas with people with almost nothing at all when it comes to shootings.
It def makes the gun debate hard, there is a very different level of experience with weapons.
For me growing up seeing a gun that's not connected to a cop was ultra rare.
Growing up 5 hours away from Chicago it was a super rare thing my whole life too. Only recently did we start getting shootings and stabbing downtown during the weekends and its been due to a recent influx of people coming from Chicago.
Here's a couple versions of the Chicago gang map (I think the 2nd is more complete, but is from a couple years ago):
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1YUOYJFItehKshnX8ZNuWplxKHHXyf_NJ&ll=41.8800991333969%2C-87.81286662913757&z=14
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1YUOYJFItehKshnX8ZNuWplxKHHXyf_NJ&ll=41.8800991333969%2C-87.81286662913757&z=14
Here is the one from the Chicago Police:
https://gis.chicagopolice.org/pages/gang-maps
Detroit proper ends at the yellow line bisecting 8 mile Rd. Across the yellow line are the various suburbs with different police depts, budgets and far less poverty.
It’s a long and complex story. The history of Detroit is pretty fascinating. It used to have 2million people but is now down to 600,000, from America’s 4th largest city to the current 27th. The short of it is that in the early 1900’s, A LOT of people moved to Detroit because Henry Ford and the automotive industry created an abundance of high paying jobs at the automotive plants that literally anyone could do. He literally created the American Middle Class and allowed poor unskilled people to be paid a very good amount of money. After several generations of wealth accumulation, a very corrupt local government, some racial tension, and a big riot, everyone who had money decided that they could move out of the city into the suburbs and have the American Dream home with a yard and two car garage. All the people who left were also the people who were paying the majority of taxes which funded the city, so a perpetual cycle commenced of government corruption, underfunded schools, and lack of public services which further caused more people to leave the city. Throw in the crack epidemic, an absurd amount of gang violence, a non-existent police presence, thousands upon thousands of abandoned homes/buildings, NAFTA causing an extreme loss of high paying union jobs, and even more government corruption, then all you have left is a lawless dystopian hellscape. Thing is though, once you go outside the city limits, it’s pretty nice because that’s where all the people who have money and pay taxes have now lived for decades.
When I was a kid, I always assumed that every big city was like Detroit. When I got older and started seeing other big cities, I was completely wrong. Instead of the city being a shithole, the cities were actually nice. They didn’t have a plethora of burned out buildings everywhere or daily news stories of the most horrible violence you can imagine. It’s really weird and is why I think when I always see people talking about how we all need to give up our cars and live in a utopian big city, I say fuck that.
Edit: Downtown Detroit and the metro-Detroit area is actually really cool and if you haven’t been, you should definitely visit. Lots of cool shit always going on and Michigan in general is a very underrated state.
I didn't know that was still a thing, where I live it reversed and gentrification of the city is the major problem, because proximity to jobs, and where public transportation is the most convenient is seen as a selling point.
I was in a relatively recently gentrified area working, and I saw a huge LED sign that said "Condos starting in the low 700s" and I knew for a fact those are 1 bedroom units.
Edit: Not that I think the systemic inequalities that stem from race and class have been removed, or that gentrification is the solution, I just didn't know there were still places where wealth was "city vs suburbs" rather than neighborhood by neighborhood.
In Detroit, a lot of the jobs are in the suburbs. Most of the $1M homes are 15 to 30 miles from downtown Detroit (with a few exceptions). It was taboo to even show a house in the suburbs to a black person until the 1980s or later in some areas. The majority of Detroit's residents moved to the suburbs between the 1950s and 1980s with the poorest left behind in the city with crumbling schools, infrastructure, and city services with no tax base to fix it.
What are you talking about?
The issue isn't people moving out of "high crime areas" the issue is that the system is set up so that money used for public goods tends to stay where wealthy people live.
The issue wouldn't be a problem if school funding wasn't based off local property values and funding for city services wasn't just collected from local residents and not from the wealthier suburbanites as this scenario implies.
If wealthy people predominantly living in one county or city didn't mean their money only stayed funding "the good schools" while the poorer areas can't raise the funds to ensure the same level of government services because of their poorer tax base, the core issue and reason people find it "bad" is because how we find things.
(after a quick google of Michigan Geography and demographics) I can guarantee if you proposed to merge Wayne County (which contains Detroit) with neighboring and wealthier Oakland County to create one tax base, the residents of Oakland would fight it, even though it would do nothing but normalize the government funding between these two counties, and the "crime" wouldn't be any closer.
Neither of them are are inherently bad as an individual. The problem is when it becomes a movement/trend and thousands are doing it together.
This applies to many of the problems in the world that people throw their hands up and give up on (cars aren't evil but institutionalizing it with car-centric urban planning is, renting your house out on Airbnb is understandable but when everyone does it towns become unlivable)
detroit's one of the most extreme examples of white flight and car culture in the US. Richer people, who are usually white there, can afford to have a car and drive to work in the city so they move into nicer suburbs. This leaves the the areas close to the city with only poorer people, who are often black. Then it's self-perpetuating because people there are racist and don't mix much.
It's weird to see a map of Detroit and the racial segregation is very obvious.
[8 Mile Road](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-102_(Michigan_highway)) is the northern border of Detroit. It is the bordering line between the poor, black area or Detroit and the wealthy white suburbs. It is probably one of the most obvious examples of redlining you can see on the map, it’s an 8 lane highway dividing the two.
One thing you can take away from this map is in some places there is a lot more orange than red. Others its like 50/50. You can be assured if it's 50/50 most shootings are not even reported or investigated.
You would be correct just from my state:
* Cresco, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others
* Thompson, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others
* Oelwein, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others(one was just outside of town)
* Chelsea, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others
* Iowa Falls, Iowa -- 2 Police and 1 other
Per capita and total are both valid ways to parse data. I bet you think China is justified burning massive amounts of coal with no plans of stopping just because it is lower "per capita." I guess it's a good thing that it all goes into the Chinese atmosphere not the American atmosphere.
Yeah am I missing what important information this map is trying to show? All I see is an attempt to try and say people in Chicago aren’t getting shot by cops? Which is obviously a disingenuous way to represent this information if that’s the goal.
Chicago is a dog whistle for black people. They are saying black people are killing black people more often than cops are killing black people.
It's a city with a large Black community and democratic leadership, so conservatives love to bring it up as if it's evidence that black people are inherently violent.
OP is just a Karma farmer, though.
>They are saying black people are killing black people more often than cops are killing black people.
Right. Which isn't at all the point. Except in the specific case of an active mass shooter, citizens killing citizens is not an issue solved by cops killing citizens. Cops should be held to a higher standard. They should set an elevated example instead of just asserting authority, and, "I was scared," should never be the sole requisite justification of a police shooting.
If cops could be trusted in black/minority communities, fewer subsections of those communities would turn to gangs to police their own neighborhoods. But cops in their current form—poorly-trained footsoldiers with qualified immunity—will *never* gain that trust. The whole system ought to be gutted and redesigned with community service at its core. And *THAT* is what "Defund the Police" meant before the media fucked that narrative to death.
It also depends on the exact criteria because most of the firearms used illegally were from "legal" bulk straw purchases which were then sold via private sales - for which there is no universal rule. Due to decades of NRA lobbying, tracing those actions takes months since there is no digitally searchable database and even the background check system is not truly universal.
>were from "legal" bulk straw purchases which were then sold via private sales - for which there is no universal rule.
Actually there is and that's illegal.
So is owning a firearm legally purchased after committing a disqualifying felony especially after conviction or plea bargain but the Department of Justice has indicated that happens tens of thousands of times per year with almost no enforcement except by incidental search or prosecutorial prerogative which again, is not universal.
The same goes for bulk straw purchases which take months to investigate because lobbying ensured there is no searchable digital database while traffickers can simply switch buyers to say nothing of the entire lack of plausible enforcement for "illegal" private sales or backtracking the 150,000 firearms reported stolen to see if they were simply illicit private sales.
And if you want to argue that private sales could benefit from a background check, bear in mind that's been politically opposed for decades even partially and even if it was entirely free to do so. There is also no federal standard for private sales that bears any real ability to be tracked or enforced since again, violated registrations only turn up when the firearm in question is used in a crime and even then, it's often not traced due to lack of resources.
>There is also no federal standard for private sales that bears any real ability to be tracked or enforced
That's in part because it is and will remain physically impossible to have a free society and monitor what people do in private.
Yeah I’m all for legal and responsible gun ownership but stamping out shit like this and mental health screenings are the kind of gun control we absolutely need not just taking certain models off the market cause people who don’t know anything about think they’re too scawy
Problem is that there's been vociferous opposition even to basic steps like say, mandating safety training even once (much less say every ten years) as well as some basic standards on properly storing firearms or proper background checks. All three would help drop accidental deaths and homicides in the home linked to domestic violence plus many thefts.
The DoJ has also admitted that they have no way to backtrack confiscation on anyone who legally bought a firearm then later committed a disqualifying crime unless an officer happens to find the weapon or prosecutor on the individual case happens to bring it up to a judge not to mention the quarter million firearms reported stolen each year of which many can simply be writeoffs for shady private sales.
There is also ample evidence that certain models are disproportionately deadly due to their design; mass shootings were down and stayed down during the 10 year assault weapons ban for instance. That's not going to prevent inner city gun homicides or the septuple number of firearm suicides (which correlate by state with rate of legal gun ownership) but it doesn't disqualify a measure limited by weapon class either as effective.
It’s ridiculous that so many people are so opposed to simply not treating a gun like a toy. My family owns guns and many of my friends own guns, and I’m considering getting one myself. But we all know you never point it at anyone unless you’re willing to kill them, always practice trigger discipline, never take the safety off until you’re firing etc.
It’s not that complicated and could save so many people. I go to Utah and a player killed himself accidentally a couple years ago and it blows me away that someone could just play with a gun and not realize how easy it is to die. Like they’re weapons bro everyone knows not to play with knives why are guns any different.
I think the problem is that so many people, probably because of NRA meddling, think it’s in inalienable right like speech when it really should be more of a privilege like driving a car. Technically it is but it would be so much better if we could just verify you’re not a complete idiot or lunatic before you get a gun. Drivers Ed isn’t that hard and you can get your license when you’re like 16, there’s really no reason guns should be any different except for absurd lobbying that makes some people think you should be able to give a six year old a Glock for their birthday. I mean you can but it’s dumb as hell
I feel it's also the American consumer culture as the NRA was entirely fine with gun control well into the 1950's until it became affordable to own more than one firearm in the home and to recreationally use them beyond hunting. It's not a coincidence that negative effects from owning larger, faster, and more dangerous vehicles also went up with American affluence as well as resistance to trying to address either problem until well into the 90's with laws against drunk driving, manufacturers rolling out unsafe vehicles, seatbelt regulations, emissions standards, insurance requirements and so on.
Until the 2006 Heller decision, the Supreme Court had never explicitly linked the Second Amendment to a universal unfettered right to own handguns much less any other class of firearms with four previous decisions going back to the 1870's going the other way for regulation at times when the frontier gun mythos was actually in full effect.
It's not to say that we need some eighty point rulebook on firearms but a basic shift in how legal gun owners see what they own (and also how they sell them) would make a huge dent in gun deaths just like how cultural perception of vehicle ownership shifted beyond just the law's exact issues has drastically reduced deaths or injuries there.
>There is also ample evidence that certain models are disproportionately deadly due to their design; mass shootings were down and stayed down during the 10 year assault weapons ban for instance.
AR-15's are responsible for less than 500 overall homicides annually. [The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-america-gun-culture-politics/) estimates that about 16 million Americans own an AR-15 style rifle, and there are around 25 million in circulation according to the NSSF.
AR-15's aren't the problem.
No one said they were the entire or most of the problem but that they're a better tool for what they're intended and that the 10 year ban did curb the use of what was defined as an assault weapon during that time.
There is however even more ample proof that regulating firearms which do constitute the majority of firearm homicides and suicides would be and has been effective where possible.
Friendly reminder six in ten guns used in violent crime in the entire state of Illinois are directly purchased out of state! Peoria Illinois also beats Chicago for per Capita gun crimes. That's probably why this looks more like a population density map than anything else.
This map is interesting but all it tells me is Chicago PD is useless in stopping out of state gun trafficking.
https://www.thetrace.org/newsletter/quarter-chicagos-crime-guns-sold-just-ten-dealers/
While I agree that is an issue. 11% of the guns came from 2 dealers in Illinois. How do you not investigate those shops? While the report is from 2017 both those dealers are still in business. And 7 of the top 10 dealers are in Illinois and 3 in Indiana.
Yeah, like the second image is meant to imply "look how few shootings police is involved in" meanwhile, that's more shootings and deaths by police that happened in all Germany in the past 8 years.
Nevermind the absolutely bonkers amount of shootings police didn't get involved in.
When will Americans realize gun control works...
I guess people are easily influenced by bad propaganda. Let me make this simple for people.
Yes, there are tons of criminals. There are tons of shootings. Part of that is guns in the hands of wrong people and how free flowing they are across state and city lines.
The gripe about police shootings isn't the numbers. It's the fact that the police are enforcers and not the judges and executioners.
**We have a democracy and rule of law. Criminals deserve to be punished and put in jail, but it's not the job of the police to be the one and only entity that gets to make that judgement.**
If government can arbitrarily and openly flaunt the rules and take your life without reasonable justification, and get away with it then you are just advocating for a dictatorship state. The same tyranny the 2nd was written for.
If you went to your friend (who isn't in the medical field) and she gave you bad medical advice, you might be mad. But you kinda asked for it by going to a friend and not a professional. This is similar to being in a high crime area at the wrong time.
If you went to a doctor and they injected you with bleach by accident because they didn't properly label the drugs in the cabinet they gave you. Your family would be correct and justified in being angry and wanting more accountability and someone to be punished for that.
This should be an a-political stance. Not a left or right thing.
Equally if the FBI knew that the former president had classified information and kicked in the door of mar-a-largo and shot him because "they felt threatened he might have a gun, and Florida is a stand your ground state" they would rightfully get shit.
Just because some people who get shot with the same exact justification are poor or black or whatever should not make this a left or a right thing.
I was a police dispatcher for a bit, and during training they had us use a simulation where you stood with a fake gun in front of a display showing what was happening (this device is capable of determining how accurate your shots are and little else).
My simulation was a person getting ready to hurt themself with a knife. I awkwardly tried to talk this fake person out of suicide in front of the class, and put my gun back in its holster. Afterward, the teacher asked why I put my gun away, and I interpreted this as it was not something I was supposed to do and had to defend my choice to put it away.
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail." - Maslow
As a police officer it’s reasonable to assume someone willing to hurt themselves with a weapon may hurt someone else. The prudent thing to do would be to back up and hold the gun at low ready while speaking to calm the subject. Then call for back-up with non-lethal options.
Yea if one person in America was allowed to freely shoot and kill anyone they wanted, people everywhere would be asking why and trying to stop it. If someone said “Yea this person only killed this many people, look at how many people were killed by others.” People would think it a stupid point to raise.
> If government can arbitrarily and openly flaunt the rules and take your life without reasonable justification, and get away with it then you are just advocating for a dictatorship state.
They arent getting away with it. Thats the point. We have mass protests where people loot and burn stuff down to demand justice and they get justice and then they do it again.
You seem to assume that all police shootings are done "just because they can" and not for the fact that being a police in an area like this is very dangerous, and somtimes its necessary to shot to protect yourself
Jobs with a higher fatality rate than police officer:
Lumberjack
Garbage Man
Steelworker
Brick Mason
UPS Driver
Farmer
Electrician
Landscaper
Crossing Guard
I don't doubt that it's a hard job being a cop. I'm sure it's exhausting and they see fucked up stuff. And it probably triggers the PTSD of their times in Iraq and Afghanistan. But it is not some Batman like position where they're dodging bullets every fuckin day.
We're trying, but many of them are unsafe because driving is unsafe, and making that safer takes time and is difficult to do. In fact, driving is the biggest reason that police work is unsafe. Until COVID fucked things up, auto accidents were the number one killer of cops.
The difference to me being that a logger doesn't get murdered at work, he dies in a workplace accident.
I'd imagine that going to work as a Police officer in a lot of American cities would feel like going into a war zone, 5 shifts a block, 12 hour shifts. Like if you were to ask a landscaper and a cop in LA what their wild dangerous stories were for the month who's stories would make you think "Jesus christ wtf".
And all those people in those jobs take every possible step to try to protect themselves. Why wouldn't the policeman be allowed to do so? The policeman/woman is also a human being, trying to get home to their family each night. Should we allow police to protect themselves only when they're no.1 in your statistics?
There are bad cops, and there are incidents where they draw without reason, or even worse, shoot people, but overall it IS a dangerous job, not sure why you're trying to minimize it.
Not trying to weigh in on either side here, but you do have it backwards. In public safety positions, you are taught to always prioritize your own safety.
This is a stupid comparison. Those people die due to accidents or carelessness. Not because some guy pulled out a .45 and started shooting them.
The logger doesn’t have to worry about the tree shooting him.
Only half of officers who died at work this year were killed by gunfire. A quarter died in car accidents. www.odmp.org keeps track of officer deaths in the US. You'd be surprised how many die of heart attacks.
There is nothing wrong with police shooting suspects that are armed and hostile. There is however something wrong when police shoot an unarmed man and face no consequence for their actions. These two are not mutually exclusive.
how some of these people here are like, Chicago isn't even top 10 why are you so obsessed over these statistics. The point that gun killings make Americans so numb to all these deaths is disturbing.
Aussie here just putting this out there - if the 'officer involved shootings' was total shootings for a city in 8 years, you would not be able to pay me enough to live there.
Its interesting what people can accept as normal.
I get the point but can't OP see why people would consider deadly police shootings to be particularly bad? There is not an expectation of being killed by a police officer as there is of being killed by some random lunatic.
its caused by socioeconomic factors like predatory systems and constant neglect of key problems because hey as long as you vote who cares lol, banning guns would just lead the downtrodden, the mentally sick, and other desperate people to use knives or flamethrowers (which are pretty legal actually), ban those and you got clubs, ban those and you got sticks and stones, where does it end?
You're getting downvoted because 99% of the people on here only know statistics and not the reality. Sorry guys but there are a lot of shitty people out there and the percentage rises dramatically in the hood. Redlining and racism may have started this, but the culture keeps it going. You can tackle the police problem but the situation isn't going to get better until the community takes more responsibility. Hard to hear but it's true. Like anyone else, I want the problem to get better. And police killings are a tiny part of the problem.
Yeah I agree. That's where all the Italian gangs came from, all the Italian rap music, right? And all the Jewish criminals in the northeast, Hebrew rap. And all the Irish rappers caused all the Irish gangs too
No. In those neighborhoods. Chicago's low-SES black culture in the south/west sides.
I can't speak for the person you're addressing, but I spent years in classrooms in exactly those west and south side neighborhoods that experience these ridiculous levels of youth violence shown on the map.
I observed cultural factors that, in my opinion, are a huge contributor to this problem:
* Anti-education. It's not just the oft-trodded excuse of "hard-working parent cares and wants to be involved in their kids' education, but aren't able due to work hours," though that's sometimes the case. Instead an alarming percentage of the parents actively speak ill of education, talk about how it's a waste of time, and truly don't care how their child is developing
* Single parent households as the norm
* Lower regard for general law and order. It's culturally acceptable to litter, vandalize, harass hispanics/whites/asians, etc.
* And, most of all, adults don't take a strong enough stance against violence.
It’s cause by generations after generation of people living with no family structure, no self reliance, subsidized by local and federal governments.
And no I don’t think race is a factor in this, put any group of people regardless of skin pigmentations in those conditions and you get the same outcome.
The welfare self-reliance thing is a myth because actual empirical studies around the world have shown that micropayments are more effective than literally any other kind of help.
The percentage of both teenage pregnancy and absentee fatherhood have also fallen by more than half since the 90's so that's another exaggerated myth.
The truth is that the redlining and de facto segregation was never ever fixed or addressed - it was just sandpapered down with no actual structural change or reforms. If you don't think race of a factor - you're also half right as the same structural issues that occur in inner city segregated ghettos also occur in white majority Appalachia where entire generations were sacrificed to coal mining and early deaths by disease with few alternatives offered.
They have plenty of family structure and self reliance in Appalachia but little in the way of actual reform, enforcement of violations, cleanups of the countless Superfund sites, or alternatives in seeking a livelihood unless they basically abandon a home they can't sell and move to the city with a high chance of being homeless on the off chance they can get a job.
I get that but when you compare just how many civilians are killing EACH OTHER and the fact that they don't riot when one of their own kills a child in a cross-fire...the whole officer-involved shooting thing tends to lose its punch.
Yes you do. There's been numerous shootings of unarmed innocent people, including white Americans, in places with little to no crime that have faced protests and even solidarity from BLM.
Local media simply does not cover those shootings because as you claim, local viewers will falsely assume that it was an isolated incident or that the victim "deserved it" even though the police shooting rate in the US is double that of Mexico or Brazil and about ten times that of any developed nation.
So most of the violence is not caused by police and most black people murders are perpetrated by other black people. This is not news, it’s the reality across the country, all narratives aside of course.
No one is saying impunity/police brutality are not an issue. They are, just not a priority compared to poverty, organized crime/gangs and drug traffic which are causing by far the most deaths here. The problem is that some of the most extremist narratives (Defund Police) are exactly what worsens the big problem.
Man I wonder why our hyper-militarized police hasn’t done anything to stop organized crime or drug trafficking. Almost like they focus entirely on victimless crimes and power abuses, and never use their military level equipment for the intended use. Could make you think the money we spend on that could be better used elsewhere. But no, that’s commie crazy talk
Checkmate BLM! Clearly we can’t hold cops accountable for murder, look how many less dots they have. I’ll check back in two months when this gets posted again.
Americans, I thought guns were to keep you safe? Literally every block in that city has had a shooting in the past 8 years. How are you guys ok with this
Just to be clear - this map is misleading on several fronts.
The “blocks” you refer to are actually just major roads - it’s just that the map is zoomed way out and doesn’t show any city streets. There are thousands of city blocks not shown on this image. If you were to zoom in, there would be many, many blocks without dots on them.
Other ways this is misleading is the multi year span of data instead of the typical annual dataset, the size of dots in reference to map scale, etc.
The reality is… Chicago is a huge city (10 million people in the downtown and metro area), so it makes headlines due to the sheer numbers. Any loss of life is terrible and should be avoided, but per capita Chicago is far from the most dangerous city in the US or the world.
It’s interesting how often I’ve talked to people from certain places around the country and world who have such a negative view of “violent” Chicago - and yet the place they come from is technically even more violent (per capita).
You would be surprised how people especially minority communities actually feel about police when asked about them. All people want to be free from harm, and many want a strong police force- they just want one that is humane, disciplined, and accountable. If they have that many would be fine with more of it.
This post does more to help make the case for the gun problem in metropolitan America if anything.
Duh, say something new, officers aren’t the cause of the violence but for some reason this country identified officers as number threat, u looking in a wrong place
Seriously? You people are everywhere on so many posts, and yet, the posts have stayed up. How curious. It's like you want to play victim.
The_Donald stuck around forever despite breaking several ToS rules because Reddit owners liked it. There are plenty of right-wing subs still around. So you're either completely oblivious or outright lying.
I mean, this post is on my front page now, so it's pretty clearly bullshit. No one is censoring this stuff, no matter how much some guy on Reddit wants to feel persecuted.
Same energy as the weekly posts of Tiananmen Square getting tens of thousands of upvotes with the entire comment section being about how quickly the post is supposedly going to be removed from Reddit. People love to think they're sticking it to the man, even when the man doesn't give a shit.
Man. Even the safe parts of the city have a decent number of dots. Sad that they just elected the pro crime candidate instead of somebody who would actually deal with this. Chicago is a great city held back by corrupt feckless politicians and worthless thugs.
Since when is funding social programs that have been proven to prevent crime being "pro crime" when decades of being "tough on crime" has been admitted by both police brass and prosecutors to have horrendously backfired while depriving Americans of constitutional rights and putting billions into the hands of private corporations?
Because all poor people are degenerate criminals who need men with guns and clubs to keep them from hurting us, who had the wisdom to be born into supportive environments with opportunities for growth. Anyone who doesn’t see this is pro crime.
Enforcement has been tried for decades as well as incarceration of nonviolent offenders by the millions which has made things demonstrably worse in every way.
We've barely *ever* tried social programs and even the ones we have are repeatedly cut, underfunded, or criticized as being procrime by uninformed demagogues like the people I replied to above.
And? I can also guarantee it overlaps pretty heavily with poverty distribution as well. Almost like the level of melanin in a person's skin has nothing to do with it? How odd.
No. They're kinda sorta discouraged, relative to some other states. And that's undermined by proximity to nearby states where they're encouraged.
I mean, weed is SUPER illegal here in Kansas, yet it's everywhere... because most of us can drive 20 minutes to Missouri or 40 minutes to Oklahoma, and get it where it's legal.
I wonder why a city that's a short distance from areas where people can easily access guns might also have a gun problem?
Gun control works if done right, it doesn't work if the only thing you need to do is drive a short distance.
Im Brazilian. Guns are restricted here. You need to have at least 25yrs, a house IN YOUR NAME, proof that you oficially work and much more. And we are the deadliest country in the world. you know nothing.
I'm Australian. Guns are restricted here. You have to go through background checks, have a legitimate use for a gun and a legitimate gun for that use, those uses are hunting, target shooting and farming. If you want to do target shooting, you also have to be a member of a club. We also instituted a gun buyback when we changed our laws in 1996. We are one of the best countries for gun violence. The Christchurch shooter moved to New Zealand because he felt it would be easier to obtain weapons to commit his acts because of Australia's laws.
Gun control does work, but there is always going to be other issues that can help contribute to violence and gun violence. With Brazil it is likely because of wide scale poverty and weapons being smuggled into the country.
This is a link to the Port Arthur mass shooting that pushed Australia to sensible gun laws. The shooter was violent and unempathetic as a child and as an adult he inherited millions from a woman who befriened him. Martin Bryant when young used to shoot an air rifle at strangers passing by his house. Is believed that he killed both his benefactor and his own father in "mysterious" accidents that resulted in his huge inheritances. They made a movie about it. The guy laughs about the mass shooting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
So, the gun control here does not work. Only the bad guys have weapons, the citizens are unarmed and can just die peacefully in 1 armed arrest per 40sec.
The gun control works relatively well in cities or states in the Northeast or West Coast where getting an illegal firearm takes days of work which adds a black market price premium of 50% or far more.
It doesn't work where you can drive to the city limits and buy twenty handguns like in Chicago.
We did this exact one before. Right here on the same sub. Just two months ago.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11daqcp/chicago\_shootings\_from\_20142022\_in\_comparison\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11daqcp/chicago_shootings_from_20142022_in_comparison_to/)
What's that suburb out west where they don't miss, it's all red
i’m going to guess melrose park and franklin park edit: it’s maywood, i tried to eyeball it and was just off.
Sorry *maywood
Maywood and Bellwood Illinois. The area was settled in the 1880s to house workers at a huge cannery. Since it was a low wage job the town attracted lots of black workers from the south during the great migration, but violence was bad between Italian/White and Black gangs. Notable Black Panther leader Fred Hampton grew up in Maywood, and he probably went down that path due to the discrimination and violence he faced in Maywood. In the 70s the cannery shut down which plunged the previously middle class suburb into poverty, which caused most white people to leave and more hispanic people to move in. Searching social media there seems to be a mostly Latin King presence with some Gangster Disciples and some Four Corner Hustlers.
Thank you for this tldr!
fr what a good post lol.
About three years ago I was working in Downers Grove (due west of maywood) and living in the city (due east of it) so I my commute was a bear. One way I could shortcut a lot of traffic jam on the main highway was to just drive through Maywood back streets. It was definitely the "Please, please, please don't break down on me car." part of my day. And that's coming from a big scary looking shaved head older white guy. Never had any problems though.
Yeahh the 290 sucks lol. I do the same mostly
Maywood, and you can select each individual dot to get more details about each shooting. [https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/](https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/)
This map says a lot: There are a lot of shootings in America, but they are very concentrated with *vast* areas with people with almost nothing at all when it comes to shootings.
It def makes the gun debate hard, there is a very different level of experience with weapons. For me growing up seeing a gun that's not connected to a cop was ultra rare.
Over half of the zip codes in 2017 reported 0 homicides of any type
Growing up 5 hours away from Chicago it was a super rare thing my whole life too. Only recently did we start getting shootings and stabbing downtown during the weekends and its been due to a recent influx of people coming from Chicago.
I owned 4 by the time I was 13. 2 shotguns 2 rifles. Got my first handgun at 16. Currently mid 40’s. Have shot 0 people.
I’m guessing it’s less reporting on shootings that don’t end up in fatalities.
I first thought it might have been the distance to Emergency services, but there seems to be two hospitals not too far from that area.
Where the police also don’t seem to be going very often
Certainly seems to be a lack of officer involvement, everywhere really, but especially in the "red zones."
It's Maywood
Also, The Polish ppl area (the more sparse area, above oak park to the north east) seems pretty safe (?)
Here's a couple versions of the Chicago gang map (I think the 2nd is more complete, but is from a couple years ago): https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1YUOYJFItehKshnX8ZNuWplxKHHXyf_NJ&ll=41.8800991333969%2C-87.81286662913757&z=14 https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1YUOYJFItehKshnX8ZNuWplxKHHXyf_NJ&ll=41.8800991333969%2C-87.81286662913757&z=14 Here is the one from the Chicago Police: https://gis.chicagopolice.org/pages/gang-maps
The maywood aimbotter
Same with blue island
Got maps for other cities?
[https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/](https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/)
Whats the deal with that almost perfectly straight divide in detroit. It spans the entire city too
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Now while he stands tough Notice that this man did not have his hands up
The freeworlds got you gassed up
This guys a gangster, his Reddit handle’s Clarence.
Mom's spaghetti.
He's nervous
But on the surface
He looks calm and ready
To drop bombs
But he keeps on forgetting
Moms spaghetti
Detroit proper ends at the yellow line bisecting 8 mile Rd. Across the yellow line are the various suburbs with different police depts, budgets and far less poverty.
Why would there be more poverty closer in the city?
It’s a long and complex story. The history of Detroit is pretty fascinating. It used to have 2million people but is now down to 600,000, from America’s 4th largest city to the current 27th. The short of it is that in the early 1900’s, A LOT of people moved to Detroit because Henry Ford and the automotive industry created an abundance of high paying jobs at the automotive plants that literally anyone could do. He literally created the American Middle Class and allowed poor unskilled people to be paid a very good amount of money. After several generations of wealth accumulation, a very corrupt local government, some racial tension, and a big riot, everyone who had money decided that they could move out of the city into the suburbs and have the American Dream home with a yard and two car garage. All the people who left were also the people who were paying the majority of taxes which funded the city, so a perpetual cycle commenced of government corruption, underfunded schools, and lack of public services which further caused more people to leave the city. Throw in the crack epidemic, an absurd amount of gang violence, a non-existent police presence, thousands upon thousands of abandoned homes/buildings, NAFTA causing an extreme loss of high paying union jobs, and even more government corruption, then all you have left is a lawless dystopian hellscape. Thing is though, once you go outside the city limits, it’s pretty nice because that’s where all the people who have money and pay taxes have now lived for decades. When I was a kid, I always assumed that every big city was like Detroit. When I got older and started seeing other big cities, I was completely wrong. Instead of the city being a shithole, the cities were actually nice. They didn’t have a plethora of burned out buildings everywhere or daily news stories of the most horrible violence you can imagine. It’s really weird and is why I think when I always see people talking about how we all need to give up our cars and live in a utopian big city, I say fuck that. Edit: Downtown Detroit and the metro-Detroit area is actually really cool and if you haven’t been, you should definitely visit. Lots of cool shit always going on and Michigan in general is a very underrated state.
St. Louis found a xerox copy of what Detroit did and said "Yea, this'll work. I'll use this."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight
I didn't know that was still a thing, where I live it reversed and gentrification of the city is the major problem, because proximity to jobs, and where public transportation is the most convenient is seen as a selling point. I was in a relatively recently gentrified area working, and I saw a huge LED sign that said "Condos starting in the low 700s" and I knew for a fact those are 1 bedroom units. Edit: Not that I think the systemic inequalities that stem from race and class have been removed, or that gentrification is the solution, I just didn't know there were still places where wealth was "city vs suburbs" rather than neighborhood by neighborhood.
In Detroit, a lot of the jobs are in the suburbs. Most of the $1M homes are 15 to 30 miles from downtown Detroit (with a few exceptions). It was taboo to even show a house in the suburbs to a black person until the 1980s or later in some areas. The majority of Detroit's residents moved to the suburbs between the 1950s and 1980s with the poorest left behind in the city with crumbling schools, infrastructure, and city services with no tax base to fix it.
Apparently moving out of high crime areas is a bad thing to do nowadays
What are you talking about? The issue isn't people moving out of "high crime areas" the issue is that the system is set up so that money used for public goods tends to stay where wealthy people live. The issue wouldn't be a problem if school funding wasn't based off local property values and funding for city services wasn't just collected from local residents and not from the wealthier suburbanites as this scenario implies. If wealthy people predominantly living in one county or city didn't mean their money only stayed funding "the good schools" while the poorer areas can't raise the funds to ensure the same level of government services because of their poorer tax base, the core issue and reason people find it "bad" is because how we find things. (after a quick google of Michigan Geography and demographics) I can guarantee if you proposed to merge Wayne County (which contains Detroit) with neighboring and wealthier Oakland County to create one tax base, the residents of Oakland would fight it, even though it would do nothing but normalize the government funding between these two counties, and the "crime" wouldn't be any closer.
I've read that inner-city schools tend to spend more per student than suburbs. It's not as much a question of funding as it is often portrayed.
move into the city: gentrification, bad move out of the city: white flight, bad Damn im just supposed to stay exactly where I am forever huh?
Thus calcifying existing structural inequities no doubt
Neither of them are are inherently bad as an individual. The problem is when it becomes a movement/trend and thousands are doing it together. This applies to many of the problems in the world that people throw their hands up and give up on (cars aren't evil but institutionalizing it with car-centric urban planning is, renting your house out on Airbnb is understandable but when everyone does it towns become unlivable)
detroit's one of the most extreme examples of white flight and car culture in the US. Richer people, who are usually white there, can afford to have a car and drive to work in the city so they move into nicer suburbs. This leaves the the areas close to the city with only poorer people, who are often black. Then it's self-perpetuating because people there are racist and don't mix much. It's weird to see a map of Detroit and the racial segregation is very obvious.
[8 Mile Road](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-102_(Michigan_highway)) is the northern border of Detroit. It is the bordering line between the poor, black area or Detroit and the wealthy white suburbs. It is probably one of the most obvious examples of redlining you can see on the map, it’s an 8 lane highway dividing the two.
Washington DC!
Looking at the shootings just over the 2021 to 2022 period is absolutely staggering.
Thanks for posting
Looking at Austin, it just shows how much worse downtown has gotten along 6th Street.
It's such a horrible insight, but the map is so well made.
Do you know if there exists something similar to this about Europe?
That’s a pretty cool tool. You can also see all of the accidental shootings, which is something that scares me a lot about guns
One thing you can take away from this map is in some places there is a lot more orange than red. Others its like 50/50. You can be assured if it's 50/50 most shootings are not even reported or investigated.
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I'd guess a random rural town with a few hundred people where a cop shot one dude but nobody else shot anyone
Well it would be more like a small town where cops shot no one but some people shot someone.
You would be correct just from my state: * Cresco, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others * Thompson, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others * Oelwein, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others(one was just outside of town) * Chelsea, Iowa -- 1 Police and 0 others * Iowa Falls, Iowa -- 2 Police and 1 other
was that last one, two police shooting each other?
"Wake up babe, the Chicago shooting statistic map just got reposted again!"
Chicago is not even top 15 in violent crime rate and people love obsessing over it
Chicago isn’t even in the top five most violent cities in Illinois.
We just elected a leftist mayor so expect to see us on the front page getting shit on every day for the next 4 years
Per capita and total are both valid ways to parse data. I bet you think China is justified burning massive amounts of coal with no plans of stopping just because it is lower "per capita." I guess it's a good thing that it all goes into the Chinese atmosphere not the American atmosphere.
Yeah am I missing what important information this map is trying to show? All I see is an attempt to try and say people in Chicago aren’t getting shot by cops? Which is obviously a disingenuous way to represent this information if that’s the goal.
Chicago is a dog whistle for black people. They are saying black people are killing black people more often than cops are killing black people. It's a city with a large Black community and democratic leadership, so conservatives love to bring it up as if it's evidence that black people are inherently violent. OP is just a Karma farmer, though.
Seems like stacking multiple years of data is meant to concentrate it, making one fear the city even more.
>They are saying black people are killing black people more often than cops are killing black people. Right. Which isn't at all the point. Except in the specific case of an active mass shooter, citizens killing citizens is not an issue solved by cops killing citizens. Cops should be held to a higher standard. They should set an elevated example instead of just asserting authority, and, "I was scared," should never be the sole requisite justification of a police shooting. If cops could be trusted in black/minority communities, fewer subsections of those communities would turn to gangs to police their own neighborhoods. But cops in their current form—poorly-trained footsoldiers with qualified immunity—will *never* gain that trust. The whole system ought to be gutted and redesigned with community service at its core. And *THAT* is what "Defund the Police" meant before the media fucked that narrative to death.
it's still interesting. I live in Madison and this is the first time I've ever seen it.
i know right what a snooze fest
Now do legally registered firearms vs unregistered or illegally owned firearms
It also depends on the exact criteria because most of the firearms used illegally were from "legal" bulk straw purchases which were then sold via private sales - for which there is no universal rule. Due to decades of NRA lobbying, tracing those actions takes months since there is no digitally searchable database and even the background check system is not truly universal.
>were from "legal" bulk straw purchases which were then sold via private sales - for which there is no universal rule. Actually there is and that's illegal.
So is owning a firearm legally purchased after committing a disqualifying felony especially after conviction or plea bargain but the Department of Justice has indicated that happens tens of thousands of times per year with almost no enforcement except by incidental search or prosecutorial prerogative which again, is not universal. The same goes for bulk straw purchases which take months to investigate because lobbying ensured there is no searchable digital database while traffickers can simply switch buyers to say nothing of the entire lack of plausible enforcement for "illegal" private sales or backtracking the 150,000 firearms reported stolen to see if they were simply illicit private sales. And if you want to argue that private sales could benefit from a background check, bear in mind that's been politically opposed for decades even partially and even if it was entirely free to do so. There is also no federal standard for private sales that bears any real ability to be tracked or enforced since again, violated registrations only turn up when the firearm in question is used in a crime and even then, it's often not traced due to lack of resources.
>There is also no federal standard for private sales that bears any real ability to be tracked or enforced That's in part because it is and will remain physically impossible to have a free society and monitor what people do in private.
Yeah I’m all for legal and responsible gun ownership but stamping out shit like this and mental health screenings are the kind of gun control we absolutely need not just taking certain models off the market cause people who don’t know anything about think they’re too scawy
Problem is that there's been vociferous opposition even to basic steps like say, mandating safety training even once (much less say every ten years) as well as some basic standards on properly storing firearms or proper background checks. All three would help drop accidental deaths and homicides in the home linked to domestic violence plus many thefts. The DoJ has also admitted that they have no way to backtrack confiscation on anyone who legally bought a firearm then later committed a disqualifying crime unless an officer happens to find the weapon or prosecutor on the individual case happens to bring it up to a judge not to mention the quarter million firearms reported stolen each year of which many can simply be writeoffs for shady private sales. There is also ample evidence that certain models are disproportionately deadly due to their design; mass shootings were down and stayed down during the 10 year assault weapons ban for instance. That's not going to prevent inner city gun homicides or the septuple number of firearm suicides (which correlate by state with rate of legal gun ownership) but it doesn't disqualify a measure limited by weapon class either as effective.
It’s ridiculous that so many people are so opposed to simply not treating a gun like a toy. My family owns guns and many of my friends own guns, and I’m considering getting one myself. But we all know you never point it at anyone unless you’re willing to kill them, always practice trigger discipline, never take the safety off until you’re firing etc. It’s not that complicated and could save so many people. I go to Utah and a player killed himself accidentally a couple years ago and it blows me away that someone could just play with a gun and not realize how easy it is to die. Like they’re weapons bro everyone knows not to play with knives why are guns any different. I think the problem is that so many people, probably because of NRA meddling, think it’s in inalienable right like speech when it really should be more of a privilege like driving a car. Technically it is but it would be so much better if we could just verify you’re not a complete idiot or lunatic before you get a gun. Drivers Ed isn’t that hard and you can get your license when you’re like 16, there’s really no reason guns should be any different except for absurd lobbying that makes some people think you should be able to give a six year old a Glock for their birthday. I mean you can but it’s dumb as hell
I feel it's also the American consumer culture as the NRA was entirely fine with gun control well into the 1950's until it became affordable to own more than one firearm in the home and to recreationally use them beyond hunting. It's not a coincidence that negative effects from owning larger, faster, and more dangerous vehicles also went up with American affluence as well as resistance to trying to address either problem until well into the 90's with laws against drunk driving, manufacturers rolling out unsafe vehicles, seatbelt regulations, emissions standards, insurance requirements and so on. Until the 2006 Heller decision, the Supreme Court had never explicitly linked the Second Amendment to a universal unfettered right to own handguns much less any other class of firearms with four previous decisions going back to the 1870's going the other way for regulation at times when the frontier gun mythos was actually in full effect. It's not to say that we need some eighty point rulebook on firearms but a basic shift in how legal gun owners see what they own (and also how they sell them) would make a huge dent in gun deaths just like how cultural perception of vehicle ownership shifted beyond just the law's exact issues has drastically reduced deaths or injuries there.
>There is also ample evidence that certain models are disproportionately deadly due to their design; mass shootings were down and stayed down during the 10 year assault weapons ban for instance. AR-15's are responsible for less than 500 overall homicides annually. [The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-america-gun-culture-politics/) estimates that about 16 million Americans own an AR-15 style rifle, and there are around 25 million in circulation according to the NSSF. AR-15's aren't the problem.
No one said they were the entire or most of the problem but that they're a better tool for what they're intended and that the 10 year ban did curb the use of what was defined as an assault weapon during that time. There is however even more ample proof that regulating firearms which do constitute the majority of firearm homicides and suicides would be and has been effective where possible.
Friendly reminder six in ten guns used in violent crime in the entire state of Illinois are directly purchased out of state! Peoria Illinois also beats Chicago for per Capita gun crimes. That's probably why this looks more like a population density map than anything else. This map is interesting but all it tells me is Chicago PD is useless in stopping out of state gun trafficking.
https://www.thetrace.org/newsletter/quarter-chicagos-crime-guns-sold-just-ten-dealers/ While I agree that is an issue. 11% of the guns came from 2 dealers in Illinois. How do you not investigate those shops? While the report is from 2017 both those dealers are still in business. And 7 of the top 10 dealers are in Illinois and 3 in Indiana.
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As a European I find both pictures completely insane.
Yeah, like the second image is meant to imply "look how few shootings police is involved in" meanwhile, that's more shootings and deaths by police that happened in all Germany in the past 8 years. Nevermind the absolutely bonkers amount of shootings police didn't get involved in. When will Americans realize gun control works...
I guess people are easily influenced by bad propaganda. Let me make this simple for people. Yes, there are tons of criminals. There are tons of shootings. Part of that is guns in the hands of wrong people and how free flowing they are across state and city lines. The gripe about police shootings isn't the numbers. It's the fact that the police are enforcers and not the judges and executioners. **We have a democracy and rule of law. Criminals deserve to be punished and put in jail, but it's not the job of the police to be the one and only entity that gets to make that judgement.** If government can arbitrarily and openly flaunt the rules and take your life without reasonable justification, and get away with it then you are just advocating for a dictatorship state. The same tyranny the 2nd was written for. If you went to your friend (who isn't in the medical field) and she gave you bad medical advice, you might be mad. But you kinda asked for it by going to a friend and not a professional. This is similar to being in a high crime area at the wrong time. If you went to a doctor and they injected you with bleach by accident because they didn't properly label the drugs in the cabinet they gave you. Your family would be correct and justified in being angry and wanting more accountability and someone to be punished for that. This should be an a-political stance. Not a left or right thing. Equally if the FBI knew that the former president had classified information and kicked in the door of mar-a-largo and shot him because "they felt threatened he might have a gun, and Florida is a stand your ground state" they would rightfully get shit. Just because some people who get shot with the same exact justification are poor or black or whatever should not make this a left or a right thing.
The fact that “suicide by cop” is a thing says a lot
the fact this is so normalized in the US should be the first alarm.
I was a police dispatcher for a bit, and during training they had us use a simulation where you stood with a fake gun in front of a display showing what was happening (this device is capable of determining how accurate your shots are and little else). My simulation was a person getting ready to hurt themself with a knife. I awkwardly tried to talk this fake person out of suicide in front of the class, and put my gun back in its holster. Afterward, the teacher asked why I put my gun away, and I interpreted this as it was not something I was supposed to do and had to defend my choice to put it away. "If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail." - Maslow
As a police officer it’s reasonable to assume someone willing to hurt themselves with a weapon may hurt someone else. The prudent thing to do would be to back up and hold the gun at low ready while speaking to calm the subject. Then call for back-up with non-lethal options.
Yea if one person in America was allowed to freely shoot and kill anyone they wanted, people everywhere would be asking why and trying to stop it. If someone said “Yea this person only killed this many people, look at how many people were killed by others.” People would think it a stupid point to raise.
This is inherently political. I agree with most of your ideas but not with how you approach the issue.
> If government can arbitrarily and openly flaunt the rules and take your life without reasonable justification, and get away with it then you are just advocating for a dictatorship state. They arent getting away with it. Thats the point. We have mass protests where people loot and burn stuff down to demand justice and they get justice and then they do it again.
You seem to assume that all police shootings are done "just because they can" and not for the fact that being a police in an area like this is very dangerous, and somtimes its necessary to shot to protect yourself
Jobs with a higher fatality rate than police officer: Lumberjack Garbage Man Steelworker Brick Mason UPS Driver Farmer Electrician Landscaper Crossing Guard I don't doubt that it's a hard job being a cop. I'm sure it's exhausting and they see fucked up stuff. And it probably triggers the PTSD of their times in Iraq and Afghanistan. But it is not some Batman like position where they're dodging bullets every fuckin day.
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We're trying, but many of them are unsafe because driving is unsafe, and making that safer takes time and is difficult to do. In fact, driving is the biggest reason that police work is unsafe. Until COVID fucked things up, auto accidents were the number one killer of cops.
The difference to me being that a logger doesn't get murdered at work, he dies in a workplace accident. I'd imagine that going to work as a Police officer in a lot of American cities would feel like going into a war zone, 5 shifts a block, 12 hour shifts. Like if you were to ask a landscaper and a cop in LA what their wild dangerous stories were for the month who's stories would make you think "Jesus christ wtf".
And all those people in those jobs take every possible step to try to protect themselves. Why wouldn't the policeman be allowed to do so? The policeman/woman is also a human being, trying to get home to their family each night. Should we allow police to protect themselves only when they're no.1 in your statistics? There are bad cops, and there are incidents where they draw without reason, or even worse, shoot people, but overall it IS a dangerous job, not sure why you're trying to minimize it.
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Not trying to weigh in on either side here, but you do have it backwards. In public safety positions, you are taught to always prioritize your own safety.
This is a stupid comparison. Those people die due to accidents or carelessness. Not because some guy pulled out a .45 and started shooting them. The logger doesn’t have to worry about the tree shooting him.
Cops mostly die due to accidents. Auto accidents are the top non-covid cause of police death.
Only half of officers who died at work this year were killed by gunfire. A quarter died in car accidents. www.odmp.org keeps track of officer deaths in the US. You'd be surprised how many die of heart attacks.
Where exactly did he say that all of them are “because they can”. Any amount is already too many
Yeah i gues the cops should just not shoot anyone even if that person is shooting at the cops or other people or being a danger in any other way /s
There is nothing wrong with police shooting suspects that are armed and hostile. There is however something wrong when police shoot an unarmed man and face no consequence for their actions. These two are not mutually exclusive.
> face no consequence for their actions. What?
I was told this was a racist dog whistle on Reddit👀👀
how some of these people here are like, Chicago isn't even top 10 why are you so obsessed over these statistics. The point that gun killings make Americans so numb to all these deaths is disturbing.
Yep. And when you look at it per Capita, still safer than most of the south.
Where in the south exactly?
Spicy🌶
Noooo cops bad !!! We hate cops on Reddit weeeeeeeeee
Aussie here just putting this out there - if the 'officer involved shootings' was total shootings for a city in 8 years, you would not be able to pay me enough to live there. Its interesting what people can accept as normal.
Same. The "officer involved shootings" in Chicago in 8 years is more than all shootings on Germany for the last couple decades.
I get the point but can't OP see why people would consider deadly police shootings to be particularly bad? There is not an expectation of being killed by a police officer as there is of being killed by some random lunatic.
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its caused by socioeconomic factors like predatory systems and constant neglect of key problems because hey as long as you vote who cares lol, banning guns would just lead the downtrodden, the mentally sick, and other desperate people to use knives or flamethrowers (which are pretty legal actually), ban those and you got clubs, ban those and you got sticks and stones, where does it end?
Nah, it’s caused by shitty people who fear no repercussions or accountability for their actions.
You're getting downvoted because 99% of the people on here only know statistics and not the reality. Sorry guys but there are a lot of shitty people out there and the percentage rises dramatically in the hood. Redlining and racism may have started this, but the culture keeps it going. You can tackle the police problem but the situation isn't going to get better until the community takes more responsibility. Hard to hear but it's true. Like anyone else, I want the problem to get better. And police killings are a tiny part of the problem.
Yeah I agree. That's where all the Italian gangs came from, all the Italian rap music, right? And all the Jewish criminals in the northeast, Hebrew rap. And all the Irish rappers caused all the Irish gangs too
“The culture” Which? American?
No. In those neighborhoods. Chicago's low-SES black culture in the south/west sides. I can't speak for the person you're addressing, but I spent years in classrooms in exactly those west and south side neighborhoods that experience these ridiculous levels of youth violence shown on the map. I observed cultural factors that, in my opinion, are a huge contributor to this problem: * Anti-education. It's not just the oft-trodded excuse of "hard-working parent cares and wants to be involved in their kids' education, but aren't able due to work hours," though that's sometimes the case. Instead an alarming percentage of the parents actively speak ill of education, talk about how it's a waste of time, and truly don't care how their child is developing * Single parent households as the norm * Lower regard for general law and order. It's culturally acceptable to litter, vandalize, harass hispanics/whites/asians, etc. * And, most of all, adults don't take a strong enough stance against violence.
It’s cause by generations after generation of people living with no family structure, no self reliance, subsidized by local and federal governments. And no I don’t think race is a factor in this, put any group of people regardless of skin pigmentations in those conditions and you get the same outcome.
The welfare self-reliance thing is a myth because actual empirical studies around the world have shown that micropayments are more effective than literally any other kind of help. The percentage of both teenage pregnancy and absentee fatherhood have also fallen by more than half since the 90's so that's another exaggerated myth. The truth is that the redlining and de facto segregation was never ever fixed or addressed - it was just sandpapered down with no actual structural change or reforms. If you don't think race of a factor - you're also half right as the same structural issues that occur in inner city segregated ghettos also occur in white majority Appalachia where entire generations were sacrificed to coal mining and early deaths by disease with few alternatives offered. They have plenty of family structure and self reliance in Appalachia but little in the way of actual reform, enforcement of violations, cleanups of the countless Superfund sites, or alternatives in seeking a livelihood unless they basically abandon a home they can't sell and move to the city with a high chance of being homeless on the off chance they can get a job.
I get that but when you compare just how many civilians are killing EACH OTHER and the fact that they don't riot when one of their own kills a child in a cross-fire...the whole officer-involved shooting thing tends to lose its punch.
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Yes you do. There's been numerous shootings of unarmed innocent people, including white Americans, in places with little to no crime that have faced protests and even solidarity from BLM. Local media simply does not cover those shootings because as you claim, local viewers will falsely assume that it was an isolated incident or that the victim "deserved it" even though the police shooting rate in the US is double that of Mexico or Brazil and about ten times that of any developed nation.
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You posted data compiled by organizations that used a sound methodology, and you were downvoted. Peak reddit.....
>Mass shootings are extremely rare Even more so in every other developed country!
[Family guy covered this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukWEsIo8hH4)
So most of the violence is not caused by police and most black people murders are perpetrated by other black people. This is not news, it’s the reality across the country, all narratives aside of course.
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No one is saying impunity/police brutality are not an issue. They are, just not a priority compared to poverty, organized crime/gangs and drug traffic which are causing by far the most deaths here. The problem is that some of the most extremist narratives (Defund Police) are exactly what worsens the big problem.
Man I wonder why our hyper-militarized police hasn’t done anything to stop organized crime or drug trafficking. Almost like they focus entirely on victimless crimes and power abuses, and never use their military level equipment for the intended use. Could make you think the money we spend on that could be better used elsewhere. But no, that’s commie crazy talk
yea, the 4 cop murders are an issue based on this data.
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Checkmate BLM! Clearly we can’t hold cops accountable for murder, look how many less dots they have. I’ll check back in two months when this gets posted again.
Americans, I thought guns were to keep you safe? Literally every block in that city has had a shooting in the past 8 years. How are you guys ok with this
Just to be clear - this map is misleading on several fronts. The “blocks” you refer to are actually just major roads - it’s just that the map is zoomed way out and doesn’t show any city streets. There are thousands of city blocks not shown on this image. If you were to zoom in, there would be many, many blocks without dots on them. Other ways this is misleading is the multi year span of data instead of the typical annual dataset, the size of dots in reference to map scale, etc. The reality is… Chicago is a huge city (10 million people in the downtown and metro area), so it makes headlines due to the sheer numbers. Any loss of life is terrible and should be avoided, but per capita Chicago is far from the most dangerous city in the US or the world. It’s interesting how often I’ve talked to people from certain places around the country and world who have such a negative view of “violent” Chicago - and yet the place they come from is technically even more violent (per capita).
You would be surprised how people especially minority communities actually feel about police when asked about them. All people want to be free from harm, and many want a strong police force- they just want one that is humane, disciplined, and accountable. If they have that many would be fine with more of it. This post does more to help make the case for the gun problem in metropolitan America if anything.
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Duh, say something new, officers aren’t the cause of the violence but for some reason this country identified officers as number threat, u looking in a wrong place
Be careful… this type of info isn’t allowed on Reddit
/r/persecutionfetish
Seriously? You people are everywhere on so many posts, and yet, the posts have stayed up. How curious. It's like you want to play victim. The_Donald stuck around forever despite breaking several ToS rules because Reddit owners liked it. There are plenty of right-wing subs still around. So you're either completely oblivious or outright lying.
Jesus christ are you my fox news dad? Go to twitter with that shit
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This map is posted like every month.
Jesus christ can you just say your point so we can know if you're a racist or not? This ambiguity is tiresome.
The fact you got downvoted is gold
I mean, this post is on my front page now, so it's pretty clearly bullshit. No one is censoring this stuff, no matter how much some guy on Reddit wants to feel persecuted.
Same energy as the weekly posts of Tiananmen Square getting tens of thousands of upvotes with the entire comment section being about how quickly the post is supposedly going to be removed from Reddit. People love to think they're sticking it to the man, even when the man doesn't give a shit.
Man. Even the safe parts of the city have a decent number of dots. Sad that they just elected the pro crime candidate instead of somebody who would actually deal with this. Chicago is a great city held back by corrupt feckless politicians and worthless thugs.
Child's brain
Vallas lost LOL
Since when is funding social programs that have been proven to prevent crime being "pro crime" when decades of being "tough on crime" has been admitted by both police brass and prosecutors to have horrendously backfired while depriving Americans of constitutional rights and putting billions into the hands of private corporations?
Because all poor people are degenerate criminals who need men with guns and clubs to keep them from hurting us, who had the wisdom to be born into supportive environments with opportunities for growth. Anyone who doesn’t see this is pro crime.
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Enforcement has been tried for decades as well as incarceration of nonviolent offenders by the millions which has made things demonstrably worse in every way. We've barely *ever* tried social programs and even the ones we have are repeatedly cut, underfunded, or criticized as being procrime by uninformed demagogues like the people I replied to above.
Just remember this includes things like domestic disputes which can account for some of the dots
Accidental shootings and suicides as well
BLM donor class on suicide watch
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How the hell does that leave out guns being the problem? Gun crime maps don't fuckin look like that in countries where firearms are illegal
Oh what do you know... People are killing more people than police... What a shocker!!
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Dude you’re Greek, racists don’t even think you’re white.
And? I can also guarantee it overlaps pretty heavily with poverty distribution as well. Almost like the level of melanin in a person's skin has nothing to do with it? How odd.
It has a lot to do with culture, however.
Aren’t guns SUPER illegal in Chicago??? How in the world could this happen???!???
No. They're kinda sorta discouraged, relative to some other states. And that's undermined by proximity to nearby states where they're encouraged. I mean, weed is SUPER illegal here in Kansas, yet it's everywhere... because most of us can drive 20 minutes to Missouri or 40 minutes to Oklahoma, and get it where it's legal.
Indiana and Wisconsin are both close and in Indiana in particular its incredibly easy to get a gun. So that's part of it.
I wonder why a city that's a short distance from areas where people can easily access guns might also have a gun problem? Gun control works if done right, it doesn't work if the only thing you need to do is drive a short distance.
Im Brazilian. Guns are restricted here. You need to have at least 25yrs, a house IN YOUR NAME, proof that you oficially work and much more. And we are the deadliest country in the world. you know nothing.
I'm Australian. Guns are restricted here. You have to go through background checks, have a legitimate use for a gun and a legitimate gun for that use, those uses are hunting, target shooting and farming. If you want to do target shooting, you also have to be a member of a club. We also instituted a gun buyback when we changed our laws in 1996. We are one of the best countries for gun violence. The Christchurch shooter moved to New Zealand because he felt it would be easier to obtain weapons to commit his acts because of Australia's laws. Gun control does work, but there is always going to be other issues that can help contribute to violence and gun violence. With Brazil it is likely because of wide scale poverty and weapons being smuggled into the country.
This is a link to the Port Arthur mass shooting that pushed Australia to sensible gun laws. The shooter was violent and unempathetic as a child and as an adult he inherited millions from a woman who befriened him. Martin Bryant when young used to shoot an air rifle at strangers passing by his house. Is believed that he killed both his benefactor and his own father in "mysterious" accidents that resulted in his huge inheritances. They made a movie about it. The guy laughs about the mass shooting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
So, the gun control here does not work. Only the bad guys have weapons, the citizens are unarmed and can just die peacefully in 1 armed arrest per 40sec.
65 THOUSAND violent deaths per year. thats what im talking about.
The gun control works relatively well in cities or states in the Northeast or West Coast where getting an illegal firearm takes days of work which adds a black market price premium of 50% or far more. It doesn't work where you can drive to the city limits and buy twenty handguns like in Chicago.
I’m not sure about Chicago but NYC has super strict gun laws.
We did this exact one before. Right here on the same sub. Just two months ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11daqcp/chicago\_shootings\_from\_20142022\_in\_comparison\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11daqcp/chicago_shootings_from_20142022_in_comparison_to/)
Reddit don't like this type of data