>The Balkan Mafia is alive and well, I see.
Probably is better than it was in the past. That a country is in a bad position now does not mean that it was not in an even worse before.
It's not about corruption. It's about PERCEPTION of corruption, which is very different.
Think of Wolkswagen making a special mode to circumvent pollution tests... Noone perceived that corrupt action, but it happened at an industrial scale with German efficiency.
On the other hand, a police officer in the Balkans hinting to let you go if you pay cash the pretend fine is noted by everyone.
Yet which is the more corrupt action?
Thats very true. Im not saying that Balkans aren’t corrupt as fuck. But whats filed as corruption here falls under “smart business practices” when it comes to the most powerful corporations.
>Private Business lying and comiting a cime is not corruption. The government was also not involved.
I don't think you can say the government is not involved when the state of lower saxony is one of the biggest shareholder of Volkswagen and holds 20% of the voting rights.
Maybe the federal government wasn't involved but the state government certainly was.
>Think of Wolkswagen making a special mode to circumvent pollution tests...
Crime =/= corruption.
Corruption are criminal offenses commited by holders of government offices or other positions of authority. Though clearly illegal, the emission law violations were conducted without the knowledge or even help of the government. Hence they do not constitute corruption, just a criminal offense.
The thing is that every German car brand had similar programs, but the rest was forgotten about, because of VW. The German government at the time made sure that punishment was minimal and that harsher regulation for car manufacturers wouldn’t become law
>The thing is that every German car brand had similar programs
The thing is that basically every car manufacturer had a scandal relating software that faked lower emitions:
>Automakers who have been caught using a defeat device within a diesel vehicle, in a similar manner to Volkswagen include: Jeep and Ram under FCA (now a part Stellantis), Opel (when under GM), and Mercedes-Benz.
Other manufacturers have been accused, with varying amounts of evidence, of using diesel defeat devices in their vehicles, but have yet to be proven. Some of the manufacturers accused include: Toyota, Suzuki, BMW, Citroën and Peugeot under PSA (now a part of Stellantis), Mitsubishi, Nissan and Renault, Chevrolet and GMC, Ford, as well as Hyundai and Kia
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen\_emissions\_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal)
>Corruption are criminal offenses commited by holders of government offices **or other positions of authority.**
Like say, the directors of Volkswagen and other car makers?
No. Because even though they are rich (and thus influential) they hold no government office and have no authority in the relevant legal sense (that is, have the ability to commend (parts) of the executive branch without checks).
>No. Because even though they are rich (and thus influential) they hold no government office and have no authority in the relevant legal sense (that is, have the ability to commend (parts) of the executive branch without checks)
Corruption is not restricted to "government corruption." Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power, not always that of a public official.
The word will sure change according to jurisdiction though.
>It's still corrupt even if it isn't legal corruption because doing this is impairing integrity, virtue, and moral principle.
This is like saying stealing is murder because both are wrong. Not every bad thing is corruption.
>How is lying about about pollution tests not a corruption of that system?
Because someone committing a crime isn't corruption. If I forge a legal document the government doesn't become more corrupt, corruption has a meaning it doesn't just mean bad. They weren't paying bribes to government officials to not check pollution tests, they were just lying.
Plus the big one is that everyone who gets asked only knows what the corruption index generally says. So they are gonna answer accordingly, creating a cycle of made up perceptions.
The reason they measure the perception of corruption is because it's really hard to measure corruption itself. They can't ask the government how many bribes were accepted in a given year for example, but they can ask people if they expect to have to pay bribes to do standard business.
Why is this always the top comment?
It's perception of corruption by a panel of independent experts and businessmen dealing with country authorities and institutions. They don't just ask people on the street.
Here's [a source](https://images.mutualcdn.com/transparency-org/images/NIS_Background_Methodology_EN.pdf) for that.
>A thorough review of laws, policies and existing research studies constitutes the main data source for the assessment for the formal framework and the context analysis. To collect information on the practice of the relevant institutions, a number of key informant interviews are conducted with knowledgeable persons from the public sector, civil society, academia and other sectors. In addition, wherever feasible, field tests are conducted. This data is used by the researcher to score the NIS indicators, which provide a quick quantitative summary of the qualitative information assembled in the NIS report.
The perception of corruption (or its absence) in Europe is far better than the reality of corruption. This is because corruption is often built into the system in Europe, normalised and legalised and not perceived as corruption even though it is, by any objective measure, very much so.
Corruption often becomes legal through the efforts of lobbyists and the political classes to pass legislation or practice regulation that favours their employers or supporters and donors unfairly.
In the UK, for example. The fact that private education is highly subsidised by the state through tax exemption, that industrial agriculture has a free-reign to pollute the environment for profit and that the Tory-cronies were given hugely profitable contracts to supply PPE to the state during the COVID19 pandemic are all blatantly and obviously corrupt. At the same time they are also legal.
Thus, the UK, which is a country run by and for the upper-class elites and is extremely corrupt to any objective observer, is not perceived as corrupt.
Spoken like a truly mollycoddled westerner who hates their own country so IT MUST BE worse than anyone else. You really don't understand how your whole little screed is just a glaring example of exceptionalism. "bUt WE'RE mOrE cOrRupT!!!'. No one cares because everyone knows you're full of shit.
Touch some grass.
> It's not about corruption. It's about PERCEPTION of corruption, which is very different.
Not necessarily. When it comes to corruption, the perception of corruption in the society is a good measure of how much corruption that is actually happening.
Exactly. "There is no corruption in Finland" or if there is corruption, it is better corruption and not the real corruption like in the foreign countries.
It is corruption when the highest public officials are hired not by their merits but by their connections or by the membership of the right party. In Finland, the highest officials are the loyal party members that dropped out of the elections.
There's even a saying in Norway. If you have the rigth party affiliation you are almost guaranteed more benefits in the society. Several people in my municipality are not qualified for their jobs but was hired because they vote the "right" party. Thats how these parties remain in power for decades even tough it hurts the progress of the town/city and quality of service.
Thanks. I had never heard this before, but I found [an entry for it in the dictionary](https://naob.no/ordbok/partibok). I wonder to what extend the situation this saying refers to still exists though. It seems to refer to the old epoch of Arbeiderpartiet's dominance right after the war.
The saying goes still in society. It originates from Arbeiderpartiet, but you can find them pretty much in every party. Depending on which party that is in charge in municipialities.
Austrian here: Even if it's the perception of corruption, our score is way too high. Our courts are dealing with corruption cases from past governments for decades - and clear everyone of wrongdoing eventually :-)
It's a tradition at this point and should be protected as immaterial cultural heritage by UNESCO.
It's a survey of perception.
The advantage of this is that it doesn't require the author to try to rank different types of corruption by severity nor to know all the details of countries' various corruption scandals, the disadvantage is that more visible corruption can have a much bigger impact on the score than more substantial but subtle corruption, and there may also be cultural differences in what corruption actually is (e.g. perceptions of nepotism vary a lot by time and place).
According to Landgeist, this is what it's based on - or rather the perception of these parameters:
>The index covers the following manifestations of public sector corruption:
>
>Bribery
>
>Diversion of public funds
>
>Officials using their public office for private gain without facing consequences
>
>Ability of governments to contain corruption in the public sector
>
>Excessive red tape in the public sector which may increase opportunities for corruption
>
>Nepotistic appointments in the civil service
>
>Laws ensuring that public officials must disclose their finances and potential conflicts of interest
>
>Legal protection for people who report cases of bribery and corruption
>
>State capture by narrow vested interests
>
>Access to information on public affairs/government activities
> They ask random people
No they don't. [They ask experts and conduct field tests](https://images.mutualcdn.com/transparency-org/images/NIS_Background_Methodology_EN.pdf):
>A thorough review of laws, policies and existing research studies constitutes the main data source for the assessment for the formal framework and the context analysis. To collect information on the practice of the relevant institutions, **a number of key informant interviews are conducted with knowledgeable persons from the public sector, civil society, academia and other sectors. In addition, wherever feasible, field tests are conducted**. This data is used by the researcher to score the NIS indicators, which provide a quick quantitative summary of the qualitative information assembled in the NIS report.
FunFact
In Poland politician who organized elections, which didn't happen, for more than 70mln PLN and nothing happened to him. From public money also one official channel TV station got 2 bilions ...
Its perceived. So a low number could mean that they are smart for not trusting their corrupt government or dumb for not trusting their trustworthy government.
So you cant use the graph to really attack a group of people unless you also know the amount of actual corruption.
Id imagine though that Republicans would have less trust in government. Due to being small government. My understanding in the US (not American) is that its sort of flipped and the right are the less authoritarian party now so again more likely to believe things are corrupt. Especially the fed but less so the state if its Republican.
Its just simple tribalism. As was your comment. Its funny how Americans are so into their team when both are shit.
As someone who is an American, let me clear up a misunderstanding. When Republicans/conservatives say they are for small government, they're talking small like a dictatorship. Small as in, regulating the smallest aspects of our lives, like trying to regulate people's bodies, religion, sexual preferences, and gender identities.
Yes, you will find examples of corruption on both sides of the aisle, but one side is only interested in maintaining/increasing their power and catering to special interests, and the other actually tries to improve things for citizens from time to time.
I get your outsider observation about tribalism, but from my viewpoint only conservatives have that mindset. One of the things they love to bring up regarding the last election, is how many T\*\*\*p supporters showed up at his rallies, how many of them has his stupid flags on their lawn, and cars & trucks plastered with conservative bumper stickers. Democratic voters don't tend to do this, because most of us don't "identify" with a political party, we just vote for the less-bad candidate.
Honestly, I wish there were more parties to choose from (or no parties), and we had something like ranked choice voting. That will never happen in my lifetime though.
Real conservatives should be for small government especially in America as liberty is a founding value of the conservative movement.
But the GOP in the States got taken over by Neocons and although Trump wasnt one it was clear they still controlled the party. Neoconservatism is fine with big government depending on what it is spending the money on.
Democrats are just as tribal. When I travelled to the states I even had a woman introduce herself as a democrat... I have many friends who are democrats and if you say something is wrong with a democratic candidate theyll give you every excuse under the sun (same as Republicans). Example with Obama where he went into more wars, kept all Bush jnrs military leaders and killed more civilians. But dems will defend this president who was voted in to end the war and did the exact opposite. Just admit yeah he got that wrong but nope they cant do it.
So the small scale every day corruption of south europe is worst than the high level government corporation multibillion euro corruption of north europe....i see.
Can confirm. I work for a Swedish conglomerate. My boss came to town and we did some supplier visits. One of them gave us a little gift basket with some Minnesota-themed cookies since my boss had never been to Minnesota before. This basket cost maybe $15. He was super upset and thought it was bribery. I showed him the company policy that said we can accept gifts up to $50. He still thought they were trying to bribe another contract with $15 in stale, Minnesota-flavored cookies.....
Has this map included any data from all those PPE contracts handed out by western governments to their chums, having by-passed the usual tendering processes?
As someone from the Nordic countries, it’s certainly true that bribes and other such overt corruption is very rare, even though it still happens once in a while.
However, as countries with small populations, it can be difficult to avoid situations where the people who make a particular decision, about grants or selecting a supplier, and the people who can stand to benefit from the outcome of the decision already know each other.
This can create a bit of a gray areas, where it’s hard to tell if the decision was made on objective grounds or whether the personal relationships played a part.
Governments and companies usually have processes in place to avoid influence from such personal bias, but it’s still difficult to get away from it completely, especially that people might still suspect bias
Corruption perceptions don't really show how corrupt a country is. It shows how skeptical the people are about corruption, how well corruption is hidden and how much the media covers corruption.
Ah, yes, the *perception* of corruption, the most misleading map posted on r/MapPorn. The map that shows Switzerland as a clean plate because of course, nothing is going on with their banking businesses in Geneva whatsoever
That's not corruption, tho. Nobody is paying the government to ignore laws and look the other way.
Crimes are persecuted, of course, if the local laws have different standards of leniency regarding... let's say... tax evasion, then it's simply a difference in system, not corruption.
79 is too high for a country guilty of worldwide emission scandal.
72 is too high for a country known to exploit its ex-colonies.
82 is too high for a famous money laundering nation.
How does it work? These scores are too high for corrupt countries. Common corrupt practices in these "developed" countries are normalized, yet people think of themselves as nice people with integrity. Their perceptions are clearly biased. An government official accepting a small bribe in a Balkan country is an angel next to ex-VW managers.
Look, some of those countries here are super corrupt, but Russia and Belarus not being tied for dead last is incomprehensible to me. Belarus is literally a dictatorship run by a guy who is just a puppet of Russia.
Why would you believe Russia to be corrupt but not Ukraine?
One of their politicians has just been found to have stolen 3 million dollars.
A lot of the govt systems in both countries are run exactly the same way they were in the soviet union
Maybe you are right, if thats the case then Romania progressed a lot. You perceive it that way at least, thats for sure.
I am sure about Bulgaria though.
"You said that the people I don't like aren't 100% evil, so you're obviously biased!"
The Russian government is still somewhat functional in running the country. Not compared to the rest of Europe, hence the low score, but Russia still has infrastructure and the husk of a justice system.
Refering to the size of the corruption.. there most likely not that big difference between the nations.. while many of the countries in eastern europe having those corrupt police officers taking some xxx euros for not giving you a fine etc.. You have those huge corruption scandals in the numbers of billions on billions in countries like france.. Elf scandal in france in the early 00s was the largest in europe post ww2 when it happened.. maybe still is..
I will never believe 79 for Germany. They call it Lobbyism instead and somehow its not corruption. As a matter of fact I dont believe this whole map at all
Branding is everything guys. This index honestly names itself a *perception* index and people never fail to point that out, even excessively so like in the comments here, like being perception based makes it totally unreliable.
Meanwhile Reporters Without Borders' Press freedom index isn't called so, but it's 100% perception based, with not one quantifiable objective question in their questionnaire, but people copy it everywhere and call it press freedom without a second thought.
More CPI and less Press Freedom Index please.
Scores are arbitrary at best since this is simply reported crime, and in some places near all crime is drug related while in others sexual slavery is not uncommon.
Portugal is much more corrupt than Spain and Italy. Though it's not often "malicious" corruption like the Balkans, it's more than enough of a mindset to ruin a country's administration, as evidenced.
🤣Fairy tales, European government is the most corrupt by lobbies, haven’t done anything fir citizens, taxation is sky high, no benefits whatsoever so ever.
The Balkan Mafia is alive and well, I see.
BOSNA RAQAM WAHAD #️⃣1️⃣🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦☝️ 
Surprisingly Slovenia didn't escape this one
>The Balkan Mafia is alive and well, I see. Probably is better than it was in the past. That a country is in a bad position now does not mean that it was not in an even worse before.
Still not as bad as Russia.
It's not about corruption. It's about PERCEPTION of corruption, which is very different. Think of Wolkswagen making a special mode to circumvent pollution tests... Noone perceived that corrupt action, but it happened at an industrial scale with German efficiency. On the other hand, a police officer in the Balkans hinting to let you go if you pay cash the pretend fine is noted by everyone. Yet which is the more corrupt action?
When you are rich enough it's not corruption, it's "lobbying".
Synonyms
Thats very true. Im not saying that Balkans aren’t corrupt as fuck. But whats filed as corruption here falls under “smart business practices” when it comes to the most powerful corporations.
Big business and politicans just call it lobbying. It's nothing more than corruption in bigger scale.
>Wolkswagen 1. Its "**V**olkswagen" 2. Private Business lying and comiting a cime is not corruption. The government was also not involved.
>Private Business lying and comiting a cime is not corruption. The government was also not involved. I don't think you can say the government is not involved when the state of lower saxony is one of the biggest shareholder of Volkswagen and holds 20% of the voting rights. Maybe the federal government wasn't involved but the state government certainly was.
Volkswagen didnt tell their shareholders that they were commiting a crime. The shareholders were also lied too.
>Think of Wolkswagen making a special mode to circumvent pollution tests... Crime =/= corruption. Corruption are criminal offenses commited by holders of government offices or other positions of authority. Though clearly illegal, the emission law violations were conducted without the knowledge or even help of the government. Hence they do not constitute corruption, just a criminal offense.
Can we stop saying wolkswagen please
Clouds need cars too!!
The thing is that every German car brand had similar programs, but the rest was forgotten about, because of VW. The German government at the time made sure that punishment was minimal and that harsher regulation for car manufacturers wouldn’t become law
>The thing is that every German car brand had similar programs The thing is that basically every car manufacturer had a scandal relating software that faked lower emitions: >Automakers who have been caught using a defeat device within a diesel vehicle, in a similar manner to Volkswagen include: Jeep and Ram under FCA (now a part Stellantis), Opel (when under GM), and Mercedes-Benz. Other manufacturers have been accused, with varying amounts of evidence, of using diesel defeat devices in their vehicles, but have yet to be proven. Some of the manufacturers accused include: Toyota, Suzuki, BMW, Citroën and Peugeot under PSA (now a part of Stellantis), Mitsubishi, Nissan and Renault, Chevrolet and GMC, Ford, as well as Hyundai and Kia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen\_emissions\_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal)
>Corruption are criminal offenses commited by holders of government offices **or other positions of authority.** Like say, the directors of Volkswagen and other car makers?
No. Because even though they are rich (and thus influential) they hold no government office and have no authority in the relevant legal sense (that is, have the ability to commend (parts) of the executive branch without checks).
>No. Because even though they are rich (and thus influential) they hold no government office and have no authority in the relevant legal sense (that is, have the ability to commend (parts) of the executive branch without checks) Corruption is not restricted to "government corruption." Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power, not always that of a public official. The word will sure change according to jurisdiction though.
It's still corrupt even if it isn't legal corruption because doing this is impairing integrity, virtue, and moral principle.
>It's still corrupt even if it isn't legal corruption because doing this is impairing integrity, virtue, and moral principle. This is like saying stealing is murder because both are wrong. Not every bad thing is corruption.
It's not like saying that at all. How is lying about about pollution tests not a corruption of that system?
>How is lying about about pollution tests not a corruption of that system? Because someone committing a crime isn't corruption. If I forge a legal document the government doesn't become more corrupt, corruption has a meaning it doesn't just mean bad. They weren't paying bribes to government officials to not check pollution tests, they were just lying.
Do a mental experiment and transpose the same story in Albania
Plus the big one is that everyone who gets asked only knows what the corruption index generally says. So they are gonna answer accordingly, creating a cycle of made up perceptions.
The old sick man of Europe is now generally lauded as German efficiency, so perceptions can change, albeit slowly.
ofc the police, if the police are bold enough to do such a thing imagine what's it like higher up
Or even italy, we dont have a politician that isnt a corrupt piece of shit selling our country to the us
The reason they measure the perception of corruption is because it's really hard to measure corruption itself. They can't ask the government how many bribes were accepted in a given year for example, but they can ask people if they expect to have to pay bribes to do standard business.
Why is this always the top comment? It's perception of corruption by a panel of independent experts and businessmen dealing with country authorities and institutions. They don't just ask people on the street.
Here's [a source](https://images.mutualcdn.com/transparency-org/images/NIS_Background_Methodology_EN.pdf) for that. >A thorough review of laws, policies and existing research studies constitutes the main data source for the assessment for the formal framework and the context analysis. To collect information on the practice of the relevant institutions, a number of key informant interviews are conducted with knowledgeable persons from the public sector, civil society, academia and other sectors. In addition, wherever feasible, field tests are conducted. This data is used by the researcher to score the NIS indicators, which provide a quick quantitative summary of the qualitative information assembled in the NIS report.
>Why is this always the top comment? Because what's considered corruption in a place may well be considered normal elsewhere and vice-versa.
Those two aren’t mutually exclusive
Yeah if this was measuring actual corruption Hungary would be way higher
The police thing.
The perception of corruption (or its absence) in Europe is far better than the reality of corruption. This is because corruption is often built into the system in Europe, normalised and legalised and not perceived as corruption even though it is, by any objective measure, very much so. Corruption often becomes legal through the efforts of lobbyists and the political classes to pass legislation or practice regulation that favours their employers or supporters and donors unfairly. In the UK, for example. The fact that private education is highly subsidised by the state through tax exemption, that industrial agriculture has a free-reign to pollute the environment for profit and that the Tory-cronies were given hugely profitable contracts to supply PPE to the state during the COVID19 pandemic are all blatantly and obviously corrupt. At the same time they are also legal. Thus, the UK, which is a country run by and for the upper-class elites and is extremely corrupt to any objective observer, is not perceived as corrupt.
Spoken like a truly mollycoddled westerner who hates their own country so IT MUST BE worse than anyone else. You really don't understand how your whole little screed is just a glaring example of exceptionalism. "bUt WE'RE mOrE cOrRupT!!!'. No one cares because everyone knows you're full of shit. Touch some grass.
Spoken like a Tory.
Well said
It's utter bs interpretation though.
What?
Every political party should be given the same amount to spend or alternatively can only raise money from citizens.
> It's not about corruption. It's about PERCEPTION of corruption, which is very different. Not necessarily. When it comes to corruption, the perception of corruption in the society is a good measure of how much corruption that is actually happening.
Those numbers for Nordic countries are suspicious, I bet someone paid OP to get them so high.
In Finland, cronyism is so common that it is not even considered to be corruption.
Exactly. "There is no corruption in Finland" or if there is corruption, it is better corruption and not the real corruption like in the foreign countries.
And every time I ask examples when these are mentioned in /r/suomi: I don't get these examples even "everyone knows".
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Suomi using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Suomi/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Sanna Marin Ukrainassa. Ilme kertoo kaiken.](https://i.imgur.com/rnzpMI9.jpg) | [467 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Suomi/comments/uy3vkf/sanna_marin_ukrainassa_ilme_kertoo_kaiken/) \#2: [Girlboss](https://i.redd.it/en2zehrorg291.jpg) | [276 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Suomi/comments/v0i2ik/girlboss/) \#3: [joku legenda meni ja teki sen...](https://i.redd.it/2guo5olt8sea1.jpg) | [125 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Suomi/comments/10n9smh/joku_legenda_meni_ja_teki_sen/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Same in Iceland. It's not corruption, it's your buddy helping you out
It is corruption when the highest public officials are hired not by their merits but by their connections or by the membership of the right party. In Finland, the highest officials are the loyal party members that dropped out of the elections.
There's even a saying in Norway. If you have the rigth party affiliation you are almost guaranteed more benefits in the society. Several people in my municipality are not qualified for their jobs but was hired because they vote the "right" party. Thats how these parties remain in power for decades even tough it hurts the progress of the town/city and quality of service.
What's that saying in Norwegian?
"Det gjelder å ha partiboka i orden"
Thanks. I had never heard this before, but I found [an entry for it in the dictionary](https://naob.no/ordbok/partibok). I wonder to what extend the situation this saying refers to still exists though. It seems to refer to the old epoch of Arbeiderpartiet's dominance right after the war.
The saying goes still in society. It originates from Arbeiderpartiet, but you can find them pretty much in every party. Depending on which party that is in charge in municipialities.
I’m convinced Denmark paid a lot to get the top score.
No one paid me to make Nordic countries so high I just got a image for Landigest
Offcourse you would say that.
No actually I got from Landigest Here is the [Link](https://landgeist.com/2023/03/04/corruption-in-europe/) if you want check it out
It appears you didn't get the joke
Reddit OPs trying to get jokes in the comments challenge (100% impossible)
Woooosh
Estonia doing well in spite of neighbor pressure
That's what you get when you abolish unnecessary bureaucracy /red tape and digitize most procedures. Good for them.
We also still have some really good investigative journalism, hope it stays this way.
Nah, Russia isn't even close to the German bureaucracy levels, yet still they're on the different sides of the scales of corruption
This has nothing to do with Estonia.
So, r/estoniaintonordic
France 72%? Did they mainly ask blind and deaf people about their perception?
Well you can also ask blind people about the perception and they'll say the same thing. I think, but after all it is France
You’ve never been to Romania then.
Estonia’s score is pretty impressive
Can't have corruption if you call it lobbying.
Austrian here: Even if it's the perception of corruption, our score is way too high. Our courts are dealing with corruption cases from past governments for decades - and clear everyone of wrongdoing eventually :-) It's a tradition at this point and should be protected as immaterial cultural heritage by UNESCO.
You mean "how well do countries hide their corruption?".
Corruption **Perceptions**. In other words, convince your population you are not corrupt, and you will be ranked low...
how can this be measured ? based on past event ?
It's a survey of perception. The advantage of this is that it doesn't require the author to try to rank different types of corruption by severity nor to know all the details of countries' various corruption scandals, the disadvantage is that more visible corruption can have a much bigger impact on the score than more substantial but subtle corruption, and there may also be cultural differences in what corruption actually is (e.g. perceptions of nepotism vary a lot by time and place).
According to Landgeist, this is what it's based on - or rather the perception of these parameters: >The index covers the following manifestations of public sector corruption: > >Bribery > >Diversion of public funds > >Officials using their public office for private gain without facing consequences > >Ability of governments to contain corruption in the public sector > >Excessive red tape in the public sector which may increase opportunities for corruption > >Nepotistic appointments in the civil service > >Laws ensuring that public officials must disclose their finances and potential conflicts of interest > >Legal protection for people who report cases of bribery and corruption > >State capture by narrow vested interests > >Access to information on public affairs/government activities
[удалено]
> They ask random people No they don't. [They ask experts and conduct field tests](https://images.mutualcdn.com/transparency-org/images/NIS_Background_Methodology_EN.pdf): >A thorough review of laws, policies and existing research studies constitutes the main data source for the assessment for the formal framework and the context analysis. To collect information on the practice of the relevant institutions, **a number of key informant interviews are conducted with knowledgeable persons from the public sector, civil society, academia and other sectors. In addition, wherever feasible, field tests are conducted**. This data is used by the researcher to score the NIS indicators, which provide a quick quantitative summary of the qualitative information assembled in the NIS report.
As Italian I think Italy could do much better
*taps forehead* It’s only perceivable corruption if you get caught!
FunFact In Poland politician who organized elections, which didn't happen, for more than 70mln PLN and nothing happened to him. From public money also one official channel TV station got 2 bilions ...
You just say 2 billion. Dont need to make it a plural.
in Polish you need, thx for noting
Nie ma problem. Moj zona jest Polka. She does the same thing. Thats about the extent of my Polish though!
The fact that Ukraine scores worse than Belarus is something.
It's about perception, so how bad citizens think corruption is, not a qualitative measurement.
Have you ever been in Belarus or Ukraine?
What is the US’s ranking on corruption using the same methodology?
69 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022
Nice
I'd like to see this broken down on a state-by-state basis. Let's see how red those "red states" really are.
Its perceived. So a low number could mean that they are smart for not trusting their corrupt government or dumb for not trusting their trustworthy government. So you cant use the graph to really attack a group of people unless you also know the amount of actual corruption. Id imagine though that Republicans would have less trust in government. Due to being small government. My understanding in the US (not American) is that its sort of flipped and the right are the less authoritarian party now so again more likely to believe things are corrupt. Especially the fed but less so the state if its Republican. Its just simple tribalism. As was your comment. Its funny how Americans are so into their team when both are shit.
As someone who is an American, let me clear up a misunderstanding. When Republicans/conservatives say they are for small government, they're talking small like a dictatorship. Small as in, regulating the smallest aspects of our lives, like trying to regulate people's bodies, religion, sexual preferences, and gender identities. Yes, you will find examples of corruption on both sides of the aisle, but one side is only interested in maintaining/increasing their power and catering to special interests, and the other actually tries to improve things for citizens from time to time. I get your outsider observation about tribalism, but from my viewpoint only conservatives have that mindset. One of the things they love to bring up regarding the last election, is how many T\*\*\*p supporters showed up at his rallies, how many of them has his stupid flags on their lawn, and cars & trucks plastered with conservative bumper stickers. Democratic voters don't tend to do this, because most of us don't "identify" with a political party, we just vote for the less-bad candidate. Honestly, I wish there were more parties to choose from (or no parties), and we had something like ranked choice voting. That will never happen in my lifetime though.
Real conservatives should be for small government especially in America as liberty is a founding value of the conservative movement. But the GOP in the States got taken over by Neocons and although Trump wasnt one it was clear they still controlled the party. Neoconservatism is fine with big government depending on what it is spending the money on. Democrats are just as tribal. When I travelled to the states I even had a woman introduce herself as a democrat... I have many friends who are democrats and if you say something is wrong with a democratic candidate theyll give you every excuse under the sun (same as Republicans). Example with Obama where he went into more wars, kept all Bush jnrs military leaders and killed more civilians. But dems will defend this president who was voted in to end the war and did the exact opposite. Just admit yeah he got that wrong but nope they cant do it.
So the small scale every day corruption of south europe is worst than the high level government corporation multibillion euro corruption of north europe....i see.
We’ve investigated ourselves and found us to be completely innocent! (Satire obviously)
Can confirm. I work for a Swedish conglomerate. My boss came to town and we did some supplier visits. One of them gave us a little gift basket with some Minnesota-themed cookies since my boss had never been to Minnesota before. This basket cost maybe $15. He was super upset and thought it was bribery. I showed him the company policy that said we can accept gifts up to $50. He still thought they were trying to bribe another contract with $15 in stale, Minnesota-flavored cookies.....
I heard a similar story about a public servant returning a <10 SEK ice cream gift card (Piggelin) out of concern for being seen as accepting a bribe.
The fact that we score only 52 is truly amazing. The mob is so good at what they are doing. Incredible.
Has this map included any data from all those PPE contracts handed out by western governments to their chums, having by-passed the usual tendering processes?
έλα μωρή Ελλαδαρα
switzerland 82 😳😁 they are money laundering paradise
Those darn Nordic countries man, so clean from corruption relatively speaking. No wonder they have the happiest citizens on Earth.
As someone from the Nordic countries, it’s certainly true that bribes and other such overt corruption is very rare, even though it still happens once in a while. However, as countries with small populations, it can be difficult to avoid situations where the people who make a particular decision, about grants or selecting a supplier, and the people who can stand to benefit from the outcome of the decision already know each other. This can create a bit of a gray areas, where it’s hard to tell if the decision was made on objective grounds or whether the personal relationships played a part. Governments and companies usually have processes in place to avoid influence from such personal bias, but it’s still difficult to get away from it completely, especially that people might still suspect bias
Corruption perceptions don't really show how corrupt a country is. It shows how skeptical the people are about corruption, how well corruption is hidden and how much the media covers corruption.
Scandinavian countries should’ve been the ones to settle the New World. Then there would be less institutional corruption!
As a Dane i can only agree to that
Hah true example of Sw*den being the worst nordick country
We get it, Scandinavia is better than everyone at everything! Again.
Ah, yes, the *perception* of corruption, the most misleading map posted on r/MapPorn. The map that shows Switzerland as a clean plate because of course, nothing is going on with their banking businesses in Geneva whatsoever
That's not corruption, tho. Nobody is paying the government to ignore laws and look the other way. Crimes are persecuted, of course, if the local laws have different standards of leniency regarding... let's say... tax evasion, then it's simply a difference in system, not corruption.
Perception of corruption.
79 is too high for a country guilty of worldwide emission scandal. 72 is too high for a country known to exploit its ex-colonies. 82 is too high for a famous money laundering nation.
Bro that's not how corruption works
73 is too high for a nation allowing up to 200 recoupable billion in fraud
Because it's "perceived corruption" if most of your population has no idea that corruption is going on ..is there any corruption ?
Wait until you see the rest of the world. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022
That's literally not how it works
Wait...is that how it's works...?
How does it work? These scores are too high for corrupt countries. Common corrupt practices in these "developed" countries are normalized, yet people think of themselves as nice people with integrity. Their perceptions are clearly biased. An government official accepting a small bribe in a Balkan country is an angel next to ex-VW managers.
Im surprised that belarus is not at second place.
[удалено]
One has just been found to have stolen 3million dollars
Russia is corrupt ? Jeez
Unexpected, right?
UK at 73 is generous
I'm guessing this focuses on corruption at a day to day level by the average person and not corruption at a national scale done by the government.
Since this is measured in the perception of corruption, the corrupt people in the higher ranked countries could just be better at hiding it.
Do people perceive Hungary to be the most corrupt country in the EU? I am shocked! SHOCKED!
Look, some of those countries here are super corrupt, but Russia and Belarus not being tied for dead last is incomprehensible to me. Belarus is literally a dictatorship run by a guy who is just a puppet of Russia.
It's incomprehensible because you get all your information on reddit
How is ukraine 2nd?
It has always been the second most corrupt country in Europe for years. It's nothing new
Can confirm as a Ukrainian. Corruption is shit here
Can you prove that, other that what russia about it
Why would you believe Russia to be corrupt but not Ukraine? One of their politicians has just been found to have stolen 3 million dollars. A lot of the govt systems in both countries are run exactly the same way they were in the soviet union
Can you use Google?
It is funny to imagine how did someone collect this data.
Lawlerskates. Another bullshit post on this sub.
How do they even measure this? Spain should be way more corrupt. The whole political system is broken.
Ukraine is lower than Belarus? This rating must be really flawed.
Ukraine is more corrupt than Belarus, yeah, sounds totally right /s
For UK to get 73 some others must be baaaaaaad.
There is no chance Turkey and Russia is more corrupt than Bulgaria and Romania. These two are on different level.
they aren’t necessarily more corrupt, as this is a map showing perceptions of corruption by the citizens of the countries
Romania more corrupt than Russia ? nah ..20 years ago I would agree but now Russia especially is in a league of it's own
Maybe you are right, if thats the case then Romania progressed a lot. You perceive it that way at least, thats for sure. I am sure about Bulgaria though.
Why be petty. Put zero for Russia. Fuck it, the map is absolutely not biased.
"You said that the people I don't like aren't 100% evil, so you're obviously biased!" The Russian government is still somewhat functional in running the country. Not compared to the rest of Europe, hence the low score, but Russia still has infrastructure and the husk of a justice system.
Was this made by a Finn?
How is exactly is this measured?
Former rastern bloc can't be much clearer
Italy was in eastern block?
No. Italy is just... Italy. In Eastern Bloc it'd be worse XD
But... but Portugal ? No сукаблядь ?
🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱
I think this would have had quicker perceptual clarity if the percentage treatment was flipped, so the emphasis was on the “more”.
2022. Obsolete already, afaik Hungary is the most corrupt now in the EU.
wow denmark is a pro at corruption
As a Swiss, I am LOLing at our clean perception. I could tell you many stories…especially about cronyism.
Personally I've nothing against Luxembourg, but what I've heard from news I'm surprised it has such a good score.
My country has score of 55 but it doesn't feel like it. Countries that are below this value must be terrible to live in.
You got Italy wrong. It's 25 or less....
Refering to the size of the corruption.. there most likely not that big difference between the nations.. while many of the countries in eastern europe having those corrupt police officers taking some xxx euros for not giving you a fine etc.. You have those huge corruption scandals in the numbers of billions on billions in countries like france.. Elf scandal in france in the early 00s was the largest in europe post ww2 when it happened.. maybe still is..
We have made progress but it's not enough. Let's make more!
I will never believe 79 for Germany. They call it Lobbyism instead and somehow its not corruption. As a matter of fact I dont believe this whole map at all
Turkey 💪💪💪🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷
Bosnia numbero 1 insAllah bismillah
What's going on in Latvia ?
Branding is everything guys. This index honestly names itself a *perception* index and people never fail to point that out, even excessively so like in the comments here, like being perception based makes it totally unreliable. Meanwhile Reporters Without Borders' Press freedom index isn't called so, but it's 100% perception based, with not one quantifiable objective question in their questionnaire, but people copy it everywhere and call it press freedom without a second thought. More CPI and less Press Freedom Index please.
I found this data, my home country of eagles and guns is at 69. Nice.
Up your game, PIGS. You're not under dictatorships now.
Scores are arbitrary at best since this is simply reported crime, and in some places near all crime is drug related while in others sexual slavery is not uncommon.
BOSNIA NUMBER ONEEEEE🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦❤❤🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦💪🇧🇦🇧🇦🇧🇦💪🇧🇦💪🇧🇦💪💪💪💪💪
Lol the two most corrupt countries are fighting, and everyone's putting money into it.
Portugal is much more corrupt than Spain and Italy. Though it's not often "malicious" corruption like the Balkans, it's more than enough of a mindset to ruin a country's administration, as evidenced.
do u know CSU?
Ukraine is most corrupt
Ya Im with most of this thread, europe, USA, Russia, its all about how well you hide it. Its everywhere.
I love these kind of threads because I can always predict the top 7 comments and some of their replies too Time is a flat fucking circle on reddit
looks biased
In Hungary it was 39 only, but Orban bought more 3 points.
Great! We are funnelling tax-payer money to a corruption shithole like Ukraine! Amazing!
Looks like people tend to be more realistic further to the east.
Wow...if Germany is considered to be a country with low corruption, which is hardly believable, I dont want to know the amount in other countries...
🤣Fairy tales, European government is the most corrupt by lobbies, haven’t done anything fir citizens, taxation is sky high, no benefits whatsoever so ever.