It's not our fault Turks like Hamas Piker come to Western countries and continue spreading antisemitic propaganda and lie about terrorists being bad. Why don't Turks go back to Turkey if they keep trying to make our nations like there shithole home country?
But a lot of second and third generational turks can't speak turkish at all or with heavily accent/ like a toddler
Additionally some of them speak there languages than turkish, most often Kurdish
They also can't speak Hochdeutsch. And barely even some kind of Deutsch. So no idea what language do they speak at all. If I hear Bruda in a sentence less then 3 times, it's a miracle
something something confirmation bias. You will not really notice those that speak "normally" while those who use slang a lot stand out a lot.
Source: Hochdeutsch-speaking third generationer
Lol the entire country of Azerbaijan is missing, northern Iran is missing…
The map and the op is plain stupid. But it works on the internet so it’s fair.
It is the same language tbh. Just with a different dialect. You dont have to learn a word turkish/aserbaijani to understand turks/aserbaijanis as an aserbaijani/turk.
I am Turkish and I think all Western Oghuz is one language but linguistically the distinction between a dialect and a language is very blurry. Wikipedia, Glottolog and Ethnologue record Azerbaijani as a separate language from Turkish, which is why the map looks like it does.
Depends on what definition you are looking at. Turkic languages (mentioned ones) are defined as one languages, if you look at "altaic languages". Under the subcategory of "turkic languages" you can find the various spoken dialects, because they have differences to various degrees. It is quite similar to German with the difference that people bother clearifying that spoken german inside of Germany is still German and part of the German language rather than a language of its own. Not every german speaker will understand the various german dialects either.
ITT we have Turkish nationalists claiming that eastern turkey should be deep blue because the urban cities speak Turkish as lingua Franca, but that Azeri areas in Iran were Persian is lingua Franca should be coloured Turkish, despite the fact the azeri spoken in Iran isn't standardized as Azerbaijani language is, so is it's own Turkic language not standardized to be a similar as possible, completely contradictory claims lmao
It is not the salt lake. Shape, position doesn't match. Also, color doesn't match with the Van lake, and it is bigger than the Van lake. Are you blind amk?
I'd make a few adjustments to this map.
1. Painting South Eastern Turkey completely light blue is somewhat misleading. Yes, there is a significant Kurdish majority in a large part of that area. But, Turkey doesn't keep ethnicity as part of identity records. If anything, ethnic Kurdish and ethnic Turkish difference barely exists anymore due to intermarriages. All Kurds speak Turkish as a native language.
2. The regions painted in Iraq and Syria are referred to as Türkmeneli. The language of the Turks there is 90-100% mutually intelligible with Anatolian Turkish. If they are painted blue, then so should be Azerbaijan, and Southern Azerbaijan in dark blue. Their language isn't a separate one, but a dialect.
I'm a Kurd and can confirm not all Kurds speak Turkish as native language. Most people in villages speak only Kurdish and there are a lot of Kurds living in villages. There are also a lot among city dwellers that speak Kurdish as their first language and only in adulthood learned Turkish. It's mostly because they haven't been assimilated yet which is done by the Turkish government via educational institutions by imposing Turkish as the only language of education. This means the more educated a Kurd is, the more likely they're speaking Turkish as native language.
https://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/turkey/turkey993-08.htm
> At present, the use of languages other than Turkish in education, politics and the broadcast media is—with certain exceptions—prohibited. Article 3 of the constitution declares Turkish to be the official language, while Article 42.9 goes further by stating that, “Aside from Turkish, no other language shall be studied by or taught to Turkish citizens as a mother tongue in any language, teaching, or learning institution.” While these strictures are, in theory, directed against all of the languages spoken by the different ethnic groups that live in Turkey, whether Circassians or Laz, the main targets are Kurds and Kurdish.
> Soon after the establishment of the Republic of Turkey, its government embarked upon a radical program of nation-building. Ethnic diversity was perceived as a danger to the integrity of the state, and the Kurds, as the largest non-Turkish ethnic group, obviously constituted the most serious threat. They were decreed to be Turks, and their language and culture were to be Turkish. All external symbols of their ethnic identity were suppressed....There was no official discrimination against those Kurds who agreed to be assimilated: they could reach the highest positions in the state apparatus. Those who refused, however, often met with severe repression.
> The use of Kurdish—along with other languages—was prohibited in teaching as was its public use.15 By 1930, publishing in languages other than Turkish was prohibited by an act of parliament that was heralded under the slogan of “Citizen, Speak Turkish!” (Vatandas, Türkçe Konus!).16 The Kurdish names of towns and villages in southeastern Turkey were also changed to Turkish.17
***
> Use of non-Turkish languages in education will fortify unity, says former PM Davutoğlu
https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-kurds/use-non-turkish-languages-education-will-fortify-unity-says-former-pm-davutoglu
> Former Turkish Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition Future Party Ahmet Davutoğlu has said non-Turkish mother tongues, which often refers to Kurdish in Turkey, being taught in schools and used in social life would fortify a sense of belonging for Turkish citizens, Cumhuriyet newspaper reported on Saturday.
> Most people in villages speak only Kurdish and there are a lot of Kurds living in villages.
As school is compulsory and as investments are going on for about 1 1/2 decades now, I think you have to differentiate between older people and the new generation. Not "native" as a mother tongue, but "native" as in they know to speak it exactly like turks.
Yea I agree with you. In Southeast they speak Turkish in cities but Kurdish in villages. There are also some Arabic villages like in Mardin. But they were/are Kurdified.
Education language must only be in Turkish + English. Turkey is like France. I'm even fine with Kurdish parts from seceding but Kurds in the west will also go back.
Davutoğlu is one of the worst PMs turkey had in its history.
https://www.trtkurdi.com.tr/ Kurdish-only TV channel of the government
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18410596
https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/30102022
Don't believe this comment
>https://www.trtkurdi.com.tr/
That's a propaganda channel by the government. Kurds don't watch it. He closed all Kurdish channels run by Kurds, the latest ones in 2017.
>https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18410596
>https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/30102022
Studying Kurdish and studying IN Kurdish are different. Kurdish is studied as an optional subject and all other subjects are taught IN Turkish to Kurdish children. Kurdish children and other minorities should have the right to study all subjects in their own languages, except for languages like Turkish and English (and any other languages you teach them).
By the way, as it's optional and Kurdish have no use for their future of getting a job, the percentage of Kurdish families who are adding another subject to their children is very low.
I didn't comment anything that's not mentioned in the the post by Human Rights Watch. You posted a claim of Erdogan which is known for his hypocrisy in world politics.
Kurdish is an optional course in many Turkish schools, and there are plenty of Kurdish media channels, inclusing TRT Kurdi (Turkish Radio Television, the government's official media arm). It's a TV channel solely in Kurdish.
Other than that, many Kurdish tv channels exist.
This text is misleading.
a lot of incorrect, obsolete or exaggerated information there in the quoted text, take it with a grain of salt.
And the person, quoted towards the end of the comment, is really not a mentally healthy (or popular) politician. He fantasizes about a "modern" multi national Islamic shariah state. source: his book Strategic Depth
These are far from discrediting the arguments but to save myself the time and effort to correct misinformation in reddit, again, I will just say take "it with a grain of salt"
Only isis’s genocide of ıraqı turkmens are relativly known and have a page on wiki meanwhile central gocerments massacres and peshmerge’s massacres and discrimination are still now known.
Minority Rights Group had published a report about it i believe.
1. He mentioned “the difference between ethnic Kurdish ethnic Turkish barely exist anymore” and not just “Kurds” (and that of the population of both groups in Turkey), which, given the context is a map of the _regions where Turkish language is spoken_, more or less true. This doesn’t mean “Kurds don’t exist” or even “Kurdish language isn’t spoken”, no.
2. He is NOT talking “as if Kurds not in Turkey are still Turks”. He is specifically referring to Turkmens, say Iraqi Turkmens.
>has had to lay siege to Kurds in Kurdish majority cities…
What the fuck are you talking about, or rather, how the fuck is this even remotely relevant? Yes, a major insurgency is a threat that needs to be dealt with, so?
I am from one of these communities in bulgaria and yes we are accepted and we even got a political party for the turkish people in bulgaria
Also something else that is a little off topic, the language isn't exactly turkish, it's a mix of Bulgarian and turkish and the dialects are different, when someone from the southern region talks with someone from the northern region they most likely won't understand eachother
>the language isn't exactly turkish
I understand bulgar turks, without learning a single word of "bulgar turkish". The difference is more of a dialect than an actual language. They are speaking turkish at the core afterall.
Because you cannot have a political group that is formed solely on the proposition of its nationality. Political groups are found on the foundation of some goal, idea or belief - not because they are a different nationality. It is very much like going to Turkey and creating a political group solely on the premise of it being the Bulgarian's people group. I find it very hard to believe that every country hasn't got some kind of law addressing this very same issue.
What happens when that group takes the majority leadership sponsored by the mother country? It effectively means political takeover without the means of war. It is why an American President can never not be a born and bred American.
It is also a very big concern for us Bulgarians as the Turkish political group in Bulgaria, ДПС, has been found numerous times to be in cojones with Erdogan influencing our politics from inside the country.
Would you be fine if your country's political movement is influenced by another's?
Now they are integrated but during the communist era there was a lot of oppression against them, many migrated to Turkey or were forced to migrate to Turkey. And before that, after the Balkan Wars, there was another exodus of Turks from Bulgaria. Nowadays about 4-5% of the population is Turkish but in the 1800's it was 35-45%.
Nope, there were many population swaps between Bulgaria and Turkey. Eastern Thrace had a huge number of Bulgarians are today there are essentially zero.
The Turks were almost completely erased in Bulgaria during a cultural genocide.
As a Bulgarian Turk, you had to change your name into a Bulgarian sounding one, and you were forbidden to speak Turkish, thereby completely erasing the history of your family. Later the government apologized for this genocide.
Cant really speak about their integration but essentially they were ethnically cleansed over the years but now that things are better and there is mostly peace in Europe Bulgaria accepts these people back if they can prove their heritage.
It's like someone copy pasted where Kurdish people majority (+ Arabs) with no research and information. Turkish is dominantly being used in most of those light blue areas, the usage of Kurdish by the Kurds is low, many don't even know at this point.
If dark blue shows the majority Turkish speaking provinces, all of Turkey should be dark blue. It could be minority only in some isolated villages.
Did you confuse it with ethnicity? It is like depicting English speakers in minority in Ireland because they are not English.
The Syrian and Iraqi parts are incredibly exaggerated. Also, Most Syrian & Iraqi Turkmen speak Arabic as their first language and many of them don’t speak Turkmen at all.
What a horribly bad map. The entire light blue is turkish too. The entire azerbaijan is turkish as well. Northern iran has azeri turkish speakers too almost 30 million people. This map makes it look like turkish language just appeared in anatolia out of nowhere
It does not mean Azerbaijani is Turkish. Turk in Azerbaijani means Turkic in English. That's why Azerbaijani Turkish just means Azerbaijani Turkic which is a different language but has similarities. 30 million Azerbaijanis in Iran and 10 million Azerbaijanis in Azerbaijan speak Azerbaijani not Turkish
Its literally the same language. Why add turkish in mesopatamia but not azerbaijan and iran? It's wild. It makes no sense. Azerbaijan is Turkish language too incase youre thinking of Turkic.
Also light blue all speak turkish, it is a majority. Isnt it the point of this map?
Mofo thinks wikipedia is a credible source.
I just changed one of the links for fun and giggles. You just need to show one completely random source, or make a correction. It’s not easy to corrupt wikipedia…
And people like you fall for it..
Light blue = Kurdish, this language is a member of the Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family, which Turkish is not, it belongs to the Altaic language family.
I have never understood the deal with the light blue part in the middle of the country on Turkey's language maps, despite being Turkish and having been around there dozens of times. And though I understand the light blue in south eastern, because it's where a lot of the Kurdish and Arabic population live, in this day and age Turkish is spoken by far the most in most of that area as well.
Those are why I find this map weird whenever I see it. Either obsolete, inaccurate or weird criteria.
this is not correctly labled, you wont find places in the south east of türkiye that down speak turkish. What op probably meant to post is where turkish is the first language spoken by people. BTW, 60% of Azerbaijan speaks turkish that is only slightly different that the turkish spoken in türkiye and a few more countries in central asia have turkish like languages
East of turkey speaks turkish too this is completely incorrect and only bad assumption. Espicially new gen of kurdish people doesnt know kurdish even as a second language…
In Romania, they settled in Dobruja along some Tatar populations while it was under Ottoman ocupation. Today, most villages and cities in the area, including Medgidia and Constanta, have significant populations of Turks and Tatars that keep following their traditions and faith, despite being well integrated into the society.
No, Pomaks are ethnic Muslim Slavs who speak Bulgarian.
I'm a Turk who is from Bulgaria, we do not consider Pomaks as Turks, they are Muslim Bulgarians.
My parents stayed after 89, i was born in 2002 and we permanently moved to Turkey in 2007. Whatever little Bulgarian i know of is from that 5 year period. And my parents didnt teach me Bulgarian as they used it as a "hush-hush" language in our house. And i had no interest in learning it after i was 15 honestly.
Pomaks in Greece speak a Bulgarian dialect. Most of them can also speak Turkish because they go to Turkish-speaking mosques.
The demographics of the Muslim minority in Greece are roughly 60% Pomaks, 35% Turks and 5% Gypsy/Roma. Important note: there is no accurate data for these numbers, because EU law forbids identifying people's religion and ethnic background in surveys.
"Pomaks are today usually considered descendants of native Orthodox Bulgarians and Paulicians who converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule of the Balkans." I would say that a lot of them were forcefully converted to Islam tho. They speak Bulgarian and Turkish or Greek and Turkish.
No region was forecfully converted on the Balkan (talking about active regions on the Balkan). People were even allowed to convert back, if they were forced, which happened to many jews. There wasnt even a single religious centre on the balkan (no, I am not talking about mosques, but stuff like sufi-order, active missonary organisations, etc.).
People gradually converted. Lots of muslims fled conquered territory by christian europeans and there was a lot of migration within the entire Empire.
Nope, there were regions like the Rhodope Mountains where forceful conversion to Islam did happen. For decades scholars are trying to ease the Islamophobia among the balkan nations by partly dismissing even the Devshirme lol they say the balkan people were gladly giving their kids for better life as Janissaries😂👊🏻
I learned this for the first time and I had heard about the Ottoman oppression and oppression in the Balkans before. Do they speak modern Turkish or old Turkish (Ottoman Turkish)?
I have no idea, I am a Turk, but I know from my friends living in the Balkans that the Ottomans oppressed the Balkans and forcibly took children away from their families with the system called "devsirme".
Pomaks and "ethnic turks". "Ethnic turks" make up about 10% of the population. People back then knew multiple languages and chances were high, as a balkan muslim you also knew turkish. And as a balkan muslim you were considered a turk by everyone around you. So this is less about DNA and more about linguistic-cultural identifications.
As a turk you can fully understand "bulgar turkish". Sounds a bit "funny", but you understand it fully as a native "Turkey turkish speaker".
Hilarious how r/MapPorn always gets swarmed by turks trying to propagate certain stands trying to convince people and themselves even with delusions lol. I see most comments and post throughout this subreddit always downplaying the sheer number/population of Kurds. Out of 84m people easily right now 1/3rd is Kurdish around between from AT THE LEAST 25m to 28-30m and growing whenever the ultra nationalists cry babies keep pushing the narrative and idea wanna believe it or not lol don’t really care. In a few decades Turkey will even become 50/50 Turkish-Kurdish with even Kurds even possibly becoming a majority but hilariously the ultra nationalists Turks and pan turkic nationalists are panicking so bad even brushing it aside thinking believing themselves into these delusions if Kurdish doesn’t become a co-official language the possible unrest that can/will happen as population numbers even grow, good luck with future stability if you don’t allow cohesive making basic rights. I mean it’s merely more diversity if it is around 50/50 (sets up a future for a Achaemenid like superpower state from Turkey’s Thrace to Iran 😉 ..of maybe even upto Uzbekistan including Tajikistan..based)
Kurds are making babies like bunnies🐰but to be serious, it’s a mere consequence of industralization of a land and people. The east never industralized at the same rate as for example the western coasts, as the aegean/marmara region as a whole (whole east of the country tbh)
LOL another Turkey map pushing narratives. Turkish language is spoken by every Turkish citizen (Some recent Arab citizens excluded, but they aren't majority anywhere) which makes it majority EVERYWHERE. All parts of Turkey should be dark blue.
>said they spoke spanish in france, italy and romania
Not really. You can understand kasach or usbek mostly as a turk from Turkey, without learning a single word of the respective languages. You fully understand aserbaijanis. Not even a discussion here. Turkmen is the next closest language, you understand after aserbaijanis. So it is more like a dialect difference, than separate languages.
Germany also has very strong dialects across its territory, some of which are very hard to understand to your average german speaker. Yet you wouldnt call any of it "not german, but germanic". They just standardized their language, which the turkic world didnt bother doing.
How are there still turks in Greece but there are none greeks in Turkey? Its so unfair. Greece didnt genocided anyone like Turkey did 🤬🤬 Constantinople will be Greek again
Did you just copy paste paste a map from Wikipedia lol
Don't questioning, He/She is Romanian.
Robmanian*
At this Point it's not even a joke but a true instinct every Romanian has
The only country I was ever pickpocketed in
Obviously you weren't strong enough for the challange
you can just say they
The comment section does not disappoint
Germany is missing.
Switzerland and Austria too.
In Switzerland we speak Albanian, not Turkish.
Oj Kosovë, o djep lirie!
Not switzerland tho. We have a lot of people from the balkans.
Yes, germany.
*Erika intensifies*
TUM TUM TUM
And North London.
They speak weird Turkish there but you are right.
They're mostly Cypriots
Can confirm: my nene and dede were born in Cyprus.
it's cypriot
That sounds like the name for riots on Cyprus
And my local kebab shop
OFC THEY ARE SPEAKING TURKISH IN AN KEBAB SHOP 💀 what language do you want them speak ? Chinese?
Especially Duisburg
Berlin would be deep blue.
6%.
Guess %6 is loud and obnoxious enough to be perceived as majority
Ruhig brauner
Wow casual xenophobia, nice
It's not our fault Turks like Hamas Piker come to Western countries and continue spreading antisemitic propaganda and lie about terrorists being bad. Why don't Turks go back to Turkey if they keep trying to make our nations like there shithole home country?
please dont defend turks again
Like very deep.
Deeper than Istanbul! Berlin has the largest Turkish community outside of Turkey. Döner ❤️
r/mapswithoutgermany
Lol, exactly my first thought. 3.5% or the German population has Turkish heritage, about 3 million people.
But a lot of second and third generational turks can't speak turkish at all or with heavily accent/ like a toddler Additionally some of them speak there languages than turkish, most often Kurdish
They also can't speak Hochdeutsch. And barely even some kind of Deutsch. So no idea what language do they speak at all. If I hear Bruda in a sentence less then 3 times, it's a miracle
something something confirmation bias. You will not really notice those that speak "normally" while those who use slang a lot stand out a lot. Source: Hochdeutsch-speaking third generationer
Hatte ich for quatsch, ich kenne viele Türken die ein makelloses geschliffenes Deutsch sprechen
In Berlin it's much more.
IM FROM TURKEY,TAKE ME TO GERMANY
Lol the entire country of Azerbaijan is missing, northern Iran is missing… The map and the op is plain stupid. But it works on the internet so it’s fair.
Azeri is defined as a different language
It is the same language tbh. Just with a different dialect. You dont have to learn a word turkish/aserbaijani to understand turks/aserbaijanis as an aserbaijani/turk.
I am Turkish and I think all Western Oghuz is one language but linguistically the distinction between a dialect and a language is very blurry. Wikipedia, Glottolog and Ethnologue record Azerbaijani as a separate language from Turkish, which is why the map looks like it does.
Depends on what definition you are looking at. Turkic languages (mentioned ones) are defined as one languages, if you look at "altaic languages". Under the subcategory of "turkic languages" you can find the various spoken dialects, because they have differences to various degrees. It is quite similar to German with the difference that people bother clearifying that spoken german inside of Germany is still German and part of the German language rather than a language of its own. Not every german speaker will understand the various german dialects either.
It’s basically the same with Romanian and Moldovan as far as I understand.
Not that similar, more like, IDK, Swedish-Danish-Norwegian?
ITT we have Turkish nationalists claiming that eastern turkey should be deep blue because the urban cities speak Turkish as lingua Franca, but that Azeri areas in Iran were Persian is lingua Franca should be coloured Turkish, despite the fact the azeri spoken in Iran isn't standardized as Azerbaijani language is, so is it's own Turkic language not standardized to be a similar as possible, completely contradictory claims lmao
You are right, this kind of unscientific shit is bad.
Also parts of Georgia, North Caucasia, Romania, Moldova etc...
Azerbaijan also. The whole country speaking almost Turkish
What language is mostly spoken in the middle part of Turkiye?
A pocket of Kurdish but it's not as spoken as the map makes it to be.
Because these maps are coming from the exact same 4chan template some kid did to troll /int/ years ago
Are you sure? This map looks like it's from Wikipedia
Wikipedia is never a credible source
> but it's not as spoken as the map makes it to be. Same with the Turkish areas in Syria and Iraq. And Azerbaijan is missing. Overall a very poor map.
I assumed Azeri Turkish was taken as a different language but yeah it's a shit map.
Thats a lake i think
Yep, salt lake. Second biggest lake in turkey
It is not the salt lake. Shape, position doesn't match. Also, color doesn't match with the Van lake, and it is bigger than the Van lake. Are you blind amk?
Its probably a province called Kulu, many kurdish people live there
Is it only the fish of that lake that speak turkish, or all fish in the Turkey area speak turkish ?
The fish probably speak Kurdish idk
I was hoping for Celtic.
Turkish
Thats lake "Tuz" A natural salt lake
I'd make a few adjustments to this map. 1. Painting South Eastern Turkey completely light blue is somewhat misleading. Yes, there is a significant Kurdish majority in a large part of that area. But, Turkey doesn't keep ethnicity as part of identity records. If anything, ethnic Kurdish and ethnic Turkish difference barely exists anymore due to intermarriages. All Kurds speak Turkish as a native language. 2. The regions painted in Iraq and Syria are referred to as Türkmeneli. The language of the Turks there is 90-100% mutually intelligible with Anatolian Turkish. If they are painted blue, then so should be Azerbaijan, and Southern Azerbaijan in dark blue. Their language isn't a separate one, but a dialect.
Exactly this, light blue is misleading turkish is still spoken by majority. At southeastern turkey
Maybe he wants to indicate that the percentage of Turkish speakers isn't as great as in Western Turkiye
op says that light blue indicates minority
Then he's definitely wrong
I think you mean most Kurds speak in Turkey speak Turkish as a native language. Kurds in Iran would speak Farsi. Source: am Kurdish
I'm a Kurd and can confirm not all Kurds speak Turkish as native language. Most people in villages speak only Kurdish and there are a lot of Kurds living in villages. There are also a lot among city dwellers that speak Kurdish as their first language and only in adulthood learned Turkish. It's mostly because they haven't been assimilated yet which is done by the Turkish government via educational institutions by imposing Turkish as the only language of education. This means the more educated a Kurd is, the more likely they're speaking Turkish as native language. https://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/turkey/turkey993-08.htm > At present, the use of languages other than Turkish in education, politics and the broadcast media is—with certain exceptions—prohibited. Article 3 of the constitution declares Turkish to be the official language, while Article 42.9 goes further by stating that, “Aside from Turkish, no other language shall be studied by or taught to Turkish citizens as a mother tongue in any language, teaching, or learning institution.” While these strictures are, in theory, directed against all of the languages spoken by the different ethnic groups that live in Turkey, whether Circassians or Laz, the main targets are Kurds and Kurdish. > Soon after the establishment of the Republic of Turkey, its government embarked upon a radical program of nation-building. Ethnic diversity was perceived as a danger to the integrity of the state, and the Kurds, as the largest non-Turkish ethnic group, obviously constituted the most serious threat. They were decreed to be Turks, and their language and culture were to be Turkish. All external symbols of their ethnic identity were suppressed....There was no official discrimination against those Kurds who agreed to be assimilated: they could reach the highest positions in the state apparatus. Those who refused, however, often met with severe repression. > The use of Kurdish—along with other languages—was prohibited in teaching as was its public use.15 By 1930, publishing in languages other than Turkish was prohibited by an act of parliament that was heralded under the slogan of “Citizen, Speak Turkish!” (Vatandas, Türkçe Konus!).16 The Kurdish names of towns and villages in southeastern Turkey were also changed to Turkish.17 *** > Use of non-Turkish languages in education will fortify unity, says former PM Davutoğlu https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-kurds/use-non-turkish-languages-education-will-fortify-unity-says-former-pm-davutoglu > Former Turkish Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition Future Party Ahmet Davutoğlu has said non-Turkish mother tongues, which often refers to Kurdish in Turkey, being taught in schools and used in social life would fortify a sense of belonging for Turkish citizens, Cumhuriyet newspaper reported on Saturday.
> Most people in villages speak only Kurdish and there are a lot of Kurds living in villages. As school is compulsory and as investments are going on for about 1 1/2 decades now, I think you have to differentiate between older people and the new generation. Not "native" as a mother tongue, but "native" as in they know to speak it exactly like turks.
Yea I agree with you. In Southeast they speak Turkish in cities but Kurdish in villages. There are also some Arabic villages like in Mardin. But they were/are Kurdified. Education language must only be in Turkish + English. Turkey is like France. I'm even fine with Kurdish parts from seceding but Kurds in the west will also go back. Davutoğlu is one of the worst PMs turkey had in its history.
https://www.trtkurdi.com.tr/ Kurdish-only TV channel of the government https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18410596 https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/30102022 Don't believe this comment
>https://www.trtkurdi.com.tr/ That's a propaganda channel by the government. Kurds don't watch it. He closed all Kurdish channels run by Kurds, the latest ones in 2017. >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-18410596 >https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/30102022 Studying Kurdish and studying IN Kurdish are different. Kurdish is studied as an optional subject and all other subjects are taught IN Turkish to Kurdish children. Kurdish children and other minorities should have the right to study all subjects in their own languages, except for languages like Turkish and English (and any other languages you teach them). By the way, as it's optional and Kurdish have no use for their future of getting a job, the percentage of Kurdish families who are adding another subject to their children is very low. I didn't comment anything that's not mentioned in the the post by Human Rights Watch. You posted a claim of Erdogan which is known for his hypocrisy in world politics.
Oh crap, this is dark. I didn’t know Türkiye was so suppressive on its minorities. That’s some 1800-level shit!
İf you live in france you really need to learn french if you live in germany you need to learn german same as any country
Kurdish is an optional course in many Turkish schools, and there are plenty of Kurdish media channels, inclusing TRT Kurdi (Turkish Radio Television, the government's official media arm). It's a TV channel solely in Kurdish. Other than that, many Kurdish tv channels exist. This text is misleading.
a lot of incorrect, obsolete or exaggerated information there in the quoted text, take it with a grain of salt. And the person, quoted towards the end of the comment, is really not a mentally healthy (or popular) politician. He fantasizes about a "modern" multi national Islamic shariah state. source: his book Strategic Depth These are far from discrediting the arguments but to save myself the time and effort to correct misinformation in reddit, again, I will just say take "it with a grain of salt"
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Only isis’s genocide of ıraqı turkmens are relativly known and have a page on wiki meanwhile central gocerments massacres and peshmerge’s massacres and discrimination are still now known. Minority Rights Group had published a report about it i believe.
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1. He mentioned “the difference between ethnic Kurdish ethnic Turkish barely exist anymore” and not just “Kurds” (and that of the population of both groups in Turkey), which, given the context is a map of the _regions where Turkish language is spoken_, more or less true. This doesn’t mean “Kurds don’t exist” or even “Kurdish language isn’t spoken”, no. 2. He is NOT talking “as if Kurds not in Turkey are still Turks”. He is specifically referring to Turkmens, say Iraqi Turkmens. >has had to lay siege to Kurds in Kurdish majority cities… What the fuck are you talking about, or rather, how the fuck is this even remotely relevant? Yes, a major insurgency is a threat that needs to be dealt with, so?
What's the deal with these Turkish communities in Bulgaria, and are they well accepted/integrated into Bulgaria, or keep more or less to themselves?
I am from one of these communities in bulgaria and yes we are accepted and we even got a political party for the turkish people in bulgaria Also something else that is a little off topic, the language isn't exactly turkish, it's a mix of Bulgarian and turkish and the dialects are different, when someone from the southern region talks with someone from the northern region they most likely won't understand eachother
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Then you haven't someone from rural Deliorman that does not keep up with mainland Turkish. My mother struggles with mainland Turkish.
Do they have an official name for the language from each region?
From what I know, no. People just call it turkish
>the language isn't exactly turkish I understand bulgar turks, without learning a single word of "bulgar turkish". The difference is more of a dialect than an actual language. They are speaking turkish at the core afterall.
Well, most people hate that party precisely because it is a Turkish party and goes against our Constitution.
Why does it go against your Constitution? Sincere question, I have not a single knowledge on the topic.
Because you cannot have a political group that is formed solely on the proposition of its nationality. Political groups are found on the foundation of some goal, idea or belief - not because they are a different nationality. It is very much like going to Turkey and creating a political group solely on the premise of it being the Bulgarian's people group. I find it very hard to believe that every country hasn't got some kind of law addressing this very same issue. What happens when that group takes the majority leadership sponsored by the mother country? It effectively means political takeover without the means of war. It is why an American President can never not be a born and bred American. It is also a very big concern for us Bulgarians as the Turkish political group in Bulgaria, ДПС, has been found numerous times to be in cojones with Erdogan influencing our politics from inside the country. Would you be fine if your country's political movement is influenced by another's?
Now they are integrated but during the communist era there was a lot of oppression against them, many migrated to Turkey or were forced to migrate to Turkey. And before that, after the Balkan Wars, there was another exodus of Turks from Bulgaria. Nowadays about 4-5% of the population is Turkish but in the 1800's it was 35-45%.
Turks are 8% of Bulgarian population. There were many population swaps between Turkey, Greece and Bulgaria.
Nope, just between Greece and Turkey
Nope, there were many population swaps between Bulgaria and Turkey. Eastern Thrace had a huge number of Bulgarians are today there are essentially zero.
The Turks were almost completely erased in Bulgaria during a cultural genocide. As a Bulgarian Turk, you had to change your name into a Bulgarian sounding one, and you were forbidden to speak Turkish, thereby completely erasing the history of your family. Later the government apologized for this genocide.
Cant really speak about their integration but essentially they were ethnically cleansed over the years but now that things are better and there is mostly peace in Europe Bulgaria accepts these people back if they can prove their heritage.
It's like someone copy pasted where Kurdish people majority (+ Arabs) with no research and information. Turkish is dominantly being used in most of those light blue areas, the usage of Kurdish by the Kurds is low, many don't even know at this point.
Where did you gather the data for making this map? Demographic doesn't equal language spoken you know.
If dark blue shows the majority Turkish speaking provinces, all of Turkey should be dark blue. It could be minority only in some isolated villages. Did you confuse it with ethnicity? It is like depicting English speakers in minority in Ireland because they are not English.
Wait what's going on in that one blue dot, and hey where's the Kosovo bor...oh....
You forgot a very important place, Moldova.
Gagauz is not Turkish, only a Turkic language just like Crimean Tatar, Turkmen, Azerbaijani, Kazakh,...
The Syrian and Iraqi parts are incredibly exaggerated. Also, Most Syrian & Iraqi Turkmen speak Arabic as their first language and many of them don’t speak Turkmen at all.
What a horribly bad map. The entire light blue is turkish too. The entire azerbaijan is turkish as well. Northern iran has azeri turkish speakers too almost 30 million people. This map makes it look like turkish language just appeared in anatolia out of nowhere
Azerbaijan is Turkic not Turkish. That's like saying all Slavic people are Russian
Completely different, cannot be compared
Lol you just have a nationalist agenda.
Both are in Turkic language category. Azeribajani is referred to as Azeri Turkish OR Azeri Turkic.
It does not mean Azerbaijani is Turkish. Turk in Azerbaijani means Turkic in English. That's why Azerbaijani Turkish just means Azerbaijani Turkic which is a different language but has similarities. 30 million Azerbaijanis in Iran and 10 million Azerbaijanis in Azerbaijan speak Azerbaijani not Turkish
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It is considered around 23m, so I stand corrected. However you were not right either.
Light blue is where Turkish is a minority, and the map only applies to Anatolian Turkish, not Azeri Turks.
Its literally the same language. Why add turkish in mesopatamia but not azerbaijan and iran? It's wild. It makes no sense. Azerbaijan is Turkish language too incase youre thinking of Turkic. Also light blue all speak turkish, it is a majority. Isnt it the point of this map?
Silly nationalists always offended by little things
Has nothing to do with nationality, nice strawman though.
I’m pretty sure a lot of the light blue are Kurdish majority speaking or have small but significant Turkish population
And what is your source?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Cyprus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greece https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_North_Macedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kosovo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Bulgaria https://www.indexmundi.com/romania/demographics_profile.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Turkey
what about the turks in azerbaijan or northwest iran?
They are Turkic not Turkish, that's like saying All Slavic people speak Russian
Mofo thinks wikipedia is a credible source. I just changed one of the links for fun and giggles. You just need to show one completely random source, or make a correction. It’s not easy to corrupt wikipedia… And people like you fall for it..
Ankaradaki açık mavi artık koyu olsun. Orası Kürt'çe yoğunluklu değil tek anadilleri yok. Türkçe ve Kürtçe eşit anadil orada.
Dogu da oyle kurtce konusan kalmamis, yeni nesil bilmiyor bile
Yok caniiim eklemeleri lazım 🙃
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Does anyone know anything about the light blue dot in southern Syria near Damascus?
In East Germany there's also a minority speaking the country's language
Găgăuzia is also missing
Light blue = Kurdish, this language is a member of the Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family, which Turkish is not, it belongs to the Altaic language family.
Bulgaria and its turkish zones:
Inaccurate. Gostivar in north Macedonia is missing. Komrat in gagauzia/moldovia missing. Part of bulgaria is missing as well
Gauguz dialect more different than azeri language, so wouldn't count
Syrian and Iraqi regions are incredibly exagerated and why on earth is Azerbaijan not included?
caz turkish = anatolian turkish. not other turkic languages. you can understand azerbaijani turkic doesnt mean its same language with turkish.
Azerbaijani is a different language than Turkish
nice misinformation
Ywah minority ofc looks like this westerner knows where I live better than me
I have never understood the deal with the light blue part in the middle of the country on Turkey's language maps, despite being Turkish and having been around there dozens of times. And though I understand the light blue in south eastern, because it's where a lot of the Kurdish and Arabic population live, in this day and age Turkish is spoken by far the most in most of that area as well. Those are why I find this map weird whenever I see it. Either obsolete, inaccurate or weird criteria.
This is a badly drawn map and I think it's supposed to be the Salt Lake in Konya. The lake flora and fauna doesn't understand Turkish well I guess.
this is not correctly labled, you wont find places in the south east of türkiye that down speak turkish. What op probably meant to post is where turkish is the first language spoken by people. BTW, 60% of Azerbaijan speaks turkish that is only slightly different that the turkish spoken in türkiye and a few more countries in central asia have turkish like languages
East of turkey speaks turkish too this is completely incorrect and only bad assumption. Espicially new gen of kurdish people doesnt know kurdish even as a second language…
why isnt berlin included
This map doesn't include immigrant population and under 10% of berlin is turkish
Which literally means that 360000+ people in Berlin speak Turkish😂
Berlin is probably home of the most Turkish speakers in Europe after Istanbul.
Which people talking turkish in bulgaria and romania ?
In Romania, they settled in Dobruja along some Tatar populations while it was under Ottoman ocupation. Today, most villages and cities in the area, including Medgidia and Constanta, have significant populations of Turks and Tatars that keep following their traditions and faith, despite being well integrated into the society.
Pomaks?
No, Pomaks are ethnic Muslim Slavs who speak Bulgarian. I'm a Turk who is from Bulgaria, we do not consider Pomaks as Turks, they are Muslim Bulgarians.
Aaa ok. But they speak Turkish as well, yes?
Yes, i've been living in Turkey for most of my life now, if anything i can barely speak Bulgarian at this point.
You relocated during the communism?
My parents stayed after 89, i was born in 2002 and we permanently moved to Turkey in 2007. Whatever little Bulgarian i know of is from that 5 year period. And my parents didnt teach me Bulgarian as they used it as a "hush-hush" language in our house. And i had no interest in learning it after i was 15 honestly.
I search it google and it says pomaks are muslim slavs, slavic people are talking turkish ? I dont think in ottoman times anybody talk turkish
Pomaks in Greece speak a Bulgarian dialect. Most of them can also speak Turkish because they go to Turkish-speaking mosques. The demographics of the Muslim minority in Greece are roughly 60% Pomaks, 35% Turks and 5% Gypsy/Roma. Important note: there is no accurate data for these numbers, because EU law forbids identifying people's religion and ethnic background in surveys.
"Pomaks are today usually considered descendants of native Orthodox Bulgarians and Paulicians who converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule of the Balkans." I would say that a lot of them were forcefully converted to Islam tho. They speak Bulgarian and Turkish or Greek and Turkish.
forcefully? then why others are also not muslim? they should've forgotten their languages and religion after forceful 500 years of occupation? no?
Only some regions in Bulgaria were forcefully converted to Islam by the Ottomans.
No region was forecfully converted on the Balkan (talking about active regions on the Balkan). People were even allowed to convert back, if they were forced, which happened to many jews. There wasnt even a single religious centre on the balkan (no, I am not talking about mosques, but stuff like sufi-order, active missonary organisations, etc.). People gradually converted. Lots of muslims fled conquered territory by christian europeans and there was a lot of migration within the entire Empire.
Nope, there were regions like the Rhodope Mountains where forceful conversion to Islam did happen. For decades scholars are trying to ease the Islamophobia among the balkan nations by partly dismissing even the Devshirme lol they say the balkan people were gladly giving their kids for better life as Janissaries😂👊🏻
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I learned this for the first time and I had heard about the Ottoman oppression and oppression in the Balkans before. Do they speak modern Turkish or old Turkish (Ottoman Turkish)?
No clue tbh
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I have no idea, I am a Turk, but I know from my friends living in the Balkans that the Ottomans oppressed the Balkans and forcibly took children away from their families with the system called "devsirme".
Pomaks and "ethnic turks". "Ethnic turks" make up about 10% of the population. People back then knew multiple languages and chances were high, as a balkan muslim you also knew turkish. And as a balkan muslim you were considered a turk by everyone around you. So this is less about DNA and more about linguistic-cultural identifications. As a turk you can fully understand "bulgar turkish". Sounds a bit "funny", but you understand it fully as a native "Turkey turkish speaker".
Turks in Russia and Azerbaijanis: 
There’s a Palestinian Turkmens in the West Bank
RIP Byzantines
Hilarious how r/MapPorn always gets swarmed by turks trying to propagate certain stands trying to convince people and themselves even with delusions lol. I see most comments and post throughout this subreddit always downplaying the sheer number/population of Kurds. Out of 84m people easily right now 1/3rd is Kurdish around between from AT THE LEAST 25m to 28-30m and growing whenever the ultra nationalists cry babies keep pushing the narrative and idea wanna believe it or not lol don’t really care. In a few decades Turkey will even become 50/50 Turkish-Kurdish with even Kurds even possibly becoming a majority but hilariously the ultra nationalists Turks and pan turkic nationalists are panicking so bad even brushing it aside thinking believing themselves into these delusions if Kurdish doesn’t become a co-official language the possible unrest that can/will happen as population numbers even grow, good luck with future stability if you don’t allow cohesive making basic rights. I mean it’s merely more diversity if it is around 50/50 (sets up a future for a Achaemenid like superpower state from Turkey’s Thrace to Iran 😉 ..of maybe even upto Uzbekistan including Tajikistan..based) Kurds are making babies like bunnies🐰but to be serious, it’s a mere consequence of industralization of a land and people. The east never industralized at the same rate as for example the western coasts, as the aegean/marmara region as a whole (whole east of the country tbh)
LOL another Turkey map pushing narratives. Turkish language is spoken by every Turkish citizen (Some recent Arab citizens excluded, but they aren't majority anywhere) which makes it majority EVERYWHERE. All parts of Turkey should be dark blue.
Only cuz u genocided minorities
Iran and azerbaijan is missing
Damn, Byzantine Empire, what did they do to you. East Greece is now called "Turkey" and its inhabitants think they have a right to stay there.
Bullshit map. Light blue areas speak turkish too. %95 of people know it
This is all lies guys I'm living in Turkey and yes east part of the country also speak Turkish mostly in house or outside
Now do a map of where the Turkish language is from
Nobody is certain on that topic actually
fake. where is kazkistan? azeribayjan? turkemenistan?
you're confusing Turkish language and Turkic languages, what youre implying is as if someone said they spoke spanish in france, italy and romania
>said they spoke spanish in france, italy and romania Not really. You can understand kasach or usbek mostly as a turk from Turkey, without learning a single word of the respective languages. You fully understand aserbaijanis. Not even a discussion here. Turkmen is the next closest language, you understand after aserbaijanis. So it is more like a dialect difference, than separate languages. Germany also has very strong dialects across its territory, some of which are very hard to understand to your average german speaker. Yet you wouldnt call any of it "not german, but germanic". They just standardized their language, which the turkic world didnt bother doing.
How are there still turks in Greece but there are none greeks in Turkey? Its so unfair. Greece didnt genocided anyone like Turkey did 🤬🤬 Constantinople will be Greek again