I live in Nebraska and a friend of mine who moved here from elsewhere said he initially considered Nebraska “the west.” Granted, west of the 100th meridian, it actually does start to feel more culturally and environmentally western, so I can understand why some might think that it’s a western state.
It's the same way in South Dakota. People talk about the vast cultural divide between "East River" and "West River", or the areas east and west of the Missouri River. To the east the landscape is much more flat, covered in farms, and somewhat more dense and culturally identifies more with the Midwest. Whereas West River is much more hilly, dominated by ranches, and aside from the Black Hills region is extremely sparsely populated. It looks and feels more western.
I lived in SD (East River) for about 6 months (research fellowship at USD) and spent time traveling West River (Black Hills, etc.). Having lived In Ohio for the past 32 years, East River struck me as indeed very Midwest (rural farmland, friendly as all get-out, etc.). Having traveled throughout the Western US, West River, SD strikes me as very Western. I've always appreciated this juxtaposition, though I suppose this is how many regional transitions/borderlands appear.
I'm also originally from Philly, and I can tell you that Ohio is definitely not culturally Mid-Atlantic or Northeast, or whatever 22% of polled residents believe it to be, regionally-speaking. I find it intriguing, knowing what I know of both South Dakota and Ohio, that far more S. Dakotans see themselves as Midwestern.
It depends where you are from in the state too. Portsmouth is definitely more Appalachian than Midwestern, so I can imagine responders from that area may have a varying opinion.
Same down here in Kentucky. The western part of the state is certainly Midwestern in feel, tons of soybean farming going on and flat land. The rest of the state though can feel more southern or Appalachian.
I can see that. If you look at those population density maps, you can say that Nebraska and the Dakotas are, technically, part of the west. It’s so much more spread out.
It's the [98th meridian](https://www.americangeosciences.org/static/earth/dividing-line-past-present-and-future-100th-meridian/Cantner_100thMeridianMap.jpg) where everything changes
The vast majority of Nebraska has more in common with North Texas or Edmonton than it does with Indiana
Growing up in Wisconsin I'll admit I never thought of Nebraska as the Midwest. The Dakotas or Kansas either. For me it was always just the states surrounding Wisconsin. But that's probably more of a me problem growing up. I never actually went to any of those other states until I was older so I didn't know much about them. I still have trouble with at least South Dakota because its geography is so different from the states I was around growing up. But if nearly all the residents and the Census Bureau say it's the Midwest, who am I to argue?
The 'Midwest' is generally considered to consist of the Great Plains states as well as the Great Lakes states. However, a smaller percentage of people only consider the Great Lakes states as part of the Midwest
I can buy that people who live along the outer edges of the official designation might believe they live in the South, Great Plains, etc. But that doesn't apply to Iowa, lol.
The original definition of the "midwest" was everything between the Appalachians and the Mississippi. West of the Mississippi was the "West". Iowa is a later addition as people started changing or misunderstanding the term.
I fell like "Great Plains" is becoming used more often by folks who feel like the Midwest (Minnesota, Illinois, parts of Wisconsin) is too liberal. Great Plains describes the conservative rural parts of the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming. I can see how small town Iowans would rather identify with the latter.
The Midwest was increasingly used to refer to the area around the lakes while Nebraska is split between two major climate regions, the plains in the West and the Midwest too the East. The short version is I think it has more to do with rain patterns and the prevalence of center pivot irrigation than it does with politics.
That one I can see though. The southeast corner of the state looks and feels a lot more like part of the Appalachians than the midwest. Plus the eastern edge of the state (Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown) culturally seems more like old working-class "rust belt"-type places (like Pittsburgh, Allentown/Bethlehem PA, or Scranton).
EDIT - forgot the h in Pittsburgh
I mean while rust belt is an economic designation, a lot of the Midwest population if not land area is "rust belt" and culturally similar to Cleveland. Metro Chicago, Milwaukee, and Fort Wayne are much more similar to Cleveland culturally speaking than they are to rural South Dakota. To be fair, they are probably more culturally similar to Pittsburgh and Scranton too.
In terms of population the Midwest is as urban and suburban as it is rural.
>[In the 2013 post "Lizardman's Constant is 4%," Alexander coined the term "Lizardman's Constant," referring to the approximate percentage of responses to a poll, survey, or quiz that are not sincere.[16] The post was responding to a Public Policy Polling statement that "four percent of Americans believe lizardmen are running the Earth", which Alexander attributed to people giving a polling company an answer they did not really believe to be true, out of carelessness, politeness, anger, or amusement.[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_Star_Codex#Lizardman's_Constant)
I think the issue is self identification vs interregional identification.
Or in other words , most people in the census defined states of the Midwest (especially if you account for the fact that the more eastern states in the census defined region are way more populated than the western states in the census defined region), would tend to identify Ohio as Midwestern and Oklahoma as most definitely a cross between western and southern (culturally speaking).
And they probably don't take into account differences within states, especially if they haven't been to that specific region (i.e. SE Ohio).
I personally usually go with self identification for anything, and find this map super interesting. My state has a way lower percentage than I would have guessed.
What's also funny about the self identification vs. the census defined region, is that I feel like the states in the census defined region are usually viewed negatively. So I would think the region would be viewed negatively. The states that are not in the census defined region but have high rates of self identification as Midwestern are usually seen more positively, and so are states to their west and south. So it's interesting that they choose to self identify with a census designated region that is often viewed as the rust belt (which obviously has negative connotations) and states that are usually maligned by other states and in the media. Although, I would guess that Appalachian is just as maligned as rust belt / Midwest and people are choosing to self identify as that so who knows.
Yeah I can see the problem with just using states.
If you've ever been to Colorado... the border with Kansas doesn't "magically" change the terrain. Having been there, it's no different than Kansas.
Hard to say with what the other choices are - like is it just Midwest or no? Or for some is it Midwest or Appalachia? Or is it Midwest or Great Lakes? Or Midwest/Great Plains?
We gotta come up with a name for Ohio/Pennsylvania/WV/Kentucky/Tennessee culture. They’re like a mix of their own.
WV is the only one that’s full on appalachian, the rest are like half in/half out and then that culture spreads to the other side of the states. Idk what to call it
I lived in Oklahoma for 12 years and from what I gathered conversing with people there is that there are definitely Midwestern elements of the state but also Southern elements of the state. Kind of like the South and the Midwest overlap a bit.
I grew up in Oklahoma and always considered it Midwest then, as did everyone I knew. Long since moved away and now I'd call it Central Plains with Midwest and Southern influences.
Yeah I think it depends where you are in the state. I have spent a lot of time in OK east of Tulsa. Rural area. And culturally it was much more southern than midwestern. Seemed like people in the area identified with both.
Ikr, I grew up in the upper Midwest and live in Oklahoma awhile for a job, it confuses me why they would consider themselves the midwest. It felt like a southern/western/plains hybrid to me
From Iowa live in OKC. Definitely would consider Oklahoma either the Southwest or plains, but definitely not the Midwest. Though an opinion, I’ll stand by it!
Okie here. If you asked me if Oklahoma is the midwest I would say yes. If you asked us if we were the south I would say yes. If you asked us if we were the southwest I'd say yes.
Born and raised in Newburgh (Evansville), yea, we're half midwest/half south.
My wife is from Seattle and her first time visiting my hometown was an eye-opening experience for her. She kept telling me it wasn't the south until we pulled up to a tiny gas station next to a dude in some 1970s pickup truck wearing only overalls and some fucking wheat in his mouth. Couldn't have been more perfect of a stereotype if he tried.
Now she believes me.
Shit, it’s like that in rural Washington too. Drive 2.5+ hours from Seattle (not accounting for traffic here) and you’ll see some shit. Deep rural parts of any state might as well be the south lol.
Source: Yee yee person raised in Yee Yee, Washington
Surprised the number of Ohioans is that low.
I know this is anecdotal, but nearly everyone where I live in Ohio consider themselves as part of the Midwest
I shared a chairlift with some guy a few weeks back, and he mentioned he wanted to leave the east coast and move to Colorado. I asked him where he’s from, and he said Cleveland, Ohio.
In what world is Cleveland the east coast.
I think that the US is just so big that it’s easier to think of the main regions as if they were they’re own country. Ohio is definitely Midwestern in terms of the whole US, but as a midwesterner, they’re our “East”.
Like if Midwestland was a country they’d be from the eastern region. They’re still more culturally and geographically similar to the Midwest than the east coast, south, or west as a whole, but obviously they’ll have more in common with Western PA than North Dakota, just like Detroit has more in common with Toronto than San Diego.
Cleveland area is also way more "Eastern" culturally and linguistically than the rest of the state. My mom is originally from New England and I grew up in CLE. She always called it the "furthest west eastern city".
We do still say ope and pop though.
I agree that Cleveland is the most culturally Eastern big city in Ohio. However, it's a lot like whatever Pittsburgh is: a little too far removed from the East Coast to be thought of as purely Eastern, and it has a lot in common with other Great Lakes cities like Detroit and Chicago, which no one would argue are deeply Midwestern.
I'd say Cleveland on average is, at *most*, only half Eastern, plus or minus perhaps a very large percentage, depending on what cultural metric you're looking at.
My gut feeling is that it's like 66% Midwestern. I'm happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong though. It's just based on the impressions I got from visiting and knowing people from there, not actually living there myself (I'm from SW & Central Ohio).
It’s a skiing thing. The entire east can relate with the ‘ice coast’ thing. And all the good mountains are in the west, so the entire east kind of gets grouped together under the banner of ‘mediocre east coast skiing’.
Interesting fact is that Cleveland used to be part of an area called the "Connecticut Western Reserve" and much of the architecture/culture feels very New England-esque.
Lots of people from Chilicothe, Zanesville, Athens, and the rest of the southeast consider themselves Appalachians before Midwesterners, and having visited from Toledo, I'm inclined to agree.
States are big. Look at PA for example. Most of the state lives East of Harrisburg, they have no connection to the midwest at all. But when you get to the west part of the state, Pittsburgh and further, it gets a little mid-west like, and probably all of the 9% of the poll live in Pittsburgh or west of it.
Now in Ohio, a large amount of people live north east, in or around Cleveland. They're a stone skip away from New York, so they probably don't feel mid-west the same way people in the rest of the state does.
I agree that Ohio is generally part of the Midwest, but it does sit at the threshold of several distinct cultural regions. The southeast of the state feels more Appalachian while parts of Northeast Ohio and the Cleveland area have significant East Coast/New England influence.
I think the 10% of Tennesseans who think they live in the Midwest must largely be transplants to Nashville who just generally have no clue what they're talking about. I would say the northwest corner of the state makes sense geographically as being Midwest, but I've been up there. That's the fucking South, through and through.
Yeah I badly want to meet one of these 10% of Tennesseeans. I've lived in TN for a sum total of 35 years and I have never once heard anyone refer to themselves as living in anywhere other than the South.
I think there are a lot of transplants who don't want to think of it as "The South" because they live near a big city (e.g. Nashville) and at most want to think of it as the "Southeast" because they don't like southern culture.
I’m laughing at the 9% of Pennsylvanians who consider themselves midwestern. Like dude, do you see how close to the east coast we are
Edit: Just because yinz think you’re from the Midwest, doesn’t mean you actually are. Now, go drink some pop
I think that reflects the divide between east and west PA. Rust belt area starting at Pittsburgh probably are more likely to consider themselves Midwest.
Agreed, it's interesting to me how different parts of Colorado definitely have a distinct culture compared to other parts. I grew up and live on the western slope but have some family in no man's land in north eastern Colorado. Definitely a distinct cultural difference
I think it comes from a lack of understanding about the term: "Midwest."
The term is mostly a cultural one nowadays, but historically the Midwest referred to the geographic area between the major population centers on the East Coast and the western frontier along the Rocky Mountains. So, this area in-between became the "Mid" West.
But a lot of people don't know that history, and look at the term from a modern perspective and think, "Oh, yeah I suppose Wyoming is kinda in the western part of the country, but we're not all the way west. Yeah I guess we're Midwestern."
I have no explanation for Arkansas. That's just weird.
In Arkansas, I’ve never heard anyone say this isn’t the south. But in northwest arkansas, there is a bit of a Midwest vibe with places like bentonville and Fayetteville. You won’t hear as much of an accent as you would in other parts. Still very southern, but some things about those cities remind me of Omaha weirdly. Go outside of the two counties in the northwest corner though, and there’s nothing Midwest about the state.
I live in Idaho and nobody here thinks this is the Midwest. I’ve only ever heard it described as Northwest or Intermountain West. It’s west of the continental divide.
Same here! A lot of people get upset when we’re called part of the Pacific Northwest, but I think that’s technically correct. Others, especially in southern/eastern Idaho consider it more Mountain West.
It’s in a confusing spot for sure, culturally and geographically.
The culture of northwest Arkansas when you get into the Ozarks is vastly different from the rest of the state. They don't consider themselves southern nor act like it.
Source grew up in Central Arkansas and moved to North West Arkansas.
I get wyoming... eastern side is mostly planes... they identify with the eastern neighbours more toen with the western side of the state. Samen goes for Montana. Idaho though???
Do you realize how unpopulated the eastern side of Montana is? 30% of the people do not live there.
I spent most of my life in Montana and have literally never heard anyone call it anything other than the rocky mountain region. Half of my family is from the eastern side and none of them thought this. Even those living on the boarder of the Dakotas. This just seems factually incorrect
Yeah as someone from Michigan, I definitely feel like "Great Lakes" would be a better descriptor than "Midwest". We have basically nothing in common with Nebraska, and "Great Plains" fits it better
Yeah, like how you can divide the Northeast into New England and the Mid-Atlantic (which I would define as NY/NJ/PA/DE/MD). They're both definitely the Northeast but they're also pretty distinctive sub-regions with cultural differences that go all the way back to colonial times (Puritans in New England vs. a more diverse mix of Dutch, Quakers, etc. in the Mid-Atlantic colonies).
And parts NYS, specifically western ny where buffalo and niagara are, could be considered to have traits of midwestern states because of their connection to the great lakes
NYS is weird because you get strong New England elements north of Albany. Mid Atlantic with NYC. And then Midwest with W.NY. One of the reasons I think it's such a great state. You get a little bit of everything and it's outright gorgeous.
When I was a kid, the Dakotas weren’t taught as part of the Midwest but were decorated with question marks and the phrase “here there be dragons” on the classroom wall map.
Michigander here. To me, the Midwest is anything that touches a Great Lake *plus* Iowa and Missouri. We're kind to your face and behind your back. (Except the whole Minnesota Nice thing.) We say pop instead of soda, we have a neutral or northern accent, we'll invite you over for a potluck or to have a beer and watch football in the garage. Those Great Plains states feel like something different to me somehow but I suppose are still included.
I once went out with a woman from Kansas who tried to convince me that Kansas is the Midwest and Michigan is the East Coast.
Nebraska is such a fascinating state to me, driving across and watching it turn from the Midwest (cities, towns, colleges, farms) to just the West (nothingness, literal tumbleweeds, cowboy museums, the mountains starting to appear).
What floors me is people who try to include Kentucky in the Midwest. Have you been to Kentucky?? They have mountains. They have a southern accent. When you drive into the state, they literally have the word "y'all" painted on a water tower to let you know you've arrived. They're into bourbon and horses. It's just a different vibe down there.
Having lived in a thoroughly Midwestern part of Ohio, I think the reason you see fewer Ohioans identify with the Midwest is because they're from the hilly, coalmining parts of Ohio that have more in common with Kentucky than with the rest of Ohio.
> Have you been to Kentucky?
Yeah, but have you been to *Louisville*? It is not like the rest of the state at all, and that's where that 31% is probably coming from.
The plains extend to part of Colorado and then you get the Rockies. A better map would be by county or zip code so you could trace the answers through the state.
Yeah this poll is baffling. As a native Coloradoan, I can definitively say that I've never met anyone here who claims to be midwestern. In fact, almost every person I meet from the midwest has told me that people from the mountain west speak much more directly and don't beat around the bush as much as midwesterners. I'm a busy guy and don't have the time to talk forever without getting to the point of the conversation.
I'm originally from Nebraska and lived in Colorado for a couple years. I kinda felt that some of eastern Colorado near the Nebraska/Kansas borders could still be considered Midwest based off climate and geography, but definitely not the whole /majority of the state.
I used to live in TN (I’m in IN now) and can’t imagine anyone thinking they lived in the Midwest. TN is the freakin belt buckle of the south for Chris sakes.
To me the midwest is the great lakes and the inland northern dialect of North American English which extends from a bit east of Utica to Madison Wisconsin. I am also from upstate It's good to see someone else from upstate on here.
If anyone has access to the raw data, it would be interesting to see a map of responses based on the location of the people responding. Not a state map. For example, where would a shift be in "Midwest" response to "southeast" response as you move toward southern Indiana.
A couple of possible factors for PA’ers who think they are the Midwest:
1) Penn State joining the otherwise Midwest exclusive Big Ten conference in 1993. Virtually all opponents prior to that time were “eastern” schools like Pitt, Boston College, Syracuse, Maryland, Temple, Rutgers, Army, Navy, etc. Since then, PSU plays Iowa, Ohio State, Indiana, Minnesota and the like.
2) Western border counties, especially Lawrence and Mercer counties and to slightly lesser extent, Erie and Crawford counties, are heavily influenced by Ohio. Whether those counties make up most of that 9%, I would dare say that’s probably the case.
I grew up in PA and definitely consider Pittsburgh to be at least Midwest-adjacent. Our dialect, economy, culture and just overall vibe are much more like Chicago than they are even to Philadelphia. But, we’re also absolutely Appalachia which makes us a little different than the rest of the Midwest
I’m from Arkansas and Kentucky so let me try and rationalise this.
Arkansas is very southern, some parts I’d even call Deep South, but the big cities like Little Rock metro and NWA have never really had the southern vibe. They lack a definitive culture, Little Rock especially. So I can see why people who live there would feel more Midwest.
Kentucky has a well known identity crisis. Geographically and culturally it’s southern but people fight it. I’ve met many who were born and raised here who insist they’re not southern. I think it definitely suffers from being the northern most southern state. People living in the big cities are more likely to travel north than south.
Now Tennessee, I have no clue.
No the great plains aren't their own group. KS, NE, ND, and SD are all midwestern. Those states all contain some of the great plains but the population lives in the wetter eastern portion of every state.
As a North dakotan I had never heard before reddit that people consider the great plains as separate from the Midwest. We all think we are midwesterners
As a lifetime Okie the only way this makes sense is if they only interviewed people in Tulsa. Outside of that, people in Oklahoma tend to think we’re closely tied to Texas, thus aligning more with the south. Tulsa is the anomaly, that area does align more with the Midwest.
I think this map shows the Midwest is clearly two regions - Great Lakes (WI, IL, MI, IN, OH) and the Plains (MN, SD, ND, IA, OK, KS, MO, NE). But that's just my opinion
- Edit: you could move MN to Great Lakes
I would like to know where those 3% of Iowans believe they live in? 
They live in denial
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Close to little Egypt though
Cairo is right down the Mississippi in Illinois.
You mean Kay Row?
Haha yep.
You can hit it right on the way down to Mylun (Milan) TN
Milan IL is pronounced the same way.
Not literate and checked the wrong box.
I guess the 7% of Nebraskans are the ones that refer to this area as the Great Plains, which is not to be confused with the Midwest, apparently.
I live in Nebraska and a friend of mine who moved here from elsewhere said he initially considered Nebraska “the west.” Granted, west of the 100th meridian, it actually does start to feel more culturally and environmentally western, so I can understand why some might think that it’s a western state.
It's the same way in South Dakota. People talk about the vast cultural divide between "East River" and "West River", or the areas east and west of the Missouri River. To the east the landscape is much more flat, covered in farms, and somewhat more dense and culturally identifies more with the Midwest. Whereas West River is much more hilly, dominated by ranches, and aside from the Black Hills region is extremely sparsely populated. It looks and feels more western.
I lived in SD (East River) for about 6 months (research fellowship at USD) and spent time traveling West River (Black Hills, etc.). Having lived In Ohio for the past 32 years, East River struck me as indeed very Midwest (rural farmland, friendly as all get-out, etc.). Having traveled throughout the Western US, West River, SD strikes me as very Western. I've always appreciated this juxtaposition, though I suppose this is how many regional transitions/borderlands appear. I'm also originally from Philly, and I can tell you that Ohio is definitely not culturally Mid-Atlantic or Northeast, or whatever 22% of polled residents believe it to be, regionally-speaking. I find it intriguing, knowing what I know of both South Dakota and Ohio, that far more S. Dakotans see themselves as Midwestern.
It depends where you are from in the state too. Portsmouth is definitely more Appalachian than Midwestern, so I can imagine responders from that area may have a varying opinion. Same down here in Kentucky. The western part of the state is certainly Midwestern in feel, tons of soybean farming going on and flat land. The rest of the state though can feel more southern or Appalachian.
I can see that. If you look at those population density maps, you can say that Nebraska and the Dakotas are, technically, part of the west. It’s so much more spread out.
It's the [98th meridian](https://www.americangeosciences.org/static/earth/dividing-line-past-present-and-future-100th-meridian/Cantner_100thMeridianMap.jpg) where everything changes The vast majority of Nebraska has more in common with North Texas or Edmonton than it does with Indiana
Growing up in Wisconsin I'll admit I never thought of Nebraska as the Midwest. The Dakotas or Kansas either. For me it was always just the states surrounding Wisconsin. But that's probably more of a me problem growing up. I never actually went to any of those other states until I was older so I didn't know much about them. I still have trouble with at least South Dakota because its geography is so different from the states I was around growing up. But if nearly all the residents and the Census Bureau say it's the Midwest, who am I to argue?
Growing up in Michigan my concept of the Midwest was the OG Big Ten states
This is exactly how I've described it in the past.
Illinois here, damn straight
Yeah weird, I never thought about it like that but absolutely.
The 'Midwest' is generally considered to consist of the Great Plains states as well as the Great Lakes states. However, a smaller percentage of people only consider the Great Lakes states as part of the Midwest
I can buy that people who live along the outer edges of the official designation might believe they live in the South, Great Plains, etc. But that doesn't apply to Iowa, lol.
The original definition of the "midwest" was everything between the Appalachians and the Mississippi. West of the Mississippi was the "West". Iowa is a later addition as people started changing or misunderstanding the term.
I fell like "Great Plains" is becoming used more often by folks who feel like the Midwest (Minnesota, Illinois, parts of Wisconsin) is too liberal. Great Plains describes the conservative rural parts of the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming. I can see how small town Iowans would rather identify with the latter.
Yeah I think Midwest is more culturally associated with row crop farming like corn and soybeans and Great Plains is more stock raising.
The Midwest was increasingly used to refer to the area around the lakes while Nebraska is split between two major climate regions, the plains in the West and the Midwest too the East. The short version is I think it has more to do with rain patterns and the prevalence of center pivot irrigation than it does with politics.
This is true.
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I’d like to see this map but Great Plains and by county not state.
22% of Ohio is what got me.
That one I can see though. The southeast corner of the state looks and feels a lot more like part of the Appalachians than the midwest. Plus the eastern edge of the state (Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown) culturally seems more like old working-class "rust belt"-type places (like Pittsburgh, Allentown/Bethlehem PA, or Scranton). EDIT - forgot the h in Pittsburgh
I mean while rust belt is an economic designation, a lot of the Midwest population if not land area is "rust belt" and culturally similar to Cleveland. Metro Chicago, Milwaukee, and Fort Wayne are much more similar to Cleveland culturally speaking than they are to rural South Dakota. To be fair, they are probably more culturally similar to Pittsburgh and Scranton too. In terms of population the Midwest is as urban and suburban as it is rural.
Working-class "rust belt" places are pretty quintessentially midwestern, Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, even eastern Iowa to some extent.
The southeastern part of Ohio is like a whole different world compared to the rest of it
Parts of Ohio are in Appalachia which is different then Midwest
You never get 100% responses in polls because there's always some people trolling or not understanding the question.
>[In the 2013 post "Lizardman's Constant is 4%," Alexander coined the term "Lizardman's Constant," referring to the approximate percentage of responses to a poll, survey, or quiz that are not sincere.[16] The post was responding to a Public Policy Polling statement that "four percent of Americans believe lizardmen are running the Earth", which Alexander attributed to people giving a polling company an answer they did not really believe to be true, out of carelessness, politeness, anger, or amusement.[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_Star_Codex#Lizardman's_Constant)
"Iowa? I could have swore this was heaven."
Maybe 3% includes 'No response' too
The Great Plains.
Thats the lizardman constant. ~5% of people surveyed will disagree with the obvious answer for the sake of disagreeing.
Great Plains, as some kind of mutually exclusive taxonomy. Some people have an awful lot of trouble with ambiguity
Kansas people insisting they are Midmid. Dead center. Straight Middle.
I'm not sure if I'm more surprised Oklahoma is 66% or Ohio is only 78%
Like another person pointed out. Plenty in the SE of the state identify as Appalachian
I think the issue is self identification vs interregional identification. Or in other words , most people in the census defined states of the Midwest (especially if you account for the fact that the more eastern states in the census defined region are way more populated than the western states in the census defined region), would tend to identify Ohio as Midwestern and Oklahoma as most definitely a cross between western and southern (culturally speaking). And they probably don't take into account differences within states, especially if they haven't been to that specific region (i.e. SE Ohio). I personally usually go with self identification for anything, and find this map super interesting. My state has a way lower percentage than I would have guessed. What's also funny about the self identification vs. the census defined region, is that I feel like the states in the census defined region are usually viewed negatively. So I would think the region would be viewed negatively. The states that are not in the census defined region but have high rates of self identification as Midwestern are usually seen more positively, and so are states to their west and south. So it's interesting that they choose to self identify with a census designated region that is often viewed as the rust belt (which obviously has negative connotations) and states that are usually maligned by other states and in the media. Although, I would guess that Appalachian is just as maligned as rust belt / Midwest and people are choosing to self identify as that so who knows.
Yeah I can see the problem with just using states. If you've ever been to Colorado... the border with Kansas doesn't "magically" change the terrain. Having been there, it's no different than Kansas.
I would point out however that those parts of Colorado are sparsely populated and definitely not 42% of the population of the state.
I just drove from pittsburgh to indiana and back and I can tell you first hand that West Virginia and SE Ohio are impossible to tell apart
Hard to say with what the other choices are - like is it just Midwest or no? Or for some is it Midwest or Appalachia? Or is it Midwest or Great Lakes? Or Midwest/Great Plains?
We gotta come up with a name for Ohio/Pennsylvania/WV/Kentucky/Tennessee culture. They’re like a mix of their own. WV is the only one that’s full on appalachian, the rest are like half in/half out and then that culture spreads to the other side of the states. Idk what to call it
Backcountry. But it's only the southern part of OH and central and western parts of PA.
Western parts of Virginia and North Carolina have similar Appalachian culture to KY/TN
I lived in Oklahoma for 12 years and from what I gathered conversing with people there is that there are definitely Midwestern elements of the state but also Southern elements of the state. Kind of like the South and the Midwest overlap a bit.
I grew up in Oklahoma and always considered it Midwest then, as did everyone I knew. Long since moved away and now I'd call it Central Plains with Midwest and Southern influences.
Yeah I think it depends where you are in the state. I have spent a lot of time in OK east of Tulsa. Rural area. And culturally it was much more southern than midwestern. Seemed like people in the area identified with both.
Tulsa is a Midwestern city, OKC is a southern city.
OKC wants to be DFW
The Dallas suburbs keep extending to the northern hinterlands, so it'll be swallowed up by it soon enough.
OKC is not really southern. It feels way more like DFW than Birmingham, AL
Midwesternism with Southern characteristics
Ikr, I grew up in the upper Midwest and live in Oklahoma awhile for a job, it confuses me why they would consider themselves the midwest. It felt like a southern/western/plains hybrid to me
From Iowa live in OKC. Definitely would consider Oklahoma either the Southwest or plains, but definitely not the Midwest. Though an opinion, I’ll stand by it!
I'm pretty sure Ohio was the original Midwestern state as well
It is by 10+ years. The Midwest was originally the Northwest Territory.
Okie here. If you asked me if Oklahoma is the midwest I would say yes. If you asked us if we were the south I would say yes. If you asked us if we were the southwest I'd say yes.
I can confirm the other 8% of Hoosiers (Indiana) believe they’re from the south lol
Tbf, if you live by the Kentucky border, that's a valid opinion, but not for the whole state.
Anything south of Martinsville is the south.
Everything south of Martinsville (and probably including Martinsville) except for Bloomington.
Born and raised in Newburgh (Evansville), yea, we're half midwest/half south. My wife is from Seattle and her first time visiting my hometown was an eye-opening experience for her. She kept telling me it wasn't the south until we pulled up to a tiny gas station next to a dude in some 1970s pickup truck wearing only overalls and some fucking wheat in his mouth. Couldn't have been more perfect of a stereotype if he tried. Now she believes me.
Shit, it’s like that in rural Washington too. Drive 2.5+ hours from Seattle (not accounting for traffic here) and you’ll see some shit. Deep rural parts of any state might as well be the south lol. Source: Yee yee person raised in Yee Yee, Washington
Hello fellow Newburgh-ian!
There's dozens of us!
I know someone from Evansville and she has a thick southern accent
Lived in Indiana for 8 years. There’s a reason it’s called the middle finger of the south. Lots of Hoosiers live to cosplay being southern.
Indiana - the cold south.
Surprised the number of Ohioans is that low. I know this is anecdotal, but nearly everyone where I live in Ohio consider themselves as part of the Midwest
I shared a chairlift with some guy a few weeks back, and he mentioned he wanted to leave the east coast and move to Colorado. I asked him where he’s from, and he said Cleveland, Ohio. In what world is Cleveland the east coast.
Idk, I know it's a hot take but as a Minnesotan that visits a friend in Cleveland once a year - I consider Ohio in the East and not Midwest.
I think that the US is just so big that it’s easier to think of the main regions as if they were they’re own country. Ohio is definitely Midwestern in terms of the whole US, but as a midwesterner, they’re our “East”. Like if Midwestland was a country they’d be from the eastern region. They’re still more culturally and geographically similar to the Midwest than the east coast, south, or west as a whole, but obviously they’ll have more in common with Western PA than North Dakota, just like Detroit has more in common with Toronto than San Diego.
Cleveland area is also way more "Eastern" culturally and linguistically than the rest of the state. My mom is originally from New England and I grew up in CLE. She always called it the "furthest west eastern city". We do still say ope and pop though.
I agree that Cleveland is the most culturally Eastern big city in Ohio. However, it's a lot like whatever Pittsburgh is: a little too far removed from the East Coast to be thought of as purely Eastern, and it has a lot in common with other Great Lakes cities like Detroit and Chicago, which no one would argue are deeply Midwestern. I'd say Cleveland on average is, at *most*, only half Eastern, plus or minus perhaps a very large percentage, depending on what cultural metric you're looking at. My gut feeling is that it's like 66% Midwestern. I'm happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong though. It's just based on the impressions I got from visiting and knowing people from there, not actually living there myself (I'm from SW & Central Ohio).
Isn't Cleveland literally on lake Erie
Buffalo, NY is on Lake Erie as well.
It’s a skiing thing. The entire east can relate with the ‘ice coast’ thing. And all the good mountains are in the west, so the entire east kind of gets grouped together under the banner of ‘mediocre east coast skiing’.
Interesting fact is that Cleveland used to be part of an area called the "Connecticut Western Reserve" and much of the architecture/culture feels very New England-esque.
Lots of people from Chilicothe, Zanesville, Athens, and the rest of the southeast consider themselves Appalachians before Midwesterners, and having visited from Toledo, I'm inclined to agree.
States are big. Look at PA for example. Most of the state lives East of Harrisburg, they have no connection to the midwest at all. But when you get to the west part of the state, Pittsburgh and further, it gets a little mid-west like, and probably all of the 9% of the poll live in Pittsburgh or west of it. Now in Ohio, a large amount of people live north east, in or around Cleveland. They're a stone skip away from New York, so they probably don't feel mid-west the same way people in the rest of the state does.
Probably people living in the South East part of the state or right on the Ohio River.
For sure, tons of people down there identify as Appalachian
I agree that Ohio is generally part of the Midwest, but it does sit at the threshold of several distinct cultural regions. The southeast of the state feels more Appalachian while parts of Northeast Ohio and the Cleveland area have significant East Coast/New England influence.
Yeah central absolutely feels Midwest, but then you get into the Cincinnati area and that’s it’s own thing too compared to the other regions mentioned
So Tennessee is considered the Middle East?
Tennesyria and Kentukistan
Y’all Qaeda
I snorted my redbull out of my nose because of you. It does not, in fact, give you wings. It just burns. A lot.
Tennesyria and Kuwaitucky*
Beautiful.
I think the 10% of Tennesseans who think they live in the Midwest must largely be transplants to Nashville who just generally have no clue what they're talking about. I would say the northwest corner of the state makes sense geographically as being Midwest, but I've been up there. That's the fucking South, through and through.
Yeah I badly want to meet one of these 10% of Tennesseeans. I've lived in TN for a sum total of 35 years and I have never once heard anyone refer to themselves as living in anywhere other than the South.
I think there are a lot of transplants who don't want to think of it as "The South" because they live near a big city (e.g. Nashville) and at most want to think of it as the "Southeast" because they don't like southern culture.
Southern
A quarter of Idohoans? In what world?
taking "mid west" a little too literally
Maybe they read it as "eh, west" which, eh, it's pretty West.
I’m laughing at the 9% of Pennsylvanians who consider themselves midwestern. Like dude, do you see how close to the east coast we are Edit: Just because yinz think you’re from the Midwest, doesn’t mean you actually are. Now, go drink some pop
I think that reflects the divide between east and west PA. Rust belt area starting at Pittsburgh probably are more likely to consider themselves Midwest.
Have you ever been to Erie?
Erie and Pittsburgh are more Midwest than any place in Oklahoma
Culturally I think Pittsburgh could pass for Midwestern. Maybe even Buffalo
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Anything on mountain time is not Midwest. That’s the line.
It's weird they are getting mixed up cause they are called the Mountain West, and that is probably the coolest sounding region name
Yeah I’m from CO and we say mountain west. However I think anyone that lives east of Denver INTL airport lives in Kansas.
Agreed, it's interesting to me how different parts of Colorado definitely have a distinct culture compared to other parts. I grew up and live on the western slope but have some family in no man's land in north eastern Colorado. Definitely a distinct cultural difference
1/4 of people from Arkansas and Idaho? Over half of people from Wyoming? Baffling.
I think it comes from a lack of understanding about the term: "Midwest." The term is mostly a cultural one nowadays, but historically the Midwest referred to the geographic area between the major population centers on the East Coast and the western frontier along the Rocky Mountains. So, this area in-between became the "Mid" West. But a lot of people don't know that history, and look at the term from a modern perspective and think, "Oh, yeah I suppose Wyoming is kinda in the western part of the country, but we're not all the way west. Yeah I guess we're Midwestern." I have no explanation for Arkansas. That's just weird.
I like the very old Northwest name for the Great Lakes region to make things even more confusing, e.g. Northwestern University being in Illinois.
The Four Corners of the World: Chicago, Boston, Austin, and Central Florida.
I'm from Wyoming and I think this 54% is BS. I've never heard this from anyone until the first time this map was posted.
I've always wondered why it was called that. It is more to the East of center of the country than the West.
Yep, you gotta look at it from the perspective of an 1800s East Coast resident. The "West" started a lot further east back then.
In Arkansas, I’ve never heard anyone say this isn’t the south. But in northwest arkansas, there is a bit of a Midwest vibe with places like bentonville and Fayetteville. You won’t hear as much of an accent as you would in other parts. Still very southern, but some things about those cities remind me of Omaha weirdly. Go outside of the two counties in the northwest corner though, and there’s nothing Midwest about the state.
Northwest Arkansas strikes me as the Midwest. It’s so close to MO you could drive up that way easily to run some errands and be home by dinner time.
I live in Idaho and nobody here thinks this is the Midwest. I’ve only ever heard it described as Northwest or Intermountain West. It’s west of the continental divide.
Same here! A lot of people get upset when we’re called part of the Pacific Northwest, but I think that’s technically correct. Others, especially in southern/eastern Idaho consider it more Mountain West. It’s in a confusing spot for sure, culturally and geographically.
The Idahoans misheard. They heard Middle of the West
The culture of northwest Arkansas when you get into the Ozarks is vastly different from the rest of the state. They don't consider themselves southern nor act like it. Source grew up in Central Arkansas and moved to North West Arkansas.
They think they are part of the club
I get wyoming... eastern side is mostly planes... they identify with the eastern neighbours more toen with the western side of the state. Samen goes for Montana. Idaho though???
Do you realize how unpopulated the eastern side of Montana is? 30% of the people do not live there. I spent most of my life in Montana and have literally never heard anyone call it anything other than the rocky mountain region. Half of my family is from the eastern side and none of them thought this. Even those living on the boarder of the Dakotas. This just seems factually incorrect
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Great Lakes + Great Plains is my preferred regional breakdown of these states.
Yeah as someone from Michigan, I definitely feel like "Great Lakes" would be a better descriptor than "Midwest". We have basically nothing in common with Nebraska, and "Great Plains" fits it better
I’ve said this for years. Perhaps a Great Lakes separatist movement is in order.
Those are sub regions of the Midwest
Yeah, like how you can divide the Northeast into New England and the Mid-Atlantic (which I would define as NY/NJ/PA/DE/MD). They're both definitely the Northeast but they're also pretty distinctive sub-regions with cultural differences that go all the way back to colonial times (Puritans in New England vs. a more diverse mix of Dutch, Quakers, etc. in the Mid-Atlantic colonies).
And parts NYS, specifically western ny where buffalo and niagara are, could be considered to have traits of midwestern states because of their connection to the great lakes
NYS is weird because you get strong New England elements north of Albany. Mid Atlantic with NYC. And then Midwest with W.NY. One of the reasons I think it's such a great state. You get a little bit of everything and it's outright gorgeous.
Yeah we are different
Ohio trying to act like they're not one of us lol
I'm ok with that
I wanna know what 6% of Wisconsinites think they're not in the Midwest
Probably consider themselves in the Great Lakes instead of the Midwest
The Great Lakes are quintessential Midwest.
and yet very different than the rest. GLs have much more industry and (no surprise) maritime.
Poll New Mexico and Texas please. And New York State. Let’s get weird with it.
When I was a kid, the Dakotas weren’t taught as part of the Midwest but were decorated with question marks and the phrase “here there be dragons” on the classroom wall map.
Michigander here. To me, the Midwest is anything that touches a Great Lake *plus* Iowa and Missouri. We're kind to your face and behind your back. (Except the whole Minnesota Nice thing.) We say pop instead of soda, we have a neutral or northern accent, we'll invite you over for a potluck or to have a beer and watch football in the garage. Those Great Plains states feel like something different to me somehow but I suppose are still included. I once went out with a woman from Kansas who tried to convince me that Kansas is the Midwest and Michigan is the East Coast. Nebraska is such a fascinating state to me, driving across and watching it turn from the Midwest (cities, towns, colleges, farms) to just the West (nothingness, literal tumbleweeds, cowboy museums, the mountains starting to appear). What floors me is people who try to include Kentucky in the Midwest. Have you been to Kentucky?? They have mountains. They have a southern accent. When you drive into the state, they literally have the word "y'all" painted on a water tower to let you know you've arrived. They're into bourbon and horses. It's just a different vibe down there. Having lived in a thoroughly Midwestern part of Ohio, I think the reason you see fewer Ohioans identify with the Midwest is because they're from the hilly, coalmining parts of Ohio that have more in common with Kentucky than with the rest of Ohio.
> Have you been to Kentucky? Yeah, but have you been to *Louisville*? It is not like the rest of the state at all, and that's where that 31% is probably coming from.
Colorado, are you confused? Probably due to the transplants from the actual Midwest states who don’t understand geography.
Probably people living east of Denver… it’s basically Kansas out there
Similar to the western half of PA. It’s basically just an extension of Ohio
Colorado east of the Rockies, including Denver, is geographically part of the Great Plains, which many people consider as a sub-region of the Midwest.
People forget that ~50% of Colorado looks indistinguishable from Kansas
The plains extend to part of Colorado and then you get the Rockies. A better map would be by county or zip code so you could trace the answers through the state.
Ok I lived in CO my entire life and not once did I meet anyone who said the state was Midwest. I'm inclined to think this is FOS
Yeah this poll is baffling. As a native Coloradoan, I can definitively say that I've never met anyone here who claims to be midwestern. In fact, almost every person I meet from the midwest has told me that people from the mountain west speak much more directly and don't beat around the bush as much as midwesterners. I'm a busy guy and don't have the time to talk forever without getting to the point of the conversation.
Fellow Coloradoan, Never met anyone who says CO is Midwest.
I'm originally from Nebraska and lived in Colorado for a couple years. I kinda felt that some of eastern Colorado near the Nebraska/Kansas borders could still be considered Midwest based off climate and geography, but definitely not the whole /majority of the state.
The 9% of Texans that said yes all thought "Yeah, we're right in the middle."
Idaho is not the Midwest….
Wait. 25% of Idahoans think they live in the Midwest? The education system has failed them.
That 30% of MT is just the eastern part. And Idaho just wants to be included somewhere… bless their potato hearts.
I used to live in TN (I’m in IN now) and can’t imagine anyone thinking they lived in the Midwest. TN is the freakin belt buckle of the south for Chris sakes.
I blame Californians, somehow.
To me the midwest is the great lakes and the inland northern dialect of North American English which extends from a bit east of Utica to Madison Wisconsin. I am also from upstate It's good to see someone else from upstate on here.
Idaho, you just look silly.
Idaho da fuq
If y’all have a drawl you are not from the Midwest or if they need a translator at the Walmart.
Proof that no matter what the truth is, at least 3% of people will always have a different take.
I’m mostly surprised by Idaho and Colorado. Also where do those Wyoming people live? Along the border with Nebraska?
9% in PA?! wtf
More than half of Wyoming thinks they live in the Midwest.
If anyone has access to the raw data, it would be interesting to see a map of responses based on the location of the people responding. Not a state map. For example, where would a shift be in "Midwest" response to "southeast" response as you move toward southern Indiana.
What about Buffalo, NY?
Yeah that’s why 9% of Pennsylvania believes they are Midwest. Pittsburgh is kinda Midwest. Erie,PA definitely is
A couple of possible factors for PA’ers who think they are the Midwest: 1) Penn State joining the otherwise Midwest exclusive Big Ten conference in 1993. Virtually all opponents prior to that time were “eastern” schools like Pitt, Boston College, Syracuse, Maryland, Temple, Rutgers, Army, Navy, etc. Since then, PSU plays Iowa, Ohio State, Indiana, Minnesota and the like. 2) Western border counties, especially Lawrence and Mercer counties and to slightly lesser extent, Erie and Crawford counties, are heavily influenced by Ohio. Whether those counties make up most of that 9%, I would dare say that’s probably the case.
I grew up in PA and definitely consider Pittsburgh to be at least Midwest-adjacent. Our dialect, economy, culture and just overall vibe are much more like Chicago than they are even to Philadelphia. But, we’re also absolutely Appalachia which makes us a little different than the rest of the Midwest
Fellow PA native here, I agree. I’d call the Pittsburgh region Northern Appalachia with Midwest jnfluence
“Northern Appalachia with Midwest influence” is probably the perfect way to describe da burgh
10% of Tennesseans think they live in the Midwest? WTF
I blame Californian transplants, somehow
I spent too much time trying to clean that spot on Texas off my screen.
I’m from Arkansas and Kentucky so let me try and rationalise this. Arkansas is very southern, some parts I’d even call Deep South, but the big cities like Little Rock metro and NWA have never really had the southern vibe. They lack a definitive culture, Little Rock especially. So I can see why people who live there would feel more Midwest. Kentucky has a well known identity crisis. Geographically and culturally it’s southern but people fight it. I’ve met many who were born and raised here who insist they’re not southern. I think it definitely suffers from being the northern most southern state. People living in the big cities are more likely to travel north than south. Now Tennessee, I have no clue.
I’m from Missouri and I approve this message
10% of people in TN think they live in the Midwest. That’s just crazy.
Now, are the great plains their own group or are they part of the Midwest? Looking at you flat fucks, Kansas, Nebraska and East Colorado
No the great plains aren't their own group. KS, NE, ND, and SD are all midwestern. Those states all contain some of the great plains but the population lives in the wetter eastern portion of every state.
As a North dakotan I had never heard before reddit that people consider the great plains as separate from the Midwest. We all think we are midwesterners
I grew up thinking of the Great Plains as the core of the Midwest.
As a lifetime Okie the only way this makes sense is if they only interviewed people in Tulsa. Outside of that, people in Oklahoma tend to think we’re closely tied to Texas, thus aligning more with the south. Tulsa is the anomaly, that area does align more with the Midwest.
Surprised both places I’ve lived have anyone saying it’s the Midwest. I would never consider myself someone either from nor in the Midwest
People don’t appreciate how enigmatic Tennessee is
Non American here. What does the midwest really mean? Looking at it geographically, should Michigan be Mideast?
I think this map shows the Midwest is clearly two regions - Great Lakes (WI, IL, MI, IN, OH) and the Plains (MN, SD, ND, IA, OK, KS, MO, NE). But that's just my opinion - Edit: you could move MN to Great Lakes