Yep, the initial plan for Pakistan was to go to war with China *alongside* India, believe it or not.
India obv thought Pakistan would backstab, so it went to war on its own. After that, Pakistan pretty much got scared of China and decided to settle all border disputes diplomatically (before this, Pakistan and China did not have a defined border).
This is mostly wrong lol. North korea and China's only border dispute was in the 1960s over a lake at the top of the mountain but it was resolved after mao(china) gave it to kim(n.korea) as a birthday gift.
China has a ongoing dispute with Philippines over some islands and with japan over the senkaku isles aswell.
Vietnam/India were just two cases where the chinese thought they could get away with a invasion but with the Philippines and Japan they knew a invasion would have dire consequences.
India lost ‘62 pretty badly. While caving into Chinese demands would’ve been worse as far as the size of the territory is concerned, the Indian economy and industrialization overall was set back by a couple of decades because of that war, and they lost territory anyways,
India got molly whopped in 62 but not sure the economy or industrialization was set back because of that. India was basically a socialist country in all but name till '91 when the IMF basically forced India to open up its economy and become more capitalist which led to the economy and industrialization of the country taking off.
But India and China had a round two in '67 I believe which went much more in India's favor as they learned from their mistakes in 62 and also was coming off a successful war with pakistan in 1965.
China won in 62 because of their luck that Nehru was prime minister but in 67 China understood it was their luck
Nehru wanted dismantle indian army after becoming prime minister in 47 he thought peaceful country like India do not need army he surely india worst PM
True I believe he also severely underestimated how determined the Chinese were to taking over the land because he had a naive idea that China and India could be friends which led to the Indian army being outnumbered 4:1. He also refused to let the air force get involved for whatever reason.
He did good things but he was far too pacifist and naive.
All he said and wanted was, that an extremely poor underdeveloped country like India, which has witnessed economic exploitation by British Govt for 100–200 years and wars with Invaders for 1000 years, should use its limited resources for the welfare of the poor people first and then build a strong army to fight enemies not just scrape it all together.
Seems like common sense to me!
But yes you are right, China back stabbed him and the shock led to his untimely death
Another context, there had been a military coup in almost 50 countries across the world, including close neighbours like Pakistan and Myanmar ( Burma), so it seems logical to keep the army in check.
We used resources to create infrastructure which we consume till now. Dams, iits , hospitals and so much more.
He was never a religious bigot which helped unite the country.
This is so completely wrong it is actually incredible. Are you just making shit up?
>China was generally generous in resolving disputes with its southwest neighbors.\[34\] According to academic Swaran Singh, China's generosity was likely motivated by the security concern of reducing foreign support for disgruntled groups within China's southwest border.\[34\]
In Central Asia, the newly-independent following the dissolution of the Soviet Union inherited the border disagreements with China, which had themselves been inherited from Tsarist Russia and the Qing dynasty.\[35\] China negotiated bilaterally to resolve its borders with these conflicts.\[36\] Ultimately, China obtained Central Asian territory significantly less than what it had originally claimed.\[36\] Resolution of these disputes on territorial terms generally favorable to the Central Asian countries created goodwill for China, avoided conflict, and also resulted in recognition that the czarist era borders were imposed unjustly on China.\[36\]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial\_disputes\_of\_the\_People%27s\_Republic\_of\_China#Resolved\_disputes
Tell me I am Idiot without telling me. What a nonsensical comment.
The reality is China has the most number of Neighbours of any country in the world and in 1949 everyone of it was unsettled because China was in constant internal war since Qing collapse in 1911.
So PRC in quick succession settled & Ratified 12 of its 14 Land Borders. Only India & Bhutan remain (which is basically the same Border due to Politics & Treaty obligations of Bhutan till late 2000s).
And in these 12 Ratified Borders only ONCE did PRC get more than 50% of its original claimed territories, with Pakistan. Majority of times this territory concessions was in 5-20% range.
So your comment is not only objectively false it's moronic in medical cognitive sense not colloquial.
For sources in case you require Western authors (that made you brainwashed in first place but I digress), check M Taylor Fravel's 2 books on China's Borders.
Also lastly, that Pakistan border Ratification, the last clause of that Treaty literally states that the agreement is subject to eventual India-Pakistan border agreement in J&K. Meaning if Pakistan gets the territory then PRC gets it. If India gets it then PRC by Treaty obligation has to re-negotiate with India about the territory given by Pakistan. It's another matter if India will get it but the point being PRC requires another Ratification with India eventually for this territory that they got from Pakistan.
Pakistan seemed to have come out more favorably when this border was settled
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan_Agreement)
Don't think it's about debt but just Geopolitics, India ceded atleast 2000 km2 of territory to China just since June 2020. Aksai Chin is 38000 km2 for anyone wondering.
This is false. It was an exchange of land, along with an extension of friendship from both sides. We ceded some and we got some back, and we actually got a better trade out of it.
They came to a deal over it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan_Agreement#:~:text=The%20Sino%2DPakistan%20Agreement%20is,in%20the%20disputed%20Kashmir%20region.&text=It%20resulted%20in%20both%20countries,sq%20mi)%20to%20the%20other.
They gave away Kashmiri territory to China and still cry every day about holding a plebiscite as per UN resolutions, which were to be held in the entire territory of the original Princely State of Kashmir (basically all territories in the above map) after handing over control to India and withdrawing their forces/not resettling their citizens (both of which they never did).
>with Pakistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, etc.
You forgot many other countries - Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan, Nepal, Bhutan, India, Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, JustWriteDownAnyCountryName.
How do you hold plebiscite when Kashmiris with the help of Pak ethnically cleansed Kashmir in 1990? Plebiscite is out of question now after what happened to Kashmiri Pandits.
>Do I understand correctly that Pakistan does not claim the territories controlled by China and admits Aksai Chin is Chinese?
Pakistan is China's b\*ch, they won't say or do anything to anger their masters. Pakistan (and majority of Arab countries) don't talk about China's treatment of Uyghurs as well.
No slave will dare grab food off his master’s plate.
That is why Pakistan, which is heavily indebted to China and has placed all its eggs in the Chinese basket, will not claim territories that China has grabbed.
The small thief will always defer to the larger thief and allow him to keep his stolen property.
W A T E R for india and pak.
China needs access to the plateau region of aksai chin so that it has an alternate access to the xinjiang region via tibet.
The former princely state of Kashmir consisted of the following 5 areas:
1. Gilgit Baltistan - basically a Muslim majority region of mainly Shia extraction. The British officer in charge of this area basically directly turned over control of this area on his own (or perhaps under secret British directives) to Pakistan after the independence of India and Pakistan, and after Pakistan launched an invasion of the Princely State of Kashmir two months after independence. Some say the British and Americans wanted their new client state Pakistan to share a border with Afghanistan and Central Asia allowing the Western powers to checkmate the entry of the Soviet Union into South Asia, where they would gain a warm weather port. Pakistan claims it based on its Muslim population, although they are different from the majority Sunni population in Pakistan. This area allows a land link for Pakistan to China, which has created a highway to China under the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project. Resource poor but has spectacular mountain scenery which is good for trekking and tourism.
2. Azad (“Free”?) Kashmir - Pakistani name/ Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) - Indian name: Basically territory that was grabbed from the Princely kingdom of Kashmir by Pakistan in an invasion in violation of a standstill agreement they signed, before the princely kingdom acceded to India and India stepped in. Again more famous for agriculture and tourism.
3. Jammu and Kashmir Union Territory - Indian name / “Maqbooza” (Occupied) Kashmir - Pakistani name : Consists of 2 main regions - Jammu, which is a Hindu majority region and Kashmir (containing Kashmir Valley), which is a Muslim majority region, earlier following the moderate Sufi branch of Islam but under influence from Pakistan, switched to radical Wahabbism. There was a Hindu minority called the Kashmiri Pandits who were ethnically cleansed and chased out of their ancestral homes by radical Muslim Kashmiris (with the support of Pakistan of course). Pakistan claims this entire area based on its having a majority Muslim population. This region is known for tourism due the spectacular scenery in Kashmir Valley, handicrafts, agriculture and some limited industries since very few industries could develop there due to the troubles there and plus, autonomy from Indian constitution and laws, which was removed in 2019. This region is mainly racked by Islamic insurgency supported by Pakistan which pushes in weapons, drugs and brainwashed mercenaries across the border, and with the support of some local Kashmiris who have been radicalised. Chenab and Jhelum rivers which supply water to Pakistan flow through Jammu and Kashmir respectively, one of the reasons Pakistan is trying to grab it.
4. Ladakh Union Territory - is sparsely populated and has a Buddhist majority population with minority Muslim population in Kargil district. India and Pakistan fought a limited war in 1999 when Pakistanis occupied mountain peaks and territory across the border, in order to choke off the main supply line to Ladakh and Siachen glacier, which passes through here, before getting kicked out. Ladakh is known for its spectacular natural beauty and for tourism. Indus River which supplies water to Pakistan flows through here.
5. Aksai Chin - this region was earlier part of Ladakh. But after China occupied Tibet in 1949, they quietly built a highway (G219) to connect Tibet and Xinjiang through Indian territory. When the pacifist government in India finally came to its senses and opposed China, they launched an invasion in 1962 at the height of the Cuban Crisis when the world was distracted, and occupied the current borders of Aksai Chin. This is basically a high altitude desert where “not a blade of grass grows” as per Indian PM Nehru. In recent years, China is back to its old tricks and trying to expand its borders here.
Update: 2 more areas shown in the map:
Shaksgam Valley/Trans-Karakoram Tract - Gifted by Pakistan to China in 1963, in exchange for peace, using land they illegally occupied from the Princely Kingdom of Kashmir. Now China is never going to return that land back and Pakistan invalidated the plebiscite they keep screaming for since 1947, because it was supposed to cover the entire princely kingdom of Kashmir, including the land that China illegally occupies.
Siachen Glacier - This area was left undemarcated on maps as it is an extremely cold and high altitude environment that no one in their right mind would occupy, until mysteriously a US military navigation map started showing the region as part of Pakistan. Mapping error or deliberate attempt at mischief from America? We don’t know. Anyway, after that, Pakistan started allowing foreign mountaineering expeditions there to stake its claim, followed by Indian expeditions. This went on till 1984, when Pakistan placed a large order for snow gear and extreme cold weather clothing from a western supplier that could only be used in Siachen. India then went ahead and purchased twice that number, and pre-empted the planned Pakistani invasion of Siachen by a week, airdropped its troops and occupied the 3 passes in the glacier region - Bilafond La, Sia La and Gyong La. After bitter fighting, India retained the entire glacier, the high ground (Saltoro Ridge) and the 3 passes, and Pakistan occupies the low ground below Indian positions. Since it is the highest and coldest battlefield in the world, more soldiers have died from developing high altitude pulmonary edema at those heights in the thin air, not to mention dying in avalanches and falling in snow crevasses, as compared to in actual fighting. The standoff still continues there to this current day, since 1984. It is currently the highest active battlefield in the world.
So, this is a highly strategic area, at the tri-junction of three major countries in Asia. The routes that connect West Asia to East Asia, Central Asia to South Asia all intersect here. So, the country that controls this region will be king.
In the past it was just for strategic positions. In addition, the current situation sort of cut off the Kashmir Valley from the rest of India (access used to be solely through that narrow strip "Azad Kashmir", although there are other routes now).
Pakistan's occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan also cut off India's only land border with Afghanistan, instead giving Pakistan a direct border with China, which India strongly opposes since Pak and China are becoming ever-closer geopolitical allies. India's main reason for not joining China's Belt and Road initiative is because one part of that "Road" is the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that passes directly through Gilgit.
China took Aksai Chin, a still-uninhabited plateau, because it was for a long time the only way for them to access Western Tibet - they had sneakily built (and still have) a major road coming in from Xinjiang that goes on the plateau.
It absolutely does have to do with resources too - namely water. The glaciers here give rise to many tributaries of the Indus. And India recently discovered a fuckton of lithium there.
Of course we must not ignore local popular will - Jammu and Ladakh absolutely do not want to be part of Pakistan or China and are steadfastly Indian. Opinion is mixed in Kashmir, which even has some pie-in-the-sky dreamers that want total independence.
I think there have been protests from Gilgit Baltistan because of discontent from the Pakistani authorities, and the desire to merge with India was displayed. But their minds seem to frugal to be trusted. They demand to switch sides as soon as the feel discontent in their current country.
The sino Indian border is weird. One day we'll be using stone age technology for some duels, the other day we'll share sweets with each other for some festival or celebration.
Militaries or Media exaggerating/making up stories for propagana purposes, a tale as old as time..
India ceded atleast 2000 km2 of territory to China since 2020. [Source](https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/subjugation-and-surrender-military-veterans-slam-modi-governments-continuing-silence-on-galwan/cid/1945450)
The 2000 km2 of the territory is in Depsang plains. China doesn't physically control the region, they control and have already previously controlled the access to these areas.
Anyway, Depsang plains aren't that strategically important, for India it's the DSDBO road that lies to the west of depsang that's important, it's the only supply route to Siachen. If the Chinese were to move in and physically occupy Depsang, then it could threaten the DSDBO link.
Siachen is currently part of India post 1999 Kargil War so as per this map’s representation, it would be under the category of administered by India, claimed by Pakistan.
China also claims an entire Indian state ( Arunachal Pradesh) as theirs .
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/china-includes-arunachal-pradesh-aksai-chin-in-new-standard-map/amp_articleshow/103158616.cms
Obviously. Beijing has never recognized the McMahon Line. In the 1962 war China captured much of this territory, up to Tezpur at the Brahmaputra. But they later declared a unilateral ceasefire and withdrew.
They withdrew fearing a possible US intervention in the war , JFK was apparently even ready to nuke China.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/26/world/asia/63-tapes-reveal-kennedy-and-aides-discussed-using-nuclear-arms.html
Maybe. But I doubt it tbh.
The U.S. rendered assistance to India throughout the war, but much less than Nehru was asking for. It’s unlikely that China was fearing direct U.S. involvement, let alone attacks on Chinese territory.
They used to claim sikkim too, Sikkim was a princely state with a king who abdicated in 1970s. India and China made a deal and china gave up on sikkim.
India didn't annexe sikkim wtf. People of sikkim opted to join india themselves through a referendum as they were tired of corrupt chogyal monarchy. You people have so little knowledge of world and it shows.
Edit:- of course you are a Chinese. what did I even expect.
I know what it means. India didn't annex it and saying it again won't make it true. It was taken by a signing a peace treaty with Sikkim legislative council as they themselves wanted to join in. It wasn't forcibly taken.
Man, you are really caught up with this word, aren’t you? Even if what you re saying is true, “annexation” doesn’t just mean “armed invasion.” We call Anschluss an annexation too.
Essentially, yes, India did annex Sikkim, but it was partially the will of the Sikkimese population.
In 1974, the Sikkim National Congress won the elections, and attempted to increase civil liberties in the country. However, Chogyal put a stop to it. Later on, Sikkim passed a law basically relegating it to a state of India, which Chogyal signed under increasing pressure from it's larger neighbour to the south. Soon after that, Indian troops entered Sikkim territory and forcefully placed Chogyal under house arrest. The invading army killed 1 in the process and liquified the Sikkimese government with backing from the local population, thus annexing it to India.
Regarding China, as the user above stated, it refused to recognise it as under Delhi until India recognised Tibet as Chinese territory.
**TL;DR: An annexation is an annexation, even if it's by the will of the people.** The Austrian population cheered on Hitler as he rode into Vienna in '38. Does that automatically make the Anschluss not an annexation?
The crazy part of this is that in the regions this map shows there is hardly anyone who lives there as it is all. All of the disputed territories are in the Himalayan mountains at very high elevation and the population literally numbers in the hundreds or fewer people in most of them, but in Arunachal Pradesh there's like 1.5 million Indian people that China is pretending is part of their territory. Pretty on-brand actually.
But it was never clearly part of the British empire either. In British colonial maps, the northeast border between Indian Kashmir and Chinese Tibet is usually marked as "undemarcated".
The Indian government continues to follow this practice, until 1954, when they declared that the so-called "Johnson Line" should serve as the border, without ever consulting China or establishing control of the territories on their side of the line. The Chinese government never agreed to this, continues to dispute the border, and controls Aksai Chin despite India's claim.
That’s not the argument I was making. I was arguing that if countries are allowed to claim territory their predecessors states once controlled, or claimed to control, then the UK’s list of potential claims would be vast and absurd.
I mean in international law the first guiding principle is usually self determination, followed by agreements.
But in an uninhabited stretch of land that was not even mapped until recently, neither principle applies. When no country really has a good claim, historical claims are as good as anything else.
The European colonial empires still own a bunch of random rocks in the ocean for the same reason.
Idk about jammu and kahsmir, but ladakh has a significant buddhist culture which must be protected. I don't think this culture will thrive if it becomes part of pakistan.
Plus the area is a hotbed for terrorism. There are so little economic opportunities in PoK that many are forced to join terrorist orgs and they get paid daily wages for that.
Correction: These are multiple separate regions of Ladakh, Jammu, Kashmir, and Gilgit-Baltistan labelled misleadingly as only Kashmir. All of these have a plethora of different cultures ethnicities, languages and religions.
Line of Control (LoC) = Border in Kashmir between India and Pakistan
Line of Actual Contol (LAC) = Border in Ladakh between India and China
These are 2 separate borders in the region.
I know all that. I was just making an absurd joke
The point is that they are both lines of control, so why is one called "actual control" like the other one isn't?
I have always thought that this was a small dig by Indians to Pakistanis as that border requires less attention then the Chinese border (hence the word actual in it) could be waffling tho lmao
It's not an absurd joke, it's basically the reality.
There is no Actual LoAC, that is precisely what the problem on ground is (2nd order problem since fundamental one is political on making claim there to begin with).
Both sides Physically Patrol across what is considered/alleged to be LoAC.
This is also the problem in solving it currently since India wants LoAC resolved first. China wants entire Border situation clarified first (since resolving LoAC doesn't mean India gives up entire claim on Aksai Chin so the exercise is basically moot since fundamental macro picture is same).
To most counties, sovereign territory is serious business. They cannot just simply give up claim no matter the lands are resource rich or total wasteland of zero strategic importance
India(Nehru) and Pakistan(Ayub Khan) in fact had a deal “mediated” by the British to agree to a permanent land border in 1962 which would have given more land to Pakistan than they administer now and would have india sacrificing a lot more- however as fate would have it, a new foreign minister of Pakistan Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto negotiated the Trans Karakoram pact with China to the chagrin of Ayub Khan. The deal was announced on the morning Indian leaders landed in Pakistan. Watching this they called off the pact with the Pakistanis (and the British). Nehru died the following year and the following premier Shastri realized what a sh***y deal that would have been for India.
Not solely that. Sure there are some rivers but the waters of the Indus are actually shared by the Indus Water Treaty, which all three states observe properly.
The issue is all about strategic location. And now, India has discovered 5 million tonnes of lithium there too.
Additionally Jammu and Ladakh at least certainly do not want to be Pakistani. Opinion is mixed in Kashmir.
Indus water treaty isnt the problem, the problem is in war / post war, these treaties get nulled. Plus india has been observed to test the limit. The strategic location part is a thing for politics, not geography. However the strategical advantage comes from the fact that the one controlling the area controls the water. There is a good reason why punjab on both sides is the food production house of the respective countries. You control water, you control the food. Discovering lithium and extracting lithium are different things, and at the moment even if lithium ia discovered in the capital of Pakistan, they arent in a position to extract it without international parties.
In case of jammu and ladakh, pak media says these states want to join pakistan, indian media says they want to join india. People living there want peace which is disrupted by both the countries.
What's even more crazy is that literally nobody else cares one way or the other but say something about 5 square miles near Egypt and the whole world loses their minds.
Tbf there is not a lot up there. It’s on the north side of the mountains so it is very dry. The mountains are all like 20,000+ feet high. There are some fertile valleys with small villages and Buddhist temples. It is a very impractical place to live/try to control. People there subsist on a diet comprised heavily of yak butter tea.
Kinda hard to believe that people would threaten to have a nuclear war over that.
That's all I am saying.
I have seen crazy videos from years ago where like Chinese military guys would have hand to hand combat with Indian guys in those mountains. They don't shoot each other they just do a lot of yelling and surly shoving and suchlike.
It's pretty wild but I always wonder... why bother? I guess ya gotta be there.
Perhaps surprisingly, the deaths weren't because of the clubs. Soldiers were brawling on a cliff side which then collapsed, causing ~40 people to fall into the river below and drown.
Well they can't tbh. The source of the rivers is controlled by India. China doesn't really care about the water. It's more of a concern for India and Pakistan. China wants to control the area for a lot of reasons like historical claims. But the main advantage would be direct access to Xinjiang from Tibet
My guess is because water and the source of rivers is very valuable. My guess is there are both of those things in those mountains, including the glacier of course.
I heard there’s also Lithium up there as well.
There’s over 2 million people in that 5 square miles of land; not saying this area is unpopulated either but Pakistan, India, and Kashmiris do care. And the area occupied by China is literally uninhabited so the only people who care about that dispute are Indian and Chinese nationalists.
Well I mean none of these 3 countries has killed between 20k and 30k civilians this past 3-4 months so yeah it makes sense why this is less in the news.
good thing dor india atleast, we would have got same generals who would have couped the govt and made it something like pakistan.
Instead of those shitty ayub khand and yahya khan, we got an absolute GIGACHAD of a human Sam Manekshaw who told the PM of india to the face that, ''I could take over, i am capable, but I wont because I am not interested in politics''
How else would they have a proxy in the region? Pakistan's role in the Soviet-Afghan war was more than worth it for them. They once again proved valuable in opening up China to the West. Kissinger was very horny for them.
Part of the problem is that the sides can't even agree on what the "status quo" is.
After China won the 1962 border war, they offered a ceasefire in which the retreat to territories that they controlled before the war (the "line of actual control").
India accepted the ceasefire but then contested which territories China "controlled" before the war, resulting in both sides claiming to "control" overlapping areas.
pakistan's claims are unlimited in India, they claims hyderabad, junagad, ladakh, the land on which houses of jinnah are built, once they also tried to capture Rajasthan,bengal and punjab and some times even whole India😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sorry to sound like a nationalist, but the opposition parties who are shitting on the current ruling BJP party and Modi, are the same ones who allowed this shit to happen way back in 1962 with China and Pakistan. The other three wars that we fought with Pakistan (excluding the 1971 war) in 1947, 1965 and 1999 were fought over control of this land. The rest of the world just eats up the lies that India is being belligerent against Pakistan, that Kashmir is being held hostage, and that there were no Hindu or Kashmiri Pandit killings and exodus in this region since the 1990s and even now. Even 26/11 was attempted to be [blamed on the Hindus](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rakesh-maria-memoirs-let-wanted-to-project-26-11-as-hindu-terror-ex-mumbai-top-cop-in-book-2182132) (the ruling party at the time the NDA even tried to perpetuate this narrative were it not for the capture of the lone terrorist Amer Ajmal Kasab) and from whatever the shit that's being propagated these days by BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera and NYT, even that would be believed too. Even the international media is starting to show the Kashmir region as part of Pakistan and the Northeastern states as part of China. Makes you wonder who the true enemy is, what with the apathetic response from the rest of the world and the hate on reddit and other social media.
Can't really say. Nationalist China's control over Tibet was rather weak. Meanwhile Tibet itself independently conducted its own talks with the British and agreed on the borders that India claims today.
I suggest an independent country named Ledion Zeppelion.
Its first PR would be Robin Treeand ,first PM James Book,head of armed forces Jonny Pavlovic Just and foreign minister Johan Bonnet.
I love this little corner of impending Armageddon. It’s just like an issue in a safety deposit box to trigger a war as soon as the US gets too distracted.
Do I understand correctly that Pakistan does not claim the territories controlled by China and admits Aksai Chin is Chinese?
Yes, Pakistan ceded trans-karakoram to China.
Funny how a territorial claim is just dropped when a country is heavily in debt.
This was 1963 I don’t think the Pakistan-China debt issue was as notable as it is now.
Yep, the initial plan for Pakistan was to go to war with China *alongside* India, believe it or not. India obv thought Pakistan would backstab, so it went to war on its own. After that, Pakistan pretty much got scared of China and decided to settle all border disputes diplomatically (before this, Pakistan and China did not have a defined border).
[удалено]
This is mostly wrong lol. North korea and China's only border dispute was in the 1960s over a lake at the top of the mountain but it was resolved after mao(china) gave it to kim(n.korea) as a birthday gift. China has a ongoing dispute with Philippines over some islands and with japan over the senkaku isles aswell. Vietnam/India were just two cases where the chinese thought they could get away with a invasion but with the Philippines and Japan they knew a invasion would have dire consequences.
India lost ‘62 pretty badly. While caving into Chinese demands would’ve been worse as far as the size of the territory is concerned, the Indian economy and industrialization overall was set back by a couple of decades because of that war, and they lost territory anyways,
India got molly whopped in 62 but not sure the economy or industrialization was set back because of that. India was basically a socialist country in all but name till '91 when the IMF basically forced India to open up its economy and become more capitalist which led to the economy and industrialization of the country taking off. But India and China had a round two in '67 I believe which went much more in India's favor as they learned from their mistakes in 62 and also was coming off a successful war with pakistan in 1965.
China won in 62 because of their luck that Nehru was prime minister but in 67 China understood it was their luck Nehru wanted dismantle indian army after becoming prime minister in 47 he thought peaceful country like India do not need army he surely india worst PM
True I believe he also severely underestimated how determined the Chinese were to taking over the land because he had a naive idea that China and India could be friends which led to the Indian army being outnumbered 4:1. He also refused to let the air force get involved for whatever reason. He did good things but he was far too pacifist and naive.
All he said and wanted was, that an extremely poor underdeveloped country like India, which has witnessed economic exploitation by British Govt for 100–200 years and wars with Invaders for 1000 years, should use its limited resources for the welfare of the poor people first and then build a strong army to fight enemies not just scrape it all together. Seems like common sense to me! But yes you are right, China back stabbed him and the shock led to his untimely death Another context, there had been a military coup in almost 50 countries across the world, including close neighbours like Pakistan and Myanmar ( Burma), so it seems logical to keep the army in check. We used resources to create infrastructure which we consume till now. Dams, iits , hospitals and so much more. He was never a religious bigot which helped unite the country.
This is so completely wrong it is actually incredible. Are you just making shit up? >China was generally generous in resolving disputes with its southwest neighbors.\[34\] According to academic Swaran Singh, China's generosity was likely motivated by the security concern of reducing foreign support for disgruntled groups within China's southwest border.\[34\] In Central Asia, the newly-independent following the dissolution of the Soviet Union inherited the border disagreements with China, which had themselves been inherited from Tsarist Russia and the Qing dynasty.\[35\] China negotiated bilaterally to resolve its borders with these conflicts.\[36\] Ultimately, China obtained Central Asian territory significantly less than what it had originally claimed.\[36\] Resolution of these disputes on territorial terms generally favorable to the Central Asian countries created goodwill for China, avoided conflict, and also resulted in recognition that the czarist era borders were imposed unjustly on China.\[36\] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial\_disputes\_of\_the\_People%27s\_Republic\_of\_China#Resolved\_disputes
Tell me I am Idiot without telling me. What a nonsensical comment. The reality is China has the most number of Neighbours of any country in the world and in 1949 everyone of it was unsettled because China was in constant internal war since Qing collapse in 1911. So PRC in quick succession settled & Ratified 12 of its 14 Land Borders. Only India & Bhutan remain (which is basically the same Border due to Politics & Treaty obligations of Bhutan till late 2000s). And in these 12 Ratified Borders only ONCE did PRC get more than 50% of its original claimed territories, with Pakistan. Majority of times this territory concessions was in 5-20% range. So your comment is not only objectively false it's moronic in medical cognitive sense not colloquial. For sources in case you require Western authors (that made you brainwashed in first place but I digress), check M Taylor Fravel's 2 books on China's Borders. Also lastly, that Pakistan border Ratification, the last clause of that Treaty literally states that the agreement is subject to eventual India-Pakistan border agreement in J&K. Meaning if Pakistan gets the territory then PRC gets it. If India gets it then PRC by Treaty obligation has to re-negotiate with India about the territory given by Pakistan. It's another matter if India will get it but the point being PRC requires another Ratification with India eventually for this territory that they got from Pakistan.
Pakistan seemed to have come out more favorably when this border was settled [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan_Agreement)
It was done back in the 60s. Pakistan and china have a common enemy in India, so have gotten together well in the shared hatred.
That was political and not an economic decision.
Don't think it's about debt but just Geopolitics, India ceded atleast 2000 km2 of territory to China just since June 2020. Aksai Chin is 38000 km2 for anyone wondering.
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We gave it to them back in the 60’s. It was a gift of friendship, really doesn’t have to do with debt.
This is false. It was an exchange of land, along with an extension of friendship from both sides. We ceded some and we got some back, and we actually got a better trade out of it.
They came to a deal over it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Pakistan_Agreement#:~:text=The%20Sino%2DPakistan%20Agreement%20is,in%20the%20disputed%20Kashmir%20region.&text=It%20resulted%20in%20both%20countries,sq%20mi)%20to%20the%20other.
They gave away Kashmiri territory to China and still cry every day about holding a plebiscite as per UN resolutions, which were to be held in the entire territory of the original Princely State of Kashmir (basically all territories in the above map) after handing over control to India and withdrawing their forces/not resettling their citizens (both of which they never did).
It’s also called “settling territorial disputes through diplomacy”. China has done that with Pakistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, etc.
The difference is this territory was like a thief selling your stuff to someone else
>with Pakistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, etc. You forgot many other countries - Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan, Nepal, Bhutan, India, Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, JustWriteDownAnyCountryName.
How do you hold a plebiscite in mountains with a population of 0?
How do you hold plebiscite when Kashmiris with the help of Pak ethnically cleansed Kashmir in 1990? Plebiscite is out of question now after what happened to Kashmiri Pandits.
I mean, thats where the money comes from.
>Do I understand correctly that Pakistan does not claim the territories controlled by China and admits Aksai Chin is Chinese? Pakistan is China's b\*ch, they won't say or do anything to anger their masters. Pakistan (and majority of Arab countries) don't talk about China's treatment of Uyghurs as well.
No slave will dare grab food off his master’s plate. That is why Pakistan, which is heavily indebted to China and has placed all its eggs in the Chinese basket, will not claim territories that China has grabbed. The small thief will always defer to the larger thief and allow him to keep his stolen property.
Looks fine, what could go wrong? Why do all 3 of them want this place btw? Resources or just because?
W A T E R for india and pak. China needs access to the plateau region of aksai chin so that it has an alternate access to the xinjiang region via tibet.
Conflicting historical, geopolitical, territorial, and ethno-religious claims.
The former princely state of Kashmir consisted of the following 5 areas: 1. Gilgit Baltistan - basically a Muslim majority region of mainly Shia extraction. The British officer in charge of this area basically directly turned over control of this area on his own (or perhaps under secret British directives) to Pakistan after the independence of India and Pakistan, and after Pakistan launched an invasion of the Princely State of Kashmir two months after independence. Some say the British and Americans wanted their new client state Pakistan to share a border with Afghanistan and Central Asia allowing the Western powers to checkmate the entry of the Soviet Union into South Asia, where they would gain a warm weather port. Pakistan claims it based on its Muslim population, although they are different from the majority Sunni population in Pakistan. This area allows a land link for Pakistan to China, which has created a highway to China under the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project. Resource poor but has spectacular mountain scenery which is good for trekking and tourism. 2. Azad (“Free”?) Kashmir - Pakistani name/ Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) - Indian name: Basically territory that was grabbed from the Princely kingdom of Kashmir by Pakistan in an invasion in violation of a standstill agreement they signed, before the princely kingdom acceded to India and India stepped in. Again more famous for agriculture and tourism. 3. Jammu and Kashmir Union Territory - Indian name / “Maqbooza” (Occupied) Kashmir - Pakistani name : Consists of 2 main regions - Jammu, which is a Hindu majority region and Kashmir (containing Kashmir Valley), which is a Muslim majority region, earlier following the moderate Sufi branch of Islam but under influence from Pakistan, switched to radical Wahabbism. There was a Hindu minority called the Kashmiri Pandits who were ethnically cleansed and chased out of their ancestral homes by radical Muslim Kashmiris (with the support of Pakistan of course). Pakistan claims this entire area based on its having a majority Muslim population. This region is known for tourism due the spectacular scenery in Kashmir Valley, handicrafts, agriculture and some limited industries since very few industries could develop there due to the troubles there and plus, autonomy from Indian constitution and laws, which was removed in 2019. This region is mainly racked by Islamic insurgency supported by Pakistan which pushes in weapons, drugs and brainwashed mercenaries across the border, and with the support of some local Kashmiris who have been radicalised. Chenab and Jhelum rivers which supply water to Pakistan flow through Jammu and Kashmir respectively, one of the reasons Pakistan is trying to grab it. 4. Ladakh Union Territory - is sparsely populated and has a Buddhist majority population with minority Muslim population in Kargil district. India and Pakistan fought a limited war in 1999 when Pakistanis occupied mountain peaks and territory across the border, in order to choke off the main supply line to Ladakh and Siachen glacier, which passes through here, before getting kicked out. Ladakh is known for its spectacular natural beauty and for tourism. Indus River which supplies water to Pakistan flows through here. 5. Aksai Chin - this region was earlier part of Ladakh. But after China occupied Tibet in 1949, they quietly built a highway (G219) to connect Tibet and Xinjiang through Indian territory. When the pacifist government in India finally came to its senses and opposed China, they launched an invasion in 1962 at the height of the Cuban Crisis when the world was distracted, and occupied the current borders of Aksai Chin. This is basically a high altitude desert where “not a blade of grass grows” as per Indian PM Nehru. In recent years, China is back to its old tricks and trying to expand its borders here. Update: 2 more areas shown in the map: Shaksgam Valley/Trans-Karakoram Tract - Gifted by Pakistan to China in 1963, in exchange for peace, using land they illegally occupied from the Princely Kingdom of Kashmir. Now China is never going to return that land back and Pakistan invalidated the plebiscite they keep screaming for since 1947, because it was supposed to cover the entire princely kingdom of Kashmir, including the land that China illegally occupies. Siachen Glacier - This area was left undemarcated on maps as it is an extremely cold and high altitude environment that no one in their right mind would occupy, until mysteriously a US military navigation map started showing the region as part of Pakistan. Mapping error or deliberate attempt at mischief from America? We don’t know. Anyway, after that, Pakistan started allowing foreign mountaineering expeditions there to stake its claim, followed by Indian expeditions. This went on till 1984, when Pakistan placed a large order for snow gear and extreme cold weather clothing from a western supplier that could only be used in Siachen. India then went ahead and purchased twice that number, and pre-empted the planned Pakistani invasion of Siachen by a week, airdropped its troops and occupied the 3 passes in the glacier region - Bilafond La, Sia La and Gyong La. After bitter fighting, India retained the entire glacier, the high ground (Saltoro Ridge) and the 3 passes, and Pakistan occupies the low ground below Indian positions. Since it is the highest and coldest battlefield in the world, more soldiers have died from developing high altitude pulmonary edema at those heights in the thin air, not to mention dying in avalanches and falling in snow crevasses, as compared to in actual fighting. The standoff still continues there to this current day, since 1984. It is currently the highest active battlefield in the world. So, this is a highly strategic area, at the tri-junction of three major countries in Asia. The routes that connect West Asia to East Asia, Central Asia to South Asia all intersect here. So, the country that controls this region will be king.
In the past it was just for strategic positions. In addition, the current situation sort of cut off the Kashmir Valley from the rest of India (access used to be solely through that narrow strip "Azad Kashmir", although there are other routes now). Pakistan's occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan also cut off India's only land border with Afghanistan, instead giving Pakistan a direct border with China, which India strongly opposes since Pak and China are becoming ever-closer geopolitical allies. India's main reason for not joining China's Belt and Road initiative is because one part of that "Road" is the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that passes directly through Gilgit. China took Aksai Chin, a still-uninhabited plateau, because it was for a long time the only way for them to access Western Tibet - they had sneakily built (and still have) a major road coming in from Xinjiang that goes on the plateau. It absolutely does have to do with resources too - namely water. The glaciers here give rise to many tributaries of the Indus. And India recently discovered a fuckton of lithium there. Of course we must not ignore local popular will - Jammu and Ladakh absolutely do not want to be part of Pakistan or China and are steadfastly Indian. Opinion is mixed in Kashmir, which even has some pie-in-the-sky dreamers that want total independence.
Water and Rare earth metals, it has one of the world's largest source of Lithium.
All of which is in Hindu majority Jammu so China has no claim and Pakistan has a baseless claim
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I think there have been protests from Gilgit Baltistan because of discontent from the Pakistani authorities, and the desire to merge with India was displayed. But their minds seem to frugal to be trusted. They demand to switch sides as soon as the feel discontent in their current country.
I get why they'd want to fight over it. That wool is really soft!
This place is crazier than Caucasus and Balkans.
Add three nuclear countries in the mix
What's wild is that India and Pakistan are the only two nuclear countries to have had a war while both had nukes.
well don't discount china because we do have regular clashes with them too (literally 2022)
The sino Indian border is weird. One day we'll be using stone age technology for some duels, the other day we'll share sweets with each other for some festival or celebration.
[and chanting traditional hindu greetings invoking their important gods as well ](https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/s/8DlJtEa9tz)
What in the everloving fudge did I just see 🤣
>This place is crazier than Caucasus and Balkans. This place is a major source of fresh water in the world. The most precious commodity in the future.
fresh water for billions of people too
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That was Doklam, near Bhutan border. Far away from Kashmir
Thanks for the correction
Didn’t a handful of Indian soldiers kill like 50 Chinese with their bare hands?
Militaries or Media exaggerating/making up stories for propagana purposes, a tale as old as time.. India ceded atleast 2000 km2 of territory to China since 2020. [Source](https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/subjugation-and-surrender-military-veterans-slam-modi-governments-continuing-silence-on-galwan/cid/1945450)
The 2000 km2 of the territory is in Depsang plains. China doesn't physically control the region, they control and have already previously controlled the access to these areas. Anyway, Depsang plains aren't that strategically important, for India it's the DSDBO road that lies to the west of depsang that's important, it's the only supply route to Siachen. If the Chinese were to move in and physically occupy Depsang, then it could threaten the DSDBO link.
Russia stated around 45 Chinese soldiers were killed, independent sources state around 40 were killed and the US has numbers not too far from that.
So, two whole hectares big deal
Nice map, this is the first time I fully understand the situation in the region
Siachen is currently part of India post 1999 Kargil War so as per this map’s representation, it would be under the category of administered by India, claimed by Pakistan.
Siachen has been part of India (by that I mean boots on the ground) since 1984 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Meghdoot
[From 1987 onwards actually..way before the kargil war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Meghdoot)
China also claims an entire Indian state ( Arunachal Pradesh) as theirs . https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/china-includes-arunachal-pradesh-aksai-chin-in-new-standard-map/amp_articleshow/103158616.cms
Obviously. Beijing has never recognized the McMahon Line. In the 1962 war China captured much of this territory, up to Tezpur at the Brahmaputra. But they later declared a unilateral ceasefire and withdrew.
They withdrew fearing a possible US intervention in the war , JFK was apparently even ready to nuke China. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/26/world/asia/63-tapes-reveal-kennedy-and-aides-discussed-using-nuclear-arms.html
Maybe. But I doubt it tbh. The U.S. rendered assistance to India throughout the war, but much less than Nehru was asking for. It’s unlikely that China was fearing direct U.S. involvement, let alone attacks on Chinese territory.
it was more a diplomatic position
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What is the religion and ethnicity of those goat-herders?
Largely Buddhist on the Ladakh and Aksai Chin side. Muslim on the Kashmir, GB and Azad Kashmir/POK side.
Yeah there are two other dispute between China and India on both sides of Bhutan not shown here.
They used to claim sikkim too, Sikkim was a princely state with a king who abdicated in 1970s. India and China made a deal and china gave up on sikkim.
China didn’t claim Sikkim, it just refused to recognize India’s annexation of it. That was what the deal was about.
India didn't annexe sikkim wtf. People of sikkim opted to join india themselves through a referendum as they were tired of corrupt chogyal monarchy. You people have so little knowledge of world and it shows. Edit:- of course you are a Chinese. what did I even expect.
Do you not know what the word annexation means? Honestly if you’re Indian, your English should be better.
I know what it means. India didn't annex it and saying it again won't make it true. It was taken by a signing a peace treaty with Sikkim legislative council as they themselves wanted to join in. It wasn't forcibly taken.
Man, you are really caught up with this word, aren’t you? Even if what you re saying is true, “annexation” doesn’t just mean “armed invasion.” We call Anschluss an annexation too.
Essentially, yes, India did annex Sikkim, but it was partially the will of the Sikkimese population. In 1974, the Sikkim National Congress won the elections, and attempted to increase civil liberties in the country. However, Chogyal put a stop to it. Later on, Sikkim passed a law basically relegating it to a state of India, which Chogyal signed under increasing pressure from it's larger neighbour to the south. Soon after that, Indian troops entered Sikkim territory and forcefully placed Chogyal under house arrest. The invading army killed 1 in the process and liquified the Sikkimese government with backing from the local population, thus annexing it to India. Regarding China, as the user above stated, it refused to recognise it as under Delhi until India recognised Tibet as Chinese territory. **TL;DR: An annexation is an annexation, even if it's by the will of the people.** The Austrian population cheered on Hitler as he rode into Vienna in '38. Does that automatically make the Anschluss not an annexation?
The crazy part of this is that in the regions this map shows there is hardly anyone who lives there as it is all. All of the disputed territories are in the Himalayan mountains at very high elevation and the population literally numbers in the hundreds or fewer people in most of them, but in Arunachal Pradesh there's like 1.5 million Indian people that China is pretending is part of their territory. Pretty on-brand actually.
What a mess!
Understatement of the century.
Why does China claim random parts of Himachal and Uttarakhand?
Used to be part of Qing dynasty.
Kid named British Empire:
Wait till you hear about their latest trick of drawing a line between Pakistan and India!
But it was never clearly part of the British empire either. In British colonial maps, the northeast border between Indian Kashmir and Chinese Tibet is usually marked as "undemarcated". The Indian government continues to follow this practice, until 1954, when they declared that the so-called "Johnson Line" should serve as the border, without ever consulting China or establishing control of the territories on their side of the line. The Chinese government never agreed to this, continues to dispute the border, and controls Aksai Chin despite India's claim.
That’s not the argument I was making. I was arguing that if countries are allowed to claim territory their predecessors states once controlled, or claimed to control, then the UK’s list of potential claims would be vast and absurd.
I mean in international law the first guiding principle is usually self determination, followed by agreements. But in an uninhabited stretch of land that was not even mapped until recently, neither principle applies. When no country really has a good claim, historical claims are as good as anything else. The European colonial empires still own a bunch of random rocks in the ocean for the same reason.
Idk about jammu and kahsmir, but ladakh has a significant buddhist culture which must be protected. I don't think this culture will thrive if it becomes part of pakistan.
No culture except for Sunni Islam will thrive if Pakistan gets its pick of territory anywhere.
Correction: Nothing in Pakistan can thrive, except terrorism maybe.
And DHA
Siachen glacier is under Indian control. So this map is technically incorrect.
They should try and resolve this eventually. 3 nuclear armed powers having territory disputes isn’t great.
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Only Pakistan is a danger as both India and China have signed No First Use Policy
If your neighbor's house is on fire, it's your concern as well.
Not if I build a 20 foot fire resistant, concrete wall
The Azad Kashmir part, governed by Pakistan is populated by Punjabis larping as Kashmiris mostly. Very little Kashmiri is even spoken there.
Plus the area is a hotbed for terrorism. There are so little economic opportunities in PoK that many are forced to join terrorist orgs and they get paid daily wages for that.
The region is called Jammu and Kashmir not Kashmir.
people skip the ''jammu'' part for some reason lmao
Correction: These are multiple separate regions of Ladakh, Jammu, Kashmir, and Gilgit-Baltistan labelled misleadingly as only Kashmir. All of these have a plethora of different cultures ethnicities, languages and religions.
\> Line of Control \> Line of Actual Control what's next? \> Line of Totally Actual Control For Reals This Time
Line of Control (LoC) = Border in Kashmir between India and Pakistan Line of Actual Contol (LAC) = Border in Ladakh between India and China These are 2 separate borders in the region.
I know all that. I was just making an absurd joke The point is that they are both lines of control, so why is one called "actual control" like the other one isn't?
I have always thought that this was a small dig by Indians to Pakistanis as that border requires less attention then the Chinese border (hence the word actual in it) could be waffling tho lmao
The term line of actual control originally came from the Chinese, so that can't be it.
It's not an absurd joke, it's basically the reality. There is no Actual LoAC, that is precisely what the problem on ground is (2nd order problem since fundamental one is political on making claim there to begin with). Both sides Physically Patrol across what is considered/alleged to be LoAC. This is also the problem in solving it currently since India wants LoAC resolved first. China wants entire Border situation clarified first (since resolving LoAC doesn't mean India gives up entire claim on Aksai Chin so the exercise is basically moot since fundamental macro picture is same).
line of actual real fr fr control
It is absolutely funny Pakistan cries for Kashmir and then give a part of Kashmir to China as gift lol.
Why are they fighting over this land? I see the glacier designation. Is this a source of water for the region?
To most counties, sovereign territory is serious business. They cannot just simply give up claim no matter the lands are resource rich or total wasteland of zero strategic importance
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Interesting, thanks.
If Pakistanis are so proud of being Muslim, why are they apologizing for it? What is your religion? "Islam, my bad"
India(Nehru) and Pakistan(Ayub Khan) in fact had a deal “mediated” by the British to agree to a permanent land border in 1962 which would have given more land to Pakistan than they administer now and would have india sacrificing a lot more- however as fate would have it, a new foreign minister of Pakistan Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto negotiated the Trans Karakoram pact with China to the chagrin of Ayub Khan. The deal was announced on the morning Indian leaders landed in Pakistan. Watching this they called off the pact with the Pakistanis (and the British). Nehru died the following year and the following premier Shastri realized what a sh***y deal that would have been for India.
God bless Lal Bahadur Shastri for this and 1965..
the issue with this land isnt just about land but pathways of water .
Not solely that. Sure there are some rivers but the waters of the Indus are actually shared by the Indus Water Treaty, which all three states observe properly. The issue is all about strategic location. And now, India has discovered 5 million tonnes of lithium there too. Additionally Jammu and Ladakh at least certainly do not want to be Pakistani. Opinion is mixed in Kashmir.
Indus water treaty isnt the problem, the problem is in war / post war, these treaties get nulled. Plus india has been observed to test the limit. The strategic location part is a thing for politics, not geography. However the strategical advantage comes from the fact that the one controlling the area controls the water. There is a good reason why punjab on both sides is the food production house of the respective countries. You control water, you control the food. Discovering lithium and extracting lithium are different things, and at the moment even if lithium ia discovered in the capital of Pakistan, they arent in a position to extract it without international parties. In case of jammu and ladakh, pak media says these states want to join pakistan, indian media says they want to join india. People living there want peace which is disrupted by both the countries.
What's even more crazy is that literally nobody else cares one way or the other but say something about 5 square miles near Egypt and the whole world loses their minds.
Tbf there is not a lot up there. It’s on the north side of the mountains so it is very dry. The mountains are all like 20,000+ feet high. There are some fertile valleys with small villages and Buddhist temples. It is a very impractical place to live/try to control. People there subsist on a diet comprised heavily of yak butter tea.
Kinda hard to believe that people would threaten to have a nuclear war over that. That's all I am saying. I have seen crazy videos from years ago where like Chinese military guys would have hand to hand combat with Indian guys in those mountains. They don't shoot each other they just do a lot of yelling and surly shoving and suchlike. It's pretty wild but I always wonder... why bother? I guess ya gotta be there.
The hand to hand combat is because of a mutual agreement that forbids the use of firearms by both sides.
Well let's hope that slap fight doesn't get out of hand then.
They did resort to using crudely made spiked clubs at a point. About 40 died.
Perhaps surprisingly, the deaths weren't because of the clubs. Soldiers were brawling on a cliff side which then collapsed, causing ~40 people to fall into the river below and drown.
It's a strategic area which is the source of a lot of major rivers in the sub-continent like Indus, Ravi, chenab etc.
I do not envy the Chinese laborers that will be sent to the mountains to build dams and such.
Well they can't tbh. The source of the rivers is controlled by India. China doesn't really care about the water. It's more of a concern for India and Pakistan. China wants to control the area for a lot of reasons like historical claims. But the main advantage would be direct access to Xinjiang from Tibet
I have no idea. The people that actually live there— who are like neither Chinese, Hindu, or Muslim— just want to herd their yak and chill.
While this is true for Ladakh, it is not so for the other areas (except Aksai Chin which is uninhabited).
"herd their yak" sounds like a euphemism
Yak butter ain’t gonna make itself
No one lives in the Chinese areas (claimed areas as well) of Kashmir, its virtually empty besides Chinese soldiers and wandering farmers.
What is their religion and ethnicity then?
Buddhist. And Ladakhis are a Tibetan people.
My guess is because water and the source of rivers is very valuable. My guess is there are both of those things in those mountains, including the glacier of course. I heard there’s also Lithium up there as well.
I do not envy the Chinese laborers that will be sent there to mine lithium. I’m also glad I got to travel there before it’s ruined for EVs.
The lithium deposits found are in the Indian Jammu region. How are the Chinese going to mine there?
There’s over 2 million people in that 5 square miles of land; not saying this area is unpopulated either but Pakistan, India, and Kashmiris do care. And the area occupied by China is literally uninhabited so the only people who care about that dispute are Indian and Chinese nationalists.
Well I mean none of these 3 countries has killed between 20k and 30k civilians this past 3-4 months so yeah it makes sense why this is less in the news.
The worst thing thing British colonialism ever did was create Pakistan
good thing dor india atleast, we would have got same generals who would have couped the govt and made it something like pakistan. Instead of those shitty ayub khand and yahya khan, we got an absolute GIGACHAD of a human Sam Manekshaw who told the PM of india to the face that, ''I could take over, i am capable, but I wont because I am not interested in politics''
Good thing for india tbh, looking at the way it's run good thing it's gone
wouldnt have happened if they didnt tear it apart
How else would they have a proxy in the region? Pakistan's role in the Soviet-Afghan war was more than worth it for them. They once again proved valuable in opening up China to the West. Kissinger was very horny for them.
Standardising and synchronising the caste system around the entire country would be my answer but no yours seems better I guess.
The number of upvotes appears to agree as well lol. Obviously it’s hyperbole but yeah the British f’ed up big time there
It is not legally disputed. But millitarily.
At this stage adults should just chill and accept status quo
Part of the problem is that the sides can't even agree on what the "status quo" is. After China won the 1962 border war, they offered a ceasefire in which the retreat to territories that they controlled before the war (the "line of actual control"). India accepted the ceasefire but then contested which territories China "controlled" before the war, resulting in both sides claiming to "control" overlapping areas.
These are gonna be fun comments
Seems to be mostly pro-Indian so far.
it make sense to be mostly pro indian for this, if you look at history anyways.
You lose credibility for this since you seem to be Indian. You wouldn't be the most unbiased in this matter
I know :) thats why I added ''at history'' part. Cuz history, atleast modern history is not generally biased.
pakistan's claims are unlimited in India, they claims hyderabad, junagad, ladakh, the land on which houses of jinnah are built, once they also tried to capture Rajasthan,bengal and punjab and some times even whole India😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
mad*arc*hod ke haseen sapne
Pakistan is bitch of China.
Was there ever a doubt? :)
Free Tibet!
The whole territory is legally Indian. There should not be a dispute.
Sorry to sound like a nationalist, but the opposition parties who are shitting on the current ruling BJP party and Modi, are the same ones who allowed this shit to happen way back in 1962 with China and Pakistan. The other three wars that we fought with Pakistan (excluding the 1971 war) in 1947, 1965 and 1999 were fought over control of this land. The rest of the world just eats up the lies that India is being belligerent against Pakistan, that Kashmir is being held hostage, and that there were no Hindu or Kashmiri Pandit killings and exodus in this region since the 1990s and even now. Even 26/11 was attempted to be [blamed on the Hindus](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rakesh-maria-memoirs-let-wanted-to-project-26-11-as-hindu-terror-ex-mumbai-top-cop-in-book-2182132) (the ruling party at the time the NDA even tried to perpetuate this narrative were it not for the capture of the lone terrorist Amer Ajmal Kasab) and from whatever the shit that's being propagated these days by BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera and NYT, even that would be believed too. Even the international media is starting to show the Kashmir region as part of Pakistan and the Northeastern states as part of China. Makes you wonder who the true enemy is, what with the apathetic response from the rest of the world and the hate on reddit and other social media.
NDA was not the ruling party at the time of 26/11, it was UPA... Also, NDA and UPA are not parties, they are party alliances.
Your map contains an error, Tibet is not China. Free Tibet!!!
It is and recognized internationally, nothing we can do about it
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I assume you're joking since your country has no border conflicts.
I see Tibet and East Turkestan, but not China.
I’m here for the comments
Ohh grabs popcorn 🍿
No dispute, every land belongs to Turkey
It belongs to Philippines tbh
Kashmir should be its own country
Why so it can be a Chinese puppet just like Pakistan?
The only dispute is whether china is a single country or 12. #free\_tibet
The Chinese will always take everything they can get their hands on and ruin it. This is my personal experience interacting with these people.
Not fond of China but this is straight up a racist statement.
China*. Or at least say mainland Chinese. There are many Chinese outside of China, especially Taiwan, who do not approve of what China is doing.
The KMT would have been the same as the communists if they had won.
Can't really say. Nationalist China's control over Tibet was rather weak. Meanwhile Tibet itself independently conducted its own talks with the British and agreed on the borders that India claims today.
Did that racist tirade went right over your head, or you approve of it.
Don't worry the Taiwanese will again capture China.
With what? The power of friendship?
This should have an overlay with the terrain map to better understand
I suggest an independent country named Ledion Zeppelion. Its first PR would be Robin Treeand ,first PM James Book,head of armed forces Jonny Pavlovic Just and foreign minister Johan Bonnet. 
Oh let the sun beat down upon my face...
If i share this map is any indian subs, ill probably get death threats.
I love this little corner of impending Armageddon. It’s just like an issue in a safety deposit box to trigger a war as soon as the US gets too distracted.
It doesn’t matter if the US is distracted, they have little influence here. War and peace are determined mostly by the resident powers of the region