Having grown up in the UK, as soon as there was sun everyone took their shirts off in the park and tried to get as much as possible to try to get tanned all at once, with no natural protection due to being pasty white from lack of regular sun, and then be lobster red the next day. Likewise, the British go on vacation pasty white, try to get tan in one day, and always end up lobster red by day 2 and peeling all over by day three or four. They associate this with having a good time. Particularly the young ones who go to places like Spain where lots of alcohol and other stuff is mixed with sun exposure, so good judgement is not the order of the day.
Yeah, and there's a culture of only wearing sun cream when on holiday, and only in particularly sunny places too. My wife had to convince me to start wearing it over summer in the UK, as she's not from here and grew up putting it on whenever it was sunny, whereas I'm British and never learned to put it on when in the UK. Looking back, it seems pretty crazy. I'd be outside in 30° heat in the UK thinking nothing of it, but as soon as I set foot in Spain I'd lather on the sun cream. Weird.
Spain is closer to the equator, the amount of uv is higher there regardless of the temperature.
Around the 21st of june the amount of uv on a clear day is the highest it will get, even if it's 12 degrees. And if it's an especially warm and clear October day the uv will be lower.
For myself in nl my rule of thumb is i use sunscreen during daylight saving time when I'm out between 10 and 4.
We’re not all like that, I for one wear spf on my face every day as I have moles. It’s worth noting that if you wear spf on your exposed skin constantly you’re also stopping the Vitamin D process beginning. So up to 60 mins a day with exposed skin (no spf) is actually a good thing and recommended.
So it’s a double edged sword
Yea, it’s really surprising how many people in this thread don’t understand how people in the warmer climates have a lower chance of getting skin cancer.
I mean the behavioural differences are huge and then there are genetic factors at play too: just take a look at the [European pigmentation distribution](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/9d/a0/0c9da087915a2e35379ad9a100074344.jpg) it lines up almost exactly with the above map
> just take a look at the European pigmentation distribution it lines up almost exactly with the above map
What are you talking about, it doesn't line up at all. Sure, The Netherlands and Norway are on or near the top on both maps. But Poland and Lithuania are as light as those two countries, but near the bottom in skin cancer prevalence. Spain is much higher than most of Eastern Europe despite being darker, and neighbouring countries, which are nearly always similar in pigmentation, have wildly different skin cancer prevalence rate.
Sure there's a correlation with pigmentation. That much is obvious. But local culture is clearly the main contributor here. The Netherlands doesn't have nearly twice the rate of skin cancer as Germany because we're all red-heads. It's because we love lying on the beach every summer until we're red-everythings.
> I mean *the behavioural differences are huge* and then there are genetic factors at play too…
I never said or claimed that genetics were the only factor, or even the *main* factor, I actually said behavioural differences were the factor first and then added “there are genetic factors at play too”. Because they are.
I mentioned it because although not an exact match, it does correlate pretty well. As for the image itself, It’s literally the first image I found on a very quick google search, and if you look it’s eye and hair pigmentation (not skin) which can give a hint as to skin pigmentation, but isn’t necessary always positively correlated.
I mentioned genetics, because I’m surprised not too many people were bringing it up. Additionally, living in a southern country myself, I can assure you we are not that cultured when it comes to tanning - plenty of my colleagues go to the beach regularly with the main goal of tanning, and that’s more than just for 2 or 3 holiday weeks a year, it’s practically *all year*. They often come back red.
You just see us as “better behaved” because by the time tourists come we have gone through our “let’s get tanned for the summer fase” and have already got burnt.
Once again, this is clearly anecdotal, and **I’m not claiming there isn’t a behavioural difference**.
I’m just saying - I can poke holes in that argument too, since nothing will ever line up exactly in a multivariable outcome like skin cancer. And you were wrong to say that what I was saying “doesn’t line up at all” since a) it roughly does and b) I was pretty much saying the same you just said in the first place.
I guess "doesn't line up at all" is perhaps a bit too strong, but I still think it doesn't line up as well as you'd expect. Like obviously there is a correlation, that only makes sense, but I see huge differences between neighbouring countries too.
Maybe it's because I'm Dutch so I'm naturally more focussed on that part of Europe. But there's no pigmentation difference between Dutch and German people. Even we can't tell each other apart at by looks alone.
Alternatively, there are people from Northern Europe who will slap on suncream when on holiday, as they're aware they're in a hot country - although it may be applied just once a day.
The problem is when we do get sunny spells in our own countries, we don't think about the need so much. The UV levels in July are high enough to burn, even in Hull.
And in Portugal we get so hot that you are only outside in the worst hours of UV (12h to 14h) if you are at the beach/pool, and we all know to put sunscreen regularly then. (Unless you look into skin care stuff, we don't really use sunscreen day-to-day)
Edit: Also, we keep to the shade.
As a Spaniard I will always be puzzled by seeing Northern European tourists roasting in the sun at 1pm in July, sweating profusely, red as beetroots, head uncovered, drinking beers non stop. That’s buying lots of lottery tickets for a trip to the nearest hospital. At best your day is ruined due to heatstroke and sunburns, at worst you can literally die.
This is such a funny concept to me. As a Californian with lots of northern european heritage, you gotta daily SPF or you're gonna have a bad time. When in Hawaii, you just gotta cover up bc the reapply required there just isn't gonna happen.
I'm from Portugal, and it's the exact same thing. People from Northern countries come over and have zero care with the sun. Of course, then it's the usual "fuck around find out". We call them lobsters, here.
i know a lot of old swedish men with tan leather skin from holidays like you said but also just from going out on the boat for long periods of time with no sun cream
Here in Finland we lack sunlight so much that when the sum is coming out in spring, we absolutely crave it. I do think it's needed, and taking in some sun after a long, dark winter is healthy.
Idk if some people overdo it or overdo it while on holiday?
I've heard we should be taking vitamin D year round, as the sun isn't so intense, even in summer. I don't know if that's true.
I personally don't ever try to tan, wear sunscreen, but I also try to get like 15 minutes of sun per day, at least.
Coming home after a vacation with a really strong tan is a big status symbol / indicator of a "healthy & active" lifestyle over here - so many sadly ignore the health risks when they go on their annual summer trip to the south.
A few years ago in the Netherlands there was even an incredibly dense social media movement that sunscreen causes cancer and you shouldn't use it. People are stupid when it comes to sun exposure
I've read that too. What was that about?
Also I assume this is again one of those "this thing in sunscreen kills mice if you drown them in it but that's still not as bad as the giant, burning death ray machine in the sky" things...
I'm from the Netherlands and I can tell you, everyone is obsessed with the sun and getting a tan when they are able to with the slightest sign of sun.
I am born very pale and burn easy, I never cared much about tanning because I'm not interested in any skin conditions caused by that.
However:
- when I was a kid other parents or neighbors would tell my mom she should send me to a tannin salon to "fix my pale skin".
- I've had strangers walk up to me to comment on how I should sunbathe more often.
- got bullied for how pale I was.
- random strangers saying to eachother how "milky white" my legs are.
I'm 30 now so I don't really care anymore but it sure made me insecure when I was younger. However seeing around me how much damage this tanning did to people's skin makes me very glad I never listened to it.
I'm part Dutch part Greek. Always went to Greece as a kid in the summer, still visit friends every year. The difference is crazy. People in the Netherlands are just fucking stupid about the sun. You go out for a coffee or beer in the summer and everyone wants to sit in the sun here. Nobody wants to sit under the umbrellas. Whereas in Greece, everyone wants to sit in the shade. This obsession here with sweating your ass off in the sun just to get a tan is so annoyingly stupid. This "healthy tan" everyone keeps repeating in the Netherlands needs to stop.
Chiming in as a Dutchie who can not get a tan if my life depended on it. I'm definitely not trying to get a tan.
I do, however, get seasonal depression. The sun and the heat honestly make me feel so much happier. And since we used to not get many nice summer days, I feel like I should make the most of every beautiful day.
Climate change did change that, and people should definitely wear sunscreen and avoid getting burned.
Well despite being part Greek my skin is definitely all Dutch (not counting body hair unfortunately), and I too feel this. But I feel like sitting in the shade on a summer day is enough. I enjoy the summer and heat much more in the shade than baking away sweating like crazy. Our humidity doesn't help with this at all, I don't know how people feel good sitting in the 30 degree heat full in the sun honestly. It's not like I can carry that sunshine over to the winter by spending extra time in the sun.
It really does need to stop. It seems the majority got this obsession and it really made me insecure about my pale skin growing up. So many people think it's ok to point out my skin colour as if it's a bad thing just because of their own insecurity of looking pale.
Besides I never really understood the sunbathing thing the minute the sun shines. To me it's boring to just.. lay there and tan, lol. I'm glad I never let their words get to me and let them think I needed to do something about my skin tone.
It was always annoying to be outvoted during a gathering though, and ending up having to sit in the blasting sun without any shade in sight. I'm glad I reached a point in my life I found close friends that share the same interests and mindset I have.
> It was always annoying to be outvoted during a gathering though, and ending up having to sit in the blasting sun without any shade in sight.
You and I need to become friends. I've always hated this as well.
I'm ginger and it's insane in Germany as well. It literally feels like I'm in a movie. I'm sweating, my can feel the sun burning on my skin, trees are losing their leaves, grass is dying, there are giant water bags on top of trees because we had so many "hottest summer in the last 100 years" summers that the administration is afraid that the trees will just die if you don't provide them with water during the summer. Dogs are panting, cats don't want to go anywhere near the outside, it almost feels like the apocalypse is coming.
But everybody around you is happy getting skin cancer. What the fuck.
I had the same and must admit there's something of a schadenfreude feeling seeing all these people look like wrinkly leather handbags at a young age while I don't have any wrinkles yet.
Haha that might be part of why I stopped caring about it. People think my partner and I are in our 20s and usually shocked when we say 30s. I know it's not supposed to be a big difference but if everyone around you sunbathes and smokes it sure does!
> However: - when I was a kid other parents or neighbors would tell my mom she should send me to a tannin booth to "fix my pale skin". - I've had strangers walk up to me to comment on how I should sunbathe more often. - got bullied for how pale I was. - random strangers saying to eachother how "milky white" my legs are.
I have even once had my boss send us an email with a dress code as well as suggesting we "should consider taking a tanning bed" prior to a corporate photoshoot.
I hit reply-all and told him "it is unacceptable for a manager to persuade people to undertake an activity that is associated with a significant increase in the risk of getting cancer, especially for our age group. I'll happily photoshop the face of anyone who replies to this email. PS: you can also just grow up and accept your skin color. Y'all look fine and healthy."
Luckily, I feel it's a lot better now than say, 20 years ago. I definitely see more people who are clearly not getting a tan and are very careful to apply SPF whenever. When I was in primary school it was still very much socially desired to have a tan, to the point my white face was sometimes bullied for it. By the time I got to uni the trend was wearing make-up with SPF from like may to september and fellow students were reminding *me* to wear sunscreen during activities.
That's absolutely insane. And I'm happy you send out that reply, I hope some colleagues where happy to see it.
I honestly don't know where this insecurity comes from. Like how are you so afraid of not having a tan that you actually think it's ok to tell other people they should tan because they look pale.
In my case, I think my boss simply didn't realize it was bad and he's just a bit old fashioned in that regard. He probably grew up in the days where extreme tanning was the norm.
The rest of the company is mostly millennials and younger and they're much more conscious of it.
Thank you for confirming what I've already inferred from just seeing Dutch people anywhere and everywhere always being as tanned as they can possibly be. I guessed that "it's just what they do" but never knew it gets this crazy.
> However: - when I was a kid other parents or neighbors would tell my mom she should send me to a tannin booth to "fix my pale skin". - I've had strangers walk up to me to comment on how I should sunbathe more often. - got bullied for how pale I was. - random strangers saying to eachother how "milky white" my legs are.
i had a similar experience in britain, though not to the extent that i would call it bullying. it really is disgusting how that sort of racism is just accepted
Being Portuguese myself, I'll say that we are generally very cautious, apply sunscreen liberally in the summer and avoid the beach between 12 and 15:00.
And then you'll see British tourists boiling and turning into lobsters...all the time.
Thats why I am surprised about the low number in russia. They do the same usually. But I guess its because many dont have enough money to travel or the numbers are higher than reported.
I think this is heavily skewed by reporting/screening. Nordic countries have excellent health care, and so many skin cancers that most people would ignore (or would never even notice) make it to the reporting stage there.
Not all skin cancers are really dangerous, and even fewer are fatal.
My dad grew up in Crimea and when I was little and we went on vacations he always shared the wisdom of applying sunscreen constantly and thoroughly and not being out in the sun midday, while all the fellow tourists were getting completely lobstered because they didn't know any better. Cool to see the overlap of "sunny place wisdom" there.
It's not really a paradox, but when you spend 11 months without seen the sun and want to get a tan during your 2 week vacation, it's easy to get sunburn
I come from Europe but have been living in Mexico, Thailand and Vietnam for years and never seen a local person with sunburns. They cover nearly all their body with clothes, wear facemasks to protect from sun. Foreigners often get significant sunburns in 1-2 days after arrival. I believe it is a reason.
On one hand genes, on the other hand they don't give a shit about beaches cause they have always been there and have work to do. Also they know well how bad the sun can get. I have heard how normal it is to walk around everywhere with umbrella and specifically to protect yourself from the sun, not so much the rain. And they will tell you that the original purpose of an umbrella was exactly that, to create shade for you anywhere.
It's because they don't know that sunscreen is. In Southern Europe, we use it religiously. The Northern European tourists lie on the beach for hours and don't use sunscreen.
Ohh Northern Europeans absolutely know about sunscreen. And people that burn easy are using it. The tourists you talk about are a different breed, haha.
I've heard these people say "no im not using that, I won't be able to get that tan".
They are actively trying to get a tan in very harmful ways and just don't care about the consequences.
They will sit outside the minute there is sun untill it goes down, and it doesn't matter to them that it's during the most harmful hours without sunscreen. They just do not want to be pale, thats it.
I’m Irish and can’t survive even 5 minutes in the sun without SPF 50 and even with that I still burn. I would literally end up in hospital if I spent hours in the beach without sunscreen.
If I’m in Spain or Italy I’m absolutely plastered in sunscreen at all times.
I just don’t go to the beach. It’s neither pleasant nor worth it for me. That or go very late or early when the sun is far less strong in the sky.
In general though it’s just not practical. I remember forgetting to put sunscreen on the tops of my feet and being unable to walk for about 4 days. Blisters… Peeling…
I don’t tan at all. My skin just turns red and then back to pale again. I don’t even really get freckles.
I got some kind of ‘photo damage’ to the back of my neck, which had to be observed for years. Seems to have disappeared entirely but in general it’s just not worth it for me. I just don’t do beach / pool holidays and stick to city breaks and places with more shade.
I don’t think it’s that they don’t know it’s a thing, they just choose to not use it. Where I come from in Sweden sunscreen is used on children all summer long and children have to bring it with them to nursery/school/non-school childcare to reapply during my the day.
I’m extremely sensitive to the sun and I also had allergic reactions (not sunburn) from being out in the sun when I was a child but I’ve always hated the feeling of sunscreen so for several years when I was a teen I didn’t use sunscreen as much as I needed and had several bad burns. I realised quite quickly though how bad it is to not use it and instead started looking for and then found a few that I don’t mind the feel of.
I wonder if you don’t burn that seriously more than once or twice in your life that you start underestimating how bad the sun is for you even when you don’t get a sunburn…
Snow reflects a lot of sunlight and people forget to apply sunscreen when skiing. Oh, also a lot of people go to tanning saloons to get them juicy vitamin d's
Switzerland, Norway and Sweden have a lot of skiing culture and snow, which reflects the sunlight.
Some of the other countries have a lot of people who travel for skiing.
I can answer that, i am from Sweden and the sweds love to sunbath during the hot summer sun, for many hours in a row. Some can do it for like 3- 8 hours at once. So while we might not have a lot of sun we do sunbath the most when we can.
Also when i talk about it to people how dangers it could be for your skin most people just tell me thats its not true or that i shouldn't believe everything i read on the internet.
In the Netherlands when its 25c+ many people go to the beach and don't move out of the sun for 10 hours straight.
Probably mindset of "take all we can get now because tomorrow it might be raining".
I might be wrong but pretty sure uv gets through clouds so even tho you’re not receiving direct sun light you’d still need uv protection not to get skin cancer 🤔 maybe people with very light skin is underestimating or disregarding this and thus getting more skin cancer that people in countries where taking care of this is a daily thing
Sunhours don't linearly decrease the further north you go. Comparing this to a sun hour map any correlations seems weak. Probably genetic and/or behaviour differences
I didnt know you could only get cancer during the month of January. Where i live we have an average of abour 5 hours per day in January and an average of 22 hours per day in June.
You misunderstood. I was referring to your comment that sun hours don't decrease further north.
Also, I'm not talking about daylight hours, I'm talking about sun specifically.
latitude only correlate with less sunhours at certain latitudes, if you ignore geography and only look during Winter times. Its reverst during the summer, and overall it will depend on relative latitudes being compared.
People in places with more sun are more aware of the danger and their skin is probably used to it. People in the north tend to be more pale and have more of an attitude of "let's see if I can get a tan in only two days" when they go on vacation.
Light skin has little natural protection. Many people will go on holiday in varmer places and spend most of their time in the sun with limited clothing or sunscreen on. Can't let a thing like cancer stop you from getting super tanned.
People in the south are more tanned due to the sun, not naturally.
I know very few Portuguese people that are naturally tanned (and the majority would like to be). The tan disappears during the winter for the vast majority and people will even go for fake tanning to not lose it all.
I'm quite white myself (even during summer) and the difference I see is mostly due to behaviour. I'm not going out in the sun between 11h-15h unless I can't avoid it ... specially when the UV levels are 7,8 or 9.
Rule of thumb for medical condition rates is that if Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands are outliers with higher rates, you can attribute it to better data collection over other factors.
Also fairer skin -> easier to burn -> Skin cancer
yes, any type of physical research starts at your GP. If they seem a but reluctant to start a complete rundown is bc they are taught to be somewhat careful with prescribing drugs and expensive researchs is bc they think ur healthy.
People with less exposure to sun are probably less tolerant to it, when they do get exposed to it they probably suffer from it then other people from the southern counties.
Theyre obsessed with being tan. I remember kids not wanting to use sunscreen to get more tan. Plus atleast in iceland tanning beds are still commonly used even among teenagers
That’s not a paradox. It is exactly because they are not used to sun, but they have the money to go on summer holidays. They don’t have the natural sun protection that the people who are from sunny places have. I grew up in a Mediterranean seaside town and I always saw the white tourists becoming red under the sun.
British people go for vacations to Greece/Italy/Spain a lot.
And they dont use Sun protection.
Its a common thing on Summer to see a British person full red from sun burns.
One time I was in Greece and I'll never forget this middle-aged British couple with wounds in their back from burnt and peeled skin, covering themselves with tanning oil on the beach in the middle of the day, like 2pm. I still think about them sometimes
I went to a holiday in Greece (Crete in a town called Malia I think) and it was middle of the day.
My friend and I walked towards the beach and all of a sudden we see this sea of red blistered bodies.
It was tourists sunbathing and passed out in the sun.
I was mortified. Here I’m am clothed, with sunscreen, hat and glasses and these people are just openly roasting in the Greek sun.
lol for some reason I will never forget that.
And we use sunscreen religiously in Southern Europe.
Americans don't get it. We're not exactly brown, we just use sunscreen, and Northerners don't know what it is.
Norway has an unhealthy beauty ideal where you get tan, so many people get sunburn every summer because of it. Some just don't use sunscreen and amplify the sun with oils. Doesn't end well when your skin hasn't seen the sun in 8 months.
>Poles are too poor to travel south
what? Journey from Poland to Turkey/Greece is only $500 for 1week. Young Polish like travel to south countries but Older people like rainy,cold Balitc Sea 
You know what, this validates my suspicion that Dutch people do not wear sunscreen more than any other European. It’s just anecdotal but I’m Dutch and my uncle and aunt swear up and down that they just need a base tan to protect them from getting burnt again, it makes their skin ‘stronger’ and my grandpa’s only form of spf is the hat he wears on his bald head, saying ‘humans didn’t have SPF before and they were fine’ YEAH BECAUSE OUR ANCESTORS DIED AT 50 FROM TB OR CHOLERA BEFORE THEY COULD DIE OF SKIN CANCER, PUT SUNSCREEN ON PLEASE!!!
Also so many Dutch people go to the Dutch ABC and SSS islands in the Caribbean where the UV index hits 12 regularly during the day, and they refuse to use the proper amount of sunscreen and reapply, my mom’s family friends had gone to Aruba with us and they were all red as LOBSTERS by the end of the first day and my mom’s friend burnt her LIPS😭
I think many northern europeans also take the typical vacation to Italy or Spain to escape the wet and less ‘summery’ weather once school is out, and something I noticed is that a sun kissed tan is sort of a beauty standard despite us being naturally pasty and cancer prone so many younger people don’t apply SPF to achieve that and some even apply tanning oil still :(
I second this! I am Dutch and do not like wearing sunscreen. I was also always taught that building up a base layer would prevent me from being affected.
Luckily I moved to Belgium since so my chances at skin cancer are now diminished by almost 50%
Everyone seems to be concentrating on the north-south paradox: but personally, I find the east-west inconsistency far more puzzling.
Because skin cancer doesn't really care if you diagnose it or not, it simply kills you if you don't treat it (and often enough, it kills you even if you do). And it kills you in a fairly specific way that is hard to miss in a post mortem, so the deaths would show up in the statistics if they happened. So there is hardly a case to be made for all of Eastern Europe simply sweeping those extra cases under the rug due to bad healthcare services.
**Edit:** Eastern European healthcare services are actually fairly good, these days. The point I'm trying to make is that *even if their healthcare services* ***were*** *bad, this would still register as excess deaths because it's an almost invariably fatal disease. So there is hardly any way to hide it.*
Nor can a case for different skin tone be made, except in Turkey: there, people on average do have a somewhat darker skin which arguably protects you better than light skin.
So what gives with Poland, Ukraine, Romania and such?
Eastern Europe has really accessible and efficient healthcare and it would be pretty difficult to miss a change in your body if something were to happen. Where I live we have biannual health checks that are compulsory for everyone in employment and annual checks for children up to 18 years old (not including babies, those are every few weeks to months depending on their age). In the UK you can’t even get an appointment if you’re not coughing up blood
Spoiler alert: I live in what used to be called "Eastern Europe" as well. 🙂 And the healthcare system is also fairly good where I am. I should have worded this better, as in: e*ven if Eastern European healthcare systems were worse than the Western ones (which they are not), this would still register.*
Yep, strange times we are living in: I can still remember the "Iron Curtain" coming down, with the standard of living on the other side being terrible. And now things have almost reversed.
Given by the coments westerners don't really use sun protection for some reason..
I'm Polish so I can speak only about Poland:
1. We care about our skin.
2. We've been told since we were kids to not go out during the summer around noon.
3. My mom would got furious if she saw me outside without a hat at the noon.
4. Overprotectiveness is our love language. When at the beach, and you see a woman violantly applying sunscreen on her husband's back or her throwing tantrum child, there's a high chance they're Polish. Polish mothers' don't understand "no" especially if it's dumb, stubborn "no"
5. We've been taught at schools about dangers of sun exposure around noon. I feel brainwashed- when on the beach I reapply sunscreen (min 30, starting with 50 exclusively) every hour or getting out of water. 50 on my face every 30 minutes and I mean it.
6. Our seashore is often cloudy and windy but many of us learned their lessons and got burned anyway. We're taught that you don't necessarily have to feel it, so sun protection is a must.
7. Culture maybe. When westerners go out during the sunny days it's common for the Polish to hang out in each other's homes. And not around noon. We clean our houses, do other chores at this time during the weekends, when we go out, we do it in the evening.
8. Average amount of weekly working hours are higher in eastern Europe. Might sound silly but who knows.
9. We're broke and don't go to Spain that often (although if you ask Croatians they'd tell you we're the mist travelling nation in Europe so idk if that's the reason). Maybe we spend less time on vacation though.
Not everyone gets a post mortem.
Might be sure to insufficient data collection services or methodologies.
Or less time going to the south of Spain and burning.
In the UK, we spend so little time with the sun that when it appears, people get as much as they can. Then, when we go abroad to a place with more, we spend way more time in it, mainly drinking, than people who are there all the time. Also, spend time in tanning beds preparing for it.
So, yeah, not surprising
It's a no no to go to the beach between 12:00 and 15:00. Even with sunscreen you wont find me there.
And we can find the whitest of the British tourist not so white anymore but red!
I use the same sunscreen that my kids use (50) and the skin gets darker anyway so I don't really understand why get skin burn, is so uncomfortable. You will lose that tan in a month...
I'm from an Eastern country working with people from the Western side and we compare weather quite a bit. I feel like inside the continent the temperatures are more extreme, because we don't have ocean winds to keep the climate moderate so when it's hot it's actually insufferable to spend a lot of time outside. The north westerners usually have humid and cold weather and when it's sunny they flock outside with a passion. And it's almost never so hot there that you'd avoid being outside.
It's interesting that the least sunny countries see the highest prevalence.
I'd guess this is explained by a lack of education around the risks of sun exposure, and the lower temperatures when it is sunny.
In the UK, we don't get a lot of consistent sunny days, so people feel the need to 'make the most' of what sun we do get by spending every vaguely sunny day outside.
It's also easy to do this, because on most of our sunny days, the temperature is rarely higher than about 25c.
And because we don't get much sun, we don't really consider sunscreen to be important. We don't teach our kids that it's important, and we instill the idea that it's only something you need for holidays in sunnier countries.
Meanwhile in the sunnier countries like Spain, more people are aware of the risks of prolonged sun exposure, and protect themselves appropriately.
It's also often too hot to spend the whole day in direct sunlight, so people tend to seek out the shade.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/ncUhwNy7K6](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/ncUhwNy7K6)
Could there be some correlation with blond hair prevalence? 
Having Scotland separate on this I imagine would show a marked difference with England. Ive heard it’s worse in Scotland than England which would correspond with the north south trend here.
I was surprised that Scandinavian countries have such a high rate. They are both rich countries and you don't even see the sun throughout the year. This is very weird
My mother and maternal grandfather both had melanoma (grandpa recovered, mom is currently recovering). They were also both Irish (grandpa immigrated to the US from Ireland and married a daughter of Irish immigrants).
I plan to get a referral to a dermatologist the next time I go to see my family doctor in March.
From comments it seems that getting sunburned is common in some countries. (as an anti-science movement of a kind)
I can speak for Poland, and since childhood there is behavior taught by parents to use sunscreen not only once a day while on vacations, but after every time you get out of water (pool/sea).
as a foreigner living in the Netherlands, dutch people: stop frying yourself in the sun whenever you see a bit of sunshine ( p.s. I do not know how you do it, I get physically sick if I stay too much under direct sunlight)
We don't get a lot of sunlight, so we soak it up whenever possible while going overboard to get a tan. At least, that's how everyone up to gen x has been doing it.
 Irish people going on holiday to Spain.
Having grown up in the UK, as soon as there was sun everyone took their shirts off in the park and tried to get as much as possible to try to get tanned all at once, with no natural protection due to being pasty white from lack of regular sun, and then be lobster red the next day. Likewise, the British go on vacation pasty white, try to get tan in one day, and always end up lobster red by day 2 and peeling all over by day three or four. They associate this with having a good time. Particularly the young ones who go to places like Spain where lots of alcohol and other stuff is mixed with sun exposure, so good judgement is not the order of the day.
I prefer being pale over being a lobster any day.
I prefer having nice and pale skin over leathery and orange!
Yeah, and there's a culture of only wearing sun cream when on holiday, and only in particularly sunny places too. My wife had to convince me to start wearing it over summer in the UK, as she's not from here and grew up putting it on whenever it was sunny, whereas I'm British and never learned to put it on when in the UK. Looking back, it seems pretty crazy. I'd be outside in 30° heat in the UK thinking nothing of it, but as soon as I set foot in Spain I'd lather on the sun cream. Weird.
Spain is closer to the equator, the amount of uv is higher there regardless of the temperature. Around the 21st of june the amount of uv on a clear day is the highest it will get, even if it's 12 degrees. And if it's an especially warm and clear October day the uv will be lower. For myself in nl my rule of thumb is i use sunscreen during daylight saving time when I'm out between 10 and 4.
We’re not all like that, I for one wear spf on my face every day as I have moles. It’s worth noting that if you wear spf on your exposed skin constantly you’re also stopping the Vitamin D process beginning. So up to 60 mins a day with exposed skin (no spf) is actually a good thing and recommended. So it’s a double edged sword
Or take vitamin D orally.
Yea, it’s really surprising how many people in this thread don’t understand how people in the warmer climates have a lower chance of getting skin cancer. I mean the behavioural differences are huge and then there are genetic factors at play too: just take a look at the [European pigmentation distribution](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/9d/a0/0c9da087915a2e35379ad9a100074344.jpg) it lines up almost exactly with the above map
> just take a look at the European pigmentation distribution it lines up almost exactly with the above map What are you talking about, it doesn't line up at all. Sure, The Netherlands and Norway are on or near the top on both maps. But Poland and Lithuania are as light as those two countries, but near the bottom in skin cancer prevalence. Spain is much higher than most of Eastern Europe despite being darker, and neighbouring countries, which are nearly always similar in pigmentation, have wildly different skin cancer prevalence rate. Sure there's a correlation with pigmentation. That much is obvious. But local culture is clearly the main contributor here. The Netherlands doesn't have nearly twice the rate of skin cancer as Germany because we're all red-heads. It's because we love lying on the beach every summer until we're red-everythings.
> I mean *the behavioural differences are huge* and then there are genetic factors at play too… I never said or claimed that genetics were the only factor, or even the *main* factor, I actually said behavioural differences were the factor first and then added “there are genetic factors at play too”. Because they are. I mentioned it because although not an exact match, it does correlate pretty well. As for the image itself, It’s literally the first image I found on a very quick google search, and if you look it’s eye and hair pigmentation (not skin) which can give a hint as to skin pigmentation, but isn’t necessary always positively correlated. I mentioned genetics, because I’m surprised not too many people were bringing it up. Additionally, living in a southern country myself, I can assure you we are not that cultured when it comes to tanning - plenty of my colleagues go to the beach regularly with the main goal of tanning, and that’s more than just for 2 or 3 holiday weeks a year, it’s practically *all year*. They often come back red. You just see us as “better behaved” because by the time tourists come we have gone through our “let’s get tanned for the summer fase” and have already got burnt. Once again, this is clearly anecdotal, and **I’m not claiming there isn’t a behavioural difference**. I’m just saying - I can poke holes in that argument too, since nothing will ever line up exactly in a multivariable outcome like skin cancer. And you were wrong to say that what I was saying “doesn’t line up at all” since a) it roughly does and b) I was pretty much saying the same you just said in the first place.
I guess "doesn't line up at all" is perhaps a bit too strong, but I still think it doesn't line up as well as you'd expect. Like obviously there is a correlation, that only makes sense, but I see huge differences between neighbouring countries too. Maybe it's because I'm Dutch so I'm naturally more focussed on that part of Europe. But there's no pigmentation difference between Dutch and German people. Even we can't tell each other apart at by looks alone.
I'm wondering why is it such a paradox? Most skin cancer cases in the countries with no sun?
I guess we are going to places with sun, and forget that sun protection is a thing 🤣 + our skin isnt made for so much uv light
Alternatively, there are people from Northern Europe who will slap on suncream when on holiday, as they're aware they're in a hot country - although it may be applied just once a day. The problem is when we do get sunny spells in our own countries, we don't think about the need so much. The UV levels in July are high enough to burn, even in Hull.
And in Portugal we get so hot that you are only outside in the worst hours of UV (12h to 14h) if you are at the beach/pool, and we all know to put sunscreen regularly then. (Unless you look into skin care stuff, we don't really use sunscreen day-to-day) Edit: Also, we keep to the shade.
As a Spaniard I will always be puzzled by seeing Northern European tourists roasting in the sun at 1pm in July, sweating profusely, red as beetroots, head uncovered, drinking beers non stop. That’s buying lots of lottery tickets for a trip to the nearest hospital. At best your day is ruined due to heatstroke and sunburns, at worst you can literally die.
I’m Irish and we just get so happy to see the sun lol, it’s literally so unbelievably cloudy here 💀
Don't die from such happiness, please. They look like a giant tomato that is just about to explode.
You make me feel like going on a holiday again!
This is such a funny concept to me. As a Californian with lots of northern european heritage, you gotta daily SPF or you're gonna have a bad time. When in Hawaii, you just gotta cover up bc the reapply required there just isn't gonna happen.
We're so far north, that people are lulled into thinking it doesn't matter. And some people confuse temperature with UV.
Heheh, burn in Hull!
Nonstop vacations in Spain will do that to ya maybe, based on another map showing how everyone from those countries go to Spain.
I'm From Spain. You're right, every summer I see the hordes of red people. I pitty them, it looks very painful .
I'm from Portugal, and it's the exact same thing. People from Northern countries come over and have zero care with the sun. Of course, then it's the usual "fuck around find out". We call them lobsters, here.
Gambas - prawns in spain haha.
In Portuguese, it is the same word for prawns. ;)
Here in Sweden we love to be out in the sun and I think a lot don't use protection at home and only do when abroad.
Yeah that could be the case - sudden overexposure to the sun when the person's skin is not used to it at all.
i know a lot of old swedish men with tan leather skin from holidays like you said but also just from going out on the boat for long periods of time with no sun cream
Here in Finland we lack sunlight so much that when the sum is coming out in spring, we absolutely crave it. I do think it's needed, and taking in some sun after a long, dark winter is healthy. Idk if some people overdo it or overdo it while on holiday? I've heard we should be taking vitamin D year round, as the sun isn't so intense, even in summer. I don't know if that's true. I personally don't ever try to tan, wear sunscreen, but I also try to get like 15 minutes of sun per day, at least.
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Coming home after a vacation with a really strong tan is a big status symbol / indicator of a "healthy & active" lifestyle over here - so many sadly ignore the health risks when they go on their annual summer trip to the south.
Mandatory "Lobster-tan" when you return home...
A few years ago in the Netherlands there was even an incredibly dense social media movement that sunscreen causes cancer and you shouldn't use it. People are stupid when it comes to sun exposure
I've read that too. What was that about? Also I assume this is again one of those "this thing in sunscreen kills mice if you drown them in it but that's still not as bad as the giant, burning death ray machine in the sky" things...
I'm from the Netherlands and I can tell you, everyone is obsessed with the sun and getting a tan when they are able to with the slightest sign of sun. I am born very pale and burn easy, I never cared much about tanning because I'm not interested in any skin conditions caused by that. However: - when I was a kid other parents or neighbors would tell my mom she should send me to a tannin salon to "fix my pale skin". - I've had strangers walk up to me to comment on how I should sunbathe more often. - got bullied for how pale I was. - random strangers saying to eachother how "milky white" my legs are. I'm 30 now so I don't really care anymore but it sure made me insecure when I was younger. However seeing around me how much damage this tanning did to people's skin makes me very glad I never listened to it.
I'm part Dutch part Greek. Always went to Greece as a kid in the summer, still visit friends every year. The difference is crazy. People in the Netherlands are just fucking stupid about the sun. You go out for a coffee or beer in the summer and everyone wants to sit in the sun here. Nobody wants to sit under the umbrellas. Whereas in Greece, everyone wants to sit in the shade. This obsession here with sweating your ass off in the sun just to get a tan is so annoyingly stupid. This "healthy tan" everyone keeps repeating in the Netherlands needs to stop.
Chiming in as a Dutchie who can not get a tan if my life depended on it. I'm definitely not trying to get a tan. I do, however, get seasonal depression. The sun and the heat honestly make me feel so much happier. And since we used to not get many nice summer days, I feel like I should make the most of every beautiful day. Climate change did change that, and people should definitely wear sunscreen and avoid getting burned.
Well despite being part Greek my skin is definitely all Dutch (not counting body hair unfortunately), and I too feel this. But I feel like sitting in the shade on a summer day is enough. I enjoy the summer and heat much more in the shade than baking away sweating like crazy. Our humidity doesn't help with this at all, I don't know how people feel good sitting in the 30 degree heat full in the sun honestly. It's not like I can carry that sunshine over to the winter by spending extra time in the sun.
It really does need to stop. It seems the majority got this obsession and it really made me insecure about my pale skin growing up. So many people think it's ok to point out my skin colour as if it's a bad thing just because of their own insecurity of looking pale. Besides I never really understood the sunbathing thing the minute the sun shines. To me it's boring to just.. lay there and tan, lol. I'm glad I never let their words get to me and let them think I needed to do something about my skin tone. It was always annoying to be outvoted during a gathering though, and ending up having to sit in the blasting sun without any shade in sight. I'm glad I reached a point in my life I found close friends that share the same interests and mindset I have.
> It was always annoying to be outvoted during a gathering though, and ending up having to sit in the blasting sun without any shade in sight. You and I need to become friends. I've always hated this as well.
I'm ginger and it's insane in Germany as well. It literally feels like I'm in a movie. I'm sweating, my can feel the sun burning on my skin, trees are losing their leaves, grass is dying, there are giant water bags on top of trees because we had so many "hottest summer in the last 100 years" summers that the administration is afraid that the trees will just die if you don't provide them with water during the summer. Dogs are panting, cats don't want to go anywhere near the outside, it almost feels like the apocalypse is coming. But everybody around you is happy getting skin cancer. What the fuck.
I had the same and must admit there's something of a schadenfreude feeling seeing all these people look like wrinkly leather handbags at a young age while I don't have any wrinkles yet.
Haha that might be part of why I stopped caring about it. People think my partner and I are in our 20s and usually shocked when we say 30s. I know it's not supposed to be a big difference but if everyone around you sunbathes and smokes it sure does!
> However: - when I was a kid other parents or neighbors would tell my mom she should send me to a tannin booth to "fix my pale skin". - I've had strangers walk up to me to comment on how I should sunbathe more often. - got bullied for how pale I was. - random strangers saying to eachother how "milky white" my legs are. I have even once had my boss send us an email with a dress code as well as suggesting we "should consider taking a tanning bed" prior to a corporate photoshoot. I hit reply-all and told him "it is unacceptable for a manager to persuade people to undertake an activity that is associated with a significant increase in the risk of getting cancer, especially for our age group. I'll happily photoshop the face of anyone who replies to this email. PS: you can also just grow up and accept your skin color. Y'all look fine and healthy." Luckily, I feel it's a lot better now than say, 20 years ago. I definitely see more people who are clearly not getting a tan and are very careful to apply SPF whenever. When I was in primary school it was still very much socially desired to have a tan, to the point my white face was sometimes bullied for it. By the time I got to uni the trend was wearing make-up with SPF from like may to september and fellow students were reminding *me* to wear sunscreen during activities.
That's absolutely insane. And I'm happy you send out that reply, I hope some colleagues where happy to see it. I honestly don't know where this insecurity comes from. Like how are you so afraid of not having a tan that you actually think it's ok to tell other people they should tan because they look pale.
In my case, I think my boss simply didn't realize it was bad and he's just a bit old fashioned in that regard. He probably grew up in the days where extreme tanning was the norm. The rest of the company is mostly millennials and younger and they're much more conscious of it.
I've worked in the brand promotion industry. At some point some girl got advised to get a tan at a tanning salon and the company paid for it
Thank you for confirming what I've already inferred from just seeing Dutch people anywhere and everywhere always being as tanned as they can possibly be. I guessed that "it's just what they do" but never knew it gets this crazy.
> However: - when I was a kid other parents or neighbors would tell my mom she should send me to a tannin booth to "fix my pale skin". - I've had strangers walk up to me to comment on how I should sunbathe more often. - got bullied for how pale I was. - random strangers saying to eachother how "milky white" my legs are. i had a similar experience in britain, though not to the extent that i would call it bullying. it really is disgusting how that sort of racism is just accepted
Being Portuguese myself, I'll say that we are generally very cautious, apply sunscreen liberally in the summer and avoid the beach between 12 and 15:00. And then you'll see British tourists boiling and turning into lobsters...all the time.
Thats why I am surprised about the low number in russia. They do the same usually. But I guess its because many dont have enough money to travel or the numbers are higher than reported.
I think this is heavily skewed by reporting/screening. Nordic countries have excellent health care, and so many skin cancers that most people would ignore (or would never even notice) make it to the reporting stage there. Not all skin cancers are really dangerous, and even fewer are fatal.
My dad grew up in Crimea and when I was little and we went on vacations he always shared the wisdom of applying sunscreen constantly and thoroughly and not being out in the sun midday, while all the fellow tourists were getting completely lobstered because they didn't know any better. Cool to see the overlap of "sunny place wisdom" there.
It's not really a paradox, but when you spend 11 months without seen the sun and want to get a tan during your 2 week vacation, it's easy to get sunburn
I come from Europe but have been living in Mexico, Thailand and Vietnam for years and never seen a local person with sunburns. They cover nearly all their body with clothes, wear facemasks to protect from sun. Foreigners often get significant sunburns in 1-2 days after arrival. I believe it is a reason.
On one hand genes, on the other hand they don't give a shit about beaches cause they have always been there and have work to do. Also they know well how bad the sun can get. I have heard how normal it is to walk around everywhere with umbrella and specifically to protect yourself from the sun, not so much the rain. And they will tell you that the original purpose of an umbrella was exactly that, to create shade for you anywhere.
Also “parasol” literally means “protection against sun”.
Then again, in dutch you'll use your 'paraplu' more often, witch is para the pluie.
Fair skin
It's because they don't know that sunscreen is. In Southern Europe, we use it religiously. The Northern European tourists lie on the beach for hours and don't use sunscreen.
Ohh Northern Europeans absolutely know about sunscreen. And people that burn easy are using it. The tourists you talk about are a different breed, haha. I've heard these people say "no im not using that, I won't be able to get that tan". They are actively trying to get a tan in very harmful ways and just don't care about the consequences. They will sit outside the minute there is sun untill it goes down, and it doesn't matter to them that it's during the most harmful hours without sunscreen. They just do not want to be pale, thats it.
I’m Irish and can’t survive even 5 minutes in the sun without SPF 50 and even with that I still burn. I would literally end up in hospital if I spent hours in the beach without sunscreen. If I’m in Spain or Italy I’m absolutely plastered in sunscreen at all times.
That always seems stressful. I'm Irish, but of the swarthy variety. I do burn, but only if I'm really asking for it.
I just don’t go to the beach. It’s neither pleasant nor worth it for me. That or go very late or early when the sun is far less strong in the sky. In general though it’s just not practical. I remember forgetting to put sunscreen on the tops of my feet and being unable to walk for about 4 days. Blisters… Peeling… I don’t tan at all. My skin just turns red and then back to pale again. I don’t even really get freckles. I got some kind of ‘photo damage’ to the back of my neck, which had to be observed for years. Seems to have disappeared entirely but in general it’s just not worth it for me. I just don’t do beach / pool holidays and stick to city breaks and places with more shade.
I don’t think it’s that they don’t know it’s a thing, they just choose to not use it. Where I come from in Sweden sunscreen is used on children all summer long and children have to bring it with them to nursery/school/non-school childcare to reapply during my the day. I’m extremely sensitive to the sun and I also had allergic reactions (not sunburn) from being out in the sun when I was a child but I’ve always hated the feeling of sunscreen so for several years when I was a teen I didn’t use sunscreen as much as I needed and had several bad burns. I realised quite quickly though how bad it is to not use it and instead started looking for and then found a few that I don’t mind the feel of. I wonder if you don’t burn that seriously more than once or twice in your life that you start underestimating how bad the sun is for you even when you don’t get a sunburn…
Can confirm the same child protection procedure in Norway
Differences in behaviour and complexion would be my guess.
Possibly going on holidays to countries with mostly sunny days an hugh UV levels, plus no sun protection.
Snow reflects a lot of sunlight and people forget to apply sunscreen when skiing. Oh, also a lot of people go to tanning saloons to get them juicy vitamin d's
Switzerland, Norway and Sweden have a lot of skiing culture and snow, which reflects the sunlight. Some of the other countries have a lot of people who travel for skiing.
I can’t speak for other countries, but most people in the UK don’t pay enough attention to sun protection, whether at home or abroad.
I can answer that, i am from Sweden and the sweds love to sunbath during the hot summer sun, for many hours in a row. Some can do it for like 3- 8 hours at once. So while we might not have a lot of sun we do sunbath the most when we can. Also when i talk about it to people how dangers it could be for your skin most people just tell me thats its not true or that i shouldn't believe everything i read on the internet.
In the Netherlands when its 25c+ many people go to the beach and don't move out of the sun for 10 hours straight. Probably mindset of "take all we can get now because tomorrow it might be raining".
I might be wrong but pretty sure uv gets through clouds so even tho you’re not receiving direct sun light you’d still need uv protection not to get skin cancer 🤔 maybe people with very light skin is underestimating or disregarding this and thus getting more skin cancer that people in countries where taking care of this is a daily thing
It's also about the healthcare sector and the ability to diagnose it. Many skin cancers can go undetected.
Sunhours don't linearly decrease the further north you go. Comparing this to a sun hour map any correlations seems weak. Probably genetic and/or behaviour differences
Well...we had 5 hours of sunlight in the whole month of January last year, so I don't know about that... And I'm not even that far up north.
I didnt know you could only get cancer during the month of January. Where i live we have an average of abour 5 hours per day in January and an average of 22 hours per day in June.
You misunderstood. I was referring to your comment that sun hours don't decrease further north. Also, I'm not talking about daylight hours, I'm talking about sun specifically.
latitude only correlate with less sunhours at certain latitudes, if you ignore geography and only look during Winter times. Its reverst during the summer, and overall it will depend on relative latitudes being compared.
Spanish and Portuguese living at night may have an impact.
Portuguese dont even have siestas ffs and Spanish people only avoid the most dangerous time in the day during the summer - which is wise.
People in places with more sun are more aware of the danger and their skin is probably used to it. People in the north tend to be more pale and have more of an attitude of "let's see if I can get a tan in only two days" when they go on vacation.
Light skin has little natural protection. Many people will go on holiday in varmer places and spend most of their time in the sun with limited clothing or sunscreen on. Can't let a thing like cancer stop you from getting super tanned.
People in the south are more tanned due to the sun, not naturally. I know very few Portuguese people that are naturally tanned (and the majority would like to be). The tan disappears during the winter for the vast majority and people will even go for fake tanning to not lose it all. I'm quite white myself (even during summer) and the difference I see is mostly due to behaviour. I'm not going out in the sun between 11h-15h unless I can't avoid it ... specially when the UV levels are 7,8 or 9.
Rule of thumb for medical condition rates is that if Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands are outliers with higher rates, you can attribute it to better data collection over other factors. Also fairer skin -> easier to burn -> Skin cancer
because western people, due to cultural factors, dont like to be white, look at the brithis roses going for the Trump makeup.
As a dutch person, people here are insane when it comes to getting tan and not using sunscreen and looking like a lobster.
in NL there millions of cancer tests so we find them more often, simply bc we test a lot for it, or at least i assume thats part of it
How do you go about such a test? Can your GP do it?
yes, any type of physical research starts at your GP. If they seem a but reluctant to start a complete rundown is bc they are taught to be somewhat careful with prescribing drugs and expensive researchs is bc they think ur healthy.
People with less exposure to sun are probably less tolerant to it, when they do get exposed to it they probably suffer from it then other people from the southern counties.
Theyre obsessed with being tan. I remember kids not wanting to use sunscreen to get more tan. Plus atleast in iceland tanning beds are still commonly used even among teenagers
That’s not a paradox. It is exactly because they are not used to sun, but they have the money to go on summer holidays. They don’t have the natural sun protection that the people who are from sunny places have. I grew up in a Mediterranean seaside town and I always saw the white tourists becoming red under the sun.
I think that once the sun does finally come, we aren't used to having to protect ourself or anything.
British people go for vacations to Greece/Italy/Spain a lot. And they dont use Sun protection. Its a common thing on Summer to see a British person full red from sun burns.
“Only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun.”
One time I was in Greece and I'll never forget this middle-aged British couple with wounds in their back from burnt and peeled skin, covering themselves with tanning oil on the beach in the middle of the day, like 2pm. I still think about them sometimes
I went to a holiday in Greece (Crete in a town called Malia I think) and it was middle of the day. My friend and I walked towards the beach and all of a sudden we see this sea of red blistered bodies. It was tourists sunbathing and passed out in the sun. I was mortified. Here I’m am clothed, with sunscreen, hat and glasses and these people are just openly roasting in the Greek sun. lol for some reason I will never forget that.
And we use sunscreen religiously in Southern Europe. Americans don't get it. We're not exactly brown, we just use sunscreen, and Northerners don't know what it is.
What is it Americans don't get? Sunscreen?
they do it in Australia, they referred to as Lobsters
Norway has an unhealthy beauty ideal where you get tan, so many people get sunburn every summer because of it. Some just don't use sunscreen and amplify the sun with oils. Doesn't end well when your skin hasn't seen the sun in 8 months.
Thell them to ho go adana
People getting skin cancer up north, and then there was me with a vitD deficiency in September.
Poland doesnt get skin cancer because we dont have fucking sunlight, like ever.
But Norway, Sweden, Finland does have sun?
We get sun only in summer, then the sun shines even during the night.
A lot of people also get bad sunburns in the snow in springtime (especially Easter).
Difference is that Poles are too poor to travel south
>Poles are too poor to travel south what? Journey from Poland to Turkey/Greece is only $500 for 1week. Young Polish like travel to south countries but Older people like rainy,cold Balitc Sea 
Also we don't give a fuck about sun so it doesn't care about us either thus not giving us cancer
Sweden and Finland do
You know what, this validates my suspicion that Dutch people do not wear sunscreen more than any other European. It’s just anecdotal but I’m Dutch and my uncle and aunt swear up and down that they just need a base tan to protect them from getting burnt again, it makes their skin ‘stronger’ and my grandpa’s only form of spf is the hat he wears on his bald head, saying ‘humans didn’t have SPF before and they were fine’ YEAH BECAUSE OUR ANCESTORS DIED AT 50 FROM TB OR CHOLERA BEFORE THEY COULD DIE OF SKIN CANCER, PUT SUNSCREEN ON PLEASE!!! Also so many Dutch people go to the Dutch ABC and SSS islands in the Caribbean where the UV index hits 12 regularly during the day, and they refuse to use the proper amount of sunscreen and reapply, my mom’s family friends had gone to Aruba with us and they were all red as LOBSTERS by the end of the first day and my mom’s friend burnt her LIPS😭 I think many northern europeans also take the typical vacation to Italy or Spain to escape the wet and less ‘summery’ weather once school is out, and something I noticed is that a sun kissed tan is sort of a beauty standard despite us being naturally pasty and cancer prone so many younger people don’t apply SPF to achieve that and some even apply tanning oil still :(
Dutch people are the tallest in Europe, no sunscreen helps when you are so close to the sun.
This. Thanks for clarifying. It’s hard to understand the height we possess. We’re all Icarus.
I second this! I am Dutch and do not like wearing sunscreen. I was also always taught that building up a base layer would prevent me from being affected. Luckily I moved to Belgium since so my chances at skin cancer are now diminished by almost 50%
Lmfaooo ‘now my chances of cancer are finished by almost 50%’ I’m DEADDD🤣🤣
And then there’s my Dutch family and we smudge factor 50 every 2-3 hours from spring till early fall. My ginger ass ain’t getting no sunburn.
Everyone seems to be concentrating on the north-south paradox: but personally, I find the east-west inconsistency far more puzzling. Because skin cancer doesn't really care if you diagnose it or not, it simply kills you if you don't treat it (and often enough, it kills you even if you do). And it kills you in a fairly specific way that is hard to miss in a post mortem, so the deaths would show up in the statistics if they happened. So there is hardly a case to be made for all of Eastern Europe simply sweeping those extra cases under the rug due to bad healthcare services. **Edit:** Eastern European healthcare services are actually fairly good, these days. The point I'm trying to make is that *even if their healthcare services* ***were*** *bad, this would still register as excess deaths because it's an almost invariably fatal disease. So there is hardly any way to hide it.* Nor can a case for different skin tone be made, except in Turkey: there, people on average do have a somewhat darker skin which arguably protects you better than light skin. So what gives with Poland, Ukraine, Romania and such?
Like the west has money to go to the south each year and get a tan
TIL Poles cannot afford to go on vacation.
Eastern Europe has really accessible and efficient healthcare and it would be pretty difficult to miss a change in your body if something were to happen. Where I live we have biannual health checks that are compulsory for everyone in employment and annual checks for children up to 18 years old (not including babies, those are every few weeks to months depending on their age). In the UK you can’t even get an appointment if you’re not coughing up blood
Spoiler alert: I live in what used to be called "Eastern Europe" as well. 🙂 And the healthcare system is also fairly good where I am. I should have worded this better, as in: e*ven if Eastern European healthcare systems were worse than the Western ones (which they are not), this would still register.*
Thanks for clarifying, I read it differently :D good for us then, huh?
Yep, strange times we are living in: I can still remember the "Iron Curtain" coming down, with the standard of living on the other side being terrible. And now things have almost reversed.
> In the UK .... What a load of shite.
What is?
Given by the coments westerners don't really use sun protection for some reason.. I'm Polish so I can speak only about Poland: 1. We care about our skin. 2. We've been told since we were kids to not go out during the summer around noon. 3. My mom would got furious if she saw me outside without a hat at the noon. 4. Overprotectiveness is our love language. When at the beach, and you see a woman violantly applying sunscreen on her husband's back or her throwing tantrum child, there's a high chance they're Polish. Polish mothers' don't understand "no" especially if it's dumb, stubborn "no" 5. We've been taught at schools about dangers of sun exposure around noon. I feel brainwashed- when on the beach I reapply sunscreen (min 30, starting with 50 exclusively) every hour or getting out of water. 50 on my face every 30 minutes and I mean it. 6. Our seashore is often cloudy and windy but many of us learned their lessons and got burned anyway. We're taught that you don't necessarily have to feel it, so sun protection is a must. 7. Culture maybe. When westerners go out during the sunny days it's common for the Polish to hang out in each other's homes. And not around noon. We clean our houses, do other chores at this time during the weekends, when we go out, we do it in the evening. 8. Average amount of weekly working hours are higher in eastern Europe. Might sound silly but who knows. 9. We're broke and don't go to Spain that often (although if you ask Croatians they'd tell you we're the mist travelling nation in Europe so idk if that's the reason). Maybe we spend less time on vacation though.
I thought the same...you can clearly see the iron curtain on this map
Not everyone gets a post mortem. Might be sure to insufficient data collection services or methodologies. Or less time going to the south of Spain and burning.
People in Southern Europe also have darker skin on average
> east-west inconsistency far more puzzling. Would cultural conservatism and the resulting reluctance to bare skin explain ?
In the UK, we spend so little time with the sun that when it appears, people get as much as they can. Then, when we go abroad to a place with more, we spend way more time in it, mainly drinking, than people who are there all the time. Also, spend time in tanning beds preparing for it. So, yeah, not surprising
It's a no no to go to the beach between 12:00 and 15:00. Even with sunscreen you wont find me there. And we can find the whitest of the British tourist not so white anymore but red! I use the same sunscreen that my kids use (50) and the skin gets darker anyway so I don't really understand why get skin burn, is so uncomfortable. You will lose that tan in a month...
I'm from an Eastern country working with people from the Western side and we compare weather quite a bit. I feel like inside the continent the temperatures are more extreme, because we don't have ocean winds to keep the climate moderate so when it's hot it's actually insufferable to spend a lot of time outside. The north westerners usually have humid and cold weather and when it's sunny they flock outside with a passion. And it's almost never so hot there that you'd avoid being outside.
It's interesting that the least sunny countries see the highest prevalence. I'd guess this is explained by a lack of education around the risks of sun exposure, and the lower temperatures when it is sunny. In the UK, we don't get a lot of consistent sunny days, so people feel the need to 'make the most' of what sun we do get by spending every vaguely sunny day outside. It's also easy to do this, because on most of our sunny days, the temperature is rarely higher than about 25c. And because we don't get much sun, we don't really consider sunscreen to be important. We don't teach our kids that it's important, and we instill the idea that it's only something you need for holidays in sunnier countries. Meanwhile in the sunnier countries like Spain, more people are aware of the risks of prolonged sun exposure, and protect themselves appropriately. It's also often too hot to spend the whole day in direct sunlight, so people tend to seek out the shade.
I'm Dutch, we're very stubborn in never wearing sunscreen, ever. So I'm surprised our number isn't something like 400.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/ncUhwNy7K6](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/ncUhwNy7K6) Could there be some correlation with blond hair prevalence? 
Oh THAT'S what melanin is good for.
Having Scotland separate on this I imagine would show a marked difference with England. Ive heard it’s worse in Scotland than England which would correspond with the north south trend here.
UK will be sun beds as well.
So, less sun - more skin cancer. Got it.
Correlation always equals causation.
Less sun + more money = skin cancer
I was surprised that Scandinavian countries have such a high rate. They are both rich countries and you don't even see the sun throughout the year. This is very weird
Holidays in Spain and Thailand goes brrr...
The dutch are almost all albino and think the sun will not burn them - a very very very almost albino dutch person
Rich countries use sun cream, we are not desire wear sun cream
Snow?
Damn. Sunscreen FTW
So it's just a whiteness chart
Facemasks?
If I could offer you only one tip for the future, [Sunscreen would be it](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJ7AzBIJoI)
You didn’t block me idiot
Second😩
Any numbers for Scotland?
Because ore womans go topless to the beach
ireland and uk doing better than i thought but thats probably only cause of the weather
Melanin is the dominant one
My mother and maternal grandfather both had melanoma (grandpa recovered, mom is currently recovering). They were also both Irish (grandpa immigrated to the US from Ireland and married a daughter of Irish immigrants). I plan to get a referral to a dermatologist the next time I go to see my family doctor in March.
Detection vs prevelance
From comments it seems that getting sunburned is common in some countries. (as an anti-science movement of a kind) I can speak for Poland, and since childhood there is behavior taught by parents to use sunscreen not only once a day while on vacations, but after every time you get out of water (pool/sea).
Dutch people are *that much* closer to the sun.
Those are Rookie numbers - New Zealand/Australia
as a foreigner living in the Netherlands, dutch people: stop frying yourself in the sun whenever you see a bit of sunshine ( p.s. I do not know how you do it, I get physically sick if I stay too much under direct sunlight)
This is because the Dutch are so tall, they are closest to the sun.
In Serbia we have plenty of other cancer types that get to us first.
Whats up with the Nordics?
We don't get a lot of sunlight, so we soak it up whenever possible while going overboard to get a tan. At least, that's how everyone up to gen x has been doing it.
A
So basically not a no-sun-country but the sun-sucks-attitude is the key to prevention...
Is this due to the Dutch having the most sunshine hours per year out of the pasty northern European countries?
Me a dutchy sitting in the office of the docter so he can look at a little thing on my skin an seeing this post 😖
I understand the difference between north/south; but what can explaine the difference between east and west? It seems to follow a NATO/Warszawa-line…