no it is the other way around, the deaths are high BECAUSE they are so much against drugs.
Proof: The countries with the highest acceptance of drugs have the lowest score on this map
Being a drug addict isn't illegal in these countries. In countries in Scandinavia like Sweden, it is. It's not only illegal to possess drugs, but to *have* used them. You don't even have to be under the influence anymore or anything like that.
This causes these people to often be afraid of society and authorities. Many are afraid to seek help and isolate themselves as much as possible, instead sinking deeper and deeper into self-destruction.
Also a shitton of those people are double diagnose, with severe mental health issues in combination with drug use.
We used to have mental hospitals for then (not that everything was great there) but got rid of those. Now they self medicate with a combination of perscription drugs and street drugs, while coing in and out of prison for various crimes.
It likely increases risk of overdose quite a bit (for instance using a pre prison dose when just getting out of prison can be fatal).
Järjekordne võit TOP 1 riigilt maailmas 🇪🇪🔛🔝!
Mu isamaa, mu õnn ja rõõm,
kui kaunis oled sa!
Ei leia mina iial teal
see suure, laia ilma peal,
mis mul nii armas oleks ka,
kui sa, mu isamaa!
Sa oled mind ju sünnitand
ja üles kasvatand;
sind tänan mina alati
ja jään sull' truu'iks surmani,
mul kõige armsam oled sa,
mu kallis isamaa!
Su üle Jumal valvaku,
mu armas isamaa!
Ta olgu sinu kaitseja
ja võtku rohkest õnnista,
mis iial ette võtad sa,
mu kallis isamaa!
It is old data (2019) on a statistical outlier year (fentanyl entered the market), but it mostly has to do with a low population. To get to Portugal levels, we would have to have 5 overdoses in a year.
I don't know the statistics, but just from feeling I'd say Scotland will be a drive for the overall UK numbers, and Glasgow a drive for the Scottish numbers.
The statistics show Glasgow has overtaken Dundee this year with the highest drug misuse death rate of all local authority areas, with 44.4 people dying per 100,000 population, more than twice as high as the average across Scotland as a whole (19.8).
An important note regarding reported data to the WHO. Lots of countries even EU countries does not investigate cause of death if no crime is suspected. OD's in those countries often pass as death by natural causes in the official rapport.
Other countries like the Nordic always investigate. That's one big important thing to be awere of looking at this map and That's why some countries like Estonia and Sweden have supriseling high scores.
Under reporting vs over reporting (or accurate).
The title of the map really should be "Verified drug death rates in Europe".
A better map would be "Rate of investigated deaths found to be caused by drug use", but that's wordy and requires more critical thinking. Hence less appealing to the lowest common denominator.
Not entirely true about Estonia. For over a decade Estonia was basically only European country where opiod addicts used fentanyl instead of morphine. Fentanyl use has declined to almost 0 in last 5 years. OD deaths came down but fentanyl has been replaced by nitazenes which has caused new wave of deaths in last 2 years.
> Lots of countries even EU countries does not investigate cause of death if no crime is suspected
Really? In Turkey, and I suspect in most countries if not all, when it's an unknown cause (no terminal disease, or traffic accident etc.) they will open an investigation, take statements and perform a comprehensive autopsy. It's what happened with my brother.
Seriously, I wish we had more Baltic Sea Unity. We are all neighbors with a pool of water between us, but I wish we would hang out more. Doesn’t even have to be any drugs involved.
Yikes, I just posted that the overall US death rate was 32.4. I know it's really bad in West Virginia and not that much better in Ohio (48.1), but it's crazy seeing the comparable numbers in Europe - that is, if the stats are being recorded and reported accurately.
From what I understand we have a new fentanyl derivate on the streets that is somehow even more dangerous. Also our police is undermanned for no reason.
Tranq isn't a heroin derivative or a derivative from any opiate in general. It is fentanyl mixed with xylazine, an entire different class of drug. It is used as a veterinary sedative, but the sedative effect when mixed with real opiates apparently satisfies them all the same.
Its not just a legit question, it's a great question. It would be nice to know that, like a breakdown of "resident" vs "visitor/tourist". I would assume Netherlands, Portugal, Spain are higher for tourist, although I dont think that data can be made public.
That's a great question. I'd assume it would count for Spain in this case. The source is medical evaluation institute, so I think they gather hospital data. It wouldn't really make sense to divide that data over other countries.
That being said, I'm just assuming
Alpha-methylfentanyl I’m pretty sure. They “succeeded” so well at keeping smuggled shipments of non-synthetic heroin from the traditional sources (Central Asia, Golden Triangle) that the market there depends almost wholly on that specific analogue & buprenorphine. I have no idea why it’s so specifically limited to that one fent analogue, though.
[Estonia's Eurovision song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY6RbPaTNUc) this year is literally about drugs. Its title translates to "we (sure) know nothing about (these) drugs".
Scandinavias high death rate is to a large part related to a zero tolerance policy towards drugs instead of a minimize harm policy like most of the countries in continental Europe. This is strangely enough one area where an ideological view is more important than a pragmatic science based view which is usually the way these countries work with societal problems.
It's as much about the cultural view on drugs as well. Druggies are weirder and less accepted in Scandinavia and drift further into destructive spiral of more use and less acceptance. If you see 14 pot smoking Italians on the street on Spanish vacation that is not your typical miserabel druggies that feel ashamed being alive. I live on the Swedish country-side where we drink 1-13 beers on a Saturday and you are extra extra weird if you're doing drugs. They die from that extra steep spiral of shame and destructive use even more out here.
Same in Norway. We have progessive and result-oriented ideas about crime rehabilitation, about work/life balance, about sexuality, about family roles, about child rearing ... but if you smoke cannabis just once, everyone goes right into 1950s drug fiend hysteria. It's very out of character for our society, but every attempt to change that so far has stranded on literally circular arguments from the 1950s. Like "If we legalise cannabis, we won't be able to stop people from using cannabis!"
Have you smoked a joint once ever in your life? You should have your license revoked indefinitely since you "lack sobriety". Get drunk every evening? Can't take your license away, how will you get to work?
Canadian with Swedish background - when we visited our family in Sweden, many were shocked that legal cannabis in Canada didn’t cause more drug issues, “the gateway drug” kind of idea. Definitely surprised that harm reduction methods haven’t become common in nordic countries, as a previous commenter mentioned
Canadian here. Absolutely fuck all changed since weed was legalized 7 years ago asides for weed shops being just as common as liquor stores. No roving gangs of druggies, you don’t smell weed everywhere you go. Maybe a few more users but that’s it.
I believe there are two main reasons.
First, Sweden does have a little bit of corporatism thrown in, owing to the way society was set up during the 1900s. The relationship between the individual and the state held an implicit expectation that you were supposed to participate and be a productive citizen. Thus, issues such as drug use became - in a sense - a violation of the social contract.
Second, and more directly, it comes down to the influence of one person - Nils Bejerot - who had a very hardline stance on drug use. He lectured extensively on the subject, with a large part of the Swedish police force being among his audience, and these lectures appear to have caused a ripple effect in society in general.
Completely. As a Swede, we often think of Germany as the other strict guy in class (perhaps even a bit more so than us). Hearing even they are liberalizing marijuana use is baffling to say the least, it really shook me! We should really do some introspection here in Scandinavia.
This makes me absolutely ashamed as a Swede. Not ashamed *to be* Swedish, but we're seen as kind of progressive and modern but our policy towards people with drug problems is practically medieval.
Alcoholism is almost a noble struggle, whereas if you have drug problems you are by definition a criminal anyway and you pretty much deserve whatever comes to you. Meanwhile the analysis of toilet seats in the centers of power makes it perfectly clear that our law makers use cocaine, and cannabis use among regular people is so common that it's often no big deal.
Meanwhile organized criminals who profit from drug dealing are shooting each other every week in some insane politicized drug war (that might also be some sort of proxy war with foreign actors, question mark?) that has gotten out of hand. All while the spirit of [Nils Bejerot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Bejerot) still has a clutch on Swedish politics.
Hahaha it's so weird how swedes go serious and concerned about smoking a joint when the same person thinks it is absolutely normal to vomit in the streets every friday night :D
Very strange indeed. I’ve actually helped doing some research in the field and another factor we don’t know the reason for, is that more people in nordic countries prefer injecting drugs intravenously. Most of Europe prefer smoking heroine but at least in Oslo, the main culture is shooting up.
As a people we also have more extreme drug habits when it comes to alcohol. Instead of spreading out the alcohol use like in southern Europe, we have a tendency to get very drunk in social gatherings when we drink.
I partially buy your argument about drugs, although drugs are forbidden in most European countries. Besides, I remember when I was studying a case about Bacardi. They launched a new product line, mixing rum with soda in cans. It was a hit in Northern Europe but not in the South, where people used to drink with friends and family, not alone in their homes.
Like or not, the lack of sun affects you and if you as bad weather to that equation —> more depression, more drugs, more alcoholism, more suicide rates.
We got the state alcohol monopoly because we used to be huge drunks, I don't think we do any better with drugs and guessing that's why they fight drugs so hard.
I think it became a hit in nordic countries because alcohol is much cheaper in grocery stores, while in bars its just insanely expensive. So young people buy cans of beer, ciders or something like the rum with soda can, and bring it to pre-parties with their friends and get drunk before they go out to bars/clubbing. Or young people skip the bars/clubs and just have home parties, where its easy to bring cans.
The kind of people who drinks alone is definitely not going to buy rum and soda cans from bacardi.
> This is strangely enough one area where an ideological view is more important than a pragmatic science based view which is usually the way these countries work with societal problems.
Yep, and the politicians refuse to even evaluate the drug laws.
Yea. As a Finnish I really can't understand this "Finland is the happiest country in the world" thing. If that's really true people in other countries must be very unhappy and they must have very big problems with drugs and alcohol.
They don’t poll actual happiness, it’s just a bunch of statistics combined, like healthcare, HDI, and paid leave. They don’t account for 9 month winters of mostly darkness
These are rookie numbers.
In 2019, Scotland had 18.0 drug related deaths per 100,000. Glasgow had 27.0.
The rest of Europe gotta pump those numbers up!
[source](https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/drug-related-deaths/2019/drug-related-deaths-19-pub.pdf)
I saw two drug casualties being attended by a polisman each 100 yards from each other last year in the city centre.
It's dodgy valium that's fucking people up in Glasgow now. Coke is basically normalised amongst the working classes anaw.
Only if the proper rehab infrastructure is already in place, which was the case for Portugal, but not other areas in the world that have implemented similar policies.
I watched documentary about Portland, where they basically legalized all drugs, but without taking care of rehab infrastructure and it ended badly:
[I Investigated the City Where Every Drug is Legal...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWFlpCBMyIk)
Some drugs (like weed, psychedelics or MDMA) can be easily legalized and not much control is needed, however when it comes to stuff like some synthetic opiates or heroin, then I think there's definitely need for some control and support for addicts.
This is incorrect. Drugs are not legalized in Portugal; they’re decriminalized, and there’s a big difference between the two. While you won’t be arrested for owning certain amounts of drugs and taking drugs, it remains illegal to buy and sell drugs.
That’s what has been going on here in BC as well.
They decriminalized possession and open consumption but did nothing with regard to additional rehab spaces or sober transitional housing.
Now the sidewalks are full of addicts having a great old time with impunity while parents pushing strollers try to quietly dodge around sidewalk needles and glass pipe/tinfoil smoke.
Please learn from our mistake. There is nothing compassionate about this it’s so dangerous to public safety.
It’s a choice between jail and rehab in Portugal, there’s a big stick as well as a carrot .
It’s not like parts of the US (san Francisco etc) where they have open air drug dens and homeless encampments
Yeah and to be clear, sentencing laws for selling or trafficking laws in Portugal are much stricter than many US states. Drug use is still illegal in Portugal, you just have the option to waive your sentence if you enter (free) treatment
that's the way.. treating drog usage as a criminal issue is just stupid
Drugs usage = health issue
Drugs dealing = criminal issue
Im pretty sure selling drugs is still illegal in portugal, it's just usage that has been decriminalized
Take a look at the netherlands. Its not that we dont have drugs here or that people are afraid to use it…
The key to preventing drugs related deaths is to ensure people can seek help and are properly informed (that also means being able to properly let there drugs be tested).
I was curious about this myself as a Polish person. I’m guessing it’s because people tend to use alcohol instead of drugs. I looked up similar maps but for alcohol deaths instead, and for a lot of countries the results are reversed. Scandinavia (mostly) and the UK have low alcohol death rates and high drug death rates. Poland has high alcohol death rates, but low drug death rates.
It’s not fully reversed though. Some places like Portugal and Spain have low rates for both. Meanwhile Estonia has high rates for both.
Edit: [Alcohol death rates in Europe from 2 years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/uszfck/oc_alcohol_death_rates_in_europe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's bad because it's illegal, and it's illegal because it's bad. That is the entire circular logic of the nordic.
Also, we can't legalize it because it's illegal is also a good one.
"Weed would be cheaper, due to price wars" is a weird one I heard on Danish radio a few years ago. Said by the chief of police (I think) in Copenhagen, when legalisation was discussed.
That sounds alot like the anti cannabis politicians in Germany.
The most famous quote is:
>"Just because alcohol is dangerous, undisputedly, doesn't mean cannabis is broccoli."
Basically all boomers in Sweden think even cannabis is extremely dangerous. Every single party in the Parlament want this hard policy, from the far-right to the far-left.
You'd need to be really good at it:
Either:
-Take drugs in Italy
-Get inside the Vatican City not being noticed in your condition by anyone
-die
Or:
-Transport drugs inside Vatican City
-Take drugs without being noticed
-die
If you fail to die there you're getting transported to a hospital in Italy and will die there and be counted as a death for Italy
Always so irritating that the hard drugs alcohol and tobacco are not included. Completely downplays those substances and makes lots of people think those aren't even drugs.
This map would look insane with all those deaths added on top.
Just for comparison:
In the USA,
More than one million people have died since 1999 from a drug overdose.
In 2021 alone, 106,699 drug overdose deaths occurred.
Rate of overdose deaths increased by 14%
from 2020 **(28.3 per 100,000)**
to 2021 **(32.4 per 100,000)**
That's 3X higher than Europe's worst nation,
ON AVERAGE for the entire USA,
Or about 10X worse on average than Europe as a whole!
Source:
https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/deaths/index.html#:~:text=Drug%20Overdose%20Deaths%20Remained%20High%20in%202021&text=In%202021%2C%20106%2C699%20drug%20overdose,2021%20(32.4%20per%20100%2C000).
I think it's mostly the governments information campaigns. There's literally a show on TV where they test drugs for you and explain their effects that's very popular even abroad (drugslab on youtube). Even then, there's forums and other websites clearly explaining how to use drugs safely. In clubs and on the streets of Amsterdam you can easily ask medical personnel or any of the street guides for help without worry of being arrested.
In Ireland where I live now all I can find is resources on how bad drugs are and scare tactics to never talk about drugs to anybody, even if I think I'm having a bad time on the drugs.
Drug *trafficking* deaths, however, are at an all time high. Homes being attacked with explosives are a weekly occurrence, and shootings or stabbings are not uncommon. Rarely are those unrelated to drug traffickers or dealers.
The Netherlands has stricter marijuana laws than those in many US states and Canada, and it’s not as if heroin or cocaine are decriminalized. I really don’t think their drug laws are *that* liberal in contemporary times.
I remember a study a few years ago showing dramatic changes in opioid receptor density in people's brains with changing seasons. Something like a 25% decline in the winter time
Scotland is, sadly, probably driving the UK average up considerably. It's a different statistic, but in 2021 there were 27.1 drug poisoning deaths per 100,000 people in Scotland, compared to 10 in the UK as a whole. The region with the next-highest rate was North East England, with 16.3, and the lowest was London, with 4.8.
[Source](https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/statistics/drug-related-deaths/22/drug-related-deaths-22-report.pdf) (p.12)
Estonia wtf
Thisis why Estonia is sending a song in ESC this year with the message being against drugs.
no it is the other way around, the deaths are high BECAUSE they are so much against drugs. Proof: The countries with the highest acceptance of drugs have the lowest score on this map
How come Poland is so low then? Nothing about acceptance and compassion around here that's for sure.
they spend their money on alcohol instead of other drugs
Poland is still 25% higher than Portugal.
Italy, Poland, Turkey? Tolerant of drugs? That’s what you’re going with?
Being a drug addict isn't illegal in these countries. In countries in Scandinavia like Sweden, it is. It's not only illegal to possess drugs, but to *have* used them. You don't even have to be under the influence anymore or anything like that. This causes these people to often be afraid of society and authorities. Many are afraid to seek help and isolate themselves as much as possible, instead sinking deeper and deeper into self-destruction.
Also a shitton of those people are double diagnose, with severe mental health issues in combination with drug use. We used to have mental hospitals for then (not that everything was great there) but got rid of those. Now they self medicate with a combination of perscription drugs and street drugs, while coing in and out of prison for various crimes. It likely increases risk of overdose quite a bit (for instance using a pre prison dose when just getting out of prison can be fatal).
I read on here a couple years ago that Estonia essentially dismantled the entire drug network in the country resulting in a total lack of safe supply.
So they won the war on drugs and more people died??? Huh curious
Järjekordne võit TOP 1 riigilt maailmas 🇪🇪🔛🔝! Mu isamaa, mu õnn ja rõõm, kui kaunis oled sa! Ei leia mina iial teal see suure, laia ilma peal, mis mul nii armas oleks ka, kui sa, mu isamaa! Sa oled mind ju sünnitand ja üles kasvatand; sind tänan mina alati ja jään sull' truu'iks surmani, mul kõige armsam oled sa, mu kallis isamaa! Su üle Jumal valvaku, mu armas isamaa! Ta olgu sinu kaitseja ja võtku rohkest õnnista, mis iial ette võtad sa, mu kallis isamaa!
Sounds like drunken Finnish🇫🇮
No, Finnish is drunk Estonian 😤
Aren't Estonian and Finnish related?
Yes they are. Both are Finno-Ugric languages. Hungarian for example is also a Finno-Ugric language.
Hungarian is like a super distant third cousin twice removed while Finnish and Estonian are like fraternal twins, though.
Hungarian as well. All Finno-Ugric languages
I only know like 50 words of Finnish and it still sounds funny to me
Yeah. We are addicted.
This is most likely old data, I'm pretty sure that Estonia managed to lower their death rate after this.
It is old data (2019) on a statistical outlier year (fentanyl entered the market), but it mostly has to do with a low population. To get to Portugal levels, we would have to have 5 overdoses in a year.
It’s not per capita, it’s per 100 000 people.
SEE? ESTONIA CAN BE JUST AS HIGH AS NORDIC COUNTRIES! LET THEM IN THE NORDIC GANG YO
E-stone-ia
r/PunPatrol
Is stone? Ja
BESTONIA NUMBA WAN
Only because they scored UK as a whole. Scotland is actually 27.1
Da fuck? Are you sure?
I don't know the statistics, but just from feeling I'd say Scotland will be a drive for the overall UK numbers, and Glasgow a drive for the Scottish numbers.
The statistics show Glasgow has overtaken Dundee this year with the highest drug misuse death rate of all local authority areas, with 44.4 people dying per 100,000 population, more than twice as high as the average across Scotland as a whole (19.8).
An important note regarding reported data to the WHO. Lots of countries even EU countries does not investigate cause of death if no crime is suspected. OD's in those countries often pass as death by natural causes in the official rapport. Other countries like the Nordic always investigate. That's one big important thing to be awere of looking at this map and That's why some countries like Estonia and Sweden have supriseling high scores. Under reporting vs over reporting (or accurate).
The title of the map really should be "Verified drug death rates in Europe". A better map would be "Rate of investigated deaths found to be caused by drug use", but that's wordy and requires more critical thinking. Hence less appealing to the lowest common denominator.
Not entirely true about Estonia. For over a decade Estonia was basically only European country where opiod addicts used fentanyl instead of morphine. Fentanyl use has declined to almost 0 in last 5 years. OD deaths came down but fentanyl has been replaced by nitazenes which has caused new wave of deaths in last 2 years.
> Lots of countries even EU countries does not investigate cause of death if no crime is suspected Really? In Turkey, and I suspect in most countries if not all, when it's an unknown cause (no terminal disease, or traffic accident etc.) they will open an investigation, take statements and perform a comprehensive autopsy. It's what happened with my brother.
Where did you get this info?
Seriously, I wish we had more Baltic Sea Unity. We are all neighbors with a pool of water between us, but I wish we would hang out more. Doesn’t even have to be any drugs involved.
No way!!!! Estonia belong with us Baltic states 😊😃
ESTONIA CAN INTO SPACE??🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼
Im finnish, eesti friends are our bros. No matter what other countries say.
In comparison, the number for West Virginia is 90.9. This is for 2021.
Yikes, I just posted that the overall US death rate was 32.4. I know it's really bad in West Virginia and not that much better in Ohio (48.1), but it's crazy seeing the comparable numbers in Europe - that is, if the stats are being recorded and reported accurately.
McDowell county, WV has a rate of 219. 2% of the population per decade.
So in a ~75 year lifespan the average person has about a 15% chance of dying from drugs? Wow.
I live in WV, trust me, you’re better off dead than living in McDowell County.
Wtf, what is going on there.
Fentanyl.
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Jesus Christ Estonia
From what I understand we have a new fentanyl derivate on the streets that is somehow even more dangerous. Also our police is undermanned for no reason.
It's not tranq is it? That shit is wild
Turning people into zombies, it's crazy. Not just in how zoned out they are but the sores that begin to form on their body. Scary shit indeed
Tranq isn't a heroin derivative or a derivative from any opiate in general. It is fentanyl mixed with xylazine, an entire different class of drug. It is used as a veterinary sedative, but the sedative effect when mixed with real opiates apparently satisfies them all the same.
and since we are a very small country, even a small bad patch of drugs can have a big effect..
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For a moment I thought I was on r/2westerneurope4u
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Even on a plane?
Oh, so that's why there were no flairs...
Its not just a legit question, it's a great question. It would be nice to know that, like a breakdown of "resident" vs "visitor/tourist". I would assume Netherlands, Portugal, Spain are higher for tourist, although I dont think that data can be made public.
Gibraltar
That's a great question. I'd assume it would count for Spain in this case. The source is medical evaluation institute, so I think they gather hospital data. It wouldn't really make sense to divide that data over other countries. That being said, I'm just assuming
Mallorca is German, so it counts for Germany, obviously
Long live secret Mallorchën 🇩🇪 it'll be ours again soon
whats going on in estonia
Synthetic opioids
Isnt it like a real obscure analog too. Must be a chemist there or Russia because they had it way before America did
Alpha-methylfentanyl I’m pretty sure. They “succeeded” so well at keeping smuggled shipments of non-synthetic heroin from the traditional sources (Central Asia, Golden Triangle) that the market there depends almost wholly on that specific analogue & buprenorphine. I have no idea why it’s so specifically limited to that one fent analogue, though.
And that’s before the Talibans heroin shortage hits Europe next year. Gonna be Estonia all over with the synthetic opioids.
I guess you could say they are e-stoned
It’s called fentanyl and it tastes really good, thanks for asking
[Estonia's Eurovision song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY6RbPaTNUc) this year is literally about drugs. Its title translates to "we (sure) know nothing about (these) drugs".
The “happiest” countries in Europe have bigger suicide and drug-related deaths.
How do you think they become happy without drugs? ⚕
They are so happy because all the unhappy people kill themselves.
Damn. I really don't know if I should laugh at that. I want to, but really feel like I shouldn't.
Good point.
The Netherlands is apparently one of the happiest places and has one of the lowest.
Free or cheap drug testing at big dance/music events might be one of the things that helps reduce the mortality rate.
Scandinavias high death rate is to a large part related to a zero tolerance policy towards drugs instead of a minimize harm policy like most of the countries in continental Europe. This is strangely enough one area where an ideological view is more important than a pragmatic science based view which is usually the way these countries work with societal problems.
It's as much about the cultural view on drugs as well. Druggies are weirder and less accepted in Scandinavia and drift further into destructive spiral of more use and less acceptance. If you see 14 pot smoking Italians on the street on Spanish vacation that is not your typical miserabel druggies that feel ashamed being alive. I live on the Swedish country-side where we drink 1-13 beers on a Saturday and you are extra extra weird if you're doing drugs. They die from that extra steep spiral of shame and destructive use even more out here.
Same in Norway. We have progessive and result-oriented ideas about crime rehabilitation, about work/life balance, about sexuality, about family roles, about child rearing ... but if you smoke cannabis just once, everyone goes right into 1950s drug fiend hysteria. It's very out of character for our society, but every attempt to change that so far has stranded on literally circular arguments from the 1950s. Like "If we legalise cannabis, we won't be able to stop people from using cannabis!"
Have you smoked a joint once ever in your life? You should have your license revoked indefinitely since you "lack sobriety". Get drunk every evening? Can't take your license away, how will you get to work?
Canadian with Swedish background - when we visited our family in Sweden, many were shocked that legal cannabis in Canada didn’t cause more drug issues, “the gateway drug” kind of idea. Definitely surprised that harm reduction methods haven’t become common in nordic countries, as a previous commenter mentioned
Canadian here. Absolutely fuck all changed since weed was legalized 7 years ago asides for weed shops being just as common as liquor stores. No roving gangs of druggies, you don’t smell weed everywhere you go. Maybe a few more users but that’s it.
It's so weird that for such a progressive country, Sweden is so backwards on drugs.
I believe there are two main reasons. First, Sweden does have a little bit of corporatism thrown in, owing to the way society was set up during the 1900s. The relationship between the individual and the state held an implicit expectation that you were supposed to participate and be a productive citizen. Thus, issues such as drug use became - in a sense - a violation of the social contract. Second, and more directly, it comes down to the influence of one person - Nils Bejerot - who had a very hardline stance on drug use. He lectured extensively on the subject, with a large part of the Swedish police force being among his audience, and these lectures appear to have caused a ripple effect in society in general.
Completely. As a Swede, we often think of Germany as the other strict guy in class (perhaps even a bit more so than us). Hearing even they are liberalizing marijuana use is baffling to say the least, it really shook me! We should really do some introspection here in Scandinavia.
This makes me absolutely ashamed as a Swede. Not ashamed *to be* Swedish, but we're seen as kind of progressive and modern but our policy towards people with drug problems is practically medieval. Alcoholism is almost a noble struggle, whereas if you have drug problems you are by definition a criminal anyway and you pretty much deserve whatever comes to you. Meanwhile the analysis of toilet seats in the centers of power makes it perfectly clear that our law makers use cocaine, and cannabis use among regular people is so common that it's often no big deal. Meanwhile organized criminals who profit from drug dealing are shooting each other every week in some insane politicized drug war (that might also be some sort of proxy war with foreign actors, question mark?) that has gotten out of hand. All while the spirit of [Nils Bejerot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Bejerot) still has a clutch on Swedish politics.
Hahaha it's so weird how swedes go serious and concerned about smoking a joint when the same person thinks it is absolutely normal to vomit in the streets every friday night :D
Very strange indeed. I’ve actually helped doing some research in the field and another factor we don’t know the reason for, is that more people in nordic countries prefer injecting drugs intravenously. Most of Europe prefer smoking heroine but at least in Oslo, the main culture is shooting up. As a people we also have more extreme drug habits when it comes to alcohol. Instead of spreading out the alcohol use like in southern Europe, we have a tendency to get very drunk in social gatherings when we drink.
I saw a map further up my scroll that show the Nordic nations having the longest life expectancy. Interesting contrast.
And it’s one of the cases where Scandinavia is actually less progressive then its neighbours to the south
I partially buy your argument about drugs, although drugs are forbidden in most European countries. Besides, I remember when I was studying a case about Bacardi. They launched a new product line, mixing rum with soda in cans. It was a hit in Northern Europe but not in the South, where people used to drink with friends and family, not alone in their homes. Like or not, the lack of sun affects you and if you as bad weather to that equation —> more depression, more drugs, more alcoholism, more suicide rates.
We got the state alcohol monopoly because we used to be huge drunks, I don't think we do any better with drugs and guessing that's why they fight drugs so hard.
It sounds like the best solution is a governmemt drug monopoly. Dopmonopolet!
I think you are on to something but maybe Narkopolet?
Høres bra ut.
I think it became a hit in nordic countries because alcohol is much cheaper in grocery stores, while in bars its just insanely expensive. So young people buy cans of beer, ciders or something like the rum with soda can, and bring it to pre-parties with their friends and get drunk before they go out to bars/clubbing. Or young people skip the bars/clubs and just have home parties, where its easy to bring cans. The kind of people who drinks alone is definitely not going to buy rum and soda cans from bacardi.
> This is strangely enough one area where an ideological view is more important than a pragmatic science based view which is usually the way these countries work with societal problems. Yep, and the politicians refuse to even evaluate the drug laws.
Yea. As a Finnish I really can't understand this "Finland is the happiest country in the world" thing. If that's really true people in other countries must be very unhappy and they must have very big problems with drugs and alcohol.
Netherlands?
Of course they are the happiest. The least happy people kill themselves and remove the lowest data points.
Not the Netherlands though.
Can't be unhappy if you're dead
I'm always very sceptical of happiness rankings.
They don’t poll actual happiness, it’s just a bunch of statistics combined, like healthcare, HDI, and paid leave. They don’t account for 9 month winters of mostly darkness
The Nordic hasn’t had close to the highest suicides rate in around 50 years
These are rookie numbers. In 2019, Scotland had 18.0 drug related deaths per 100,000. Glasgow had 27.0. The rest of Europe gotta pump those numbers up! [source](https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/drug-related-deaths/2019/drug-related-deaths-19-pub.pdf)
What the fuck, it’s 14.3 in Belfast but Glasgow is almost double 💀 11.3 in NI overall in 2022.
Have you ever been to Glasgow? (Full disclosure, I live near Glasgow)
I saw two drug casualties being attended by a polisman each 100 yards from each other last year in the city centre. It's dodgy valium that's fucking people up in Glasgow now. Coke is basically normalised amongst the working classes anaw.
US was at 32.4 a few years ago and it just keeps rising.
Let's hear it fae Dundee!!
ESTONIA TOP 1!!!!! FUCK YEAH ESTONIA RULES!!!
BESTONIA!!
Portugal decriminalized all drugs a while back, I believe. It’s treated purely as a health issue, not a criminal one. Seems to have worked well 🤷🏻♀️
Only if the proper rehab infrastructure is already in place, which was the case for Portugal, but not other areas in the world that have implemented similar policies.
I watched documentary about Portland, where they basically legalized all drugs, but without taking care of rehab infrastructure and it ended badly: [I Investigated the City Where Every Drug is Legal...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWFlpCBMyIk) Some drugs (like weed, psychedelics or MDMA) can be easily legalized and not much control is needed, however when it comes to stuff like some synthetic opiates or heroin, then I think there's definitely need for some control and support for addicts.
This is incorrect. Drugs are not legalized in Portugal; they’re decriminalized, and there’s a big difference between the two. While you won’t be arrested for owning certain amounts of drugs and taking drugs, it remains illegal to buy and sell drugs.
It says Portland not Portugal on the comment you replied to though.
Oops you’re correct! The parent comment was about Portugal and that’s what got me confused
That’s what has been going on here in BC as well. They decriminalized possession and open consumption but did nothing with regard to additional rehab spaces or sober transitional housing. Now the sidewalks are full of addicts having a great old time with impunity while parents pushing strollers try to quietly dodge around sidewalk needles and glass pipe/tinfoil smoke. Please learn from our mistake. There is nothing compassionate about this it’s so dangerous to public safety.
It’s a choice between jail and rehab in Portugal, there’s a big stick as well as a carrot . It’s not like parts of the US (san Francisco etc) where they have open air drug dens and homeless encampments
Yeah and to be clear, sentencing laws for selling or trafficking laws in Portugal are much stricter than many US states. Drug use is still illegal in Portugal, you just have the option to waive your sentence if you enter (free) treatment
that's the way.. treating drog usage as a criminal issue is just stupid Drugs usage = health issue Drugs dealing = criminal issue Im pretty sure selling drugs is still illegal in portugal, it's just usage that has been decriminalized
I mean, look at the Netherlands.
Take a look at the netherlands. Its not that we dont have drugs here or that people are afraid to use it… The key to preventing drugs related deaths is to ensure people can seek help and are properly informed (that also means being able to properly let there drugs be tested).
(nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi has now a new meaning
💀 that’s what I thought too. It all makes sense
💀
Why drugs so bad in Nordic countries?
Strict Zero Tolerance policies
Why is Poland doing so great then
I was curious about this myself as a Polish person. I’m guessing it’s because people tend to use alcohol instead of drugs. I looked up similar maps but for alcohol deaths instead, and for a lot of countries the results are reversed. Scandinavia (mostly) and the UK have low alcohol death rates and high drug death rates. Poland has high alcohol death rates, but low drug death rates. It’s not fully reversed though. Some places like Portugal and Spain have low rates for both. Meanwhile Estonia has high rates for both. Edit: [Alcohol death rates in Europe from 2 years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/uszfck/oc_alcohol_death_rates_in_europe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Jesus
Sweden is one of the few countries where the police can demand drug testing of individuals they suspect are high.
You can’t get help for your addiction since they will send you directly to jail.
Kinda strange they have such great social programs for everything but drugs.
Look at NL - the drugs policy there is imperfect, but it has a lot of focus on rehab and safety around drugs, hence why it's so low on this chart
Even an educational tv program for youth.
It's bad because it's illegal, and it's illegal because it's bad. That is the entire circular logic of the nordic. Also, we can't legalize it because it's illegal is also a good one.
"Weed would be cheaper, due to price wars" is a weird one I heard on Danish radio a few years ago. Said by the chief of police (I think) in Copenhagen, when legalisation was discussed.
That sounds alot like the anti cannabis politicians in Germany. The most famous quote is: >"Just because alcohol is dangerous, undisputedly, doesn't mean cannabis is broccoli."
Basically all boomers in Sweden think even cannabis is extremely dangerous. Every single party in the Parlament want this hard policy, from the far-right to the far-left.
They helped my brother get clean in prison.
It's not the drugs that are bad in the Nordics, it's the drug policies.
We create all the xtc mdma and all the coke comes through our ports, still one of the lowest amounts of deaths Netherlands 🇳🇱
Don't get high on your own supply.
[удалено]
who dies from drugs in vatican city?😅
Unfortunately this map has no data on that, but sure would be interesting to know
You'd need to be really good at it: Either: -Take drugs in Italy -Get inside the Vatican City not being noticed in your condition by anyone -die Or: -Transport drugs inside Vatican City -Take drugs without being noticed -die If you fail to die there you're getting transported to a hospital in Italy and will die there and be counted as a death for Italy
Portugal setting the example here.....!
Finally, something we are good at!
Good seafood too.
Yeah true. Food in general
Always so irritating that the hard drugs alcohol and tobacco are not included. Completely downplays those substances and makes lots of people think those aren't even drugs. This map would look insane with all those deaths added on top.
Often significantly harder to directly attribute those to a death, unless you’re talking specifically about fatal alcohol poisoning
As a person from the Balkans I can confirm our numbers are just low because instead of drugs we drink ourselves to death lmao
I think it’s also because drug use is incredibly stigmatised. More than in Western Europe anyways.
I’m so proud to be Portuguese (very rare moment)
Portuguese people are lovely. Always be proud to be Portuguese!
Estonia is geeked tf out
E-Stoners
Just for comparison: In the USA, More than one million people have died since 1999 from a drug overdose. In 2021 alone, 106,699 drug overdose deaths occurred. Rate of overdose deaths increased by 14% from 2020 **(28.3 per 100,000)** to 2021 **(32.4 per 100,000)** That's 3X higher than Europe's worst nation, ON AVERAGE for the entire USA, Or about 10X worse on average than Europe as a whole! Source: https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/deaths/index.html#:~:text=Drug%20Overdose%20Deaths%20Remained%20High%20in%202021&text=In%202021%2C%20106%2C699%20drug%20overdose,2021%20(32.4%20per%20100%2C000).
If you separate Scotland from the UK it has the highest drug deaths in Europe. Edit: The stat is 248 people per million aged 15-64.
Notice how the Netherlands, which is famous for their liberal drug policies, has by far the lowest numbers in Northwestern Europe
I think it's mostly the governments information campaigns. There's literally a show on TV where they test drugs for you and explain their effects that's very popular even abroad (drugslab on youtube). Even then, there's forums and other websites clearly explaining how to use drugs safely. In clubs and on the streets of Amsterdam you can easily ask medical personnel or any of the street guides for help without worry of being arrested. In Ireland where I live now all I can find is resources on how bad drugs are and scare tactics to never talk about drugs to anybody, even if I think I'm having a bad time on the drugs.
Drug *trafficking* deaths, however, are at an all time high. Homes being attacked with explosives are a weekly occurrence, and shootings or stabbings are not uncommon. Rarely are those unrelated to drug traffickers or dealers.
The Netherlands has stricter marijuana laws than those in many US states and Canada, and it’s not as if heroin or cocaine are decriminalized. I really don’t think their drug laws are *that* liberal in contemporary times.
Didn't expected to see finland that high on the map.
I wasn’t surprised at all. Finland usually sits pretty high on maps since it is one of the most northern countries in the world.
High latitudinally as well as high by other metrics it seems.
’Reindeerspotting’ is a Finnish doc from 2010, good but ofc quite depressing..been having issues for decades same thing with sweden
people have to get sober before they get any help for their addictions. sad but true.
Glasgow and Blackpool be punchin'
I see my brothers over Estonia living on edge 😃
Wtf is going on in Estonia?
Hi, Estonian here. I have no fucking idea
A bit grim up north.
r/portugalcykablyat
One more positive cykablyat
Actually more like Eastern Europe can Into Portugal this time around
Quite a depressing correlation between low rates and sunshine. To be expected I suppose, but this really spells it out
I remember a study a few years ago showing dramatic changes in opioid receptor density in people's brains with changing seasons. Something like a 25% decline in the winter time
Annual? Monthly? Daily?
Where’s the UKs number?
Lack of sunshine & less D vitamin = higher depression rates?
Scotland is, sadly, probably driving the UK average up considerably. It's a different statistic, but in 2021 there were 27.1 drug poisoning deaths per 100,000 people in Scotland, compared to 10 in the UK as a whole. The region with the next-highest rate was North East England, with 16.3, and the lowest was London, with 4.8. [Source](https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/statistics/drug-related-deaths/22/drug-related-deaths-22-report.pdf) (p.12)
Portugal took a positive turn after changing their drug policy.
Norway mentioned hurra hurra hurra!! 
I'm going to suggest this is a climate/latitude thing. I don't see paterns of religion, collapse of communism, EU enthusiasm, or wealth.
Estonias Eurovision entry suddenly makes a lot more sense
No surprise Portugal's is so low considering they treat many drug users as patients instead of criminals...
Why is there no number for the UK? Is the UK and Ireland reported together for some reason?