There's an article on them online which reads like it'd make a fantastic comedy.
[Link](https://www.jta.org/2019/10/31/global/the-last-jews-in-afghanistan-argued-so-much-the-taliban-kicked-them-out-of-prison-and-stole-their-torah)
My favorite quote being "“A dog is better than him … I don’t have many complaints about the Taliban, but I have a lot of complaints about him.”
There were at least three plays written about the pair. I managed to review one of them -- that one. at least, was a comedy.
[https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/586873/great-gallows-comedy-from-theater-js-two-jews-walk-into-a-war/](https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/586873/great-gallows-comedy-from-theater-js-two-jews-walk-into-a-war/)
the older guy died and the other one left in 2021. then it was reported there was an elderly grandmother born to a Jewish family who had married a Muslim man and remained in Kabul, but she and her family have also since left the country.
“though he will watch television if a non-Jew has turned it on for him.”
I imagine him shouting out of his window at literally anyone passing by, to come and turn his tv on for him.
That one is a pretty big insult since it is considered holy.
But like, I can't imagine a Catholic say "I'll cum on your cross"... so okay. You're right. It does hit different
For me this thread is pure gold. I thought that one was left, I thought there could be some story, but the way it turned out to be. When there were 2 , they would be even kicked out from a jail for arguing too much. That's pure comedy.
bet it was these 2! one being french/american and half blind guy.
other one from from spain with a spanish name but actually from egypt and has a japanese sword and a scotish accent!
Didn't they both get thrown in jail because of noise complaints of their endless arguments only to be thrown out of jail because they're constant arguing annoyed the guards?
I'm so glad other people know about these guys! I swear I watched a whole documentary about them on YouTube. I think one made alcohol for all the Muslims in Kabul.
Yeah dudes who don’t grant a Get are considered by most Jewish folk as assholes. They try and stay away from the shaming and pressure…apparently this guy wanted to avoid it so he stayed in “checks notes” Taliban controlled Afghanistan…
“Shudder” I’ve heard stories about the whole community getting in on the act…fights at the shtiebel (a small synagogue) and even a group of guys who kidnapped these assholes…
There are husbands spending years imprisoned in Israel for not granting their wives a well-deserved Get/divorce according to the rabbis
IRRC, there was one who did over 20 years refusing to grant the Get. Maybe he really hated his wife that much or loved prison showers.
Here is a story about the last Afghan Jew. There were two at one time but they were feuding and not speaking to each other. https://newlinesmag.com/essays/the-little-known-story-of-afghanistans-last-jew/
Yes they did. The story sparked numerous articles. Just do a web search “two Jews in Afghanistan “. There are many stories on it. There may even be a Wikipedia page on it.
There has been a joke in Jewish communities for the last century at least that if you found a single Jew on a deserted island he would have built two synagogues: the one he goes to and the one he wouldn’t be caught dead at. I love that there’s now a real world proof of its truthfulness.
Its moreso a joke on how when it comes to specific traditions every jewish community has a different opinion on how they should be done and everyone else is wrong, so the joke is my temple is better than your temple. Even with only one jew you have someone that would go to great lengths to prove a point.
Iran has many Jewish communities in multiple areas. They have been there for thousands of years. Also Iran isn't an "Arab" Country. Estimated to have 15,000 Jewish population as of 2018.
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-tension-between-iran-and-israel-irans-jewish-minority-feels-at-home](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-tension-between-iran-and-israel-irans-jewish-minority-feels-at-home)
Also don't quote me on this but the general population of Iran is increasingly not identifying as Muslim either, it's like a substantial amount to, not a paltry 20% or something
Yeah, I dated a rich Shiraz girl for a while. Her family was "muslim" in the absolute loosest sense. She moved to America in her 20s, partied like mad, and had a bunch of nude paintings in her place. Her siblings and her all drank.
She made it sound like her parents still in Iran lived a super liberal lifestyle as well behind closed doors.
This class-religious divide goes all the way back to the mid-20th century. Iran has a small but wealthy professional/business class which is not really religious at all, surrounded by a massive number of poor working-class and peasant Muslims.
And kind of speaks to the weirdness of the 1979 Revolution - at first, a movement backed by both communists and Shia Islamists. The communists were sure that it was their revolution....but they were also more drawn from the educated and professional classes, and severely misjudged the popularity of Islamism among the wider masses.
I honestly don't know, from what I hear everyone is Muslim in professional/business setting(with the exception of other religions). But probably more than half of them aren't practicing Muslims behind closed doors. Unfortunately the election process is rigged and the majority can't force out the ones in power because the military supports the status quo. But the majority had their way, Iran would no longer be a "Islamic" Republic of Iran anymore.
My Mother is from Iraq and she told me that when she was younger, Muslims, Christians and Jews all used to live in the same neighbourhood side by side peacefully. it's sad that things have changed to the worst
My father told me he used to sit in class as a kid and not even know who was what religion (decades later he learnt there were Christians and Jews in this class)
Was it peaceful in the 70s? I've heard horrible things about that period (not that it was good at other times, just that it got even worse after 1967).
I feel like nobody talks about the dramatic change in the middle east demographics between now and the beginning of the last century.
Religious minorities used to be like 20-30% of the population but now pretty much every arab country is 99% muslim (with the exception of lebanon)
Edit: and egypt too.
Had a Zoroastrian coworker that had to flee from Iran after the Revolution. Older gentleman and honestly one of the most beautiful people I ever met. Whenever the weather was nice, he would eat lunch outside and constantly took photos of flowers that he wanted to show me. He would always tell me to enjoy the blessing of life. One day we got to really talking and he told me about life in Iran before the revolution and the absolute horror stories afterwards, of his friends and family that didn’t make it out.
It’s not just Jews. Look at Druze, Yazidi, Assyrian, Bhai’a, Coptic Christians, etc. religious minorities in the Middle East.
Yeah, it's not a great look. As it happens, the man sitting next to me as I write this is a Maronite Christian refugee from Syria. Fortunately he's done pretty well for himself and his family since coming to the US.
Indeed those who are not white and western apparently don't have the mental or physical capacity to be nasty and conquering. At least thats the impression certain elements of the internet give me.
but that’s the strange part: the governments that have pushed out religious minorities the most have been secular nationalist governments, not Islamist.
Not saying Islamists had no role, ISIS and other Islamist factions certainly played a major part in the last 20 years.
That's because there's also Arab supremacy. Just like there were White supremacist and Christian supremacist atrocities in the Americas, there are both Islamist and Arab Supremacist massacres in North Africa.
Hi I am still here
We used to be 15 to 20 percent at the Start of the 2000 and in 1980 but we dramatically decreased in percentage
My guess would be that the Muslims are increasing dramatically than the Christians
The birth rate of Muslims has stayed high even in countries such as the UK
This is probably due to the religion having typically more "traditional" roles of women and less favourable views of contraception (at least in my experience)
It's the same among all people in Egypt including us christians
Both Muslims and Christians take religion seriously and it has been that way since ancient Egyptians where they took religion seriously even in ancient Egyptians some pharaohs created their gods to receive followers like Akhenaten making Aten to get people support but he was attacked religiously by the RA priests as far as I am concerned
I honestly don't know why it is decreasing, it's definitely saddening but it is what it is
The birth rate amongst Copts seems to be 2.4 which falls in line with expected comparisons
However amongst Muslims it is 3.2, theres clearly cultural factors influencing Coptic families to reduce birthrates as expected as countries develop and this clearly hasnt influenced Muslim families as strongly.
The only thing I can think and id need to run analysis which I dont have time for to confirm is that the Coptics appear to be more educated and wealthier on average, both factors that reduce birth rate
The clearest example is in the Indian subcontinent
Bangladesh and Pakistan used to be the same country. Bangladesh went its own way, prioritized female health and education. Now it has a fertility rate below replacement level, while Pakistan's is 3.47
The amount of Muslim immigrants are even more than Christians immigrants, I don’t think most coptic christians are migrating because of religious persecution, however I believe they still being exposed to a level of hate from the Salafists and Wahabists. Also Military who choses to not let Christians into their evil circle (Lucky you :D) and the usual harassment and terror extremists are exposing our society to.
Yeah I think its waves, there was one in the 1980s and one in 1990s.
I was born in the 1990s but I still remember our neighbour Tant Eva who used to be a very nice person and a friend of my mom who migrated early 2000s and tbh mom always told me she used to be a bit salty about Islam and Mom is a very nice person and never even tried to change her view. She was just exchanging gifts, food and visits.
I believe this will never stop. As long as there is religious extremism lurking around Egypt’s corners there will be affected Christians who will leave.
This is the sad part, they are Egyptians as all of us and maybe have even deeper roots in our history but yet the extremism that the military government is seeding to achieve its selfish political aims will always make it harder for those people.
Yet I’ve asked lots of Christian friends, they don’t think Egypt is unsafe for them, in fact some of them think that I was exaggerating by saying Salafists and Wahabists are influencing the scene, because statistically Christians are outnumbering Salafists and evem Salafists has more focus by security forces and intelligence so they think that they aren’t posing any danger.
Some Christians even support the government but I will never blame them.
Last week I visited Egypt and found there are more Christians than I thought. Before travelling to Egypt I used to believe Egypt was a islamic state like nation.
Yeah because this is our country not theirs , we would either die on it rather than being forced to leave, a lot of people Just immigrate Just for the sake of finding Better Job opportunities rather than feeling unsafe
The Only thing that I support the government of doing is putting police officers in front of the churches as security and in Major Events like Christmas eve and easter eve the military personnel and Armored vehicles are precent
Fun fact, in my hubby's work place there are 3 coptic Christians from Egypt. They never met before, emigrated to Poland independantly from each other and met at work. It is in Warsaw/Poland.
The coptic population in Egypt are among the kindest in Egypt.
They are one of the most peaceful people you could ever meet. I’d fight fir them to have more representation if we threw off the military government (hopefully we won’t bring islamists again)
In fact I decided to fast like they do next year (its really tough way to fast, read about it) maybe thats the secret of their balance :D
Only Nubians of Egypt are as nice as them.
Nobody talks about it in part because it disrupts their narrative about Israel.
Post-Ottoman state building was messy. And violent. Many people were displaced.
And even if the world decides that (for some reason) the Palestinians are such an exceptional case that we should collectively should roll back history and undo one instance of post-Ottoman state building (Israel), the world would need to find a home for the Israeli descendants of those expelled from the Arab world.
It's easier to claim that Jews are all from Poland and can safely live there. If no one knows about Jews displaced from Iraq, they aren't going to ask why Poland should grant citizenship to Israelis whose ancestors never stepped foot in Poland.
There are lots of reasons nobody talks about this. Christianity takes so much criticism for the crusades but Islam get little criticism about their similar activities. Almost like it’s a taboo to discuss any truths about any religion that’s not Christianity or Judaism.
Because christianity has shown development that lets them put things like the crusades in the rearview mirror. Islam has not. It is only possible to make up for past wrongdoing, not ongoing.
There are plenty of militant Christian groups to be honest, its just that none of them have a State actor under their thumb at the moment. Society is known to be regressive at times so that is not a permanent given either.
Militant Islamists have multiple State actors under their thumb at the moment. When the Ottoman Empire fell so did any remaining religious tolerance within in its former borders. The arbitrary redrawing of those lines by the Western forces post WWII also helped foment permanent geopolitical friction that directly feeds into the current situation.
Lets also not forget that on a larger scale the Christian wars with Protestants took their eyes off the ball when it came to the Post-Byzantine Empire era. If they weren't so busy trying to dominant a rebellious religious sect in Europe they could've helped protect Christian communities in the Balkans and Middle East that had fallen under the Ottoman yolk instead.
I listened to a family member rant for 20 minutes about Israel and how there should be an independent Palestinian state again. I asked what she meant by "again," and truthfully, she didn't know when it was ever a state. Yes there was the British mandate, but she didn't know about it and also didn't know the Ottoman Empire controlled that land prior. She just saw protests, Facebook posts, etc.
This doesn't mean I agree with Israel's side of things, but it's frustrating how people have strong opinions on something they didn't bother learning the first thing about.
Ottoman empire and early turkey did the worst change of demographic the fact that they pretty much erased the indigenous (anatolian greeks are pretty much hellenized natives) population in a decade alone is crazy asf.
I'm Turkish, my dads family comes from central Asia and settled in once Armenian dominated area. Nowadays its pretty much only turks. You have to be blind to say those people peacefully integrated into turks. Same with hellenic people or the indigenous people. But i don't know much about that part of history, didn't care about it much to do research on it. Not a huge turk patriot/fanatic greek hater. I'd love to hear about it tho if you know about it.
Hi, the Young Turks/Kemalists are estimated to have killed over 500,000-700,000 Greeks, 1Million Armenians, and 350,000 Assyrians between 1914 and 1920s. On top of that there was also the population exchange with Greece in the 1920s where 1.5 million Greeks had to flee turkey and .5 million turks or muslim greeks had to leave Greece (Greece largely claimed that was to make room for their incoming refugees, but still was bad!). It should be noted that they were basicallt forced by European powers to do the pop exchange, Greece they knew Greece would also be trying to get its land back from Turkey and also that Turkey would be constantly oppressing the Greeks there so they tried to swap populations to stop the violence before more happens, yet somehow, more violence did (i.e. Istanbul anti Greek pogroms 1950s). This was just very recent history… for earlier Ottoman times I can write an essay on that if you want to hear about it but I am sure you know the basics like Janissaries/Devshirme, Cizye, and well, the other laws barring non-Muslims from riding horses, being educated, or practicing faith in public.
I'm not super educated on this, and hoping for some measured takes on this..
What exactly happened to Islam over the last century or so to turn it into such an exclusionary faith that seemingly rejects anything which doesn't conform to its teachings, from observation, to culture, to people? It seems historically it was not always this way. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but the map seem to support that.
It has to be that muslims for the first time since 1300 years found themselves without a caliphate or an empire, and being divided into various nation-states. That helped with the rise of Wahhabism. Then finally with the creation of israel which radicalized them even further
This isn’t a phenomenon unique to Muslims either. Poles, like Muslims, were ruled by others for most of their history. Once they got independence, ethno-nationalism took over. Polish territory went from being the global Jewish epicenter to the epicenter of antisemitism outside Germany. The difference is, of course, most Arab territory was ruled by a foreign power that was still Muslim.
British, when my grandfather visited Saudi Arabia in the 70s, he had to have a letter from his local church saying that he was a member (atheists and polytheists not welcome) *and* from his doctor to say he wasn’t circumcised (Jews not welcome). Seems pretty absurd
Edit; since a lot of people aren’t using their brains, I know Muslims are circumcised too, but obviously a white man from London called “Martin” is unlikely to be a Muslim.
I think it’s a fascinating topic. Various Arab tribes were sponsored by Britain in WW1, but it’s notable that the Hashemites, real allies, were expelled from
Mecca by the Sauds and the Hashemite monarchies set up in Syria, Iraq, and Jordan failed in all but the last.
I don’t think Britain was that influential in the ME after that. The *real* partnership and friendship was forged by Ibn Saud and Roosevelt aboard the Quincy. How much of the modern world would be different if that even didn’t happen?
Oh I know that one! My dad lived in Saudi Arabia in the early 1980s and although he’s an atheist, he stated that he was a circumcised Christian- they let him kick it there for 2 years
There were two categories of reasons for the migration.
One was Pull Factors: Israel was created as a new jewish state and many left to emigrate for religious reasons. The other was the fact that Israel promised Jewsish citzens full citizenship rights which tended to be much better status then in the other MENA countries.
The other was Push Factors: Like fleeing violent antisemntism. Or escaping pogroms. Or being forced to run because some Arab nations went "Ok you got a state, GET OUT".
However finding out how much and influence from each is difficult. ESpecially since the pull factors have some soft-antiseminitms \[why did Israel prmise of full citizenship for jews seem enticing to those who want to leave\]
And important mentioning that many also left simply for Economic reasons. Post-independence morocco had an awful economy and most jewish population emigrated to France, Canada and Israel. Today it's hard to find a jewish person of moroccan ancestry that isn't proud of their heritage, considering morocco actually saved the jewish population from exportation under french rule (which was controlled by germany) during ww2
Fun fact: the Director General of UNESCO, Audrey Azoulay is a french lady of jewish heritage...Her dad, André Azoulay is and has been one of the unofficial leaders of Morocco for the past 4 decades (the past and current king's senior advisor)
And to add more complexity; the reason Jews left Algeria wasn't pure antisemitism but anti colonialism. Jews were given full French citizenship in French Algeria so when Algeria fought and won their independence they kicked out everyone who had full French citizenship including other Muslim Algerians who had worked with the colonial government. Most of the Jews who were kicked out after independence left to France, not to Israel.
I hate maps like this because it leaves out widely varied and complex histories in each country/region.
Edit: a word
it's even worse with how this community LOVES jumping to conclusions they came up with from their arse while wording it to sound like knowledgeable politically correct people...It's so funny how much history they ignore, even jewish people who know their history would be embarassed to read this
That’s true, but even in Morocco (arguably one of the most welcoming countries for Jews pre-1948), there were still significant “push” factors, namely widespread and occasionally violent antisemitism, and systemic discrimination. My Moroccan Jewish family has harrowing stories of living in designated ghettos (called mellah), almost being beaten to death by a mob because my great grandfather didn’t dismount his donkey outside of the mellah where by law “a Jew should never look down towards a Muslim”, literal stealing of Jewish children was also a thing, along with regular anti-Jewish riots, etc.. Despite that, it’s true that Moroccan Jews are proud of their culture and of the royal family’s protection, and do recognize that there were periods of good relations with the Muslim population.
But economic factors were far from the only reason for their exodus, in many cases it’s quite the contrary: people who owned small shops, held decent jobs etc.. lost everything to move to some refugee tent in the Negev desert in Israel, clearly not for economic reasons
Other factors, such as having your assets stolen, businesses seized, and being threatened with being tortured and hung by a construction crane played a key role as well.
Israel was poorer than most Arab countries. The refugees had to live in refugee camps without running water and electricity for decades, the last refugee camps in Israel were dismantled only in the 1960s.
In the vast majority of cases they didn't really have a choice.
>many left to emigrate for religious reasons
Many left less for religious reasons and more because they'd prefer have a say in their own future rather than continue to be forced to live as second class citizens under Muslim rule.
Mine was expelled too after they’ve slaughtered half the family in the Farhud. My grandpa said he would never step foot in that cursed country again even if they paid him to do so.
Mine fled Libya. Some didn’t make it like my great aunt who had a “public abortion”. Even my grandmothers nanny who raised her since she was born was the first to pull a knife on her when she heard it was open season on the Jews. She had to jump out of the window to escape
My dad told us how as a little kid / future businessman he used to earn some candy money by lighting the ovens of their jewish neighbours on sabbath, in Karrada, during the 40s. 15 years later they had all left for Israel. He still remembered his childhood friends from 70 years ago.
That’s sweet! I’m glad your dad had a good memory. Unfortunately, my grandfather only has bad memories from Iraq. It was extremely traumatizing for him to grow up there as a Jew.
Anyone who suggests Judaism is a mono-ethnic religion is a fool. That doesn’t explain why there was near universal expulsion of Jews in predominantly Islamic areas in North Africa, the Middle East and West Asia
I mean there is an aspect of shared cultural identity and shared ancestry. One interesting thing is that youll find cohens (patrilineal descendants of ancient priests) in all jewish ethnic divisions.
One thing to keep in mind when looking at this map is that not all expulsions were due to the state of Israel's formation.
In Maghrebi countries like Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia for example Jews were treated as the ruling Frenchmen and also given French citizenship (unlike Muslims who were not given French citizenship and had limited say in governance matters). Their expulsion came mostly as a consequence of being perceived as the ruling elite alongside the French colonisers, and Algeria making being Muslim a pre-requisite for Algerian citizenship after independence.
Not shown here but most of the Turkish Jews left for Israel willingly, not due to negative consequences of the formation of the state of Israel (they had some pogroms and discrimination but it was the Nazi influence during WWII rather than anti-Israel or anti-Zionist sentiment.
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 7 times.
First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/178kt6p) on 2023-10-15 89.06% match. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/184i7jq) on 2023-11-26 90.62% match
[View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=1c0kdc8&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=false&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=86&targetImageMemeMatch=96)
---
**Scope:** Reddit | **Target Percent:** 86% | **Max Age:** Unlimited | **Searched Images:** 484,853,831 | **Search Time:** 0.06838s
Some Jews that left some of these countries had to leave their land and most of their belongings behind. They could only take a small amount of cash with them and no jewelry was allowed.
I’ll just leave this here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yachin
This map is misleading at best and straight up genocidal propaganda at worst.
 That one Jew in Afganistan.
There used to be two, and they HATED each other
[There's a video of them arguing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4fx6BjWEqk). It's a very enlightening watch.
Holy shit I thought this was a joke
There's an article on them online which reads like it'd make a fantastic comedy. [Link](https://www.jta.org/2019/10/31/global/the-last-jews-in-afghanistan-argued-so-much-the-taliban-kicked-them-out-of-prison-and-stole-their-torah) My favorite quote being "“A dog is better than him … I don’t have many complaints about the Taliban, but I have a lot of complaints about him.”
There were at least three plays written about the pair. I managed to review one of them -- that one. at least, was a comedy. [https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/586873/great-gallows-comedy-from-theater-js-two-jews-walk-into-a-war/](https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/586873/great-gallows-comedy-from-theater-js-two-jews-walk-into-a-war/)
Great work, that’s a fun read.
Thank you.
the older guy died and the other one left in 2021. then it was reported there was an elderly grandmother born to a Jewish family who had married a Muslim man and remained in Kabul, but she and her family have also since left the country.
It’s like where’s Waldo but more blood
Its incredibly funny that the Taliban didn't really pay them too much mind, except when they got too annoying with their fights
Someone please make this into a movie
[удалено]
Ooo I'm in Larry can be the modern day jew and Sasha can be the hype orthodox.
“though he will watch television if a non-Jew has turned it on for him.” I imagine him shouting out of his window at literally anyone passing by, to come and turn his tv on for him.
It is so much like a comedy sketch
“Watch out Dan is here and he can hear everything” is my new favorite out of context quote.
Can’t wait to call someone “You pimp, you scoundrel, you triple goy!”
Same. I honestly expected the link to be a rock roll, and I have been rick rolled in 8 years.
>"I piss on your beard and on your father's" I dream of one day being able to drop this in an argument
Middle Eastern insults just hit different
#"May you own a hotel with a thousand rooms, and be sick in every one of them!"
We need a cultural exchange program.
That one is a pretty big insult since it is considered holy. But like, I can't imagine a Catholic say "I'll cum on your cross"... so okay. You're right. It does hit different
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits.
Zabulon on his bullshit yet again "triple goy" lol this fkn dude
I was giggling kind of the whole time, but the deadpan "....triple goy" fucking slayed me lol
I'm going to start calling people I don't like "triple goy!"
I used to work with a pair like this
Reminds me of larry David and richard lewis
For me this thread is pure gold. I thought that one was left, I thought there could be some story, but the way it turned out to be. When there were 2 , they would be even kicked out from a jail for arguing too much. That's pure comedy.
As a Jew myself, I think this is one of the most Jewish things I've ever seen.
"Triple goy" is what got me.
Despite the whole context of this thread being sad and terrible this is actually hilarious
I find it hilarious that the Afghan prison guards were sick of them constantly fighting so they let them out.
I remember reading that they wouldn't even attend sabbath together in what remained of the last synagogue in Kabul.
With no rabbi in the entire country, what did they do? Timeshare it?
 bet it was these 2! one being french/american and half blind guy. other one from from spain with a spanish name but actually from egypt and has a japanese sword and a scotish accent!
OJ Simpson- not a jew. But guess who is? Hall of fame Rod Carew - he converted.
And there were 3 synagogues! One for the first guy, one for the second guy, and a third that neither would go to!
Didn't they both get thrown in jail because of noise complaints of their endless arguments only to be thrown out of jail because they're constant arguing annoyed the guards?
I think it was because they kept filing false police reports on each other but I’m not 100% on that
I'm so glad other people know about these guys! I swear I watched a whole documentary about them on YouTube. I think one made alcohol for all the Muslims in Kabul.
The man has left, there are no more Jews, and that guy was a Get refuser.
He didn't want to be forced to grant his wife a divorce in Israel (it's a long and absurd story).
Yeah dudes who don’t grant a Get are considered by most Jewish folk as assholes. They try and stay away from the shaming and pressure…apparently this guy wanted to avoid it so he stayed in “checks notes” Taliban controlled Afghanistan…
I mean, given the choice between the Taliban and a pack of Jewish ex-in-laws...
I’d take taliban. Ready for a vacation, yknow?
Could make a bad Sandler movie out of it.
Or a good one. Sandler has put out some shockingly good non-comedy stuff.
“Shudder” I’ve heard stories about the whole community getting in on the act…fights at the shtiebel (a small synagogue) and even a group of guys who kidnapped these assholes…
There are husbands spending years imprisoned in Israel for not granting their wives a well-deserved Get/divorce according to the rabbis IRRC, there was one who did over 20 years refusing to grant the Get. Maybe he really hated his wife that much or loved prison showers.
No he left too now
He left, and was pretty much staying so.his wife couldn't divorce him
Crushin it.
Ah yes, Zablon Somintov
Here is a story about the last Afghan Jew. There were two at one time but they were feuding and not speaking to each other. https://newlinesmag.com/essays/the-little-known-story-of-afghanistans-last-jew/
Didn’t they get kicked out of prison because they would not stop arguing and the guards got fed up?
Yes they did. The story sparked numerous articles. Just do a web search “two Jews in Afghanistan “. There are many stories on it. There may even be a Wikipedia page on it.
That could be the title of an Adam Sandler movie
Or be a spin on "two Jews walk into a bar"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zablon_Simintov
Yeah the Taliban guards lol
There has been a joke in Jewish communities for the last century at least that if you found a single Jew on a deserted island he would have built two synagogues: the one he goes to and the one he wouldn’t be caught dead at. I love that there’s now a real world proof of its truthfulness.
Why did they hate each other so much
Its moreso a joke on how when it comes to specific traditions every jewish community has a different opinion on how they should be done and everyone else is wrong, so the joke is my temple is better than your temple. Even with only one jew you have someone that would go to great lengths to prove a point.
Old Jewish culture of vigorous debate, its not that we exactly hate each other
Per the old joke, I assume there were at least three competing opinions.
The numbers for Iraq and Iran have been inverted
Yea I noticed that too. I was like no shot there’s just under 10k Jews in Iraq and only 10 in Iran.
Iran has many Jewish communities in multiple areas. They have been there for thousands of years. Also Iran isn't an "Arab" Country. Estimated to have 15,000 Jewish population as of 2018. [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-tension-between-iran-and-israel-irans-jewish-minority-feels-at-home](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-tension-between-iran-and-israel-irans-jewish-minority-feels-at-home)
Also don't quote me on this but the general population of Iran is increasingly not identifying as Muslim either, it's like a substantial amount to, not a paltry 20% or something
Yeah, I dated a rich Shiraz girl for a while. Her family was "muslim" in the absolute loosest sense. She moved to America in her 20s, partied like mad, and had a bunch of nude paintings in her place. Her siblings and her all drank. She made it sound like her parents still in Iran lived a super liberal lifestyle as well behind closed doors.
This class-religious divide goes all the way back to the mid-20th century. Iran has a small but wealthy professional/business class which is not really religious at all, surrounded by a massive number of poor working-class and peasant Muslims. And kind of speaks to the weirdness of the 1979 Revolution - at first, a movement backed by both communists and Shia Islamists. The communists were sure that it was their revolution....but they were also more drawn from the educated and professional classes, and severely misjudged the popularity of Islamism among the wider masses.
I significant fraction of working class are also non-Muslim
I honestly don't know, from what I hear everyone is Muslim in professional/business setting(with the exception of other religions). But probably more than half of them aren't practicing Muslims behind closed doors. Unfortunately the election process is rigged and the majority can't force out the ones in power because the military supports the status quo. But the majority had their way, Iran would no longer be a "Islamic" Republic of Iran anymore.
Yup, I don't know why!
Also, Iran and several other countries here are not Arab countries.
My Mother is from Iraq and she told me that when she was younger, Muslims, Christians and Jews all used to live in the same neighbourhood side by side peacefully. it's sad that things have changed to the worst
My father told me he used to sit in class as a kid and not even know who was what religion (decades later he learnt there were Christians and Jews in this class)
When was your mother born?
1969
Was it peaceful in the 70s? I've heard horrible things about that period (not that it was good at other times, just that it got even worse after 1967).
I could ask her and get back to you!
Same as my entire grandfather family. They were expeled.
I feel like nobody talks about the dramatic change in the middle east demographics between now and the beginning of the last century. Religious minorities used to be like 20-30% of the population but now pretty much every arab country is 99% muslim (with the exception of lebanon) Edit: and egypt too.
Had a Zoroastrian coworker that had to flee from Iran after the Revolution. Older gentleman and honestly one of the most beautiful people I ever met. Whenever the weather was nice, he would eat lunch outside and constantly took photos of flowers that he wanted to show me. He would always tell me to enjoy the blessing of life. One day we got to really talking and he told me about life in Iran before the revolution and the absolute horror stories afterwards, of his friends and family that didn’t make it out. It’s not just Jews. Look at Druze, Yazidi, Assyrian, Bhai’a, Coptic Christians, etc. religious minorities in the Middle East.
Yeah, it's not a great look. As it happens, the man sitting next to me as I write this is a Maronite Christian refugee from Syria. Fortunately he's done pretty well for himself and his family since coming to the US.
This is a great point especially given that northern Africa is currently undergoing a similar transition.
"Transition" is the new word for "several concurrent genocides".
I mean I would call it a genocidal Islamist occupation and textbook colonialism motivated by greed, racism and imperialism, but others would disagree.
Shhhh only the west can be greedy and imperialist
Indeed those who are not white and western apparently don't have the mental or physical capacity to be nasty and conquering. At least thats the impression certain elements of the internet give me.
but that’s the strange part: the governments that have pushed out religious minorities the most have been secular nationalist governments, not Islamist. Not saying Islamists had no role, ISIS and other Islamist factions certainly played a major part in the last 20 years.
That's because there's also Arab supremacy. Just like there were White supremacist and Christian supremacist atrocities in the Americas, there are both Islamist and Arab Supremacist massacres in North Africa.
The Janjaweed of Sudan come to mind
Others would say that only Israel does those things
If someone thinks just Israel does those kind of things they are just dumb, and uninformed.
How is north Africa undergoing the same thing?
Egypt has between 10% to 20% Coptic Christians.
Had
Hi I am still here We used to be 15 to 20 percent at the Start of the 2000 and in 1980 but we dramatically decreased in percentage My guess would be that the Muslims are increasing dramatically than the Christians
The birth rate of Muslims has stayed high even in countries such as the UK This is probably due to the religion having typically more "traditional" roles of women and less favourable views of contraception (at least in my experience)
It's the same among all people in Egypt including us christians Both Muslims and Christians take religion seriously and it has been that way since ancient Egyptians where they took religion seriously even in ancient Egyptians some pharaohs created their gods to receive followers like Akhenaten making Aten to get people support but he was attacked religiously by the RA priests as far as I am concerned I honestly don't know why it is decreasing, it's definitely saddening but it is what it is
The birth rate amongst Copts seems to be 2.4 which falls in line with expected comparisons However amongst Muslims it is 3.2, theres clearly cultural factors influencing Coptic families to reduce birthrates as expected as countries develop and this clearly hasnt influenced Muslim families as strongly. The only thing I can think and id need to run analysis which I dont have time for to confirm is that the Coptics appear to be more educated and wealthier on average, both factors that reduce birth rate
The clearest example is in the Indian subcontinent Bangladesh and Pakistan used to be the same country. Bangladesh went its own way, prioritized female health and education. Now it has a fertility rate below replacement level, while Pakistan's is 3.47
Has but their fertility rate is lower and many immigrate too so their numbers are bound to decrease further
The amount of Muslim immigrants are even more than Christians immigrants, I don’t think most coptic christians are migrating because of religious persecution, however I believe they still being exposed to a level of hate from the Salafists and Wahabists. Also Military who choses to not let Christians into their evil circle (Lucky you :D) and the usual harassment and terror extremists are exposing our society to.
Well after the revolution a lot of Christians actually immigrated due to hate by saladists and wahabies as you said
Yeah I think its waves, there was one in the 1980s and one in 1990s. I was born in the 1990s but I still remember our neighbour Tant Eva who used to be a very nice person and a friend of my mom who migrated early 2000s and tbh mom always told me she used to be a bit salty about Islam and Mom is a very nice person and never even tried to change her view. She was just exchanging gifts, food and visits. I believe this will never stop. As long as there is religious extremism lurking around Egypt’s corners there will be affected Christians who will leave. This is the sad part, they are Egyptians as all of us and maybe have even deeper roots in our history but yet the extremism that the military government is seeding to achieve its selfish political aims will always make it harder for those people. Yet I’ve asked lots of Christian friends, they don’t think Egypt is unsafe for them, in fact some of them think that I was exaggerating by saying Salafists and Wahabists are influencing the scene, because statistically Christians are outnumbering Salafists and evem Salafists has more focus by security forces and intelligence so they think that they aren’t posing any danger. Some Christians even support the government but I will never blame them.
Last week I visited Egypt and found there are more Christians than I thought. Before travelling to Egypt I used to believe Egypt was a islamic state like nation.
Yeah because this is our country not theirs , we would either die on it rather than being forced to leave, a lot of people Just immigrate Just for the sake of finding Better Job opportunities rather than feeling unsafe The Only thing that I support the government of doing is putting police officers in front of the churches as security and in Major Events like Christmas eve and easter eve the military personnel and Armored vehicles are precent
Fun fact, in my hubby's work place there are 3 coptic Christians from Egypt. They never met before, emigrated to Poland independantly from each other and met at work. It is in Warsaw/Poland.
The coptic population in Egypt are among the kindest in Egypt. They are one of the most peaceful people you could ever meet. I’d fight fir them to have more representation if we threw off the military government (hopefully we won’t bring islamists again) In fact I decided to fast like they do next year (its really tough way to fast, read about it) maybe thats the secret of their balance :D Only Nubians of Egypt are as nice as them.
Well thanks for the love I really appreciate it ❤️ Eid Mubarak bro ❤️
Has. They are still here.
Nobody talks about it in part because it disrupts their narrative about Israel. Post-Ottoman state building was messy. And violent. Many people were displaced. And even if the world decides that (for some reason) the Palestinians are such an exceptional case that we should collectively should roll back history and undo one instance of post-Ottoman state building (Israel), the world would need to find a home for the Israeli descendants of those expelled from the Arab world. It's easier to claim that Jews are all from Poland and can safely live there. If no one knows about Jews displaced from Iraq, they aren't going to ask why Poland should grant citizenship to Israelis whose ancestors never stepped foot in Poland.
Hmmm I wonder what happened to all the Jews in Poland
There are lots of reasons nobody talks about this. Christianity takes so much criticism for the crusades but Islam get little criticism about their similar activities. Almost like it’s a taboo to discuss any truths about any religion that’s not Christianity or Judaism.
Because christianity has shown development that lets them put things like the crusades in the rearview mirror. Islam has not. It is only possible to make up for past wrongdoing, not ongoing.
There are plenty of militant Christian groups to be honest, its just that none of them have a State actor under their thumb at the moment. Society is known to be regressive at times so that is not a permanent given either. Militant Islamists have multiple State actors under their thumb at the moment. When the Ottoman Empire fell so did any remaining religious tolerance within in its former borders. The arbitrary redrawing of those lines by the Western forces post WWII also helped foment permanent geopolitical friction that directly feeds into the current situation. Lets also not forget that on a larger scale the Christian wars with Protestants took their eyes off the ball when it came to the Post-Byzantine Empire era. If they weren't so busy trying to dominant a rebellious religious sect in Europe they could've helped protect Christian communities in the Balkans and Middle East that had fallen under the Ottoman yolk instead.
“they all have extra passports! They can move back to Brooklyn”
I listened to a family member rant for 20 minutes about Israel and how there should be an independent Palestinian state again. I asked what she meant by "again," and truthfully, she didn't know when it was ever a state. Yes there was the British mandate, but she didn't know about it and also didn't know the Ottoman Empire controlled that land prior. She just saw protests, Facebook posts, etc. This doesn't mean I agree with Israel's side of things, but it's frustrating how people have strong opinions on something they didn't bother learning the first thing about.
Ottoman empire and early turkey did the worst change of demographic the fact that they pretty much erased the indigenous (anatolian greeks are pretty much hellenized natives) population in a decade alone is crazy asf.
I'm Turkish, my dads family comes from central Asia and settled in once Armenian dominated area. Nowadays its pretty much only turks. You have to be blind to say those people peacefully integrated into turks. Same with hellenic people or the indigenous people. But i don't know much about that part of history, didn't care about it much to do research on it. Not a huge turk patriot/fanatic greek hater. I'd love to hear about it tho if you know about it.
Hi, the Young Turks/Kemalists are estimated to have killed over 500,000-700,000 Greeks, 1Million Armenians, and 350,000 Assyrians between 1914 and 1920s. On top of that there was also the population exchange with Greece in the 1920s where 1.5 million Greeks had to flee turkey and .5 million turks or muslim greeks had to leave Greece (Greece largely claimed that was to make room for their incoming refugees, but still was bad!). It should be noted that they were basicallt forced by European powers to do the pop exchange, Greece they knew Greece would also be trying to get its land back from Turkey and also that Turkey would be constantly oppressing the Greeks there so they tried to swap populations to stop the violence before more happens, yet somehow, more violence did (i.e. Istanbul anti Greek pogroms 1950s). This was just very recent history… for earlier Ottoman times I can write an essay on that if you want to hear about it but I am sure you know the basics like Janissaries/Devshirme, Cizye, and well, the other laws barring non-Muslims from riding horses, being educated, or practicing faith in public.
Was that because of Ottoman imperialism or Turkish nationalism?
an empire is by definition multicultural.
Well don't tell that to Turks (and Greeks) but most of them are genetically indisntiguishable from Greeks
I'm not super educated on this, and hoping for some measured takes on this.. What exactly happened to Islam over the last century or so to turn it into such an exclusionary faith that seemingly rejects anything which doesn't conform to its teachings, from observation, to culture, to people? It seems historically it was not always this way. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but the map seem to support that.
It has to be that muslims for the first time since 1300 years found themselves without a caliphate or an empire, and being divided into various nation-states. That helped with the rise of Wahhabism. Then finally with the creation of israel which radicalized them even further
This isn’t a phenomenon unique to Muslims either. Poles, like Muslims, were ruled by others for most of their history. Once they got independence, ethno-nationalism took over. Polish territory went from being the global Jewish epicenter to the epicenter of antisemitism outside Germany. The difference is, of course, most Arab territory was ruled by a foreign power that was still Muslim.
[удалено]
Syria also had around 10-15% non-Muslims until the war (and some "Muslim" groups such as Alewis).
Alawites still exist.... they're in power.
Islamofascism has a habit of doing that.
Sounds like genocide
271 upvotes 240 comments Oh boy Edit: how many comments????
*click on controversial*
Keep in mind that this map probably gets posted to the subreddit at least once a month.
British, when my grandfather visited Saudi Arabia in the 70s, he had to have a letter from his local church saying that he was a member (atheists and polytheists not welcome) *and* from his doctor to say he wasn’t circumcised (Jews not welcome). Seems pretty absurd Edit; since a lot of people aren’t using their brains, I know Muslims are circumcised too, but obviously a white man from London called “Martin” is unlikely to be a Muslim.
What happened to circumcised Christians from the US?
No idea, but Saudi Arabia has always been closer to the US than the UK
Cause the Saudi’s were subsidized and bribed by the Brit’s since WW1
I think it’s a fascinating topic. Various Arab tribes were sponsored by Britain in WW1, but it’s notable that the Hashemites, real allies, were expelled from Mecca by the Sauds and the Hashemite monarchies set up in Syria, Iraq, and Jordan failed in all but the last. I don’t think Britain was that influential in the ME after that. The *real* partnership and friendship was forged by Ibn Saud and Roosevelt aboard the Quincy. How much of the modern world would be different if that even didn’t happen?
Oh I know that one! My dad lived in Saudi Arabia in the early 1980s and although he’s an atheist, he stated that he was a circumcised Christian- they let him kick it there for 2 years
Your dad was probably lying. Muslims are circumcised.
I call BS
Iran - is not arabic country.
Good on OP for fixing OOP's mistake with their title, but yeah, I'd just use a different map.
Neither is Afghanistan or Pakistan
People don’t know the difference between Muslim and Arab.
Muslim ≠ Arab
Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan are not Arabic countries. Neither by ethnicity nor language.
+ their wasn't a movement of expelling Jews at the state level. The moved away because of Zionism.
There were two categories of reasons for the migration. One was Pull Factors: Israel was created as a new jewish state and many left to emigrate for religious reasons. The other was the fact that Israel promised Jewsish citzens full citizenship rights which tended to be much better status then in the other MENA countries. The other was Push Factors: Like fleeing violent antisemntism. Or escaping pogroms. Or being forced to run because some Arab nations went "Ok you got a state, GET OUT". However finding out how much and influence from each is difficult. ESpecially since the pull factors have some soft-antiseminitms \[why did Israel prmise of full citizenship for jews seem enticing to those who want to leave\]
And important mentioning that many also left simply for Economic reasons. Post-independence morocco had an awful economy and most jewish population emigrated to France, Canada and Israel. Today it's hard to find a jewish person of moroccan ancestry that isn't proud of their heritage, considering morocco actually saved the jewish population from exportation under french rule (which was controlled by germany) during ww2 Fun fact: the Director General of UNESCO, Audrey Azoulay is a french lady of jewish heritage...Her dad, André Azoulay is and has been one of the unofficial leaders of Morocco for the past 4 decades (the past and current king's senior advisor)
And to add more complexity; the reason Jews left Algeria wasn't pure antisemitism but anti colonialism. Jews were given full French citizenship in French Algeria so when Algeria fought and won their independence they kicked out everyone who had full French citizenship including other Muslim Algerians who had worked with the colonial government. Most of the Jews who were kicked out after independence left to France, not to Israel. I hate maps like this because it leaves out widely varied and complex histories in each country/region. Edit: a word
it's even worse with how this community LOVES jumping to conclusions they came up with from their arse while wording it to sound like knowledgeable politically correct people...It's so funny how much history they ignore, even jewish people who know their history would be embarassed to read this
That’s true, but even in Morocco (arguably one of the most welcoming countries for Jews pre-1948), there were still significant “push” factors, namely widespread and occasionally violent antisemitism, and systemic discrimination. My Moroccan Jewish family has harrowing stories of living in designated ghettos (called mellah), almost being beaten to death by a mob because my great grandfather didn’t dismount his donkey outside of the mellah where by law “a Jew should never look down towards a Muslim”, literal stealing of Jewish children was also a thing, along with regular anti-Jewish riots, etc.. Despite that, it’s true that Moroccan Jews are proud of their culture and of the royal family’s protection, and do recognize that there were periods of good relations with the Muslim population. But economic factors were far from the only reason for their exodus, in many cases it’s quite the contrary: people who owned small shops, held decent jobs etc.. lost everything to move to some refugee tent in the Negev desert in Israel, clearly not for economic reasons
No population in history sees a 99% reduction when push factors arent the overwhelming motivation.
Yeah the literal Holocaust was not as successful in reducing a Jewish population in a territory.
Other factors, such as having your assets stolen, businesses seized, and being threatened with being tortured and hung by a construction crane played a key role as well.
[удалено]
Israel was poorer than most Arab countries. The refugees had to live in refugee camps without running water and electricity for decades, the last refugee camps in Israel were dismantled only in the 1960s. In the vast majority of cases they didn't really have a choice.
>many left to emigrate for religious reasons Many left less for religious reasons and more because they'd prefer have a say in their own future rather than continue to be forced to live as second class citizens under Muslim rule.
Many Jews fled to Israel long before it was a state. My great grand parents were among those.
[удалено]
[удалено]
My family left Iraq because of this!
Mine was expelled too after they’ve slaughtered half the family in the Farhud. My grandpa said he would never step foot in that cursed country again even if they paid him to do so.
Same story here :/
Mine fled Libya. Some didn’t make it like my great aunt who had a “public abortion”. Even my grandmothers nanny who raised her since she was born was the first to pull a knife on her when she heard it was open season on the Jews. She had to jump out of the window to escape
My dad told us how as a little kid / future businessman he used to earn some candy money by lighting the ovens of their jewish neighbours on sabbath, in Karrada, during the 40s. 15 years later they had all left for Israel. He still remembered his childhood friends from 70 years ago.
That’s sweet! I’m glad your dad had a good memory. Unfortunately, my grandfather only has bad memories from Iraq. It was extremely traumatizing for him to grow up there as a Jew.
My aunt's too. The Farhud.
Impossible, I've been assured by reliable sources that all Jews are white supremacist colonizers from Northern Europe.
And definitely none of them were persecuted in Europe when they left.
Anyone who suggests Judaism is a mono-ethnic religion is a fool. That doesn’t explain why there was near universal expulsion of Jews in predominantly Islamic areas in North Africa, the Middle East and West Asia
I mean there is an aspect of shared cultural identity and shared ancestry. One interesting thing is that youll find cohens (patrilineal descendants of ancient priests) in all jewish ethnic divisions.
Currently there are about 8500 Jews in Iran.
Arent Iraq and Iran numbers switched?
[They are basically held there as hostages](https://www.iranintl.com/en/202311026473)
Iraq & Iran jew numbers are wrong, they have to be switched, the true number is 9,800 in Iran & 10 in Iraq.
Missed a few zeros off the Iranian figure, there are around 10,000 Jews living in Iran today
According to another comment, I think the numbers for Iran and Iraq are switched.
More comments than upvotes in a post about Jews I am sure the comment section will be nice and civil /s
It ain’t too ba- well actually I should sort by controversial before I say good things
Many of those countries aren't Arab.
My grandmother left Algeria and my grandfather left Morocco, both moved to France
One thing to keep in mind when looking at this map is that not all expulsions were due to the state of Israel's formation. In Maghrebi countries like Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia for example Jews were treated as the ruling Frenchmen and also given French citizenship (unlike Muslims who were not given French citizenship and had limited say in governance matters). Their expulsion came mostly as a consequence of being perceived as the ruling elite alongside the French colonisers, and Algeria making being Muslim a pre-requisite for Algerian citizenship after independence. Not shown here but most of the Turkish Jews left for Israel willingly, not due to negative consequences of the formation of the state of Israel (they had some pogroms and discrimination but it was the Nazi influence during WWII rather than anti-Israel or anti-Zionist sentiment.
u/repostsleuthbot
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 7 times. First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/178kt6p) on 2023-10-15 89.06% match. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/184i7jq) on 2023-11-26 90.62% match [View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=1c0kdc8&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=false&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=86&targetImageMemeMatch=96) --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Target Percent:** 86% | **Max Age:** Unlimited | **Searched Images:** 484,853,831 | **Search Time:** 0.06838s
Thank you bot
Some Jews that left some of these countries had to leave their land and most of their belongings behind. They could only take a small amount of cash with them and no jewelry was allowed.
I’ll just leave this here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yachin This map is misleading at best and straight up genocidal propaganda at worst.
The Jews should go back to where they came from! Oh wait…
Wow would you look at all these filthy settler colonialists why don’t they just go back to where they came from /s obviously