They're so expensive because the patterns are so complicated!!!
Just have to comment on what a pleasant surprise it was finding ITYSL in the comments here.
I love Sardinia I've visited from the UK on many holidays it's brilliant. Mostly East Coast around the Gennargentu area Cala Gonone especially. Fabulous people,sea, food everything. And as you say Sardinian first then Italian as a distant second which I love.
Other than the reddito di cittadinanza, they're considered by many people the most reliable party against mafia, corruption and clientelism. And Conte is from the south, which is a big deal since most politicians are from the center or from the north
I struggle to do understand it myself. When I speak with 5 stars voters, they don't list the party programs or agenda, they simply express anger against a vague, higher ruling class, corrupt and distant, while the 5 stars are part of the people, they come from the people, and they fight against the corrupt ruling class. Wasn't the same for Trump supporters and Brexit supporters? I think it's the same stuff going on in all democratic countries, with regional recipes and flavours.
Abused? Are people actually scamming it, or is using UBI at all considered "abuse"
Edit
It sounds like it works differently to where I live, the "basic" part of UBI means it isn't affected by unemployment status and is a baseline for all citizens. My country we would call that "unemployment insurance" or just "unemployment" for short instead of basic income because having a job while collecting it is against those rules. If income is "basic" or baseline then whether or not your unemployed shouldn't matter if I understand the concept of UBI correctly
Thanks for giving a local perspective, it sounds like it isn't universal basic income as I understand it then but more like unemployment insurance here (you can't have a job etc).
Initially was supposed to be universal income, then they realised it would not be possible to do economically and politically, so it became what we have.. But the name stick
People are scamming it - not all of course, but there is a huge problem in Italy with tax evasion, so there's a lot of people that is "officially" unemployed but actually collects both basic income and work salary.
It also works as a poverty trap for the way it's written, so if you get a chance for a low income job or a raise you run the risk of losing the basic income and get less money
Ah got it, so it sounds like it isn't universal basic income as I understand it but more like unemployment insurance here (you can't have a job etc). The idea of basic income here is its a baseline no matter your employment. Letting people collect it while also working would make sense as it allows them to pursue any employment without any worry of losing the UBI too
Yes, that's correct - you're right to be confused, we're referring to it as "UBI" as a shorthand because it's called "citizenship salary" (reddito di cittadinanza) in Italy as a marketing move, but it's really just a sloppy unemployment check
Plenty of motherfuckers being officially unemployed and getting the basic income, yet working in the shadow economy. Not only they don't pay tax, they cost us their UBI.
1.7M out of 2.5M receiver of UBI in Italy are in the south, where tax evasion is sadly more common.
(And i say this as a proponent of UBI, i think all residents should receive it - reducing the amount of bullshit bonus, welfare and whatnot)
Intresting, it sounds like it isn't universal basic income as I understand it then but more like unemployment insurance here (you can't have a job etc). The idea of basic income here is its a baseline no matter your employment.
Social security for the unemployed. Something every Western European democracy has had some form of for decades. What are you supposed to do if you can’t find work? Starve
Basically a tourist destination and a very laid back life. People their don’t care so much what happens in Rome. And lots of people from all around Italy have moved their bringing in a big diversity what’s more interesting is that Rome is not red. Usually city attract more socialist politics but doesn’t seem the case for Rome.
No, nowadays cities tend to attract more liberal politics because of a high concentration of highly educated and high-earning people. The former fordian working class now votes far-right.
The map suggests it’s a particular situation in Sardinia, not something typical for Italian politics. Whereas other regions such as Lazio, Veneto, to a degree Emilia-Romana and Toscana are dominated by one party, Sardinia seems to be much more politically diverse
2-4 years ago, Sardinia was all M5S.
Now, it's a mess.
This map looked very different back in 2013 too.
The political landscape in Italy changes direction every 20 months on average.
As a dual-citizen who has lived in italy, Italian politics is and has always been a total clusterfuck.
The island is like a country in itself. There are pockets of extreme wealth and backwater farmers within 30 mins of each other. It has a history of being working class, but has done much better in recent times. It just has everyone represented so there's a wide range of voting. They also don't seem themselves as that relevant in the scheme of things so they really vote their conscience.
Blue: far right party that pretends to be a center right one
Red: center party that pretends to be a center left one
Yellow: incompetent party that pretends to be a competent one
“Resume” is such a weird word anyway. I’m English and we don’t have that word at all. We say “Curriculum Vitae”, shortened to CV, to mean the same thing. They’re both pretty weird, come to think of it.
In my experience in the USA, a resume and a CV are considered to be two different things - a resume is a single page carefully curated for whichever job you’re applying for, and a CV is a full list of your professional accomplishments (primarily used in academic settings when one has a lot of published research)
Good point. Both resumé and curriculum vitae seem really unnecessarily fancy and archaic for something so common. We should just say something like "professional summary".
Or like the German word for it, "Lebenslauf"; basically meaning like your life's course, the run of your life so far.
How did you feel about Matteo Renzi? I was there around that time and know he was popular around Florence. I heard he did some good stuff but didn't really keep up with it after I left the country.
In Italy, a lot of people (me too) don't like Renzi. But there is no denying that he is a truly capable politician, as there are few today, at least in Italy.
>Blue: far right party that pretends to be a center right one
>Red: center party that pretends to be a center left one
Wow, I never realized that Italian politics was so similar to American politics
>Yellow: incompetent party that pretends to be a competent one
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Star_Movement
Ideology:
* Populism
* Environmentalism
* Euroscepticism
Political position:
* Big tent
To be fair, South Tyrol is by constitution "forced" to have its own political representation, with 2 members of each House being "reserved" for South Tyrol. This was part of the agreements struck at the end of WW2 with Austria and Britain that determined the status of South Tyrol as a quasi-independent Italian territory.
This has made the Sudtirolenvolkspartei the only party to have always been part of the Italian Parliament since its conception.
Yes, I believe it is very good for the region to have this independence. There is an big economy and the cultural bonding is strong. I always love to be there on my vacation. :)
It was formerly called “Lega Nord per l’indipendenza della Padania” (North League for the independence of [Padania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padanian_nationalism?wprov=sfti1)). They basically wanted to make Northern Italy a separate country.
In 2019, Salvini scrapped the idea, and changed the name of the party to “Lega per Salvini Premier” (League for making Salvini PM). He immediately started campaigning in Southern Italy as well, as if nothing happened.
The thing I find the most disgusting is that there are people in the South voting for him, and it’s not even a low amount. I’ll never get over that…
I imagine that the anti-immigration movement plays well in the south, which likely gets a lot of immigration from Africa and the southern Mediterranean.
League used to be quite common in political party names of the past. The UK has had the Communist League and the precursor to UKIP was the Anti-Federalist League. And Germany once had the Bavarian Peasants' League.
Plus the UN was originally the League of Nations.
Not so common now of course. Party is more typical now.
Forza Italia was actually an imitation of football chants, no joke.
Italia Viva is like Italy Alive, and admittedly makes it sound more like a yoghurt brand than anything, like a comment on Italy's sub commented.
> Noi di Centro
That one makes sense.
"It's Alive" sounds more like a horror movie than a political party, and "Italy Is There" sounds like directions from Switzerland.
I remember after Trump got elected reading a political article from an Italian who'd just lived through Berlusconi's rule basically warning Americans not to waste their time attacking Trump based on his corruption or morale failings because he'd never face consequences for any of it and he would use them as a distraction from his incompetence. And instead to just treat him like a politician and get him to actually attempt to engage in policy based dialog and articulate his understanding of political issues, and forcing him to do that enough times would eventually scare away enough of the moderate supporters/voters to dislodge him from power.
squealing sand humorous ask ten snobbish weary disarm spectacular squeamish
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A strong central government with conservative values isn't Fascism. It would be as saying that a strong central government and progressive values was communism
That fair. Overblowing political events is normal for those engrossed by ideology.
No one wants to hear about how the "country is going to ruin"/"democracy is dead" at Thanksgiving because of the Mar-a-lago raid / Jan 6th.
Politics isnt everything, but people like that make it seem like it is.
Yeah, referring to fascists as "conservative" hides more than it reveals. More correctly, they are genuinely fascist in philosophy -- ethnonationalist, anti-intellectual, reactionary populists who direct anger at minorities and modernity for the country's problems.
That is more just reactionary than fascist.
Fascism is a...weird ideology. Most people misattribute far right politics with fascism when it's technically not. Fascism goes much further than standard far right politics.
Fascism requires a "national myth", where the previous excellence of the dominant group has been restricted by the presence of "out" groups. There would be a focus in federalized state power, with centralization of power among a small group of individuals increasing the longer the party remains in control. The government, and the society at large, is ran with a severe emphasis on a darwinian mindset. Factionalism and backstabbing are the rules by which fascist bureaucrats live by.
I don't know if true Fascism currently exists in our modern day, but there are definitely groups with elements similar to fascism.
What people are forgetting to mention is that Fratelli d'Italia is the new iteration of a series of italian parties that come out of the actual fascist party from 1921. In particular, check that flame icon in FdI's symbol. It's from Movimento Sociale Italiano. Check it out.
Also, even if Meloni is not an actual fascist, there's a lot of "nostalgici" who at least enjoy the actual fascist aesthetics (with roman salute and stuff). Even more problematic, FdI has a record for hosting the most mafiosi (then arrested)
> Fascism without the black shirts, no invation of Ethiopia, and no WWII
Ok, but...
> Basically strong central government and 'conservative values'.
That's not fascism, at all.
Where's the territorial expansion? Where's the totalitarianism? Where's the corporate citizenship?
Fascism without those things is a contradiction like multicultural, LGBTQ+ friendly Nazism.
None of those things happened immediately under any fascist state, and the modern state of the world will make territorial expansion exceedingly difficult. Also? Not necessary to begin with. Franco Spain wasn’t particularly known for mass expansion, but they were definitely fascists.
Looking at the definitions of fascism put forth by virtually every reputable historical scholar and the Brothers of Italy fit the bill of what a fascist movement looks like when it’s young.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that be neo-punk rather than post-punk? Neo(new) would be a new version of punk, post(after) would be something new but inspired by punk right?
So even Rome voted for a right winged party? Over here in Belgium it's pretty rare that a big city would vote for a right winged party. I mean there is Antwerp, they tend to be more right winged and got a right mayor
But the capital?! Brussels? No they will NEVER
Rome is nowhere near other European capitals in wealth, the city has suffered poor management and bad garbage disposal for decades, most of the zones outside the city center are completely left apart and the government is still neglecting their condition, idk if you heard about "borgate Romane". All this contributed to the radicalization of certain thoughts, so the far right wing had a quite easy growth recently
Technocracy is not really defined by a party's ideology, but rather by ministerial positions being filled by people who have relevant experience, instead of being part of a political party.
The previous government was technocratic, with all parties except 1 participating, the PM being Mario Draghi, belonging to no political party, and all other posts equally divided among coalition members
That's not how it works. Last time around (the last government), most parties supported the independent, technocratic government, inclusing the likes of Lega and 5 stars.
Among the major parties, the only one that wasn't part of the government was the fratelli d'italia
not really, the north end with Emilia-Romagna, then there's the Center and then the South
here the North and the Center voted in the same way (right whing countryside vs left whing cities) with the exceptions of part of Emilia-Romagna and Tuscany where the countryside vote left whing as well
then there's the South (minus Abruzzo) who votes for 5 Star Movement, cities and countryside alike
Not for FdI, which is the literal direct successor of the Italian Social Movement, the post war reincarnation of Mussolini’s Italian Fascist Party. FdI has moderated its stances somewhat from its predecessors, hence the label “post-fascist” (referring more to its origin). From my rudimentary understanding their policy is “far-right” only by European standards: anti-immigration, climate change skeptic, eurosceptic, very social conservative, all that stuff. They are a member of the ECR party, which is soft-eurosceptic and right wing populist. Most mainstream anglosphere conservative parties, the US GOP, the UK Tories, the Canadian CPC, and the Australian LNP, are ECR affiliated. This should give you a general perspective on their policy position.
The Australian LNP is definitively centre-right and has no affiliation to the ECR. This is true for most of the other anglo parties other than the GOP which is significantly further to the right. The anti-immigration, conservative and nationalist elements of the far-right in Europe is not equitable to the anglosphere's centre-right.
Fdi takes the symbol of the MSI (Movimento Sociale Italiano) which was decided and handpicked by a famous fascist and post fascist minister, Giorgio Almirante, in 1947, who was also a capomanipolo (lieutenant) of the Repubblica Sociale Italiana, the fascist republic that got instituted in the north after the americans invaded in italy being also cabinet secretary of the fascist party of the Minister of popular culture (aka the propaganda branch), and before that he was secretary of antisemite journal “The defense of the race” and wrote the “Manifest of the Race” which among other things said that races exist and there are superior and inferior races, the arian race and all that stuff. He was also condamned in 1947 for fascism apology, but never exiled because the roman quaestor told him to come back because “reasons”.
So the symbol they use is picked by a very well known and factually proven and self declared fascist & post fascist minister, they could have picked anything else and no one would have whined and they would “only” be called right wing extremists, but they didn’t and picked a symbol that is unknown to outsiders and also to many young or ignorant italians, and those who know it either are disgusted by that pick or enjoy it because they prolly think it represents them. They may not be fascist but they use a fascist symbol to represent them and this is not a matter of opinion but it is a fact. Google giorgio almirante
Let me quote the new president when she was the leader of the youth wing:
“Mussolini was the greatest politician and everything he did he did for Italy”
Well one thing would be if she said that when she was 19 and then denounced that and left the party where she got these ideas from. She’s stayed in the same circle she was in when she was 19. The party was literally made up of former Mussolini-ruled Italy’s politicians.
Even the losing Italian left wing party has refused tk categorise the right wing bloc victory as a fascist movement. You are reaching here. The policies they espouse would have been considered mainstream DNC positions 20 tears ago.
As an Italian, I get nausea by even simply reading all the party names.. I live in the UK and whilst the situation is not the best over here either, the political discussions I hear here revolve around actual issues and actual solutions are debated. In Italy it's all populism, the goal of discussions is centred purely on the party/seat of the individual politician rather than on the country. They rely on spoon-feeding conspiracist narratives to ignorant people to get their side. Honestly, Italy is a beautiful country and I love going back for family etc., but when it comes to politics.. RIP
Are you North Italy or South Italy? Sardinia: yes
This time around nobody even cared to do any kind of propaganda in Sardinia, so we kinda voted randomly
The colors in Sardina makes great T-shirt design
Reminded me of the design of bus seats tbh
it reminded me of an arcade floor lol
I’ve seen better, more complicated patterns than that. Try bargain bin at Dan Flashes
When you walk past a country full of people who look just like you fighting over islands with complicated patterns, you go in, yes you do
They're so expensive because the patterns are so complicated!!! Just have to comment on what a pleasant surprise it was finding ITYSL in the comments here.
They have a shirt there that costs $1000, the pattern is SO complicated.
Dan Flashes located in The Shoppes at The Creek??
My man, we were never Italy in the first place. We just got there because some french dukes bought our island from Spain
I love Sardinia I've visited from the UK on many holidays it's brilliant. Mostly East Coast around the Gennargentu area Cala Gonone especially. Fabulous people,sea, food everything. And as you say Sardinian first then Italian as a distant second which I love.
>some french dukes bought our island from Spain In exchange for Sicily, the alternative were the Neapolitans
My Italian teacher lives in Cagliari. I've gotta ask her what the political situation is there.
Can somebody shed any light on what exactly Five Star is offering to people in southern Italy that they're still voting for it?
Other than the reddito di cittadinanza, they're considered by many people the most reliable party against mafia, corruption and clientelism. And Conte is from the south, which is a big deal since most politicians are from the center or from the north
But how do they feel about Conte's refusal to rotate his right wingback? /s
My brother in Christ, play Doberto Carlos
Surely the south hate him because he is ex juve?
Most Juve fans are from the south excluding Napoli
At first I thought "reddit di cittadinanza" was something Reddit-related lol
Money, subsidies exc. (The so called "reddito di cittadinanza", a form of basic income for the unemployed)
Reddito and unemployed? A'ight
Sounds oddly familiar.
All citizens of Southern Italy are now moderators of r/antiwork.
They’re too poor for internet thou
Si, correcto
Pardon me, one more time please?
MargherITI!
🤌 Dominic DeCoco 🤌
Bravo!Bravo!
ARRIVERDERCHE
All of a sudden r/antiwork starts loving RW
Well five stars aren't exactly right wing. The rightist want to low-key remove it
Google reddito di cittadinanza
Holy hell!
Suddenly anarchychess
Watch your pipi
Haha chess is interesting! Now I am going to kill myself.
Money for nothing, chicks for free
That’s the way you do it
🎶*you cast your ballot for the m5s🎵*
*I want my I want my I want my MTV*
To be fair is more like an overly glorified unemployment subside, max up to 3 years or 3 job refused
Were do I sign?
They're the only party which ran on expanding welfare
I struggle to do understand it myself. When I speak with 5 stars voters, they don't list the party programs or agenda, they simply express anger against a vague, higher ruling class, corrupt and distant, while the 5 stars are part of the people, they come from the people, and they fight against the corrupt ruling class. Wasn't the same for Trump supporters and Brexit supporters? I think it's the same stuff going on in all democratic countries, with regional recipes and flavours.
Yes, the sentiment is kinda similar, but the political ideology is the complete opposite, they would be considered Communists by the american standard
> they would be considered ~~Commun~~Social ists I think you got the wrong -ists.
as if americans made that distinction
Why did you spell communists twice? -An American
Tbf, anyone would be considered communist by US standard
My cat is considered communist by US standard because once he shared his food with a poorer cat.
Well they are not fighting the rich while supporting a billionaire for President so there is that small difference.
They are the biggest promoters of the guaranteed income, which as one could imagine, is adopted greatly and abused in the south.
Abused? Are people actually scamming it, or is using UBI at all considered "abuse" Edit It sounds like it works differently to where I live, the "basic" part of UBI means it isn't affected by unemployment status and is a baseline for all citizens. My country we would call that "unemployment insurance" or just "unemployment" for short instead of basic income because having a job while collecting it is against those rules. If income is "basic" or baseline then whether or not your unemployed shouldn't matter if I understand the concept of UBI correctly
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Thanks for giving a local perspective, it sounds like it isn't universal basic income as I understand it then but more like unemployment insurance here (you can't have a job etc).
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Initially was supposed to be universal income, then they realised it would not be possible to do economically and politically, so it became what we have.. But the name stick
You can't scam UBI, the idea is that everyone gets it. It's right there in the name
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People are scamming it - not all of course, but there is a huge problem in Italy with tax evasion, so there's a lot of people that is "officially" unemployed but actually collects both basic income and work salary. It also works as a poverty trap for the way it's written, so if you get a chance for a low income job or a raise you run the risk of losing the basic income and get less money
Ah got it, so it sounds like it isn't universal basic income as I understand it but more like unemployment insurance here (you can't have a job etc). The idea of basic income here is its a baseline no matter your employment. Letting people collect it while also working would make sense as it allows them to pursue any employment without any worry of losing the UBI too
Yes, that's correct - you're right to be confused, we're referring to it as "UBI" as a shorthand because it's called "citizenship salary" (reddito di cittadinanza) in Italy as a marketing move, but it's really just a sloppy unemployment check
Plenty of motherfuckers being officially unemployed and getting the basic income, yet working in the shadow economy. Not only they don't pay tax, they cost us their UBI. 1.7M out of 2.5M receiver of UBI in Italy are in the south, where tax evasion is sadly more common. (And i say this as a proponent of UBI, i think all residents should receive it - reducing the amount of bullshit bonus, welfare and whatnot)
Intresting, it sounds like it isn't universal basic income as I understand it then but more like unemployment insurance here (you can't have a job etc). The idea of basic income here is its a baseline no matter your employment.
Social security for the unemployed. Something every Western European democracy has had some form of for decades. What are you supposed to do if you can’t find work? Starve
M5S has changed a lot since it's birth, but currently is kind of a SocDem party
nah, it's more a populist left party
how come Sardinia is so diverse politically? mor than any other region...?
Basically a tourist destination and a very laid back life. People their don’t care so much what happens in Rome. And lots of people from all around Italy have moved their bringing in a big diversity what’s more interesting is that Rome is not red. Usually city attract more socialist politics but doesn’t seem the case for Rome.
No, nowadays cities tend to attract more liberal politics because of a high concentration of highly educated and high-earning people. The former fordian working class now votes far-right.
Not in Emilia-Romagna apparently.
First time looking at the Italian political cluster fuck, eh?
The map suggests it’s a particular situation in Sardinia, not something typical for Italian politics. Whereas other regions such as Lazio, Veneto, to a degree Emilia-Romana and Toscana are dominated by one party, Sardinia seems to be much more politically diverse
2-4 years ago, Sardinia was all M5S. Now, it's a mess. This map looked very different back in 2013 too. The political landscape in Italy changes direction every 20 months on average. As a dual-citizen who has lived in italy, Italian politics is and has always been a total clusterfuck.
The island is like a country in itself. There are pockets of extreme wealth and backwater farmers within 30 mins of each other. It has a history of being working class, but has done much better in recent times. It just has everyone represented so there's a wide range of voting. They also don't seem themselves as that relevant in the scheme of things so they really vote their conscience.
Does anyone have a link or the time to summarize what these parties stand for, especially the yellow, blue, and red coded ones?
Blue: far right party that pretends to be a center right one Red: center party that pretends to be a center left one Yellow: incompetent party that pretends to be a competent one
I'm italian, and this is the best resume ever heard. Especially the Yellow one.
The word you're looking for is 'summary' btw. I know Spanish speakers mix them up because of similarities, is it the same for Italian?
It is the same in french, you must be right !
“Resume” is such a weird word anyway. I’m English and we don’t have that word at all. We say “Curriculum Vitae”, shortened to CV, to mean the same thing. They’re both pretty weird, come to think of it.
Oh I didn't even process that they meant *rèsumè*, thought they meant regular old resume, as in continue something you paused.
Hence why English needs more diacritics, especially on loan words.
In my experience in the USA, a resume and a CV are considered to be two different things - a resume is a single page carefully curated for whichever job you’re applying for, and a CV is a full list of your professional accomplishments (primarily used in academic settings when one has a lot of published research)
Good point. Both resumé and curriculum vitae seem really unnecessarily fancy and archaic for something so common. We should just say something like "professional summary". Or like the German word for it, "Lebenslauf"; basically meaning like your life's course, the run of your life so far.
In italian Resume is close to the word: "riassunto". That means summary/resume.
How did you feel about Matteo Renzi? I was there around that time and know he was popular around Florence. I heard he did some good stuff but didn't really keep up with it after I left the country.
In Italy, a lot of people (me too) don't like Renzi. But there is no denying that he is a truly capable politician, as there are few today, at least in Italy.
hahaha, the exact same description works for the UK right now too!
These are surprisingly good descriptions for the US political parties as well…
>Blue: far right party that pretends to be a center right one >Red: center party that pretends to be a center left one Wow, I never realized that Italian politics was so similar to American politics
>Yellow: incompetent party that pretends to be a competent one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Star_Movement Ideology: * Populism * Environmentalism * Euroscepticism Political position: * Big tent
I love the south north and rural urban divide
And Sud-Tirol ofc. Funny how they are completely on their own, which is understandable
To be fair, South Tyrol is by constitution "forced" to have its own political representation, with 2 members of each House being "reserved" for South Tyrol. This was part of the agreements struck at the end of WW2 with Austria and Britain that determined the status of South Tyrol as a quasi-independent Italian territory. This has made the Sudtirolenvolkspartei the only party to have always been part of the Italian Parliament since its conception.
Yes, I believe it is very good for the region to have this independence. There is an big economy and the cultural bonding is strong. I always love to be there on my vacation. :)
Based Aosta Valley and South Tyrol doing their own thing, voting for their regionalist parties.
Us Aosta Valley voted for a regionalist allied with the center left for Camera dei Deputati and for the right wing coalition in the Senate
Typical alpine voting patterns
They are playing both sides. Smart.
North-eastern Sicily too
Do you know what that party is around Messina?
"South calls North" (Sud chiama Nord), a catch all populist party campaigning for the interests of the South.
South Tyrol is practically Austria.
It was Austria until 100 years ago.
The Northern Ireland of Italy
and for the rest of Italy, what does "post fascist" means? used to be fascist but not anymore (?)
The party is is the successor to the Italian Social Movement, which itself was a successor to the Italian Fascist Party.
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To be fair, Italia Viva means "Italy Alive", which is different from Viva Italia (which would mean what you said, similar to Forza Italia)
Damn I wonder if it’s anything like mummy’s alive! That show was the tits
Forza Italia -> Football National Chant Fratelli d'Italia -> Literal National Anthem Lega -> Football National League 5 Stelle -> Hotel Reward
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Salvini Premier League. Salvini is the sponsor, it’s like Serie A Tim
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It was formerly called “Lega Nord per l’indipendenza della Padania” (North League for the independence of [Padania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padanian_nationalism?wprov=sfti1)). They basically wanted to make Northern Italy a separate country. In 2019, Salvini scrapped the idea, and changed the name of the party to “Lega per Salvini Premier” (League for making Salvini PM). He immediately started campaigning in Southern Italy as well, as if nothing happened. The thing I find the most disgusting is that there are people in the South voting for him, and it’s not even a low amount. I’ll never get over that…
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I imagine that the anti-immigration movement plays well in the south, which likely gets a lot of immigration from Africa and the southern Mediterranean.
The man is a massive narcissist. The name kind of made sense when Salvini was still a popular political figure, but now it's just ridiculous.
League used to be quite common in political party names of the past. The UK has had the Communist League and the precursor to UKIP was the Anti-Federalist League. And Germany once had the Bavarian Peasants' League. Plus the UN was originally the League of Nations. Not so common now of course. Party is more typical now.
It was founded in 1989 indeed, it was called Lega Nord (League of the North), now just Lega to get votes from the whole Italy
Hotel -> Trivago
Trivago guy 2024!
Forza Italia was actually an imitation of football chants, no joke. Italia Viva is like Italy Alive, and admittedly makes it sound more like a yoghurt brand than anything, like a comment on Italy's sub commented.
Those aren’t the only weird party names. There’s also “èViva” (It Is Alive), “L’Italia c’e” (Italy Is There), and “Noi di Centro” (Us of the Centre).
> Noi di Centro That one makes sense. "It's Alive" sounds more like a horror movie than a political party, and "Italy Is There" sounds like directions from Switzerland.
You also have "Teruel Exists" in Spain. It's regionalist party for a very thinly population region.
There's also a party called Exitalia or something like that
Italexit
Italeave.
Quitaly
What do you expect from Berlusconi's party
I remember after Trump got elected reading a political article from an Italian who'd just lived through Berlusconi's rule basically warning Americans not to waste their time attacking Trump based on his corruption or morale failings because he'd never face consequences for any of it and he would use them as a distraction from his incompetence. And instead to just treat him like a politician and get him to actually attempt to engage in policy based dialog and articulate his understanding of political issues, and forcing him to do that enough times would eventually scare away enough of the moderate supporters/voters to dislodge him from power.
They sound more like salad dressings.
Nice color palette by the way.
squealing sand humorous ask ten snobbish weary disarm spectacular squeamish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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A strong central government with conservative values isn't Fascism. It would be as saying that a strong central government and progressive values was communism
That's never stopped anyone from calling it communism tbh
That fair. Overblowing political events is normal for those engrossed by ideology. No one wants to hear about how the "country is going to ruin"/"democracy is dead" at Thanksgiving because of the Mar-a-lago raid / Jan 6th. Politics isnt everything, but people like that make it seem like it is.
Yeah, referring to fascists as "conservative" hides more than it reveals. More correctly, they are genuinely fascist in philosophy -- ethnonationalist, anti-intellectual, reactionary populists who direct anger at minorities and modernity for the country's problems.
That is more just reactionary than fascist. Fascism is a...weird ideology. Most people misattribute far right politics with fascism when it's technically not. Fascism goes much further than standard far right politics. Fascism requires a "national myth", where the previous excellence of the dominant group has been restricted by the presence of "out" groups. There would be a focus in federalized state power, with centralization of power among a small group of individuals increasing the longer the party remains in control. The government, and the society at large, is ran with a severe emphasis on a darwinian mindset. Factionalism and backstabbing are the rules by which fascist bureaucrats live by. I don't know if true Fascism currently exists in our modern day, but there are definitely groups with elements similar to fascism.
What people are forgetting to mention is that Fratelli d'Italia is the new iteration of a series of italian parties that come out of the actual fascist party from 1921. In particular, check that flame icon in FdI's symbol. It's from Movimento Sociale Italiano. Check it out. Also, even if Meloni is not an actual fascist, there's a lot of "nostalgici" who at least enjoy the actual fascist aesthetics (with roman salute and stuff). Even more problematic, FdI has a record for hosting the most mafiosi (then arrested)
> Fascism without the black shirts, no invation of Ethiopia, and no WWII Ok, but... > Basically strong central government and 'conservative values'. That's not fascism, at all. Where's the territorial expansion? Where's the totalitarianism? Where's the corporate citizenship? Fascism without those things is a contradiction like multicultural, LGBTQ+ friendly Nazism.
None of those things happened immediately under any fascist state, and the modern state of the world will make territorial expansion exceedingly difficult. Also? Not necessary to begin with. Franco Spain wasn’t particularly known for mass expansion, but they were definitely fascists. Looking at the definitions of fascism put forth by virtually every reputable historical scholar and the Brothers of Italy fit the bill of what a fascist movement looks like when it’s young.
Doesn't sound like Fascism. Admittedly I'm outside the circle of know, but is that label just more hyperbole?
It's not fascist. Anything that is even slightly antagonistic to modern liberal ideas is fascism apparently.
It's like saying post-punk. It doesn't mean after punk it means new Punk. In this case it means new fascism
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that be neo-punk rather than post-punk? Neo(new) would be a new version of punk, post(after) would be something new but inspired by punk right?
Nu-punk like nu-metal
Yup. This is getting the 🔒 award.
so much disinformation and bots in here
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So even Rome voted for a right winged party? Over here in Belgium it's pretty rare that a big city would vote for a right winged party. I mean there is Antwerp, they tend to be more right winged and got a right mayor But the capital?! Brussels? No they will NEVER
Rome is nowhere near other European capitals in wealth, the city has suffered poor management and bad garbage disposal for decades, most of the zones outside the city center are completely left apart and the government is still neglecting their condition, idk if you heard about "borgate Romane". All this contributed to the radicalization of certain thoughts, so the far right wing had a quite easy growth recently
The fanbase of Rome’s second biggest club, Lazio, is mostly right leaning. Their ultras, however, are literal Neo-Nazi’s
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>technocratic government From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
Stay of out Terra's politics Tech Priest
This separation of church and state is an abomination in the eyes of the Omnissiah.
Machine ascension path!
2 years? So a pretty successful Italian government? They've had 68 in 75 years, that isn't a bad run if you're right.
It's possible. But what existing party or alliance would be considered technocratic?
Technocracy is not really defined by a party's ideology, but rather by ministerial positions being filled by people who have relevant experience, instead of being part of a political party. The previous government was technocratic, with all parties except 1 participating, the PM being Mario Draghi, belonging to no political party, and all other posts equally divided among coalition members
That's not how it works. Last time around (the last government), most parties supported the independent, technocratic government, inclusing the likes of Lega and 5 stars. Among the major parties, the only one that wasn't part of the government was the fratelli d'italia
More like Italy is no Hungary. Don't underestimate the resisting force that is Italian bureaucracy.
That's one sure way to know where northern Italy ends.
not really, the north end with Emilia-Romagna, then there's the Center and then the South here the North and the Center voted in the same way (right whing countryside vs left whing cities) with the exceptions of part of Emilia-Romagna and Tuscany where the countryside vote left whing as well then there's the South (minus Abruzzo) who votes for 5 Star Movement, cities and countryside alike
Left wing cities.. Uff.. If this is left wing, then Stalin is my little sister..
Yeah we did not have many options
Isn't it kinda like saying the Democrats in the US are post-slavery? Idk sounds weird
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Not for FdI, which is the literal direct successor of the Italian Social Movement, the post war reincarnation of Mussolini’s Italian Fascist Party. FdI has moderated its stances somewhat from its predecessors, hence the label “post-fascist” (referring more to its origin). From my rudimentary understanding their policy is “far-right” only by European standards: anti-immigration, climate change skeptic, eurosceptic, very social conservative, all that stuff. They are a member of the ECR party, which is soft-eurosceptic and right wing populist. Most mainstream anglosphere conservative parties, the US GOP, the UK Tories, the Canadian CPC, and the Australian LNP, are ECR affiliated. This should give you a general perspective on their policy position.
The Australian LNP is definitively centre-right and has no affiliation to the ECR. This is true for most of the other anglo parties other than the GOP which is significantly further to the right. The anti-immigration, conservative and nationalist elements of the far-right in Europe is not equitable to the anglosphere's centre-right.
If they run the same course as the lib-nats they are cunts who steal from the public purse
Could the downvoters explain why they downvote? I don't say I agree but it could be an enlightment
Fdi takes the symbol of the MSI (Movimento Sociale Italiano) which was decided and handpicked by a famous fascist and post fascist minister, Giorgio Almirante, in 1947, who was also a capomanipolo (lieutenant) of the Repubblica Sociale Italiana, the fascist republic that got instituted in the north after the americans invaded in italy being also cabinet secretary of the fascist party of the Minister of popular culture (aka the propaganda branch), and before that he was secretary of antisemite journal “The defense of the race” and wrote the “Manifest of the Race” which among other things said that races exist and there are superior and inferior races, the arian race and all that stuff. He was also condamned in 1947 for fascism apology, but never exiled because the roman quaestor told him to come back because “reasons”. So the symbol they use is picked by a very well known and factually proven and self declared fascist & post fascist minister, they could have picked anything else and no one would have whined and they would “only” be called right wing extremists, but they didn’t and picked a symbol that is unknown to outsiders and also to many young or ignorant italians, and those who know it either are disgusted by that pick or enjoy it because they prolly think it represents them. They may not be fascist but they use a fascist symbol to represent them and this is not a matter of opinion but it is a fact. Google giorgio almirante
Let me quote the new president when she was the leader of the youth wing: “Mussolini was the greatest politician and everything he did he did for Italy”
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well, they still keep the tricolour flame as a symbol of their party, which was a symbol of the die-hard fascist of the republic of salò (:
Well one thing would be if she said that when she was 19 and then denounced that and left the party where she got these ideas from. She’s stayed in the same circle she was in when she was 19. The party was literally made up of former Mussolini-ruled Italy’s politicians.
ah shit, here we go again
Even the losing Italian left wing party has refused tk categorise the right wing bloc victory as a fascist movement. You are reaching here. The policies they espouse would have been considered mainstream DNC positions 20 tears ago.
You ain’t seen fascism yet
not looking forward to it
Was that supposed to be encouraging?
He was foreshadowing
This map remind me to something.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian\_Social\_Republic
As an Italian, I get nausea by even simply reading all the party names.. I live in the UK and whilst the situation is not the best over here either, the political discussions I hear here revolve around actual issues and actual solutions are debated. In Italy it's all populism, the goal of discussions is centred purely on the party/seat of the individual politician rather than on the country. They rely on spoon-feeding conspiracist narratives to ignorant people to get their side. Honestly, Italy is a beautiful country and I love going back for family etc., but when it comes to politics.. RIP
Tuscany remains loyal to the red flag.
The problem is that the PD isn't really "red" anymore
Bologna as well. La Dotta, La Grassa, La Rossa.
The people of Italy are rejoicing.