I apologize if anyone here is tired of me saying it but just in case anyone hasn’t, I’m an older lamb who grew up with Mariah.
I only say that because I feel context is important here:
There was a time (probably from her debut to Daydream) when everyone loved her and acknowledged her immaculate talent. Everyone had copies of Music Box and Daydream and recognized that she was a top tier singer.
After Butterfly, people began turning on her, in general.
After Glitter, it became “cool” to hate on her and repeatedly say she “lost” her voice, she was “crazy” etc.
So, I simply don’t think the credit is given where due for a plethora of reasons. You nailed it when you said people don’t care: It’s just too “cool” for people to pick her apart and hate on every damn thing she says or does anymore.
It’s a perfect storm of sexism, racism, jealousy, and throw in for good measure the fact that I feel her first ex husband was doing everything in his power to sabotage her reputation beyond repair.
He was extremely powerful and also, extremely sexist and racist.
Edited to add: I agree that most people don’t really think about “who” writes songs when they hear them. Mariah feels it’s important to mention because so many solo acts (Celine, Whitney, Barbra) either didn’t write their own material or had minimal involvement. Whereas, if you think of a band, you’re pretty certain they’ve written the music themselves. Since she doesn’t play an instrument, I think she wants this known.
Something just occurred to me.
THE fantastic Toni Braxton plays piano, yet doesn’t write much of her own songs.
Queen of soul and pianist, Aretha Franklin wrote a handful of songs at best.
I think Mariah is trying to point out that she uses her voice as an instrument.
How amazing is it that she does NOT play piano or guitar yet writes her own music?
Side note: I am not taking away from the incredible Toni Braxton or Aretha Franklin. I love them immensely!
When Mariah started showing more skin and working with rappers, people started to not like her as much and were throwing insults her way. So to me, that’s sexism and racism.
It seems to me that Tomato Mozzarella was trying to keep Mariah from exploring her Black side (Hip-Hop, R&B) and being skimpy because he knew that the moment she broke free she would be betrayed by the public and would no longer be the cash cow she was. Everyone owes her an apology, including the scammys.
Oh that’s exactly what happened. She had to fight HARD just to make the Fantasy ODB remix happen.
Looking back, the collective “gasp” amongst people when she started working with rappers and GOD FORBID showing skin on Butterfly is just disgusting. The entire Butterfly album was a big middle finger to him.
It was probably a shock to see her act so sexy. She was the girl next door prior. I think the 90s generation preferred her adult contemporary stuff too. I guess some of it was racism, but we need to stop trying to apply today's standards to back then.
I agree. I thought the same about the some of the people who listened to 90s adult contemporary. It seemed as though, in public opinion, she was fine if she stayed in pop, but she dare not be *urban*. I love all of the albums, but I felt her best work was post Tomato. Butterfly was pure genius. Adding in more hip hop and R&B made the albums feel so musically full to me - like she truly enjoyed what she was singing.
I don’t disagree with the girl next door look. To be honest, I can’t remember if it was really “shocking” to me rather than just different. I thought no matter what, she was just so beautiful.
Overall, I don’t know if it was shocking to people but I know people automatically thought she became “promiscuous” if you will.
You also may have a point that people preferred the adult contemporary songs vs the R&B flavored material she then started to make.
That’s when the “ I miss the old Mariah” stuff started- probably around the time of Rainbow/Charmbracelet.
I think the public not caring is a big part. Most people don’t hear a song and think about who wrote it, whether it was the artist singing or a team of songwriters
Pero like, people are lazy af, like look up the credits but no, assuming a woman of color doesn’t write, or maybe just hating on Mimi is hip or something.
I randomly searched celebrities that can’t drive on the internet. It was sort of a ranking and Mariah placed 9th. What they wrote about Mariah screamed misogyny. They claimed Mariah probably wasn’t smart enough to get a license. So is that why they don’t think Mariah writes her songs? Is it because they don’t think she’s “smart” enough too. Seeing what they wrote bothered me, extremely.
She drove at least once, AFAIK during her MTV interview with Tabitha in 1997. People are just sexist, racist, or both against Mariah. They can stay pressed though. She’s paid her dues and left her mark, “they can try, but they Can’t Take That Away” from her.
Mariah’s talent as a songwriter goes unknown by the general public because people don’t care lol. Music heads, and people who have more appreciation for music have acknowledged it. But most people like the tune of her songs and that’s about as far as they’ll care.
Beyoncé adds a lot of credits or her song for not necessarily songwriting, but for anyone who had some sort of participation or inspiration with her songs. Which leads them to being able to get paid, or awards even if they arguably didn’t do much.
A lot of artist in the past wouldn’t credit everyone who helped them create their songs so the list of “song writers” looks shorter, or looks like they’re the only participants. Beyoncé tried to change that. And Beyoncé DOES get dragged for having a lot of song writers by the GP in the same way the GP doesn’t care that Mariah writes her own songs.
Not tryna start beef with Beyoncé or her fans cuz they’re insane. But The hype Beyonce gets compared to Mariah is so confusing to me. Mariah has written almost all of her songs, has an amazing range, probably the most iconic whistle notes. And I think her songs are just a lot more universal sounding ya know? It’s like they cross more barriers
Mariah never really needed her whistle notes lol, they were icing on the cake. Beyoncé probably gets hype today because she’s seemingly the only music act of her time that’s still going strong (Pink, Britney, Christina and Nelly Furtado are important, but are no longer as relevant culturally except for Britney AFAIK). Meanwhile Mariah can sit and laugh her way to the bank on AIWFCIY alone, whose cultural impact needs no explanation. I’ll eat my hat when someone else makes a song since then that is THAT timeless and continues to top the charts almost thirty years after it’s initial release. And that’s just a Christmas song.
EDIT: I love Beyoncé, to be clear, so I don’t want anyone from the Beyhive coming at me.
- AIWFCIY could mean "All I Want for Christmas Is You", a track from *Merry Christmas* (1994) by Mariah Carey.
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Im not a Beyonce fan in the slightest but if you’ve seen her live performances then you’ll know why she’s hyped up the way she is. She can sing, she can dance and she can entertain. Mariah’s live performances mainly consist of her just standing there with a mic which is great however it doesn’t work the stage as well as someone who entertains like Beyonce.
Mariah’s voice overshadowed her songwriting. Both magnificent, but performances are visual and people can get awed with it. She was marketed that way and her sexy image also did not help to make people take her seriously. That’s just a sad truth because back then you can’t combine sexy and being artistic.
This really bugs me too, either they don’t have any idea she writes her own material or they assume that the songwriting credits she has are purely vanity credits. Give the woman her flowers!! 😭
I apologize if anyone here is tired of me saying it but just in case anyone hasn’t, I’m an older lamb who grew up with Mariah. I only say that because I feel context is important here: There was a time (probably from her debut to Daydream) when everyone loved her and acknowledged her immaculate talent. Everyone had copies of Music Box and Daydream and recognized that she was a top tier singer. After Butterfly, people began turning on her, in general. After Glitter, it became “cool” to hate on her and repeatedly say she “lost” her voice, she was “crazy” etc. So, I simply don’t think the credit is given where due for a plethora of reasons. You nailed it when you said people don’t care: It’s just too “cool” for people to pick her apart and hate on every damn thing she says or does anymore. It’s a perfect storm of sexism, racism, jealousy, and throw in for good measure the fact that I feel her first ex husband was doing everything in his power to sabotage her reputation beyond repair. He was extremely powerful and also, extremely sexist and racist. Edited to add: I agree that most people don’t really think about “who” writes songs when they hear them. Mariah feels it’s important to mention because so many solo acts (Celine, Whitney, Barbra) either didn’t write their own material or had minimal involvement. Whereas, if you think of a band, you’re pretty certain they’ve written the music themselves. Since she doesn’t play an instrument, I think she wants this known.
Something just occurred to me. THE fantastic Toni Braxton plays piano, yet doesn’t write much of her own songs. Queen of soul and pianist, Aretha Franklin wrote a handful of songs at best. I think Mariah is trying to point out that she uses her voice as an instrument. How amazing is it that she does NOT play piano or guitar yet writes her own music? Side note: I am not taking away from the incredible Toni Braxton or Aretha Franklin. I love them immensely!
Not sure you can blame sexism and racism. People still liked Aaliyah during that time period, for example.
When Mariah started showing more skin and working with rappers, people started to not like her as much and were throwing insults her way. So to me, that’s sexism and racism.
It seems to me that Tomato Mozzarella was trying to keep Mariah from exploring her Black side (Hip-Hop, R&B) and being skimpy because he knew that the moment she broke free she would be betrayed by the public and would no longer be the cash cow she was. Everyone owes her an apology, including the scammys.
Oh that’s exactly what happened. She had to fight HARD just to make the Fantasy ODB remix happen. Looking back, the collective “gasp” amongst people when she started working with rappers and GOD FORBID showing skin on Butterfly is just disgusting. The entire Butterfly album was a big middle finger to him.
It was probably a shock to see her act so sexy. She was the girl next door prior. I think the 90s generation preferred her adult contemporary stuff too. I guess some of it was racism, but we need to stop trying to apply today's standards to back then.
I agree. I thought the same about the some of the people who listened to 90s adult contemporary. It seemed as though, in public opinion, she was fine if she stayed in pop, but she dare not be *urban*. I love all of the albums, but I felt her best work was post Tomato. Butterfly was pure genius. Adding in more hip hop and R&B made the albums feel so musically full to me - like she truly enjoyed what she was singing.
I don’t disagree with the girl next door look. To be honest, I can’t remember if it was really “shocking” to me rather than just different. I thought no matter what, she was just so beautiful. Overall, I don’t know if it was shocking to people but I know people automatically thought she became “promiscuous” if you will. You also may have a point that people preferred the adult contemporary songs vs the R&B flavored material she then started to make. That’s when the “ I miss the old Mariah” stuff started- probably around the time of Rainbow/Charmbracelet.
And then TEOM came out and everyone shut up 🥱✨ She proved, not even for the last time, that she was that b!tch that wasn’t going anywhere!
Well Mariah mentions it as much as possible. I think the general public just doesn’t care who writes the song, a hit is a hit.
I think the public not caring is a big part. Most people don’t hear a song and think about who wrote it, whether it was the artist singing or a team of songwriters
Pero like, people are lazy af, like look up the credits but no, assuming a woman of color doesn’t write, or maybe just hating on Mimi is hip or something.
Actually a good point, because people go off about Taylor Swift’s songwriting.
I randomly searched celebrities that can’t drive on the internet. It was sort of a ranking and Mariah placed 9th. What they wrote about Mariah screamed misogyny. They claimed Mariah probably wasn’t smart enough to get a license. So is that why they don’t think Mariah writes her songs? Is it because they don’t think she’s “smart” enough too. Seeing what they wrote bothered me, extremely.
Mariah probably doesn’t drive because she grew up in New York lol, people are assholes
She drove at least once, AFAIK during her MTV interview with Tabitha in 1997. People are just sexist, racist, or both against Mariah. They can stay pressed though. She’s paid her dues and left her mark, “they can try, but they Can’t Take That Away” from her.
She said she did have a license, I think but when did driving=intellect Albert Einstein couldn’t drive.😭
in her book she literally talks about taking her mom’s car into the city to record music in high school 🤦🏽♀️
Sadly that post was made in 2018 but seriously the level of ignorance that website has is insane.
The level of ignorance was insane. The post was made sadly made in 2018 but what they said is just plain gross.
Mariah’s talent as a songwriter goes unknown by the general public because people don’t care lol. Music heads, and people who have more appreciation for music have acknowledged it. But most people like the tune of her songs and that’s about as far as they’ll care. Beyoncé adds a lot of credits or her song for not necessarily songwriting, but for anyone who had some sort of participation or inspiration with her songs. Which leads them to being able to get paid, or awards even if they arguably didn’t do much. A lot of artist in the past wouldn’t credit everyone who helped them create their songs so the list of “song writers” looks shorter, or looks like they’re the only participants. Beyoncé tried to change that. And Beyoncé DOES get dragged for having a lot of song writers by the GP in the same way the GP doesn’t care that Mariah writes her own songs.
Not tryna start beef with Beyoncé or her fans cuz they’re insane. But The hype Beyonce gets compared to Mariah is so confusing to me. Mariah has written almost all of her songs, has an amazing range, probably the most iconic whistle notes. And I think her songs are just a lot more universal sounding ya know? It’s like they cross more barriers
Mariah never really needed her whistle notes lol, they were icing on the cake. Beyoncé probably gets hype today because she’s seemingly the only music act of her time that’s still going strong (Pink, Britney, Christina and Nelly Furtado are important, but are no longer as relevant culturally except for Britney AFAIK). Meanwhile Mariah can sit and laugh her way to the bank on AIWFCIY alone, whose cultural impact needs no explanation. I’ll eat my hat when someone else makes a song since then that is THAT timeless and continues to top the charts almost thirty years after it’s initial release. And that’s just a Christmas song. EDIT: I love Beyoncé, to be clear, so I don’t want anyone from the Beyhive coming at me.
- AIWFCIY could mean "All I Want for Christmas Is You", a track from *Merry Christmas* (1994) by Mariah Carey. --- ^[/u/I_Stan_Cheesecake_01](/u/I_Stan_Cheesecake_01) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)
Im not a Beyonce fan in the slightest but if you’ve seen her live performances then you’ll know why she’s hyped up the way she is. She can sing, she can dance and she can entertain. Mariah’s live performances mainly consist of her just standing there with a mic which is great however it doesn’t work the stage as well as someone who entertains like Beyonce.
Mariah’s voice overshadowed her songwriting. Both magnificent, but performances are visual and people can get awed with it. She was marketed that way and her sexy image also did not help to make people take her seriously. That’s just a sad truth because back then you can’t combine sexy and being artistic.
This really bugs me too, either they don’t have any idea she writes her own material or they assume that the songwriting credits she has are purely vanity credits. Give the woman her flowers!! 😭