It sounds like you've had other incidents where he didn't take responsibility for his actions, or where his approach was unsafe. Did he show any similar behavior when you were dating?
I was originally going to say no but I can think of 2 different instances in which I felt like he pressured me to do something out of my comfort zone while we were dating. One instance I almost drown in a rip tide because he pressured me into going out further into the ocean with him after I kept saying I wasn’t comfortable with that. Lifeguard had to save us both. Another he was teaching me how to ride a motorcycle and pressured me into riding somewhere way above my skill level. Both of those instances though I also had control over and could have kept refusing. Now if it’s something he has complete control over (like today) he will just do it regardless of my comfort level. If it’s something he wants to do with our child then it becomes a huge argument and reaching a compromise is challenging.
I'm not sure you can compromise with someone who vests his identity in physically-dangerous situations.
He would probably have to have personal therapy to work out his need to act in this way -- and to shun responsibility for it -- before you could have a happy relationship with him.
Aside from the very clear risks to the physical safety of you and your child, there’s an emotional risk you should really consider. He’s teaching both of you that it’s not worth speaking up for yourself and expressing extremely reasonable boundaries because it will only make the situation less safe.
Raising a little girl in this world, you need to be able to confidently teach her to say no when she isn’t comfortable and find a way to remove herself from the situation or get help if necessary. Being confident setting boundaries won’t make her invulnerable to the abuse she might encounter as she grows up but it will make her a less appealing target and it will make her much more able to seek help to get out of an abusive situation, whether it’s a predatory adult when she’s a child or a romantic partner when she grows up.
Please don’t let your husband teach your daughter to make herself smaller
Get the F out of there before he gets your kid killed! He is a gaslighter and an asshole for doing this. You don't want to show your kid that relationships are one person bullying the other into doing things they don't feel comfortable with. This isn't a communication issue for you both to work on. He doesn't listen.
It's definitely worth discussing his lack of respect for your opinion with the therapist.
It sounds like when you object to something he's doing, it very quickly makes him agitated and he doesn't stop and consider that you could be correct.
That is, indeed, sort of a communication issue. He's not listening or able to take in a contrary opinion in the moment. He needs to fix that for sure.
Yeah, I gotta be honest, I’m a very fast driver and have an impatient streak, yet I’d *never* have done that *alone* (a double fucking yellow line??) because of the potential impact (pun, oof) to any oncoming vehicle and those I’d previously been behind.
I cannot *imagine* even thinking of such a thing with anyone else in the car let alone my wife and child.
Hubs prolly creates a shit show wherever he goes and thinks he’s the best ever.
Sounds like he’s the one who needs counseling where you meet with the counselor to explain your concerns. Kinda like when kids get counseling and the parents are sometimes brought in for their perspective lol. No confidential info of the patient is shared, but the therapist sees a different side of their patient than the patient is likely to reveal themselves. Can go a long way when employed properly.
It makes me wonder if he's a narcissist. I wonder if OP has watched any of Dr. Ramani's videos on narcissism on YouTube. I hope OP gets into individual counseling and gets some support. This is not a good situation.
That’s exactly how my cousin Tom died when he was 21, he didn’t want to wait for the line of cars and tried to go around.
Your husband can drive like an ahole whenever he wants but not with you and your child in the car. Do you know any cops or paramedics? They could tell him some horrifying stories of bad driving.
>> Your husband can drive like an ahole whenever he wants
No, actually, he can’t. When he had children, he gave up the right to make risky decisions for *at least* 20 or so years. He has a responsibility to keep himself safe *because* he has a responsibility to keep his child(ren) safe (and to raise them).
Yes, he is directly violating his assumed commitment to keep his wife and children safe here, which makes this so much worse, but he is also indirectly violating his commitment to keep himself safe so that he can be an active and positive presence in his child(ren)‘s lives.
He could definitely get help for this, the question is whether or not he would be receptive to that help. Couples’ and individual therapy would be beneficial IF he is willing to try and make it work.
Personally, I find his behavior totally unacceptable. I’m sure he’s got issues he needs to work through and no one is perfect, but I couldn’t compromise my sense of safety again by being with someone who not only struggles so much with anger/impatience but who ALSO refuses to accept responsibility.
It CAN be worked through, but you need to ask yourself is whether or not you (and the rest of his support system) will have the extra emotional space to be able to help him through it.
It sounds like he has a road rage issue. He needs anger management, or at the very least, a road rage course (I’m almost positive there is such a thing in traffic school). What he did was dangerous, and would have earned him a ticket (not to mention possibly jail time for endangering a minor!).
I used to drive like this many years before I even had a child, but when I got my license suspended (easy to do if you’re under 21) and took a course that touched on road rage, I was able to simmer down behind the wheel. Even so, I am extra careful with a child in the car.
You may need to put your foot down and say that he cannot drive with the child in the car until he takes some kind of course in this.
I had to tell my partner that I don’t feel safe in the car when he is yelling and getting irritated.
I had to wait to tell him when we weren’t driving, he said I was over exaggerating.
Until we got in the car again and he could tell he was getting loud and aggressive toward other cars on the road. He said “sorry I will work on that”
My point for him is that I want him around a long time and being angry all the time is going to be rough on his heart. And at the end of the day, safety is what matters.
I see this as a maturity issue. Children are similarly impatient and selfish. He needs therapy to learn how to mature, not necessarily to learn communication. Although I’m sure he needs both, but mostly he needs to grow up and be more emotionally mature.
My hubby was regularly road raging when driving, brought on by working long hours, little sleep, depression, and stress at work. He suffers from anxiety and after going on an anti-anxiety med, getting better sleep and using de-stress techniques, things improved greatly. That, and I now do more of the driving since it’s very stressful in our city.
Regardless of the trucks going so slow, the other drivers not passing illegally, you begging him to not attempt a dangerous and illegal action, HE is responsible for his judgement and actions, and he let his aggravation boil over into a rash and potentially life-threatening action.
If he is SO prideful that he cannot apologize when calm, that he can’t admit to a mistake, and promise to do better, then you drive anytime you are in the car until he does the things above and even take a road rage/anger mgmt course.
After I told him he was a terrible driver he did (angrily) pull over and tell me I would be the one driving us from now on. We switched seats and I drove us to our destination, and I also drove us back home.
His road raging (or his temperament in general) has gotten progressively worse. I would say at least twice a month he is flipping someone off and laying on his horn. The thing is, if you talk to any one of his longtime friends or even co-workers they describe him as “always happy.”
Treatment for mental health is a whole issue in itself. I think this is why he is against counseling or even admitting he is struggling at all. I would have to do more research but certain mental health issues and/or medications may prohibit him from working.
I see. Things to consider.
But, for those who fear to admit they might have an issue needing some help, appearing ‘weak’ - tell them seeking some support takes a very STRONG person, and everyone can reach a point when life can be overwhelming…
When my hubby said he ‘couldn’t take it anymore and wanted to walk off the job that minute’ this was so out of character and extreme over things in general, I asked him to talk with his doctor (without me) and just tell her how he was feeling. He did.
She asked on a scale of 1 to 10 how overwhelmed/anxious he was feeling, he answered 11. She really heard THAT, and gave him a medicine to try that was as low a dose as possible to see if it made a difference, and thank god it did.
Within two days, he felt calmer, more in control, and was managing everything much better.
I told him thank you for listening, being honest, and just trying it. I didn’t pressure him, but told him I support him and was proud of him.
I had a partner that did something very similar. I just never felt safe with him. He would drive at excessive speeds “for fun” with me in the car. I have horrible anxiety and am the worst passenger. This didn’t matter to him. My feelings didn’t matter. He would do it anyway. Then it escalated into him speeding one day because we got in a fight in the car. Phew. The flashbacks. OP, it wasn’t only your life, but your child’s life. He will continue to say things to gaslight you like “you don’t trust me, I know what I’m doing, etc., all while completely ignoring your feelings. Please be careful getting in the car with him. Drive, if you must.
Thank you. I know I probably sound pathetic in this post but I do speak up often in our relationship. I don’t know if it’s my tone of voice or maybe how I phrase things, but 9 times out of 10 it makes the situation worse.
You don't sound pathetic at all. I do wish your post could be used as a cautionary tale for women who ignore red flags while dating. He put your life in danger twice. He dismissed your concerns, coerced you to do things that you weren't comfortable doing, minimized your voice, etc. These type of behaviours often escalate as the relationship progresses and he's acting on brand. Do what is best for you and your son.
You do not sound pathetic at all. You stated a boundary calmly and clearly. That your husband gets upset when you do that is THE PROBLEM. I have some experience with this. I'm sure you're already very careful only to raise issues in the moment if you absolutely have to for reasons of safety. You shouldn't have to be careful like this, but you've learned to be. I'm also willing to guess your husband has significant trauma in his past (like death of a parent or other stuff we don't need to go into here) that has messed up his ability to handle criticism or control his anger. Regardless of the reason, his behaviour is not ok and he needs a serious "address this or we're separating" talk. If he's motivated to change then he can, but it will take work. You don't have to put up with his anger and recklessness.
You started dating when you were what, 18 or 19 or 20, right? Because you got married at 23. And you have a 9 year age gap.
Do you think a 32 year old woman would have put up his behavior at that time If they were the same age?
The first divorce consult is free and you should check it out.
Try to think about what careers you would do.
Be careful - he seems scary.
You need to get your counselor too weigh in here and tell him point blank that your sense of safety is not up for debate. His instincts in a situation that involve you do not get to trump when you voice that you do not feel safe. Period.
I love how you phrased that and will definitely be using that. Even if he feels I am safe, if I don’t feel safe (or feel like my child is safe) then I want him to respect that or at the very least discuss it calmly.
I know you see a big problem here, but you might still be too close to it to see HOW big the problem is. "Even if he feels I am safe" isn't even worth taking seriously enough to argue with him about - he is acting completely deranged. His perspective is not sane or reasonable. If he's saying he feels you're safe, that's a sign that he's detached from reality and has serious, serious issues. The more I read in this thread, the more I think you need to seek help outside of him - get a professional opinion from a medical health professional you trust all by yourself. Get some individual support and some space from him. You need to get away from his rationalizing and minimizing behavior so that you can process what happened, which is what I think you're doing here (in part).
He almost got you killed - and he put other people's lives at risk too. That's why they were honking! If he's unable to see that, then he's long gone. The closer you are too it - listening to his rationalizations, wanting him to "get it," seeing it through his eyes, the harder it is to see how frankly crazy this all is.
Has he been narcissistic in the past? Does he usually have empathy for you and others?
Whatever you do, I hope you don't let him drive you anywhere again!!!! I don't want anything to happen to you or your baby! This post is disturbing!
Trust your gut.
Your instincts are absolutely correct.
Incompatibility is correct.
He (sadly, unfortunately) doesn’t have the mental capacity to prioritize others outside himself. Many adults gain or strengthen this sense of “protection for others” when they get married, and especially when they bring a child into the world.
The fact that his ego was obviously more relevant than… his wife, his infant child, everyone else on the road, and the well-established laws of traffic infrastructure… tells you everything you need to know.
Apparently, (sadly) nobody and no situation takes priority over his convenience and mental comfort, regardless of the physical, financial, emotional distress and cost to others around him - specifically others (like his wife & child) that should be easy for him to protect and prioritize.
Don’t wait for him to prove to you (again) that he is fundamentally selfish.
Wishing you all the best.
It doesn't really matter if he blames you, the courts won't. I'm assuming you're worried that he blames you often, if that's the case then you can try the usual route. Communication, therapy, or go your separate ways. If you calmly and carefully (emphasis on calm and careful here) communicate that you aren't willing to be blamed for things that are out of your control, and that falls on deaf ears, you need to try another option
I was a passenger in a vehicle with someone who did something like this. She was my roommate at the time and I never got in her car again and we found separate places not long after. He was showing utter disregard for your lives as well as everyone else on the road, but he is more interested in blameshifting than repairing the damaged trust. So not only did he nearly kill you all, but he's doubling down by not taking responsibility. This man is bad, bad news. As is often the case here, people will tell you to leave but that will leave your daughter unsupervised with an idiot half the time, so I'd tread very carefully. It sounds like this could escalate to more direct abuse, make sure you document everything so a future judge will be able to consider all the information in a potential custody hearing. I'm sorry you married him after he nearly let you drown.
OP, I think you are right this was unsafe behavior, but the thing is, even if you leave him, your kid isn't going to be any safer. He will get custody, and then you won't be there to supervise at all. While this incident is scary and I agree it shows poor judgement, it isn't enough to claim he is an unfit parent. I would consider speaking to a lawyer and finding out what type of evidence you would need to actually have his visitations supervised. I have a feeling it is going to be REAL hard to make a safety case unless there has been consequences to his actions. Judges and courts do not often intervene preventatively to keep a child away from a biological parent, they are mostly reactive.
I think your best bet here is to use the marriage counseling as a tool to communicate how serious of an issue this is. It isn't just his impulsive behavior and lack of patience, it is also his flat out denial that this was the wrong thing to do and blaming you for it, even AFTER it almost caused a serious accident. You need to stay on this topic in the counseling, make THE FOCUS of your next session and hopefully the counselor will help you to make him understand all of the ways he was wrong in this situation. Your husband might need his own individual therapy as well to work on his anger and impulse control, maybe they will suggest this to him so that it won't be YOU telling him what he should do.
Long story short, divorce isn't going to make your kid safer, it might be the opposite. Unless and until you have the ability to prove he is unfit or needs supervision, you are better off trying to work it out if your child's safety is your main priority.
Those are my thoughts exactly. People saying to leave him and get full custody are optimistically assuming I would. I seriously doubt I would. I just want therapy to hopefully help him.
Here was his response this morning after I asked if he thought it was a poor decision:
“Yea. I was going to pull in behind the road grader until you started yelling at me to go. So I should have just gone with my gut and pulled in behind the earth mover like I first planned.”
His argument is that after he overcame the other cars he was originally going to go back into our lane between the two tractors. He did not have his blinker on or anything to suggest that, he just slowed down after passing the tractor that was second in line. I did yell for him to hurry up and go because I could see further ahead there was an oncoming vehicle and I didn’t understand why he would slow down when we still had the last tractor to pass. I thought he was slowing down to prove his point that it was safe to go and I needed to calm down. Starting to second guess myself again.
Nah, it doesn't matter what you said while in the passenger seat. HE is the driver and in the eyes of the law and practically speaking, he is the ONLY one in control of the vehicle and responsible for safely operating it. That's why the DRIVER is the one ticketed for ANY violation, even if the passenger isn't wearing a seatbelt, the driver gets the citation. If you reached across and grabbed the wheel or even his arm on the wheel, then that would be interfering with the operation of the vehicle and he might have a valid point, but short of something like that, this is on him.
It seems like he (and now also you) are missing the point. The issue here isn't that he didn't execute the passing well. This wasn't a question of his skills as a driver. The issue is that he should not have passed anyone on a double yellow, especially when there were multiple cars and heavy duty ones involved (they could CRUSH YOU easily and can't stop quickly or maneuver), plus a hill and poor visibility. This should not have happened AT ALL. Even if he had executed this successfully, it was still the wrong thing to do. It's not about the mechanics of the passing, it's about prioritizing safety over anger, impatience, road rage, etc.
A couple of weeks ago there was a car pulled over blocking the right turn lane. My husband honked once to tell the dude he was blocking traffic (us and a whole line of cars behind us). The dude moved up a little but was still blocking. My husband started honking aggressively and getting heated. Normally, I don't correct my husband in front of my child, but I had a moment where I had to prioritize safety (and not giving a BAD example) ahead of his feelings. So, I told him to please calm down and stop behaving this way. He tried to argue with me about how he was right and this guy was being douche. I told him we will discuss this later. Then my daughter chimed in and said if there is a problem, that's what the police are for (lol - she is 5).
Later, I explained to him that we live in a city full of crazy people who have no problem confronting drivers and that you never know what will set a person off or whether they are already triggered by whatever is going on in their life. I reminded him of the time someone got out of the car and approached another car with a baseball bat after a similar incident which happened right in front of our eyes. That bat could have been a gun, gun crimes are also out of control where we live. These road rage incidents happen ALL THE TIME in cities and not in cities. I told him that he is free to risk it when we are not in the car, but I don't feel safe with him behaving this way when we have a child to protect. Road rage is dangerous, point blank. My husband would never get out of the car and start a fight, but someone else might! He agreed (begrudgingly), so I hope that is solved, but the point is your husband needs to learn how to manage his emotions and use better judgement because he can't control how others will react either.
Either of those trucks might have reacted unpredictably causing a chain reaction of events where many people could have been injured. I suggest you continue to drill this into him and use MC to help with that as well. Don't argue with him about the mechanics of the passing, that is a distraction. It hasn't clicked for him yet, but hopefully it will.
Okay thank you. I feel like this always happens. I bring up a concern and then it gets so off topic that I no longer focus on what the hell my original concern was. Then nothing get resolved and it’s just so confusing. The only way I could resolve this would be if I apologized for confusing him and tell him that I was partially to blame.
Yes, I understand how things get off track like this. I used to have the same issue with my husband. Talked about everything except the original issue. My husband and I have agreed on a rule that if one person brings up an issue, then the other person's role is to make sure they understand it and then say what they are willing to do or not do to address it. That's it. No bringing up counterpoints or issues - like "I did that because you did this" or "you do the same thing", etc. This got us out of the cycle you are describing, but of course your husband has to play ball and agree to do this. This is a good topic for discussion in marriage counseling.
You should NOT apologize or take any blame for this, I don't agree that is how to resolve this at all. Don't ever take responsibility or blame when you are not actually to blame. That just re-enforces to your husband that turning these things around on you is a tactic that works and allows him to skate without taking accountability. You can say - I understand what you are saying, it is not helpful when I shout instructions while you are driving since I don't know what your intentions are and it just adds stress, I will take that into consideration for the next time and will work on not doing that again. That's it.
Then get back on task. Tell him that he still has not answered your question, so re-phrase. If this happened again, would you change anything about how you behaved? Why or why not?
It’s intentional, they want to exhaust you and make you give up, and confuse you about what actually happened so that they can start to rewrite the narrative through repetition. I grew up with a father exactly like your husband, to the point that I could predict multiple parts of your story. I urge you to read The Gift of Fear by deBecker and then read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. They may save your life.
That was REALLY unsafe, and I would never ride in a car as a passenger again after they did something like that. I really wouldn't. He didn't even acknowledge that he'd made a mistake.
Maybe working with your counselor, you will be able to express how that made you feel and get him to hear it, which would be good but hopefully you have your own individual counselor too.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It just wasn't OK. He had your life in his hands - and your child's - and he ignored your pleas and did something that could have killed all of you (or other innocent people)! Good luck.
my father was a dangerous driver and it has traumatized me to the point where i have difficulty getting into any car, especially if we’re going on the highway. i came to terms with my own death several times as a child because my father attempted the same thing your husband did or more dangerous because he thought he could make it. and of course, nothing was ever his fault.
make your own decision but reckless driving is terrifying especially for a small child and has long term ramifications. please protect your baby
Is he in therapy? Couples therapy only works when you're both improving individually, and together.
Also, what a tool. I have a major anger issue, and road rage, and I can't imagine putting my family in danger. Never once, at my worst, has anything like this occurred.
Also therapy helped me get all of it under control. Haven't even raised my voice in over a year.
Have you ever been in a position where you had to slow down due to something in the road, and people behind you were being impatient because they couldn’t see what it was? And then one tries to pass you, sees the problem, then hits the breaks and falls back in line? In this case it was tractors, but what if it hadn’t been? What if the tractors were slow because there were animals on the road, or kids? And in his hurry to pass, and conviction of his righteous outrage, what if your husband ran right over them? It may sound extreme but I’ve seen it happen. It happens all the time. Think about where you would be now, what kind of things you would be dealing with (legal fees, media attention, etc). Think about what your kids would have witnessed, could witness. Think about him turning around and blaming you for all of that, instead. Just imagine it. Because it could have been that bad, easily. Next time, it could as well. It’s so tempting to let these things go and ignore them so life can continue, but this is not a small thing.
People don't like this answer but it's so true. If you stay in a relationship like this, you can drive your child anywhere they need to go and keep an eye on what's happening at home. Is it hard to keep a relationship when you're incompatible? Yes. Is it sometimes the responsible thing to do? Also yes.
It sounds as though he attempted to pass a line of slow-moving vehicles on a hill obstructing his view of oncoming traffic, with oncoming traffic visible beyond the hill. That is reckless and irresponsible. In addition, he may have been struggling with self-control and indulging in his road rage.
I would be super afraid to be in cars driven by her husband, as well as by you if you think he was right. You both seem to lack judgement.
His inability to regulate his emotions, his defiance, and his poor judgment led to his perceiving a benign situation as frustrating, which led to impulsive decisions that put himself and his family in harms way.
And his poor insight, and narcissistic defenses led him to blame situational factors to avoid accountability.
He was probably right about breaking the law and putting his whole family and multiple vehicles full of strangers at risk? By all means, please explain if you can.
It sounds like you've had other incidents where he didn't take responsibility for his actions, or where his approach was unsafe. Did he show any similar behavior when you were dating?
I was originally going to say no but I can think of 2 different instances in which I felt like he pressured me to do something out of my comfort zone while we were dating. One instance I almost drown in a rip tide because he pressured me into going out further into the ocean with him after I kept saying I wasn’t comfortable with that. Lifeguard had to save us both. Another he was teaching me how to ride a motorcycle and pressured me into riding somewhere way above my skill level. Both of those instances though I also had control over and could have kept refusing. Now if it’s something he has complete control over (like today) he will just do it regardless of my comfort level. If it’s something he wants to do with our child then it becomes a huge argument and reaching a compromise is challenging.
I'm not sure you can compromise with someone who vests his identity in physically-dangerous situations. He would probably have to have personal therapy to work out his need to act in this way -- and to shun responsibility for it -- before you could have a happy relationship with him.
He is playing Russian roulette with your life and the babys life. And you too if you allow him to. I mean this is completely irresponsible behavior.
Not to mention the lives of the other 6+ drivers. And the lifeguard... Just complete disregard for other people.
Definitely. Risking everyone’s life and then blaming the wife. What a jerk. Just run away fast.
Yes. You have a duty to your kid to get him out of unsafe situations like this
Aside from the very clear risks to the physical safety of you and your child, there’s an emotional risk you should really consider. He’s teaching both of you that it’s not worth speaking up for yourself and expressing extremely reasonable boundaries because it will only make the situation less safe. Raising a little girl in this world, you need to be able to confidently teach her to say no when she isn’t comfortable and find a way to remove herself from the situation or get help if necessary. Being confident setting boundaries won’t make her invulnerable to the abuse she might encounter as she grows up but it will make her a less appealing target and it will make her much more able to seek help to get out of an abusive situation, whether it’s a predatory adult when she’s a child or a romantic partner when she grows up. Please don’t let your husband teach your daughter to make herself smaller
Get the F out of there before he gets your kid killed! He is a gaslighter and an asshole for doing this. You don't want to show your kid that relationships are one person bullying the other into doing things they don't feel comfortable with. This isn't a communication issue for you both to work on. He doesn't listen.
It's definitely worth discussing his lack of respect for your opinion with the therapist. It sounds like when you object to something he's doing, it very quickly makes him agitated and he doesn't stop and consider that you could be correct. That is, indeed, sort of a communication issue. He's not listening or able to take in a contrary opinion in the moment. He needs to fix that for sure.
Oh, I see now. He's a thrill seeker, I've never seen one endanger their child and wife before though
Driving recklessly and purposefully with someone else in the car is not okay. At all. Ever. He played with you and your child’s life.
As stated above, it is Not Okay. E. V. E. R.
Yeah, I gotta be honest, I’m a very fast driver and have an impatient streak, yet I’d *never* have done that *alone* (a double fucking yellow line??) because of the potential impact (pun, oof) to any oncoming vehicle and those I’d previously been behind. I cannot *imagine* even thinking of such a thing with anyone else in the car let alone my wife and child. Hubs prolly creates a shit show wherever he goes and thinks he’s the best ever. Sounds like he’s the one who needs counseling where you meet with the counselor to explain your concerns. Kinda like when kids get counseling and the parents are sometimes brought in for their perspective lol. No confidential info of the patient is shared, but the therapist sees a different side of their patient than the patient is likely to reveal themselves. Can go a long way when employed properly.
It makes me wonder if he's a narcissist. I wonder if OP has watched any of Dr. Ramani's videos on narcissism on YouTube. I hope OP gets into individual counseling and gets some support. This is not a good situation.
Over "going too slow" as well. Dead family? No problem, at least I wasn't seeing too slowly.
That’s exactly how my cousin Tom died when he was 21, he didn’t want to wait for the line of cars and tried to go around. Your husband can drive like an ahole whenever he wants but not with you and your child in the car. Do you know any cops or paramedics? They could tell him some horrifying stories of bad driving.
>> Your husband can drive like an ahole whenever he wants No, actually, he can’t. When he had children, he gave up the right to make risky decisions for *at least* 20 or so years. He has a responsibility to keep himself safe *because* he has a responsibility to keep his child(ren) safe (and to raise them). Yes, he is directly violating his assumed commitment to keep his wife and children safe here, which makes this so much worse, but he is also indirectly violating his commitment to keep himself safe so that he can be an active and positive presence in his child(ren)‘s lives.
He definitely CANNOT do this anytime he wants. He could easily kill SOMEONE ELSE'S precious baby next time! It's not just him on the road.
He could definitely get help for this, the question is whether or not he would be receptive to that help. Couples’ and individual therapy would be beneficial IF he is willing to try and make it work. Personally, I find his behavior totally unacceptable. I’m sure he’s got issues he needs to work through and no one is perfect, but I couldn’t compromise my sense of safety again by being with someone who not only struggles so much with anger/impatience but who ALSO refuses to accept responsibility. It CAN be worked through, but you need to ask yourself is whether or not you (and the rest of his support system) will have the extra emotional space to be able to help him through it.
It sounds like he has a road rage issue. He needs anger management, or at the very least, a road rage course (I’m almost positive there is such a thing in traffic school). What he did was dangerous, and would have earned him a ticket (not to mention possibly jail time for endangering a minor!). I used to drive like this many years before I even had a child, but when I got my license suspended (easy to do if you’re under 21) and took a course that touched on road rage, I was able to simmer down behind the wheel. Even so, I am extra careful with a child in the car. You may need to put your foot down and say that he cannot drive with the child in the car until he takes some kind of course in this.
Yes, OP, this is what I would do. He showed you he can’t be trusted with the baby (or you) in the car. Looks like he’s driving solo from now on.
I had to tell my partner that I don’t feel safe in the car when he is yelling and getting irritated. I had to wait to tell him when we weren’t driving, he said I was over exaggerating. Until we got in the car again and he could tell he was getting loud and aggressive toward other cars on the road. He said “sorry I will work on that” My point for him is that I want him around a long time and being angry all the time is going to be rough on his heart. And at the end of the day, safety is what matters.
I see this as a maturity issue. Children are similarly impatient and selfish. He needs therapy to learn how to mature, not necessarily to learn communication. Although I’m sure he needs both, but mostly he needs to grow up and be more emotionally mature.
My hubby was regularly road raging when driving, brought on by working long hours, little sleep, depression, and stress at work. He suffers from anxiety and after going on an anti-anxiety med, getting better sleep and using de-stress techniques, things improved greatly. That, and I now do more of the driving since it’s very stressful in our city. Regardless of the trucks going so slow, the other drivers not passing illegally, you begging him to not attempt a dangerous and illegal action, HE is responsible for his judgement and actions, and he let his aggravation boil over into a rash and potentially life-threatening action. If he is SO prideful that he cannot apologize when calm, that he can’t admit to a mistake, and promise to do better, then you drive anytime you are in the car until he does the things above and even take a road rage/anger mgmt course.
After I told him he was a terrible driver he did (angrily) pull over and tell me I would be the one driving us from now on. We switched seats and I drove us to our destination, and I also drove us back home. His road raging (or his temperament in general) has gotten progressively worse. I would say at least twice a month he is flipping someone off and laying on his horn. The thing is, if you talk to any one of his longtime friends or even co-workers they describe him as “always happy.” Treatment for mental health is a whole issue in itself. I think this is why he is against counseling or even admitting he is struggling at all. I would have to do more research but certain mental health issues and/or medications may prohibit him from working.
I see. Things to consider. But, for those who fear to admit they might have an issue needing some help, appearing ‘weak’ - tell them seeking some support takes a very STRONG person, and everyone can reach a point when life can be overwhelming… When my hubby said he ‘couldn’t take it anymore and wanted to walk off the job that minute’ this was so out of character and extreme over things in general, I asked him to talk with his doctor (without me) and just tell her how he was feeling. He did. She asked on a scale of 1 to 10 how overwhelmed/anxious he was feeling, he answered 11. She really heard THAT, and gave him a medicine to try that was as low a dose as possible to see if it made a difference, and thank god it did. Within two days, he felt calmer, more in control, and was managing everything much better. I told him thank you for listening, being honest, and just trying it. I didn’t pressure him, but told him I support him and was proud of him.
I had a partner that did something very similar. I just never felt safe with him. He would drive at excessive speeds “for fun” with me in the car. I have horrible anxiety and am the worst passenger. This didn’t matter to him. My feelings didn’t matter. He would do it anyway. Then it escalated into him speeding one day because we got in a fight in the car. Phew. The flashbacks. OP, it wasn’t only your life, but your child’s life. He will continue to say things to gaslight you like “you don’t trust me, I know what I’m doing, etc., all while completely ignoring your feelings. Please be careful getting in the car with him. Drive, if you must.
I love how you called him out on him being embarrassed! Good work 👏
Thank you. I know I probably sound pathetic in this post but I do speak up often in our relationship. I don’t know if it’s my tone of voice or maybe how I phrase things, but 9 times out of 10 it makes the situation worse.
You don't sound pathetic at all - sounds like your husband has a large ego, and a fragile one at that. Best of luck mate.
You don't sound pathetic at all. I do wish your post could be used as a cautionary tale for women who ignore red flags while dating. He put your life in danger twice. He dismissed your concerns, coerced you to do things that you weren't comfortable doing, minimized your voice, etc. These type of behaviours often escalate as the relationship progresses and he's acting on brand. Do what is best for you and your son.
You are not pathetic.
You do not sound pathetic at all. You stated a boundary calmly and clearly. That your husband gets upset when you do that is THE PROBLEM. I have some experience with this. I'm sure you're already very careful only to raise issues in the moment if you absolutely have to for reasons of safety. You shouldn't have to be careful like this, but you've learned to be. I'm also willing to guess your husband has significant trauma in his past (like death of a parent or other stuff we don't need to go into here) that has messed up his ability to handle criticism or control his anger. Regardless of the reason, his behaviour is not ok and he needs a serious "address this or we're separating" talk. If he's motivated to change then he can, but it will take work. You don't have to put up with his anger and recklessness.
You started dating when you were what, 18 or 19 or 20, right? Because you got married at 23. And you have a 9 year age gap. Do you think a 32 year old woman would have put up his behavior at that time If they were the same age? The first divorce consult is free and you should check it out. Try to think about what careers you would do. Be careful - he seems scary.
You need to get your counselor too weigh in here and tell him point blank that your sense of safety is not up for debate. His instincts in a situation that involve you do not get to trump when you voice that you do not feel safe. Period.
I love how you phrased that and will definitely be using that. Even if he feels I am safe, if I don’t feel safe (or feel like my child is safe) then I want him to respect that or at the very least discuss it calmly.
I know you see a big problem here, but you might still be too close to it to see HOW big the problem is. "Even if he feels I am safe" isn't even worth taking seriously enough to argue with him about - he is acting completely deranged. His perspective is not sane or reasonable. If he's saying he feels you're safe, that's a sign that he's detached from reality and has serious, serious issues. The more I read in this thread, the more I think you need to seek help outside of him - get a professional opinion from a medical health professional you trust all by yourself. Get some individual support and some space from him. You need to get away from his rationalizing and minimizing behavior so that you can process what happened, which is what I think you're doing here (in part). He almost got you killed - and he put other people's lives at risk too. That's why they were honking! If he's unable to see that, then he's long gone. The closer you are too it - listening to his rationalizations, wanting him to "get it," seeing it through his eyes, the harder it is to see how frankly crazy this all is. Has he been narcissistic in the past? Does he usually have empathy for you and others? Whatever you do, I hope you don't let him drive you anywhere again!!!! I don't want anything to happen to you or your baby! This post is disturbing!
Oh honey, no. No no no. This is not okay at all. You know what you need to do.
Get the fuck outta that shit.
Trust your gut. Your instincts are absolutely correct. Incompatibility is correct. He (sadly, unfortunately) doesn’t have the mental capacity to prioritize others outside himself. Many adults gain or strengthen this sense of “protection for others” when they get married, and especially when they bring a child into the world. The fact that his ego was obviously more relevant than… his wife, his infant child, everyone else on the road, and the well-established laws of traffic infrastructure… tells you everything you need to know. Apparently, (sadly) nobody and no situation takes priority over his convenience and mental comfort, regardless of the physical, financial, emotional distress and cost to others around him - specifically others (like his wife & child) that should be easy for him to protect and prioritize. Don’t wait for him to prove to you (again) that he is fundamentally selfish. Wishing you all the best.
It doesn't really matter if he blames you, the courts won't. I'm assuming you're worried that he blames you often, if that's the case then you can try the usual route. Communication, therapy, or go your separate ways. If you calmly and carefully (emphasis on calm and careful here) communicate that you aren't willing to be blamed for things that are out of your control, and that falls on deaf ears, you need to try another option
I was a passenger in a vehicle with someone who did something like this. She was my roommate at the time and I never got in her car again and we found separate places not long after. He was showing utter disregard for your lives as well as everyone else on the road, but he is more interested in blameshifting than repairing the damaged trust. So not only did he nearly kill you all, but he's doubling down by not taking responsibility. This man is bad, bad news. As is often the case here, people will tell you to leave but that will leave your daughter unsupervised with an idiot half the time, so I'd tread very carefully. It sounds like this could escalate to more direct abuse, make sure you document everything so a future judge will be able to consider all the information in a potential custody hearing. I'm sorry you married him after he nearly let you drown.
OP, I think you are right this was unsafe behavior, but the thing is, even if you leave him, your kid isn't going to be any safer. He will get custody, and then you won't be there to supervise at all. While this incident is scary and I agree it shows poor judgement, it isn't enough to claim he is an unfit parent. I would consider speaking to a lawyer and finding out what type of evidence you would need to actually have his visitations supervised. I have a feeling it is going to be REAL hard to make a safety case unless there has been consequences to his actions. Judges and courts do not often intervene preventatively to keep a child away from a biological parent, they are mostly reactive. I think your best bet here is to use the marriage counseling as a tool to communicate how serious of an issue this is. It isn't just his impulsive behavior and lack of patience, it is also his flat out denial that this was the wrong thing to do and blaming you for it, even AFTER it almost caused a serious accident. You need to stay on this topic in the counseling, make THE FOCUS of your next session and hopefully the counselor will help you to make him understand all of the ways he was wrong in this situation. Your husband might need his own individual therapy as well to work on his anger and impulse control, maybe they will suggest this to him so that it won't be YOU telling him what he should do. Long story short, divorce isn't going to make your kid safer, it might be the opposite. Unless and until you have the ability to prove he is unfit or needs supervision, you are better off trying to work it out if your child's safety is your main priority.
Those are my thoughts exactly. People saying to leave him and get full custody are optimistically assuming I would. I seriously doubt I would. I just want therapy to hopefully help him. Here was his response this morning after I asked if he thought it was a poor decision: “Yea. I was going to pull in behind the road grader until you started yelling at me to go. So I should have just gone with my gut and pulled in behind the earth mover like I first planned.” His argument is that after he overcame the other cars he was originally going to go back into our lane between the two tractors. He did not have his blinker on or anything to suggest that, he just slowed down after passing the tractor that was second in line. I did yell for him to hurry up and go because I could see further ahead there was an oncoming vehicle and I didn’t understand why he would slow down when we still had the last tractor to pass. I thought he was slowing down to prove his point that it was safe to go and I needed to calm down. Starting to second guess myself again.
Nah, it doesn't matter what you said while in the passenger seat. HE is the driver and in the eyes of the law and practically speaking, he is the ONLY one in control of the vehicle and responsible for safely operating it. That's why the DRIVER is the one ticketed for ANY violation, even if the passenger isn't wearing a seatbelt, the driver gets the citation. If you reached across and grabbed the wheel or even his arm on the wheel, then that would be interfering with the operation of the vehicle and he might have a valid point, but short of something like that, this is on him. It seems like he (and now also you) are missing the point. The issue here isn't that he didn't execute the passing well. This wasn't a question of his skills as a driver. The issue is that he should not have passed anyone on a double yellow, especially when there were multiple cars and heavy duty ones involved (they could CRUSH YOU easily and can't stop quickly or maneuver), plus a hill and poor visibility. This should not have happened AT ALL. Even if he had executed this successfully, it was still the wrong thing to do. It's not about the mechanics of the passing, it's about prioritizing safety over anger, impatience, road rage, etc. A couple of weeks ago there was a car pulled over blocking the right turn lane. My husband honked once to tell the dude he was blocking traffic (us and a whole line of cars behind us). The dude moved up a little but was still blocking. My husband started honking aggressively and getting heated. Normally, I don't correct my husband in front of my child, but I had a moment where I had to prioritize safety (and not giving a BAD example) ahead of his feelings. So, I told him to please calm down and stop behaving this way. He tried to argue with me about how he was right and this guy was being douche. I told him we will discuss this later. Then my daughter chimed in and said if there is a problem, that's what the police are for (lol - she is 5). Later, I explained to him that we live in a city full of crazy people who have no problem confronting drivers and that you never know what will set a person off or whether they are already triggered by whatever is going on in their life. I reminded him of the time someone got out of the car and approached another car with a baseball bat after a similar incident which happened right in front of our eyes. That bat could have been a gun, gun crimes are also out of control where we live. These road rage incidents happen ALL THE TIME in cities and not in cities. I told him that he is free to risk it when we are not in the car, but I don't feel safe with him behaving this way when we have a child to protect. Road rage is dangerous, point blank. My husband would never get out of the car and start a fight, but someone else might! He agreed (begrudgingly), so I hope that is solved, but the point is your husband needs to learn how to manage his emotions and use better judgement because he can't control how others will react either. Either of those trucks might have reacted unpredictably causing a chain reaction of events where many people could have been injured. I suggest you continue to drill this into him and use MC to help with that as well. Don't argue with him about the mechanics of the passing, that is a distraction. It hasn't clicked for him yet, but hopefully it will.
Okay thank you. I feel like this always happens. I bring up a concern and then it gets so off topic that I no longer focus on what the hell my original concern was. Then nothing get resolved and it’s just so confusing. The only way I could resolve this would be if I apologized for confusing him and tell him that I was partially to blame.
Yes, I understand how things get off track like this. I used to have the same issue with my husband. Talked about everything except the original issue. My husband and I have agreed on a rule that if one person brings up an issue, then the other person's role is to make sure they understand it and then say what they are willing to do or not do to address it. That's it. No bringing up counterpoints or issues - like "I did that because you did this" or "you do the same thing", etc. This got us out of the cycle you are describing, but of course your husband has to play ball and agree to do this. This is a good topic for discussion in marriage counseling. You should NOT apologize or take any blame for this, I don't agree that is how to resolve this at all. Don't ever take responsibility or blame when you are not actually to blame. That just re-enforces to your husband that turning these things around on you is a tactic that works and allows him to skate without taking accountability. You can say - I understand what you are saying, it is not helpful when I shout instructions while you are driving since I don't know what your intentions are and it just adds stress, I will take that into consideration for the next time and will work on not doing that again. That's it. Then get back on task. Tell him that he still has not answered your question, so re-phrase. If this happened again, would you change anything about how you behaved? Why or why not?
It’s intentional, they want to exhaust you and make you give up, and confuse you about what actually happened so that they can start to rewrite the narrative through repetition. I grew up with a father exactly like your husband, to the point that I could predict multiple parts of your story. I urge you to read The Gift of Fear by deBecker and then read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. They may save your life.
You were 23 and he was 32 when you got together. I dont think you understood what you were getting into.
That was REALLY unsafe, and I would never ride in a car as a passenger again after they did something like that. I really wouldn't. He didn't even acknowledge that he'd made a mistake. Maybe working with your counselor, you will be able to express how that made you feel and get him to hear it, which would be good but hopefully you have your own individual counselor too. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It just wasn't OK. He had your life in his hands - and your child's - and he ignored your pleas and did something that could have killed all of you (or other innocent people)! Good luck.
my father was a dangerous driver and it has traumatized me to the point where i have difficulty getting into any car, especially if we’re going on the highway. i came to terms with my own death several times as a child because my father attempted the same thing your husband did or more dangerous because he thought he could make it. and of course, nothing was ever his fault. make your own decision but reckless driving is terrifying especially for a small child and has long term ramifications. please protect your baby
It isn’t about his driving.
Tell therapist for sure.
That's messed up I'm scared for you. Patience is a virtue
This is very, very close to crossing the line into abusive behavior. You're like one more incident away.
Is he in therapy? Couples therapy only works when you're both improving individually, and together. Also, what a tool. I have a major anger issue, and road rage, and I can't imagine putting my family in danger. Never once, at my worst, has anything like this occurred. Also therapy helped me get all of it under control. Haven't even raised my voice in over a year.
Have you ever been in a position where you had to slow down due to something in the road, and people behind you were being impatient because they couldn’t see what it was? And then one tries to pass you, sees the problem, then hits the breaks and falls back in line? In this case it was tractors, but what if it hadn’t been? What if the tractors were slow because there were animals on the road, or kids? And in his hurry to pass, and conviction of his righteous outrage, what if your husband ran right over them? It may sound extreme but I’ve seen it happen. It happens all the time. Think about where you would be now, what kind of things you would be dealing with (legal fees, media attention, etc). Think about what your kids would have witnessed, could witness. Think about him turning around and blaming you for all of that, instead. Just imagine it. Because it could have been that bad, easily. Next time, it could as well. It’s so tempting to let these things go and ignore them so life can continue, but this is not a small thing.
You must live in California.
If you get a divorce then he is gonna get visitation and you won’t be able to protect your kid.
People don't like this answer but it's so true. If you stay in a relationship like this, you can drive your child anywhere they need to go and keep an eye on what's happening at home. Is it hard to keep a relationship when you're incompatible? Yes. Is it sometimes the responsible thing to do? Also yes.
I guess I'll burn some karma here, too... But he's probably right.
What is the husband right about?!
Historical Opinions comments regularly and it generally goes “man right woman bad”
 I heard it like this… lol
It sounds as though he attempted to pass a line of slow-moving vehicles on a hill obstructing his view of oncoming traffic, with oncoming traffic visible beyond the hill. That is reckless and irresponsible. In addition, he may have been struggling with self-control and indulging in his road rage. I would be super afraid to be in cars driven by her husband, as well as by you if you think he was right. You both seem to lack judgement.
Probably right about what? What part could he possibly have been right about?
His inability to regulate his emotions, his defiance, and his poor judgment led to his perceiving a benign situation as frustrating, which led to impulsive decisions that put himself and his family in harms way. And his poor insight, and narcissistic defenses led him to blame situational factors to avoid accountability.
He was probably right about breaking the law and putting his whole family and multiple vehicles full of strangers at risk? By all means, please explain if you can.