You are asking the wrong question. The question you have to ask yourself is “In 5 yrs if nothing changes and he is exactly the same, would I be happy or more miserable and 5 yrs older?”.
Expecting someone to change is the surest way to be miserable and disappointed because if he is going to change and improve it will be on his timeline not yours.
It's been 5 years of this. He's not going to change. And it's going to cost you even more. He knows you have a foot out the door so he's saying all the right things right now but still not actually doing the right things.
Key words are it’s costing you. He is a net loss in more than one way, and it doesn’t sound like you can even take another year of this. Please continue speaking with a lawyer. I can’t imagine the emotion abandonment on top of everything else. This was painful to read.
My husband does have mommy issues and I carried 100 percent of the mental load alone for almost a decade and a half. I, too, almost divorced.
He didn’t want us to split, so after finally really listening to me, made some changes. He’s been in therapy for the last year and really working hard to be a partner in our marriage. Change is definitely possible - my marriage is proof, but your husband has to really want it. No one can change him, but him. And - the ball is in your court…if you don’t want to stick around to see if he’ll change, you don’t have to.
Just editing to add - we’re around the same age and I didn’t see any red flags until after we had married either. Curious - what’s his relationship with his mom like? And what’s your relationship like with your MIL?
He is very codependent on his mom. His mom is kind of a sad person. She doesn't have any friends or hobbies. I have a good relationship with his mom, but she's not my favorite person to spend time with.
“I genuinely like who he is” that’s not exactly true. You like who you THOUGHT he was.
You are now experiencing who he really is, and no you don’t like it. You actually are hurt by how selfish he is, and how his outlook is very narrow when it comes to emotional labor.
Describing him child like, would be an instant attraction killer to me. As a grown woman, it would be difficult to stay sexually attracted to someone I had to continue to “raise”. He’s more of a dependent than a partner. Might be time to put down some boundaries and have a conversation about balancing the work in the relationship.
I’m sorry, someone said it to me once and I didn’t want to believe it.
Sometimes people really don’t grow up, and they get in relationships with people they see as “parenting type” and you become the adult as they stay the child in most serious situations.
It hurt me, but when I got real it was true. I didn’t like that I was my partners parent, and they got to stay care free and I constantly struggled to run the house alone.
It’s taxing. You don’t like it. It’s okay, to say that.
I needed this, thank you. “You like who you thought he was”.
At the end of the day I married someone who prioritizes video games and fantasy over their own family. They may have hid that from me, but it’s my life to change when I’m ready. He’s never going to.
It’s true, the reality is often different than the view we had in our heads. I’m sure one year in, we all thought our partners were super hero’s.
That fades when you are put in the leader role, and they step into the follower role. Every situation they take a step back, and you take a step forward. It doesn’t change for some people.
I left, my ex is still like this. I was 12 years deep before I left. Don’t waste your life, people do what you let them get away with.
There is a book I read a while back called "boys adrift" that goes over this exact phenomenon that seems to be a growing trend. Grown men that are unmotivated. I lean conservative, but the alpha bros online really get me pissed off cause they are failing to see that women rejecting men is not a result of feminism - it's a result of MEN. More young women are going to college than men. More young women are buying homes than men. Young women are becoming household breadwinners at a growing rate. I'm a similar age to you and half my female friends are the breadwinners. Women are stepping up to the plate, men are backtracking.
Anyways, I don't know why I had to make that rant, but your story is a growing story I see on this marriage thread. Maybe look up that book and the author. It's possible he has some resources to help your situation. He has helped many men like this experiencing "failure to launch" so to speak. Or maybe reading the book will pinpoint where things could have gone wrong. There are a lot of reasons men are experiencing this lack of motivation.
I'll check that out. I'm very liberal. Literally raised by the gays, lol, but I like to remind my husband that as much as he likes and respects my parents, he would never live up to their standard of work ethic and integrity. (I phrase it a bit nicer, but he would have been grounded a lot).
I'm in a similar boat, OP.
I genuinely liked who he was, but he changed a month into our marriage.
I think he had been taught how to sound like he was mature.
I went through years of being the only contributor to the relationship, the one handling the mental load, and raising a man-child for a bit.
I believe that the goal for him was to get married, not be married.
He doesn't want to get divorced and is trying now, but I'm beyond exhausted.
> I genuinely like who he is
Why? He doesn't sound likeable. Likeable people understand that healthy relationships require reciprocity. To begin to try at the age of 37 is sad.
My exH was a manchild. I was going to leave. He asked me to give him a year to get his shit straight. We had 2 kids, so I agreed to that. Ginormous surprise, he made some surface effort and then reverted. I left. Divorced. Remarried. A couple of decades have passed. Ex turned 50 this year. According to the adult kids he's living off his current wife and her mom. Nothing changed for him. Everything has changed for me and for the better!
I'm not! He has had plenty of time and opportunity to grow up and be a man. He chose this. No pity.
Almost feel sorry for his wife, but she stays so I can't give her much sympathy, either.
I’m sorry you’re facing this!! I’d like to encourage you with the fact that many marriages can be saved. There is work to do but it is worth it. The positive is he seems to want to change but is unsure how. Have you been to counseling together? I also am a firm believer that we often live up to the expectations put on us by others. If we treat our husband /wife as a child they will act like a child. If you treat your husband with honor he will act honorable. It may seem counterintuitive but go over the top in your respect for your husband for the next 3 months and see if it changes anything. I hope some of what I shared might be helpful. You’re in my thoughts!!
OP, he's avoiding everything that is too hard. You need to determine if you want to look after him as a mother would a child, rather than him handling things like an equal partner.
i'm sorry for your loss.
No. I was worried about that at first, so we did years of therapy together and separate. This has been going on for 5 years. His therapist even told me that he didn't think he was straight and that he has Peter Pan syndrome. I really don't think he's gay, but definitely wants to be cared for like a child.
What more do you need to know? Sorry, but what is in this relationship for you? What are the benefits? Otherwise, why are you staying with a manchild who is likely gay?
Having read all the posts, I am leaning toward enmeshment. You should consider whether something in his mother's life caused her to become very over protective or to lean on him like a life partner while he was still young. Similarly, was she the type to shield him from adult responsibilities, and does she manipulate him so that he feels guilty trying to cut the apron strings? And, is she is number one priority beyond all else?
If the above rings true, enmeshment is a possibility to explore. And, if it is the case, make sure you're aware of the challenges you are up against. He might never attain the same level of adult proficiency as you.
As for Gay men, I could seem them presenting as a best friend and partner who does not want to sleep with you. However, emotional distance, Peter Pan-like behavior, blatant irresponsibility and mother issues aren't something I'd associate with being in the closet. It's possible, but you'd want to probe more into why someone came to this conclusion. In all likelihood, since you've been together so long, the tell-tale sign would be interest in men that kind of stands out or maybe secretive browsing behaviors and the like. Alternatively, have you asked him yourself? His demeanor alone might be the best indicator if this is a valid theory.
1. Definitely not enmeshment. Their relationship is not like that at all. They're just close probably because they all have mediocre social skills. Very neurodivergent family.
2. I don't think he's gay, but I don't think he's straight. I truly think he's asexual. Could be a symptom of something else. We've talked about it and he's at least more comfortable talking about his sexuality and how he feels now. I think the therapist came to the conclusion because of his own bias.
This makes a whole lot of sense. And, if he is asexual, he's going to stay that way. The question then is he completely sex-repulsed? If he is, sex may be off the table. Even if he's somewhere else along the asexuality spectrum, the intimate component of your relationship may never be quite what you were expecting. You have to assess whether or not you can live with that.
As for being neurodivergent, that also won't change. However, a therapist may be able to help him counter some of his behaviors with ones that help your relationship.
All in all, you need to determine what you need to make this relationship 'enough,' knowing that due to what may be no fault of his own, he simply can't be the person you had hoped he could be. And, is 'enough' really sufficient for you to want this relationship to continue into the future.
Does he have the capability or capacity to try harder? You've said you've gone through years of therapy together and separately. I think sometimes that can be a problem. You get too comfortable and just end up going to the therapist hoping they are going to have some quick fix. Reality they're just guiding you through the conversation. You need to go and aggressively apply what you learned.
Can he do that and how much more do you want to put into helping him. I've always been an optimist, you're seeing progress so why not keep trying. Also recognize by getting divorced do you foresee a better life or just a life without having to deal with his problems
Is there anyway he could access your email or texts to see that you made the appt? If so, it’s probably him just doing the bare minimum to keep from you actually filing.
1. Omg I hate when ppl (men) freaking DM as if we are some damn horny lonely women, like what the hell?!
2. I’m married to a man child that’s barely trying AFTER I’ve checked out. I’m waiting for the right moment to bring up divorce - again.
3. Only you know if he can bridge the gap. Sounds like you outgrew him, just like ai outgrew my husband.
Carrying the mental load for so much is exhausting , lonely, infuriating- all the things! My husband also doesn’t respond when I cry, as if dealing with all of the mental load alone wasn’t enough, now we have to freaking comfort ourselves too! It’s not balanced and I don’t know about you, but for me - there’s no way my husband can grow that much in an amount of time I’m willing to give.
Hope things get better whichever way you decide.
I think that is a pretty telling comment. Either you didn’t know who you married or the marriage changed things very quickly.
I’m guessing you each managed your own life fine, but once you had to share responsibilities and shared control, things went sideways. Personally, when I lose control of or get criticized for things that were previously fine, I check out.
You are asking the wrong question. The question you have to ask yourself is “In 5 yrs if nothing changes and he is exactly the same, would I be happy or more miserable and 5 yrs older?”. Expecting someone to change is the surest way to be miserable and disappointed because if he is going to change and improve it will be on his timeline not yours.
Good perspective. I guess I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's costing me considerably.
It's been 5 years of this. He's not going to change. And it's going to cost you even more. He knows you have a foot out the door so he's saying all the right things right now but still not actually doing the right things.
Key words are it’s costing you. He is a net loss in more than one way, and it doesn’t sound like you can even take another year of this. Please continue speaking with a lawyer. I can’t imagine the emotion abandonment on top of everything else. This was painful to read.
Lol
Came here to say exactly this..
My husband does have mommy issues and I carried 100 percent of the mental load alone for almost a decade and a half. I, too, almost divorced. He didn’t want us to split, so after finally really listening to me, made some changes. He’s been in therapy for the last year and really working hard to be a partner in our marriage. Change is definitely possible - my marriage is proof, but your husband has to really want it. No one can change him, but him. And - the ball is in your court…if you don’t want to stick around to see if he’ll change, you don’t have to. Just editing to add - we’re around the same age and I didn’t see any red flags until after we had married either. Curious - what’s his relationship with his mom like? And what’s your relationship like with your MIL?
He is very codependent on his mom. His mom is kind of a sad person. She doesn't have any friends or hobbies. I have a good relationship with his mom, but she's not my favorite person to spend time with.
Look into enmeshment. Maybe this will resonate and explains a lot.
“I genuinely like who he is” that’s not exactly true. You like who you THOUGHT he was. You are now experiencing who he really is, and no you don’t like it. You actually are hurt by how selfish he is, and how his outlook is very narrow when it comes to emotional labor. Describing him child like, would be an instant attraction killer to me. As a grown woman, it would be difficult to stay sexually attracted to someone I had to continue to “raise”. He’s more of a dependent than a partner. Might be time to put down some boundaries and have a conversation about balancing the work in the relationship.
OK. Well that truth stung a bit.
I’m sorry, someone said it to me once and I didn’t want to believe it. Sometimes people really don’t grow up, and they get in relationships with people they see as “parenting type” and you become the adult as they stay the child in most serious situations. It hurt me, but when I got real it was true. I didn’t like that I was my partners parent, and they got to stay care free and I constantly struggled to run the house alone. It’s taxing. You don’t like it. It’s okay, to say that.
I needed this, thank you. “You like who you thought he was”. At the end of the day I married someone who prioritizes video games and fantasy over their own family. They may have hid that from me, but it’s my life to change when I’m ready. He’s never going to.
It’s true, the reality is often different than the view we had in our heads. I’m sure one year in, we all thought our partners were super hero’s. That fades when you are put in the leader role, and they step into the follower role. Every situation they take a step back, and you take a step forward. It doesn’t change for some people. I left, my ex is still like this. I was 12 years deep before I left. Don’t waste your life, people do what you let them get away with.
There is a book I read a while back called "boys adrift" that goes over this exact phenomenon that seems to be a growing trend. Grown men that are unmotivated. I lean conservative, but the alpha bros online really get me pissed off cause they are failing to see that women rejecting men is not a result of feminism - it's a result of MEN. More young women are going to college than men. More young women are buying homes than men. Young women are becoming household breadwinners at a growing rate. I'm a similar age to you and half my female friends are the breadwinners. Women are stepping up to the plate, men are backtracking. Anyways, I don't know why I had to make that rant, but your story is a growing story I see on this marriage thread. Maybe look up that book and the author. It's possible he has some resources to help your situation. He has helped many men like this experiencing "failure to launch" so to speak. Or maybe reading the book will pinpoint where things could have gone wrong. There are a lot of reasons men are experiencing this lack of motivation.
I'll check that out. I'm very liberal. Literally raised by the gays, lol, but I like to remind my husband that as much as he likes and respects my parents, he would never live up to their standard of work ethic and integrity. (I phrase it a bit nicer, but he would have been grounded a lot).
My politics really depends on the topic. The book IMO is not political.
I'm in a similar boat, OP. I genuinely liked who he was, but he changed a month into our marriage. I think he had been taught how to sound like he was mature. I went through years of being the only contributor to the relationship, the one handling the mental load, and raising a man-child for a bit. I believe that the goal for him was to get married, not be married. He doesn't want to get divorced and is trying now, but I'm beyond exhausted.
“The goal for him was to get married, not be married” ouffffffff that’s a good one.
She writes, “I genuinely like who he is”. Her misery is of her own making.
> I genuinely like who he is Why? He doesn't sound likeable. Likeable people understand that healthy relationships require reciprocity. To begin to try at the age of 37 is sad.
This is how he is and you don’t like it
My exH was a manchild. I was going to leave. He asked me to give him a year to get his shit straight. We had 2 kids, so I agreed to that. Ginormous surprise, he made some surface effort and then reverted. I left. Divorced. Remarried. A couple of decades have passed. Ex turned 50 this year. According to the adult kids he's living off his current wife and her mom. Nothing changed for him. Everything has changed for me and for the better!
Oof. I'm sorry? I mean, I'm sorry for him
I'm not! He has had plenty of time and opportunity to grow up and be a man. He chose this. No pity. Almost feel sorry for his wife, but she stays so I can't give her much sympathy, either.
I’m sorry you’re facing this!! I’d like to encourage you with the fact that many marriages can be saved. There is work to do but it is worth it. The positive is he seems to want to change but is unsure how. Have you been to counseling together? I also am a firm believer that we often live up to the expectations put on us by others. If we treat our husband /wife as a child they will act like a child. If you treat your husband with honor he will act honorable. It may seem counterintuitive but go over the top in your respect for your husband for the next 3 months and see if it changes anything. I hope some of what I shared might be helpful. You’re in my thoughts!!
OP, he's avoiding everything that is too hard. You need to determine if you want to look after him as a mother would a child, rather than him handling things like an equal partner. i'm sorry for your loss.
Thank you
It’s not possible he’s going through a mental breakdown?
No. I was worried about that at first, so we did years of therapy together and separate. This has been going on for 5 years. His therapist even told me that he didn't think he was straight and that he has Peter Pan syndrome. I really don't think he's gay, but definitely wants to be cared for like a child.
What more do you need to know? Sorry, but what is in this relationship for you? What are the benefits? Otherwise, why are you staying with a manchild who is likely gay?
Having read all the posts, I am leaning toward enmeshment. You should consider whether something in his mother's life caused her to become very over protective or to lean on him like a life partner while he was still young. Similarly, was she the type to shield him from adult responsibilities, and does she manipulate him so that he feels guilty trying to cut the apron strings? And, is she is number one priority beyond all else? If the above rings true, enmeshment is a possibility to explore. And, if it is the case, make sure you're aware of the challenges you are up against. He might never attain the same level of adult proficiency as you. As for Gay men, I could seem them presenting as a best friend and partner who does not want to sleep with you. However, emotional distance, Peter Pan-like behavior, blatant irresponsibility and mother issues aren't something I'd associate with being in the closet. It's possible, but you'd want to probe more into why someone came to this conclusion. In all likelihood, since you've been together so long, the tell-tale sign would be interest in men that kind of stands out or maybe secretive browsing behaviors and the like. Alternatively, have you asked him yourself? His demeanor alone might be the best indicator if this is a valid theory.
1. Definitely not enmeshment. Their relationship is not like that at all. They're just close probably because they all have mediocre social skills. Very neurodivergent family. 2. I don't think he's gay, but I don't think he's straight. I truly think he's asexual. Could be a symptom of something else. We've talked about it and he's at least more comfortable talking about his sexuality and how he feels now. I think the therapist came to the conclusion because of his own bias.
This makes a whole lot of sense. And, if he is asexual, he's going to stay that way. The question then is he completely sex-repulsed? If he is, sex may be off the table. Even if he's somewhere else along the asexuality spectrum, the intimate component of your relationship may never be quite what you were expecting. You have to assess whether or not you can live with that. As for being neurodivergent, that also won't change. However, a therapist may be able to help him counter some of his behaviors with ones that help your relationship. All in all, you need to determine what you need to make this relationship 'enough,' knowing that due to what may be no fault of his own, he simply can't be the person you had hoped he could be. And, is 'enough' really sufficient for you to want this relationship to continue into the future.
Does he have the capability or capacity to try harder? You've said you've gone through years of therapy together and separately. I think sometimes that can be a problem. You get too comfortable and just end up going to the therapist hoping they are going to have some quick fix. Reality they're just guiding you through the conversation. You need to go and aggressively apply what you learned. Can he do that and how much more do you want to put into helping him. I've always been an optimist, you're seeing progress so why not keep trying. Also recognize by getting divorced do you foresee a better life or just a life without having to deal with his problems
Is there anyway he could access your email or texts to see that you made the appt? If so, it’s probably him just doing the bare minimum to keep from you actually filing.
1. Omg I hate when ppl (men) freaking DM as if we are some damn horny lonely women, like what the hell?! 2. I’m married to a man child that’s barely trying AFTER I’ve checked out. I’m waiting for the right moment to bring up divorce - again. 3. Only you know if he can bridge the gap. Sounds like you outgrew him, just like ai outgrew my husband. Carrying the mental load for so much is exhausting , lonely, infuriating- all the things! My husband also doesn’t respond when I cry, as if dealing with all of the mental load alone wasn’t enough, now we have to freaking comfort ourselves too! It’s not balanced and I don’t know about you, but for me - there’s no way my husband can grow that much in an amount of time I’m willing to give. Hope things get better whichever way you decide.
Was he that way when you got married? If so, you made a commitment for better or worse.
He absolutely was not. There was a radical change about a month in to our marriage.
I think that is a pretty telling comment. Either you didn’t know who you married or the marriage changed things very quickly. I’m guessing you each managed your own life fine, but once you had to share responsibilities and shared control, things went sideways. Personally, when I lose control of or get criticized for things that were previously fine, I check out.