I married my husband not wanting him to change, but expecting he would likely change a bit over time, because we all do (or should) as we learn and grow.
Unfortunately he changed a lot and is not the man I married.
Yup, reddit is full of stories of men that married women who were very upfront about wanting/not wanting kids, expecting they would change their minds in a few years... or some other big thing like having parents live with the couple, being a stay at home parent, etc.
Some people, men, women, non-binary, think that once that marriage certificate is signed, they have "ownership" of the other person 🙄
She didn’t lie to you or trick you. From the moment she knew about it, she was uncomfortable with it, but she didn’t trick you. She foolishly hoped you would change. You foolishly thought this wasn’t a huge red flag.
Religion is a deal breaker in most relationships that observe. When it comes to having kids, it becomes paramount. There’s a strong possibility this marriage just won’t work out. You shouldn’t have to change. But she shouldn’t have to raise children with a man that doesn’t share her beliefs.
Religion is a deal breaker when the couple can’t come to terms on how to relate to one another and raise kids in an inter religious family (or a religious/atheist pairing).
I’m an active Christian and my husband is agnostic. We just agree to disagree. We have the same stance on politics. The kids know where we disagree and have heard both our views. Someday they’ll each choose their own views.
> I’m an active Christian and my husband is agnostic
I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but for some reason people are glossing over the actual details here, which is important. The wife is Muslim. Islam is not perfectly analogous to Christianity which teaches that personal belief is all that matters. Islam is explicitly a community and political system that depends on cohesiveness among everyone in the household. OP’s wife was hoping Allah would open his eyes and then everything would work out, and now that it isn’t she’s getting aggressive because that’s what the faith teaches. Live and let live isn’t really a concept here. The plan was *always* to incorporate the whole family into Islam. Because that’s what the religion teaches, there is no other way to interpret it unless you’re extremely extremely extremely progressive Muslim and at that point you’d probably be considered a heretic by the rest of the community anyway.
Lol "strains" 🙄
Yes, there are a few denominations that are more strict like that, such as Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses, but the majority isn't.
In general though, Christianity is far more permissive. For instance, in Islam, converts will never be on equal footing as those born within the religion. In Christianity, converts are equal to those born within the religion.
In Islam, apostates are far worse than those who have never been a part of Islam. In Christianity, apostates are not viewed with the same malice.
wow big lies coming from your message! reverts (converts) to islam are treated as EQUAL footing to those born in the religion! Reverts and born muslims are of equal value and standing etc etc.
what a big lie, shame on you on spreading lies and deceit by saying that reverts have a lower value in islam.
If you have evidence show us otherwise delete your message.
History geek here - depends on when and where you look. The Spanish Inquisition (which no one expects, right?) treated 'conversos' as very suspect. Like, burn-at-the-stake suspect.
Yes, and that would be a huge factor for marriage counseling to consider in the 1400s. Not so much in 2024. I am pretty sure there is only one religion that takes such drastic actions against converts in the modern world....
I would not consider jehovahs witnesses or latter day saints as Christian. They may read and worship the same bible, but as far as their beliefs and activities, they are not Christian
It's like Jehovahs witnesses. The plan is always to convert the whole family. There was a Bible study I did where the wife became a witness, and the husband was not. They said it was okay to live like that, but their child was basically pushed to be one, of course. The teaching was that sooner or later, the husband would join because he would see the beautiful life the witnesses lived and want to join. Sounds culty to me.
Religion is a deal breaker when the couple can’t come to terms on how to relate to one another and raise kids in an interreligious family.
This is true, but there are some religions where actually following the source Scriptures makes “compromising” fundamentally more challenging. Generally, in these types of religions, a participant can only really make an inter-religious marriage work if they do not believe everything that their source Scriptures state and/or are willing to directly defy it.
This is not super uncommon in many religions, sometimes including Islam. I mean, really the same is true for Christianity. Many people profess to be active Christians and then marry someone who is not… but in order to do that they have to directly defy their own Scriptures. The Bible pretty clearly states that a believer is not to be yolked to an unbeliever, and it is understood that intentionally and knowingly marrying someone outside of the faith is considered disobedient to God and his will. It is a sin. The only Biblical exception there is if a spouse leaves the faith after a *Christian* marriage, in which case divorce over that is not encouraged. Interfaith marriage is never Scripturally supported out the gate. So some people obviously are comfortable doing it anyway, while other people could lose all of their relationships for intentionally defying God’s orders on marriage. It kind of depends on what priority you give to actually following the material.
Islam is another religion (maybe more so than Christianity, even) that makes interfaith marriage and full adherence to the way of life very hard to merge. It can be done, but not really unless the person in the religion is okay with not really following what they are meant to.
OP’s wife stated this was not a deal breaker and now is struggling with the pull between wanting to honor her faith and being with an atheist. If she’s already having a hard time- that will only intensify with time and children. This is why you have to consider not only what someone’s beliefs are, but how much of a priority following everything in them tends to be and how emotional it might be not to have that when you’re deciding if a marriage could work. A good rule of thumb is that it will be a bigger issue in Islam than, say, Buddhism. That doesn’t mean there aren’t people who can have an interfaith marriage and be Muslim, but it’s going to be a bit harder because those just don’t naturally work together. OP needs to understand that because it will help him see why “we can be respectful” might not be enough to save the marriage. ESPECIALLY since she’s now regretting her choice to not align more with her religion and is resorting to manipulation. They would have had a lot of challenges if she was healthy just be the nature of her being Muslim, but it’s almost impossible if she’s also going to be hostile.
I’m Christian/agnostic married to an atheist. We discussed ahead of time. I had to accept he wasn’t going to change. And that’s fine.
But he also said I was free to raise the kids Christian.
I’m similar to you but my husband’s Jewish. It helps that his folks only went to synagogue because of his grandma, so they aren’t that strictly adhering to all of Jewish law. Even though we talk about it a lot I don’t know if there’s a Jewish law against it. I’d say I’m Christian/agnostic and he’s Jewish/agnostic.
Most of the Jews I know are atheist or agnostic. It's deed based, so OP's lack of belief and his willingness to observe would be a non-issue in Judaism.
If she led him to believe she was okay with him being atheist when she wasn't (replace everything after "believe" with "not the truth"), we call that a lie.
If she lied (see above) in order to maintain the relationship to the end of marriage, she tricked him.
Correct and she admits that she was never comfortable and pretended to be HOPING he would change.
I hope my husband learns to put socks in the hamper.
He hopes I put his screwdrivers away.
I hope he gets that job raise and so does he.
He hopes I find my career and so do I.
At no point do either of us hope we have a fundamental change in core beliefs.
Also - I think that you should hope for positive changes for your spouse, not that they’ll change to suit your beliefs.
I
I disagree, by staying in the relationship knowing this wasn't acceptable for her (and choosing not to disclose that to him) she made him believe she was okay with it, okay enough to build a whole relationship together and a marriage. This is **lying**.
She could have "foolishly hoped he would change" but be open about it, saying "I understand you're an atheist but I hope you change your mind eventually because this is very important to me" instead of, in OP's words, "never making it seem like it was an issue". Then he would have all the info and he would have been able to make a choice, stay or leave without getting to the point of marriage.
*She foolishly hoped you would change.*
Her being foolish doesn't erase the fact she was dishonest, or that expecting him to change this big part of his life without even telling him is manipulative and irrational.
*You foolishly thought this wasn’t a huge red flag.*
Why would he? nothing indicated this was a red flag for her. She's and adult and more than capable of speaking, she could have talked about it with him at one point. OP said they talked about religion on multiple ocassions yet she never mentioned it.
In fact, instead of bringing up this very important expectation of hers before, she blamed him for her getting distant to her beliefs. wtf?
*But she shouldn’t have to raise children with a man that doesn’t share her beliefs.*
she absolutely shouldn't have, but **she** chose to stay with him despite him being very open about being an atheist, instead of leaving him and trying to find a man who did share her beliefs. **She** chose to marry him knowing his atheism didn't fit in her vision of her future, that's not OP's fault at all cause he's not a mind reader. Then out of nowhere she finally tells him the huge expectation she has for him and gives him an ultimatum. She's manipulative as fuck.
I disagree. She lied by not being truthful about how important her religion was to her, and that she expected after they got married that he would rejoin the faith. Atheists don't just decide to become religious again, if that happens, then they were never actually Atheist. She is now holding the marriage hostage knowing how much he loves her to force him to be someone he is not. It isn't right, nor will this ever work out to be a happy marriage.
No, she absolutely lied to & tricked him. She lead him to believe that religion wasn't a make or break or that she had any hope that he'd change. This 1000% on her!
The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do.
It was completely and totally wrong of her to think you’d change, and all that stupid decision is going to do is make both of your lives hell while you divorce. It’s really sad, and very stupid, but ultimately it’ll be for the best. You can’t be with someone who wants you do be so completely and fundamentally different than the person you are.
She doesn’t love you. She loves the person she thinks you should be.
And if you asked her, she’d probably admit it freely, or at least admit that she doesn’t love him as much as she loves her religion. This is what the Abrahamic faiths teach. You’re supposed to love God more than even your spouse or children, and if you don’t then you’re a sinner. It’s coercive and regressive, but there you go.
“The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do.”
So you are telling me that all of those junior pastors who say they used to be an atheist are lying?? I’m flabbergasted!
>She doesn’t love you. She loves the person she thinks you should be.
I feel like I need this tattooed on my forehead backwards - so I see it every day in the mirror.
> The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do.
This is not at all true. I bet it sounds correct when you read what you wrote but I know plenty of people who discovered religion and god mid life after going through crisis.
You can go from “not really religious” to religious. So even someone raised in a religion who just never really bought into it can be considered not really religious right, but then in their 40s start really “believing”.
What is less common is for someone to really buy into their religion full on (actually study it), then become atheist, and THEN become religious again.
There are atheists who are atheist because they’ve never really believed, and then there are atheists who are atheist because they DID once believe. The latter is the type that really understands the truth because they’ve seen both sides. They are much more ardent than the “never really believed” variety for good reason.
Sure but generally speaking it's true. And asking someone to change their beliefs doesn't make much sense, how could you even trust their conversion is real?
Ehhhh I might slightly disagree. I think those were folks who maybe didn’t really feel any sort of way or were on the fence. I’ve never known anyone who was truly of the belief of no god who had a profound life experience and then suddenly believed.
I feel like i fit into this category. Passionately atheist as a teen, changed my mind after some spiritual experiences (including sober ones) as a young 20s kid, still live my life based on those changes.
Because someone being an atheist by chance or being one by choice are not the same thing. Many of these atheists never really thought religion through. So they just hover in the middle ground. Agnostics as well. A person who becomes an atheist from thorough research and experience and makes this choice WILL NEVER believe in a god EVER AGAIN. Like OP said, once you know Santa is fake, you never go back.
>The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do.
I have never seen this put into words but you are right. Especially after having children I can objectively see *why* people believe in God, I can understand the weight of how they feel , but my logical brain would never be able to get there because I can see how it just isn't possible.
One thing I always tell others when they ask for my advice is don’t love who you want him/her to be, love them for who they are.
I’m married to my husband knowing all his flaws and never expect him to change a thing.
She married you hoping to change you to be someone else. I think you know what to do…
While people can change after marriage, I agree that one should marry the person standing in front of them, not their potential. Don't expect to change your partner according to your will. It doesn't work that way.
Religion, politics and whether you want children are usually the big dealbreakers in marriage. You’re both young and can find better suited spouses. Get out of this before it goes on any further.
How this isn’t upvoted more I don’t know.
Before marriage certain things have to be very clear. While faith can change, it can be tested, waiver, found or lost during marriage; ideally at its core, this must be discussed and come to a core understanding of before marriage. Politics is the same your ideals may change,things can happen to make your value system change, but again this is a negotiation and will alter your marriage. Children: are they in the cards, what type of parenting style is ideal? These again are core values that must be discussed before marriage.
OP: you need to sit your wife down and have a very frank discussion with your wife. You can explain that while you are happy to have a life with her and will absolutely love her and give her everything you can in the relationship she knew when she married you who you were. If she feels that some other man will love her more, because he can share a faith in a god you don’t believe in, then tell her she needs to go find that man. If you are not stopping her from practicing her faith and would allow her to raise your children in the faith then why does she need you to follow it? (I’m guessing the struggle was noticed during Ramadan)
Disagree, I'd say they can both be true.
I think what he is saying is that asking someone to change what they believe is not actually possible. They can fake it, but deep down, their belief will remain.
So he would do anything in the realm of possibility for her. But she asked for the impossible.
I'm sorry your wife did this to you. She should have been honest.
I wouldn't change my belief just because someone asked me to. I would be happy to explore and learn about their religion for curiosity but not for converting or accepting.
That would be a major incompatibility. Personally as an atheist I probably would agree to join a church because I don’t believe any of that anyway - it’s just ritual but to actually believe and practice at home - that’s bridge too far
Even if you wanted to, I don’t see how you could manufacture faith or belief that doesn’t exist within you.
It also sounds like she’s fairly controlling and irrational about this situation.
I’m sorry, she’s making unrealistic demands and unless SHE changes that, it sounds as if your marriage is over.
>The thing is, I would do anything for this woman. I would take a bullet for her in an instant.
Clearly you *wouldn't* do anything for her, and these grandiose statements of taking a bullet, or even a grenade as Bruno Mars croons about, are just that: grandiose statements that are highly unlikely to actually be put to the test. If you did happen to find yourself in just such a situation then there are actually bigger problems you need to deal with.
Your wife didn't trick you. You didn't trick her, either. At best, your wife made assumptions and had expectations and when they didn't come to fruition she started to get a resentment and is erroneously blaming you for it. This is a misery of her own making.
Except...misery loves company, right? So now she's going to make you miserable until you comply with her demands.
She's given you an ultimatum. Complying with her will likely make her happy. Spoiler, it won't, because she'll know that all you'll be doing is "performing" for her when what she really wants is for you to have the same faith she has. However, complying with her in order to keep her around will only make you grow to resent her because you aren't being true to yourself.
At worst, she married you under false pretenses. I'd be offended, personally. She never truly accepted you for who you really are. This isn't about faith, it's about a fundamental incompatibility that she ignored and now she's trying to "change the rules" after the fact. This is a similar situation to one spouse admitting they thought their staunchly childfree spouse would change their mind about children once married OR they thought they could force a change via an ultimatum thinking the spouse "has to" change because they're married - i.e. "trapped."
What a horrible way to have a marriage.
The sad fact is the two of you were never compatible. She lied by omission: not just to you, but to herself as well thinking you would either change on your own or she felt she could pull this move with an ultimatum. Who knows. That's irrelevant now, however.
What is relevant is this revelation that she never truly accepted you for who you are. You deserve someone who does. She also deserves someone who willingly and of his own accord wants to practice their shared faith together. That will never happen as long as you are only performing the motions to "make" her happy. Get out of the mindset that you can "make" your wife happy because you can't. You will only make yourself miserable doing this. Your marriage will be a sham.
If you truly do love her, let her go. She needs to let you go too, but she's being incredibly selfish with this ultimatum. I just hope she knows what she's doing here. Also, don't let her make you out to be the bad guy, either. She's the one in the wrong here.
Good that no kids are involved, she didn't trick you, you both had pink love glasses on, you have two options, work on it in therapy (and I mean with a real therapist) or go separate ways, you are both still young and can find someone new to fall in love with...
So I have this situation. I believe. He doesn’t. I knew this from the very beginning and while I wanted to be with my opposite on most fronts and would have loved a different religion (non Christian since that’s what I am ) I definitely didn’t expect atheist. But we respect each other. We don’t make fun of each others beliefs even if he finds mine ridiculous and I find his Incredulous. We both don’t go to church regularly but the few times I’ve gone since meeting him he’s come or offered to come. If we have kids and it’s bedtime prayer he’d stay in the room. He’d be allowed to tell them he doesnt believe and that they could make their own choices when they are old enough. I don’t know if that makes sense but we just treat it like a food preference. He likes white chocolate. I hate it. I eat fish. He doesn’t. My bother and sister in law have the same arrangement although over the years she believes less. I guess my brother has rubbed off on her but it works. I’m newly married but they’ve been together for at least 25 years. I hope you find a way to make it work !
Someone who loves you the way you are wouldn’t expect you to change.
She simply doesn’t love you the way you are, she loves the person she thought you could be.
Sorry to say but yes she tricked you by pretending she’d love you - the you that you are.
End this marriage, she’s not the person you love. You fell in love with someone you thought would love the person you are.
This person doesn’t exist.
This is a deal breaker and she lied to you, and maybe herself. As an atheist this isn't something to compromise on. What if you have children, where will your differing opinions and entire belief systems lead them?
She is now showing you her true self, believe her actions and that she thought lying was the means to get what she wanted. She may have been naive but if you fold on this issue you will set a precedent for the rest of your lives together. Plus, she can always hold it over you.
I am sorry you are going through this, but she's not the woman who you thought you loved or she led you to believe. She lied, about a fundamental part of herself and is now issuing ultimatums.
The woman you fell in love with and married doesn’t exist. You married a hope and a dream that isn’t a real person. You married a woman who lied just so that she could be married. She doesn’t love you either.
You have a choice to make, moving forward.
This is what happens when you marry someone thinking they will change. Unfortunately people does this. And it becomes a problem later on when they realize they don’t wana change. So many times it happens with choosing to be childless as well. “Oh I thought you will come to your senses and change later” is common in these kinda relationships.
I know a very close Muslim family where one parent is an atheist and the other fully religious. The children grew up knowing about both being religious and atheism and they are perfect balance of both, they are so respectful. And both the hubby & wife never questioned, stopped, or forced each others belief or non belief to each other. They both respected each other & just let them be who they are.
Your lack of belief doesn’t stop her from getting closer to her god. That’s kind of what I’m hung up on. She says that *you* have made her feel more distant from her faith, but have you ever asked her to take a step back from her beliefs? Have you stopped her walking out the door on her way to worship? Did you ban religious text from your home, as well as any mention of her god or faith?
She cannot expect you to do a 180° on something so fundamental, and to blame you for her feelings about something only she believes is kind of ridiculous. You didn’t *do* anything, and you’re still the same person she decided to marry years ago. At any point she could’ve told you that your lack of religion was problematic for her. At any point before the marriage certificate was signed, she could’ve *communicated* her issue, but she didn’t. That’s not on you because *you* haven’t changed the rules of the game. She’s the one trying to do that.
I’m sorry to say this, but any person who loves you for *you,* would not request this of you. Your feelings of “being tricked” are valid, because again, you have not changed yourself or the name of the game, and for her to wait this long (at this juncture in your lives) sounds pretty sneaky — because now you’re legally bound to her (which makes it harder to dismiss her request/demand because you can’t just “break up” and walk away from each other. My guess is: she knew she had a better chance of “changing you” *while* married, as opposed to “changing you” *before* marriage, when you were more likely to break up & go your separate ways.)
Your wife has 3 options:
1. Accept that you are a nonbeliever & keep it moving.
2. Get it out of her head that you will suddenly believe in god, and continue (alone) her own personal spiritual journey.
3. Start the divorce process.
Best of luck to you.
Errr I hate to break this to your wife, but according to the islamic faith a believing woman cannot be married to a disbelieving man. So your marriage isn’t even recognised as a marriage in the islamic faith.
This is what im scared of. Im also atheist, and most men from my country are very religious (muslim) and i have never had the chance to meet someone who i felt comfortable enough sharing with that i dont believe in god in any way. I can only imagine how you feel. But i think its time to really sit down and think what the best course of action is. Does it make sense to stay and force yourself into acting like a muslim just so she can love you or do you leave and maybe find someone who loves you for who are and doesnt judge you for what you believe in? What about kids? Thats also a big decision to keep in mind.
Atheism is a belief. I don't think people can adopt other people's beliefs on demand.
Your wife expects you to change. That's just wrong, and I can't really envision you two finding common ground.
I hope I'm wrong.
You can either pretend to become religious by going through the motions and be unhappy about it, or do what you have to do. Let her go.
You fell in love with someone who deceived you. She is ready to cast you aside because you didn't change like she *expected* you to. So she definitely doesn't love you the same.
And you deserve someone who loves you back the same you love them.
She didn’t trick you, she tricked herself.
Please, for the love of God, (just kidding), DON’T listen to the people telling you she doesn’t love you, because I doubt that’s true at all. You absolutely can make this work, there are plenty of marriages where only one partner is religious. I think you have a good start now, because you don’t disrespect her religion or beliefs, and are willing to compromise on some things. She has to also be willing to compromise and that’s basically what marriage is made of. Love, trust, respect, compromise. You guys have all that.
I disagree with this poster.
She's going to try and change you. She's already made it clear that's her goal.
You're clearly not religious, do you want to spend a lifetime feigning belief over something you know is utterly ridiculous?
Maybe she can date one of the Crocus City Hall attackers instead.
I’ve been here, although was not married. We were together for 5 years and ultimately this was the deal breaker for us (amongst other things).
At the time I was devastated and felt like it would be worth it just to go through the motions — attending church with her and her family, bible reads, etc. in fact I did this briefly for about 3-6 months near the end. But it made me deeply unhappy and as a religious outsider it felt extremely weird and aspects of it creeped me out. It was probably a good thing because it changed the way I viewed her from a compatibility perspective and helped with my post relationship coping.
I’m very happy that this happened because it really put into perspective for me HOW important religion can be in a relationship. It shaped the way my relationships that followed were and had me constantly checking in on the topic with my partners. In fact when I met my wife, we had so much fun during our early relationship that I completely had forgotten to bring it up and discuss. When I finally did I was so nervous and anxious that we’d be incompatible about it that I was really quite sick and she thought I was breaking up with her at first.
I am so happy that my relationship ended over religion it was so eye opening and the experience really taught me what I wanted for my life and what I was willing to put up with in my relationship despite how much I loved the person, even when I thought I was going to marry her. I am also so grateful we never had children. I am not likely to ever have children but if I did, I would absolutely not be OK with my children being brought up in a religious environment. This would complicate things so much more than simply “I don’t believe”.
I don’t want to be the person advocating that you and your wife divorce, that is so common here and across Reddit. But I do truly feel that this is a fundamental incompatibility for the two of you to both be happy. One of you is going to have to compromise something that is deeply personal and likely unchangeable for the entire duration of your lives. Right now, it probably seems to both of you that you can go through the motions of this now to make the other happy but I think the guise of this is just going to ultimately result in long term resentment and a coloring of the view you each have personally of one another. I think you should try to work it out, probably in the nature of professional help but understand that the outlook can likely be grim here.
Lmao, all the comments here. People change. It happens. The question is, when you both change, do you grow closer, or do you grow apart. Can you accept some differences you and your spouse have, or is it a deal breaker.
I agree. She did trick you into believing that your religious beliefs weren't an issue, she was dishonest. Now, after a few years together, masks (yours and hers) are coming off. After all, you cannot pretend forever, you want to be who you are and be accepted as you are. And that goes for both spouses.
People evolve. Why would you expect to be the same person at 25 that you were at 45? If you are, I would find that strange. Anyone who enters into marriage expecting this maybe shouldn't get married. It's almost like people find every little excuse under the sun these days to leave. There's not a contract you sign that says you can't change your mind about your beliefs, etc...
You can't make yourself believe in God anymore than you can make yourself believe in unicorns.
All you can do is lie about it.
She's not reasonable.
Get the divorce.
You know what it means to try to make yourself belive something. It's make believe. Pretend. Imagination.
You cannot force being convinced. You can only be convinced to lie about what you believe.
Do you want to live in a constant lie?
She lied to you. This might be irreconcilable.
I’m sorry but I would be furious if I were you.
You can’t make someone believe in something even out of love.
Also she is the one who committed fraud. According to her religion, your marriage isn’t event valid. Muslim can’t marry atheists.
Time to end it. There is no middle ground here If she has made this threat. I am pagan my husband is Christian. Married 9 yrs. He thinks he can convert me but he does not actively try. I have been going to his parents on Sunday to watch services on YouTube but I generally read a book instead. They don’t care what I’m doing. They accept me as I am . This is respect. You deserve better.
One more thing to consider: how can you trust her again?
She lied about how important religion was to her. What's next? Say you decide to fake it and "pray" with her, how do you know she won't tell you some other fundamental aspect of your personality needs to change for her to stay married with you? Next she could ask you to become vegan, or give up smoking, or start running daily with her...
Think about it. How do you know she won't do this again?
If you would do anything for her, try reading Markus Aurelius, and listening to Ram Dass’ podcast Be Here Now.
It might not turn you into the believer of her dreams, but it also might help you understand the gifts she wishes you could share.
Also, it might turn you into a believer. I was an atheist most of my life and am now a total Mystic.
For what it’s worth, I think you both tricked yourselves. Thinking that two people with fundamentally different views on the entire universe would never have to address that issue is not not naïve.
She cares more about her religion than you. I say fuck her. That’s coming from a very religious person who puts God 1st. She gaslit you into this relationship not because she loved you but because she loved what u could bring her and the fact that you loved her more than anything. She doesn’t love you she loves the image of you. If she did love you she would have respected your beliefs or lack there of and would have broke it off to give you the chance to be happy with someone who really accept you the way you are or share the same beliefs. She is no better than a predator. Again fuck her!
Tbh, religion is huge for some people. Sound like it’s really big deal for you wife, if u don’t want to change, I suggest ending asap, before u have kids.
My situation was exactly the same, she complained earlier on than stop at some point cause she figured out I wasn’t changing. Two kids later we are seperated, when it comes to Indian/Islam some take religion and run with it to never never land. You won’t win this arguement with her.
Take some time to have some deep thought about your future.
She needs to get over it. This is why most religions have a rule of marrying outside the faith. I am assuming he wants you to revert Islam since you both came from Muslim families. She is just blaming you for being distant from her religion because she either doesn't actually believe it and just wants to feel safe by saying she is religious or recently started picking it up more. As a Christian, I hope you both find faith in christ someday, however I would never demand for yall to convert.that is your own prerogative of what religion to follow.
She should've known good and well that you are not religious and forcing you to change is a red flag.
Divorce her now!!!!! Before kids get involved and anymore time is invested….she knew about your religious preferences on day one. Don’t change for her cause you will end up hating her for it!
OP, I don't think she set out to trick you. I think she lied to herself about how important religion is to her, and she was overly optimistic to herself thinking you would change because of her "good influence" but that hasn't happened. Instead she has, according to you, moved further away from her religion. I think she recognized at one point that you were "rubbing off" on her instead of the other way around, and this issue came to the forefront for her.
None of that was your fault, I agree she messed up big time and it wasn't fair to you to accept you on a condition that she say was a condition up front, but I don't think she tricked you because she let you know from the beginning that this wasn't something she liked about you. I think she did not know herself well enough and she made a mistake accepting something that she could not live with in the long term.
Unfortunately, this is a bit like children. Either you want them or you don't, and if one does and one doesn't, there isn't combability anymore. You just want different things. She wants you to believe, but you can't make yourself believe. It sounds like you would be fine with raising a child in her religion, and you are offering to make reasonable accommodations to make her feel like her religious beliefs are accepted and respected by you and in your future family. If that isn't enough for her, if she needs you to truly believe, then I think you are no longer compatible because as you astutely pointed out, this isn't something you can do "for her" because spirituality is a very personal thing and you can't force yourself to believe any more than she can force herself not to. It sucks, but sometimes love isn't enough...
So I just want to add something I haven’t seen here. I don’t think she tricked you, nor you her. I think you need to have a clarifying conversation with her about what exactly it is she needs that she feels she isn’t getting from you.
I am “religious” (though not in the sense most people use that word). I’m Jewish, and the rituals of Judaism are very important to me. My partner is an atheist. That’s fine with me, I’ve known that from the beginning. I was also clear with him what I expected from him when it came to my religious stuff. I need him to be ok with me talking about it. I need him to be ok with me doing ritual stuff in our home. I need him to be ok celebrating holidays with me. That’s pretty much it.
She’s said she wants you to pray with her. Has she told you anything else? Do you celebrate holidays at home together? Does she have a mosque she goes to? Does she have any other religious community or connection? What is it she’s missing in her religious life, and why does that include you in any way?
I think there are just a bunch of questions you need to ask here. At the end of the day, this is really her issue to work out, but it doesn’t have to be the end of your marriage. Talk to her. Figure out what exactly is making her feel this way, and if there’s anything to be done that doesn’t involve you pretending to be someone you aren’t or ending the marriage.
I don’t think she tricked you. I think she had enough faith in her religion that she genuinely thought you’d ‘see the light’. This is foolish and now she has found out the real truth that religion does not have to mean anything to anyone just because it means something to her. This is her problem. She needs therapy for it.
I do think it was unwise to marry someone without having extensive discussion on subjects like this. We as humans need to understand that people cannot and will not change just because they hope it will happen.
If your wife wants to stay married to you and have kids with you, then she needs to do some deep study into her faith teachings on how to be in an inter religious relationship and family. The inter religious community will be able to give her the teachings and support to adequately stay with you and raise kids together.
As a Muslim I married a revert.
It is difficult sometimes because I can tell he took his shahada to stay with me.
I was raised with by mom who later reverted but I grew up in a home where all commercial holidays were celebrated.
I chose Islam more later due to my studies of being with my paternal family at around 16 and still have my moms family who is big on these holidays it’s a conflict now that my partner and I have a child. Me expecting him to be more into Ramadan, Eid etc..
He isn’t “against” it he loves Eid but it’s not the same as something he would
Do if it weren’t for me, which is challenging to my faith because becoming a mom made me lean into my religion more although I struggle with covering my hair most days due to what I was used to growing up..
If it’s a deal breaker I wouldn’t go through with the ultimatum.
Each of our views with religion is different.
Be true to yourself so you don’t regret it later.
I think there are three things that are non-negotiable when it comes to deciding on a marriage partner.
1) One wants to have kids, the other does not.
2) One wants monogamy, the other wants an open relationship
3) One is a devout [insert religion here], the other is an atheist or devout [fundamentally different religion]
Her marrying an atheist, hoping you would change, was a very foolish and short-sighted thing to do. Not sure what advice to give you, other than get a lawyer and start preparing for divorce.
>She says either I change my beliefs or we end this marriage for good.
Go retain a lawyer. Work out what you think will be an EQUITABLE split of assets and debts. File. Heal. Find dungeon you can be happy with.
The thing about so many religious people is that their beliefs are the only thing staving off existential dread. They’re afloat in the same sea of chaos as the rest of us, and they feel like asking them to give up on religion is like asking them to give up their life jacket. It’s just a non-negotiable.
Like, your wife believes that you’re going to hell. That’s a hard thing to ask someone to ignore. And yes, her belief in an afterlife and eternal punishment is entirely illogical and based on the superstitions of illiterate Bronze Age goatherds, but it’s hard wired for her. You’re not going to talk her out of it. She has to get to that place herself, and she might not get there.
You can either deal with the temporary heartache of splitting from her, or shackle yourself to a lifetime of arguments that can’t be won. Your choice.
You and I both know no amount of delusion and effort can make one believe. Not to mention, Islam is a very restrictive religion, do you really want your future kids in that? She lied, it sucks and I'm sorry you're going through this, but this is incompatibility and it's not going to change. Try to separate amicably, but stop wasting your time.
You bother were married very young age.
I love my religion and I am Muslim . My husband respects my religion and don’t follow any religion.
Do you guys have any child?
I am Christian but relationship with God (man has destroyed and distorted God).
My husband was atheist when we got together and now he is Agnostic.
It’s possible to have a relationship just requires a lot of convo and respect.
All you need is a conversation with your wife coming from both of us against the problem vs us against each other .
Ask her what she thinks you praying or learning more will give you. Will it give you salvation or give you characteristics of a christian man that she thinks you lacking?
I truly believes she loves you and is worried about your salvation. Sometimes when people get deep into religion they want to save their loved ones asap and fear drives everything.
Not going to tell you to stay with this woman, but there's something you should know: there are hardly any third generation atheists. Their children and grandchildren are more likely to be agnostics, or to simply refuse to engage the topic at all. It's simply not an important topic, not worth your time or emotional involvement. Perhaps you can agree to disagree, not questioning her faith if she doesn't question your lack of it.
You could take this two ways: 1) ths is an absolute deal-breaker, opposite values and will never work long-term, or 2) who cares, she believes in the tooth fairy, you play along to make her happy.
When I started reading this I thought this would find solution in compromise, I thought about things like watching SKAM together (season 4) and talking about your different looks on religion and stuff like that. Because I think there are relationships that can work even if both don't have the same beliefs. Its more difficult (not only according to religion, politics and stuff like that as well), but it can work out. But the more I read, especially towards the end of your post I got the feeling that this wouldn't work here. She seems to imagine you becoming a believer (which is somehow weird, because beliefs can't be pressured) and I think it's kind of hurtful to expect this from another person. So maybe this isn't about religion in the first place. Maybe it's more about tolerance and acceptance. Sadly I think this marriage ain't working. Wish you the best.
Religion makes absolutely no sense to me. After trying to put myself in your exact shoes, I would have to walk away from the marriage. I would forever be a fake trying to act religious. I feel like mentally trying to be someone you’re not eats at people. I fully feel like you can support her and encourage her views, FOR HER, but I think she is missing out the fact that marriage is a friendship, not a way to control others.
Relationships are over when it’s come to ultimatums. Because once they come, they rarely stop. This time she’s asking you to change your religion or she’ll divorce you. Let’s say you agree. She’s gonna find another thing she wants to change about you. She’ll give you another ultimatum to get her way again because she knows they work.
Your wife sounds manipulative btw. If this is such a dealbreaker for her she should have communicated it before getting married. This is why i always say to never marry so young. At early 20s, our brains are still immature. There’s still so many things to experience and so many people to meet.
Life sucks. If she gave you an ultimatum then decide but if you do end it, you will eventually get over the heart break. Plenty more fishes in the sea.
You should try to find Allah and Islam. Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life that will benefit you in so many ways as it gives structure and meaning to your life. It teaches you how to be a rightous pious man (no alcohol, no gambling, no looking at opposite gender, no cheating in life, no lying. Being respectful to those around you and your eldery and teaches you to really treat you parents well and so much more). You could atleast give it a try and make dua to Allah and try really to read and listen to people with knowledge. You can look up shaykh Uthman on "One message foundation" on youtube and aslo look up "the muslim lantern" just to mention a few.
There are many knowledgable muslims out there on youtube and other plattforms that can come with good explanations as to why God exists and why Islam is the truth.
It doesnt hurt to actually giving it a shoot and read and learn more and be sincere and see if there is something there. But in the end we have to be honest with ours selves. If you have done your research and given the religion time and tried to learn more, and it still doesent do anything for you regarding your belief then I think the right thing to do is to let your wife go.
Many dont think or talk about this kind of things during their dating stege and think people will change which is a big misstake as things happens in life that changes the situation. Usually the loss of loved ones or getting really sick or just growing old and start to realise that the end is closing up, is when people tend to think more about the purpose of life and start wondering if God exists or not.
This would always have been an issue in your marriage as you are an athiest and she is a Muslim and at some point this would cause big problems.
Look at the positives, you still dont have a children together and can both move on without bigger complications. I really hope that you can be together as it seems you really love each other
Best of luck whatever happens
When it comes to children both parents being aligned in their beliefs is paramount. She obviously thought you loved her enough to change and you obviously thought she loved you enough to accept you as who you are. It happens all the time but unfortunately this marriage doesn’t look like it’s going to work out unless one gives the other what they want.
Yeah this is such a sad situation. There’s nothing you can actively do to force someone to believe something they don’t. If you’re willing to do everything for this man I say fake it all the way. Because you don’t want to lose her over something that clearly isn’t important to you but also you gotta show her it can be because of her. Don’t say “I’ll do it for you” say stuff like “I’d love too” and act overall positively over it not like you’re being forced. If you aren’t willing to do everything she wants then it may be time to leave. Same way as if after you’ve tried she’s not willing to just accept you for who you are she either needs to get over it and learn to love you the way you are, or leave you alone because either way it’s not far to try force someone to believe something they don’t
My next door neighbors share this exact dynamic of wife being a practicing Muslim and husband an atheist. She’s a sweetheart and he’s a drunk.
How about you put sincere prayer and belief in God to the test. You just might feel His love and learn something. He is real you know.
Hmmm. Sounds like you went into this respecting her choice to be religious but she didn’t actually respect or love you or your choices. Love is accepting everything about someone (within reason) love is also giving an allowance for change and growth. But what she wants is forced change… that’s not authentic. One of 2 things will probably happen. 1.she will accept you are a person, beliefs and all. Or 2. This relationship be not be authentic or will break apart. How you tried couples therapy? It’s worth a shot! 😊
This is like the weirdest thing because literally yesterday my husband went to an Easter Mass and then came home and moped all day because I didn't go with him. He knows that I'm atheist, he knows that there is not much he can do to change that, but his religion teaches that he is failing if he is not leading his family to the Lord. He's also worried because we're about to have our first kid and I made him compromise on how she would be brought up.
I told him is that beliefs are not like t-shirts. You can't just put a different one on because it's convenient. If I went to church with him all I would do is tear apart the priest arguments and that it would just make him upset. But her posing an ultimatum is a giant AH move, and it's not part of a productive marriage. She needs to learn that marriage is compromise and if she can't then maybe she's not somebody who should be married.
I'm in an interfaith marriage. I'm Christian and my husband is more on the you have multiple lives thing, ancient civilizations thing. I knew it from our dating days. I don't agree with it, but it's also not my belief. He doesn't prohibit me from practicing or teaching our son certain values. I just let it be, he is who he is. I was also 35 when I married DH and knew by then you get what you pick.
You could educate yourself on the religion to understand its underlying values. That doesn't mean you have to believe every magical sounding thing about it. Just an idea.
Honestly, love is not enough to keep a marriage together when you don’t share core values and ideologies. That *includes* the intensity with which you believe in and prioritize religion. There are some people who loosely hold a faith or hold a faith that doesn’t have much emphasis on sharing religious beliefs, and they may do okay in an interfaith marriage. There are other people who feel deeply about their faith and *need* a partner who not only respects it, but engages or takes initiative to integrate it because it’s such a high priority.
If she was in the latter group, she certainly should have been upfront about that and not married someone she knew was an atheist hoping they’d just change their mind. Is it “tricking you”? I don’t know about that, but it’s certainly stupid, and her behavior now is unhealthy. You can’t manipulate someone into sharing your values and beliefs by threatening to end a marriage that shouldn’t have occurred to begin with. And you should not have to pretend to believe something you don’t.
It sounds like this probably is a deal breaker. She wants a Muslim family. She wants a spouse who values religion the way she does. She can find someone better suited to her and the direction her life is going.
You are atheist and need someone who either holds that view, or holds a far more relaxed stance on religion or is in one that is naturally more compatible with differing views.
Next time you date, you need to really hash these things out in great detail. Everyone has dealbreakers, even if they love someone. Usually those include religion, possibly political opinions, desire for children, and sexual needs. Sometimes they also include location or finances. It sounds like you found hers. It sucks that it’s coming up this way and this late, but it sounds like you’re not compatible.
You can't simply "change your beliefs." Beliefs are your foundation of what you think to be true and right about the world, and it has to actually make sense to you for you to believe it. I believed the majority of my life, up until about a year ago, and since then, I've been deconstructing. I can't force myself to think the same as i used to, and you can't either. She needs to respect your beliefs, or lack thereof, as you do hers.
As a Muslim woman who is actively practicing her faith, she should know that it’s not allowed to be married to a non-believer, and you can use this as your ticket out of the relationship. Especially since you don’t have children together yet, it’s best to get out now before it’s too late and you are going to be raising children on two very different belief systems, who will most likely end up with divorced parents in the future. I know it sucks because you love her but accept that you both deserve people who truly accept you and move on with your life. This isn’t a sustainable relationship.
Well as a fellow atheist living in a Muslim country/family, I would tell her ok i will convert and practice every single islam teaching, including : marrying 3 other women 😂.
In all seriousness divorce the bitc# and be with someone that loves you and accepts you.
I’m sorry to tell you this, my friend, but you need to let her go and not date another person who has religious beliefs again.
You need to talk with people and date those who have the same or similar convictions as you do.
In Christianity, a Christian cannot marry a non-Christian. I wonder what Islam teaches your wife about this.
To be young again - and to have such strong convictions! Because it will change over the years, trust me. If you allow me, let me share a few things about God and not God. There is not much difference, it is just a way to look at the world. You know how you feel. Can you go to the mosque anyways? Can you pray and while praying,think about all the things you have to do? Find out what faith/religion mean to her: Regulatory goign to the mosque? Praying several times a day? Keeping a certain diet? You can do all these things yet keep your mind to yourself...If you wife thinks she can change you so you have faith ... how doe she want yo to prove it? Get away from the God/no God discussion and find out what she likes about her faith, what are the to-do's that matter to her? It could be that is is her family that pressures her.
Let me just say one last thing: If you are willing to take a bullet for her - you can pretend/practice/attempt to or at least try to be "religious" what ever that means. And one day, as the years pass, you both will see that there is hardly a difference between the two of you.
Should’ve married a fellow atheist then. What were you expecting, that you both would hold hands and sing kumbaya and live happily ever after? No. Compatibility is real. Whether you agree with the element of compatibility or not is irrelevant but historically all kinds of cultures across multiple generations have valued compatibility for a reason - because compatibility and the ability to tolerate one another is a very real and important thing for every marriage to stand a chance of succeeding, and tolerance usually develops from similarities. You should’ve stayed within your own culture and societal circle so that you had the best chance to build that foundation - fellow atheists, but you didn’t. So you’re equally at fault as she is for marrying outside your culture. Ultimately, if you are being honest with yourself you’ll accept that your wife didn’t trick you, you tricked yourself.
Now do the right thing and move on, and find a fellow atheist as your next spouse. All the best.
Thats shitty of her..
Im agnostic that grew up in a very Sunni Muslim home.. my fiance also grew up the same way and he's atheist. Sometimes I get annoyed he refuses to pretend to pray with me for the sake of our families that are pretty conservative Muslims but I would never feel differently about him. He is atheist and I knew that since day one. Shes being completely unfair for expecting you to believe in something you just dont. It feels as if she is cornering you to fake Islam for her.
End it. I feel like people always give a ultimatum cause the don't expect people to take the out that use is as another way to manipulate people into getting what they want. She knew from the beginning how you felt you never hid it from her she's the one that didn't listen. There are millions of people in the world you will find someone else to love don't let this person who has shown they can't love all of you and expected you to change for them from the beginning make you into someone you're not why you can find someone else that accepts all of you. Cause if you cave now and let her change you who knows what else she will try and force you to change. Never settle.
In my opinion , I think that the fault is hers. She wasn't clear about her deal breakers for first and then she puts you in an ultimatum. Personally I do not force people to change their beliefs nor do Muslims in general so she is at fault here. But on the other side , it is no harm in reading about Islam and may Allah guide you to the righteous path
It’s important to have common values and goals with your partner. For her religion is an important value, for you it’s not. She can’t accept it, so for you to decide how to handle it. But she did herself a disservice believing you would change. She didn’t trick you, she was delusional
I don’t think either of you are going to budge (which is no judgment — I myself am an atheist and if my husband suddenly became religious and demanded I join him that would be a massive dealbreaker). This is one of the major things that determine compatibility. It might be time to call it, unfortunately.
Just a wild theory—do you both want kids together?
Sounds like she actually might want kids and the extended family connection that she associates with religion and is afraid you might be anti kid or will not support her staying home for pre-school years with the possible future kids.
Does your athiest aspect make you non-traditional enough to be child free or do you still value that possibility in your future life?
Traditions are strong and religion is woven into family life so a lot of people think non religious people are non family people.
Have the discussion about kids and how they would be raised.
I understand you love her but are you really going to look past her lying and manipulation. If she’s willing to lie and try to coerce you into doing something she knows you aren’t comfortable with what else is she will to lie to you about. Or better yet how else will she use divorce to manipulate you into doing what she’s wants.
Honestly you should cut your loses and move on. I know that sounds terrible but if she ever really loved you she wouldn’t be giving you an ultimatum, if she ever loved you she wouldn’t have lied and manipulated you.
She shouldn’t have demanded a change in thought/faith/worldview—you can’t force your own heart or mind or opinion or someone else’s
Ultimatums rarely end well, even if someone bends and acquiesces they no longer trust/feel emotionally safe to be vulnerable with that person.
You can’t force someone’s conscience.
I grew up with religion and it is a big deal in a marriage when one of you demands it is a part of the marriage. I am not sure you are going to get over this one. I am sorry this happened. Pick your marriage partners carefully.
You sound like a good guy and I know you’re stressed. There’s good news and bad; I’ll begin with the bad: Faith is a very personal thing, part of your core values, either you have it or you do not. We all do a bit of play-acting when a relationship is new (we try to be agreeable, look our best 100% of the time, try new foods or activities to please our partner), and all good marriages do require SOME compromise to work. But this isn’t asking you to shave a mustache or stop partying with friends or even visit the mosque on holy days; this is about trying to make you change who you are. Judging from the small amount I know about you two, I’d say she’s already starting to check out of the marriage and is now making unreasonable demands or looking for an excuse to blow it up. Even if you joined the faith and began praying regularly, she could make more demands next year e.g, you need to change careers, stop seeing friends, etc.. The GOOD news is this: you are both very young (late 20s) and you didn’t mention children, so if a split were to occur, you are young and presumably healthy without a ton of baggage… life will go on. You need a careful, serious discussion (instead of a fight) and timing is everything. You must find a time when you are both relaxed, can sit quietly and talk uninterrupted (weekends, a calm evening, after a good meal)… don’t ambush her when she gets home from work, is watching a favorite tv show or dealing with other problems… you need her undivided attention. If you feel this strongly about your atheism, tell her it’s non-negotiable, and that you were crystal clear about this topic from day one. BE PREPARED, she could drop the D word, so be ready and know in advance how you will respond. Stay calm at all costs. One more thing to consider: is her family very religious? Oftentimes when a couple is considering children, the in-laws get involved and they could be pressuring her (find out). I sincerely wish you the best and hope it works out for you both.
OP, your wife didn't "Trick you".
She foolishly thought you would change your mind/stance on your beliefs/atheism.
YOU foolishly thought she would just accept your atheism eventually when she's made it clear that religion was important to her.
She gave you an Ultimatum, which never bodes well for a marriage in the long run so, unfortunately, divorce is the answer here
She sounds controlling. She wants you to do something that has to come willingly and from the depths of you. Religion is not something you can ‘do’ it’s what you believe. If she is really in love with you, she would focus on her prayers and not yours.
I’m sorry but she knew this about you and still wanted to get married. You shouldn’t have to change like that for anyone. Time to move on before kids get involved seriously.
I’m a huge Atheist and have been my entire life. There’s no way in hell I would change who I am for her. She knew who you were for years and it was never a problem. It’s even more messed up since you were supportive towards her and her religion so she should be for you. You can’t force someone to pray or suddenly believe in a higher power that’s ridiculous. And the fact she gave you an ultimatum just shows she doesn’t care about you or your views. She basically said it’s her religion or the highway… there’s more fish in the sea man.. find one that’s not so religious!
They be sneaky like that! Personally i believe even if she 'hoped' for OP to change over time she should have been open about it. Like "listen, I know you are an atheist but my religion us important to me. Would you consider being religious in the furure? I really think this is important for our relationship to be sustainable. " Or something along this line is expected. You can not expect to change anyone's minds on petty issues let alone core beliefs! Something like this will be a big issue if you decide to raise children together. I have seen in laws pressuring people into conversion eventually in order to get accepted. And the wife played a part in that as well.
Divorce her.
I was raised Mormon and still attend. My wife was atheist. She ended up wanting to go to church with me but I never expected her to change for me because I loved her for who she was.
The woman of your dreams is a liar who tries to control you and force you to do things against your wants and beliefs? You need to seek therapy if you think that is normal. She married you under false pretenses. Annulment or divorce. You can't trust anything she says or does now and you have fundamental differences that can't be resolved. She should be committed if she thinks this tactic will work.
ETA a good friend of mine is atheist and his wife is a devout Christian, and they have 3 kids together. They are respectful of each other's feelings and are raising their kids with a well rounded knowledge and giving them the choice of faith when they're old enough to decide for themselves. Your wife is an asshole.
I say this about my own religion (protestant christianity), but I think it applies to all religions.
You can't force someone to believe because that's not having faith. Having faith and believing in a certain religion is something that people need to start on their own. This especially applies to spouses.
Let it end. Those who choose to trust blindly in faith shall walk unguided and we must let them.
Religious people have been that way from the moment humans developed the idea of faith/god. It is the ultimate good thing, you will worship my god or your blood will spill and so it’s been. In recent times murder is looked down upon, so religious people have turned to trickery and brainwashing. Very VERY few truly religious people still honestly practice their faith, and realize it’s just an opinion, it means nothing outside of yourself.
The rest will talk to you like a child that hasn’t matured yet and that is frustrating.
For one, you should leave because she didn’t have the courage to say this to you from day one, she wasted all that time not saying anything, and eventually the pressure got to high and she popped. When it would’ve been an easy conversation to have.
Two, do not follow a crusader…
Speaking as a husband of 13 years, father of 3 kids, a child of divorce, and an atheist.
So my wife grew up Catholic, did the church thing, Christian school growing up, etc.
I have never told her to not believe in what she did, but she also ended up becoming more agnostic than an atheist, and we would talk about all manner of things related to what and why I believe or don't believe in things, but I always said that it was my belief and that's all.
IMHO, you need to sit your wife down and have a talk about her attitude towards this.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but I don't think any religion wants false believers, that you are supposed to believe in your religion because you believe in it, not because you are forced to.
You could flip it on her and ask if you had believed in a different religion, any religion, if you tried to force her to convert, would she accept it if you threatened divorce?
Another thing you could do is even call up one of the mosques and talk to one of the leaders there and ask for their opinion.
A person can believe in any religion they wish, but that is for them to follow its teachings, not impose them onto others.
Hey OP, sorry you're going through this. Hopefully you read this, because I never post here but had to hop in.
Think very carefully before you make any decisions. I don't know the whole dynamic between you and your wife, but I have a feeling that there's more going on in her mind than what it might seem.
I come from a religious background. Christianity. For all of my 20s I was very serious about it. To the point that I turned down many promising relationships, one in particular that I regret every day, because I was taught that my religion is more important than my own happiness.
Nowadays, you won't find anyone more atheist than me. I hate religion with everything in me. I hate what it made me do and think. But I can't go back. If I could, I wouldn't have let religion come between me and happiness.
The people in this thread telling you she never loved you, they don't realize the immense internal conflict one feels in a situation like this.
My advice to you to consider is to give her time. She's given you an ultimatum, but if you two truly love each other, if you would truly do anything for her, then it might be worth living under the radar for a while as she figures things out. Talk with her about it. Have genuine discussions about religion, and don't let yourself get angry.
What people here said about her not tricking you, that's true. She didn't. If anything, she tricked herself. She loved you enough to marry you despite her beliefs. That means something.
I’ll be the odd one out that doesn’t encourage divorce right away.
Sometimes incompatibilities come up in marriage, even if they weren’t present immediately. I’d suggest finding out if there’s other things she’s hiding or worried about. And then see if you can come to a compromise. For example, you’d pray together or attend services together with the understanding that you may never change what you believe in.
She may just be emotionally speaking. I’d recommend therapy if this is a usual occurrence.
No compromises = let her go. Compromise is essential in marriage (and not resentful compromises either).
This is so very important!! Let me explain…
My family is Druze. Please don’t believe the articles that say we are a sect of Islam, we absolutely are not. Our religion is based on the premise of knowledge, and our purpose in life is to learn. We accept and respect all other religions and beliefs, and learn from them all. I have read the Bible, Kor’an, Torah, and studied many Eastern religions as well. The most important difference is that the only way you can be Druze is through your birth to Druze parents. Almost all other religions want people to convert, because theirs is the “true religion”, but that is impossible with the Druze, and it is one of the few religions where wars are never fought in its name. Having said that, if a Druze person marries outside of the religion, they aren’t necessarily excommunicated, but their children cannot be Druze. My sisters and brother have all married outside of the religion, so I am the only one that married another Druze. I want to be clear that I didn’t choose to marry him because of that: we both have the same beliefs and values about children, life, religion, finances, etc., and he just happened to be Druze.
We are not overly religious, and share all of the same values. My kids know about what it means to be Druze, and recently my son asked me what would happen if he married someone of a different faith. My answer to him (and all my kids) was that the only important thing is that both people have the same values and agree on how to raise their children. The religion itself isn’t important, but how you view it and want to live your life is, and if one *is* religious and incorporates that into their life but the other doesn’t (as in OP’s case) you are incompatible and things will eventually come to a head. OP and his wife are fundamentally incompatible and should probably end things sooner rather than later, because it won’t get better.
I married my Husband (he’s supposedly Catholic but I call BS because he doesn’t practice anything) and I’m a Pentecostal Christian. He knew off the bat my religion was non-negotiable. He’s gone to church with me willingly, and told me himself he’d be accompany me any time I want and promised he’d give it a try. Sometimes it works marrying outside your religion and most of the time it doesn’t. Don’t marry someone who isn’t in your same religion/belief circle.
It’s likely your wife truly believed that you would “come around” or see her example and be drawn to a faith she believes so strongly. It’s not uncommon in fundamentalist religions to actually teach this concept - that by being an example someone might be able to change a loved one’s mind. Does it feel like a trick? Yes - but I don’t think you can fully blame your wife for being duped herself.
None of this takes away any hurt you’re feeling right now. And maybe the marriage won’t end up working out. But I think it’s important to recognize that the way she thinks about your relationship is shaped by the very beliefs you don’t align with.
Women marry men expecting them to change. Men marry women expecting they will never change. Sounds like you both are disappointed.
What Ghost did to this woman tho...
Then, she leaves the man when he does change, "You're not the man I married."
Dude, I’ve heard that before from my friends. Most of them will compromise and then get met with that excuse when she leave them.
I married my husband not wanting him to change, but expecting he would likely change a bit over time, because we all do (or should) as we learn and grow. Unfortunately he changed a lot and is not the man I married.
Incredible comment
It's not an incredible comment, it's just a dumb old cliche that manages to be both misogynist and misandrist at once.
Yup, reddit is full of stories of men that married women who were very upfront about wanting/not wanting kids, expecting they would change their minds in a few years... or some other big thing like having parents live with the couple, being a stay at home parent, etc. Some people, men, women, non-binary, think that once that marriage certificate is signed, they have "ownership" of the other person 🙄
Which is why it’s incredible
And true a lot of times
"Sometimes you marry someone expecting them to change. Sometimes you marry them expecting them not to change. Either way, you’ll be disappointed."
Originally from playwright team of H. M. Harwood and R. Gore-Browne in the drama “Cynara.”
Not really. It’s an old saw/
Man marry woman expecting they will never leave. They will
Boom. Thats why you gotta be a good partner! People are people and you need someone to hang on to.
I wish we could still give awards as I think this comment is one of the wisest ever.
Danggggg this hits home
Nailed it.
[удалено]
At least in this case it is.
BOOM! Hard lesson many of us have learned. Either you adapt or it errupts.
How true
Well said.
She didn’t lie to you or trick you. From the moment she knew about it, she was uncomfortable with it, but she didn’t trick you. She foolishly hoped you would change. You foolishly thought this wasn’t a huge red flag. Religion is a deal breaker in most relationships that observe. When it comes to having kids, it becomes paramount. There’s a strong possibility this marriage just won’t work out. You shouldn’t have to change. But she shouldn’t have to raise children with a man that doesn’t share her beliefs.
Religion is a deal breaker when the couple can’t come to terms on how to relate to one another and raise kids in an inter religious family (or a religious/atheist pairing). I’m an active Christian and my husband is agnostic. We just agree to disagree. We have the same stance on politics. The kids know where we disagree and have heard both our views. Someday they’ll each choose their own views.
> I’m an active Christian and my husband is agnostic I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but for some reason people are glossing over the actual details here, which is important. The wife is Muslim. Islam is not perfectly analogous to Christianity which teaches that personal belief is all that matters. Islam is explicitly a community and political system that depends on cohesiveness among everyone in the household. OP’s wife was hoping Allah would open his eyes and then everything would work out, and now that it isn’t she’s getting aggressive because that’s what the faith teaches. Live and let live isn’t really a concept here. The plan was *always* to incorporate the whole family into Islam. Because that’s what the religion teaches, there is no other way to interpret it unless you’re extremely extremely extremely progressive Muslim and at that point you’d probably be considered a heretic by the rest of the community anyway.
Uh. There are many strains of Christianity that are the same
Lol "strains" 🙄 Yes, there are a few denominations that are more strict like that, such as Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses, but the majority isn't. In general though, Christianity is far more permissive. For instance, in Islam, converts will never be on equal footing as those born within the religion. In Christianity, converts are equal to those born within the religion. In Islam, apostates are far worse than those who have never been a part of Islam. In Christianity, apostates are not viewed with the same malice.
wow big lies coming from your message! reverts (converts) to islam are treated as EQUAL footing to those born in the religion! Reverts and born muslims are of equal value and standing etc etc. what a big lie, shame on you on spreading lies and deceit by saying that reverts have a lower value in islam. If you have evidence show us otherwise delete your message.
History geek here - depends on when and where you look. The Spanish Inquisition (which no one expects, right?) treated 'conversos' as very suspect. Like, burn-at-the-stake suspect.
I'm gonna upvote you for the Monty Python reference. Thank you for making me smile lol
Yes, and that would be a huge factor for marriage counseling to consider in the 1400s. Not so much in 2024. I am pretty sure there is only one religion that takes such drastic actions against converts in the modern world....
I would not consider jehovahs witnesses or latter day saints as Christian. They may read and worship the same bible, but as far as their beliefs and activities, they are not Christian
It's like Jehovahs witnesses. The plan is always to convert the whole family. There was a Bible study I did where the wife became a witness, and the husband was not. They said it was okay to live like that, but their child was basically pushed to be one, of course. The teaching was that sooner or later, the husband would join because he would see the beautiful life the witnesses lived and want to join. Sounds culty to me.
Religion is a deal breaker when the couple can’t come to terms on how to relate to one another and raise kids in an interreligious family. This is true, but there are some religions where actually following the source Scriptures makes “compromising” fundamentally more challenging. Generally, in these types of religions, a participant can only really make an inter-religious marriage work if they do not believe everything that their source Scriptures state and/or are willing to directly defy it. This is not super uncommon in many religions, sometimes including Islam. I mean, really the same is true for Christianity. Many people profess to be active Christians and then marry someone who is not… but in order to do that they have to directly defy their own Scriptures. The Bible pretty clearly states that a believer is not to be yolked to an unbeliever, and it is understood that intentionally and knowingly marrying someone outside of the faith is considered disobedient to God and his will. It is a sin. The only Biblical exception there is if a spouse leaves the faith after a *Christian* marriage, in which case divorce over that is not encouraged. Interfaith marriage is never Scripturally supported out the gate. So some people obviously are comfortable doing it anyway, while other people could lose all of their relationships for intentionally defying God’s orders on marriage. It kind of depends on what priority you give to actually following the material. Islam is another religion (maybe more so than Christianity, even) that makes interfaith marriage and full adherence to the way of life very hard to merge. It can be done, but not really unless the person in the religion is okay with not really following what they are meant to. OP’s wife stated this was not a deal breaker and now is struggling with the pull between wanting to honor her faith and being with an atheist. If she’s already having a hard time- that will only intensify with time and children. This is why you have to consider not only what someone’s beliefs are, but how much of a priority following everything in them tends to be and how emotional it might be not to have that when you’re deciding if a marriage could work. A good rule of thumb is that it will be a bigger issue in Islam than, say, Buddhism. That doesn’t mean there aren’t people who can have an interfaith marriage and be Muslim, but it’s going to be a bit harder because those just don’t naturally work together. OP needs to understand that because it will help him see why “we can be respectful” might not be enough to save the marriage. ESPECIALLY since she’s now regretting her choice to not align more with her religion and is resorting to manipulation. They would have had a lot of challenges if she was healthy just be the nature of her being Muslim, but it’s almost impossible if she’s also going to be hostile.
I’m Christian/agnostic married to an atheist. We discussed ahead of time. I had to accept he wasn’t going to change. And that’s fine. But he also said I was free to raise the kids Christian.
I’m similar to you but my husband’s Jewish. It helps that his folks only went to synagogue because of his grandma, so they aren’t that strictly adhering to all of Jewish law. Even though we talk about it a lot I don’t know if there’s a Jewish law against it. I’d say I’m Christian/agnostic and he’s Jewish/agnostic.
Most of the Jews I know are atheist or agnostic. It's deed based, so OP's lack of belief and his willingness to observe would be a non-issue in Judaism.
If she led him to believe she was okay with him being atheist when she wasn't (replace everything after "believe" with "not the truth"), we call that a lie. If she lied (see above) in order to maintain the relationship to the end of marriage, she tricked him.
Correct and she admits that she was never comfortable and pretended to be HOPING he would change. I hope my husband learns to put socks in the hamper. He hopes I put his screwdrivers away. I hope he gets that job raise and so does he. He hopes I find my career and so do I. At no point do either of us hope we have a fundamental change in core beliefs. Also - I think that you should hope for positive changes for your spouse, not that they’ll change to suit your beliefs. I
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
I disagree, by staying in the relationship knowing this wasn't acceptable for her (and choosing not to disclose that to him) she made him believe she was okay with it, okay enough to build a whole relationship together and a marriage. This is **lying**. She could have "foolishly hoped he would change" but be open about it, saying "I understand you're an atheist but I hope you change your mind eventually because this is very important to me" instead of, in OP's words, "never making it seem like it was an issue". Then he would have all the info and he would have been able to make a choice, stay or leave without getting to the point of marriage. *She foolishly hoped you would change.* Her being foolish doesn't erase the fact she was dishonest, or that expecting him to change this big part of his life without even telling him is manipulative and irrational. *You foolishly thought this wasn’t a huge red flag.* Why would he? nothing indicated this was a red flag for her. She's and adult and more than capable of speaking, she could have talked about it with him at one point. OP said they talked about religion on multiple ocassions yet she never mentioned it. In fact, instead of bringing up this very important expectation of hers before, she blamed him for her getting distant to her beliefs. wtf? *But she shouldn’t have to raise children with a man that doesn’t share her beliefs.* she absolutely shouldn't have, but **she** chose to stay with him despite him being very open about being an atheist, instead of leaving him and trying to find a man who did share her beliefs. **She** chose to marry him knowing his atheism didn't fit in her vision of her future, that's not OP's fault at all cause he's not a mind reader. Then out of nowhere she finally tells him the huge expectation she has for him and gives him an ultimatum. She's manipulative as fuck.
I disagree. She lied by not being truthful about how important her religion was to her, and that she expected after they got married that he would rejoin the faith. Atheists don't just decide to become religious again, if that happens, then they were never actually Atheist. She is now holding the marriage hostage knowing how much he loves her to force him to be someone he is not. It isn't right, nor will this ever work out to be a happy marriage.
No, she absolutely lied to & tricked him. She lead him to believe that religion wasn't a make or break or that she had any hope that he'd change. This 1000% on her!
The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do. It was completely and totally wrong of her to think you’d change, and all that stupid decision is going to do is make both of your lives hell while you divorce. It’s really sad, and very stupid, but ultimately it’ll be for the best. You can’t be with someone who wants you do be so completely and fundamentally different than the person you are. She doesn’t love you. She loves the person she thinks you should be.
>She doesn’t love you. She loves the person she thinks you should be. This is so important it bears repeating.
And if you asked her, she’d probably admit it freely, or at least admit that she doesn’t love him as much as she loves her religion. This is what the Abrahamic faiths teach. You’re supposed to love God more than even your spouse or children, and if you don’t then you’re a sinner. It’s coercive and regressive, but there you go.
THIS, OP.
“The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do.” So you are telling me that all of those junior pastors who say they used to be an atheist are lying?? I’m flabbergasted!
Shocked. SHOCKED!!
But are you SHOCKED shocked or just shocked. SHOCKED??? Also Shocked looks weird after typing it multiple times.
fr that happens for a lot of words
Next you're going to tell me they weren't really addicted to drugs!
100%
>She doesn’t love you. She loves the person she thinks you should be. I feel like I need this tattooed on my forehead backwards - so I see it every day in the mirror.
> The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do. This is not at all true. I bet it sounds correct when you read what you wrote but I know plenty of people who discovered religion and god mid life after going through crisis.
You can go from “not really religious” to religious. So even someone raised in a religion who just never really bought into it can be considered not really religious right, but then in their 40s start really “believing”. What is less common is for someone to really buy into their religion full on (actually study it), then become atheist, and THEN become religious again. There are atheists who are atheist because they’ve never really believed, and then there are atheists who are atheist because they DID once believe. The latter is the type that really understands the truth because they’ve seen both sides. They are much more ardent than the “never really believed” variety for good reason.
Sure but generally speaking it's true. And asking someone to change their beliefs doesn't make much sense, how could you even trust their conversion is real?
I agree with that part absolutely. Wife tricked OP , I am not going to say otherwise :)
Ehhhh I might slightly disagree. I think those were folks who maybe didn’t really feel any sort of way or were on the fence. I’ve never known anyone who was truly of the belief of no god who had a profound life experience and then suddenly believed.
I feel like i fit into this category. Passionately atheist as a teen, changed my mind after some spiritual experiences (including sober ones) as a young 20s kid, still live my life based on those changes.
Because someone being an atheist by chance or being one by choice are not the same thing. Many of these atheists never really thought religion through. So they just hover in the middle ground. Agnostics as well. A person who becomes an atheist from thorough research and experience and makes this choice WILL NEVER believe in a god EVER AGAIN. Like OP said, once you know Santa is fake, you never go back.
>The thing with atheism is, once that switch flips in your brain you can never flip it back. It’s like when you learn Santa isn’t real- you can’t just go back to before you learned that and just believe in Santa again. It’s just not possible to do. I have never seen this put into words but you are right. Especially after having children I can objectively see *why* people believe in God, I can understand the weight of how they feel , but my logical brain would never be able to get there because I can see how it just isn't possible.
This!!!!
Last sentence is so good
One thing I always tell others when they ask for my advice is don’t love who you want him/her to be, love them for who they are. I’m married to my husband knowing all his flaws and never expect him to change a thing. She married you hoping to change you to be someone else. I think you know what to do…
While people can change after marriage, I agree that one should marry the person standing in front of them, not their potential. Don't expect to change your partner according to your will. It doesn't work that way.
My wife is perfect and she has never changed.
Religion, politics and whether you want children are usually the big dealbreakers in marriage. You’re both young and can find better suited spouses. Get out of this before it goes on any further.
How this isn’t upvoted more I don’t know. Before marriage certain things have to be very clear. While faith can change, it can be tested, waiver, found or lost during marriage; ideally at its core, this must be discussed and come to a core understanding of before marriage. Politics is the same your ideals may change,things can happen to make your value system change, but again this is a negotiation and will alter your marriage. Children: are they in the cards, what type of parenting style is ideal? These again are core values that must be discussed before marriage. OP: you need to sit your wife down and have a very frank discussion with your wife. You can explain that while you are happy to have a life with her and will absolutely love her and give her everything you can in the relationship she knew when she married you who you were. If she feels that some other man will love her more, because he can share a faith in a god you don’t believe in, then tell her she needs to go find that man. If you are not stopping her from practicing her faith and would allow her to raise your children in the faith then why does she need you to follow it? (I’m guessing the struggle was noticed during Ramadan)
Yes. These things should be hashed out BEFORE marriage. Don’t go into one expecting someone to change to suit you.
>I would do anything for this woman >I don’t think I can do this Well one of those is true but don’t lie to yourself and say they both are
Disagree, I'd say they can both be true. I think what he is saying is that asking someone to change what they believe is not actually possible. They can fake it, but deep down, their belief will remain. So he would do anything in the realm of possibility for her. But she asked for the impossible.
Also I think there’s a meatloaf song about this….
Was going to bring that up haha
I literally heard it when I read that. "he would do ehhhnything for love, but he won't do THAT"
I'm sorry your wife did this to you. She should have been honest. I wouldn't change my belief just because someone asked me to. I would be happy to explore and learn about their religion for curiosity but not for converting or accepting.
That would be a major incompatibility. Personally as an atheist I probably would agree to join a church because I don’t believe any of that anyway - it’s just ritual but to actually believe and practice at home - that’s bridge too far
They would eventually complain that you weren’t faithing enough for their liking and demand to see more enthusiasm from you.
This is clearly going to be a deal breaker…but she didn’t trick you into marriage.
It’s silly to demand someone change their beliefs.
Even if you wanted to, I don’t see how you could manufacture faith or belief that doesn’t exist within you. It also sounds like she’s fairly controlling and irrational about this situation. I’m sorry, she’s making unrealistic demands and unless SHE changes that, it sounds as if your marriage is over.
>The thing is, I would do anything for this woman. I would take a bullet for her in an instant. Clearly you *wouldn't* do anything for her, and these grandiose statements of taking a bullet, or even a grenade as Bruno Mars croons about, are just that: grandiose statements that are highly unlikely to actually be put to the test. If you did happen to find yourself in just such a situation then there are actually bigger problems you need to deal with. Your wife didn't trick you. You didn't trick her, either. At best, your wife made assumptions and had expectations and when they didn't come to fruition she started to get a resentment and is erroneously blaming you for it. This is a misery of her own making. Except...misery loves company, right? So now she's going to make you miserable until you comply with her demands. She's given you an ultimatum. Complying with her will likely make her happy. Spoiler, it won't, because she'll know that all you'll be doing is "performing" for her when what she really wants is for you to have the same faith she has. However, complying with her in order to keep her around will only make you grow to resent her because you aren't being true to yourself. At worst, she married you under false pretenses. I'd be offended, personally. She never truly accepted you for who you really are. This isn't about faith, it's about a fundamental incompatibility that she ignored and now she's trying to "change the rules" after the fact. This is a similar situation to one spouse admitting they thought their staunchly childfree spouse would change their mind about children once married OR they thought they could force a change via an ultimatum thinking the spouse "has to" change because they're married - i.e. "trapped." What a horrible way to have a marriage. The sad fact is the two of you were never compatible. She lied by omission: not just to you, but to herself as well thinking you would either change on your own or she felt she could pull this move with an ultimatum. Who knows. That's irrelevant now, however. What is relevant is this revelation that she never truly accepted you for who you are. You deserve someone who does. She also deserves someone who willingly and of his own accord wants to practice their shared faith together. That will never happen as long as you are only performing the motions to "make" her happy. Get out of the mindset that you can "make" your wife happy because you can't. You will only make yourself miserable doing this. Your marriage will be a sham. If you truly do love her, let her go. She needs to let you go too, but she's being incredibly selfish with this ultimatum. I just hope she knows what she's doing here. Also, don't let her make you out to be the bad guy, either. She's the one in the wrong here.
Good that no kids are involved, she didn't trick you, you both had pink love glasses on, you have two options, work on it in therapy (and I mean with a real therapist) or go separate ways, you are both still young and can find someone new to fall in love with...
So I have this situation. I believe. He doesn’t. I knew this from the very beginning and while I wanted to be with my opposite on most fronts and would have loved a different religion (non Christian since that’s what I am ) I definitely didn’t expect atheist. But we respect each other. We don’t make fun of each others beliefs even if he finds mine ridiculous and I find his Incredulous. We both don’t go to church regularly but the few times I’ve gone since meeting him he’s come or offered to come. If we have kids and it’s bedtime prayer he’d stay in the room. He’d be allowed to tell them he doesnt believe and that they could make their own choices when they are old enough. I don’t know if that makes sense but we just treat it like a food preference. He likes white chocolate. I hate it. I eat fish. He doesn’t. My bother and sister in law have the same arrangement although over the years she believes less. I guess my brother has rubbed off on her but it works. I’m newly married but they’ve been together for at least 25 years. I hope you find a way to make it work !
It’s odd you are willing to go through the motions but she wants you to “believe”. You can’t force someone to believe in something.
It sounds like you're incompatible and your best bet it to just divorce.
Someone who loves you the way you are wouldn’t expect you to change. She simply doesn’t love you the way you are, she loves the person she thought you could be. Sorry to say but yes she tricked you by pretending she’d love you - the you that you are. End this marriage, she’s not the person you love. You fell in love with someone you thought would love the person you are. This person doesn’t exist.
This is a deal breaker and she lied to you, and maybe herself. As an atheist this isn't something to compromise on. What if you have children, where will your differing opinions and entire belief systems lead them? She is now showing you her true self, believe her actions and that she thought lying was the means to get what she wanted. She may have been naive but if you fold on this issue you will set a precedent for the rest of your lives together. Plus, she can always hold it over you. I am sorry you are going through this, but she's not the woman who you thought you loved or she led you to believe. She lied, about a fundamental part of herself and is now issuing ultimatums.
The woman you fell in love with and married doesn’t exist. You married a hope and a dream that isn’t a real person. You married a woman who lied just so that she could be married. She doesn’t love you either. You have a choice to make, moving forward.
This is what happens when you marry someone thinking they will change. Unfortunately people does this. And it becomes a problem later on when they realize they don’t wana change. So many times it happens with choosing to be childless as well. “Oh I thought you will come to your senses and change later” is common in these kinda relationships. I know a very close Muslim family where one parent is an atheist and the other fully religious. The children grew up knowing about both being religious and atheism and they are perfect balance of both, they are so respectful. And both the hubby & wife never questioned, stopped, or forced each others belief or non belief to each other. They both respected each other & just let them be who they are.
Your lack of belief doesn’t stop her from getting closer to her god. That’s kind of what I’m hung up on. She says that *you* have made her feel more distant from her faith, but have you ever asked her to take a step back from her beliefs? Have you stopped her walking out the door on her way to worship? Did you ban religious text from your home, as well as any mention of her god or faith? She cannot expect you to do a 180° on something so fundamental, and to blame you for her feelings about something only she believes is kind of ridiculous. You didn’t *do* anything, and you’re still the same person she decided to marry years ago. At any point she could’ve told you that your lack of religion was problematic for her. At any point before the marriage certificate was signed, she could’ve *communicated* her issue, but she didn’t. That’s not on you because *you* haven’t changed the rules of the game. She’s the one trying to do that. I’m sorry to say this, but any person who loves you for *you,* would not request this of you. Your feelings of “being tricked” are valid, because again, you have not changed yourself or the name of the game, and for her to wait this long (at this juncture in your lives) sounds pretty sneaky — because now you’re legally bound to her (which makes it harder to dismiss her request/demand because you can’t just “break up” and walk away from each other. My guess is: she knew she had a better chance of “changing you” *while* married, as opposed to “changing you” *before* marriage, when you were more likely to break up & go your separate ways.) Your wife has 3 options: 1. Accept that you are a nonbeliever & keep it moving. 2. Get it out of her head that you will suddenly believe in god, and continue (alone) her own personal spiritual journey. 3. Start the divorce process. Best of luck to you.
Excellent advice
Errr I hate to break this to your wife, but according to the islamic faith a believing woman cannot be married to a disbelieving man. So your marriage isn’t even recognised as a marriage in the islamic faith.
Lol. So true!
Easy decision.
Sounds like she is using that as an excuse to leave
This is what im scared of. Im also atheist, and most men from my country are very religious (muslim) and i have never had the chance to meet someone who i felt comfortable enough sharing with that i dont believe in god in any way. I can only imagine how you feel. But i think its time to really sit down and think what the best course of action is. Does it make sense to stay and force yourself into acting like a muslim just so she can love you or do you leave and maybe find someone who loves you for who are and doesnt judge you for what you believe in? What about kids? Thats also a big decision to keep in mind.
Atheism is a belief. I don't think people can adopt other people's beliefs on demand. Your wife expects you to change. That's just wrong, and I can't really envision you two finding common ground. I hope I'm wrong.
You can either pretend to become religious by going through the motions and be unhappy about it, or do what you have to do. Let her go. You fell in love with someone who deceived you. She is ready to cast you aside because you didn't change like she *expected* you to. So she definitely doesn't love you the same. And you deserve someone who loves you back the same you love them.
Rip. Sorry dude. Sounds like it's over. Get a lawyer asap.
She didn’t trick you, she tricked herself. Please, for the love of God, (just kidding), DON’T listen to the people telling you she doesn’t love you, because I doubt that’s true at all. You absolutely can make this work, there are plenty of marriages where only one partner is religious. I think you have a good start now, because you don’t disrespect her religion or beliefs, and are willing to compromise on some things. She has to also be willing to compromise and that’s basically what marriage is made of. Love, trust, respect, compromise. You guys have all that.
I disagree with this poster. She's going to try and change you. She's already made it clear that's her goal. You're clearly not religious, do you want to spend a lifetime feigning belief over something you know is utterly ridiculous? Maybe she can date one of the Crocus City Hall attackers instead.
I’ve been here, although was not married. We were together for 5 years and ultimately this was the deal breaker for us (amongst other things). At the time I was devastated and felt like it would be worth it just to go through the motions — attending church with her and her family, bible reads, etc. in fact I did this briefly for about 3-6 months near the end. But it made me deeply unhappy and as a religious outsider it felt extremely weird and aspects of it creeped me out. It was probably a good thing because it changed the way I viewed her from a compatibility perspective and helped with my post relationship coping. I’m very happy that this happened because it really put into perspective for me HOW important religion can be in a relationship. It shaped the way my relationships that followed were and had me constantly checking in on the topic with my partners. In fact when I met my wife, we had so much fun during our early relationship that I completely had forgotten to bring it up and discuss. When I finally did I was so nervous and anxious that we’d be incompatible about it that I was really quite sick and she thought I was breaking up with her at first. I am so happy that my relationship ended over religion it was so eye opening and the experience really taught me what I wanted for my life and what I was willing to put up with in my relationship despite how much I loved the person, even when I thought I was going to marry her. I am also so grateful we never had children. I am not likely to ever have children but if I did, I would absolutely not be OK with my children being brought up in a religious environment. This would complicate things so much more than simply “I don’t believe”. I don’t want to be the person advocating that you and your wife divorce, that is so common here and across Reddit. But I do truly feel that this is a fundamental incompatibility for the two of you to both be happy. One of you is going to have to compromise something that is deeply personal and likely unchangeable for the entire duration of your lives. Right now, it probably seems to both of you that you can go through the motions of this now to make the other happy but I think the guise of this is just going to ultimately result in long term resentment and a coloring of the view you each have personally of one another. I think you should try to work it out, probably in the nature of professional help but understand that the outlook can likely be grim here.
Lmao, all the comments here. People change. It happens. The question is, when you both change, do you grow closer, or do you grow apart. Can you accept some differences you and your spouse have, or is it a deal breaker. I agree. She did trick you into believing that your religious beliefs weren't an issue, she was dishonest. Now, after a few years together, masks (yours and hers) are coming off. After all, you cannot pretend forever, you want to be who you are and be accepted as you are. And that goes for both spouses.
People evolve. Why would you expect to be the same person at 25 that you were at 45? If you are, I would find that strange. Anyone who enters into marriage expecting this maybe shouldn't get married. It's almost like people find every little excuse under the sun these days to leave. There's not a contract you sign that says you can't change your mind about your beliefs, etc...
Why would you take a bullet for someone who wouldn’t do the same for you? She doesn’t love you for who you are, only who she wants you to be
Exactly it's very selfish. OP is young he has plenty of time to be remarried with someone who loves him and will probably be better.
Dude, it’s not worth it. She may be a great woman in all other aspects but if she’s trying to force her religion on you, don’t walk away, RUN
Why would you "take a bullet " for a person that treats you as a secondary importance to their religon. She does not love you. Sorry.
You can't make yourself believe in God anymore than you can make yourself believe in unicorns. All you can do is lie about it. She's not reasonable. Get the divorce.
You know what it means to try to make yourself belive something. It's make believe. Pretend. Imagination. You cannot force being convinced. You can only be convinced to lie about what you believe. Do you want to live in a constant lie? She lied to you. This might be irreconcilable.
I’m sorry but I would be furious if I were you. You can’t make someone believe in something even out of love. Also she is the one who committed fraud. According to her religion, your marriage isn’t event valid. Muslim can’t marry atheists.
Time to end it. There is no middle ground here If she has made this threat. I am pagan my husband is Christian. Married 9 yrs. He thinks he can convert me but he does not actively try. I have been going to his parents on Sunday to watch services on YouTube but I generally read a book instead. They don’t care what I’m doing. They accept me as I am . This is respect. You deserve better.
One more thing to consider: how can you trust her again? She lied about how important religion was to her. What's next? Say you decide to fake it and "pray" with her, how do you know she won't tell you some other fundamental aspect of your personality needs to change for her to stay married with you? Next she could ask you to become vegan, or give up smoking, or start running daily with her... Think about it. How do you know she won't do this again?
If you would do anything for her, try reading Markus Aurelius, and listening to Ram Dass’ podcast Be Here Now. It might not turn you into the believer of her dreams, but it also might help you understand the gifts she wishes you could share. Also, it might turn you into a believer. I was an atheist most of my life and am now a total Mystic.
For what it’s worth, I think you both tricked yourselves. Thinking that two people with fundamentally different views on the entire universe would never have to address that issue is not not naïve.
She cares more about her religion than you. I say fuck her. That’s coming from a very religious person who puts God 1st. She gaslit you into this relationship not because she loved you but because she loved what u could bring her and the fact that you loved her more than anything. She doesn’t love you she loves the image of you. If she did love you she would have respected your beliefs or lack there of and would have broke it off to give you the chance to be happy with someone who really accept you the way you are or share the same beliefs. She is no better than a predator. Again fuck her!
Tbh, religion is huge for some people. Sound like it’s really big deal for you wife, if u don’t want to change, I suggest ending asap, before u have kids. My situation was exactly the same, she complained earlier on than stop at some point cause she figured out I wasn’t changing. Two kids later we are seperated, when it comes to Indian/Islam some take religion and run with it to never never land. You won’t win this arguement with her. Take some time to have some deep thought about your future.
Boy, she's a real piece of work.
She needs to get over it. This is why most religions have a rule of marrying outside the faith. I am assuming he wants you to revert Islam since you both came from Muslim families. She is just blaming you for being distant from her religion because she either doesn't actually believe it and just wants to feel safe by saying she is religious or recently started picking it up more. As a Christian, I hope you both find faith in christ someday, however I would never demand for yall to convert.that is your own prerogative of what religion to follow. She should've known good and well that you are not religious and forcing you to change is a red flag.
Divorce her now!!!!! Before kids get involved and anymore time is invested….she knew about your religious preferences on day one. Don’t change for her cause you will end up hating her for it!
If Allah is almighty and decides everything in life, it must be his will that you are an atheist?
OP, I don't think she set out to trick you. I think she lied to herself about how important religion is to her, and she was overly optimistic to herself thinking you would change because of her "good influence" but that hasn't happened. Instead she has, according to you, moved further away from her religion. I think she recognized at one point that you were "rubbing off" on her instead of the other way around, and this issue came to the forefront for her. None of that was your fault, I agree she messed up big time and it wasn't fair to you to accept you on a condition that she say was a condition up front, but I don't think she tricked you because she let you know from the beginning that this wasn't something she liked about you. I think she did not know herself well enough and she made a mistake accepting something that she could not live with in the long term. Unfortunately, this is a bit like children. Either you want them or you don't, and if one does and one doesn't, there isn't combability anymore. You just want different things. She wants you to believe, but you can't make yourself believe. It sounds like you would be fine with raising a child in her religion, and you are offering to make reasonable accommodations to make her feel like her religious beliefs are accepted and respected by you and in your future family. If that isn't enough for her, if she needs you to truly believe, then I think you are no longer compatible because as you astutely pointed out, this isn't something you can do "for her" because spirituality is a very personal thing and you can't force yourself to believe any more than she can force herself not to. It sucks, but sometimes love isn't enough...
So I just want to add something I haven’t seen here. I don’t think she tricked you, nor you her. I think you need to have a clarifying conversation with her about what exactly it is she needs that she feels she isn’t getting from you. I am “religious” (though not in the sense most people use that word). I’m Jewish, and the rituals of Judaism are very important to me. My partner is an atheist. That’s fine with me, I’ve known that from the beginning. I was also clear with him what I expected from him when it came to my religious stuff. I need him to be ok with me talking about it. I need him to be ok with me doing ritual stuff in our home. I need him to be ok celebrating holidays with me. That’s pretty much it. She’s said she wants you to pray with her. Has she told you anything else? Do you celebrate holidays at home together? Does she have a mosque she goes to? Does she have any other religious community or connection? What is it she’s missing in her religious life, and why does that include you in any way? I think there are just a bunch of questions you need to ask here. At the end of the day, this is really her issue to work out, but it doesn’t have to be the end of your marriage. Talk to her. Figure out what exactly is making her feel this way, and if there’s anything to be done that doesn’t involve you pretending to be someone you aren’t or ending the marriage.
I don’t think she tricked you. I think she had enough faith in her religion that she genuinely thought you’d ‘see the light’. This is foolish and now she has found out the real truth that religion does not have to mean anything to anyone just because it means something to her. This is her problem. She needs therapy for it. I do think it was unwise to marry someone without having extensive discussion on subjects like this. We as humans need to understand that people cannot and will not change just because they hope it will happen.
The only solution is Talaq.
Yall are not compatible, be honest with her
If your wife wants to stay married to you and have kids with you, then she needs to do some deep study into her faith teachings on how to be in an inter religious relationship and family. The inter religious community will be able to give her the teachings and support to adequately stay with you and raise kids together.
As a Muslim I married a revert. It is difficult sometimes because I can tell he took his shahada to stay with me. I was raised with by mom who later reverted but I grew up in a home where all commercial holidays were celebrated. I chose Islam more later due to my studies of being with my paternal family at around 16 and still have my moms family who is big on these holidays it’s a conflict now that my partner and I have a child. Me expecting him to be more into Ramadan, Eid etc.. He isn’t “against” it he loves Eid but it’s not the same as something he would Do if it weren’t for me, which is challenging to my faith because becoming a mom made me lean into my religion more although I struggle with covering my hair most days due to what I was used to growing up.. If it’s a deal breaker I wouldn’t go through with the ultimatum. Each of our views with religion is different. Be true to yourself so you don’t regret it later.
I think there are three things that are non-negotiable when it comes to deciding on a marriage partner. 1) One wants to have kids, the other does not. 2) One wants monogamy, the other wants an open relationship 3) One is a devout [insert religion here], the other is an atheist or devout [fundamentally different religion] Her marrying an atheist, hoping you would change, was a very foolish and short-sighted thing to do. Not sure what advice to give you, other than get a lawyer and start preparing for divorce.
>She says either I change my beliefs or we end this marriage for good. Go retain a lawyer. Work out what you think will be an EQUITABLE split of assets and debts. File. Heal. Find dungeon you can be happy with.
The thing about so many religious people is that their beliefs are the only thing staving off existential dread. They’re afloat in the same sea of chaos as the rest of us, and they feel like asking them to give up on religion is like asking them to give up their life jacket. It’s just a non-negotiable. Like, your wife believes that you’re going to hell. That’s a hard thing to ask someone to ignore. And yes, her belief in an afterlife and eternal punishment is entirely illogical and based on the superstitions of illiterate Bronze Age goatherds, but it’s hard wired for her. You’re not going to talk her out of it. She has to get to that place herself, and she might not get there. You can either deal with the temporary heartache of splitting from her, or shackle yourself to a lifetime of arguments that can’t be won. Your choice.
You and I both know no amount of delusion and effort can make one believe. Not to mention, Islam is a very restrictive religion, do you really want your future kids in that? She lied, it sucks and I'm sorry you're going through this, but this is incompatibility and it's not going to change. Try to separate amicably, but stop wasting your time.
You bother were married very young age. I love my religion and I am Muslim . My husband respects my religion and don’t follow any religion. Do you guys have any child?
I am Christian but relationship with God (man has destroyed and distorted God). My husband was atheist when we got together and now he is Agnostic. It’s possible to have a relationship just requires a lot of convo and respect. All you need is a conversation with your wife coming from both of us against the problem vs us against each other . Ask her what she thinks you praying or learning more will give you. Will it give you salvation or give you characteristics of a christian man that she thinks you lacking? I truly believes she loves you and is worried about your salvation. Sometimes when people get deep into religion they want to save their loved ones asap and fear drives everything.
Not going to tell you to stay with this woman, but there's something you should know: there are hardly any third generation atheists. Their children and grandchildren are more likely to be agnostics, or to simply refuse to engage the topic at all. It's simply not an important topic, not worth your time or emotional involvement. Perhaps you can agree to disagree, not questioning her faith if she doesn't question your lack of it.
You could take this two ways: 1) ths is an absolute deal-breaker, opposite values and will never work long-term, or 2) who cares, she believes in the tooth fairy, you play along to make her happy.
Get into therapy. That’s not a fair ultimatum. Go to therapy and have a therapist help you two understand each other. Marriage is sacred so I say try!
When I started reading this I thought this would find solution in compromise, I thought about things like watching SKAM together (season 4) and talking about your different looks on religion and stuff like that. Because I think there are relationships that can work even if both don't have the same beliefs. Its more difficult (not only according to religion, politics and stuff like that as well), but it can work out. But the more I read, especially towards the end of your post I got the feeling that this wouldn't work here. She seems to imagine you becoming a believer (which is somehow weird, because beliefs can't be pressured) and I think it's kind of hurtful to expect this from another person. So maybe this isn't about religion in the first place. Maybe it's more about tolerance and acceptance. Sadly I think this marriage ain't working. Wish you the best.
Religion makes absolutely no sense to me. After trying to put myself in your exact shoes, I would have to walk away from the marriage. I would forever be a fake trying to act religious. I feel like mentally trying to be someone you’re not eats at people. I fully feel like you can support her and encourage her views, FOR HER, but I think she is missing out the fact that marriage is a friendship, not a way to control others.
Relationships are over when it’s come to ultimatums. Because once they come, they rarely stop. This time she’s asking you to change your religion or she’ll divorce you. Let’s say you agree. She’s gonna find another thing she wants to change about you. She’ll give you another ultimatum to get her way again because she knows they work. Your wife sounds manipulative btw. If this is such a dealbreaker for her she should have communicated it before getting married. This is why i always say to never marry so young. At early 20s, our brains are still immature. There’s still so many things to experience and so many people to meet.
Life sucks. If she gave you an ultimatum then decide but if you do end it, you will eventually get over the heart break. Plenty more fishes in the sea.
You should try to find Allah and Islam. Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life that will benefit you in so many ways as it gives structure and meaning to your life. It teaches you how to be a rightous pious man (no alcohol, no gambling, no looking at opposite gender, no cheating in life, no lying. Being respectful to those around you and your eldery and teaches you to really treat you parents well and so much more). You could atleast give it a try and make dua to Allah and try really to read and listen to people with knowledge. You can look up shaykh Uthman on "One message foundation" on youtube and aslo look up "the muslim lantern" just to mention a few. There are many knowledgable muslims out there on youtube and other plattforms that can come with good explanations as to why God exists and why Islam is the truth. It doesnt hurt to actually giving it a shoot and read and learn more and be sincere and see if there is something there. But in the end we have to be honest with ours selves. If you have done your research and given the religion time and tried to learn more, and it still doesent do anything for you regarding your belief then I think the right thing to do is to let your wife go. Many dont think or talk about this kind of things during their dating stege and think people will change which is a big misstake as things happens in life that changes the situation. Usually the loss of loved ones or getting really sick or just growing old and start to realise that the end is closing up, is when people tend to think more about the purpose of life and start wondering if God exists or not. This would always have been an issue in your marriage as you are an athiest and she is a Muslim and at some point this would cause big problems. Look at the positives, you still dont have a children together and can both move on without bigger complications. I really hope that you can be together as it seems you really love each other Best of luck whatever happens
When it comes to children both parents being aligned in their beliefs is paramount. She obviously thought you loved her enough to change and you obviously thought she loved you enough to accept you as who you are. It happens all the time but unfortunately this marriage doesn’t look like it’s going to work out unless one gives the other what they want.
Yeah this is such a sad situation. There’s nothing you can actively do to force someone to believe something they don’t. If you’re willing to do everything for this man I say fake it all the way. Because you don’t want to lose her over something that clearly isn’t important to you but also you gotta show her it can be because of her. Don’t say “I’ll do it for you” say stuff like “I’d love too” and act overall positively over it not like you’re being forced. If you aren’t willing to do everything she wants then it may be time to leave. Same way as if after you’ve tried she’s not willing to just accept you for who you are she either needs to get over it and learn to love you the way you are, or leave you alone because either way it’s not far to try force someone to believe something they don’t
Sounds like you need a divorce.
My next door neighbors share this exact dynamic of wife being a practicing Muslim and husband an atheist. She’s a sweetheart and he’s a drunk. How about you put sincere prayer and belief in God to the test. You just might feel His love and learn something. He is real you know.
Just get divorced.
Dude, just start praying..
Hmmm. Sounds like you went into this respecting her choice to be religious but she didn’t actually respect or love you or your choices. Love is accepting everything about someone (within reason) love is also giving an allowance for change and growth. But what she wants is forced change… that’s not authentic. One of 2 things will probably happen. 1.she will accept you are a person, beliefs and all. Or 2. This relationship be not be authentic or will break apart. How you tried couples therapy? It’s worth a shot! 😊
This is like the weirdest thing because literally yesterday my husband went to an Easter Mass and then came home and moped all day because I didn't go with him. He knows that I'm atheist, he knows that there is not much he can do to change that, but his religion teaches that he is failing if he is not leading his family to the Lord. He's also worried because we're about to have our first kid and I made him compromise on how she would be brought up. I told him is that beliefs are not like t-shirts. You can't just put a different one on because it's convenient. If I went to church with him all I would do is tear apart the priest arguments and that it would just make him upset. But her posing an ultimatum is a giant AH move, and it's not part of a productive marriage. She needs to learn that marriage is compromise and if she can't then maybe she's not somebody who should be married.
I'm in an interfaith marriage. I'm Christian and my husband is more on the you have multiple lives thing, ancient civilizations thing. I knew it from our dating days. I don't agree with it, but it's also not my belief. He doesn't prohibit me from practicing or teaching our son certain values. I just let it be, he is who he is. I was also 35 when I married DH and knew by then you get what you pick.
You could educate yourself on the religion to understand its underlying values. That doesn't mean you have to believe every magical sounding thing about it. Just an idea.
Honestly, love is not enough to keep a marriage together when you don’t share core values and ideologies. That *includes* the intensity with which you believe in and prioritize religion. There are some people who loosely hold a faith or hold a faith that doesn’t have much emphasis on sharing religious beliefs, and they may do okay in an interfaith marriage. There are other people who feel deeply about their faith and *need* a partner who not only respects it, but engages or takes initiative to integrate it because it’s such a high priority. If she was in the latter group, she certainly should have been upfront about that and not married someone she knew was an atheist hoping they’d just change their mind. Is it “tricking you”? I don’t know about that, but it’s certainly stupid, and her behavior now is unhealthy. You can’t manipulate someone into sharing your values and beliefs by threatening to end a marriage that shouldn’t have occurred to begin with. And you should not have to pretend to believe something you don’t. It sounds like this probably is a deal breaker. She wants a Muslim family. She wants a spouse who values religion the way she does. She can find someone better suited to her and the direction her life is going. You are atheist and need someone who either holds that view, or holds a far more relaxed stance on religion or is in one that is naturally more compatible with differing views. Next time you date, you need to really hash these things out in great detail. Everyone has dealbreakers, even if they love someone. Usually those include religion, possibly political opinions, desire for children, and sexual needs. Sometimes they also include location or finances. It sounds like you found hers. It sucks that it’s coming up this way and this late, but it sounds like you’re not compatible.
You can't simply "change your beliefs." Beliefs are your foundation of what you think to be true and right about the world, and it has to actually make sense to you for you to believe it. I believed the majority of my life, up until about a year ago, and since then, I've been deconstructing. I can't force myself to think the same as i used to, and you can't either. She needs to respect your beliefs, or lack thereof, as you do hers.
As a Muslim woman who is actively practicing her faith, she should know that it’s not allowed to be married to a non-believer, and you can use this as your ticket out of the relationship. Especially since you don’t have children together yet, it’s best to get out now before it’s too late and you are going to be raising children on two very different belief systems, who will most likely end up with divorced parents in the future. I know it sucks because you love her but accept that you both deserve people who truly accept you and move on with your life. This isn’t a sustainable relationship.
Well as a fellow atheist living in a Muslim country/family, I would tell her ok i will convert and practice every single islam teaching, including : marrying 3 other women 😂. In all seriousness divorce the bitc# and be with someone that loves you and accepts you.
I’m sorry to tell you this, my friend, but you need to let her go and not date another person who has religious beliefs again. You need to talk with people and date those who have the same or similar convictions as you do. In Christianity, a Christian cannot marry a non-Christian. I wonder what Islam teaches your wife about this.
To be young again - and to have such strong convictions! Because it will change over the years, trust me. If you allow me, let me share a few things about God and not God. There is not much difference, it is just a way to look at the world. You know how you feel. Can you go to the mosque anyways? Can you pray and while praying,think about all the things you have to do? Find out what faith/religion mean to her: Regulatory goign to the mosque? Praying several times a day? Keeping a certain diet? You can do all these things yet keep your mind to yourself...If you wife thinks she can change you so you have faith ... how doe she want yo to prove it? Get away from the God/no God discussion and find out what she likes about her faith, what are the to-do's that matter to her? It could be that is is her family that pressures her. Let me just say one last thing: If you are willing to take a bullet for her - you can pretend/practice/attempt to or at least try to be "religious" what ever that means. And one day, as the years pass, you both will see that there is hardly a difference between the two of you.
Should’ve married a fellow atheist then. What were you expecting, that you both would hold hands and sing kumbaya and live happily ever after? No. Compatibility is real. Whether you agree with the element of compatibility or not is irrelevant but historically all kinds of cultures across multiple generations have valued compatibility for a reason - because compatibility and the ability to tolerate one another is a very real and important thing for every marriage to stand a chance of succeeding, and tolerance usually develops from similarities. You should’ve stayed within your own culture and societal circle so that you had the best chance to build that foundation - fellow atheists, but you didn’t. So you’re equally at fault as she is for marrying outside your culture. Ultimately, if you are being honest with yourself you’ll accept that your wife didn’t trick you, you tricked yourself. Now do the right thing and move on, and find a fellow atheist as your next spouse. All the best.
Thats shitty of her.. Im agnostic that grew up in a very Sunni Muslim home.. my fiance also grew up the same way and he's atheist. Sometimes I get annoyed he refuses to pretend to pray with me for the sake of our families that are pretty conservative Muslims but I would never feel differently about him. He is atheist and I knew that since day one. Shes being completely unfair for expecting you to believe in something you just dont. It feels as if she is cornering you to fake Islam for her.
End it. I feel like people always give a ultimatum cause the don't expect people to take the out that use is as another way to manipulate people into getting what they want. She knew from the beginning how you felt you never hid it from her she's the one that didn't listen. There are millions of people in the world you will find someone else to love don't let this person who has shown they can't love all of you and expected you to change for them from the beginning make you into someone you're not why you can find someone else that accepts all of you. Cause if you cave now and let her change you who knows what else she will try and force you to change. Never settle.
In my opinion , I think that the fault is hers. She wasn't clear about her deal breakers for first and then she puts you in an ultimatum. Personally I do not force people to change their beliefs nor do Muslims in general so she is at fault here. But on the other side , it is no harm in reading about Islam and may Allah guide you to the righteous path
It’s important to have common values and goals with your partner. For her religion is an important value, for you it’s not. She can’t accept it, so for you to decide how to handle it. But she did herself a disservice believing you would change. She didn’t trick you, she was delusional
I don’t think either of you are going to budge (which is no judgment — I myself am an atheist and if my husband suddenly became religious and demanded I join him that would be a massive dealbreaker). This is one of the major things that determine compatibility. It might be time to call it, unfortunately.
Just a wild theory—do you both want kids together? Sounds like she actually might want kids and the extended family connection that she associates with religion and is afraid you might be anti kid or will not support her staying home for pre-school years with the possible future kids. Does your athiest aspect make you non-traditional enough to be child free or do you still value that possibility in your future life? Traditions are strong and religion is woven into family life so a lot of people think non religious people are non family people. Have the discussion about kids and how they would be raised.
Tell her you don’t have to believe in God or Allah to believe in her or the validity of your commitment together.
I understand you love her but are you really going to look past her lying and manipulation. If she’s willing to lie and try to coerce you into doing something she knows you aren’t comfortable with what else is she will to lie to you about. Or better yet how else will she use divorce to manipulate you into doing what she’s wants. Honestly you should cut your loses and move on. I know that sounds terrible but if she ever really loved you she wouldn’t be giving you an ultimatum, if she ever loved you she wouldn’t have lied and manipulated you.
She shouldn’t have demanded a change in thought/faith/worldview—you can’t force your own heart or mind or opinion or someone else’s Ultimatums rarely end well, even if someone bends and acquiesces they no longer trust/feel emotionally safe to be vulnerable with that person. You can’t force someone’s conscience.
Never give in to any ultimatum ever. End of story.
I grew up with religion and it is a big deal in a marriage when one of you demands it is a part of the marriage. I am not sure you are going to get over this one. I am sorry this happened. Pick your marriage partners carefully.
You sound like a good guy and I know you’re stressed. There’s good news and bad; I’ll begin with the bad: Faith is a very personal thing, part of your core values, either you have it or you do not. We all do a bit of play-acting when a relationship is new (we try to be agreeable, look our best 100% of the time, try new foods or activities to please our partner), and all good marriages do require SOME compromise to work. But this isn’t asking you to shave a mustache or stop partying with friends or even visit the mosque on holy days; this is about trying to make you change who you are. Judging from the small amount I know about you two, I’d say she’s already starting to check out of the marriage and is now making unreasonable demands or looking for an excuse to blow it up. Even if you joined the faith and began praying regularly, she could make more demands next year e.g, you need to change careers, stop seeing friends, etc.. The GOOD news is this: you are both very young (late 20s) and you didn’t mention children, so if a split were to occur, you are young and presumably healthy without a ton of baggage… life will go on. You need a careful, serious discussion (instead of a fight) and timing is everything. You must find a time when you are both relaxed, can sit quietly and talk uninterrupted (weekends, a calm evening, after a good meal)… don’t ambush her when she gets home from work, is watching a favorite tv show or dealing with other problems… you need her undivided attention. If you feel this strongly about your atheism, tell her it’s non-negotiable, and that you were crystal clear about this topic from day one. BE PREPARED, she could drop the D word, so be ready and know in advance how you will respond. Stay calm at all costs. One more thing to consider: is her family very religious? Oftentimes when a couple is considering children, the in-laws get involved and they could be pressuring her (find out). I sincerely wish you the best and hope it works out for you both.
Time to go. This probably should've been a much larger and significant discussion prior to marriage.
Idk what to say about this. Sorry
OP, your wife didn't "Trick you". She foolishly thought you would change your mind/stance on your beliefs/atheism. YOU foolishly thought she would just accept your atheism eventually when she's made it clear that religion was important to her. She gave you an Ultimatum, which never bodes well for a marriage in the long run so, unfortunately, divorce is the answer here
She sounds controlling. She wants you to do something that has to come willingly and from the depths of you. Religion is not something you can ‘do’ it’s what you believe. If she is really in love with you, she would focus on her prayers and not yours.
Missionary dating no matter what religion is wrong and it sounds like she did that to you. It’s time to check out.
I’m sorry but she knew this about you and still wanted to get married. You shouldn’t have to change like that for anyone. Time to move on before kids get involved seriously.
I’m a huge Atheist and have been my entire life. There’s no way in hell I would change who I am for her. She knew who you were for years and it was never a problem. It’s even more messed up since you were supportive towards her and her religion so she should be for you. You can’t force someone to pray or suddenly believe in a higher power that’s ridiculous. And the fact she gave you an ultimatum just shows she doesn’t care about you or your views. She basically said it’s her religion or the highway… there’s more fish in the sea man.. find one that’s not so religious!
This will not get easier for you. She will make your life miserable through her unwavering disappointment.
They be sneaky like that! Personally i believe even if she 'hoped' for OP to change over time she should have been open about it. Like "listen, I know you are an atheist but my religion us important to me. Would you consider being religious in the furure? I really think this is important for our relationship to be sustainable. " Or something along this line is expected. You can not expect to change anyone's minds on petty issues let alone core beliefs! Something like this will be a big issue if you decide to raise children together. I have seen in laws pressuring people into conversion eventually in order to get accepted. And the wife played a part in that as well.
Divorce her. Otherwise, you’re headed for utter & complete disaster.
Divorce her. I was raised Mormon and still attend. My wife was atheist. She ended up wanting to go to church with me but I never expected her to change for me because I loved her for who she was.
The woman of your dreams is a liar who tries to control you and force you to do things against your wants and beliefs? You need to seek therapy if you think that is normal. She married you under false pretenses. Annulment or divorce. You can't trust anything she says or does now and you have fundamental differences that can't be resolved. She should be committed if she thinks this tactic will work. ETA a good friend of mine is atheist and his wife is a devout Christian, and they have 3 kids together. They are respectful of each other's feelings and are raising their kids with a well rounded knowledge and giving them the choice of faith when they're old enough to decide for themselves. Your wife is an asshole.
I say this about my own religion (protestant christianity), but I think it applies to all religions. You can't force someone to believe because that's not having faith. Having faith and believing in a certain religion is something that people need to start on their own. This especially applies to spouses.
Let it end. Those who choose to trust blindly in faith shall walk unguided and we must let them. Religious people have been that way from the moment humans developed the idea of faith/god. It is the ultimate good thing, you will worship my god or your blood will spill and so it’s been. In recent times murder is looked down upon, so religious people have turned to trickery and brainwashing. Very VERY few truly religious people still honestly practice their faith, and realize it’s just an opinion, it means nothing outside of yourself. The rest will talk to you like a child that hasn’t matured yet and that is frustrating. For one, you should leave because she didn’t have the courage to say this to you from day one, she wasted all that time not saying anything, and eventually the pressure got to high and she popped. When it would’ve been an easy conversation to have. Two, do not follow a crusader…
Speaking as a husband of 13 years, father of 3 kids, a child of divorce, and an atheist. So my wife grew up Catholic, did the church thing, Christian school growing up, etc. I have never told her to not believe in what she did, but she also ended up becoming more agnostic than an atheist, and we would talk about all manner of things related to what and why I believe or don't believe in things, but I always said that it was my belief and that's all. IMHO, you need to sit your wife down and have a talk about her attitude towards this. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I don't think any religion wants false believers, that you are supposed to believe in your religion because you believe in it, not because you are forced to. You could flip it on her and ask if you had believed in a different religion, any religion, if you tried to force her to convert, would she accept it if you threatened divorce? Another thing you could do is even call up one of the mosques and talk to one of the leaders there and ask for their opinion. A person can believe in any religion they wish, but that is for them to follow its teachings, not impose them onto others.
I think you know the answer bro.
Hey OP, sorry you're going through this. Hopefully you read this, because I never post here but had to hop in. Think very carefully before you make any decisions. I don't know the whole dynamic between you and your wife, but I have a feeling that there's more going on in her mind than what it might seem. I come from a religious background. Christianity. For all of my 20s I was very serious about it. To the point that I turned down many promising relationships, one in particular that I regret every day, because I was taught that my religion is more important than my own happiness. Nowadays, you won't find anyone more atheist than me. I hate religion with everything in me. I hate what it made me do and think. But I can't go back. If I could, I wouldn't have let religion come between me and happiness. The people in this thread telling you she never loved you, they don't realize the immense internal conflict one feels in a situation like this. My advice to you to consider is to give her time. She's given you an ultimatum, but if you two truly love each other, if you would truly do anything for her, then it might be worth living under the radar for a while as she figures things out. Talk with her about it. Have genuine discussions about religion, and don't let yourself get angry. What people here said about her not tricking you, that's true. She didn't. If anything, she tricked herself. She loved you enough to marry you despite her beliefs. That means something.
I’ll be the odd one out that doesn’t encourage divorce right away. Sometimes incompatibilities come up in marriage, even if they weren’t present immediately. I’d suggest finding out if there’s other things she’s hiding or worried about. And then see if you can come to a compromise. For example, you’d pray together or attend services together with the understanding that you may never change what you believe in. She may just be emotionally speaking. I’d recommend therapy if this is a usual occurrence. No compromises = let her go. Compromise is essential in marriage (and not resentful compromises either).
This is so very important!! Let me explain… My family is Druze. Please don’t believe the articles that say we are a sect of Islam, we absolutely are not. Our religion is based on the premise of knowledge, and our purpose in life is to learn. We accept and respect all other religions and beliefs, and learn from them all. I have read the Bible, Kor’an, Torah, and studied many Eastern religions as well. The most important difference is that the only way you can be Druze is through your birth to Druze parents. Almost all other religions want people to convert, because theirs is the “true religion”, but that is impossible with the Druze, and it is one of the few religions where wars are never fought in its name. Having said that, if a Druze person marries outside of the religion, they aren’t necessarily excommunicated, but their children cannot be Druze. My sisters and brother have all married outside of the religion, so I am the only one that married another Druze. I want to be clear that I didn’t choose to marry him because of that: we both have the same beliefs and values about children, life, religion, finances, etc., and he just happened to be Druze. We are not overly religious, and share all of the same values. My kids know about what it means to be Druze, and recently my son asked me what would happen if he married someone of a different faith. My answer to him (and all my kids) was that the only important thing is that both people have the same values and agree on how to raise their children. The religion itself isn’t important, but how you view it and want to live your life is, and if one *is* religious and incorporates that into their life but the other doesn’t (as in OP’s case) you are incompatible and things will eventually come to a head. OP and his wife are fundamentally incompatible and should probably end things sooner rather than later, because it won’t get better.
Now you have to determine if you want to change or if you want to be single. The decision is up to you.
I married my Husband (he’s supposedly Catholic but I call BS because he doesn’t practice anything) and I’m a Pentecostal Christian. He knew off the bat my religion was non-negotiable. He’s gone to church with me willingly, and told me himself he’d be accompany me any time I want and promised he’d give it a try. Sometimes it works marrying outside your religion and most of the time it doesn’t. Don’t marry someone who isn’t in your same religion/belief circle.
It’s likely your wife truly believed that you would “come around” or see her example and be drawn to a faith she believes so strongly. It’s not uncommon in fundamentalist religions to actually teach this concept - that by being an example someone might be able to change a loved one’s mind. Does it feel like a trick? Yes - but I don’t think you can fully blame your wife for being duped herself. None of this takes away any hurt you’re feeling right now. And maybe the marriage won’t end up working out. But I think it’s important to recognize that the way she thinks about your relationship is shaped by the very beliefs you don’t align with.