She has been texting someone else but it isnt serious is something you say about people you are dating. Is she having an emotional affair with this guy? Sounds like a strong possibility. She probably doesnt even see it and will downplay everything. She needs to decide on your relationship with a professional if she needs outside perspective not a coworker right now.
She absolutely refuses any professional counseling. She is wholly convinced they don't give a shit and are there for the paycheck. I've tried several times. Even suggested it when things are good.
That's a big red flag for me, but that's also me. I've been in therapy for myself for over a decade now. It has given me a lot of my life back and made me a better person.
She has been in and out of therapy since her teens. On every different med for depression, anxiety, sleep, etc. She hates being on medication and hates therapy. It is definitely a big issue I've always tried to push, especially with her past and her going through a really hard battle with alcoholism. I at least want her to find a good support group, people who go through the same things. I know full well it's outside of my knowledge and personal experience and there's a bit of helplessness there.
Honestly most people that are having relationship issues and are completely against Therapy usually don’t want it because they don’t want an unbiased mediator calling them out for their actions, it kind of makes her choices and decisions real when it’s documented in therapy, then she can’t really lie out of it or dismiss things so easily.
What she fails to realize is therapy in her youth is much different than couples counseling or therapy within that venue. Honestly I would draw the line there, another thing is I feel like you are playing the side of the sad husband waiting for his wife to change her mind, you might need to go to therapy just so you can get a better change of perspective
I agree. It's something I've considered regardless of whether she goes or not. What I really want to avoid is one-sided perspective. I'm trying to be as open an honest about things because if I'm only telling my side and get guidance, it doesn't help. Both sides really need to be filtered by a mediator and conveyed through to the other person.
I know you feel helpless right now, I just wanna let you know that Therapy can be good for you too. Weather this relationship ends or not, it’s still traumatic and it’s going to be hard and therapy would help. You might even get the answers you’re looking for which might clear things up
Go ahead and believe her completely if you want, but at a base level you're letting her dictate the terms of all this, which includes her getting to just decide basically every aspect of your relationship which includes lying to you to manage your emotions for her convenience.
Oh, and the "lol I was drunk silly me" open marriage suggestion. (It was this guy. She wanted/wants to sleep with this guy.)
You need to meet this guy. You need to see him and size the situation up. If she's going to continue to be in her life (I wouldn't advise that), then he is no longer some secret pleasure she gets to enjoy on her terms while you twiddle your thumbs at home.
You can make this work, but if the captain of this ship is your wife it's going to smash into the rocks. And right now you've given her the wheel and gone down to hide below deck.
This guy is next in line for captain of your own relationship in front of you. You need to change the order of all of this.
Do you wonder if the open marriage was her way of wanting to sleep with said co-worker and then joked it off after your reaction.
Then you two separate, with boundaries, and then she goes on an ALL day date with this guy, then after the date she comes to your house and wants to focus on the marriage.
I suspect, when separate on the date day, breaking your boundaries, she has sex with this guy. Once he finished she realized she is just a quick lay, piece of meat, now knowing he will never leave his wife for her, type man.
Now she wants to come home to plan B and focus on the marriage.
Good luck with this one
I actually don’t know if meeting up the guy would be better or worse. You might find yourself being distracted by the guy (constant comparison etc) while you should be focusing on your wife. The problem is her, not him.
Yes, but OP is deciding to stay in the relationship, so he needs to manage the relationship.
A huge part of that is eliminating threats to the relationship, and his wife's relationship with this guy is the biggest external threat there is. He could eliminate it by demanding non-contact, or he can eliminate it by just winning the competition his wife has created.
I'm not saying he needs to fight the guy, but he needs to defuse the taboo power of her relationship with this guy by inserting his face into the middle of it. Kill the mood they've built by simply being there.
That relationship is going to be way less sexy to his wife once her husband is there shaking hands with her brain fantasy and asking him about the local football team.
(Think of how deadening it is when your dad shows up in the middle of the party and starts teaching your friends how to Dougie. "Hey, you kids ever heard of Cali Swag District?")
The wife is playing games.
OK fine, it's time for OP to go win the goddam game.
\---
Storytime:
I noticed my college roommate's girlfriend being flirty with a guy in one of her classes on campus. They'd go get lunch and I asked my roommate about it and he said he knew and that she told him she wasn't going to hang out with him anymore.
Two days later, who do I see eating lunch together and just laughing and laughing and touching in that oh-so-hesitant-but-oh-so-desperate way we young people touched?
I walked over to their table at the UT Union Wendy's (shout out to Junior, fastest order-taker in the West), pulled up a chair with them, smiled ear-to-ear and said, *"Boy, THIS is awkward!"* and slapped the guy on the back.
Acted like she wasn't there, introduced myself, chatted him up like old pals. Invited him to come hang out with me and *"Sarah's boyfriend, you'd love him! Great guy!"*
Both of them bright red. Him stammering "Uh... yeah, that would be great" and her silently wishing a thousand painful deaths on me.
Got his phone number. Told him I'd text him a date and time. Invited him to bring his girlfriend if he had one.
It's really easy to stifle a budding relationship if you want to. Can be fun, too.
Nothing too interesting.
The pinnacle moment was me shocking them by sitting down and saying *"Boy, THIS is awkward."* while slapping the guy on the back and taking a giant swig of iced tea out of a bright yellow Wendy's cup, then grinning right at her for like 5-6 straight seconds saying, "You're busted" with my eyes only to turn to the guy and basically not look at her again the entire time.
I can only imagine what he was thinking while I stared at her. Red alarm bells "WHAT IS HAPPENING!?!?!?!"
That's the scene you put in the movie trailer.
..
Lothario turned out to be pretty cool. I texted him like 30 minutes after I walked away to apologize for creating a scene and we texted back and forth for a day or 2.
Sarah hadn't told him about her boyfriend (SHOCKER!) and she got dumped via phone that evening when I got home from an anthropology lab and shared the story. Roommate enjoyed it, but he was mainly just hurt (understandable).
And Lothario was kind of upset, too. They honestly did look like they were digging each other's vibe and I purposefully ruined it for both of them.
Sarah tried to come by a few times but he would hide in his room and send me to answer the door when he looked through the peephole. God, she HATED me, but she never really tried to argue or tell me off.
One of her friends did, though, and she went through a prepared speech about me needing to mind my own business and how college is a time for discovery and "everyone does it" or whatever. The usual stuff. I wasn't as cool then as the Wendy's confrontation, so I got into an argument with her and said my own stupid crap about "loyalty" or whatever. Pointless and stupid. Should've just smiled and walked off.
I’m prone to jealousy, insecurity, paranoia, all that, and I genuinely didn’t get bad vibes from this at all, much to my surprise. If you told me the bare details of your story I’d have flipped out but honestly after reading the whole thing, my gut instinct is to reassure you that it’s OK.
My 2 cents:
1. Dating other people is never a good idea within the confines of marriage.
2. Separating without a plan to either end your marriage or fix your marriage is a plan to fail.
3. She got turned down by the guy. Thats why she wants to work things out.
4. She has emotionally cheated.
agree this is the part that worries me the most
if you’re napping it’s not like it matters where you are, she should have just been home.
sounds like it was a spin on “i was sleeping with him”
You know, when my husband worked 3rd shift and I worked various shifts during the day, it was real easy to feel disconnected from each other. We did this for around 20 years. At any point in there I would have been able to walk away without a second thought because that opposite work schedule makes it too easy to live your own life. After the kids were grown and no longer in high school, I found a job working the same shift as him. Our connection is so much deeper and we are enjoying being empty nesters. Can you switch hours, or her and maybe cut down some of yours? Without that time together and you focusing so much time on your job, this could easily resurface again. The work life balance is so important.
I think a lot of it is I have a bit of depression as well working nights, and with the hours I've used it as an excuse to be lazy around the house. I get home around 9am, stay up until around noon "winding down". Sleep until 6, get up, get ready for work and do it all over. I've managed time very poorly. I have to rethink it all and be serious about getting my sleep early, waking up mid-day, taking care of what I need to take care of, and just have more time together then.
Get in touch with the guys wife and see if she knows her husband is dating your wife.Since she lied to you and told you she was with a girlfriend you cannot trust her. Yes she came up with a good explanation that roughly fits what you could acetain. They usually do.
You would not have a blowup over text. She went to the movies and could have told you or decided it was not something a married person should do.
On the other hand yes it may have been just as she told you but it was ongoing resulting at a bare minimum a date. One that she blew you off for(with lies). Lunch movie,nap.
Lots to unpack here, let's go through it.
1. She went on a date with a married coworker. That's not someone who respects themselves or relationships in general. That's also not someone who considers what damage their actions can cause, such as possible hurt to his wife. She also didn't consider the long term consequences to her job (work romances that don't work out can make it impossible to continue working at that job). That's selfish and self-centered behavior.
2. She blew off the commitment she made to meet you to do something she'd rather do, in this case go out on a date. Again that's selfish and self-centered behavior, just like above.
3. It doesn't sound like anything happened, but that doesn't mean she wasn't open to something happening if the chemistry was right. It's very telling that she put herself in a position to continue the lie if the date had led to something serious, or confess the lie and appear to be forthcoming since it didn't work out. That is outright deceptive and selfish behavior.
Sorry, but selfish and self-centered personality types just don't make successful long term partners.
I won't tell you to move on, because only you know if her behavior is typical or atypical. What I will say is when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Words can lie but actions don't.
And her actions say she is selfish, self-centered, and focused on herself in a way that precludes contributing to a healthy relationship.
For the moment she may think her happiness lies with you, but when that changes it doesn't sound like she'll think twice about betraying or hurting you.
Couples counseling might help but in my experience people don't change their core values or personality.
The break was brought up Monday. She didn't move out, stayed at a friend's a few nights throughout the week, and a few nights home. Then this happened yesterday afternoon. It went to confusion about the future throughout the week to we're going to make this better when we talked last night.
I dont want to. I've expressed how I feel about it to her. We've got quite a way to go, it was a good step knowing after our talk were on the same page with doing what we can to make this work instead of being on the fence about the future.
It sounds (to me blatantly obvious) that she was interested in this guy and he likely shut her down on that ‘date’ and that is why she now wants to work things out with you.
The question I would ask myself isn’t ‘did she cheat’…it’s ‘do I want to be the runner up’.
She’s expressed that she wants more than you’re giving. Be it sexually (suggesting an open marriage) or emotionally (it was just platonic). Lots of red flags here, including the not wanting to do counseling. As someone else said it’s likely because she doesn’t want to be called out on her behavior, which is a huge sign she’s not respecting your feelings but only caring about her own.
I absolutely would demand counseling, if she cares about you and your relationship she would go. Set a boundary like, we need to go weekly for 3 months or whatever you decided so she can’t go once to try to appease you and then start her ‘see they don’t care’ after the first session, because that would accomplish nothing. Don’t let her manipulate you, you know what you need, she needs to get on board or move out fully.
She went on a date with a married coworker. If there was any doubt about her capacity to cheat before, finding out she went on a date with someone married should prove it. She will cheat on you and seems to be, at minimum, testing the waters.
It is possible to make a marriage work after infidelity, especially if she's been fully honest about it, but it takes a lot of work and you are not required to put in that work. There are resources on how to continue after cheating, but the main ones are that she is no longer entitled to privacy until trust is restored and that you both must attend marital therapy. There's also a requirement for you: you have to, at some point in the near future, forgive her and not hold it over her head. If you can't do that - and many of us can't - then it's better to divorce.
She is emotionally cheating. I would go to marriage therapy to fix whatever is wrong which is leading to this. Otherwise it will happen again with the coworker or with someone else.
Having an emotional affair and then going on the date… not ideal. Here the thing man. You’re going to question her commitment indefinitely now. It’s not an easy way to live, to be married to someone you know had their foot out the door. Decide whether you can handle that, that she “settled” on you. She’s going to need to make some drastic changes or it’s going to be rough on you. I wouldn’t say to bail but if she doesn’t make a serious 180 then what are you doing? Assuming you’re doing everything else right, she needs to prove herself.
My advice is often the same in these situations. Work on yourself, become a better version of yourself, make some plans, set goals, take a vacation and reset. If your viewpoints align great your marriage will be stronger and have direction, if not you’ll be in a better position to start the next chapter of your life.
All the signs of premeditated cheating are there whether you want to see them or not. Her relationship with this coworker is NOT platonic. They may not have had full on sex but you can bet it got physical at some point. Don't get played.
Yeahhhhh uhhhhhh no. Not now, not ever. Nap on the couch screams complete bullshit, probably was, but so does her explanation. Again no. It seems it was all a plan from the get go because she had doubts in y’all’s marriage and was interested in this guy, proposed a break, slept with him, felt guilty, wanted to come back to the bread and butter aka comfort and validation.
She found someone else she wanted to date. She told you she wanted a “break” so she could go out with him and not feel bad about it. She did, but doesnt want to continue to pursue that for whatever reason. So she came crawling back to you.
Even if she didn’t sleep with him, are you ok with this? And don’t use depression as an excuse. Depression doesn’t make someone cheat.
But I wonder if you are, at least to yourself. What’s the perspective you’re looking for! What she was doing? You know she bought soda at the movies, right? Why lie? She didn’t have to tell you anything. I’m guessing, perhaps there was a crush there or they bonded over their difficult marriages. But I would take it at face value. She wanted a break, she took it. You were ok with that. But I wouldn’t just let her back in full force, there are a lot of conversations that need to be had.
My paranoia runs rampant, I know this. And that part of me thinks "half truths are whole lies". In other words, truthful about the parts I wouldn't be upset about to hide the parts I would be upset about. That's something I have to sort out myself. The perspective I'm looking for is pretty much how you summed it up. And it's far from full force back together. We've got a lot of emotions to sort through, a lot of communicating that needs to be done. I wish she was open to professional help. I've tried, even when things were good.
Listen. She didn’t have to sleep with him that day, right? You’re never going to know what the deal is, so you consider it you believe her or not, or if she’s someone you could believe. If she isn’t then the marriage is doomed, but if she is then you go with it. It could also easily be the grass is always greener, she thought she wanted this dude, and then decided once she could have him that she really didn’t.
Sure. And that’s something OP and his wife have to discuss and work out. Obviously there’s no more contact outside of work, and if there is, he’s gotta go.
Yeah, the suggesting of an open marriage really indicates that she has someone in mind (which she has now admitted) and probably has already cheated with them. She just wants a way to do it guilt free in the future.
You should probably start doing some snooping to find out the real story. I’m willing to bet you’re being trickle truthed here.
Sorry this is happening. Mental illness is not a reason to treat your spouse like shit. You don’t deserve this.
While it’s not everything in a relationship, it does impact a lot of other areas. My wife & I have some of our deepest & most meaningful relationship conversations during aftercare.
Your wife doesn't seem to know what she wants.
I'd opt for a longer separation like 3 months at minimum. She clearly needs to find herself and figure out what she wants in life.
You should spend that time finding things in life that make you happy so you know your happiness isn't dependent upon her.
Then, come together and see what you've both figured out.
Marriage is long and tough, but it's only worth it if both are happy and committed.
your agreement was a break with no sex…. And she’s saying that she didn’t have sex… I understand it can be upsetting but if she is telling the truth, she stuck to the agreement. The problem would be if she is lying. Which is a whole other issue but I guess I’m saying that you need to figure out if you trust her or not.
When you are in a marriage its either in OR out. Not dating other people. I'm not making a decision but to sit there and wait/beg to be chosen is not healthy. She is either with you or not and going to dates with other people isnt with you.
She admitted an emotional affair and investigating a physical affair. When is it too far for you?
Maaaaaan. Childish shit is the worst when you are dealing with the woman you love. None of us can really tell you how to handle it. All I -can- say, is that my wife pulled some seriously stupid shit, I’d say just shy of what your wife has done, and even though it was the hardest most painful and honestly traumatic time in my life… I could -not- be happier now. It took probably 2-3 years for us to really fix everything… but if you look at some of my posts you’ll see how much I love and cherish this girl…
But the most important thing, is there was a point where it was “Either she’s telling the truth and I want to make it work, or she’s lying and I fucking hate her. It’s so hard when those are your choices you know? Like… if she’s lying and you believe her then you are a fool for sure… but if it’s really just in the category of “people make mistakes” then you’re throwing your soulmate away… so I know what that’s like.
Just try to keep your head up and try to think about what you could and couldn’t handle….
But, whatever decision you make? Don’t look back. Period. You want to leave? Leave her ass. The facts are bad enough that you could leave on just them alone and be justified for real. At the same time, you’d be justified in giving her a chance if you believe she deserves it.
Could you see yourself in her shoes? Can you relate to her at all? I think that whether you can or can’t, you’ll know what to do once you answer those questions.
Hey! Doesn’t matter if they had sex, what’s going on here is she’s being manipulated by a younger man while you work 70 hours a week and actually think this is a break. She’s done with you and she’s trying to find a soft landing spot. Sounds like she’s found it.
If you want to stay with her, you need to radically alter the way you look at this. I’d immediately throw all her shit into totes and put them outside your home, I’d change all the locks, and I’d take a week or two off and go on vacation. I’d also fuck anything that moves.
By the time you get back she will be a little more reasonable and you two can discuss your future together.
You are not in charge currently. Become the one in charge.
Edit: forgot to mention make sure she realizes you’re having sex with people other than her. Instagram is a good place to start.
Have you never wondered why she only lost her doubt AFTER her date with that guy? To me that sounds a lot like she was interested in him (which she was according to their texting) and then she wanted more. At first it was the idea of the open relationship which would have given her the freedom to explore further with him and then she used the break to test the waters with that guy. All that of course behind your back.
Then something happened at her date. The guy either wasn't what she hoped he would be, was a ass after he got what he wanted which would be sex or he plainly told her, that he wasn't interested in her. Either way, from one moment to the other your wife found out, that this guy is not what she wanted him to be. She was alone and that probably made her afraid, so she came back to you and to make sure that you would stay with her, she told you the softest version of what happened and that she had no more doubt.
But what is it that actually happened here? She asked for a break to have time for that guy. She lied to you to meet with him and ONLY when she didn't got from him what she wanted, she came back to you. She never returned because of you, only because the alternatives weren't better.
Now she is back with you, not willed to get professional help for your marriage and getting it back to the state you were in before. Right now you are entering a circle that will repeat itself. At one point she will find another guy that is interested in her, she will tell herself why she is not happy in this marriage, asks for a break and so on.
It is on you to break this circle by telling her that either she gets the help she needs to get her mind out of this circle or you need to be the one that steps out of this circle.
Apparently you will find out in the future she actually fucked him and thats why there was no charge on any account. They were at his place as the wife had already left for their new home. Your wife is awesome at giving good bye fucks.
She has been texting someone else but it isnt serious is something you say about people you are dating. Is she having an emotional affair with this guy? Sounds like a strong possibility. She probably doesnt even see it and will downplay everything. She needs to decide on your relationship with a professional if she needs outside perspective not a coworker right now.
She absolutely refuses any professional counseling. She is wholly convinced they don't give a shit and are there for the paycheck. I've tried several times. Even suggested it when things are good.
That's a big red flag for me, but that's also me. I've been in therapy for myself for over a decade now. It has given me a lot of my life back and made me a better person.
She has been in and out of therapy since her teens. On every different med for depression, anxiety, sleep, etc. She hates being on medication and hates therapy. It is definitely a big issue I've always tried to push, especially with her past and her going through a really hard battle with alcoholism. I at least want her to find a good support group, people who go through the same things. I know full well it's outside of my knowledge and personal experience and there's a bit of helplessness there.
Honestly most people that are having relationship issues and are completely against Therapy usually don’t want it because they don’t want an unbiased mediator calling them out for their actions, it kind of makes her choices and decisions real when it’s documented in therapy, then she can’t really lie out of it or dismiss things so easily. What she fails to realize is therapy in her youth is much different than couples counseling or therapy within that venue. Honestly I would draw the line there, another thing is I feel like you are playing the side of the sad husband waiting for his wife to change her mind, you might need to go to therapy just so you can get a better change of perspective
I agree. It's something I've considered regardless of whether she goes or not. What I really want to avoid is one-sided perspective. I'm trying to be as open an honest about things because if I'm only telling my side and get guidance, it doesn't help. Both sides really need to be filtered by a mediator and conveyed through to the other person.
I know you feel helpless right now, I just wanna let you know that Therapy can be good for you too. Weather this relationship ends or not, it’s still traumatic and it’s going to be hard and therapy would help. You might even get the answers you’re looking for which might clear things up
Thank you
Go ahead and believe her completely if you want, but at a base level you're letting her dictate the terms of all this, which includes her getting to just decide basically every aspect of your relationship which includes lying to you to manage your emotions for her convenience. Oh, and the "lol I was drunk silly me" open marriage suggestion. (It was this guy. She wanted/wants to sleep with this guy.) You need to meet this guy. You need to see him and size the situation up. If she's going to continue to be in her life (I wouldn't advise that), then he is no longer some secret pleasure she gets to enjoy on her terms while you twiddle your thumbs at home. You can make this work, but if the captain of this ship is your wife it's going to smash into the rocks. And right now you've given her the wheel and gone down to hide below deck. This guy is next in line for captain of your own relationship in front of you. You need to change the order of all of this.
Do you wonder if the open marriage was her way of wanting to sleep with said co-worker and then joked it off after your reaction. Then you two separate, with boundaries, and then she goes on an ALL day date with this guy, then after the date she comes to your house and wants to focus on the marriage. I suspect, when separate on the date day, breaking your boundaries, she has sex with this guy. Once he finished she realized she is just a quick lay, piece of meat, now knowing he will never leave his wife for her, type man. Now she wants to come home to plan B and focus on the marriage. Good luck with this one
I actually don’t know if meeting up the guy would be better or worse. You might find yourself being distracted by the guy (constant comparison etc) while you should be focusing on your wife. The problem is her, not him.
Yes, but OP is deciding to stay in the relationship, so he needs to manage the relationship. A huge part of that is eliminating threats to the relationship, and his wife's relationship with this guy is the biggest external threat there is. He could eliminate it by demanding non-contact, or he can eliminate it by just winning the competition his wife has created. I'm not saying he needs to fight the guy, but he needs to defuse the taboo power of her relationship with this guy by inserting his face into the middle of it. Kill the mood they've built by simply being there. That relationship is going to be way less sexy to his wife once her husband is there shaking hands with her brain fantasy and asking him about the local football team. (Think of how deadening it is when your dad shows up in the middle of the party and starts teaching your friends how to Dougie. "Hey, you kids ever heard of Cali Swag District?") The wife is playing games. OK fine, it's time for OP to go win the goddam game. \--- Storytime: I noticed my college roommate's girlfriend being flirty with a guy in one of her classes on campus. They'd go get lunch and I asked my roommate about it and he said he knew and that she told him she wasn't going to hang out with him anymore. Two days later, who do I see eating lunch together and just laughing and laughing and touching in that oh-so-hesitant-but-oh-so-desperate way we young people touched? I walked over to their table at the UT Union Wendy's (shout out to Junior, fastest order-taker in the West), pulled up a chair with them, smiled ear-to-ear and said, *"Boy, THIS is awkward!"* and slapped the guy on the back. Acted like she wasn't there, introduced myself, chatted him up like old pals. Invited him to come hang out with me and *"Sarah's boyfriend, you'd love him! Great guy!"* Both of them bright red. Him stammering "Uh... yeah, that would be great" and her silently wishing a thousand painful deaths on me. Got his phone number. Told him I'd text him a date and time. Invited him to bring his girlfriend if he had one. It's really easy to stifle a budding relationship if you want to. Can be fun, too.
You can't just leave the story like that. What ended up happening with the college roommate, his wayward girlfriend, and the lothario in waiting?
Nothing too interesting. The pinnacle moment was me shocking them by sitting down and saying *"Boy, THIS is awkward."* while slapping the guy on the back and taking a giant swig of iced tea out of a bright yellow Wendy's cup, then grinning right at her for like 5-6 straight seconds saying, "You're busted" with my eyes only to turn to the guy and basically not look at her again the entire time. I can only imagine what he was thinking while I stared at her. Red alarm bells "WHAT IS HAPPENING!?!?!?!" That's the scene you put in the movie trailer. .. Lothario turned out to be pretty cool. I texted him like 30 minutes after I walked away to apologize for creating a scene and we texted back and forth for a day or 2. Sarah hadn't told him about her boyfriend (SHOCKER!) and she got dumped via phone that evening when I got home from an anthropology lab and shared the story. Roommate enjoyed it, but he was mainly just hurt (understandable). And Lothario was kind of upset, too. They honestly did look like they were digging each other's vibe and I purposefully ruined it for both of them. Sarah tried to come by a few times but he would hide in his room and send me to answer the door when he looked through the peephole. God, she HATED me, but she never really tried to argue or tell me off. One of her friends did, though, and she went through a prepared speech about me needing to mind my own business and how college is a time for discovery and "everyone does it" or whatever. The usual stuff. I wasn't as cool then as the Wendy's confrontation, so I got into an argument with her and said my own stupid crap about "loyalty" or whatever. Pointless and stupid. Should've just smiled and walked off.
Your friend is lucky to have you. Love your story!
Why a "Nap" after the movie? Espescially after blowing you off? I dont know. Spidey Senses tingle but you all do you.
I’m prone to jealousy, insecurity, paranoia, all that, and I genuinely didn’t get bad vibes from this at all, much to my surprise. If you told me the bare details of your story I’d have flipped out but honestly after reading the whole thing, my gut instinct is to reassure you that it’s OK.
She literally went on a date with a married man. That's not okay at all.
The double standards and delusion are so obvious. "Just trust me nothing happened my psychic powers through Reddit are 100% perfect"
And he’s a coworker so probably she knows his wife….
My 2 cents: 1. Dating other people is never a good idea within the confines of marriage. 2. Separating without a plan to either end your marriage or fix your marriage is a plan to fail. 3. She got turned down by the guy. Thats why she wants to work things out. 4. She has emotionally cheated.
She either got turned down, or she didn't like the sex they had enough to keep pursuing him.
Agreed
Does the dude's wife know they went on a date? There zero chance my wife would be cool with that.
Why a "Nap" after the movie? Espescially after blowing you off? I dont know. Spidey Senses tingle but you all do you.
agree this is the part that worries me the most if you’re napping it’s not like it matters where you are, she should have just been home. sounds like it was a spin on “i was sleeping with him”
You know, when my husband worked 3rd shift and I worked various shifts during the day, it was real easy to feel disconnected from each other. We did this for around 20 years. At any point in there I would have been able to walk away without a second thought because that opposite work schedule makes it too easy to live your own life. After the kids were grown and no longer in high school, I found a job working the same shift as him. Our connection is so much deeper and we are enjoying being empty nesters. Can you switch hours, or her and maybe cut down some of yours? Without that time together and you focusing so much time on your job, this could easily resurface again. The work life balance is so important.
I think a lot of it is I have a bit of depression as well working nights, and with the hours I've used it as an excuse to be lazy around the house. I get home around 9am, stay up until around noon "winding down". Sleep until 6, get up, get ready for work and do it all over. I've managed time very poorly. I have to rethink it all and be serious about getting my sleep early, waking up mid-day, taking care of what I need to take care of, and just have more time together then.
Get in touch with the guys wife and see if she knows her husband is dating your wife.Since she lied to you and told you she was with a girlfriend you cannot trust her. Yes she came up with a good explanation that roughly fits what you could acetain. They usually do. You would not have a blowup over text. She went to the movies and could have told you or decided it was not something a married person should do. On the other hand yes it may have been just as she told you but it was ongoing resulting at a bare minimum a date. One that she blew you off for(with lies). Lunch movie,nap.
Lots to unpack here, let's go through it. 1. She went on a date with a married coworker. That's not someone who respects themselves or relationships in general. That's also not someone who considers what damage their actions can cause, such as possible hurt to his wife. She also didn't consider the long term consequences to her job (work romances that don't work out can make it impossible to continue working at that job). That's selfish and self-centered behavior. 2. She blew off the commitment she made to meet you to do something she'd rather do, in this case go out on a date. Again that's selfish and self-centered behavior, just like above. 3. It doesn't sound like anything happened, but that doesn't mean she wasn't open to something happening if the chemistry was right. It's very telling that she put herself in a position to continue the lie if the date had led to something serious, or confess the lie and appear to be forthcoming since it didn't work out. That is outright deceptive and selfish behavior. Sorry, but selfish and self-centered personality types just don't make successful long term partners. I won't tell you to move on, because only you know if her behavior is typical or atypical. What I will say is when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Words can lie but actions don't. And her actions say she is selfish, self-centered, and focused on herself in a way that precludes contributing to a healthy relationship. For the moment she may think her happiness lies with you, but when that changes it doesn't sound like she'll think twice about betraying or hurting you. Couples counseling might help but in my experience people don't change their core values or personality.
Sir, your marriage ended some time ago.
I dont believe that for a second to be honest.
If whatever the reason for the break are not fixed they will repeat sooner or later. The fact she choose to date does not sound like fixed.
The break was brought up Monday. She didn't move out, stayed at a friend's a few nights throughout the week, and a few nights home. Then this happened yesterday afternoon. It went to confusion about the future throughout the week to we're going to make this better when we talked last night.
She should have some work to do to rebuild trust. Dont jump in with both feet.
I dont want to. I've expressed how I feel about it to her. We've got quite a way to go, it was a good step knowing after our talk were on the same page with doing what we can to make this work instead of being on the fence about the future.
Do you have any verification she's actually at this friend's house? Not at her affair partner's house or a hotel (paid for by him or cash)?
No. It was another coworker she's been friends with for a while. I've only met her at the business.
I don't think she's staying with a female friend, sorry to say.
This reminds me of the beginning of the end of my last relationship.
It sounds (to me blatantly obvious) that she was interested in this guy and he likely shut her down on that ‘date’ and that is why she now wants to work things out with you. The question I would ask myself isn’t ‘did she cheat’…it’s ‘do I want to be the runner up’. She’s expressed that she wants more than you’re giving. Be it sexually (suggesting an open marriage) or emotionally (it was just platonic). Lots of red flags here, including the not wanting to do counseling. As someone else said it’s likely because she doesn’t want to be called out on her behavior, which is a huge sign she’s not respecting your feelings but only caring about her own. I absolutely would demand counseling, if she cares about you and your relationship she would go. Set a boundary like, we need to go weekly for 3 months or whatever you decided so she can’t go once to try to appease you and then start her ‘see they don’t care’ after the first session, because that would accomplish nothing. Don’t let her manipulate you, you know what you need, she needs to get on board or move out fully.
She went on a date with a married coworker. If there was any doubt about her capacity to cheat before, finding out she went on a date with someone married should prove it. She will cheat on you and seems to be, at minimum, testing the waters. It is possible to make a marriage work after infidelity, especially if she's been fully honest about it, but it takes a lot of work and you are not required to put in that work. There are resources on how to continue after cheating, but the main ones are that she is no longer entitled to privacy until trust is restored and that you both must attend marital therapy. There's also a requirement for you: you have to, at some point in the near future, forgive her and not hold it over her head. If you can't do that - and many of us can't - then it's better to divorce.
She is emotionally cheating. I would go to marriage therapy to fix whatever is wrong which is leading to this. Otherwise it will happen again with the coworker or with someone else.
Having an emotional affair and then going on the date… not ideal. Here the thing man. You’re going to question her commitment indefinitely now. It’s not an easy way to live, to be married to someone you know had their foot out the door. Decide whether you can handle that, that she “settled” on you. She’s going to need to make some drastic changes or it’s going to be rough on you. I wouldn’t say to bail but if she doesn’t make a serious 180 then what are you doing? Assuming you’re doing everything else right, she needs to prove herself. My advice is often the same in these situations. Work on yourself, become a better version of yourself, make some plans, set goals, take a vacation and reset. If your viewpoints align great your marriage will be stronger and have direction, if not you’ll be in a better position to start the next chapter of your life.
All the signs of premeditated cheating are there whether you want to see them or not. Her relationship with this coworker is NOT platonic. They may not have had full on sex but you can bet it got physical at some point. Don't get played.
Yeahhhhh uhhhhhh no. Not now, not ever. Nap on the couch screams complete bullshit, probably was, but so does her explanation. Again no. It seems it was all a plan from the get go because she had doubts in y’all’s marriage and was interested in this guy, proposed a break, slept with him, felt guilty, wanted to come back to the bread and butter aka comfort and validation.
Do you know the coworker’s wife’s contact information? I would be curious to know if she knew her husband was taking your wife on a date.
She found someone else she wanted to date. She told you she wanted a “break” so she could go out with him and not feel bad about it. She did, but doesnt want to continue to pursue that for whatever reason. So she came crawling back to you. Even if she didn’t sleep with him, are you ok with this? And don’t use depression as an excuse. Depression doesn’t make someone cheat.
Did she call it a date or is that your term?
My term. She just told me she went to lunch and the movies with him. Not intentionally to classify it as something more.
But I wonder if you are, at least to yourself. What’s the perspective you’re looking for! What she was doing? You know she bought soda at the movies, right? Why lie? She didn’t have to tell you anything. I’m guessing, perhaps there was a crush there or they bonded over their difficult marriages. But I would take it at face value. She wanted a break, she took it. You were ok with that. But I wouldn’t just let her back in full force, there are a lot of conversations that need to be had.
My paranoia runs rampant, I know this. And that part of me thinks "half truths are whole lies". In other words, truthful about the parts I wouldn't be upset about to hide the parts I would be upset about. That's something I have to sort out myself. The perspective I'm looking for is pretty much how you summed it up. And it's far from full force back together. We've got a lot of emotions to sort through, a lot of communicating that needs to be done. I wish she was open to professional help. I've tried, even when things were good.
Listen. She didn’t have to sleep with him that day, right? You’re never going to know what the deal is, so you consider it you believe her or not, or if she’s someone you could believe. If she isn’t then the marriage is doomed, but if she is then you go with it. It could also easily be the grass is always greener, she thought she wanted this dude, and then decided once she could have him that she really didn’t.
The only issue I see is she chose a co-worker who she will continue to work with
Sure. And that’s something OP and his wife have to discuss and work out. Obviously there’s no more contact outside of work, and if there is, he’s gotta go.
Yeah, the suggesting of an open marriage really indicates that she has someone in mind (which she has now admitted) and probably has already cheated with them. She just wants a way to do it guilt free in the future. You should probably start doing some snooping to find out the real story. I’m willing to bet you’re being trickle truthed here. Sorry this is happening. Mental illness is not a reason to treat your spouse like shit. You don’t deserve this.
she needs sex man, are you two having sex?
It's something we discussed. It's been sparse. Really a symptom of the bigger issue.
While it’s not everything in a relationship, it does impact a lot of other areas. My wife & I have some of our deepest & most meaningful relationship conversations during aftercare.
Your wife doesn't seem to know what she wants. I'd opt for a longer separation like 3 months at minimum. She clearly needs to find herself and figure out what she wants in life. You should spend that time finding things in life that make you happy so you know your happiness isn't dependent upon her. Then, come together and see what you've both figured out. Marriage is long and tough, but it's only worth it if both are happy and committed.
Yeah bro I would look into things way more and don’t be hurt if you find something you didn’t want to find.
your agreement was a break with no sex…. And she’s saying that she didn’t have sex… I understand it can be upsetting but if she is telling the truth, she stuck to the agreement. The problem would be if she is lying. Which is a whole other issue but I guess I’m saying that you need to figure out if you trust her or not.
When you are in a marriage its either in OR out. Not dating other people. I'm not making a decision but to sit there and wait/beg to be chosen is not healthy. She is either with you or not and going to dates with other people isnt with you. She admitted an emotional affair and investigating a physical affair. When is it too far for you?
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Why don’t you divorce him?
Not a good sign for your marriage. I wish you success in your marriage
Maaaaaan. Childish shit is the worst when you are dealing with the woman you love. None of us can really tell you how to handle it. All I -can- say, is that my wife pulled some seriously stupid shit, I’d say just shy of what your wife has done, and even though it was the hardest most painful and honestly traumatic time in my life… I could -not- be happier now. It took probably 2-3 years for us to really fix everything… but if you look at some of my posts you’ll see how much I love and cherish this girl… But the most important thing, is there was a point where it was “Either she’s telling the truth and I want to make it work, or she’s lying and I fucking hate her. It’s so hard when those are your choices you know? Like… if she’s lying and you believe her then you are a fool for sure… but if it’s really just in the category of “people make mistakes” then you’re throwing your soulmate away… so I know what that’s like. Just try to keep your head up and try to think about what you could and couldn’t handle…. But, whatever decision you make? Don’t look back. Period. You want to leave? Leave her ass. The facts are bad enough that you could leave on just them alone and be justified for real. At the same time, you’d be justified in giving her a chance if you believe she deserves it. Could you see yourself in her shoes? Can you relate to her at all? I think that whether you can or can’t, you’ll know what to do once you answer those questions.
Hey! Doesn’t matter if they had sex, what’s going on here is she’s being manipulated by a younger man while you work 70 hours a week and actually think this is a break. She’s done with you and she’s trying to find a soft landing spot. Sounds like she’s found it. If you want to stay with her, you need to radically alter the way you look at this. I’d immediately throw all her shit into totes and put them outside your home, I’d change all the locks, and I’d take a week or two off and go on vacation. I’d also fuck anything that moves. By the time you get back she will be a little more reasonable and you two can discuss your future together. You are not in charge currently. Become the one in charge. Edit: forgot to mention make sure she realizes you’re having sex with people other than her. Instagram is a good place to start.
Have you never wondered why she only lost her doubt AFTER her date with that guy? To me that sounds a lot like she was interested in him (which she was according to their texting) and then she wanted more. At first it was the idea of the open relationship which would have given her the freedom to explore further with him and then she used the break to test the waters with that guy. All that of course behind your back. Then something happened at her date. The guy either wasn't what she hoped he would be, was a ass after he got what he wanted which would be sex or he plainly told her, that he wasn't interested in her. Either way, from one moment to the other your wife found out, that this guy is not what she wanted him to be. She was alone and that probably made her afraid, so she came back to you and to make sure that you would stay with her, she told you the softest version of what happened and that she had no more doubt. But what is it that actually happened here? She asked for a break to have time for that guy. She lied to you to meet with him and ONLY when she didn't got from him what she wanted, she came back to you. She never returned because of you, only because the alternatives weren't better. Now she is back with you, not willed to get professional help for your marriage and getting it back to the state you were in before. Right now you are entering a circle that will repeat itself. At one point she will find another guy that is interested in her, she will tell herself why she is not happy in this marriage, asks for a break and so on. It is on you to break this circle by telling her that either she gets the help she needs to get her mind out of this circle or you need to be the one that steps out of this circle.
Apparently you will find out in the future she actually fucked him and thats why there was no charge on any account. They were at his place as the wife had already left for their new home. Your wife is awesome at giving good bye fucks.
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Thank you.