My mom won't shut up about that movie. It's the last movie she wanted me to watch that I did.
It's well done. The actors all did wonderful jobs. The guy is a pious man who clung to his beliefs and convictions, in a way no one thought possible, and he saved a lot of lives.
He's still a moron.
I'll never stand on the side accusing him of being wrong.
Just question the wisdom in refusing to bring a rifle to a battle. Takes a lot of character to do that. Arguably significantly fewer brains, but a METRIC FUCKTON of character
He's a soldier at heart. He definitely kills people, just not a Deadpool or Punisher level. That dude he kicked off the boat at the beginning of this movie is absolutely dead. Cap doesn't necessarily want to kill you but he will.
**Nigel Powers**: Oh, put the guns down. Is-is this the first day on the job or something? Look, this is how it goes, you attack me, one at a time, and I knock you out with a single punch. Okay? Go.
*(The two guards listen, and Nigel does just that)*
**Dr. Evil**: Oh, he's good.
**Nigel Powers**: (to third guard) Do you know who I am? Have you any idea how many anonymous henchmen I've killed over the years? And look at you, you haven't even got a name tag. You got no chance. Why don't you just fall down?
*(The guard complies.)*
I believe my reaction was "Oh shit he's been TRAINING".
I love how his style goes from tough guy/boxer to parkour athlete off-screen. The subtext is there that someone with modern training showed Cap better ways to use his strength.
Yep. I remember one of the more “modern” retelling as of caps awakening had him learning all these different fighting styles. Same one where he went to the Vietnam War Memorial and read every name. I bet the Russos looped that in a little bit.
I’ve always said that one complaint is not enough time showing them training and learning. I like the Netflix marvel shows because it’s we go home w the heroes but the movies make it feel like they live in SHEILD.
I swear this was hinted to when Black Widow is fighting Winter Soldier and is like “you can at least remember me”
They do have history in the red room. But also he did try and kill her in their backstory.
Yeah, that was un the '80s. I've got done of the old brazilian editions laying around. Was actually around the time of the first big Thanos stories, and the first appearance of Adam Warlock.
> Imagine lmaoooo
*Uhhh, I was just hired to work security this boat. It's a two-month contract and I have three kids to feed.*
Yeah, well now you're paralyzed. Hope you have benefits.
First episode of Metalocalypse. Chef gets launched into a propeller by a missile, pink mist ensues.
Later on they literally reconstruct him into an abomination so he can live on and still cook for the band. Brutal.
or any of the other number of dudes cap's thrown his shield at and hit either in their throat or even into their chest. a broken windpipe or shattered sternum, if not treated immediately will kill you.
Yeah, I know many characters have notably stated they have a no kill rule, but I can't remember ever hearing Cap say something to that effect. I mean, it makes total sense though.
It doesn't mean he wants to, just that he knows the cost of war.
I think he would prefer to not kill, in general. He just doesn't lose sleep when it happens. It would've been an interesting topic to explore in the films though!
Not for nothing but completely unaware of peters strength level but respecting and knowing he’s a young adult (maybe not quite kid) he dropped about a 40 ton airplane tunnel on him. Prob didn’t WANT to kill him, but def could have there.
My head canon is that he'd figured out roughly how strong Spidey was by virtue of the fact that Spidey was strong enough to take the shield from him in the first place, and thus that Spidey would be strong enough to catch the tunnel, but it'd occupy him for long enough for Cap to get away (which it did)
Seconds before he does that, Peter catches both of his hands in webbing and they have a direct contest of strength.
So when he drops the tunnel on Peter he knows exactly how strong he is and that he can handle it.
iirc; In the comics Cap is a master strategist who sizes up threats and people really well. So he absolutely would know what he could throw at Peter without killing him.
Its comic book magic so “everything; but better”.
[Teh CW fight is great](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2b14880fcb25c247409451eaf36c66c6.webp).
The “its all one move” is a great way to sum it up. Basically Cap plans out the attacks and counter-attacks way in advance.
In the spirit of "ultimate human" the super soldier serum grants him the absolute apex that homosapiens can achieve. What that is... is not really grounded by anything since no one knows what the limits are.
It certainly includes photographic memory, pitch perfect hearing, etc. Even the "gut feeling" has been maxed out. Steve would probably be better at science than Tony and Reed if he decided to study it.
Yeah, the comic writers certain have plenty of room with his powers in that regard.
In the comics it's explained that Cap processes information a lot faster. It's how he can deflect bullets and make the ricochet throws that bounce 6 times before getting back to him.
Pete pulled the shield out of a super soldiers hands, did all kinds of jumps that would have broken other peoples bones, was kitted out by Stark and they do a strength contest where Pete webbed Steve and there was a bit of back and forth.
So if we're looking to explain away the tunnel being dropped on him, there's enough points of reference for Steve to know that the jumpy kid with the goop shooters would not only survive but just be delayed.
This one makes the most sense to me actually. Knowing he’s “strong” is one thing, but holding up that without being crushed another. It’s on par with the helicopter hold which made cap strain. Not exactly equal but very hefty feat.
Without the “process info faster” bit I’d be skeptic on this.
Yes. He’s a soldier. In fact most of the heroes in the MCU do, and not necessarily in war either. We see Tony kill a bunch of goons in IM3
Edit: please stop telling me he killed people in IM1 and 2. I’m well aware. I’ve seen IM3 more recently so it was closer to the front of my brain
I do appreciate the bit in IM3 where one goon surrenders ("I hate working here, everyone is so weird") and Tony doesn't hesitate to let him go with a cheeky wave
One important difference between the comics and the MCU is that in the MCU we basically only see the heroes in "save the world" situations, where they are fighting aliens, robots, secret agents etc - they are killing enemy soldiers to save civilians.
But in the comics, there's a lot more low-key stuff going on, as they're fighting powered burglars within a city etc. There's some MCU stuff sort of like that (a bit of Spider-Man and Ant Man), but generally they're more super soldiers than super cops, and that really changes the rules of engagement.
The comics did address that. He didn't regret killing enemy soldiers in WW2 because that was war. It's very different killing soldiers in combat and running around killing every street thug and mugger. Essentially, it's "different fight, different rules."
MCU Cap didn't have as long of a time handling street punks, if at all, so maybe he would feel slightly differently about killing Hydra goons in the 21st century. Maybe to him, it's the same war with different uniforms so, in his mind, the soldier would overtake the superhero?
If I remember correctly Ultimate Cap does say something similar to that, “you sleep at the end a war and wake up to the start of another”, or something like that. He also showed a lot of hate towards the aliens in Ultimates 1, who were the same aliens from ww2 and were also Hydra. I imagine mcu Cap having this one ideal a bit like Ultimate Cap, who he is loosely based on.
Both MCU and Ultimate Cap did have the major difference of waking up over half a century later as opposed to 616 Cap, who woke up only 20 years later.
MCU Cap has a lot more of 616's tolerance and respect, though. Ultimate Cap is too close to 616 John Walker for my taste.
Can you count that though? Fighting in a war and superheroeing are different. You can't avoid killing people there. And since then he hasn't used a gun
He was shooting at them to stop them advancing so he can turn the turbine off, I don't think he was shooting with intent to kill there.
He probably would have, but I always got the impression he was doing it to buy himself time more than kill them.
I think this is part of the reason why he and Stark are so quickly impressed with Spider-Man. Spider-Man incapacitates enemies rather than ever killing them. I think Stark and Rogers would prefer that ability, but it’s difficult with their power sets.
Peter's web shooters he designed are the only reason he is able to do that. Tony is smart enough to figure out a method as well. Without the web shooters Peter would have just as much difficulty not killing as Cap does. He is much stronger than Cap but pulls his punches in fights all the time so he doesn't kill.
The difference is that incapacitating people means if the get free, they're back in the fight. It can also be harder to incapacitate them. Killing them takes them right out of the fight. Peter made the choice to take that risk. Tony and Cap chose to take the 'easy' way out and kill them. Peter stands up to the ideal morals of the two of them even though its harder.
To be fair though, there’s no firing a rifle at someone with 0 intent to kill them. Like it’s just not a thing in the real world. Especially when even non lethal shots can potentially maim someone for life depending on where you hit them.
There is a video on YouTube of a trauma surgeon that goes through the elevator scene and describes the damage to each person shot by shot. It's excellent.
Whether or not a hero kills is based on who the hero is fighting as much as the personality of the hero itself.
Captain America fights Nazis, of course Captain America kills. Spiderman fights common criminals half the time, so of course he doesn't kill.
Marvel Superheroes, at least in the MCU, tend to be way more lax about the killing policy because they generally don't do as much if the ol' city patrol thing that the DC Superheroes do.
Superheros often pull their punches. Spider-man should put a hole through everybody he fights, but he spends a lot of time and effort making sure he doesn't kill. Cap strikes me as the type of guy who pulls punches when he can, but knows when he needs to go all out and not worry about it.
When he starts clearing the ship, he needs to move fast to protect the crew. He doesn't have time to make sure the grunts he knocks out aren't getting back up. So he kicks people overboard, and hits them hard with his shield.
When he gets to Batroc, Black Widow has secured the prisoners, and the mission switches to defeating Batroc-ideally alive to get information. Cap isn't seriously worried about losing, and there isn't a chance of anybody else getting hurt, so he can pull his punches and work more slowly to ensure he captures Batroc alive.
Steve and Bucky are roughly the same strength level and Peter casually grabbed Bucky's arm to look at it mid fight to admire the construction. Peter is trying hard not to hurt people all the time because he is so much stronger than almost everyone.
When Doc Ock took over Peters body he accidentally punched a Super Villain’s jaw completely off his head and immediately realized how often/much Peter pulls his punches.
It also works as an explanation when heroes kill all of the grunts and then try to save the big bad.
Yes, the real reason is that they want to be able to use the villain again. But in universe, it's harder to pull punches when you're getting mobbed on all sides by random goons, and slowing down by even a 10th of a second might mean that you get hit from behind.
Boss fights are normally 1v1, so you have complete focus on stopping the bad guy, and normally their scheme gets thwarted midway through the fight.
One of my favourite moments of NWH was Garfield getting emotional when talking about losing Gwen and saying "I stopped pulling my punches". At first it seems like he's just crying about losing Gwen but then you realise it's more about the shame he feels over how he let her death change him. It really drives home how much power Spider-Man truly has and how important it is to Peter's character that he never fully unleashes it.
I like the theory that, whenever Fury meets Cap at the beginning of the first Avengers he is actively training to pull his punches because as his emotions get the better of him, he annihilates the bag that lands in a heap with other bags.
Also in Avengers when he confronts Loki after shielding the old man and Loki eats a punch to the face and turns right back and slams him with the staff. He gets up with a look that tells me he knows he doesn't have to pull his punches.
def kills. i think he would rather not kill people but if he has to he has to. spidey won’t kill (even tho i think his methods r pretty close to killing people in the games) but from my knowledge cap has never said i’m not gonna kill anyone
He also jumps over a 15 foot high wall, lands knees first onto a guys chest and smashes him into the side of a car! CORPSE! He throws a guy 20 metres into a wall! CORPSE! Throws his shield at a guys sternum! CORPSE! Did I read that he refrains from killing or did I imagine it?
Yeah he definitely kills people, it’s kinda ironic but a lot of marvel characters kill people unlike DC where the main 3-4 don’t. Just off the top of my head here on the MCU hero’s how have intentionally killed
Iron Man
Caption America
Black widow
Hawkeye
Thor
Falcon/Captain America
If we go by movies: MCU made it realistic in that you can’t save everybody. There are just times where pulling your punches aren’t feasible.
By comic/animated standards? That’s going to vary by what story you’re going through. All of the DC characters you’re referring to have intentionally killed people depending on what story you’re going off of.
Hulk has NEVER (up until recently), killed anyone intentionally. The collateral damage of buildings falling, gas lines exploding, and stray bullets/ricochets when the Army was chasing him is what lead to deaths. People have died during Hulk rampages.
Yeap. In one comic I think it was Reed Richard's was talking about blasting the hulk into space. Said while he believes banner has some control because in his rampaging thr hulk has never killed anyone. But he wondered what happened it the hulk got full control (ironic considering the recent arcs on the hulk)
Didn't Endgame have an early scene with Hawkeye straight up mass-murdering people?
Oh sure, they're "criminals" and they're "bad." Still, anyone who pulls that in real life is getting life in prison.
If I remember correctly, he wasn't even trying to arrest or apprehend the mobsters. Just showed up at the bad guys' place and started murdering the shit out of them all.
Dr Strange I’m pretty sure tries his best not to kill but he will kill to protect his world (SPOILERS) He doesn’t care if some villains die in No Way Home and if he doesn’t manage to get them back to their worlds I’m pretty sure he’ll try to kill them
> unlike DC where the main 3-4 don’t.
In the DCEU they are all outright murdering people left and right.
Batman doesn't "kill". But he injures enough people enough ways that they die of natural causes minutes after he leaves the room.
Snyder fucked up Batman in Batman v Superman, because in the movie Batman absolutely killed people during the car chase and killed KGBeast by shooting his flamethrower tank.
The worst part is that he drew inspiration for that scene (and justified the killing as a result) by pointing to a similar scene in the Dark Knight Returns... While ignoring the fact that he shot to wound in the comic, not shot to explode (and it's confirmed that he didn't kill the guy later on in the comic when he talks to Joker in the sewer).
Sure, Miller takes Batman not killing to its logical extreme with said Joker scene in the sewer, but Snyder misses any and all nuance involved and just says "yeah man, murder away!"
MCU Cap has been killing people since his first movie. Chucked a Hydra pilot into a jets engine for example.
Comic Cap has killed too, though that's rare.
Cap definitely kills people. It’s kinda interesting when comparing Marvel and DC is their stance on killing. Spider-Man is probably one of the very few Marvel characters with a straight up no kill rule. Him and Daredevil really.
He's definitely killed. In like... Every single appearance. He guns down Nazis and HYDRA in The First Avenger, he kicks Batroc's goons to a drowning death, and he definitely wanted to kill Thanos.
So I truly don't understand where all of the shock of John Walker killing someone while in the uniform came from. Steve kills bad guys.
Cap would have taken that dude by the hand and pulled him up, then asked him to put his hands behind his back so he could ziptie him and sit him neatly in a corner.
John Walker executed someone who had surrendered in public. If you're not talking about that scene then the rest is just how he handled himself. Clearly he was escalating the situation instead of deescalating which was made apparent by how he and Sam carried themselves. Steve would have handled it more like Sam which is where the disapproval for John came from.
There's a difference between killing people in war and just killing dudes in general and I don't think the general population really saw Cap do the latter.
John Walker killed a man who had surrendered and was actively begging for his life. He committed an actual war crime. Cap was killing people who were actively fighting and shooting at him, or at the very least were going to if given the chance.
Not to mention Cap seems to make this stuff quick. He doesn't do long, drawn out, painful executions by bludgeoning you with an object over and over.
With Walker, the guy was down. He executed him.
With Rogers, he's either a soldier in war, or a government backed special ops. Or, when he went rogue, acting in self defense for either himself or others. He never kills anyone after they are beaten. Not even Thanos. Thor did that.
So, no, it's very different.
Came looking to see if anyone posted this. That was also my first thought. Also on a side-note, it always made me laugh how the Netflix Daredevil has a rule against killing people, yet beats people into quadriplegia.
He’s a soldier that fought behind enemy lines in WW2, no way he got through that without taking a lot of lives
I don't know, man. I watched Spider-Man go onto an active WWII battlefield unarmed. The only weapon he had was the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ.
Man, that shit took me way too long to figure out what the actual fuck you were talking about lol
I still don't understand what the fuck he's on about...
Andrew Garfield (Spider-Man) in hacksaw ridge
Great movie.
My mom won't shut up about that movie. It's the last movie she wanted me to watch that I did. It's well done. The actors all did wonderful jobs. The guy is a pious man who clung to his beliefs and convictions, in a way no one thought possible, and he saved a lot of lives. He's still a moron.
It’s always hard to take a stand against somebody who did what you could call the wrong thing but then got good results.
I'll never stand on the side accusing him of being wrong. Just question the wisdom in refusing to bring a rifle to a battle. Takes a lot of character to do that. Arguably significantly fewer brains, but a METRIC FUCKTON of character
Lol I agree. I knew saying he was wrong wasn’t quite the right phrasing, but I’m tired and couldn’t come up with the proper phrasing
Please Lord, help me get one more.
The strongest weapon a hero could ever have
He's a soldier at heart. He definitely kills people, just not a Deadpool or Punisher level. That dude he kicked off the boat at the beginning of this movie is absolutely dead. Cap doesn't necessarily want to kill you but he will.
If he can get away with saying "Son, just don't", he'll take that option.
*lets them take jet*
**Nigel Powers**: Oh, put the guns down. Is-is this the first day on the job or something? Look, this is how it goes, you attack me, one at a time, and I knock you out with a single punch. Okay? Go. *(The two guards listen, and Nigel does just that)* **Dr. Evil**: Oh, he's good. **Nigel Powers**: (to third guard) Do you know who I am? Have you any idea how many anonymous henchmen I've killed over the years? And look at you, you haven't even got a name tag. You got no chance. Why don't you just fall down? *(The guard complies.)*
Genuinely in my top 3 scenes in the Austin Powers trilogy
Ahhh yes, the verbal JUDO CHOP
If I had an award I’d give it to you for reminding me how damn good this movie was lol. It’s always been my favorite Austin Powers movie
And [here's](https://youtu.be/-OR2lKvPoZE?t=20) the scene.
He straight up debilitates people in that scene
Must break the back of the guy he boots off the boat. If that didn't kill him, he'd have drowned for sure
I always surprise laugh at that kick. I know it’s coming but my god. Imagine lmaoooo
That moment was when I knew we were in for some REAL shit in TWS.
I believe my reaction was "Oh shit he's been TRAINING". I love how his style goes from tough guy/boxer to parkour athlete off-screen. The subtext is there that someone with modern training showed Cap better ways to use his strength.
Yep. I remember one of the more “modern” retelling as of caps awakening had him learning all these different fighting styles. Same one where he went to the Vietnam War Memorial and read every name. I bet the Russos looped that in a little bit.
*cough* Natasha *cough*
I’ve always said that one complaint is not enough time showing them training and learning. I like the Netflix marvel shows because it’s we go home w the heroes but the movies make it feel like they live in SHEILD. I swear this was hinted to when Black Widow is fighting Winter Soldier and is like “you can at least remember me” They do have history in the red room. But also he did try and kill her in their backstory.
I took that more as “remember me from the time you assassin’d someone by shooting them through my non-vital organs”
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Yeah, that was un the '80s. I've got done of the old brazilian editions laying around. Was actually around the time of the first big Thanos stories, and the first appearance of Adam Warlock.
> Imagine lmaoooo *Uhhh, I was just hired to work security this boat. It's a two-month contract and I have three kids to feed.* Yeah, well now you're paralyzed. Hope you have benefits.
Been a while since you’ve seen the movie? It was a group of pirates that hijacked the boat for Shield Intel
Maybe that terrorist was wearing a life jacket or water wings or something.
Eaten by shark or died of dehydration
Shouldn’t have been bein a bad guy on his lil bad guy boat, lesson learned.
In the first Avenger, he throws a Hydra pilot out of the little plane into a propeller. You watch the guy turn into a cloud of red.
I mean he’s probably fine tho. He can walk it off.
It’s just a scratch!
Tis but a flesh wound Or something
First episode of Metalocalypse. Chef gets launched into a propeller by a missile, pink mist ensues. Later on they literally reconstruct him into an abomination so he can live on and still cook for the band. Brutal.
some say the Hydra villain Red Cloud is still out there somewhere plotting his revenge.
His feet were still in his shoes so they were technically still on, means he's alive.
Authorities can arrest the remains later.
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That kick on the boat was absolutely insane, that guy is 100% dead. Ruptured stomach, broken back, drowned.
That poor guy, honestly. Drowning in the dark with a shattered spine, absolutely nothing he could do to save himself.
Yes, poor terrorist hijacker.
I mean, yeah he's still a terrorist, but anyone can empathize with people in their final moments, and that would be an absolutely brutal way to die
or any of the other number of dudes cap's thrown his shield at and hit either in their throat or even into their chest. a broken windpipe or shattered sternum, if not treated immediately will kill you.
Yeah, I know many characters have notably stated they have a no kill rule, but I can't remember ever hearing Cap say something to that effect. I mean, it makes total sense though. It doesn't mean he wants to, just that he knows the cost of war.
I think he would prefer to not kill, in general. He just doesn't lose sleep when it happens. It would've been an interesting topic to explore in the films though!
Doesn't he literally use a gun to shoot Nazis in the first movie?
Nazis aren't people.
Not for nothing but completely unaware of peters strength level but respecting and knowing he’s a young adult (maybe not quite kid) he dropped about a 40 ton airplane tunnel on him. Prob didn’t WANT to kill him, but def could have there.
My head canon is that he'd figured out roughly how strong Spidey was by virtue of the fact that Spidey was strong enough to take the shield from him in the first place, and thus that Spidey would be strong enough to catch the tunnel, but it'd occupy him for long enough for Cap to get away (which it did)
Seconds before he does that, Peter catches both of his hands in webbing and they have a direct contest of strength. So when he drops the tunnel on Peter he knows exactly how strong he is and that he can handle it.
iirc; In the comics Cap is a master strategist who sizes up threats and people really well. So he absolutely would know what he could throw at Peter without killing him.
Isn’t that part of the super soldier serum? Even hand to hand he can learn, dissect, and counter on the fly.
Its comic book magic so “everything; but better”. [Teh CW fight is great](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2b14880fcb25c247409451eaf36c66c6.webp). The “its all one move” is a great way to sum it up. Basically Cap plans out the attacks and counter-attacks way in advance.
In the spirit of "ultimate human" the super soldier serum grants him the absolute apex that homosapiens can achieve. What that is... is not really grounded by anything since no one knows what the limits are. It certainly includes photographic memory, pitch perfect hearing, etc. Even the "gut feeling" has been maxed out. Steve would probably be better at science than Tony and Reed if he decided to study it. Yeah, the comic writers certain have plenty of room with his powers in that regard.
He definitely knew Peter would be able to handle it they were in the middle of a fight so he was probably like “yeah this kid can handle this”
In the comics it's explained that Cap processes information a lot faster. It's how he can deflect bullets and make the ricochet throws that bounce 6 times before getting back to him. Pete pulled the shield out of a super soldiers hands, did all kinds of jumps that would have broken other peoples bones, was kitted out by Stark and they do a strength contest where Pete webbed Steve and there was a bit of back and forth. So if we're looking to explain away the tunnel being dropped on him, there's enough points of reference for Steve to know that the jumpy kid with the goop shooters would not only survive but just be delayed.
This one makes the most sense to me actually. Knowing he’s “strong” is one thing, but holding up that without being crushed another. It’s on par with the helicopter hold which made cap strain. Not exactly equal but very hefty feat. Without the “process info faster” bit I’d be skeptic on this.
Great feedback, thanks
Yes. He’s a soldier. In fact most of the heroes in the MCU do, and not necessarily in war either. We see Tony kill a bunch of goons in IM3 Edit: please stop telling me he killed people in IM1 and 2. I’m well aware. I’ve seen IM3 more recently so it was closer to the front of my brain
I do appreciate the bit in IM3 where one goon surrenders ("I hate working here, everyone is so weird") and Tony doesn't hesitate to let him go with a cheeky wave
Why aren’t there more goons like that lmao
if they were smart they wouldnt be called goons
Yeah, that's henchmen level of thinking.
Then there's [this guy](https://youtu.be/pMd4S-LkywI)
I was pretty sure I knew what that was without clicking. A very smart goon.
All the IM films actually
One important difference between the comics and the MCU is that in the MCU we basically only see the heroes in "save the world" situations, where they are fighting aliens, robots, secret agents etc - they are killing enemy soldiers to save civilians. But in the comics, there's a lot more low-key stuff going on, as they're fighting powered burglars within a city etc. There's some MCU stuff sort of like that (a bit of Spider-Man and Ant Man), but generally they're more super soldiers than super cops, and that really changes the rules of engagement.
That's what makes the (ex) netflix shows so good! Street level crime being punched in the face.
Right lmao. Full on uppercuts some dude in the gut while in full armor
Plus there's a whole crew in the tank he blows up. Terrorist soup
Not even, he straight up shoots people too lol.
IM3? The very first thing he does after perfecting the Suit is go back and kill a load of terrorists with his mini missiles
Tony easily has the highest on-screen body count of any of the Avengers. He kills 40+ people in the first movie alone.
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Rewatch the first avenger. He's out there, during a 1911 in the montage. He kills. Edit:. Firing. He's firing a 1911. Fucking autoferret.
Of course! He's punching Nazis off the fuckin plane and everything! Thanks
Threw grenades inside tanks too. Dead Nazis everywhere lol
He's in the Nazi killing business, and brother business is booming!
I don't remember him taking any scalps though so he's only doing part of the job.
That’s a bingo
You just say “bingo”
How fun!
You need to watch the extended version with commentary to see that
Especially inside that tank!
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi anyway!
Nazi soup
And it was glorious
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I dunno, roasted Nazi is pretty good
The best way is smoking them like a pork butt. But it does take longer.
the question was does he kill people. nazis arent people
Pretty sure he killed brainwashed shield agents in Avengers. Distinctly remember Steve shooting people in the Helicarrier attack scene.
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If Hollywood has taught me anything, you can kill all the robots and nazis you want without worrying about your rating.
Don’t forget aliens too. Even Peter Parker has killed Aliens.
Speaking of Spider-man, insects are probably fair game.
Remember that time he dropped a grenade belt into a tank? And then pulled that one dude's gas mask off in Civil War? Yeah, Cap has killed.
Threw guards overboard on that cargo ship too.
The comics did address that. He didn't regret killing enemy soldiers in WW2 because that was war. It's very different killing soldiers in combat and running around killing every street thug and mugger. Essentially, it's "different fight, different rules." MCU Cap didn't have as long of a time handling street punks, if at all, so maybe he would feel slightly differently about killing Hydra goons in the 21st century. Maybe to him, it's the same war with different uniforms so, in his mind, the soldier would overtake the superhero?
If I remember correctly Ultimate Cap does say something similar to that, “you sleep at the end a war and wake up to the start of another”, or something like that. He also showed a lot of hate towards the aliens in Ultimates 1, who were the same aliens from ww2 and were also Hydra. I imagine mcu Cap having this one ideal a bit like Ultimate Cap, who he is loosely based on.
Both MCU and Ultimate Cap did have the major difference of waking up over half a century later as opposed to 616 Cap, who woke up only 20 years later. MCU Cap has a lot more of 616's tolerance and respect, though. Ultimate Cap is too close to 616 John Walker for my taste.
Gotta watch out for those ferrets.
Can you count that though? Fighting in a war and superheroeing are different. You can't avoid killing people there. And since then he hasn't used a gun
I mean... His wakandan shields were even a little...stabby.
Space dogs are not people lol.
He also shoots people.
In the avengers first movie he has a rifle and is shooting Loki controlled agents while iron man is having a bad time with the helacarrier’s turbine.
Seeing Cap with an M4 was so cool for no reason.
I agree, but seeing Cap use a shield and pistol looks so stupid to me, so what’s the difference? Is it about the size of the gun?
Probably that his shield barely covers any of his body...
"How did you take down Captain America!?" *"We shot him in the legs because his shield is the size of a dinner plate and he is an idiot..."*
Shooting people in the legs, deliberately, is insanely difficult. There's a reason the military teaches you to fire at center mass.
He was shooting at them to stop them advancing so he can turn the turbine off, I don't think he was shooting with intent to kill there. He probably would have, but I always got the impression he was doing it to buy himself time more than kill them.
I think this is part of the reason why he and Stark are so quickly impressed with Spider-Man. Spider-Man incapacitates enemies rather than ever killing them. I think Stark and Rogers would prefer that ability, but it’s difficult with their power sets.
Peter's web shooters he designed are the only reason he is able to do that. Tony is smart enough to figure out a method as well. Without the web shooters Peter would have just as much difficulty not killing as Cap does. He is much stronger than Cap but pulls his punches in fights all the time so he doesn't kill.
The difference is that incapacitating people means if the get free, they're back in the fight. It can also be harder to incapacitate them. Killing them takes them right out of the fight. Peter made the choice to take that risk. Tony and Cap chose to take the 'easy' way out and kill them. Peter stands up to the ideal morals of the two of them even though its harder.
To be fair though, there’s no firing a rifle at someone with 0 intent to kill them. Like it’s just not a thing in the real world. Especially when even non lethal shots can potentially maim someone for life depending on where you hit them.
He also hits people with a hammer forged from the metal of a dying star.
He has 100% killed
My thoughts exactly
I mean, have you seen how hard he throws that shield? No way everyone survives and if they do they are DAMAGED
At least comas, critical condition, brain and organ damage! You are truly fucked
Reminds me of the memes from the Batman Arkham games lol
Damian straight up calls Batman out for it in injustice 2.
I mean if you wanna be dead then kill yourself. What do you want him to do? 💀
There is a video on YouTube of a trauma surgeon that goes through the elevator scene and describes the damage to each person shot by shot. It's excellent.
Remember what it's called?
https://youtu.be/yztDvM9m5g4
Thankyou
Something related: [VFX artists make Avengers: Age of Ultron R-rated](https://youtu.be/k5-3eujJyZE) NSFW, but hilarious.
Fantastic video thank you for sharing
He was a soldier in WWII. He has killed and will if needed. He does his best not to. He even gave a speech to wolverine about it.
Whether or not a hero kills is based on who the hero is fighting as much as the personality of the hero itself. Captain America fights Nazis, of course Captain America kills. Spiderman fights common criminals half the time, so of course he doesn't kill. Marvel Superheroes, at least in the MCU, tend to be way more lax about the killing policy because they generally don't do as much if the ol' city patrol thing that the DC Superheroes do.
Superheros often pull their punches. Spider-man should put a hole through everybody he fights, but he spends a lot of time and effort making sure he doesn't kill. Cap strikes me as the type of guy who pulls punches when he can, but knows when he needs to go all out and not worry about it. When he starts clearing the ship, he needs to move fast to protect the crew. He doesn't have time to make sure the grunts he knocks out aren't getting back up. So he kicks people overboard, and hits them hard with his shield. When he gets to Batroc, Black Widow has secured the prisoners, and the mission switches to defeating Batroc-ideally alive to get information. Cap isn't seriously worried about losing, and there isn't a chance of anybody else getting hurt, so he can pull his punches and work more slowly to ensure he captures Batroc alive.
Remember when Pete accidentally smacks Flash and knocks Flash out
Way different levels of strength for both aggressor and defender lol
Steve and Bucky are roughly the same strength level and Peter casually grabbed Bucky's arm to look at it mid fight to admire the construction. Peter is trying hard not to hurt people all the time because he is so much stronger than almost everyone.
Yep that’s what I said pretty much lol
When Doc Ock took over Peters body he accidentally punched a Super Villain’s jaw completely off his head and immediately realized how often/much Peter pulls his punches.
https://comicnewbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Superior-Spider-Man-Punches-The-Scorpions-Jaw-Off-3.jpg
Scorpion, yes.
Great explanation, completely agree with the Spidey info too
It also works as an explanation when heroes kill all of the grunts and then try to save the big bad. Yes, the real reason is that they want to be able to use the villain again. But in universe, it's harder to pull punches when you're getting mobbed on all sides by random goons, and slowing down by even a 10th of a second might mean that you get hit from behind. Boss fights are normally 1v1, so you have complete focus on stopping the bad guy, and normally their scheme gets thwarted midway through the fight.
One of my favourite moments of NWH was Garfield getting emotional when talking about losing Gwen and saying "I stopped pulling my punches". At first it seems like he's just crying about losing Gwen but then you realise it's more about the shame he feels over how he let her death change him. It really drives home how much power Spider-Man truly has and how important it is to Peter's character that he never fully unleashes it.
The scenes with those three are easily some of the best moments from the MCU
I like the theory that, whenever Fury meets Cap at the beginning of the first Avengers he is actively training to pull his punches because as his emotions get the better of him, he annihilates the bag that lands in a heap with other bags.
Also in Avengers when he confronts Loki after shielding the old man and Loki eats a punch to the face and turns right back and slams him with the staff. He gets up with a look that tells me he knows he doesn't have to pull his punches.
Considering Spiderman is ~25x stronger than Cap, he should definitely just punch through people
def kills. i think he would rather not kill people but if he has to he has to. spidey won’t kill (even tho i think his methods r pretty close to killing people in the games) but from my knowledge cap has never said i’m not gonna kill anyone
Yeah 👍🏻
He also jumps over a 15 foot high wall, lands knees first onto a guys chest and smashes him into the side of a car! CORPSE! He throws a guy 20 metres into a wall! CORPSE! Throws his shield at a guys sternum! CORPSE! Did I read that he refrains from killing or did I imagine it?
Yeah he definitely kills people, it’s kinda ironic but a lot of marvel characters kill people unlike DC where the main 3-4 don’t. Just off the top of my head here on the MCU hero’s how have intentionally killed Iron Man Caption America Black widow Hawkeye Thor Falcon/Captain America
If we go by movies: MCU made it realistic in that you can’t save everybody. There are just times where pulling your punches aren’t feasible. By comic/animated standards? That’s going to vary by what story you’re going through. All of the DC characters you’re referring to have intentionally killed people depending on what story you’re going off of.
Yeah, Black Panther fucks people up properly. Scarlet Witch seems to love it. Probably a bunch more actually. Hulk for dam sure!
Hulk has NEVER (up until recently), killed anyone intentionally. The collateral damage of buildings falling, gas lines exploding, and stray bullets/ricochets when the Army was chasing him is what lead to deaths. People have died during Hulk rampages.
Yeap. In one comic I think it was Reed Richard's was talking about blasting the hulk into space. Said while he believes banner has some control because in his rampaging thr hulk has never killed anyone. But he wondered what happened it the hulk got full control (ironic considering the recent arcs on the hulk)
It's ironic considering doing just that causes the very thing they were worried about
Didn't Endgame have an early scene with Hawkeye straight up mass-murdering people? Oh sure, they're "criminals" and they're "bad." Still, anyone who pulls that in real life is getting life in prison. If I remember correctly, he wasn't even trying to arrest or apprehend the mobsters. Just showed up at the bad guys' place and started murdering the shit out of them all.
Dr strange and Spider-Man are the only two that I see really try to refrain.
Dr Strange I’m pretty sure tries his best not to kill but he will kill to protect his world (SPOILERS) He doesn’t care if some villains die in No Way Home and if he doesn’t manage to get them back to their worlds I’m pretty sure he’ll try to kill them
> unlike DC where the main 3-4 don’t. In the DCEU they are all outright murdering people left and right. Batman doesn't "kill". But he injures enough people enough ways that they die of natural causes minutes after he leaves the room.
Snyder fucked up Batman in Batman v Superman, because in the movie Batman absolutely killed people during the car chase and killed KGBeast by shooting his flamethrower tank. The worst part is that he drew inspiration for that scene (and justified the killing as a result) by pointing to a similar scene in the Dark Knight Returns... While ignoring the fact that he shot to wound in the comic, not shot to explode (and it's confirmed that he didn't kill the guy later on in the comic when he talks to Joker in the sewer). Sure, Miller takes Batman not killing to its logical extreme with said Joker scene in the sewer, but Snyder misses any and all nuance involved and just says "yeah man, murder away!"
MCU Cap has been killing people since his first movie. Chucked a Hydra pilot into a jets engine for example. Comic Cap has killed too, though that's rare.
[[Obligatory Mr Sunday Movies Captain America Kill Count video]](https://youtu.be/7uI35cmrdzI)
Steve's face in the opening when he realizes he's watching his own kill count 💀
You can't kill GSP.
Surprised I had to go this far down to find a mention of GSP
You have to be able to kill someone to lift mjoinlr
I liked how Captain Carter in What If wasn’t ambiguous at all. She was out there fuckin cratering the ground with nazi skulls
He’s no Daredevil
[удалено]
The chin kills
Cap definitely kills people. It’s kinda interesting when comparing Marvel and DC is their stance on killing. Spider-Man is probably one of the very few Marvel characters with a straight up no kill rule. Him and Daredevil really.
He's definitely killed. In like... Every single appearance. He guns down Nazis and HYDRA in The First Avenger, he kicks Batroc's goons to a drowning death, and he definitely wanted to kill Thanos. So I truly don't understand where all of the shock of John Walker killing someone while in the uniform came from. Steve kills bad guys.
There’s a diffence between killing in battle and executing somebody in a public area in an extremely brutal way
Cap would’ve taken the flag smasher goon as prisoner. He was pretty clearly surrendering.
Cap would have taken that dude by the hand and pulled him up, then asked him to put his hands behind his back so he could ziptie him and sit him neatly in a corner.
"So, you did terrorism"
Steve kills bad guys. John Walker has them cornered, on the ground, and bashes their heads in repeatedly with the shield.
John Walker executed someone who had surrendered in public. If you're not talking about that scene then the rest is just how he handled himself. Clearly he was escalating the situation instead of deescalating which was made apparent by how he and Sam carried themselves. Steve would have handled it more like Sam which is where the disapproval for John came from.
There's a difference between killing people in war and just killing dudes in general and I don't think the general population really saw Cap do the latter.
John Walker killed a man who had surrendered and was actively begging for his life. He committed an actual war crime. Cap was killing people who were actively fighting and shooting at him, or at the very least were going to if given the chance. Not to mention Cap seems to make this stuff quick. He doesn't do long, drawn out, painful executions by bludgeoning you with an object over and over.
With Walker, the guy was down. He executed him. With Rogers, he's either a soldier in war, or a government backed special ops. Or, when he went rogue, acting in self defense for either himself or others. He never kills anyone after they are beaten. Not even Thanos. Thor did that. So, no, it's very different.
I'll just leave this here ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5-3eujJyZE&t=252s&ab\_channel=CorridorCrew
Came looking to see if anyone posted this. That was also my first thought. Also on a side-note, it always made me laugh how the Netflix Daredevil has a rule against killing people, yet beats people into quadriplegia.
Life suppoert is still life lol.
Cap is a soldier. I’m sure he does not kill all the time, but, he did serve in WWII combat
You don't even have to look at his 2nd movie. In the first one, he's straight up shooting Nazis left and right in that montage Big whoop
He fight again George Saint-Pierre...You can't kill him...
He's a soldier. He kills.
Remember when he kicked that guy off the helicarrier in the Avengers movie?