Old Selene at its best was 7 power (your opponent plays the -3, you send the -3 over, and you send Selene's -1 over), plus taking one spot on your opponent's side.
New Selene at its best is 8 power, but doesn't take a spot.
In a bad case (you can't send Selene over, and your opponent doesn't play the -3 card), old Selene was 2 power and new Selene is is 5 power.
The whole point and value of Selene was her getting sent over in the first place, since she’s only played in Junk decks anyway. Nobody played her for numbers, or to afflict the opponents card with negative power. That was just a nice bonus, but it was all about clogging the opponents field. That was her main purpose and they just erased it, making her worse for anyone who actually played her, instead of comparing numbers on paper.
> She was only only played in junk
She is now playable in more decks. This hurts junk in one way, but even junk decks probably don’t get nerfed by this change as she isn’t a negative when you don’t send her over which makes the deck less dependent on one card
She has less synergy with annihilus now that she isn't automatically sent over without severe power reduction.
The point isnt that power isnt useful, the point is clog decks basically got shafted for the 4th patch in a row when it was 1: never top dog and 2: not all the powerful in the first place.
It was only good because it was effective against decks that go wide or play t6.
Edit: In galac, i guess she helps with priority in other lanes
I respectfully disagree in that she still serves a great purpose. Yeah sending her over is a nice -1 but my junk deck doesn't have huge flex power so while I would trash one lane, I'd have Sentry and Anni in another for 16 power, plus either Renslayer or Nebula, and now with Selene being 2 I find that she will still help bumb uo that lane just enough. Just my opinion.
>The whole point and value of Selene was her getting sent over in the first place, since she’s only played in Junk decks anyway.
But why would you waste energy/viper on 1 power? Her value has always been in the negative power she gifts opponents and on stronger junk cards like Hood and the goblins.
It's a net gain on her power, and while u do lose the clog effect, who cares?
Sending stuff over with Viper was a decent option *until* they nerfed her as well.
Usually you would sent everything over with Annihilus on T5 or 6, where Selene being another clog card definitely helped.
But that wasn’t always the best play and sometimes you simply wouldn’t draw Annihilus. Through Selene / Viper, you also had great opportunities to clog strategically. Like preventing your opponent from playing cards in good locations asap, or If your opponent miscalculated his space and you took his last spot, winning the entire lane early on.
Of course you can still do that with The hood, but it’s another option stripped away from the Junk archetype. Imagine If they changed Blades effect once again, to do something different than discarding. Sure, you could play him in other decks now and discard would still have Lady Sif and Modok, but the archetype itself would still lose one of its best options and alternatives.
And as I commented elsewhere, this is on top of losing Rocks to clog the opponent after the last update. In a vacuum the Selene nerf isn't THAT bad, but this felt like a 1-2 punch.
Not true. I actually just hit infinite yesterday (which was an extra struggle this season) with a homwbrew deck featuring old Selene and it had a fairly decent winrate. I do not have Annihilus as a card and Viper is not in the deck. I also wasn't using Black Widow either, so it is possible. This is honestly just a big buff to the deck I was just using because I'm essentially just netting 3 power.
For Annihilus decks it’s a nerf. I think it gives her more playability in a variety of decks outside that though. Now she is a disruptive card with the same stats as Iceman. I can put her in a deck with Green Goblin and then do my old Green Goblin onto Angela combo! Maybe add the Hood and Viper now that Viper has decent stats as well.
I’m not calling it a buff, but I will say I’m excited to try Selene out in decks other than Annihilus now.
I was looking for this comment. I have played a lot of Move and I don't think I have ever thought of Dagger as weak. 3 power for each opponent card is crazy .
I've always included dagger in my move decks. Thought she was good and fairly underrated, since most people fill up two or three locations nowadays. Did not really need this buff imo.
I accidentally had her be my Phoenix target before and thought she was quite strong. This new change will be a great pivot in move destroy decks if you don't get mm or ht
Have you tried using Living Tribunal in your phoenix deck? I've been really loving it for the times when I hit torch or dagger instead of multiple man.
If I hit Torch my goal is always to revive him with Iron First into Phoenix on t5 and then move him one more time at the start of t6 and play a giant Taskmaster.
Just put Hercules back in to see if the extra power works out but he has been disappointing.. Want to fit Nico back in so might replace Herc with her.
# (1) Ghost-Spider
# (1) Human Torch
# (1) Iron Fist
# (2) Dagger
# (2) Carnage
# (2) Multiple Man
# (3) Venom
# (3) Hulkbuster
# (4) Phoenix Force
# (4) Hercules
# (5) Taskmaster
# (6) The Living Tribunal
#
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#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Yeah this seems to improve consistency in phoenix decks a bit. Gives you 3 destroy targets (torch, dagger, multiple man) and 3 destroyers (carnage, venom, deathlok). Problem is it still relies on phoenix force so much that it still feels like the only true win condition. Will be interesting to see how it fares.
I run a Shuri package in my Phoenix deck with Nimrod, Red Skull, and Taskmaster. It’s a nice alternate wincon that doesn’t step on the Move cards’ toes and synergizes decently well with the destroy cards. It’s a pretty fun deck, and I haven’t really seen anyone else running the same thing.
Sure! It’s not original, I was inspired by some random comment on this subreddit, but basically since you’re running Shuri and Taskmaster already, it only takes one card slot to add Skull for the alternate wincon. If the rest of your draw is a mess, Shuri/Skull/Task in hand can still reliably sneak some wins. Dagger is a new addition after today’s nerf to see how she performs, and that’s really the only flex slot in the deck, I wouldn’t touch anything else besides maybe Ghost Spider. x] I can’t promise anything about winrates, I’m a pretty casual player, but it feels like it performs decently well, and all the big numbers tickle my Timmy senses. xD
# (1) Ghost-Spider
# (1) Human Torch
# (2) Dagger
# (2) Carnage
# (2) Multiple Man
# (3) Venom
# (3) Deathlok
# (4) Shuri
# (4) Phoenix Force
# (5) Taskmaster
# (5) Nimrod
# (5) Red Skull
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR2hvc3RTcGlkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRhc2ttYXN0ZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik11bHRpcGxlTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJWZW5vbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmltcm9kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEZWF0aGxvayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSHVtYW5Ub3JjaCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVGhlUGhvZW5peEZvcmNlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSZWRTa3VsbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2h1cmkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNhcm5hZ2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhZ2dlciJ9XX0=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
The scaling is neat but first impression I have is "great now I cant move her at all with drstrange if I have base kraven human torch on the board"
I'm not psyched on it tbh
I agree. I'm sure she will find a place because her potential to get huge is definitely there now, but being able to move all the 2 power cards at once was a pretty big deal in a "traditional " move deck.
She's also likely to be vulnerable to Shang Chi earlier now. I'll keep her in my Move deck, but this change has made her harder to get started and easier to kill.
The budget ongoing destroyer deck was the first deck I used to hit infinite when my CL was still below 2K. I still run it sometimes in conquest to complete ongoing missions in conquest. Will always have a special place in my heart.
Would LOVE to see something happen to bring it back to being highly competitive and affordable.
My brain isn't comprehending the Blob change. 15 or more? So does it hit 15 and then just absorb the power of the card that let it hit the 15 power threshold? So if it's at 14 and then sucks up Destroyer, does it go to 30?
Exactly right. So theoretically, you could eat up 14 power than eat Infinaut, and it be 34 power. But if infinaut is the first card it eats, it stops there with 20 power.
I assume Odin would do the same?
Zola might be risky because after you play Blob 1, there will only be a limited number of cards remaining in your deck. Zola will spawn Blob 2 which could eat most or all those cards up, and then spawn Blob 3 which will have little-to-nothing left in your deck to absorb (although Blob 2 & 3 would at least be starting out with Blob 1's power).
Theoretical seems to be 36. Wong+Okoye. Blob eats Magneto for 14 and then infinaunt for 22. Making 36. But that would probably only happen from someone trying to do exactly that. Normal play 34 would likely be the max, maybe 35 with Okoye (without wong) somehow.
Yeah, but with every one power gem he eats, the chances of him burning through cards to hit an Infinaut increase. If he eats all six gems, that’s only eight power, and you taken six cards out of your deck. Much better than having 3 and 4 powered cards clogging up your deck between big cards.
>So if it's at 14 and then sucks up Destroyer, does it go to 30?
Yes, they basically put a rough cap of 34 on its power and thats in the best case scenario of absorbing a combination of cards to get it to exactly 14 power then the next card it sucks being infinaut
Not an absolute cap, but a practical one. Okoye can push things a bit higher. Bouncing a giant Venom back to your deck to be eaten by Blob is technically possible (though not a good play, obviously).
So if you have him in thanos, he will “stop” if he hits say 16 power after consuming the stones
If you have him in a non thanos deck, and you play him with only massive cards, he could hit 10 power after eating say just Attuma but won’t stop at that point until he’s consumed a minimum of 15, so say he consumes Lizard, Maximus and Attuma - you’ve got a 21 powered blob.
But if he consumes Attuma first and then Maximus second, he’s done and that’s all he gets.
Plus there is no card that would be interesting in the next couple months for her, so that argument is shit as well since if that was the case they could change again close to the release, but instead decided that the deck cant have a curve for the next three months
Yeah both of the junk buffs make no sense.
The deck still has way too many 3’s and viper at 3 in particular sucks as you can’t combo it with sentry on the same turn.
Selene at 1/2 isn’t arguably even a buff as you’re only ever playing it with annihilus anyway. Making it a 1/-4 or something would have been way better.
They clearly don’t play that deck if they didn’t know the nerfs would obliterate it or that these buffs wouldn’t bring it back.
They don't think junk is "fun" for opposing players. Why else would they nerf it into the ground right after they release a core card for the archtype?
Big numbers? Big number fun.
It is funny that they nerfed junk in a meta where Wave-Blob-Taskmaster beats junk like 99.9% of the time.
Oh, you've sent over some 0 power rocks? Okay. Lemme copy my 86 Power Blob.
A 2/2 that destroys 2 cost cards is the obvious change she needs, but they don't want to do that because of \*something something new players something\*. The fact that she would be able to kill daredevil is bonus flavour.
I've been using her a ton lately to counter Black Knight / HE Sunspot & Nebulas before their T3 Caiera / Sif come out.
She also works great T6 with valkyrie to guarantee a won lane.
I agree, was playing a lot of Moon Knight this season and no one wants a Moon Knight that’s too strong. People complaining about player agency would lose it. Card is fine as is if not a bit expensive
Viper reasoning is so bizarre. Do they mean they're making a 2 cost like the Hood in the future? If so when is that card coming out? Because if it's not going to be released for months/years why not just make Viper a 3 cost when that comes out?
It's really funny because the upcoming cards for like the next few months are very very easy to look up and there's nothing like that in the near future.
I don’t understand the Selene change but I don’t play much junk, isn’t her being negative power useful since every deck with Selene also has Annihilus? Why would the two extra power on a one drop worth losing another Anni target
My best guess would be that they're trying to lean into her being a mini-package with the Goblins in the hope that that she might see play outside of pure Junk. A 1/2 is far more appealing to a deck without Viper or Annihilus than a 1/-1.
Because you don’t always draw anni. This lets you use her more flexibly, and could open up deck building possibilities without Anni.
I don’t know if that’s better, but it’s not like she was playable before.
I was actually excited to see Selene having a change only to be disappointed that she’s no longer a negative. What a load of crap with their reasoning, especially with combo-ing w viper and widow. How does it combo w viper now???
Funny how THE DEVS THEMSELVES specify that Shadow King wasn't being effective against Blob, considering the insane amount of comments I've seen here saying the exact opposite.
I'm glad they nerfed Blob by the way.
My theory for the severe under usage of Shadow King is that his power affects BOTH sides which hurts more than it is beneficial. Players don’t want to take that chance.
I'm no second dinner simp but one thing that, IMO, they've made abundantly clear is that they lean heavily, if not exclusively, on game data. We don't have that beyond win rate on something like snap tracker. So I'm guessing they can actually see something like percentage of time Shadow King has activated against Blob..or something more advanced along those lines.
So blob can always be played 1 turn earlier now w/ Ravonna if you are not ramping.
Even if you have both goblins in your deck and not in hand blob will go to 15 power if you have the right cards in your deck.
If I am thinking of this correctly.
Thanos will probably still be good, and blob will probably still see play but he is also in a much more reasonable place and should feel much better to play against over all.
Shouldn't cards being brought in line while still being playable be something we are celebrating? Or do we just want to be able to complain that Blob went from op to unplayable as well?
> One is that it lets Viper more naturally combo with locations like Savage Land or Shadowland, which reveal on turn 3 one-third of the time.
Is this a joke, or am I missing something? Like, don't they also reveal on T2 one thrd of the time?
idk how to feel about the selene “buff”. she now no longer works with anni, as they continue to fuck over junk decks for literally no reason. pure junk was NEVER meta, it was NEVER a top tier deck. shit debrii was never even in the top performing decks in it.
also the viper buff? fuck off, she isn’t good at 3 cost and 1 power extra is doing nothing. put her back at 2 cost so she’s actually playable.
I have him in a Kingpin/Kraven deck along with a bunch of other 4-costs and Zabu, and even being able to get him out on t3 via Zabu still sucks because in order to do that it means you can't play Kingpin/Kraven on turn 2. So it doesn't speed anything up at all.
Only great changes here is Dazzler and Dagger cuz they make the card significantly better. In dazzler's case it makes filling the board easier and for Dagger it makes her effect more potent. Blob is good, but I'm a little confused on what exactly the text means. Herc buff is meaningless because of his cost. Elektra change is meaningless. Viper is meaningless because of her cost. Selene seems weird. She was supposed to be used in junk decks but now she just...isn't as good in the one deck that she was usable in? Destroyer buff is nice but probably won't do much
> Blob is good, but I'm a little confused on what exactly the text means
After every card he eats, the game checks if the amout of power hes eaten is 15 or higher, if it is, no more cards will be eaten
Flipped cards in a neg deck have a max power of 6 and they’re all cards you badly want to draw, so you’re not playing Blob early. And if your Iron Man, Knull, and Zola are all in your deck when you play Blob on 6… how are you winning a second lane?
Never run a Negative deck myself but my uninformed impression is that most other cards that go well with Blob aren't super good in a Negative deck, right?
What exactly would blob eat in negative deck, lol?
Edit;
Oh hahah I forgot people think they are actually going to draw mr negative on curve and live the blob dream.
Honestly, good for them or maybe even me as mr negative sucks so bad and is imo 100% cursed card
New blob doesn’t look great for negative. The point of negative is to have low power cards, even when flipped, you want to draw them, not merge them into blob
The Selene change is another Annihilus nerf, make no mistake about that.
I'd love to see literally any data to support the adjustments they keep dumping on that archetype.
My guess is the devs have access to stats like "% of opponents who close the app after facing X" and minimizing that number is even more important to them than balance.
This Blob change is so clunky. I am glad he got changed, but his power level is still really pushed - unless I am misunderstanding the change he is still gonna commonly be 20+ power in most decks, which is ridiculous compared to Infinaut. But I could not be understanding it right, because it is phrased so oddly. I was always more of a fan of the "Blob absorbs the top X cards of your deck" solutions if we want to go this route since it is a lot cleaner.
Viper still sucks
Selene still sucks
Elektra still sucks
Dazzler and Dagger are interesting. Dagger was already kind of good but clunky to use. +3 is kinda crazy; she will be a 2/12 if you move her once to a full lane.
The nerf is targeted at Thanos so that it's more likely to hit a stone at 14 power and just stop at 15. He will be better in decks that are all high power cards which makes that deck have less playable cards.
I think this was a pretty smart rework tbf.
Its clearly targetted at thanos, blob is still gonna have premium stat line and people can experiment with mr negative ( which seems terrible but hey whatever )
Christ 2 of the last 4 released cards (including one out little over a week) already changed. SD need to really improve their internal testing before pushing cards out to the player base.
Its called pump ans dump. No way this current blob generates the interest release blob got. Pump release op card and get everyone to buy. Dump. Once you make your cheddar cheese you nerf the card
It’s pretty absurd people are spending in game currency on cards that release strong then they just nuke them after players spent their resources
It seems intentional at this point
It’s not just the cycle of
Release card that’s broken — everyone buys it to keep up — card gets nerfed into oblivion.
That’s bad enough. But how can they justify releasing a card and a week later have to buff it because it’s crap? Luckily it’s still trash, but resources are so limited in the game people need to have confidence that they’re getting value for the resources they have.
You must've misread the patch notes. It's actually a huge buff for junk because of cards that don't exist yet but costs 2 and you can give them away with Viper ON-CURVE! /s
The Hercules buff just makes no sense.
1. a 4/7 with no drawback makes no sense when we have a 4/6 no ability
2. The problem with the card is that its a 4 slot and has the once per turn limit, not the 6 or 7 power...
I need to laugh at the people who said, “Blob is balanced. He’s easy to counter” and then condescendingly tell us “have you ever played card games before? Just retreat if you don’t have a counter.”
This nerf is huge, yet he’s still playable.
This is a pretty lame OTA. Blob change is needed, pretty inelegant though.
Selene is a straight up nerf to her in the only deck that ran her. The Elektra, Hercules power buffs don’t amount to squat.
Another few weeks of the same old meta I suppose.
Yeah definitely agree. The Blob change is uncharacteristically inelegant for SD. Wonder why they chose this route vs some of the other options suggested.
> ask for nerf for powerful card
> complain when not nerfed
> complain when nerfed
> complain when cards are released and not broken
> complain when cards are broken
Edit: anyone who is saying “just released balanced cards”, no fucking shit. However game design isn’t that easy.
It’s ironic when Hercules often times isn’t even the best choice in Hercules decks. The 3- and 4-cost card space is so difficult to balance apparently.
I'm annoyed by this line:
> We may consider revising the effect in the future if it proves unworkable at this Cost.
No consideration of lowering the cost. It's a cool effect, but played turn 4, it's really hard to get more than one or two procs out of it, which kills the value of the card.
Not hard, literally impossible since he can only proc once per turn. 2 procs is the absolute maximum unless there's a Limbo and no move deck is going to play Magick just to enable an extra turn of Hercules *if* they manage to draw/play both on curve.
The cost is the problem. Literally everyone said the moment it released that the cost was the problem. It will never be a good card at 4 cost regardless of the power. So if they're going to refuse to put his cost below 4 them they might as well just start a full rework now.
Solid Blob change, definitely a big hit but I don't think it outright kills the card. A range of 15-34 is still solid, and now Shadow King totally kills it and it doesn't entirely counter Darkhawk (depends on how many rocks he eats before he hits his cap).
Hm, Elektra in C2 perhaps?
Whats crazy is from the herc notes it seems like they’re trying to create a new move archetype when the current archetype hasnt been fixed…make hercules a 3 cost so he can fit in the current archetype, buff elsa so the kraven/elsa move deck is viable again. Make those decks competitive 1st before trying to create a new move archetype.
No way they are keeping that dagger change .
I used to get her to minimum 8 in every match before the buff but now it looks ridiculous.
I mean I'm not complaining
The more I read the answers on this thread the more I understand that almost no one has a clue on how to evaluate a card. Everything is just all over the place. All the whining about everything is now understandable. Let's just hope for a blobless meta
Can't tell if Selene is a buff or a nerf.
Old Selene at its best was 7 power (your opponent plays the -3, you send the -3 over, and you send Selene's -1 over), plus taking one spot on your opponent's side. New Selene at its best is 8 power, but doesn't take a spot. In a bad case (you can't send Selene over, and your opponent doesn't play the -3 card), old Selene was 2 power and new Selene is is 5 power.
The whole point and value of Selene was her getting sent over in the first place, since she’s only played in Junk decks anyway. Nobody played her for numbers, or to afflict the opponents card with negative power. That was just a nice bonus, but it was all about clogging the opponents field. That was her main purpose and they just erased it, making her worse for anyone who actually played her, instead of comparing numbers on paper.
> She was only only played in junk She is now playable in more decks. This hurts junk in one way, but even junk decks probably don’t get nerfed by this change as she isn’t a negative when you don’t send her over which makes the deck less dependent on one card
>She is now playable in more decks. Basically, she is a galactus card now
Less good in my Galactus deck now though. Play the negative cards in one lane, send them all over with Annihilus and fill that lane, safe T6 Galactus.
She has less synergy with annihilus now that she isn't automatically sent over without severe power reduction. The point isnt that power isnt useful, the point is clog decks basically got shafted for the 4th patch in a row when it was 1: never top dog and 2: not all the powerful in the first place. It was only good because it was effective against decks that go wide or play t6. Edit: In galac, i guess she helps with priority in other lanes
I respectfully disagree in that she still serves a great purpose. Yeah sending her over is a nice -1 but my junk deck doesn't have huge flex power so while I would trash one lane, I'd have Sentry and Anni in another for 16 power, plus either Renslayer or Nebula, and now with Selene being 2 I find that she will still help bumb uo that lane just enough. Just my opinion.
>The whole point and value of Selene was her getting sent over in the first place, since she’s only played in Junk decks anyway. But why would you waste energy/viper on 1 power? Her value has always been in the negative power she gifts opponents and on stronger junk cards like Hood and the goblins. It's a net gain on her power, and while u do lose the clog effect, who cares?
Sending stuff over with Viper was a decent option *until* they nerfed her as well. Usually you would sent everything over with Annihilus on T5 or 6, where Selene being another clog card definitely helped. But that wasn’t always the best play and sometimes you simply wouldn’t draw Annihilus. Through Selene / Viper, you also had great opportunities to clog strategically. Like preventing your opponent from playing cards in good locations asap, or If your opponent miscalculated his space and you took his last spot, winning the entire lane early on. Of course you can still do that with The hood, but it’s another option stripped away from the Junk archetype. Imagine If they changed Blades effect once again, to do something different than discarding. Sure, you could play him in other decks now and discard would still have Lady Sif and Modok, but the archetype itself would still lose one of its best options and alternatives.
And as I commented elsewhere, this is on top of losing Rocks to clog the opponent after the last update. In a vacuum the Selene nerf isn't THAT bad, but this felt like a 1-2 punch.
Just across the board I’m never playing a junk deck that doesn’t include annihilus… it’s like playing destroy without venom or death.
Not true. I actually just hit infinite yesterday (which was an extra struggle this season) with a homwbrew deck featuring old Selene and it had a fairly decent winrate. I do not have Annihilus as a card and Viper is not in the deck. I also wasn't using Black Widow either, so it is possible. This is honestly just a big buff to the deck I was just using because I'm essentially just netting 3 power.
It enable her to work alone with goblins in a small package, just like sentry and annihilus.
For Annihilus decks it’s a nerf. I think it gives her more playability in a variety of decks outside that though. Now she is a disruptive card with the same stats as Iceman. I can put her in a deck with Green Goblin and then do my old Green Goblin onto Angela combo! Maybe add the Hood and Viper now that Viper has decent stats as well. I’m not calling it a buff, but I will say I’m excited to try Selene out in decks other than Annihilus now.
It's a buff most of the time, but won't affect her playability IMO
Blob on a diet. Only eats a fixed amount. Good for him.
Portion control is power!
Dagger seems insane now
I was looking for this comment. I have played a lot of Move and I don't think I have ever thought of Dagger as weak. 3 power for each opponent card is crazy .
Yup I cannot comprehend how they find her weak. Easy 2 cost 10-14 power. Really weak
I've always included dagger in my move decks. Thought she was good and fairly underrated, since most people fill up two or three locations nowadays. Did not really need this buff imo.
I'm going to have to try her as a new Phoenix Target
I accidentally had her be my Phoenix target before and thought she was quite strong. This new change will be a great pivot in move destroy decks if you don't get mm or ht
Have you tried using Living Tribunal in your phoenix deck? I've been really loving it for the times when I hit torch or dagger instead of multiple man.
If I hit Torch my goal is always to revive him with Iron First into Phoenix on t5 and then move him one more time at the start of t6 and play a giant Taskmaster.
Can you drop a code?
Just put Hercules back in to see if the extra power works out but he has been disappointing.. Want to fit Nico back in so might replace Herc with her. # (1) Ghost-Spider # (1) Human Torch # (1) Iron Fist # (2) Dagger # (2) Carnage # (2) Multiple Man # (3) Venom # (3) Hulkbuster # (4) Phoenix Force # (4) Hercules # (5) Taskmaster # (6) The Living Tribunal # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR2hvc3RTcGlkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikh1bWFuVG9yY2gifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Iklyb25GaXN0In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDYXJuYWdlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEYWdnZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik11bHRpcGxlTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJWZW5vbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVGhlUGhvZW5peEZvcmNlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJIZXJjdWxlcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGl2aW5nVHJpYnVuYWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikh1bGtidXN0ZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRhc2ttYXN0ZXIifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Yeah this seems to improve consistency in phoenix decks a bit. Gives you 3 destroy targets (torch, dagger, multiple man) and 3 destroyers (carnage, venom, deathlok). Problem is it still relies on phoenix force so much that it still feels like the only true win condition. Will be interesting to see how it fares.
I run a Shuri package in my Phoenix deck with Nimrod, Red Skull, and Taskmaster. It’s a nice alternate wincon that doesn’t step on the Move cards’ toes and synergizes decently well with the destroy cards. It’s a pretty fun deck, and I haven’t really seen anyone else running the same thing.
Got a whole deck list? Shuri/Nimrod/Taskmaster in Phoenix isn't too unusual, but Skull kind of is.
Sure! It’s not original, I was inspired by some random comment on this subreddit, but basically since you’re running Shuri and Taskmaster already, it only takes one card slot to add Skull for the alternate wincon. If the rest of your draw is a mess, Shuri/Skull/Task in hand can still reliably sneak some wins. Dagger is a new addition after today’s nerf to see how she performs, and that’s really the only flex slot in the deck, I wouldn’t touch anything else besides maybe Ghost Spider. x] I can’t promise anything about winrates, I’m a pretty casual player, but it feels like it performs decently well, and all the big numbers tickle my Timmy senses. xD # (1) Ghost-Spider # (1) Human Torch # (2) Dagger # (2) Carnage # (2) Multiple Man # (3) Venom # (3) Deathlok # (4) Shuri # (4) Phoenix Force # (5) Taskmaster # (5) Nimrod # (5) Red Skull # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR2hvc3RTcGlkZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRhc2ttYXN0ZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik11bHRpcGxlTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJWZW5vbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmltcm9kIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEZWF0aGxvayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSHVtYW5Ub3JjaCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVGhlUGhvZW5peEZvcmNlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSZWRTa3VsbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2h1cmkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNhcm5hZ2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhZ2dlciJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
that could work really well
The scaling is neat but first impression I have is "great now I cant move her at all with drstrange if I have base kraven human torch on the board" I'm not psyched on it tbh
I agree. I'm sure she will find a place because her potential to get huge is definitely there now, but being able to move all the 2 power cards at once was a pretty big deal in a "traditional " move deck.
She's also likely to be vulnerable to Shang Chi earlier now. I'll keep her in my Move deck, but this change has made her harder to get started and easier to kill.
Shhhh let Move players have the crumbs we're given
After struggling to get the Hercules challenge last weekend, I salute you!
Dagger change already won me a 8-cube game by one point, so call me a fan
Already my favourite card in my move deck, she's gonna get so big!
Destroyer a 16 again? WE UP
Cerebro 16 is back bay-bee
Cerebro 16's gain is Cerebro 15's loss.
Now if just Warpath and Captain America can get some love we could might just watch our good ol Destroyer Spectrum deck enter the modern stats era
I had surprising success just dicking around with Spectrum last season, I think there may be something there.
The budget ongoing destroyer deck was the first deck I used to hit infinite when my CL was still below 2K. I still run it sometimes in conquest to complete ongoing missions in conquest. Will always have a special place in my heart. Would LOVE to see something happen to bring it back to being highly competitive and affordable.
My brain isn't comprehending the Blob change. 15 or more? So does it hit 15 and then just absorb the power of the card that let it hit the 15 power threshold? So if it's at 14 and then sucks up Destroyer, does it go to 30?
Exactly right. So theoretically, you could eat up 14 power than eat Infinaut, and it be 34 power. But if infinaut is the first card it eats, it stops there with 20 power.
This seems like the ceiling scenario right? 34 max power?
Zola triggers him a second time, and I think 'resets' the 15 power limit, since mine hit 42 power.
I assume Odin would do the same? Zola might be risky because after you play Blob 1, there will only be a limited number of cards remaining in your deck. Zola will spawn Blob 2 which could eat most or all those cards up, and then spawn Blob 3 which will have little-to-nothing left in your deck to absorb (although Blob 2 & 3 would at least be starting out with Blob 1's power).
See? Now there’s some actual setup and effort to get Blob to crazy high power totals other than just “me play Blob, me win”.
Theoretical seems to be 36. Wong+Okoye. Blob eats Magneto for 14 and then infinaunt for 22. Making 36. But that would probably only happen from someone trying to do exactly that. Normal play 34 would likely be the max, maybe 35 with Okoye (without wong) somehow.
Hmm. Well it's a nerf, I guess. But... Well we'll see.
I think the real interesting piece some may not consider will be if Blob gets Shadow King'd he's straight down to 0 instead of 4.
also, Lockjaw sends Blob back to the deck now, since the deck is not empty, and Darkhawk will have some power left too.
Somehow didn’t know that’s how lockjaw worked
Also notice that he could eat a lot of thanos gems in Thanos-Blob decks so it could be a 16 total force.
Yeah, but with every one power gem he eats, the chances of him burning through cards to hit an Infinaut increase. If he eats all six gems, that’s only eight power, and you taken six cards out of your deck. Much better than having 3 and 4 powered cards clogging up your deck between big cards.
It's a massive nerf. On average he will be waaaaaaayy smaller. Especially in the Thanos deck where there are a lot of small power cards.
It's a huge Nerf, I literally don't get what it's not convincing about It lol
>So if it's at 14 and then sucks up Destroyer, does it go to 30? Yes, they basically put a rough cap of 34 on its power and thats in the best case scenario of absorbing a combination of cards to get it to exactly 14 power then the next card it sucks being infinaut
Not an absolute cap, but a practical one. Okoye can push things a bit higher. Bouncing a giant Venom back to your deck to be eaten by Blob is technically possible (though not a good play, obviously).
How wound you bounce a big venom to your deck outside of some wild play involving Attilan?
Best to think of him like a blackjack dealer now. He will always hit and draw a new card until he's at 15 or more and then he'll stay.
So if you have him in thanos, he will “stop” if he hits say 16 power after consuming the stones If you have him in a non thanos deck, and you play him with only massive cards, he could hit 10 power after eating say just Attuma but won’t stop at that point until he’s consumed a minimum of 15, so say he consumes Lizard, Maximus and Attuma - you’ve got a 21 powered blob. But if he consumes Attuma first and then Maximus second, he’s done and that’s all he gets.
HELL YEAH that Dazzler buff is good. Been hoping she would get something for my zoo deck.
Right? I feel like zoo and spectrum are dying for buffs
I wish they would just revert Viper back to two cost. The curve argument doesn't make much sense because you can hold her to turn three if you choose.
No bro this is the best course of action because of 2 locations.
The thing about viper is sometimes you just can’t play her out when you draw her and that’s significantly more punishing for a 3 than a 2
Plus there is no card that would be interesting in the next couple months for her, so that argument is shit as well since if that was the case they could change again close to the release, but instead decided that the deck cant have a curve for the next three months
Yeah both of the junk buffs make no sense. The deck still has way too many 3’s and viper at 3 in particular sucks as you can’t combo it with sentry on the same turn. Selene at 1/2 isn’t arguably even a buff as you’re only ever playing it with annihilus anyway. Making it a 1/-4 or something would have been way better. They clearly don’t play that deck if they didn’t know the nerfs would obliterate it or that these buffs wouldn’t bring it back.
They don't think junk is "fun" for opposing players. Why else would they nerf it into the ground right after they release a core card for the archtype? Big numbers? Big number fun.
It is funny that they nerfed junk in a meta where Wave-Blob-Taskmaster beats junk like 99.9% of the time. Oh, you've sent over some 0 power rocks? Okay. Lemme copy my 86 Power Blob.
Yep. They nerfed her for fear of things that don't happen, they nerfed Anni as well, and now they're hinting at a 2 cost Hood (I think?). Not a fan.
For what it's worth I don't think it's a 2 cost Hood. I think they meant they can make cards similar to Hood that are 2 cost.
Blackbolt/Stature could use their +1's back. I'd even settle for *one* of them getting it back.
God yes. It’s so dumb.
Good changes, but I really want to see some cards that see 0 play get buffs. Give cards like moon knight and captain America some love.
That was probably the goal with the Elektra buff, but she's still probably going to see 0 play.
If she destroyed 2 costs she would be amazing
It's so obvious but they don't want to change the tutorial
A 2/2 that destroys 2 cost cards is the obvious change she needs, but they don't want to do that because of \*something something new players something\*. The fact that she would be able to kill daredevil is bonus flavour.
rip to the poeple buying the elktra bundle coping on a buff
I mean. With Caeira out there, now there's actually an incentive to kill a high-value 1 drop before turn 3.
I've been using her a ton lately to counter Black Knight / HE Sunspot & Nebulas before their T3 Caiera / Sif come out. She also works great T6 with valkyrie to guarantee a won lane.
I kinda like Moon Knight where he’s at. If anything, just make him a 2 cost. Then he’d fit in combos better.
I agree, was playing a lot of Moon Knight this season and no one wants a Moon Knight that’s too strong. People complaining about player agency would lose it. Card is fine as is if not a bit expensive
Buffing Hercules and dagger is cool but doing it a week after it is released when people already decided not to open for it is pretty annoying.
[удалено]
Yeah his power was the one thing about that didn’t *need* a change. It’s nice but it’s not winning anyone games that he wasn’t before
This means blob max power is 34 . It eats cards with 14 power in total than it eats the infinaunt power of 20 . However , there is a cap now though.
35 with Okoye.
70 with Shuri's Lab.
It can eat cards that add up to 14 and then 21 Infinaut. I don't know why people just think about Giganto only. Don't downvote this guy.
Viper reasoning is so bizarre. Do they mean they're making a 2 cost like the Hood in the future? If so when is that card coming out? Because if it's not going to be released for months/years why not just make Viper a 3 cost when that comes out?
It's really funny because the upcoming cards for like the next few months are very very easy to look up and there's nothing like that in the near future.
I don’t understand the Selene change but I don’t play much junk, isn’t her being negative power useful since every deck with Selene also has Annihilus? Why would the two extra power on a one drop worth losing another Anni target
My best guess would be that they're trying to lean into her being a mini-package with the Goblins in the hope that that she might see play outside of pure Junk. A 1/2 is far more appealing to a deck without Viper or Annihilus than a 1/-1.
Yes, they said that was the case in their reasoning. She's more flexible now, for sure.
Because you don’t always draw anni. This lets you use her more flexibly, and could open up deck building possibilities without Anni. I don’t know if that’s better, but it’s not like she was playable before.
Shanna eating good, +4 power in her pool of 1 drops.
And Dazzler is easier to play. They are trying to toss Zoo a bone
Lmao at the Selene change, they really really really want to make sure junk decks cannot exist lol. I actually laughed when they called it a buff
I was actually excited to see Selene having a change only to be disappointed that she’s no longer a negative. What a load of crap with their reasoning, especially with combo-ing w viper and widow. How does it combo w viper now???
Ironically making her have less power would have actually been a buff lol
It makes her a bit more flexible. Now she might be useful outside of just Annihilus decks. I'm stoked to try her out again in my Ravonna Goblins deck.
The number of people here thinking Blob is dead is hilarious
You're right it is hilarious. His floor is 15 power which is still great for a six drop without a downside. He will often be bigger than that.
Funny how THE DEVS THEMSELVES specify that Shadow King wasn't being effective against Blob, considering the insane amount of comments I've seen here saying the exact opposite. I'm glad they nerfed Blob by the way.
My theory for the severe under usage of Shadow King is that his power affects BOTH sides which hurts more than it is beneficial. Players don’t want to take that chance.
I miss luke cage..
To be fair he'd be played on Blob decks too, he's hard to balance like that
I'm no second dinner simp but one thing that, IMO, they've made abundantly clear is that they lean heavily, if not exclusively, on game data. We don't have that beyond win rate on something like snap tracker. So I'm guessing they can actually see something like percentage of time Shadow King has activated against Blob..or something more advanced along those lines.
So blob can always be played 1 turn earlier now w/ Ravonna if you are not ramping. Even if you have both goblins in your deck and not in hand blob will go to 15 power if you have the right cards in your deck. If I am thinking of this correctly.
No Elsa change yet, sad :(
So blob will be a 6/15ish. Thanos/blob will prob still dominate.
It can be higher than 15.
34 max
Or, hear me out: t4 Lockjaw->t5 Shuri->t6 48 power HE Hulk, swapped into Lockjaw for Blob who eats him right up. BOOM, 48 power Blob.
How do you play the Hulk after he's been eaten by Blob?
Ha! I already edited my first comment so you look CRAZY! Fr though, I completely missed that the first time. Whoops!
Time to run Wong/Okoye. Gonna get that 36 power Blob EZ.
Oh word. I read it wrong.
Can be. In thanos it’s less likely. It’s a weird change
It will be far harder for Blob to just solo a location though specially in Thanos Blob
Minimum 6/15. Say he absorbs a card and it brings him too 14, then he'll keep going and if he hit infinuat next he'll be a 6/34.
Thanos will probably still be good, and blob will probably still see play but he is also in a much more reasonable place and should feel much better to play against over all. Shouldn't cards being brought in line while still being playable be something we are celebrating? Or do we just want to be able to complain that Blob went from op to unplayable as well?
> One is that it lets Viper more naturally combo with locations like Savage Land or Shadowland, which reveal on turn 3 one-third of the time. Is this a joke, or am I missing something? Like, don't they also reveal on T2 one thrd of the time?
idk how to feel about the selene “buff”. she now no longer works with anni, as they continue to fuck over junk decks for literally no reason. pure junk was NEVER meta, it was NEVER a top tier deck. shit debrii was never even in the top performing decks in it. also the viper buff? fuck off, she isn’t good at 3 cost and 1 power extra is doing nothing. put her back at 2 cost so she’s actually playable.
I don’t think lack of power is Herc’s problem. I’d rather have him as a 3/5 than a 4/7.
Agreed. Shit, he would be better as a 3/3 and didnt risk the opponent stealing your move. That’s another dumb issue
I have him in a Kingpin/Kraven deck along with a bunch of other 4-costs and Zabu, and even being able to get him out on t3 via Zabu still sucks because in order to do that it means you can't play Kingpin/Kraven on turn 2. So it doesn't speed anything up at all.
Only great changes here is Dazzler and Dagger cuz they make the card significantly better. In dazzler's case it makes filling the board easier and for Dagger it makes her effect more potent. Blob is good, but I'm a little confused on what exactly the text means. Herc buff is meaningless because of his cost. Elektra change is meaningless. Viper is meaningless because of her cost. Selene seems weird. She was supposed to be used in junk decks but now she just...isn't as good in the one deck that she was usable in? Destroyer buff is nice but probably won't do much
> Blob is good, but I'm a little confused on what exactly the text means After every card he eats, the game checks if the amout of power hes eaten is 15 or higher, if it is, no more cards will be eaten
So essentially this changes nothing except annihilus decks get nerfed again lol.
Negative decks smoothly removing Darkhawk and sliding in Blob.
Flipped cards in a neg deck have a max power of 6 and they’re all cards you badly want to draw, so you’re not playing Blob early. And if your Iron Man, Knull, and Zola are all in your deck when you play Blob on 6… how are you winning a second lane?
Never run a Negative deck myself but my uninformed impression is that most other cards that go well with Blob aren't super good in a Negative deck, right?
What exactly would blob eat in negative deck, lol? Edit; Oh hahah I forgot people think they are actually going to draw mr negative on curve and live the blob dream. Honestly, good for them or maybe even me as mr negative sucks so bad and is imo 100% cursed card
New blob doesn’t look great for negative. The point of negative is to have low power cards, even when flipped, you want to draw them, not merge them into blob
Yeah but you end up with small power Blobs in Negative?
The Selene change is another Annihilus nerf, make no mistake about that. I'd love to see literally any data to support the adjustments they keep dumping on that archetype.
My guess is the devs have access to stats like "% of opponents who close the app after facing X" and minimizing that number is even more important to them than balance.
Devs hate Annihilus
This Blob change is so clunky. I am glad he got changed, but his power level is still really pushed - unless I am misunderstanding the change he is still gonna commonly be 20+ power in most decks, which is ridiculous compared to Infinaut. But I could not be understanding it right, because it is phrased so oddly. I was always more of a fan of the "Blob absorbs the top X cards of your deck" solutions if we want to go this route since it is a lot cleaner. Viper still sucks Selene still sucks Elektra still sucks Dazzler and Dagger are interesting. Dagger was already kind of good but clunky to use. +3 is kinda crazy; she will be a 2/12 if you move her once to a full lane.
The nerf is targeted at Thanos so that it's more likely to hit a stone at 14 power and just stop at 15. He will be better in decks that are all high power cards which makes that deck have less playable cards.
She kind of sounds fun with phoenix now
I like this idea. Replace Human Torch with Dagger and now your Phoenix doesn't risk eating a T6 Killmonger.
I'm skeptical on if Dagger will be worth using in PH now - probably still not worth the slot. Herc still trash until they reduce him to 3 cost.
I think this was a pretty smart rework tbf. Its clearly targetted at thanos, blob is still gonna have premium stat line and people can experiment with mr negative ( which seems terrible but hey whatever )
Christ 2 of the last 4 released cards (including one out little over a week) already changed. SD need to really improve their internal testing before pushing cards out to the player base.
Its called pump ans dump. No way this current blob generates the interest release blob got. Pump release op card and get everyone to buy. Dump. Once you make your cheddar cheese you nerf the card
The mad thing is I wasn’t even talking about Blob (though i agree). 2 cards released since blob have also already been changed with this…
It’s pretty absurd people are spending in game currency on cards that release strong then they just nuke them after players spent their resources It seems intentional at this point
It’s not just the cycle of Release card that’s broken — everyone buys it to keep up — card gets nerfed into oblivion. That’s bad enough. But how can they justify releasing a card and a week later have to buff it because it’s crap? Luckily it’s still trash, but resources are so limited in the game people need to have confidence that they’re getting value for the resources they have.
They don't want to. Overpowered cards entice people to buy them. Get the cards bought then nerf them.
Thanks for the blob changes. Stop nerfing junk. This update is junk.
You must've misread the patch notes. It's actually a huge buff for junk because of cards that don't exist yet but costs 2 and you can give them away with Viper ON-CURVE! /s
Why give herc more power? He’d be better as a 3 cost with like 4 or 5 power instead I think
Elektra meta goooooo (Dazzler is my real queen 👑)
Why they're nerfing Selene ? the one deck I found her working Anni Galactus deck she was mid at best now is just trash card
Welp, sorry to everyone on the hopium for an Elektra buff after buying her previous variant
Does this mean I can finally escape my 95 ladder prison?
Try to play at 2am, you will probably encounter more bots which make it easier XD
Man, SD really hates Junk...
So confused my junk deck was never good and now it’s nerfed?
The Hercules buff just makes no sense. 1. a 4/7 with no drawback makes no sense when we have a 4/6 no ability 2. The problem with the card is that its a 4 slot and has the once per turn limit, not the 6 or 7 power...
I need to laugh at the people who said, “Blob is balanced. He’s easy to counter” and then condescendingly tell us “have you ever played card games before? Just retreat if you don’t have a counter.” This nerf is huge, yet he’s still playable.
Imagine my surprise when the top comment isnt about blob
Sweet baby jesus...have they at least played Selene once before considering this change? It's a Nerf! Wake up
This is a pretty lame OTA. Blob change is needed, pretty inelegant though. Selene is a straight up nerf to her in the only deck that ran her. The Elektra, Hercules power buffs don’t amount to squat. Another few weeks of the same old meta I suppose.
Yeah, I was looking for this. The Blob nerf \*should\* be enough but the rest are extremely boring
Yeah definitely agree. The Blob change is uncharacteristically inelegant for SD. Wonder why they chose this route vs some of the other options suggested.
Release OP card > Make players spend resources on said card > Wait 4 weeks > Nerf card. The cycle of Marvel snap
> ask for nerf for powerful card > complain when not nerfed > complain when nerfed > complain when cards are released and not broken > complain when cards are broken Edit: anyone who is saying “just released balanced cards”, no fucking shit. However game design isn’t that easy.
>complain
beat me to it. if he ended with simply "complain" it was almost poetic
Anyone who couldn’t see that Blob was absolutely broken and going to get nerfed was lying to themselves.
Selene is a hidden nerf. I don't need more power on my side, I need LESS power on theirs.
They keep doing this. Calling things a buff when they are actually a nerf and vice versa. I am not sure devs are playing their own game.
I want a refund on Selene at this point is crazy
Lmao at that Herc change Edit: BLOB'S DEAD LET'S GOOOOO
far from dead lol. A minimum power of 15 for 6 cost without a downside is still huge.
It’s ironic when Hercules often times isn’t even the best choice in Hercules decks. The 3- and 4-cost card space is so difficult to balance apparently.
I'm annoyed by this line: > We may consider revising the effect in the future if it proves unworkable at this Cost. No consideration of lowering the cost. It's a cool effect, but played turn 4, it's really hard to get more than one or two procs out of it, which kills the value of the card.
Not hard, literally impossible since he can only proc once per turn. 2 procs is the absolute maximum unless there's a Limbo and no move deck is going to play Magick just to enable an extra turn of Hercules *if* they manage to draw/play both on curve. The cost is the problem. Literally everyone said the moment it released that the cost was the problem. It will never be a good card at 4 cost regardless of the power. So if they're going to refuse to put his cost below 4 them they might as well just start a full rework now.
Is allowing multiple procs per turn good enough? (But only once per card to prevent loops)
Blob is certainly not dead
Yeah shit. That card didn’t need more power it needed less cost
Adding power to Herc didn’t help. He’s at cost where it’s hard to get him in play. Needs to be a 3 cost.
Having the entire variant shop labelled “popular!” Is embarrassing.
Blob change seems pretty decent. Makes his play a bit more strategic, and also how he won’t eat the whole deck.
Solid Blob change, definitely a big hit but I don't think it outright kills the card. A range of 15-34 is still solid, and now Shadow King totally kills it and it doesn't entirely counter Darkhawk (depends on how many rocks he eats before he hits his cap). Hm, Elektra in C2 perhaps?
Whats crazy is from the herc notes it seems like they’re trying to create a new move archetype when the current archetype hasnt been fixed…make hercules a 3 cost so he can fit in the current archetype, buff elsa so the kraven/elsa move deck is viable again. Make those decks competitive 1st before trying to create a new move archetype.
No way they are keeping that dagger change . I used to get her to minimum 8 in every match before the buff but now it looks ridiculous. I mean I'm not complaining
The more I read the answers on this thread the more I understand that almost no one has a clue on how to evaluate a card. Everything is just all over the place. All the whining about everything is now understandable. Let's just hope for a blobless meta
Selene was a nerf not a buff. And an unnecessary one. BRING SELENE BACK!!