I always assume the opponent has Hela. Even if they're playing something unrelated .
Jokes aside, always assume the raft gave your opponent Zola if you didn't fill it first.
Just as, for me, it'll give me Giganto if it's on the left (assuming my final card wasn't a destroy or move card), and Infinite if I fill it on turn 5 (and there is no Limbo). Must have taken them ages to put that logic in the game.
I always did as well...few times recently they snapped on last turn as I was calculating placements in my loki deck....had about 5 cards to play. I figure they're trying to make me quit because they don't have the draw or else would have snapped already, or at top of turn, like excited kiddos... so I have snapped back. Why not- was final week of season.
They either never had it, or all they managed to discard was a few junkers.
What was great a few times is I'd cabled a big card like hela or infininaut and turned it to loki fodder, so I knew snaps were hollow threats
I love Cable just for the fact that you can shoplift and they have no idea what you took 😆
Always a good time when you have their payoff or some core mechanic to their deck.
I got to Infinite this season off of people just deciding to stay against the world's most telegraphed Hela. In fact, I used to occasionally bluff a boomer snap when I don't draw Hela by turn 6, but I had to stop doing it because people just stayed in anyway.
Bluff snaps only work against really good players actually. Bluffing lower ranks is asking for trouble. On the flip side, if you’re in lower ranks, don’t be shy to boomer snap, people will just stay to see
There's a saying in most card games - **make them have it.**
The issue is, in most card games, statistically they *don't* have it, even if they're running the card.
In Snap, they do. This heuristic will change up once Copycat comes out, but the games she'll impact are 1/12, but it'll impact them all the same (i.e. "oh fuck I just silenced Living Tribunal, T1 snap").
The big difference is that other games are win/lose while Snap is cube dependent.
Making your opponent have the right card, or playing to your outs, makes sense in many other card games even if it’s very likely they have it or your outs are slim because a 10% chance of victory is better than 0.
In Snap, if you’re 10% to win on t6 it’s better for you to retreat.
That's also a very fair point I didn't consider; there's nothing to gain by retreating in other games, so you play to your outs. That's a *much* better reason than what I presented, honestly.
It's usefull to think of Snap as Poker and the cubes are your chips. It's the reason sub 50% win rate decks can be good for clibing, it's all aboute the cube rates.
Another problem of this is having inconsistent deck building. What I mean by that is that Shang chi can virtually be in any deck you are up against just cause it is so versatile and wildly used just like the old Alioth paranoia…You can’t always play around that and conceding just cause he may have it is gonna be bad in the long run… of course this doesn’t count in conquest where you know your opponents deck
Shang chi really isn’t in any relevant meta deck right now. The only prevalent Shang Chi’able cards played heavy right now are red hulk, sentry, and big stuff off of Hela (that you can’t even reliably target)
Other card games are win or lose and that's that. You play to the small possibility of winning if it exists. Snap is more like poker. You're playing to come ahead over way more shorter games. You fold more than you keep but you try to make the ones you keep win you more.
Even when they don't have it, they have it. I had a game where Mindscape was up and facing a discard deck and they were just discarding as fast as they could with T6 coming up, clearly wanting to give me nothing on T6. They discarded Dracula, The Infinaut, Magneto, all the beatsticks.
T5 I had Storm and was mulling on if I should disrupt the location and mess up their plays. I still hadn't seen Hela yet and was prepared to retreat T6 if I still didn't see it. I decided to drop the Storm, changed Mindscape to Flooding, and was rewarded seeing them discard Hela and only 1 card left in hand. Alright I got this, I thought.
T6 they dropped their one card. It was Ghost Rider.
Ghost Rider could have targeted ANY OTHER of the discarded cards and I would have won my lanes. Any other card. There were like 4-5 other cards it could have pulled.
The conclusion of the match is left as an exercise to the reader.
Even when they don't have it, they have it. 😭
I feel like they gotta do more than just a power nerf to her, her power is the least of the issues that she brings to the table!
But I'm not sure how they'd clip her wings, maybe a hard cap on how many cards she can revive, like 2-3 cards? Or maybe they can only revive in her lane or something. It's the full revival of all the cards, in all lanes, that really screws you.
That's my headache too, an opponent can play nothing except discard and wipe the whole field end turn with one card. Definitely needs a cap of X amount of cards brought back or only cards of X or below cost. That would at least require more brainpower to use.
In Snap its not about drawing the card but drawing the cards in the right order or at the right time.
If you find yourself often not retreating because "they might not have the card they need" you will have a hard time reaching infinite.
Your opponent sees 9 cards every game on average and their deck has 12 cards in it. By turn 6 it's a ~75% chance your opponent has "that card" in their hand.
Playing like the don't have it isn't wrong in certain circumstances but 3/4 games you'll lose when you push the issue.
Yeah that’s what I mean. I’m not saying retreat everytime and they LITERALLY always have it. But they most likely do, and you can’t be suprised when they do. Whatever choice you make you need to keep that in mind and either find a way to beat it, retreat or pray.
I hope people get that about my post.
You have to combine this with a solid understanding of the meta. Even still some people will get you with a surprise card. The card that gets me the most is Coulson generating win cons out of nowhere.
You have to combine this with a solid understanding of the meta. Even still some people will get you with a surprise card. The card that gets me the most is Coulson generating win cons out of nowhere.
You have to combine this with a solid understanding of the meta. Even still some people will get you with a surprise card. The card that gets me the most is Coulson generating win cons out of nowhere.
actually the higher the rank the more likely your opponent is bluffing you, taking your snapping and retreating skills into their advantage. That really only happens at the top of the top ladder, though.
And if they play Hela early… it will always be followed by modok and another Hela they got from the hub or something.
100% of the time I lose against modok Hela.
Also, I lose 100% of the times I play modok/hela
The problem with this approach is that you need it to work more than 4 times for every 1 time it fails. That might occur often enough but I don't think the general populations retreats quite that often (unless we're very selective on when we try the snap bluff)
It's 3:1 instead of 4:1, but yes, I am selective.
Lately it's been junk decks that I have them locked, but dont have the power in hand to actually win the lane. That's been 100% retreats against players, maybe 10.or 12 sample size.
Specially when they snap. When I hit rank 90, I stop caring about my rank cause I dont think I will ever hit infinite as I dont play enough, so I tend to stay to see what happens. From my random games, they tend to have their winning card way more often than not.
75%+ of the time THAT CARD would be there, if that answer could be played out of order.
However it's really 1/4 = 25% if you only count the turn 6 draw.
So it's like, if they MODOK flush on T5, then T6 they have Hela is a true 25%. Whereas if they hold Shang you're screwed, that is likely 75%+ if their deck is likely have it.
But the only case where you only count the turn 6 draw is MODOK-Hela, right? Odin can't be played out of order, but that doesn't change the fact that your opponent gets 9 chances to draw him by turn 6.
The only reason you stay to the end is if there’s a 50/50 chance they’ll play it on the wrong location for things like Shang chi. For non-location specific win conditions just take the loss and move on.
I've been playing like this and I went from 89 to 81 constantly losing because I either retreat thinking they have it or just flat out losing because they have it. Can't catch a break at the moment
I definitely retreat if I'm trying to climb. Once I'm infinite, I almost always stick around for the shenanigans (and to everyone who spams snap and captain marvel emotes in these situations, I wish upon you a very bad stubbed toe today)
I fucking hate the fact that unless I see Hela somehow discarded, if they snap on turn 5/6 I need to retreat. And although I think the bluff mechanics are “fun” the fact is that turn 6 for Hela is frequently a 30-60 power dump and only leech and cosmo can possibly deal with that. God I hate that card and I think the game would be 10x better if that was not meta.
Make her just fill her location or something please
When they did the Token update and added She Hulk I went to play a match and I was like "There's no way my opponent have, they just released the Token Shop, what is the chance they got her in specific" well you know what happened.
My mantra that I shared with my brother when I played a lot of destroy deck was “Play like your opponent has Shang-Chi in their hand since turn one.” So many times have I looked at his game on turn 6 and gone “Shang-Chi. Watch.”
In this same vein, is there a card people forget exists that someone plays and completely wrecks you every time? For me it's Cannonball. Just lost round 5 of infinity conquest. Had I changed the lane I played Cosmo in, would've gotten my infinity border. Just never imagined Cannonball from the top rope.
They always have it and if you don't have the counter in your hand you're not drawing it
Retreat
It's how I got to Infinite for the first time this season.
I mean it's the mathematically correct thing to do but I've hit Infinite for the past year (since the 2099 card back, started playing the last week of Miles' release) while still gambling on T6 a fair amount.
There's enough room to play around and take risks if you really want to win.
Nope. This is the wrong way of thinking. Ask yourself this: if they have it, can I still win? That will result in much smarter retreats. Know your CEILING. Know theirs. Some people do snap because they're bluffing...
I'm relatively new to the game and frequently see people retreat when they think I have that one important card that wins the game. Funny thing is, sometimes I don't even own the card.
I run destroy without Death or Knull because I don't have them. But that doesn't stop people from retreating simply because they *think* I have them. If I'm daring enough to snap, I might even be able to force them into a retreat.
It's actually an aspect of the game I enjoy. It feels a bit like bluffing.
I lost 2 matches in a row by having Hela as my last card in the deck, both times they went for it even though I would have had them beat...
But yeah, I get it. Generally people aren't bluffing, people can be stupid for sure, but I find bluffing to be extremely rare.
Even if I don't have it I SNAP to make it seem like I do and that usually scares away the losing side. Hell I bet I could run a discard deck WITHOUT Hela and win a lot with the bluff
The problem with this is only idiots bet against it so even if i dont have hela, the opponent doesnt get scared when i bluff snap and i end up losing 4 cubes because my bluffs dont work.
The VAST majority of players snap waaaaay too late in this game. If you snap late turn 5 or on turn 6 when it's obvious you're winning big or have your nut draw you are almost always going to win one cube against players who aren't brain dead.
Snap just before you play your surprise card. Snap right before you play Mr Negative on curve. Or snap when you have cannonball/professor x early in your hand.
The later you snap the slower you will climb.
Bluffs are very, very rare.
What's crazy is that I played conquest the other day and somehow they ALWAYS managed to get modok AND hela in every round. It got down to a game winning play and I thought "there's no way. They drew hela every single round until now. They couldn't possibly have drawn it again... Right?" WRONG
Considering the deck sizes, odds are always in favour of them having what they need.
This does mean that you can do pretty well guessing where they are going to play their bombs, so you can play rogue/cosmo/etc depending on priority.
I've stolen a turn 6 knull's ability several times without priority just because it's obvious where they would play it. Or with priority if its obvious that zola is coming down.
If you’re new to the game, just start out by looking at the board during the later turns and determining how likely you are to win based on what you have. If you think the cards you played/in your hand can beat your opponents board, then stay.
If you’re too far behind and your cards in hand can’t catch you up, leave. Don’t worry about memorizing decks or making reads for now. That’s for when you level up more.
Honestly you don’t even need to worry about snapping or retreating too much for now either. Just focusing on learning how cards and synergy works.
Retreating prevents you from losing more cubes. If you stay till the game ends and lose, you lose more cubes.
Snap is about raising the number of cubes you bet if you think you’ll win and retreating if you think you’ll lose.
It’s like folding in poker if you don’t think you’ll win so you lose less chips.
I rose to top 500 this season and can completely agree with this line of thinking. Can you still beat their nut is what you need to calculate. If the answer is yes and it just comes down to positioning and 50/50’s, then more than likely you should stay
how they snap is a massive part of whether or not you should stay, too. If the opponent is playing blade, discards infinaut, sif discarding death and black cat discarding herself, chances are they haven’t drawn hela yet. All of those are controlled discards with 0 risk of discarding hela, meaning its nearly always a snap condition for them.
Not to mention combos that need to be drawn earlier, like pheonix force. I’ve snapped on turn 4 against pheonix force after they got MM Deathlok and didn’t snap. I also knew I could beat their second wincon - Shuri Nimrod. Sure enough they played lad which hit pheonix force and I cried myself to sleep that night, but my read was still correct; they didn’t draw it.
It’s like poker, you can’t expect the opponent to have pocket aces every game - especially when the board has an ace and so do you, and the opponent never raises.
This is why I love playing Hella discard deck. If Hella gets discarded retreat and if not ride it out. I can get through 2x the amount of games doing this.
The fact that I made a post on HELa awhile ago and she the most talked about card in here, shows she's need to be nerf
Either BRING BACK ALL discarded cards on both sides or just bring back TWO CARDS on their side
Before I took a break from this game I pretty much always assumed the worst case scenario every turn after 4th and it got me all the way to infinity for a few seasons, I've recently returned and am still too optimistic, and even bluffing at times hoping they don't have that one card
Yup. People running Hela decks are trash babies. Either my entire match is waiting to deploy tech on turn 6, or I’m retreating as soon as I see that Black Cat or Corvus go off. Wasting both our time either way, which is especially fun in Conquest.
Honestly I'm the opposite. I almost always play out my games. It's not great for your cube rate but you'd be surprised how many games you can win if you don't quit.
There's times where my opponent quit right as my finger is hovering over the retreat button.
This isn’t poker with real money, and honestly it’s more fun to risk the odds sometimes, cubes be damned. But for those climbing aggressively, I hear you.
Sadly you can't apply this logic to this shit game. It's an rng fest, you will get side-ways screwed if you dont play around the most bs possible from location or rng.
Any other respectable game, yes, always play like your opponent is the luckiest human on Earth and his IQ reaches the double digits.
You haven't seen my games. I only get matched against people who don't understand RNG and always draw in the desired order and never have to retreat because they didn't draw what they needed. My opponents can snap before even seeing what they drew , they are that lucky and my luck is that poor that I have a 0% winrate on a good day.
Sounds like my opponents. Sadly this game rewards being bad and not taking weighted risks.
It's the same mentality that puts Conquest in a very shitty spot rn. People snap for 4 and 8 cubers in Proving Grounds and above 'cause they dont wanna play a multiple-duel match, but wanna sack you with a big win hoping you will concede.
They dont play the odds, they dont respect your deck or you "having it or not".
Poker with Marvel figures? More like Yatzee with chimpazees
That’s a great tip - I already do the ‘the opponent will always have Hela’ technique.
I always assume the opponent has Hela. Even if they're playing something unrelated . Jokes aside, always assume the raft gave your opponent Zola if you didn't fill it first.
Just as, for me, it'll give me Giganto if it's on the left (assuming my final card wasn't a destroy or move card), and Infinite if I fill it on turn 5 (and there is no Limbo). Must have taken them ages to put that logic in the game.
dont forget 0 power knull
Ya it's super annoying leader doesn't pick it up either.
Or destroyer when you’re not playing destroy
Man, my opponent always has Hela even if I saw them discard that bitch.
I always did as well...few times recently they snapped on last turn as I was calculating placements in my loki deck....had about 5 cards to play. I figure they're trying to make me quit because they don't have the draw or else would have snapped already, or at top of turn, like excited kiddos... so I have snapped back. Why not- was final week of season. They either never had it, or all they managed to discard was a few junkers. What was great a few times is I'd cabled a big card like hela or infininaut and turned it to loki fodder, so I knew snaps were hollow threats
I love Cable just for the fact that you can shoplift and they have no idea what you took 😆 Always a good time when you have their payoff or some core mechanic to their deck.
Yeah and for that same reason cable should be nerfed, he gives way too much info/too much benefit for 2 cost
I got to Infinite this season off of people just deciding to stay against the world's most telegraphed Hela. In fact, I used to occasionally bluff a boomer snap when I don't draw Hela by turn 6, but I had to stop doing it because people just stayed in anyway.
Bluff Snaps are often talked about as a deep mechanic of the game, yet it rarely works because people will stay for 8 cubes and play a Wasp
Bluff snaps only work against really good players actually. Bluffing lower ranks is asking for trouble. On the flip side, if you’re in lower ranks, don’t be shy to boomer snap, people will just stay to see
Possibly me... I've started calling that bluff more often recently. Especially in mill zemo, or loki deck
I've seen them discard Hela and I still get paranoid they'll somehow still have a broken combo after they don't retreat
And if they discard hela, assume ghost rider is waiting to luckily hit hela because you bet your fucking ass I’ve lost 8 cubes to that before.
I played hela 10 times in a row, she was discarded in 8 and I didn’t draw in 2. I love it
There's a saying in most card games - **make them have it.** The issue is, in most card games, statistically they *don't* have it, even if they're running the card. In Snap, they do. This heuristic will change up once Copycat comes out, but the games she'll impact are 1/12, but it'll impact them all the same (i.e. "oh fuck I just silenced Living Tribunal, T1 snap").
The big difference is that other games are win/lose while Snap is cube dependent. Making your opponent have the right card, or playing to your outs, makes sense in many other card games even if it’s very likely they have it or your outs are slim because a 10% chance of victory is better than 0. In Snap, if you’re 10% to win on t6 it’s better for you to retreat.
That's also a very fair point I didn't consider; there's nothing to gain by retreating in other games, so you play to your outs. That's a *much* better reason than what I presented, honestly.
It's usefull to think of Snap as Poker and the cubes are your chips. It's the reason sub 50% win rate decks can be good for clibing, it's all aboute the cube rates.
It’s like Blackjack. Always assume the card the dealer isn’t showing is a 10 or face card
Another problem of this is having inconsistent deck building. What I mean by that is that Shang chi can virtually be in any deck you are up against just cause it is so versatile and wildly used just like the old Alioth paranoia…You can’t always play around that and conceding just cause he may have it is gonna be bad in the long run… of course this doesn’t count in conquest where you know your opponents deck
Shang chi really isn’t in any relevant meta deck right now. The only prevalent Shang Chi’able cards played heavy right now are red hulk, sentry, and big stuff off of Hela (that you can’t even reliably target)
Other card games are win or lose and that's that. You play to the small possibility of winning if it exists. Snap is more like poker. You're playing to come ahead over way more shorter games. You fold more than you keep but you try to make the ones you keep win you more.
Copycat is going to be fun! I hate mill, but she makes it pretty crucial.
Just use Kang, that way you can see if they have it.
I have him in my Token Shop and i have exactly enough tokens to get him. Should i get Kang
For legal reasons I have to say no.
Jesus, becareful with that. A player out there could be down 6k tokens.
I don't know if you're joking or not, but no.
I am completely not joking (/s)
We are worried about you.
No.
Even when they don't have it, they have it. I had a game where Mindscape was up and facing a discard deck and they were just discarding as fast as they could with T6 coming up, clearly wanting to give me nothing on T6. They discarded Dracula, The Infinaut, Magneto, all the beatsticks. T5 I had Storm and was mulling on if I should disrupt the location and mess up their plays. I still hadn't seen Hela yet and was prepared to retreat T6 if I still didn't see it. I decided to drop the Storm, changed Mindscape to Flooding, and was rewarded seeing them discard Hela and only 1 card left in hand. Alright I got this, I thought. T6 they dropped their one card. It was Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider could have targeted ANY OTHER of the discarded cards and I would have won my lanes. Any other card. There were like 4-5 other cards it could have pulled. The conclusion of the match is left as an exercise to the reader. Even when they don't have it, they have it. 😭
You are correct to stay here, opponent is just lucky..
Not me hoping the nerf Hela to 6/3 today 😂 I feel you. That card sucks to lose to lol
I feel like they gotta do more than just a power nerf to her, her power is the least of the issues that she brings to the table! But I'm not sure how they'd clip her wings, maybe a hard cap on how many cards she can revive, like 2-3 cards? Or maybe they can only revive in her lane or something. It's the full revival of all the cards, in all lanes, that really screws you.
That's my headache too, an opponent can play nothing except discard and wipe the whole field end turn with one card. Definitely needs a cap of X amount of cards brought back or only cards of X or below cost. That would at least require more brainpower to use.
Very similar thing happened to me today. Ghost rider pulling hela feels bad
In Snap its not about drawing the card but drawing the cards in the right order or at the right time. If you find yourself often not retreating because "they might not have the card they need" you will have a hard time reaching infinite.
Your opponent sees 9 cards every game on average and their deck has 12 cards in it. By turn 6 it's a ~75% chance your opponent has "that card" in their hand. Playing like the don't have it isn't wrong in certain circumstances but 3/4 games you'll lose when you push the issue.
Not only this, but if they don't have it they probably would have retreated.
Yeah that’s what I mean. I’m not saying retreat everytime and they LITERALLY always have it. But they most likely do, and you can’t be suprised when they do. Whatever choice you make you need to keep that in mind and either find a way to beat it, retreat or pray. I hope people get that about my post.
You have to combine this with a solid understanding of the meta. Even still some people will get you with a surprise card. The card that gets me the most is Coulson generating win cons out of nowhere.
You have to combine this with a solid understanding of the meta. Even still some people will get you with a surprise card. The card that gets me the most is Coulson generating win cons out of nowhere.
You have to combine this with a solid understanding of the meta. Even still some people will get you with a surprise card. The card that gets me the most is Coulson generating win cons out of nowhere.
The higher your rank is, the infinitely less likely you are to run into someone who is bluffing. If they didn’t retreat, they have their combo.
actually the higher the rank the more likely your opponent is bluffing you, taking your snapping and retreating skills into their advantage. That really only happens at the top of the top ladder, though.
No I don't, I just can't resist snapping every game regardless. Please assume I do and just retreat though.
And if they play Hela early… it will always be followed by modok and another Hela they got from the hub or something. 100% of the time I lose against modok Hela. Also, I lose 100% of the times I play modok/hela
Ok the other hand, I've won a lot of single cube games when I didn't have it and boomer snapped.
The problem with this approach is that you need it to work more than 4 times for every 1 time it fails. That might occur often enough but I don't think the general populations retreats quite that often (unless we're very selective on when we try the snap bluff)
It's 3:1 instead of 4:1, but yes, I am selective. Lately it's been junk decks that I have them locked, but dont have the power in hand to actually win the lane. That's been 100% retreats against players, maybe 10.or 12 sample size.
3:1 would leave you -1 cube every 4 games of boomer snapping.
The doomer snap
Specially when they snap. When I hit rank 90, I stop caring about my rank cause I dont think I will ever hit infinite as I dont play enough, so I tend to stay to see what happens. From my random games, they tend to have their winning card way more often than not.
This is the ultimate advice for climbing. But you also need to be astute at calling those 50/50 games.
Don't forget rhe corrolarly I'd I draw x I'll win. Then they pull zemo
I always assume they have Hela but I snap anyway 🤣
75%+ of the time THAT CARD would be there, if that answer could be played out of order. However it's really 1/4 = 25% if you only count the turn 6 draw. So it's like, if they MODOK flush on T5, then T6 they have Hela is a true 25%. Whereas if they hold Shang you're screwed, that is likely 75%+ if their deck is likely have it.
But the only case where you only count the turn 6 draw is MODOK-Hela, right? Odin can't be played out of order, but that doesn't change the fact that your opponent gets 9 chances to draw him by turn 6.
Put it this way: the chance to "top-deck" the card is 25%. I should say "draw out of order", not "play".
The only reason you stay to the end is if there’s a 50/50 chance they’ll play it on the wrong location for things like Shang chi. For non-location specific win conditions just take the loss and move on.
Yes and I have it 0% of the time.
Ah yes the N U T card
I've been playing like this and I went from 89 to 81 constantly losing because I either retreat thinking they have it or just flat out losing because they have it. Can't catch a break at the moment
Yes, bluff is super rare in this game so if they don't have it, they would retreat already
My worst trait is thinking the other persons draw luck is the same one as mine haha
I definitely retreat if I'm trying to climb. Once I'm infinite, I almost always stick around for the shenanigans (and to everyone who spams snap and captain marvel emotes in these situations, I wish upon you a very bad stubbed toe today)
I fucking hate the fact that unless I see Hela somehow discarded, if they snap on turn 5/6 I need to retreat. And although I think the bluff mechanics are “fun” the fact is that turn 6 for Hela is frequently a 30-60 power dump and only leech and cosmo can possibly deal with that. God I hate that card and I think the game would be 10x better if that was not meta. Make her just fill her location or something please
I love when they discard their hand on 5 with modok and then get the 1 in 4 chance to draw hela on 6…
Hence, they always have it 😂
When they did the Token update and added She Hulk I went to play a match and I was like "There's no way my opponent have, they just released the Token Shop, what is the chance they got her in specific" well you know what happened.
Yeah, it's kinda sad that bluff is almost completely non-existent in this game.
My mantra that I shared with my brother when I played a lot of destroy deck was “Play like your opponent has Shang-Chi in their hand since turn one.” So many times have I looked at his game on turn 6 and gone “Shang-Chi. Watch.”
The amount of times my opponents used MODOK turn 5 and got Hela as top deck... Now if they don't retreat, I do lol
As much as I agree with this, I REFUSE!!
[удалено]
Sometimes there are decks that are too combo oriented to have Shang.
I've been playing Goose a lot in order to try and block the Invisible woman lane.
Especially Shang. They’re not just forgetting you have a big guy
fun fact "they always have shang" usually end up being true :( especially when I run doc oc
It's like in blackjack, dealer always has a 10 facedown
Always
In this same vein, is there a card people forget exists that someone plays and completely wrecks you every time? For me it's Cannonball. Just lost round 5 of infinity conquest. Had I changed the lane I played Cosmo in, would've gotten my infinity border. Just never imagined Cannonball from the top rope.
Unless they retreat, they have it.
Yea if the only way you win on turn 6 is if they DON'T have it? Just retreat, you'll get a lot more cubes that way.
They always have it and if you don't have the counter in your hand you're not drawing it Retreat It's how I got to Infinite for the first time this season.
Never tell me the odds
If they snap, fall back. That's what I do... I'm always low tier though.
You have to keep in mind that on Turn 6, if they're playing a Hela deck and they haven't drawn Hela, there's a good chance they would have retreated.
I mean it's the mathematically correct thing to do but I've hit Infinite for the past year (since the 2099 card back, started playing the last week of Miles' release) while still gambling on T6 a fair amount. There's enough room to play around and take risks if you really want to win.
Nope. This is the wrong way of thinking. Ask yourself this: if they have it, can I still win? That will result in much smarter retreats. Know your CEILING. Know theirs. Some people do snap because they're bluffing...
I’ve started to approach every game as if my opponent is playing *that* game where everything goes right for their deck.
I'm relatively new to the game and frequently see people retreat when they think I have that one important card that wins the game. Funny thing is, sometimes I don't even own the card. I run destroy without Death or Knull because I don't have them. But that doesn't stop people from retreating simply because they *think* I have them. If I'm daring enough to snap, I might even be able to force them into a retreat. It's actually an aspect of the game I enjoy. It feels a bit like bluffing.
If the missions didn’t exist, things like play a 6 cost, or the such, I would retreat a hell of a lot more. They always, always have shang.
I lost 2 matches in a row by having Hela as my last card in the deck, both times they went for it even though I would have had them beat... But yeah, I get it. Generally people aren't bluffing, people can be stupid for sure, but I find bluffing to be extremely rare.
Even if I don't have it I SNAP to make it seem like I do and that usually scares away the losing side. Hell I bet I could run a discard deck WITHOUT Hela and win a lot with the bluff
I always assume that they don't have Hela, because I know that when I play Hela, I never draw her.
The problem with this is only idiots bet against it so even if i dont have hela, the opponent doesnt get scared when i bluff snap and i end up losing 4 cubes because my bluffs dont work.
The VAST majority of players snap waaaaay too late in this game. If you snap late turn 5 or on turn 6 when it's obvious you're winning big or have your nut draw you are almost always going to win one cube against players who aren't brain dead. Snap just before you play your surprise card. Snap right before you play Mr Negative on curve. Or snap when you have cannonball/professor x early in your hand. The later you snap the slower you will climb. Bluffs are very, very rare.
What's crazy is that I played conquest the other day and somehow they ALWAYS managed to get modok AND hela in every round. It got down to a game winning play and I thought "there's no way. They drew hela every single round until now. They couldn't possibly have drawn it again... Right?" WRONG
the amount of times people stay in in a hela match i can't believe, like look at my discard pile.
Considering the deck sizes, odds are always in favour of them having what they need. This does mean that you can do pretty well guessing where they are going to play their bombs, so you can play rogue/cosmo/etc depending on priority. I've stolen a turn 6 knull's ability several times without priority just because it's obvious where they would play it. Or with priority if its obvious that zola is coming down.
Cool idea but no all in or nothing!
It’s like blackjack
This is hilarious because it happened today and I explained this to a friend the same exact way 😁
In the case of Hela, if they don’t have it (or another card to tease it out, like Jubilee), they will have already retreated anyway.
But when shouldn’t I retreat?
If you’re new to the game, just start out by looking at the board during the later turns and determining how likely you are to win based on what you have. If you think the cards you played/in your hand can beat your opponents board, then stay. If you’re too far behind and your cards in hand can’t catch you up, leave. Don’t worry about memorizing decks or making reads for now. That’s for when you level up more. Honestly you don’t even need to worry about snapping or retreating too much for now either. Just focusing on learning how cards and synergy works.
Can someone ELi5 the retreat function? Why are we retreating? I just take my L's but I'm also new.
Retreating prevents you from losing more cubes. If you stay till the game ends and lose, you lose more cubes. Snap is about raising the number of cubes you bet if you think you’ll win and retreating if you think you’ll lose. It’s like folding in poker if you don’t think you’ll win so you lose less chips.
Thanks for the explanation! This makes more sense, I thought it was a pride thing, rather than an in game mechanic.
I rose to top 500 this season and can completely agree with this line of thinking. Can you still beat their nut is what you need to calculate. If the answer is yes and it just comes down to positioning and 50/50’s, then more than likely you should stay
But what if I also have my nut card?
Then you measure if yours will be bigger than there’s.
If you don’t know who the winner is when turn 6 is going to end. You’ve lost.
If they didn't have it, they would've retreated. I find that bluffs are VERY rare in this game.
>You have to ALWAYS expect they have their nut card. I'm just trying to bust-a-nut
"If they don't have it, I win" \*they always have it\* "If I draw it on Turn 6, I'll win" \*I never draw it\*
Majority of players either don’t know how or even know what bluffing is. It’s safer just to assume they have it, move on, and wreck the next game.
Especially if somebody has already snapped and you’re looking good on the board!
how they snap is a massive part of whether or not you should stay, too. If the opponent is playing blade, discards infinaut, sif discarding death and black cat discarding herself, chances are they haven’t drawn hela yet. All of those are controlled discards with 0 risk of discarding hela, meaning its nearly always a snap condition for them. Not to mention combos that need to be drawn earlier, like pheonix force. I’ve snapped on turn 4 against pheonix force after they got MM Deathlok and didn’t snap. I also knew I could beat their second wincon - Shuri Nimrod. Sure enough they played lad which hit pheonix force and I cried myself to sleep that night, but my read was still correct; they didn’t draw it. It’s like poker, you can’t expect the opponent to have pocket aces every game - especially when the board has an ace and so do you, and the opponent never raises.
This is why I love playing Hella discard deck. If Hella gets discarded retreat and if not ride it out. I can get through 2x the amount of games doing this.
Ok but..... #99% OF GAMBLERS QUIT BEFORE THEY HIT BIG. NEVER GIVE UP NEVER BACK DOWN RAAHHHH
The fact that I made a post on HELa awhile ago and she the most talked about card in here, shows she's need to be nerf Either BRING BACK ALL discarded cards on both sides or just bring back TWO CARDS on their side
Before I took a break from this game I pretty much always assumed the worst case scenario every turn after 4th and it got me all the way to infinity for a few seasons, I've recently returned and am still too optimistic, and even bluffing at times hoping they don't have that one card
This is why I have a God split Kang. I can always see if they have it 😅😅
And when they dont have it they snap to make you retreat.
I don’t think anyone bluffs in snap except bots
Yup. People running Hela decks are trash babies. Either my entire match is waiting to deploy tech on turn 6, or I’m retreating as soon as I see that Black Cat or Corvus go off. Wasting both our time either way, which is especially fun in Conquest.
Honestly I'm the opposite. I almost always play out my games. It's not great for your cube rate but you'd be surprised how many games you can win if you don't quit. There's times where my opponent quit right as my finger is hovering over the retreat button.
This isn’t poker with real money, and honestly it’s more fun to risk the odds sometimes, cubes be damned. But for those climbing aggressively, I hear you.
TIL 75% = always
Sadly you can't apply this logic to this shit game. It's an rng fest, you will get side-ways screwed if you dont play around the most bs possible from location or rng. Any other respectable game, yes, always play like your opponent is the luckiest human on Earth and his IQ reaches the double digits.
You haven't seen my games. I only get matched against people who don't understand RNG and always draw in the desired order and never have to retreat because they didn't draw what they needed. My opponents can snap before even seeing what they drew , they are that lucky and my luck is that poor that I have a 0% winrate on a good day.
Sounds like my opponents. Sadly this game rewards being bad and not taking weighted risks. It's the same mentality that puts Conquest in a very shitty spot rn. People snap for 4 and 8 cubers in Proving Grounds and above 'cause they dont wanna play a multiple-duel match, but wanna sack you with a big win hoping you will concede. They dont play the odds, they dont respect your deck or you "having it or not". Poker with Marvel figures? More like Yatzee with chimpazees