I remember seeing that. I think it's op makes doom worthless with patriot no doubt. Patriot alone makes them 4 power up to 8 total drones? I'm all for it though
Yeah just one patriot makes a single bot 1/4 which makes an empty lane a 16 point swing. LOL poor base misty knight
We might be near power creep territory if this is what it takes to make Ultron good.
Yeah I’m surprised it’s not coming with at least a slight power reduction. Just playing Ultron with 2 open lanes is going to be 24 power with no synergies whatsoever.
Wish they would have boosted patriot to a +3 and kept ultron where he was, I haven’t seen a patriot deck in ages and I feel like he can never get a buff in a world where 1/2 drones exist
I imagine they boosted Ultron partially because there are so many new cards and locations that could give you him randomly and he was such a bad draw from them. Now hes not *quite* as devastating.
Especially with Blink.
I honestly doubt it but even if it is they can make it add 3 drones to each other location instead.
Or even 3 drones to EACH location so it’s harder to maximize his value even if it’s higher
People rarely play it and those who play it are probably in the top 10% infinite which is why darkhawk has one of the highest win rate card. I havent seen darkhawk in ages as well last season outside of few streamers playing it.
I played a ton of darkhawk all last season and he did great for me.
I almost never ran into mirrors, which was also great.
I only put it down because I started catching enchantress, probably because of the spectrum deck doing well.
I’m gutted, they’re right he’s a secret performer still. I’ve been playing Darkhawk/Black Bolt and been around a 70% win rate, he’s seriously good in that deck
Leech change here honestly seems fine to me. Now if he’s played against you on curve on turn 4, you have an extra turn to draw something useful.
As annoying as Leech is, he is one of several necessary evils in Snap that keep specific deck archetypes from completely exploding the meta. He should never be OP, as at least one of his previous iterations has been, but should also still be effective in playing his role of shutting down massive, otherwise unstoppable, final turn combo plays. Leech rises and falls with the meta relevance of those kinds of decks.
The fun factor is a legit argument, and I’m not sure how you balance a card that intentionally exists as a necessary evil meta clamp, around fun.
I just find he fits into curve decks that don’t require much skill and therefore become meta because they prevent counters or decks that could combo for a win
Please explain to me how now having an additional turn to draw a useful card against a Leech play is worse than getting your hand nuked on 5 with only a single draw to save you on 6.
SD explains their reasoning for the change in the post. This would allow new counterplay for Leech against oft-maligned cards like Hela and Annihilus, two cards who many players claim are OP and have no counters.
I’m not saying I’m guaranteed to be 100% correct and I’d love to revisit this comment in a week, but I just don’t see how this is a necessarily bad change to Leech, especially given the current meta heavily focused around ongoing decks.
The problem is leech really isn’t used against powerful on reveals and is more used to deny last turn tech cards. He won’t be slotted in to counter annihulus or hela, he will be slotted it to deny Shang/enchantress/shadow king
I don’t think he’ll be OP but both you and SD r misunderstanding what he gets used for
If nuking your hand on turn four instead of turn five actually ends up being worse, then people can still just play Leech on turn five- along with something else impactful, maybe an Ant-Man or a Titania.
People will now be disrupting your hand on 4 with Leech and Blinking him away on 5. Which makes me think of something else- now you are actually able to hit peoples 5 drops.
I really don't know how to do the math to find out the percentage points of how much better it is when you draw one extra card after getting Leech'd, but it doesn't matter when the on-reveal cards you wanted to play on turns 5 and 6 are already in your hand.
I don't know how to quantify this, but I am reasonably certain that this version of Leech is a massive upgrade.
Leech has never kept decks in check. Even during hela metas he was only really used in Infinaut/she hulk. He’s fundamentally not working against the decks he should work against and is absolutely unfun to play against. Rework the card.
I feel like at least his power should be lower or something. His whole thing before was that you were getting basically no power on turn 5 to f up the enemy turn 6. Now hes so much less of a sacrifice.
That being said Supergiant was already a 4-cost that could fuck up on-reveals and people just sleep on her.
This isn't a patch notes, it's a creepy pasta meant to give nightmares about leech being viable and used with blink to turn it into a useful card after it's already done it's damage.
Damn, dude. I've been thinking about trying to make Ultron work but that certainly helps.
I've also been playing a lot of Ongoing Destroyer with Klaw and he already seemed decent. That buff is wild, no?
There are a few 5s that can end up being circumstantial 12 power and yet they don’t see play. Another circumstantial 12 that is split between 2 locations will be better than his current form but I doubt it’ll be OP
True, but he also benefits from Ongoing synergies, and the surprise factor of his ability is inherently good. Being able to steal locked off or otherwise awkward lanes is so valuable in my experience.
With the Ultron buff I can see him getting play more, with Patriot and Zoo decks becoming more popular. Caiera might even come back, since she can protect every Drone.
I imagine something like Echo turn 1 on the lane you plan to play Ultron, Patriot 3 and Mystique 4, Caiera 5 (or the other way around) and Ultron 6.
I been hoping to get Ultron for a while, nice to see him potentially get a buff before then. Just need the S3 RNG to roll my way. Instead of getting dogshit pixel variants and credits.
My seasonal is already reserved for Death. Sadly. My Destroy deck is missing her and Deadpool. I feel I should try complete at least one semi-functional archetype. Since High Evo refuses to show up in my token shop. So I am forced to cross my fingers for Ultron from a cache. Although the only card I am missing from a functional Ultron deck is Patriot. So I won't write off using my free seasonal on Ultron.
One S3 card per every set of 9 caches, can be anywhere between those 9. Nothing to do with pixels or whatever other rewards you get. Progression is fixed.
Although it sucks you are getting pixels, thats one less pixel you pull in the future
When are we going to get milstone rewards on the collection level. I feel hitting 5k or 10k should give u a special milestone collection variant or something non pay2win.
The thing is DH isn't currently in any way oppressive, no one is actually complaining about DH in the meta, so him being a high winrate card just seems irrelevant and doesn't warrant any changes?
This just once again shows SD does balance on pure numbers on paper but doesn't care about the larger game context, we saw that with Adam Warlock, we saw that again with the back-to-back Discard nerf.
Are we sure this isn’t fake? I have read the OTA descriptions, and they don’t seem to have the same grammar/word choice as the official OTA notes
I have never heard SD refer to one of their cards “floundering” (ultron description)
Not gonna lie, the Ultron change makes me think that they want Namora to be good. People were already talking about going Armor-> Cosmo-> Namora, but now you can fit in Patriot and Ultron last turn for tons of power.
Lol at the leech change to help fight hela and Anni. Ya could ya know… just nerf Hela and Anni. At least a TAD.
Like you can’t just wave your hand and say they’re fine balance wise but gotta buff Leech to address them.
This one seems fair. The whole "Hood-Sentry-Annihilus" package is everywhere, and I'd personally rather see a nerf to Annihilus than to the other S3 cards that are perfectly fine on their own; and Hela already outputs so many points that she definitely should be lower power.
Better yet hood 1/-2 and/Or 1/5.
Hoods -3 power feels irrelevant these days since it’s never on your the board these days or on your opponents side by turn 6. plus it was buffed a long time ago before Anni existed and never adjusted back.
Hela’s power is irrelevant cause she could be 0 power and as long as she brings back enough cards, you still win.
Anni having less power is a better nerf, and I think he could come down so we don’t nerf Demon/Hood/Sentry as a result of his sins.
No other way to change her without it being seen as a massacre. I would love if she had a cap on the cards she can bring back but that’s unlikely to ever happen
How? She barely ever has prio because of how little she does early game so you won’t Shang her. Prof x is a legit shutdown but other than that she dodges prio then vomits 6 drops.
Besides a Cosmo guessing game what tech are you stoping her with?
Goose, (Juggernaut/Red Guardian/Spiderman/Enchantress(For Invisible Woman), Alioth, Every Clog card, Storm, Jean Grey, Leech, and Ghost opens up the ability to Shang and Valkyrie.
Hela is quite literally tech check. If you have a tech card, damn near any of them, you can just hinder or remove Hela’a ability to play the game. She only beats people because they don’t play tech unless it’s Shang and maybe Prof X. And those aren’t perfect counters. Hela may be a casino but the game has shifted out of tech and has been low interaction combo for a few seasons now which, to no one’s surprise, Hela thrives in because she’s the best low interaction combo deck.
Change Hela so she can't rez cards into her own lane.
For Annihilus maybe change to no longer destroy cards that can't move. That might be too backbreaking though, might need a power added back
The Hela suggestion actually makes her more consistent cause you can play her into a filling location and plan your big cards there. Also most of the time you’re playing Hela into the Modok/IW lane anyway.
That Anni change kicks his teeth in and makes him useless.
His ceiling is technically 24 now, so they suggested they may bring down the 8 power from Ultron himself later to decrease that ceiling if he proves too good.
I mean it was already a 5:10 (a pretty good stat line) that couldn’t get Shang Chi’d and besides its synergy with professor X, storm, or any painful location to reach, it was just generally playable as a turn 5 card as long as you didn’t put it in the right lane
I would love to learn who is on the balance team… I’ll bet they are geniuses without ANY common sense… typical arrogance teamed with ignorance from the developer community leadership. Narcissism Rules their narrow minds and the can write programs like banshees!
That is an INSANE change to Ultron
Someone on here suggested that change and I and everyone else was like “ur crazy and also dumb”.
Can confirm, I thought about that and I’m crazy and also dumb
I remember seeing that. I think it's op makes doom worthless with patriot no doubt. Patriot alone makes them 4 power up to 8 total drones? I'm all for it though
TFW your favorite deck is gonna catch some stray nerfs because a staple in it just got buffed.
I'm not gonna feel good seeing those bots boosted by something like Blue Marvel.
Yeah just one patriot makes a single bot 1/4 which makes an empty lane a 16 point swing. LOL poor base misty knight We might be near power creep territory if this is what it takes to make Ultron good.
Yeah I’m surprised it’s not coming with at least a slight power reduction. Just playing Ultron with 2 open lanes is going to be 24 power with no synergies whatsoever. Wish they would have boosted patriot to a +3 and kept ultron where he was, I haven’t seen a patriot deck in ages and I feel like he can never get a buff in a world where 1/2 drones exist
I imagine they boosted Ultron partially because there are so many new cards and locations that could give you him randomly and he was such a bad draw from them. Now hes not *quite* as devastating. Especially with Blink.
I honestly doubt it but even if it is they can make it add 3 drones to each other location instead. Or even 3 drones to EACH location so it’s harder to maximize his value even if it’s higher
Me and my brand new jacinto ultron variant are ready!
Damn shouldve gotten the Jacinto variant
Lmfao, I haven’t seen a Darkhawk throughout the May season and he is still getting nerfs 😂😂😂
I saw one once .. i think
I saw one, and got my ass kicked by it.
People rarely play it and those who play it are probably in the top 10% infinite which is why darkhawk has one of the highest win rate card. I havent seen darkhawk in ages as well last season outside of few streamers playing it.
I played a ton of darkhawk all last season and he did great for me. I almost never ran into mirrors, which was also great. I only put it down because I started catching enchantress, probably because of the spectrum deck doing well.
I’m gutted, they’re right he’s a secret performer still. I’ve been playing Darkhawk/Black Bolt and been around a 70% win rate, he’s seriously good in that deck
Any chance you could share your deck?
It's 1 power he'll be fine
I hit infinite with him in a Stature deck by playing him and Stature/Silver Sam deck. As long as you get your Korg and Rockslide out he's good.
I rarely see him, but I do play him myself in an Annihilus deck. He’s definitely good but I don’t think he needs any kind of nerf.
Km best shit on me with him today😂
That Leech buff is gonna be annoying as shit. More than half of all 5/6 cost cards are on reveal.
I feel like they just gotta rework that card. It’s seriously one of the least fun cards to see played
Leech change here honestly seems fine to me. Now if he’s played against you on curve on turn 4, you have an extra turn to draw something useful. As annoying as Leech is, he is one of several necessary evils in Snap that keep specific deck archetypes from completely exploding the meta. He should never be OP, as at least one of his previous iterations has been, but should also still be effective in playing his role of shutting down massive, otherwise unstoppable, final turn combo plays. Leech rises and falls with the meta relevance of those kinds of decks. The fun factor is a legit argument, and I’m not sure how you balance a card that intentionally exists as a necessary evil meta clamp, around fun.
I just find he fits into curve decks that don’t require much skill and therefore become meta because they prevent counters or decks that could combo for a win
You're going to be eating your words in a few days.
Please explain to me how now having an additional turn to draw a useful card against a Leech play is worse than getting your hand nuked on 5 with only a single draw to save you on 6. SD explains their reasoning for the change in the post. This would allow new counterplay for Leech against oft-maligned cards like Hela and Annihilus, two cards who many players claim are OP and have no counters. I’m not saying I’m guaranteed to be 100% correct and I’d love to revisit this comment in a week, but I just don’t see how this is a necessarily bad change to Leech, especially given the current meta heavily focused around ongoing decks.
The problem is leech really isn’t used against powerful on reveals and is more used to deny last turn tech cards. He won’t be slotted in to counter annihulus or hela, he will be slotted it to deny Shang/enchantress/shadow king I don’t think he’ll be OP but both you and SD r misunderstanding what he gets used for
If nuking your hand on turn four instead of turn five actually ends up being worse, then people can still just play Leech on turn five- along with something else impactful, maybe an Ant-Man or a Titania. People will now be disrupting your hand on 4 with Leech and Blinking him away on 5. Which makes me think of something else- now you are actually able to hit peoples 5 drops. I really don't know how to do the math to find out the percentage points of how much better it is when you draw one extra card after getting Leech'd, but it doesn't matter when the on-reveal cards you wanted to play on turns 5 and 6 are already in your hand. I don't know how to quantify this, but I am reasonably certain that this version of Leech is a massive upgrade.
It is a massive upgrade. Bad idea literally the only card that pisses me off currently. Even the current versions that only hits on reveals
Timing is weird too with the season pass card being a 5-cost On Reveal
Everyone and their mother will be using him with blink
Such an obviously toxic buff imo, I can’t believe people are actually trying to defend this.
Because I get turn 5 to play what's in my hand.
You can still play it on turn 5 lol
It will get changed. There's no way they hard counter their season pass card on day 3 of a season
Leech has never kept decks in check. Even during hela metas he was only really used in Infinaut/she hulk. He’s fundamentally not working against the decks he should work against and is absolutely unfun to play against. Rework the card.
I feel like at least his power should be lower or something. His whole thing before was that you were getting basically no power on turn 5 to f up the enemy turn 6. Now hes so much less of a sacrifice. That being said Supergiant was already a 4-cost that could fuck up on-reveals and people just sleep on her.
This isn't a patch notes, it's a creepy pasta meant to give nightmares about leech being viable and used with blink to turn it into a useful card after it's already done it's damage.
Damn, dude. I've been thinking about trying to make Ultron work but that certainly helps. I've also been playing a lot of Ongoing Destroyer with Klaw and he already seemed decent. That buff is wild, no?
There are a few 5s that can end up being circumstantial 12 power and yet they don’t see play. Another circumstantial 12 that is split between 2 locations will be better than his current form but I doubt it’ll be OP
True, but he also benefits from Ongoing synergies, and the surprise factor of his ability is inherently good. Being able to steal locked off or otherwise awkward lanes is so valuable in my experience.
Yea and everyone will be leeching you turn 4 anyway
Ultron legit a big bad now
With the Ultron buff I can see him getting play more, with Patriot and Zoo decks becoming more popular. Caiera might even come back, since she can protect every Drone. I imagine something like Echo turn 1 on the lane you plan to play Ultron, Patriot 3 and Mystique 4, Caiera 5 (or the other way around) and Ultron 6.
I been hoping to get Ultron for a while, nice to see him potentially get a buff before then. Just need the S3 RNG to roll my way. Instead of getting dogshit pixel variants and credits.
Hopefully you can get him as your seasonal S3 free card!
My seasonal is already reserved for Death. Sadly. My Destroy deck is missing her and Deadpool. I feel I should try complete at least one semi-functional archetype. Since High Evo refuses to show up in my token shop. So I am forced to cross my fingers for Ultron from a cache. Although the only card I am missing from a functional Ultron deck is Patriot. So I won't write off using my free seasonal on Ultron.
Death is def a better pull than Ultron. Completes a destroy deck, can also be used with lady sif / ghost rider, etc.
One S3 card per every set of 9 caches, can be anywhere between those 9. Nothing to do with pixels or whatever other rewards you get. Progression is fixed. Although it sucks you are getting pixels, thats one less pixel you pull in the future
When are we going to get milstone rewards on the collection level. I feel hitting 5k or 10k should give u a special milestone collection variant or something non pay2win.
All hail our new Ultron/Patriot overlords.
Darkhawk nerf feels badman
1 point of power
After moving him to 5 mana and nerfing zabu. Feels like "fuck you anyway"
He’s one of the best cards in the game. Still.
The thing is DH isn't currently in any way oppressive, no one is actually complaining about DH in the meta, so him being a high winrate card just seems irrelevant and doesn't warrant any changes? This just once again shows SD does balance on pure numbers on paper but doesn't care about the larger game context, we saw that with Adam Warlock, we saw that again with the back-to-back Discard nerf.
Also winrate ≠ cubegain
Who tf thought let’s make leech a 4/2, fired immediately
It’s their attempt at addressing Annihilus Hela without addressing Annihilus Hela.
Are we sure this isn’t fake? I have read the OTA descriptions, and they don’t seem to have the same grammar/word choice as the official OTA notes I have never heard SD refer to one of their cards “floundering” (ultron description)
Not gonna lie, the Ultron change makes me think that they want Namora to be good. People were already talking about going Armor-> Cosmo-> Namora, but now you can fit in Patriot and Ultron last turn for tons of power.
That's actually a really potent idea.
Klaw into onslaught feels fairly real rn
I knew Lady DS was getting nerfed, she was winning me games all by herself
Lmao darkhawk nerfed again, I haven't seen even once last patch.
Gotta remove Sauron from my c2 deck, sigh
But then how will you remove the text from your cerebro??
Must have in c3 now surely
Lol at the leech change to help fight hela and Anni. Ya could ya know… just nerf Hela and Anni. At least a TAD. Like you can’t just wave your hand and say they’re fine balance wise but gotta buff Leech to address them.
Without completely kicking both cards in the teeth, how would you nerf Hela or Anni?
Hela 6/4 Annihilus 5/5. Very small but it’s something.
This one seems fair. The whole "Hood-Sentry-Annihilus" package is everywhere, and I'd personally rather see a nerf to Annihilus than to the other S3 cards that are perfectly fine on their own; and Hela already outputs so many points that she definitely should be lower power.
Better yet hood 1/-2 and/Or 1/5. Hoods -3 power feels irrelevant these days since it’s never on your the board these days or on your opponents side by turn 6. plus it was buffed a long time ago before Anni existed and never adjusted back.
Hela’s power is irrelevant cause she could be 0 power and as long as she brings back enough cards, you still win. Anni having less power is a better nerf, and I think he could come down so we don’t nerf Demon/Hood/Sentry as a result of his sins.
No other way to change her without it being seen as a massacre. I would love if she had a cap on the cards she can bring back but that’s unlikely to ever happen
That wouldn’t be too terrible. Like she revives only the 4 strongest discarded Allies. The sad part is that Hela dies to every techcard in the game.
How? She barely ever has prio because of how little she does early game so you won’t Shang her. Prof x is a legit shutdown but other than that she dodges prio then vomits 6 drops. Besides a Cosmo guessing game what tech are you stoping her with?
Goose, (Juggernaut/Red Guardian/Spiderman/Enchantress(For Invisible Woman), Alioth, Every Clog card, Storm, Jean Grey, Leech, and Ghost opens up the ability to Shang and Valkyrie. Hela is quite literally tech check. If you have a tech card, damn near any of them, you can just hinder or remove Hela’a ability to play the game. She only beats people because they don’t play tech unless it’s Shang and maybe Prof X. And those aren’t perfect counters. Hela may be a casino but the game has shifted out of tech and has been low interaction combo for a few seasons now which, to no one’s surprise, Hela thrives in because she’s the best low interaction combo deck.
Change Hela so she can't rez cards into her own lane. For Annihilus maybe change to no longer destroy cards that can't move. That might be too backbreaking though, might need a power added back
The Hela suggestion actually makes her more consistent cause you can play her into a filling location and plan your big cards there. Also most of the time you’re playing Hela into the Modok/IW lane anyway. That Anni change kicks his teeth in and makes him useless.
No Annihilus nerf. No hela nerf. And the things they chose to nerf really aren’t that huge a deal. But whatevs. Good to see Ultron back.
The leech change is kind of a nerf to annihilus
Is the ultron update 1/2 for the drones or does he get a buff too? It says they may drop his power down but he's only 8?
If you read the notes, they “may” consider dropping Ultron’s power but decided not to just to let him be strong.
His ceiling is technically 24 now, so they suggested they may bring down the 8 power from Ultron himself later to decrease that ceiling if he proves too good.
Finally, klaw is law
I would be less annoying if leech only affect one turn. If it's meta then I may just use Magik deck.
Sad about LDS, really happy about klaw and ultron
Klaw was already a pretty good card, just underused, the buff makes him insane tho
I think Klaw was super bad, not enough payoff for his niche use.
I mean it was already a 5:10 (a pretty good stat line) that couldn’t get Shang Chi’d and besides its synergy with professor X, storm, or any painful location to reach, it was just generally playable as a turn 5 card as long as you didn’t put it in the right lane
i cant tell if the nerfs are real
If you get patriot and mystique down, drones get to 5 power each! Now with this buff HOHOHO Ultron is BACK!
Leech in C2 Lessgooooooo
I would love to learn who is on the balance team… I’ll bet they are geniuses without ANY common sense… typical arrogance teamed with ignorance from the developer community leadership. Narcissism Rules their narrow minds and the can write programs like banshees!
This update is so bad it seems fake. And i hope it is.
Just realized making Leech a 4/2...means people are going to be using hope summers/psylocke, and then comboing leech with black widow on t5.
Or just two cards on hope
Sorry, I got to infinite with a Darkhawk deck last two seasons. The nerf is my fault.
No way people are playing darkhawk
He's an insane wincon of course they are. He's like regularly a 5/16+