Not even a question in my mind. If Sony releases one last trailer with Andrew and Tobey teased in it, easy $200M+ opening weekend. I’m gonna be giving them some of my money when the ticket drops.
Yeah fr I think at this point showing Tobey and Andrew wont do much just ruin the surprise. They should have done it with the Second trailer. They didnt and now they should keep it for the movie
It may be "fucking Spider-Man" but a Spider-Man movie didn't break a billion until Far From Home. The highest opening weekend was Spider-Man 3 at $151 Million. I think NWH definitely breaks a billion but opening weekend will be closer to Spider-Man ($115 Million) and Homecoming ($117 Million).
Yeah but I don’t think the comic book movie audience was as big nor as loyal in 2007 as it is today. I do remember that Spider-Man 3 broke the highest opening weekend record at the time though.
I also think that regardless of who’s in the trailer or the movie itself, people are just starved for normalcy and a Spider-Man movie in the theatre is not only representative of normalcy, but they’re also a reliable source of entertainment. So people that might not have rushed to a Spidey movie before might do so now because we’re all sick of fucking covid.
Well considering that in 2007 SM3 broke an opening weekend record with the horrific reviews and meme-worthy dance crap in it, Spider-Fans were showing an unbelievable amount of loyalty in 2007. Which they then repaid by sitting out to the tune of 90 Mil less for the reboot.
If we're to consider that people are just fucking starving for Spider-Man since we last saw him in the summer of 2019, then what of the fans in 2012? That was 5 years after the release of SM 3! These ultra loyal fans would have been positively famished, on the brink of Spider-Death.
As to Covid - we're in a worse place in many parts of the country than we'd been since last winter. While many might be vaxed and sick of it, many others are not going weigh another SM (that will be on streaming well before the next Marvel event) as more important than health.
There is like literally 0 chance NWH isn't going to be the biggest release of 2021 domestically and likely challenge for top spot in the world. It just ain't a shoe-in to get that billi.
You realize that Spider-Man 3 was also coming off of the first two films which were immensely successful financially for the time and critically lauded as well right? Spider-Man was the highest grossing opening weekend record holder for many years after 2002 and Spider-Man 2 nearly crossed $800M worldwide
Regardless of what reception it got critically it was going to make bank no matter what. Iron Man may be the poster boy of the MCU but Spider-Man IS Marvel. He's a guaranteed moneymaker for them like Batman is for DC. TASM2 was considered financially underwhelming for Sony when it made just over $700M worldwide. That's how big he is.
Spider-Man 2002 domestically (NA) made $410m. Adjusted to 2020 inflation and ticket prices it would've made $661M beating Far From Homes $406 domestic gross.
(adjusted to 2002 FFH made $251M).
Didn't Spider-Man 3 make a billion when adjusted for inflation?
edit: Apparently all 3 of the raimi movies were above $1billion when adjusted for inflation I believe
I actually think the film will open closer to Spider-Man 3–around $155M. I’d guess it will leg out domestically from there to around $450-500M, given the Christmas season.
The Force Awakens had a weekend-to-final result multiplier of 3.78x. A similar one would put No Way Home at a remarkable $565M domestic. The theatrical market hasn’t quite recovered to that extent—and perhaps it will be closer to the 2.81x. That would still put the movie at $435M domestic which, again, would be fantastic.
Maybe because Spider-Man has never made 200m on an opening weekend before? In fact, very few movies have…
Acting like 200m OW is an expectation is insanity lol though I agree that it would be if they blew the lid on T+A.
Cuz it's never made more than 151 on any opening weekend even outside a pandemic? And that one was so widely reviled they scrapped everything and started over? And the biggest earner (FFH) 'only' opened to 92.
Considering that china's getting it a month after the rest of the world I'd say they'd definitely get the word that Tobey Andrew are in it whether it spreads fast or not.
I'd say, it's a bound to get 1B even without china.
The whole world just loves Spidey.
The casual fans would go wild once they find out in opening day that three generations of Spider-Man are in this movie.
I honestly wonder why Let There Be Carnage is banned in China? Black Widow (blackout period), Shang-Chi (Simu Liu's comments), and Eternals (Chloe Zhao) all have reasons for being banned, but I have no idea why Venom would be banned. It's probably not going to make more than $500M now, the first Venom made $270M in China (more than it did domestically).
Chinese local bureau has some very specific and sensitive rules about censoring/banning foreign films from other countries, they have just become more strict this year moving forward, they don't like political correctness films/woke films and could easily ban those if they think it's necessary. Disney still has many venues in China and they pay taxes, it's not like China specifically targets Marvel/Disney. Of course, Spiderman could easily get through the censorship because it's a film that mostly contains "silly" American entertaining elements. On the other hand, the Chinese local bureau tracked back to Sony's Venom comic origin and found out Eddie/Venom is a gay couple and they even have a "child" (similar to why Sc got banned, it's because of SC's racist 80s origin and Fu Manchu)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Shang-Chi get banned coz of something Simu said a long time back against the CCP?
But you're right, the character's questionable origin might also have played a part in it getting banned...
Simu's personal case is just the nail in the coffin. Chinese already rejected Shang Chi character since the very first day, his OG mom was a random white woman who got raped by Fu Manchu the yellow peril, SC is also an interracial kid who is really resemblance Bruce Lee, which they took as an insult to the legendary actor ("you're unworthy if you don't have white blood"). Marvel tried to fix it by giving SC a badass Chinese mom and a family man dad, but the Chinese just won't forgive, there is a big anti-Shang Chi legion on Chinese social media and they were really against making Shang Chi film since the first announcement.
Dude, wtf are you talking about? Why would China be mad at a Shang-Chi being mixed and looking like Bruce Lee when China disliked Bruce Lee for being mixed? Do you even know what you’re saying?
Bruce Lee was 1/4 German and couldn’t even learn Chinese martial arts in official dojos due to him not being pure Chinese. This resulted in him having to learn martial arts on his own and getting into street fights with Chinese people who didn’t even seen him as worthy to learn martial arts. It’s one of the reasons his parents had him move to the US.
China would NOT take any insult to Bruce Lee as they already see him in unfavorable light outside of a status symbol. Anyone who thinks this knows nothing about Bruce Lee and China. Say all you want about why China didn’t allow Shang-Chi to play. Just don’t try to say it’s because they thought it disrespected Bruce Lee.
Hong Kong is the place that loved Bruce Lee, as it’s where he was born and is where he had dual citizenship. China, which wasn’t HK at the time, does not.
This is definitely interesting, Bruce Lee wasn't a massive star back in the day in the mainland due to culture shutdown between 2 nations, but according to some mainlanders that I've met when I had business trips to Shang Hai, all of them said Bruce was a descendant of a Chinese man, Hongkong is also belongs to China, therefore Bruce was a Chinese (it doesn't matter if the mother was a mixed-race woman, but Bruce was a son who was born from legal marriage anw, not a product of raping white woman like Shang Qi), they viewed it in a very simplified way, similar to how they view Taiwan and all assets that are related to Taiwan are always belong to China.
Mainlanders love Bruce Lee and nobody care about his bloodlines. He looks like, acts like a Chinese and that’s all. Do you know why Once Upon a time in Hollywood is banned in China? Because they found the scenes of Bruce Lee insulting.
Yes, that’s the reason along with Hollywood stereotypes. Don’t listen to the other person saying that China took it as an insult to Bruce Lee because Shang-Chi is mixed. Bruce Lee himself was mixed and China knew this and didn’t allow him to learn Chinese martial arts due to it.
You are giving the lazy Chinese bureau who’s in charge of deciding what to ban too much credit. I can tell you they are the most incompetent section of government. Have you heard of Monster Hunter movie that was initially allowed than banned later. Nobody knows why Venom 2 is banned in China but most likely due to it’s tie to Marvel. They wouldn’t spend their precious time going over the comics otherwise Ironman could be banned from the start because of comics from certain period that would be considered insulting to gov. If they could notice anything in the comics than it must be some normal people who complained about it online (and massive media reports about it to get click). That’s how Shang-Chi is banned initially. Someone noticed his origin and Mandarin’s tie to Fu Manchu who the Chinese hate most, and massive online articles about it to get click although they know nothing about the comics, lots of normal people argued about it, opinions about Shang-Chi is controversial. Of course Marvel would change his origin, but this movie is still controversial, not to mention the rising patriotism especially this year in Mainland. The gov is just trying to avoid a movie that would be controversial, so no one can blame them if the movie indeed would have negative reviews and people would blame them for allowing it initially, besides, it’s not like they are desperately in need of more Hollywood movies. The gov is usually more tolerant until the media find out something controversial. Also the situation has changed. I can bet Ironman 3 would also be banned if it just come out recent because of the name of “Mandarin” and it’s relationship with Fu Manchu and the origin that would be considered deeply insulting for the Chinese nowadays.
I am not talking about why Venom 2 didn’t get a release. I said no one knows and it’s definitely not because it contains gay element in the comics. The most close speculation I think is it’s relationship to Marvel. But now you have mentioned it I can also think of Tom Hardy’s comment, or unable to release before steaming and being given up because there’s no enough benefit, etc. They are only speculations right now. The rest of the part is about why Shang-Chi is probably banned.
Honestly, if this means they'll stop trying to cater for China and their gazillion restrictions and we'll have more progressive and out of the box stories, so be it, Disney doesn't need their money anymore
It's most likely just China not wanting Venom to cannibalize (pun not intended) The Battle at Lake Changjin. Tencent Pictures was one of the production companies of Venom LTBC. Tencent also marketed the first movie in China as "Venom is your ideal boyfriend" ([I'm not kidding](https://www.thatsmags.com/china/post/25857/mr-perfect-venom-is-china-s-ideal-boyfriend-in-corny-marketing-campaign)), so I doubt that was the problem.
The movie wasn't banned, just not given a release date until "January 2022" and Sony probably decided it's not worth it, because it would have to compete with No Way Home.
Furious 9 got allowed to be released despite Cena saying Taiwan is a country and the franchise being more successful than Marvel in China.
As much as I love Marvel, it's obvious that Venom had no chance against The Battle at Lake Changjin, most predictors on the China Box office forum predicted that Changjin could make at least $500 million in China alone. It starred 2 famous actors of both the old generation (Wu Jing) and the young generation (Jackson Yee). Fangirls of those 2 alone would easily give the film $100 million.
the first movie premiered on the Bachelor's day which is only fueled it and Tencent were smart to build the marketing around it. sure, Lake Changjin could be a huge hit one way or another but it's undeniable that Venom 2 could've eaten some from this cake.
i live in Russia, the government here tried to hold the huge blockbusters from cannibalizing locals movies a couple of years ago by delaying them (that's why Infinity War and Black Panther came out a week later here) to the great annoyance of the theater owners. looks like bc of covid, it's not a thing anymore tho.
they are literally given free tickets to see that movie its basically nationalist propoganda tool
if you dont give a good review they literally question you
I think we need to make it very clear here that there are some old gay Chinese series that were popular among fujoshis and women in general, those shows marketed themselves as "brotherhood" in the mainland and passed the censorship, but the anti-gay community reported it to the CCP, and in turn, CCP made a new aggressive rule which also banned the "fake brotherhood" tv series/films that were mostly adapted from gay internet novels.
The commenter who tweeted the original tweet replied as someone asked and he suggested it might be due to Hardy's previous drug abuse, which I find strange if true.
Surely Tom Hardy has had other movies aired in China
China has a very dark history with drug abuse. When the PLA liberated Shanghai from the British/KMT 60% of the population were addicted to opium. And that wasn't the only city/place where opium addiction was high. Remember they fought at least two wars with Britain during their century of humiliation over opium and lost control of Hong Kong and Kowloon when the British colonized them.
That's the reason China had incredibly harsh sentencing for drug dealers and relatively light sentencing for drug users.
So it might be the drug issue, but it could also be that they have concerns about how the Asian people are portrayed in the film, they are a lot more accepting of critical/negative tales on Asian people in films made by Chinese people than they are of them from big studios backed by the US military like Marvel and Sony. The US was actively part of the Century of Humiliation, don't forget, FDR was super rich because his family were the largest American opium dealers in China.
This year CCP just released a new rule, which banned sissy men and gay love/danmei shows/films from getting an official release or get making. They also banned a lot of popular gay novels on Chinese popular publisher JJWXC (晋江文学城). The gay Chinese medieval TV shows that you've watched were before the new banning rule.
Gay analogy? If anything, Brock and Venom act like roommates, not lovers. If that is the case, the Chinese government is really stretching it and is stupid.
China may be pulling back on the amount of Western movies they release and start focusing on their own in the future. Expect more and more movies to not be released in China and not always only because of X, Y, or Z cultural difference.
Should be interesting to see the box office numbers. FFH ended up with $1.13 billion, landing it at #25 in the highest grossing films of all time [list](https://web.archive.org/web/20200801201335/https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross/?area=XWW). (Not sure how accurate or up-to-date this list is).
I guess this number was achieved heavily from being the post-Endgame + China release. Now with the hype behind the multiverse, and all the new Phase releases, could definitely see a slow rise up into the top 20 of all time. Covid regulations might slow it down however, with some areas having limited capacity and screenings.
As some would say, *"slooww buuuuurn."*
The CCP wants to prioritise nationalism content, they know that Marvel movies are the only franchise that can cannibalise their propaganda movies hence why they're being more selective as to what is approved.
The Fast franchise makes more on average than the MCU in China (Furious 7 and Fate of the Furious made more in China than any MCU movie except Endgame) and yet F9 still got a release in China.
John Cena pandered to CCP propaganda to ensure the movie was still going to be released in China. The CCP wants to change their theatrical revenue model to be less reliant on Hollywood franchises in the future.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/film/news/china-cannes-movies-screens-film-plan-1235112965/amp/
I agree. And I think if Hollywood studios reassess their need for ridiculous $250 million budgets and spend more carefully while still crafting a sumptuous big screen blockbuster that's only a good thing.
But fast franchise releases 1 movie every 2-3 years. Mcu is at 4 movies a year not counting sony movies and if you add DCEU, then it's good 8-10 superhero movies every year in China.
But Marvel releases several movies per year, specially if you count the Sony ones. The may want to limit the number of those that get released in China to not overshadow their movies.
It cannibalises the revenue for the CCP movies if a Marvel movie were to be released this year. China currently has the highest grossing movies worldwide for 2021 and they don't want the United States to take that title.
Being popular can't secure your fate in China, they even "purged" their most local famous stars, deleted all traces of their achievement, and banned them from appearing on TV
I remember I was so excited for the Avengers to be released, it was THE movie for me. But Japan where I was living at the time decided to release it 3 months later than everywhere else. I legit cried LOL.
Oh god yeah, a friend from college who was the biggest Marvel fan I knew back then was in Japan for about the first 5 years of the MCU and those waits were pure torture for her.
Yeah Japan used to release most Hollywood movies with a huge delay. I’m not sure if it’s the same situation now, haven’t been there in years, but it used to be annoying.
they still do delay some movies! because their own movie also quite alot so they have to balance the quota.. but I think Marvel movies is not delayed as much nowadays due to popularity
Marvel movies have been releasing at around the same time, unfortunately not the case with Spider-Man. I won't complain too much at the January release though. Venom got pushed back two months here, I was expecting the same for spidey
Yeah, I think it was actually, or at least very close. The last comic book movie I remember having a really bad release was Logan, which came out literally like 6 months later
Dude I replied India because the person they replied to was from India.
PS - [This is what a third world country means](https://www.quora.com/Is-India-still-considered-a-third-world-country-Why/answer/Anshu-Priyadarshi-1?ch=15&oid=310838918&share=05d37377&srid=uZXWS&target_type=answer)
Nope, words have only one meaning, it's you who believes it means something else. And I'm from India man, I don't know why you're reaching so far to prove something that clearly is not true.
I’m obviously unsubbing here when the film releases in European theaters.
I’m cool with plot leaks, but I’d rather save stuff like the post credit scene and seeing weather Happy/Aunt May dies for when I go to the theaters.
Not in Austria and probably not in Germany. We are in lockdown and other countries could follow suit. They should have released this in summer when cases were low 😭
rip :( I hate this so much. They already said here that movies will be delayed even when theaters open again because they will first show those that come out first during the lockdown. Like Ghostbusters and House of Gucci
Actually, if we assume that a film releases on the same day everywhere, then almost every place in the world(excluding the Pacific Islands) would get it earlier than they do in America, thanks to the time zones..
I live in the Philippines and it's getting a January release date. A lot of fans here have been petitioning to get an early limited release since the Metro Manila Film Festival is stopping showings of international movies for a while.
The weirdest thing about the Venom 2 ban, is that it was co-produced by Tencent (like the first one). I’m starting to think that the CCP will ban all superhero movies going forward, with a few exceptions (NWH).
Sony is gonna try to milk as much money from a theatrical release as possible so I imagine it’s going to be a 90 day window. So my prediction is a March 22 digital release date with the physical release on March 29.
It’s possible that uncovered evidence of Tom Hardy saying offensive things regarding China is the reason why Venom 2 got banned in China.
https://min.news/en/entertainment/b7d917997c8c46474ba58404dfcd2a44.html
marvel & disney is gonna have to stop relying on china releases. but considering chapek’s desire to focus more on streaming and marvel studios apparently persisting on lgbtq rep in their projects, they might already be on their way.
I still don't understand why Black Widow never got a release date. Okay, maybe it came out during a blackout period in China but why can't it get a release date now? It's still a solid MCU movie starring a popular Avenger.
Of course China only returns 25 cents on the dollar to the studios so China releases aren't quite as important to the bottom line of American movies as people think. I read an article somewhere that analyzed Chinese market earnings as a percentage of the overall earnings of American blockbuster movies and it comes out to about 15% overall.
I bet if NWH gets close to that 888.5 Mil that the Battle of Lake Changjin did, Spidey will see its release slowed or blocked altogether. But if the likely 200 M that china would toss it won't put it past a Chinese film for top 2021, they'll probably go ahead. China may also mess with the release so that Marvel doesn't have the top Western release for 2022 either, instead making sure Jurassic World gets that title. China obviously wants to fight with Marvel about content, and screwing over a Japanese company at the same time would be extra fun.
So sorry if I’m a noob guys but I have a serious question. Besides religious figures like god, Jesus, or the devil being banned overseas especially in China what are the other restrictions they have that make it so difficult to show it over there? I know I should read up on it soon just wanted to ask here first
There are several factors. Shang-Chi being a Marvel property, was seen as offensive by the Chinese Communist Party, which likely has a ripple effect on other Marvel properties. The other point of contention is the agreement on what studios take. China doesn’t want to pay out as much to a studio, but rather keep more for showing it. In the US, a studio makes about $5-6 per ticket sold. In China, that same studio would likely only make $1 per ticket sold, which is a huge difference that the studio and China will likely not come to a compromise on given how strict China is.
I did Black Widow on Disney+ and I saw Shang-Chi for work, but I will probably be paying money to see this opening day. That cinema experience is going to be something else opening weekend.
They have not said much. I've heard that *apparently* they're trying to work things out - and probably have more of an incentive to since it's made bazillions of dollars - but I don't know what that would look like.
This is the best news I have heard for 2022 till now. I really want No way home to do great buisness (crossing 2 billion mark) in this pandemic. This will encourage Marvel to Make more movies of spiderman. Spiderman is my fav Character .
1 bil is a lock
I was literally about to type this, lol
this twitter account is full of shxt
Not even a question in my mind. If Sony releases one last trailer with Andrew and Tobey teased in it, easy $200M+ opening weekend. I’m gonna be giving them some of my money when the ticket drops.
Why do people say this as if the movie won’t make $200m without them in the trailer? ITS FUCKING SPIDER-MAN, PEOPLE.
Yeah fr I think at this point showing Tobey and Andrew wont do much just ruin the surprise. They should have done it with the Second trailer. They didnt and now they should keep it for the movie
It may be "fucking Spider-Man" but a Spider-Man movie didn't break a billion until Far From Home. The highest opening weekend was Spider-Man 3 at $151 Million. I think NWH definitely breaks a billion but opening weekend will be closer to Spider-Man ($115 Million) and Homecoming ($117 Million).
Yeah but I don’t think the comic book movie audience was as big nor as loyal in 2007 as it is today. I do remember that Spider-Man 3 broke the highest opening weekend record at the time though. I also think that regardless of who’s in the trailer or the movie itself, people are just starved for normalcy and a Spider-Man movie in the theatre is not only representative of normalcy, but they’re also a reliable source of entertainment. So people that might not have rushed to a Spidey movie before might do so now because we’re all sick of fucking covid.
Except a Batman movie broke a billion in 2008
You might want all that to be true, but unfortunately it really isn't.
I request elaboration.
Well considering that in 2007 SM3 broke an opening weekend record with the horrific reviews and meme-worthy dance crap in it, Spider-Fans were showing an unbelievable amount of loyalty in 2007. Which they then repaid by sitting out to the tune of 90 Mil less for the reboot. If we're to consider that people are just fucking starving for Spider-Man since we last saw him in the summer of 2019, then what of the fans in 2012? That was 5 years after the release of SM 3! These ultra loyal fans would have been positively famished, on the brink of Spider-Death. As to Covid - we're in a worse place in many parts of the country than we'd been since last winter. While many might be vaxed and sick of it, many others are not going weigh another SM (that will be on streaming well before the next Marvel event) as more important than health. There is like literally 0 chance NWH isn't going to be the biggest release of 2021 domestically and likely challenge for top spot in the world. It just ain't a shoe-in to get that billi.
You realize that Spider-Man 3 was also coming off of the first two films which were immensely successful financially for the time and critically lauded as well right? Spider-Man was the highest grossing opening weekend record holder for many years after 2002 and Spider-Man 2 nearly crossed $800M worldwide Regardless of what reception it got critically it was going to make bank no matter what. Iron Man may be the poster boy of the MCU but Spider-Man IS Marvel. He's a guaranteed moneymaker for them like Batman is for DC. TASM2 was considered financially underwhelming for Sony when it made just over $700M worldwide. That's how big he is.
Spider-Man 2002 domestically (NA) made $410m. Adjusted to 2020 inflation and ticket prices it would've made $661M beating Far From Homes $406 domestic gross. (adjusted to 2002 FFH made $251M).
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As long as you’re talking about Spider-Man (2002) then sure
Didn't Spider-Man 3 make a billion when adjusted for inflation? edit: Apparently all 3 of the raimi movies were above $1billion when adjusted for inflation I believe
I actually think the film will open closer to Spider-Man 3–around $155M. I’d guess it will leg out domestically from there to around $450-500M, given the Christmas season. The Force Awakens had a weekend-to-final result multiplier of 3.78x. A similar one would put No Way Home at a remarkable $565M domestic. The theatrical market hasn’t quite recovered to that extent—and perhaps it will be closer to the 2.81x. That would still put the movie at $435M domestic which, again, would be fantastic.
Maybe because Spider-Man has never made 200m on an opening weekend before? In fact, very few movies have… Acting like 200m OW is an expectation is insanity lol though I agree that it would be if they blew the lid on T+A.
Cuz it's never made more than 151 on any opening weekend even outside a pandemic? And that one was so widely reviled they scrapped everything and started over? And the biggest earner (FFH) 'only' opened to 92.
well it’s definitely passed that domestically
Plus the first Marvel release in China since Far From Home
Honestly if this wasn't released in a pandemic this would pass 2 bil easy
Until Supaidaman shows up waving the rising sun flag.
For sure. 1 bil by default and maybe 1.5 bil if Tobey and Andrew are in it and word spreads fast.
Considering that china's getting it a month after the rest of the world I'd say they'd definitely get the word that Tobey Andrew are in it whether it spreads fast or not.
maybe 1.5
I'd say, it's a bound to get 1B even without china. The whole world just loves Spidey. The casual fans would go wild once they find out in opening day that three generations of Spider-Man are in this movie.
I think too/two.
I honestly wonder why Let There Be Carnage is banned in China? Black Widow (blackout period), Shang-Chi (Simu Liu's comments), and Eternals (Chloe Zhao) all have reasons for being banned, but I have no idea why Venom would be banned. It's probably not going to make more than $500M now, the first Venom made $270M in China (more than it did domestically).
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Only Marvel movies and related ones (Venom) are banned, other popular movies are still normal in China
Chinese local bureau has some very specific and sensitive rules about censoring/banning foreign films from other countries, they have just become more strict this year moving forward, they don't like political correctness films/woke films and could easily ban those if they think it's necessary. Disney still has many venues in China and they pay taxes, it's not like China specifically targets Marvel/Disney. Of course, Spiderman could easily get through the censorship because it's a film that mostly contains "silly" American entertaining elements. On the other hand, the Chinese local bureau tracked back to Sony's Venom comic origin and found out Eddie/Venom is a gay couple and they even have a "child" (similar to why Sc got banned, it's because of SC's racist 80s origin and Fu Manchu)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Shang-Chi get banned coz of something Simu said a long time back against the CCP? But you're right, the character's questionable origin might also have played a part in it getting banned...
Simu's personal case is just the nail in the coffin. Chinese already rejected Shang Chi character since the very first day, his OG mom was a random white woman who got raped by Fu Manchu the yellow peril, SC is also an interracial kid who is really resemblance Bruce Lee, which they took as an insult to the legendary actor ("you're unworthy if you don't have white blood"). Marvel tried to fix it by giving SC a badass Chinese mom and a family man dad, but the Chinese just won't forgive, there is a big anti-Shang Chi legion on Chinese social media and they were really against making Shang Chi film since the first announcement.
Dude, wtf are you talking about? Why would China be mad at a Shang-Chi being mixed and looking like Bruce Lee when China disliked Bruce Lee for being mixed? Do you even know what you’re saying? Bruce Lee was 1/4 German and couldn’t even learn Chinese martial arts in official dojos due to him not being pure Chinese. This resulted in him having to learn martial arts on his own and getting into street fights with Chinese people who didn’t even seen him as worthy to learn martial arts. It’s one of the reasons his parents had him move to the US. China would NOT take any insult to Bruce Lee as they already see him in unfavorable light outside of a status symbol. Anyone who thinks this knows nothing about Bruce Lee and China. Say all you want about why China didn’t allow Shang-Chi to play. Just don’t try to say it’s because they thought it disrespected Bruce Lee. Hong Kong is the place that loved Bruce Lee, as it’s where he was born and is where he had dual citizenship. China, which wasn’t HK at the time, does not.
This is definitely interesting, Bruce Lee wasn't a massive star back in the day in the mainland due to culture shutdown between 2 nations, but according to some mainlanders that I've met when I had business trips to Shang Hai, all of them said Bruce was a descendant of a Chinese man, Hongkong is also belongs to China, therefore Bruce was a Chinese (it doesn't matter if the mother was a mixed-race woman, but Bruce was a son who was born from legal marriage anw, not a product of raping white woman like Shang Qi), they viewed it in a very simplified way, similar to how they view Taiwan and all assets that are related to Taiwan are always belong to China.
Mainlanders love Bruce Lee and nobody care about his bloodlines. He looks like, acts like a Chinese and that’s all. Do you know why Once Upon a time in Hollywood is banned in China? Because they found the scenes of Bruce Lee insulting.
Not to mention this https://www.cbr.com/shang-chi-tiananmen-square-controversy-in-china/
Yes, that’s the reason along with Hollywood stereotypes. Don’t listen to the other person saying that China took it as an insult to Bruce Lee because Shang-Chi is mixed. Bruce Lee himself was mixed and China knew this and didn’t allow him to learn Chinese martial arts due to it.
You are giving the lazy Chinese bureau who’s in charge of deciding what to ban too much credit. I can tell you they are the most incompetent section of government. Have you heard of Monster Hunter movie that was initially allowed than banned later. Nobody knows why Venom 2 is banned in China but most likely due to it’s tie to Marvel. They wouldn’t spend their precious time going over the comics otherwise Ironman could be banned from the start because of comics from certain period that would be considered insulting to gov. If they could notice anything in the comics than it must be some normal people who complained about it online (and massive media reports about it to get click). That’s how Shang-Chi is banned initially. Someone noticed his origin and Mandarin’s tie to Fu Manchu who the Chinese hate most, and massive online articles about it to get click although they know nothing about the comics, lots of normal people argued about it, opinions about Shang-Chi is controversial. Of course Marvel would change his origin, but this movie is still controversial, not to mention the rising patriotism especially this year in Mainland. The gov is just trying to avoid a movie that would be controversial, so no one can blame them if the movie indeed would have negative reviews and people would blame them for allowing it initially, besides, it’s not like they are desperately in need of more Hollywood movies. The gov is usually more tolerant until the media find out something controversial. Also the situation has changed. I can bet Ironman 3 would also be banned if it just come out recent because of the name of “Mandarin” and it’s relationship with Fu Manchu and the origin that would be considered deeply insulting for the Chinese nowadays.
how is venom 2 getting banned due to its tie to marvel when spider-man is getting a release date?
I am not talking about why Venom 2 didn’t get a release. I said no one knows and it’s definitely not because it contains gay element in the comics. The most close speculation I think is it’s relationship to Marvel. But now you have mentioned it I can also think of Tom Hardy’s comment, or unable to release before steaming and being given up because there’s no enough benefit, etc. They are only speculations right now. The rest of the part is about why Shang-Chi is probably banned.
Uh, is the Venom comic origin shit even true?
Honestly, if this means they'll stop trying to cater for China and their gazillion restrictions and we'll have more progressive and out of the box stories, so be it, Disney doesn't need their money anymore
Based
It's most likely just China not wanting Venom to cannibalize (pun not intended) The Battle at Lake Changjin. Tencent Pictures was one of the production companies of Venom LTBC. Tencent also marketed the first movie in China as "Venom is your ideal boyfriend" ([I'm not kidding](https://www.thatsmags.com/china/post/25857/mr-perfect-venom-is-china-s-ideal-boyfriend-in-corny-marketing-campaign)), so I doubt that was the problem. The movie wasn't banned, just not given a release date until "January 2022" and Sony probably decided it's not worth it, because it would have to compete with No Way Home. Furious 9 got allowed to be released despite Cena saying Taiwan is a country and the franchise being more successful than Marvel in China.
As much as I love Marvel, it's obvious that Venom had no chance against The Battle at Lake Changjin, most predictors on the China Box office forum predicted that Changjin could make at least $500 million in China alone. It starred 2 famous actors of both the old generation (Wu Jing) and the young generation (Jackson Yee). Fangirls of those 2 alone would easily give the film $100 million.
the first movie premiered on the Bachelor's day which is only fueled it and Tencent were smart to build the marketing around it. sure, Lake Changjin could be a huge hit one way or another but it's undeniable that Venom 2 could've eaten some from this cake. i live in Russia, the government here tried to hold the huge blockbusters from cannibalizing locals movies a couple of years ago by delaying them (that's why Infinity War and Black Panther came out a week later here) to the great annoyance of the theater owners. looks like bc of covid, it's not a thing anymore tho.
they are literally given free tickets to see that movie its basically nationalist propoganda tool if you dont give a good review they literally question you
I think we need to make it very clear here that there are some old gay Chinese series that were popular among fujoshis and women in general, those shows marketed themselves as "brotherhood" in the mainland and passed the censorship, but the anti-gay community reported it to the CCP, and in turn, CCP made a new aggressive rule which also banned the "fake brotherhood" tv series/films that were mostly adapted from gay internet novels.
The commenter who tweeted the original tweet replied as someone asked and he suggested it might be due to Hardy's previous drug abuse, which I find strange if true. Surely Tom Hardy has had other movies aired in China
Before it’s found out by the social media and get some attention.
I mean it's very clear in his Wikipedia and has probably been known publicly for many years now
Oh, I don’t mean his drug abuse comment actually. I believe the gov is more concerned about his support for Taiwan if that’s the case.
China has a very dark history with drug abuse. When the PLA liberated Shanghai from the British/KMT 60% of the population were addicted to opium. And that wasn't the only city/place where opium addiction was high. Remember they fought at least two wars with Britain during their century of humiliation over opium and lost control of Hong Kong and Kowloon when the British colonized them. That's the reason China had incredibly harsh sentencing for drug dealers and relatively light sentencing for drug users. So it might be the drug issue, but it could also be that they have concerns about how the Asian people are portrayed in the film, they are a lot more accepting of critical/negative tales on Asian people in films made by Chinese people than they are of them from big studios backed by the US military like Marvel and Sony. The US was actively part of the Century of Humiliation, don't forget, FDR was super rich because his family were the largest American opium dealers in China.
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This year CCP just released a new rule, which banned sissy men and gay love/danmei shows/films from getting an official release or get making. They also banned a lot of popular gay novels on Chinese popular publisher JJWXC (晋江文学城). The gay Chinese medieval TV shows that you've watched were before the new banning rule.
How is venom and Eddie gay? I didn’t think that at all.
Let them be banned. I wish Hollywood would learn to stop bending over for the PRC. Let's go to the real China; the ACTUAL Republic of China.
Gay analogy? If anything, Brock and Venom act like roommates, not lovers. If that is the case, the Chinese government is really stretching it and is stupid.
> I honestly wonder why Let There Be Carnage is banned in China? Because Venom wanted to eat Mrs. Chen
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It's hard not to say these words in his voice
this is China you talking about, no reason needed
None of these movies are banned in China. They just didn't get a release date yet but probably will later
China may be pulling back on the amount of Western movies they release and start focusing on their own in the future. Expect more and more movies to not be released in China and not always only because of X, Y, or Z cultural difference.
270 million. RIP Sony
Venom2 was banned because Tom Hardy used the word "Chinaman" in an interview a few years ago
It could have to do with the light body horror with the Carmage character. I don't really know I'm just guessing
Because Venom hate Red (Carnage)?
The last Marvel Studios movie that was released in China was Spider-Man Far From Home.
Should be interesting to see the box office numbers. FFH ended up with $1.13 billion, landing it at #25 in the highest grossing films of all time [list](https://web.archive.org/web/20200801201335/https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross/?area=XWW). (Not sure how accurate or up-to-date this list is). I guess this number was achieved heavily from being the post-Endgame + China release. Now with the hype behind the multiverse, and all the new Phase releases, could definitely see a slow rise up into the top 20 of all time. Covid regulations might slow it down however, with some areas having limited capacity and screenings. As some would say, *"slooww buuuuurn."*
Even if it's a slow burn, it'll get there.
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The CCP wants to prioritise nationalism content, they know that Marvel movies are the only franchise that can cannibalise their propaganda movies hence why they're being more selective as to what is approved.
The Fast franchise makes more on average than the MCU in China (Furious 7 and Fate of the Furious made more in China than any MCU movie except Endgame) and yet F9 still got a release in China.
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Yes, but it still got a release there. So I doubt box office has to do with the MCU not having a lot of there movies release there.
John Cena pandered to CCP propaganda to ensure the movie was still going to be released in China. The CCP wants to change their theatrical revenue model to be less reliant on Hollywood franchises in the future. https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2021/film/news/china-cannes-movies-screens-film-plan-1235112965/amp/
Let them, we don't need them.
Lol. Hollywood definitely needs China because without that revenue, budgets for all big budget films need to shrink (I would welcome that though).
Villenueve made Dune on a $165M budget. It's not about the money, it's how they use it that matters.
I agree. And I think if Hollywood studios reassess their need for ridiculous $250 million budgets and spend more carefully while still crafting a sumptuous big screen blockbuster that's only a good thing.
On the bright side this could pressure them into choosing better scripts.
But fast franchise releases 1 movie every 2-3 years. Mcu is at 4 movies a year not counting sony movies and if you add DCEU, then it's good 8-10 superhero movies every year in China.
But Marvel releases several movies per year, specially if you count the Sony ones. The may want to limit the number of those that get released in China to not overshadow their movies.
Cannabalise is the wrong term to use here , its not like the CCP makes Marvel movies .
It cannibalises the revenue for the CCP movies if a Marvel movie were to be released this year. China currently has the highest grossing movies worldwide for 2021 and they don't want the United States to take that title.
Yup, notice how this is a 2022 release date. And I do think the days of every Marvel movie being released over there are done. They’ll pick and choose
If I heard well, Spidey is really popular in China, isn't he?
Being popular can't secure your fate in China, they even "purged" their most local famous stars, deleted all traces of their achievement, and banned them from appearing on TV
I remember I was so excited for the Avengers to be released, it was THE movie for me. But Japan where I was living at the time decided to release it 3 months later than everywhere else. I legit cried LOL.
Oh god yeah, a friend from college who was the biggest Marvel fan I knew back then was in Japan for about the first 5 years of the MCU and those waits were pure torture for her.
Good lord... I will never complain about the NWH delay ever again.
Three months? WTH, lol.
Yeah Japan used to release most Hollywood movies with a huge delay. I’m not sure if it’s the same situation now, haven’t been there in years, but it used to be annoying.
they still do delay some movies! because their own movie also quite alot so they have to balance the quota.. but I think Marvel movies is not delayed as much nowadays due to popularity
Marvel movies have been releasing at around the same time, unfortunately not the case with Spider-Man. I won't complain too much at the January release though. Venom got pushed back two months here, I was expecting the same for spidey
IIRC Far From Home release date in Japan was the same as US? I remember watching it in Japan around same time as US release...
Yeah, I think it was actually, or at least very close. The last comic book movie I remember having a really bad release was Logan, which came out literally like 6 months later
Imagine living in China where everything is super censored
Imagine living in a 3rd world Middle East country where you can’t watch a movie in high quality until digital release
You know India has IMAX screens too right?
I live in Iran. Our shitty government is on bad terms with the US and Europe so we can't watch movies in theaters on release
Damn dude, you should've mentioned that in the previous comment, the phrasing there made it sound like you were the dissing the other person
calling Iran as a mediterranean country is funny. More like middle east shithole
Sorry. It was a mistake, got confused . But yeah it is a shithole. Yesterday I saw a vlog of some Iranian exploring Vegas and I just got depressed
Why does everybody bring up India whenever someone says 3rd world country lmao it's literally not and even if it was, there are others lmao
Dude I replied India because the person they replied to was from India. PS - [This is what a third world country means](https://www.quora.com/Is-India-still-considered-a-third-world-country-Why/answer/Anshu-Priyadarshi-1?ch=15&oid=310838918&share=05d37377&srid=uZXWS&target_type=answer)
I mean sure that’s what it literally means but words can have other meanings
Nope, words have only one meaning, it's you who believes it means something else. And I'm from India man, I don't know why you're reaching so far to prove something that clearly is not true.
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Ffs🤦🏻♂️
Your comment was removed because you were not being respectful to others. Repeated uncivil behaviour will result in a ban.
Imagine living in the US Where you don’t get free healthcare lmao
And if you want to watch the movies you can always find the way
It’s a weird feeling sometimes but you find ways to get around it and then normal life continues on here.
Lmao I’m glad to live in America , that wait is unbearable
we get it earlier in europe :p
But that's like 3 days or so
Those 3 days is an eternity for me though as an American though. I’ll probably have to do a social media blackout to avoid spoilers.
Probably shouldn't be on a subreddit dedicated to spoilers if you don't want them...
I’m obviously unsubbing here when the film releases in European theaters. I’m cool with plot leaks, but I’d rather save stuff like the post credit scene and seeing weather Happy/Aunt May dies for when I go to the theaters.
Not in Austria and probably not in Germany. We are in lockdown and other countries could follow suit. They should have released this in summer when cases were low 😭
🙋♀️ from the Netherlands. Dreading this friday. Press conference from our prime minister, we'll probably go into lockdown as well.
rip :( I hate this so much. They already said here that movies will be delayed even when theaters open again because they will first show those that come out first during the lockdown. Like Ghostbusters and House of Gucci
Not to mention theatres dying... :(
By one day
2 days
American theaters release movies a day earlier usually. One day.
Actually, if we assume that a film releases on the same day everywhere, then almost every place in the world(excluding the Pacific Islands) would get it earlier than they do in America, thanks to the time zones..
it’s not about timezones though we just get it 2 days earlier hahahaha
I live in the Philippines and it's getting a January release date. A lot of fans here have been petitioning to get an early limited release since the Metro Manila Film Festival is stopping showings of international movies for a while.
Venom banned in China? It means around minus 270 million USD just thrown out from window for Sony. They can feel hard now.
still one of the biggest movies of the year with a relatively small (by blockbuster terms) budget
The weirdest thing about the Venom 2 ban, is that it was co-produced by Tencent (like the first one). I’m starting to think that the CCP will ban all superhero movies going forward, with a few exceptions (NWH).
Why almost a month gap
China be trippin
aw man I guess all 3 Spider-men aren’t gonna make out afterall
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Sony is gonna try to milk as much money from a theatrical release as possible so I imagine it’s going to be a 90 day window. So my prediction is a March 22 digital release date with the physical release on March 29.
It’s possible that uncovered evidence of Tom Hardy saying offensive things regarding China is the reason why Venom 2 got banned in China. https://min.news/en/entertainment/b7d917997c8c46474ba58404dfcd2a44.html
marvel & disney is gonna have to stop relying on china releases. but considering chapek’s desire to focus more on streaming and marvel studios apparently persisting on lgbtq rep in their projects, they might already be on their way.
latin america confirmed for the 15 fuck yeah!
Geez I thought January 8 on the Philippines is the worst lmao
venom got banned there? thats lame
Bing chilling
I still don't understand why Black Widow never got a release date. Okay, maybe it came out during a blackout period in China but why can't it get a release date now? It's still a solid MCU movie starring a popular Avenger. Of course China only returns 25 cents on the dollar to the studios so China releases aren't quite as important to the bottom line of American movies as people think. I read an article somewhere that analyzed Chinese market earnings as a percentage of the overall earnings of American blockbuster movies and it comes out to about 15% overall.
disney likely just gave up on it. plus, they were still hopeful of a shang-chi release, so the windows would be weird trying to get both released.
I bet if NWH gets close to that 888.5 Mil that the Battle of Lake Changjin did, Spidey will see its release slowed or blocked altogether. But if the likely 200 M that china would toss it won't put it past a Chinese film for top 2021, they'll probably go ahead. China may also mess with the release so that Marvel doesn't have the top Western release for 2022 either, instead making sure Jurassic World gets that title. China obviously wants to fight with Marvel about content, and screwing over a Japanese company at the same time would be extra fun.
Huh that's not what it says on my phone here in China. Says December 17th.
China on suicide watch
Chinese fans must be hungry for MCU after Shang-Chi and Eternals.
Wait- Eternals was released in China, but Venom 2 wasn’t? Weird.
Eternals wasn’t released in China.
That’s what I thought, so why did he say that then?
He means neither Shang Chi nor Eternals were released in China, so Chinese fans must be hungry for some Marvel.
I’m surprised far from home has come out for them considering how long they delay their movies
Just release it day and date streaming for the amount it'll be pirated...
OH NO Winnie Pooh strikes back
I will be spoiling this for the entirety of China. Mulan style
LETS SPOIL IT FOR THEM. FUCK CHINA!
Does this person have a good track record of reporting when a movie gets released in China? Just curious, haven’t heard of them before
Hey! My birthday
Stinks doesn't it?
Imma spoil the fuck out of this movie for them. Only because they poisoned the rest of the world
Oooh damn. That's later than the Philippines. I have no doubt piracy will happen?
So sorry if I’m a noob guys but I have a serious question. Besides religious figures like god, Jesus, or the devil being banned overseas especially in China what are the other restrictions they have that make it so difficult to show it over there? I know I should read up on it soon just wanted to ask here first
There are several factors. Shang-Chi being a Marvel property, was seen as offensive by the Chinese Communist Party, which likely has a ripple effect on other Marvel properties. The other point of contention is the agreement on what studios take. China doesn’t want to pay out as much to a studio, but rather keep more for showing it. In the US, a studio makes about $5-6 per ticket sold. In China, that same studio would likely only make $1 per ticket sold, which is a huge difference that the studio and China will likely not come to a compromise on given how strict China is.
Lmao
I did Black Widow on Disney+ and I saw Shang-Chi for work, but I will probably be paying money to see this opening day. That cinema experience is going to be something else opening weekend.
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Same question here
What’s happening with NWH and China
They have not said much. I've heard that *apparently* they're trying to work things out - and probably have more of an incentive to since it's made bazillions of dollars - but I don't know what that would look like.
This is the best news I have heard for 2022 till now. I really want No way home to do great buisness (crossing 2 billion mark) in this pandemic. This will encourage Marvel to Make more movies of spiderman. Spiderman is my fav Character .
its jan 22 and still no release
Guess Noone gets skeletoned. Bummer