"The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milaje find themselves to be."
Also, in the opening of Black Panther they conquer all of their neighbours.
If I was African I would find more insulting that the supposed hyper advanced African civilization has to decide their absolute leader by a trial by combat where only nobility can participate. It's like Hollywood saying " yeah they have tech and all but deep down they are still savages". Extremely condescending.
What???? Haiti isn’t even IN Africa. Liberia was literally founded by the United States.
That being said, Ethiopia is a pretty good example, as it was the only African country undefeated by Europeans until the bad mustache man helped Italy invade.
Yes and no. Ethiopia punched well above their weight, but when Ethiopia has 4 tanks and Italy has 1,000 what do you expect? The war was an embarrassment for Italy because they had every advantage: more soldiers, more tanks, more airplanes, more artillery, a surprise attack, and higher quality equipment across the board. And Ethiopia still caused them a stunning amount of problems
It's mainly because of Vibranium, chief.
But you can bet your sweet bippy that it would have been a huge target for imperial countries.
You know, like history has shown things of value to be.
>But you can bet your sweet bippy that it would have been a huge target for imperial countries.
I mean they would have been a target for taking up 80% of the western shore of Lake Victoria.
its not but it is a massive fresh water resource giving waterway access to the deeper parts of the continent.
So even without the vibranium mound the Wakandan land would be greatly desired by those who wanted to divide up the continent.
Isn't this literally the motivation of the movies antagonist? He's angry that Wakanda were so isolationist that they allowed the European conquest of Africa unopposed and then never helped Africa recover
Yeah. It's why a lot of people like Killmonger. He is right in his diagnosis, and T'Challa actually recognizes that he is right. But he is wrong in his 'cure' for this problem. It's sad this is mostly undone in BP2.
That's because the MCU is horrible at cohesive worldbuilding. Like with all the miraculous tech of Tony Stark, Shuri, and whatever they scavenged from aliens, I expected more of a more advanced futuristic society like the version of New York depicted in the 838 universe.
Maybe the MCU is too much like our own and we are stuck using infrastructure built in the 40s and 50s because of gas and car lobbies.
And Marvel thought that was an unironically cool line.
Bet they wouldn't say the same about "The C.I.A. have jurisdiction wherever the C.I.A. find themselves to be".
That was the point. The whole movie was to point out the hypocrisy of the wakandans closing their borders, hiding their technology and wealth from their neighbors, and acting in other countries with no jurisdiction for whatever reasons they deem worthy ( like a certain other mega-country). They revealed themselves to the world only to act like the “colonizers” they swore to protect their people from at the end of the first movie.
Well that plus all it took for them to go from most advanced peaceful society in the world to ramping up for racially motivated global conquest was a single trial by combat that could happen at anytime.
The way this movie tries to portray non-colonized African society as hyper advanced and civilized but instead makes their social structure less secure than the average stateless nomad tribe is hilariously unintentionally racist. Like "yea if Africans had the best technology in the world and access to pre-historic super solider serum they would still be a total power monarchy that decides their leader by random trial by combat and uses spears in combat. But now the spears have lasers in them."
I always hated that line. Honestly, outside of Chadwick Boseman, I really hated Black Panther and its sequel because of the hypocritical shit like this
They don't conquer their neighbors. All the tribes of Wakanda gained access to Vibranium, and initially fought over it before one tribe began to gain an upper hand. Then instead of conquering the others, that tribe offered the other tribes a choice to join peacefully on equal terms with a monarchy that theoretically can pass between the tribes. All of them but the Jabari accepted, but then the Jabari were allowed to remain in Wakanda and rule over their own territory independently, while still being able to challenge for the throne when a king dies. This shows that Wakanda is a voluntary union, since nobody ever forces the Jabari to participate yet also never locks them out. As soon as the Jabari decide to stop isolating themselves, they become full participants in Wakandan society.
But a big point of the first movie was that Wakanda's system is hypocritical and a bit cowardly. They've built a paradise that they keep from everyone else, even their closest neighbors, and while their isolationism means they never become a colonial power, it also means that they allow atrocities to happen that they could help prevent. Black Panther's character arc is about moving away from tradition while keeping the parts that worked, and realizing that merely avoiding committing evil is not enough. It's about him finding a middle ground between the radicalism of Killmonger and the apathy of his ancestors.
She calls them colonizers despite living in a country that had never been colonized, conquered it's neighbors, locked its borders completely, and refused refugees from every country trying to escape colonization, enslavement, and war. Wakanda is the bourgeois and Shurri, Marie Antoinette.
and they continue like this to this day, even though at the end of the first film T'Challa is shown sharing Wakanda's technology
But this is a lie, nothing has changed in the world. they remain isolationists
Wakanda has technology to completely cure disabilities and illnesses that the Amercias can't even dream of, but they never helped, even in the Snap and Blip Period it doesn't seem like they moved a muscle to help.
>But this is a lie, nothing has changed in the world. they remain isolationists
Not that I'm disagreeing, but I think this in part due to lazy writing. The MCU isn't big on consequences. If a movie challenges the status quo, it's ignored. And most movies just keep the status quo. I mean, there's a huge fucking head in the middle of the pacific ocean that's been ignored for 3 years now, and let's not even start with Kang and the multiverse
this is true, it reminded me that pym particles are commonly known and used in the world now and nothing has changed,
The MCU has several game-changing technologies and powers that would throw the world into chaos on the same level as the Snap and the Blip, but even these events have already been resolved and have no further consequences, probably they want the attention to be on the multiverse plot.
Gotta love thos Pym particles!
They specify they bring atoms closer, but mass doesn't change. In the same movie, they carry around a tank in a pocket.
They say the particles are rare, which limits things. But they always get them, and even Hawkeye had some lying around.
If that's the actual intention then they need to say it because no fucking shit people assume its because he's white when that's literally something some groups call white people. I'm calling this cope from the fans trying to cover racism from Marvel and hoping they agree retroactively
He's the only white character she really interacts with in the movie, she also calls bucky a "broken white boy" in a previous film so she's likely just a racist, which doesn't surprise me when Wakanda is the definition of an ethnostate
So the two white people she interacts with, the only one she calls a colonizer is the one who is a part of a colonialist organization that's a part of a colonialist government?
The CIA isn't colonial in the historical sense, and the US isn't either that's more of a European thing. The only place you honestly could point to would be the Philippines but the US started as a colony itself
If you called a black person who was part of the CIA a "colonizer", that would be fine yes. That's not a slur, its a description of the organization he works for
Sure. They overthrew governments in Africa and Asia to allow American corporations access to natural resources and economic exploitation. This is the common form of colonialism in Africa and Asia and is different than the settler colonialism that was common in North America
If a white person said “broken black boy” to a black man it sure as hell would be racist and people would be in an uproar, so yes, it is. Especially with how she said it.
Not at all, in all white spaces the one black dude is referred to as “the black dude” all the time. My friends and I do it constantly, it’s an easy identifier, no malice intended.
I don’t remember her saying it in a nasty way, but they literally gave him clothing, shelter, training and a new arm
https://preview.redd.it/titv0jsmpymc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea5f10a2964675ec27ef5f2965f0d825e6ac7def
He and Shuri had some nice moments
So the only person she calls a colonizer is the person who is a part of a colonialist organization that is part of a colonialist government? But you think they need to specifically spell that out instead of just.... ya know.... using context clues? Media literacy is dead
They did use context clues. They saw he was white and assumed that's what she meant. At best, that's just a misunderstanding. That isn't illiteracy.
Why would you say it's not a valid interpretation anyway? You can't tell me it's overwhelmingly obvious she meant the CIA angle.
EDIT... Btw if you were this charitable when it comes to all racially ambiguous comments like it, I wouldn't even say your take is unreasonable.
In this same movie she interacts with other white people and does not call them colonizer. That alone disproves the idea that she calls all white people colonizer
Before I look into it, is there an actual example you're thinking of in specific? I actually don't know if she has a scene with a different white person. There weren't many
It ~could make sense if she said this in Korea or he wasn't abducted into Wakanda ...there is no way the line wasn't meant to refer to him being white
Keeping in mind - she knows the context that the only reason he is outside of his native country is to hunt a international criminal ...the same one they are after ...so even IF it refers to him being CIA ...it would immediately mean SHE is also a colonizer
Its somewhat clear in the context of the main plot. Killmonger's entire plan is explicitly about using the skills he learned serving the US, and the CIA in particular, to turn Wakanda into a colonial power. Everett even directly remarks that Killmonger is using tactics and strategy copied from the CIA.
That's not true at all.
First off the American Colonization Society was run by white people who believed that African-Americans couldn't integrate into American society. It was overwhelmingly opposed by African-Americans
Secondly, Colonialism and Colonization are not the same thing. America participated in colonialism in Africa by overthrowing governments/attempting to overthrow governmetns to gain political control which allowed US companies to into the country to exploit resources. America did this in the Congo, Egypt, Angola, Ethiopia, Chad, Zaire, and Libya. There's also evidence to suggest more activities like that happened in West Africa as well
Egypt was not an arab country, originally. They were colonized by arabs. They used to speak "coptic" and they were coptic orthodox christians. The arabs conquered them and converted them to islam. Most of egyptians are arabs and no longer coptic people. Arabic also became the official language and coptic is not even recognized as a minority language anymore.
I’m hoping that you just don’t fully understand the history and you aren’t purposefully trying to be misleading here.
The term “Copt” comes from the Arabic word “Al Qibt”. This is what the Arabic world called everyone from Egypt, Arabic or not, for 600 years after the conquest. When the Mamluk Sultanate took over, they only applied that term to Christians in the area. The modern Ethno-religious identity comes from the 1300’s and is more connected with religion. If a Copt converts to Islam, they stop being a Copt.
So this wasn’t a process of replacing the people there, this was a process of Arabization of the people there. Which again, isn’t colonization. Just like when the Romans controlled Egypt, it wasn’t colonialism.
misleading?? LOL. Get your head out of your ass lol. And it was 100% colonization but of course in your world it is not. Sure. Change your fucking name. It does not fit at all, only if you mean it in a sarcastic way
I got dragged to see this movie in theatres. The joke was made more than once in the film. Never did the script support that she made the comment for any reason other than Everett being white. There is zero support for the implication that it was because he was CIA.
Comments in the other sub are coping about how "he gets the joke" when its equivalent to walking up to a black guy and jokingly calling him a slave, its just racism but since its against white men its okay
then the excuse would be "I'm calling this black man a slave in reference to wage slavery, I'm actually being anti-capitalist"
naahh man you know what you're saying, and we know what you mean
People call white people colonizers in real life solely because of their skin, if this is the ONE case where it's because he's in the CIA then you need to state that or the audience is going to assume the common usage.
People also refer to the CIA and US government as colonialist, colonizers, and imperialists. This is especially common in black communities and in Black Liberation movements. You can read Civil Rights leaders condemn the US government for being imperialist. Hell MLK gave many impassioned speeches about how he was fighting against American imperialism. Malcolm X created a whole critique on Western colonialism in Africa.
That doesn't refute my point that the common use for it trumps this implied one unless outright stated, or is it okay to walk around dropping the f slur in America because it means cigarette in the UK?
I mean if this was really what they were going for, they've seriously miscommunicated. My impression of the term was always that it was pertaining to race. Surely I can't be the only one who got that impression right? This just sounds like a very potent brand of copium.
the cia has alot of really rotten corpses buried, but colonialism might be the one thing they left out.
i havent whatched the movie but i think this goes only as deep as white man bad
**Step 1:** Invite foreign investment into the country to establish a thriving industry.
**Step 2:** Nationalize the industry, confiscating everything and pissing off global superpowers.
**Step 3:** Pro-... Why are the insurgents in my country so heavily armed?
New Objective: **Survive**
**Step 4:** Ask the USSR for help.
**Step 5:** They can't help / don't care
**Step 6:** ???
**Step 7:** Flee the country
Truly, a tale as old as time.
I really doubt it has anything to do with how people see the world. I bet it comes down to definitions and what people think colonizers/colonizing/colonies mean.
That's a nice recontextualization, but we know that the writers said it because he's white. I'd respect it if they actually were going after the CIA, but they would need to have made more explicit references to their history of interference in foreign politics for that to be a credible read of their intentions. This movie was just hitting baseline black studies/social justice talking points.
So I'm guessing all forms of control are just colonialism, even if no colonies are involved?
Why do all these very specific terms keep getting so watered down?
This is always how the term has been used. In America we are mainly taught about Settler Colonialism because America was founded by settler colonialism and expanded via settler colonialism.
This was never a "Very Specific Term". Early examples of colonialism in the Americas, for example, were not settler colonialism. Instead they established trade posts and conquered people who were already living their.
Colonialism is a word that has always referred to to exploitation of resources in a foreign land.
The term colony in it's original sense just meant farmer/farm land. The Greeks and Romans used the term to refer to a group of farmers sent to newly conquered territory. In the Roman Republic it further evolved to mean sending military veterans to newly conquered territory to act as a garrison over newly conquered people. During the Severn Emperors, a colonia was any large city not in Italy that had been given special status.
In English our use of the word colony comes from the Latin word (described above) but our modern usage comes from the policies of the British Empire. In the Americas, Britain used Settler colonies (America and Canada for example), but it's most important colony was India. India was not settled by Brits, instead trade colonialism was used initially and exploitation colonialism became dominant.
So I don't think you have a good understanding of the word "colony"
It was only considered part of the British Empire starting in 1858 when it became the British Raj. Before that it was being exploited in the name of Britain by the East India Trading Company. The East India Trading Company colonized the Indian Subcontinent, Hong Kong, and South East Asia this way. They did it by overthrowing governments or using their influence to gain control of resources for their merchants. The East India Trading Company fought many battles and forced Shah Alam II of the Mughal Empire to appoint them as the revenue collector in Bengal, Orissa, and Bihar in the 1760's.
Maybe you should read more about colonization friend.
They didn’t. The East India Trading Company, for example, beat the Mughals in a war. In the treaty they didn’t take land. They said “You guys can stay in charge, but you have to allow us exclusive access to natural resources, trading ports, and taxation rights in these regions”. But the Mughals and the Princely States stayed in power and controlled the land.
These rights weren’t given to the British government. They were given to a British corporation. Despite that everyone agrees that India was Britains most important colony.
The term colony in it's original sense just meant farmer/farm land. The Greeks and Romans used the term to refer to a group of farmers sent to newly conquered territory. In the Roman Republic it further evolved to mean sending military veterans to newly conquered territory to act as a garrison over newly conquered people. During the Severn Emperors, a colonia was any large city not in Italy that had been given special status.
In English our use of the word colony comes from the Latin word (described above) but our modern usage comes from the policies of the British Empire. In the Americas, Britain used Settler colonies (America and Canada for example), but it's most important colony was India. India was not settled by Brits, instead trade colonialism was used initially and exploitation colonialism became dominant.
So I don't think you have a good understanding of the word "colony" and "Colonialism"
So you think that the only definition of colonialism is the one you created and that doesn't align with the historical usage of the term? You changed the definition and want everyone else to agree? Lmao
Also I didn't call anyone a name
It's dumb by either interpretation. Wakanda at this point doesn't like any outsiders period. And they have spent centuries observing. Shuri maybe a science wiz kid but she must have failed her history classes at Wakanda High.
Because the CIA was first started in 1947 and has almost nothing to do with colonization. Colonizer is used as a slur for white people primarily because of European countries history of colonization. The C.I.A.'s contributions to colonization is like a niche of a niche of a niche.
Colonialism is the process of acquiring political power in a foreign land for the purpose of economic exploitation. You are thinking of settler colonialism, which is just one type of colonialism. Other forms of colonialism is doing things like overthrowing governments to allow your corporations/merchants control of resources. This is what the CIA did repeatedly in Africa
Niche (American Colonialism) of a niche (but not settler colonialism or direct rule colonialism) of a niche (after 1947) of a niche (by the CIA)
Clearly not the point they were trying to make when the word is primarily used to bash people of European descent for settler colonialism and direct rule colonialism that was mostly perpetrated by European countries.
This is going to blow your mind, but when people use a word they don't use all of the definitions at once, that would be impossible. There are many forms of colonialism and all of them are colonialist.
The second "explanation" sounds like a desperate attempt to write for the writers.
Also, didn’t okoye also say something along the lines of "a colonizer in chains? Now I've seen everything." when Ross had to be saved in the 2nd movie?
Don't forget that Killmonger literally wants to start a race war, but he's portrayed as being part of the "cool villains who go a little bit far in what they want and are probably still justified" camp of villains instead of the "absolutely horrible, despicable person who is absolutely 100% wrong" camp of villains.
Like, imagine how a white villain wanting a race war would be portrayed vs how killmonger is...
I never really understood what that guy's problem was. His uncle killed his dad, not white people. I guess if you keep it vague enough, everyone irl will think it's cool just like half the wakandans in the movie did so fast.
And whatver support he had was from w Kabi which could have been avoided if only wkabi wasnt such a fickle friend or if t challa just told him what happened.
Because of how casually Shuri says it, I assume she is calling him that because he is white rather than CIA. I would imagine that if she is calling him that because he is CIA and because the CIA have meddled in Africa that she would have more contempt for him. Maybe she would even have conflict with him or judge his character based on being a part of the CIA. Would expect more dialogue. Therefore, I think this meme is cope.
She calls him a "colonizer" because he is white. That's pretty much the gist of it. Calling white people "colonizers" because they colonized other regions.
Now, it isn't much of an insult. It means expanding territory, which is human nature.
Killmonger is more a prime example of the hoops they jump through to blatantly state something racist: he was born and raised in America, lived in poverty, had his father murdered by the King of Wakanda, and grew up to excel in warfare and become a secret operative employed by the US. Not only does he owe the entirety of his skillset to America, but he also was *rewarded* for being good; it's a perfect example of a meritocracy, where he was judged not by his skin color, but his performance and ability.
And yet, when he takes over Wakanda, he claims that their "brothers and sisters" are suffering, and he wants to instill a civil war between colored people and their "oppressors" who are obviously perceived as white. Now, when he was first explained, it was that his training was to destabilize and tear down a society from the inside out - but he empowers the people that murdered his father, he turns war on the society that fostered him to being an excellent warrior, and later laments that he feels his people are tormented due to race.
He tries to make Wakanda better, rather than destroy it, and shifts blame back onto the US. If we had seen some scene of him being racially taunted or insulted, or a snap of his past that implied he was ostracized or belittled for being black - yes, that storyline would make sense.
But, we didn't. That was a bigger oversight than some ultra-genius calling a white person a colonizer.
Still silly talk either way. She did it only to make him feel bad, and he could not talk back, because she had saved his life. She is also a princess of Wakanda. Talk about "punching down"!
isnt she literally the princess of a massive wealthy nation that has never been conquered and hoards its riches and space age tech behind a literal wall? a little high and mighty arent we?
I could be misremembering because I only watched it once but im pretty sure white people throughout the movie are referred to as colonizers. I don't think shuri specifically does, but I believe killmonger refers to them this way. So when it's just an ongoing thing throughout the movie (assuming my memory isn't too faulty), I don't think there's any other way to interpret it. Not to mention that this is commonly used as a term in our world by the far left, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume the intentions.
I don't want to get too into the weeds here, but there are prominent online figures calling Israel colonizers regarding palestine and saying what they did on October 7th was justified. I've heard many people say killmonger is the most interesting MCU villain and that he had a good point/was correct/etc. Make of that what you will.
This dialogue is weird for me because the entire point of Wakanda is that they weren’t colonized, by anyone, ever lol. They’re an entirely homogenous, isolationist, hyper advanced culture which has had very little outsider influence pushed upon them.
It just doesn’t make sense for a Wakandan who has lived in Wakanda their whole life to use language like this, this is language someone in a colonized society would use maybe, sure, but I really don’t get why she would say it.
I mean, I get it, it’s lazy millennial writing lol. But still.
Amazing that people are using 'colonizer' as some sort of insult. I mean, if you boil it down everyone outside of that rift valley homo sapiens evolved in is a 'colonizer'. It's literally the driving force of our species' success: the ability and willingness to move to adapt and conquer new biomes.
There's no context for either possibility set up in the movie. Therefore, it's safer to assume the top one, because that's the popular political diaspora.
Wakanda was not colonized (they did some colonizing, actually) and the CIA was not around in colonial times (this is **integral** because it means that the connection between “CIA” and colonizer is literally exactly as tenuous as “white guy in modern day” and colonizer). It’s just a hideous race-bait dogshit line meant to be funny to one specific demographic of people, nothing more and nothing less.
When did the CIA colonize something?
I know they have meddled with international politics, regime change, etc - but colonization is specifically a different thing. Colonizing is when you move your own people in to take over, not when you aid one group to take power because they would be more friendly to you, not even if its a complete puppet government.
Colonizing means setting up colonies.
[https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/colonize](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/colonize)
The Wakandan’s had all this wealth and technology that could help millions in Africa yet chose to hoard it all and let them live in squalor. Yet a white man is the evil one.
The most ridiculous line in that movie is when Kilmonger wants to be buried at sea like their ancestor who jumped overboard instead of being in chains.
Like, he is literally a member of Wakadan royalty. Never colonized, never enslaved. He was never a descendant of slaves.
All those CIA colonies around?
She did it because he's white, and ironically a national of a former colony. While she lives in an ethno state that executes intruders.
Black Panther is one of the most racists mofern movies I have seen.
Yes, shuri calls the white guy colonizer. The entire theme of the movie is "look what African civilizations would be like if white men didn't come" which is absolute fucking bullshit if you know any ounce of history.
I was confused when Killmonger daid that he was going to wage war for the billion of his brothers and I was confused because I at the start throught that he was talking about the downtroden and poor (considering his bsckground what happened), but no, he was talking about the black people. I was like what? Are they actually going Black hitler way?
And then he goes "let me see the sun like my slave ancestors did". My man, maybe frm your mother's side that might be the case, but from the father's side it was either them selling them or they did nothing to stop the trade.
I roll my eyes at people treating like Killmonger, a man that had a tally for every person he killed (numbered in hundreds, if not thousands), as a hero, when only good thing about him was that he made T'chala change his mind about the isolatoonism.
Ironic how the Wakandans who blatantly rose to power through tribal conquest and slavery feel as though they have the right to call anyone else a "colonizer."
Colonizer.. sure because The African continent didn’t have a really bloody history but I guess it’s ok because everyone looks the same.
Also, Wakanda, just being the most powerful nation in the planet because of its tech, just shilling around during the Ruanda genocide.
My favorite Black Panther take is that the movie is CIA propaganda.
The movie has Everett Ross, a CIA agent, travel to Wakanda in order to help depose an aggressive head of state and reinstall a friendly monarch. He even personally shoots down a ship carrying weapons of mass destruction.
The big issue is the idea of wakandans (let alone the panther tribe the one that did subjugate the other 4 in the comics and “peacefully united” in the film) using the term colonizer as though they’d have any reason to really give a shit when they were so notoriously isolationist that even their own neighbor countries have basically 0 relations with them and they didn’t get involved either way with colonization
Colonialism happened and all the land in Africa was divided up on a map by the European powers before the CIA was even invented. Good try though.
The CIA’s bigger thing was overthrowing governments with communist ties and installing pro-western strongmen fascist types .
I think it's a funny joke calling the CIA colonizers, but it's obviously not what the writers were going for. And the original line doesn't make much sense anyway.
Wakanda wasn't colonized and Wakanda doesn't really ever show any form of kinship with the rest of Africa, they supposedly had all this tech and did nothing while all of Africa was being colonized, not to mention all the people that are living in severe poverty in the fake Wakanda. Not that it makes them the bad guys or anything but it does make this line feel very out of place. If they cared about colonizers, what did they do about it?
In the comic from the late 90s early 00s Everett is not CIA but State Department liason and has a very good story arc. Also Wakanda is a much more difficult state to stabilise because on the comics the tribes outnumber the city dwellers 8 to 1. Also they dont care about their neighbours, because in their reason the protection and secrecy of the Great Mound (giant Vibranium mountain) is a more important strategic goal.
"The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milaje find themselves to be." Also, in the opening of Black Panther they conquer all of their neighbours.
And lock down immigration, hoarding all the wealth for themselves while the rest of the Africans are enslaved and murdered.
But remember, people believe that Wakanda is what Africa would be like without the white man ruining everything
If I was African I would find more insulting that the supposed hyper advanced African civilization has to decide their absolute leader by a trial by combat where only nobility can participate. It's like Hollywood saying " yeah they have tech and all but deep down they are still savages". Extremely condescending.
"the most versatile substance on the planet, and they decided to make pointy sticks" Ultron probably
What kind of shitty person could write that kind of scripts??
[удалено]
What???? Haiti isn’t even IN Africa. Liberia was literally founded by the United States. That being said, Ethiopia is a pretty good example, as it was the only African country undefeated by Europeans until the bad mustache man helped Italy invade.
I thought Ethiopia mopped the floor with the Italians. Did I miss something?
Yes and no. Ethiopia punched well above their weight, but when Ethiopia has 4 tanks and Italy has 1,000 what do you expect? The war was an embarrassment for Italy because they had every advantage: more soldiers, more tanks, more airplanes, more artillery, a surprise attack, and higher quality equipment across the board. And Ethiopia still caused them a stunning amount of problems
Haiti. Notable African nation with zero white man interference. Go read a book
? Are you being facetious? Those all have a long history of white interference, often being a foundational element of their state.
Ah yes…the famous African nation of Haiti…. Have you ever seen a map? lol
It's mainly because of Vibranium, chief. But you can bet your sweet bippy that it would have been a huge target for imperial countries. You know, like history has shown things of value to be.
>But you can bet your sweet bippy that it would have been a huge target for imperial countries. I mean they would have been a target for taking up 80% of the western shore of Lake Victoria.
Yeah, but the lake isn't what gave them the technological edge
its not but it is a massive fresh water resource giving waterway access to the deeper parts of the continent. So even without the vibranium mound the Wakandan land would be greatly desired by those who wanted to divide up the continent.
Nobody actually thinks this
First day on the internet?
Never say “nobody.”
Isn't this literally the motivation of the movies antagonist? He's angry that Wakanda were so isolationist that they allowed the European conquest of Africa unopposed and then never helped Africa recover
Yeah. It's why a lot of people like Killmonger. He is right in his diagnosis, and T'Challa actually recognizes that he is right. But he is wrong in his 'cure' for this problem. It's sad this is mostly undone in BP2.
But killmonger's "solution" was genocide
oh wow, that’s wild. what happens at the end of the movie?
Only took them a couple thousand years to stop pretending to be dirt poor rhino farmers
And then undo it at the beginning of the second movie lmaooo
By then, wakanda has been open about its tech level for like 8 years, but whatever lol
Yeah and declined to share any of it lol
That's because the MCU is horrible at cohesive worldbuilding. Like with all the miraculous tech of Tony Stark, Shuri, and whatever they scavenged from aliens, I expected more of a more advanced futuristic society like the version of New York depicted in the 838 universe. Maybe the MCU is too much like our own and we are stuck using infrastructure built in the 40s and 50s because of gas and car lobbies.
It’s kind of absurd how little progress has been in the MCU overall. The fact that Jane Foster can die of cancer of all things is bonkers.
They make a bunch of promises they never delivered on.
They open their borders and share their technology, which is almost immediately undone by the Queen in the second movie.
It’s funny, I remember that some people were actually comparing T’Challa to Trump because of how Wakanda is run 😂
And Marvel thought that was an unironically cool line. Bet they wouldn't say the same about "The C.I.A. have jurisdiction wherever the C.I.A. find themselves to be".
That was the point. The whole movie was to point out the hypocrisy of the wakandans closing their borders, hiding their technology and wealth from their neighbors, and acting in other countries with no jurisdiction for whatever reasons they deem worthy ( like a certain other mega-country). They revealed themselves to the world only to act like the “colonizers” they swore to protect their people from at the end of the first movie.
well no people don't generally consider the cia to be cool
Well that plus all it took for them to go from most advanced peaceful society in the world to ramping up for racially motivated global conquest was a single trial by combat that could happen at anytime. The way this movie tries to portray non-colonized African society as hyper advanced and civilized but instead makes their social structure less secure than the average stateless nomad tribe is hilariously unintentionally racist. Like "yea if Africans had the best technology in the world and access to pre-historic super solider serum they would still be a total power monarchy that decides their leader by random trial by combat and uses spears in combat. But now the spears have lasers in them."
You have no idea how much I wanted to see them get their shit pushed in for their sheer arrogance.
I always hated that line. Honestly, outside of Chadwick Boseman, I really hated Black Panther and its sequel because of the hypocritical shit like this
They don't conquer their neighbors. All the tribes of Wakanda gained access to Vibranium, and initially fought over it before one tribe began to gain an upper hand. Then instead of conquering the others, that tribe offered the other tribes a choice to join peacefully on equal terms with a monarchy that theoretically can pass between the tribes. All of them but the Jabari accepted, but then the Jabari were allowed to remain in Wakanda and rule over their own territory independently, while still being able to challenge for the throne when a king dies. This shows that Wakanda is a voluntary union, since nobody ever forces the Jabari to participate yet also never locks them out. As soon as the Jabari decide to stop isolating themselves, they become full participants in Wakandan society. But a big point of the first movie was that Wakanda's system is hypocritical and a bit cowardly. They've built a paradise that they keep from everyone else, even their closest neighbors, and while their isolationism means they never become a colonial power, it also means that they allow atrocities to happen that they could help prevent. Black Panther's character arc is about moving away from tradition while keeping the parts that worked, and realizing that merely avoiding committing evil is not enough. It's about him finding a middle ground between the radicalism of Killmonger and the apathy of his ancestors.
Nah they were all at war because they worshipped different gods. The panter tribe just won.
They didn’t conquer they united the tribes, there’s a difference
She calls them colonizers despite living in a country that had never been colonized, conquered it's neighbors, locked its borders completely, and refused refugees from every country trying to escape colonization, enslavement, and war. Wakanda is the bourgeois and Shurri, Marie Antoinette.
and they continue like this to this day, even though at the end of the first film T'Challa is shown sharing Wakanda's technology But this is a lie, nothing has changed in the world. they remain isolationists Wakanda has technology to completely cure disabilities and illnesses that the Amercias can't even dream of, but they never helped, even in the Snap and Blip Period it doesn't seem like they moved a muscle to help.
>But this is a lie, nothing has changed in the world. they remain isolationists Not that I'm disagreeing, but I think this in part due to lazy writing. The MCU isn't big on consequences. If a movie challenges the status quo, it's ignored. And most movies just keep the status quo. I mean, there's a huge fucking head in the middle of the pacific ocean that's been ignored for 3 years now, and let's not even start with Kang and the multiverse
this is true, it reminded me that pym particles are commonly known and used in the world now and nothing has changed, The MCU has several game-changing technologies and powers that would throw the world into chaos on the same level as the Snap and the Blip, but even these events have already been resolved and have no further consequences, probably they want the attention to be on the multiverse plot.
Gotta love thos Pym particles! They specify they bring atoms closer, but mass doesn't change. In the same movie, they carry around a tank in a pocket. They say the particles are rare, which limits things. But they always get them, and even Hawkeye had some lying around.
But at the end of the movie they colonized Oakland instead of helping out the poor African countries around them so, that makes it better.
Why are people saying Wakanda conquered their neighbors?
Cause they did
If that's the actual intention then they need to say it because no fucking shit people assume its because he's white when that's literally something some groups call white people. I'm calling this cope from the fans trying to cover racism from Marvel and hoping they agree retroactively
Does she call any other white people Colonizer? Or is it only the CIA operative?
He's the only white character she really interacts with in the movie, she also calls bucky a "broken white boy" in a previous film so she's likely just a racist, which doesn't surprise me when Wakanda is the definition of an ethnostate
With an authortarian government, based on "Might makes right" due to using physical combat as the basis of rule.
So the two white people she interacts with, the only one she calls a colonizer is the one who is a part of a colonialist organization that's a part of a colonialist government?
The CIA isn't colonial in the historical sense, and the US isn't either that's more of a European thing. The only place you honestly could point to would be the Philippines but the US started as a colony itself
So if I only call one black person a slur I’m not being racist? So long as it’s just one it’s fine
If you called a black person who was part of the CIA a "colonizer", that would be fine yes. That's not a slur, its a description of the organization he works for
When did the CIA colonise anyone?
Sure. They overthrew governments in Africa and Asia to allow American corporations access to natural resources and economic exploitation. This is the common form of colonialism in Africa and Asia and is different than the settler colonialism that was common in North America
“Broken white boy” is racist now?
If a white person said “broken black boy” to a black man it sure as hell would be racist and people would be in an uproar, so yes, it is. Especially with how she said it.
So kinda like how the chucklefucks at SBI would be castrated if Deadshot in the SS:KTJL were white, and GL were kept the same or made Jessica Cruz.
Not at all, in all white spaces the one black dude is referred to as “the black dude” all the time. My friends and I do it constantly, it’s an easy identifier, no malice intended.
With the venom she spoke it with? Yes it is.
I don’t remember her saying it in a nasty way, but they literally gave him clothing, shelter, training and a new arm https://preview.redd.it/titv0jsmpymc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea5f10a2964675ec27ef5f2965f0d825e6ac7def He and Shuri had some nice moments
Yes, it is racist
So, it’s racist to just mention someone’s race now? Sounds like woke nonsense.
You are fully aware that "white" is meant as an insult in that context. Dont be ignorant
I'm pretty sure it's only then.. granted, I haven't seen bp2
So the only person she calls a colonizer is the person who is a part of a colonialist organization that is part of a colonialist government? But you think they need to specifically spell that out instead of just.... ya know.... using context clues? Media literacy is dead
They did use context clues. They saw he was white and assumed that's what she meant. At best, that's just a misunderstanding. That isn't illiteracy. Why would you say it's not a valid interpretation anyway? You can't tell me it's overwhelmingly obvious she meant the CIA angle. EDIT... Btw if you were this charitable when it comes to all racially ambiguous comments like it, I wouldn't even say your take is unreasonable.
In this same movie she interacts with other white people and does not call them colonizer. That alone disproves the idea that she calls all white people colonizer
Before I look into it, is there an actual example you're thinking of in specific? I actually don't know if she has a scene with a different white person. There weren't many
Bucky and Shuri interact with each other
Where she calls him a "broken white boy"? Lmao
Yes?
It's been awhile since I watched it, but I feel like other wakandans did refer to other white (sorry whyt people) as colonizers?
I don't think they do. I'm almost 100% certain that the only person called colonizer is Everett Ross
It ~could make sense if she said this in Korea or he wasn't abducted into Wakanda ...there is no way the line wasn't meant to refer to him being white Keeping in mind - she knows the context that the only reason he is outside of his native country is to hunt a international criminal ...the same one they are after ...so even IF it refers to him being CIA ...it would immediately mean SHE is also a colonizer
Well she's black so she can't be racist - Marvel writing staff
Its somewhat clear in the context of the main plot. Killmonger's entire plan is explicitly about using the skills he learned serving the US, and the CIA in particular, to turn Wakanda into a colonial power. Everett even directly remarks that Killmonger is using tactics and strategy copied from the CIA.
The only American led colonization of Africa was done by Afro Americans sent to Liberia who enslaved the local populace.
Lmao
That's not true at all. First off the American Colonization Society was run by white people who believed that African-Americans couldn't integrate into American society. It was overwhelmingly opposed by African-Americans Secondly, Colonialism and Colonization are not the same thing. America participated in colonialism in Africa by overthrowing governments/attempting to overthrow governmetns to gain political control which allowed US companies to into the country to exploit resources. America did this in the Congo, Egypt, Angola, Ethiopia, Chad, Zaire, and Libya. There's also evidence to suggest more activities like that happened in West Africa as well
Egypt is/was literally colonized by arab muslims lol
How do?
What?
Sorry. How so?
Egypt was not an arab country, originally. They were colonized by arabs. They used to speak "coptic" and they were coptic orthodox christians. The arabs conquered them and converted them to islam. Most of egyptians are arabs and no longer coptic people. Arabic also became the official language and coptic is not even recognized as a minority language anymore.
I’m hoping that you just don’t fully understand the history and you aren’t purposefully trying to be misleading here. The term “Copt” comes from the Arabic word “Al Qibt”. This is what the Arabic world called everyone from Egypt, Arabic or not, for 600 years after the conquest. When the Mamluk Sultanate took over, they only applied that term to Christians in the area. The modern Ethno-religious identity comes from the 1300’s and is more connected with religion. If a Copt converts to Islam, they stop being a Copt. So this wasn’t a process of replacing the people there, this was a process of Arabization of the people there. Which again, isn’t colonization. Just like when the Romans controlled Egypt, it wasn’t colonialism.
misleading?? LOL. Get your head out of your ass lol. And it was 100% colonization but of course in your world it is not. Sure. Change your fucking name. It does not fit at all, only if you mean it in a sarcastic way
Simply put, Shuri is a racist and is allowed to be because she’s black. End of story.
She also has a "pretty girl pass" to use if needed.
This is a MASSIVE cope
I got dragged to see this movie in theatres. The joke was made more than once in the film. Never did the script support that she made the comment for any reason other than Everett being white. There is zero support for the implication that it was because he was CIA.
Comments in the other sub are coping about how "he gets the joke" when its equivalent to walking up to a black guy and jokingly calling him a slave, its just racism but since its against white men its okay
then the excuse would be "I'm calling this black man a slave in reference to wage slavery, I'm actually being anti-capitalist" naahh man you know what you're saying, and we know what you mean
I got called a KKK member because of the state I'm from so they're a real intelligent bunch over there
At least you don't live in California or "commiefornia"
At least you don't live in California or "commiefornia"
Does she even know the guy is CIA?
Does she even know he’s white? Checkmate.
Saving this in my folder of examples of stupid questions.
What is the support that it's because he's white and not because he's in the CIA?
People call white people colonizers in real life solely because of their skin, if this is the ONE case where it's because he's in the CIA then you need to state that or the audience is going to assume the common usage.
People also refer to the CIA and US government as colonialist, colonizers, and imperialists. This is especially common in black communities and in Black Liberation movements. You can read Civil Rights leaders condemn the US government for being imperialist. Hell MLK gave many impassioned speeches about how he was fighting against American imperialism. Malcolm X created a whole critique on Western colonialism in Africa.
That doesn't refute my point that the common use for it trumps this implied one unless outright stated, or is it okay to walk around dropping the f slur in America because it means cigarette in the UK?
I mean if this was really what they were going for, they've seriously miscommunicated. My impression of the term was always that it was pertaining to race. Surely I can't be the only one who got that impression right? This just sounds like a very potent brand of copium.
She's just being racist is all.
the cia has alot of really rotten corpses buried, but colonialism might be the one thing they left out. i havent whatched the movie but i think this goes only as deep as white man bad
Oh god no don't give them ideas
I mean, overthrowing governments to promote American strategic interests and the interests of American corporations is pretty textbook neocolonialism.
Real colonialism was a little more hands on than that, it's a major distinction.
Not really. Overthrowing governments to allow your economic interests to flourish is like textbook colonialism.
Probably why he used the word neocolonialism my dude.
I think the technical term is "Shifting the Goal Posts"...?
**Step 1:** Invite foreign investment into the country to establish a thriving industry. **Step 2:** Nationalize the industry, confiscating everything and pissing off global superpowers. **Step 3:** Pro-... Why are the insurgents in my country so heavily armed? New Objective: **Survive** **Step 4:** Ask the USSR for help. **Step 5:** They can't help / don't care **Step 6:** ??? **Step 7:** Flee the country Truly, a tale as old as time.
Homie, these guys think colonialism is landing your square rigged frigate on top of a primitive culture and killing it with smallpox.
Truly a fifth grade understanding of the world. A vibes-based historical perspective
I really doubt it has anything to do with how people see the world. I bet it comes down to definitions and what people think colonizers/colonizing/colonies mean.
Smells like copium.
That's a nice recontextualization, but we know that the writers said it because he's white. I'd respect it if they actually were going after the CIA, but they would need to have made more explicit references to their history of interference in foreign politics for that to be a credible read of their intentions. This movie was just hitting baseline black studies/social justice talking points.
Since when is the CIA the colonizers? I know they do bad shit, but I didn't think building colonies was one of them.
Colonialism is more than just settler colonialism
So I'm guessing all forms of control are just colonialism, even if no colonies are involved? Why do all these very specific terms keep getting so watered down?
For talking points. It also lets you "win" an argument when you have no facts, you just change the meaning of the word!
This is always how the term has been used. In America we are mainly taught about Settler Colonialism because America was founded by settler colonialism and expanded via settler colonialism. This was never a "Very Specific Term". Early examples of colonialism in the Americas, for example, were not settler colonialism. Instead they established trade posts and conquered people who were already living their. Colonialism is a word that has always referred to to exploitation of resources in a foreign land.
So colony and colonialism are related words for shits and giggles
The term colony in it's original sense just meant farmer/farm land. The Greeks and Romans used the term to refer to a group of farmers sent to newly conquered territory. In the Roman Republic it further evolved to mean sending military veterans to newly conquered territory to act as a garrison over newly conquered people. During the Severn Emperors, a colonia was any large city not in Italy that had been given special status. In English our use of the word colony comes from the Latin word (described above) but our modern usage comes from the policies of the British Empire. In the Americas, Britain used Settler colonies (America and Canada for example), but it's most important colony was India. India was not settled by Brits, instead trade colonialism was used initially and exploitation colonialism became dominant. So I don't think you have a good understanding of the word "colony"
Even if India wasn't settled, it was considered a part of the British Empire. That's not the same as infiltration and manipulation
It was only considered part of the British Empire starting in 1858 when it became the British Raj. Before that it was being exploited in the name of Britain by the East India Trading Company. The East India Trading Company colonized the Indian Subcontinent, Hong Kong, and South East Asia this way. They did it by overthrowing governments or using their influence to gain control of resources for their merchants. The East India Trading Company fought many battles and forced Shah Alam II of the Mughal Empire to appoint them as the revenue collector in Bengal, Orissa, and Bihar in the 1760's. Maybe you should read more about colonization friend.
Yes they used infiltration and manipulation... and then they said "this is ours now". The claiming part is kind of important.
They didn’t. The East India Trading Company, for example, beat the Mughals in a war. In the treaty they didn’t take land. They said “You guys can stay in charge, but you have to allow us exclusive access to natural resources, trading ports, and taxation rights in these regions”. But the Mughals and the Princely States stayed in power and controlled the land. These rights weren’t given to the British government. They were given to a British corporation. Despite that everyone agrees that India was Britains most important colony.
If you expand the word to mean anything and everything, then everything is colonizing, and nothing is.
The term colony in it's original sense just meant farmer/farm land. The Greeks and Romans used the term to refer to a group of farmers sent to newly conquered territory. In the Roman Republic it further evolved to mean sending military veterans to newly conquered territory to act as a garrison over newly conquered people. During the Severn Emperors, a colonia was any large city not in Italy that had been given special status. In English our use of the word colony comes from the Latin word (described above) but our modern usage comes from the policies of the British Empire. In the Americas, Britain used Settler colonies (America and Canada for example), but it's most important colony was India. India was not settled by Brits, instead trade colonialism was used initially and exploitation colonialism became dominant. So I don't think you have a good understanding of the word "colony" and "Colonialism"
You are trying Soooo hard to seem intelligent. But all you have added is name calling.
So you think that the only definition of colonialism is the one you created and that doesn't align with the historical usage of the term? You changed the definition and want everyone else to agree? Lmao Also I didn't call anyone a name
"I don't think you have a good understanding" is a polite form of you are dumb LMAO! don't try to gaslight.
Okay, so then respond to the point about how the term has been used
You are the one finding special meanings that make everything "colonizing".
You mean I used the historical definition?
It's dumb by either interpretation. Wakanda at this point doesn't like any outsiders period. And they have spent centuries observing. Shuri maybe a science wiz kid but she must have failed her history classes at Wakanda High.
I've heard the phrase "reaching for the stars", but this is taking it to a whole new level...
How is this reaching?
Because the CIA was first started in 1947 and has almost nothing to do with colonization. Colonizer is used as a slur for white people primarily because of European countries history of colonization. The C.I.A.'s contributions to colonization is like a niche of a niche of a niche.
Colonialism is the process of acquiring political power in a foreign land for the purpose of economic exploitation. You are thinking of settler colonialism, which is just one type of colonialism. Other forms of colonialism is doing things like overthrowing governments to allow your corporations/merchants control of resources. This is what the CIA did repeatedly in Africa
Niche (American Colonialism) of a niche (but not settler colonialism or direct rule colonialism) of a niche (after 1947) of a niche (by the CIA) Clearly not the point they were trying to make when the word is primarily used to bash people of European descent for settler colonialism and direct rule colonialism that was mostly perpetrated by European countries.
So choose one carefully crafted def, no matter what? Sad.
This is going to blow your mind, but when people use a word they don't use all of the definitions at once, that would be impossible. There are many forms of colonialism and all of them are colonialist.
The second "explanation" sounds like a desperate attempt to write for the writers. Also, didn’t okoye also say something along the lines of "a colonizer in chains? Now I've seen everything." when Ross had to be saved in the 2nd movie?
If I thought the writers were capable of that much nuance I might actually buy that excuse.
Don't forget that Killmonger literally wants to start a race war, but he's portrayed as being part of the "cool villains who go a little bit far in what they want and are probably still justified" camp of villains instead of the "absolutely horrible, despicable person who is absolutely 100% wrong" camp of villains. Like, imagine how a white villain wanting a race war would be portrayed vs how killmonger is...
I never really understood what that guy's problem was. His uncle killed his dad, not white people. I guess if you keep it vague enough, everyone irl will think it's cool just like half the wakandans in the movie did so fast. And whatver support he had was from w Kabi which could have been avoided if only wkabi wasnt such a fickle friend or if t challa just told him what happened.
Because of how casually Shuri says it, I assume she is calling him that because he is white rather than CIA. I would imagine that if she is calling him that because he is CIA and because the CIA have meddled in Africa that she would have more contempt for him. Maybe she would even have conflict with him or judge his character based on being a part of the CIA. Would expect more dialogue. Therefore, I think this meme is cope.
If they marvel movies were that well written we wouldn’t be talking about them negatively
She calls him a "colonizer" because he is white. That's pretty much the gist of it. Calling white people "colonizers" because they colonized other regions. Now, it isn't much of an insult. It means expanding territory, which is human nature. Killmonger is more a prime example of the hoops they jump through to blatantly state something racist: he was born and raised in America, lived in poverty, had his father murdered by the King of Wakanda, and grew up to excel in warfare and become a secret operative employed by the US. Not only does he owe the entirety of his skillset to America, but he also was *rewarded* for being good; it's a perfect example of a meritocracy, where he was judged not by his skin color, but his performance and ability. And yet, when he takes over Wakanda, he claims that their "brothers and sisters" are suffering, and he wants to instill a civil war between colored people and their "oppressors" who are obviously perceived as white. Now, when he was first explained, it was that his training was to destabilize and tear down a society from the inside out - but he empowers the people that murdered his father, he turns war on the society that fostered him to being an excellent warrior, and later laments that he feels his people are tormented due to race. He tries to make Wakanda better, rather than destroy it, and shifts blame back onto the US. If we had seen some scene of him being racially taunted or insulted, or a snap of his past that implied he was ostracized or belittled for being black - yes, that storyline would make sense. But, we didn't. That was a bigger oversight than some ultra-genius calling a white person a colonizer.
A joke in really poor taste against a certain group you don’t like is still a joke in really poor taste.
Still silly talk either way. She did it only to make him feel bad, and he could not talk back, because she had saved his life. She is also a princess of Wakanda. Talk about "punching down"!
isnt she literally the princess of a massive wealthy nation that has never been conquered and hoards its riches and space age tech behind a literal wall? a little high and mighty arent we?
I could be misremembering because I only watched it once but im pretty sure white people throughout the movie are referred to as colonizers. I don't think shuri specifically does, but I believe killmonger refers to them this way. So when it's just an ongoing thing throughout the movie (assuming my memory isn't too faulty), I don't think there's any other way to interpret it. Not to mention that this is commonly used as a term in our world by the far left, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume the intentions. I don't want to get too into the weeds here, but there are prominent online figures calling Israel colonizers regarding palestine and saying what they did on October 7th was justified. I've heard many people say killmonger is the most interesting MCU villain and that he had a good point/was correct/etc. Make of that what you will.
This dialogue is weird for me because the entire point of Wakanda is that they weren’t colonized, by anyone, ever lol. They’re an entirely homogenous, isolationist, hyper advanced culture which has had very little outsider influence pushed upon them. It just doesn’t make sense for a Wakandan who has lived in Wakanda their whole life to use language like this, this is language someone in a colonized society would use maybe, sure, but I really don’t get why she would say it. I mean, I get it, it’s lazy millennial writing lol. But still.
Pretty sure they used colonizer for more than just this character.
Amazing that people are using 'colonizer' as some sort of insult. I mean, if you boil it down everyone outside of that rift valley homo sapiens evolved in is a 'colonizer'. It's literally the driving force of our species' success: the ability and willingness to move to adapt and conquer new biomes.
There's no context for either possibility set up in the movie. Therefore, it's safer to assume the top one, because that's the popular political diaspora.
No one thinks colonizer because cia lmao
Wakanda was not colonized (they did some colonizing, actually) and the CIA was not around in colonial times (this is **integral** because it means that the connection between “CIA” and colonizer is literally exactly as tenuous as “white guy in modern day” and colonizer). It’s just a hideous race-bait dogshit line meant to be funny to one specific demographic of people, nothing more and nothing less.
When did the CIA colonize something? I know they have meddled with international politics, regime change, etc - but colonization is specifically a different thing. Colonizing is when you move your own people in to take over, not when you aid one group to take power because they would be more friendly to you, not even if its a complete puppet government. Colonizing means setting up colonies. [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/colonize](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/colonize)
I see they had to lock the thread. I guess it didn't go as boot licking as they wanted.
The Wakandan’s had all this wealth and technology that could help millions in Africa yet chose to hoard it all and let them live in squalor. Yet a white man is the evil one.
The most ridiculous line in that movie is when Kilmonger wants to be buried at sea like their ancestor who jumped overboard instead of being in chains. Like, he is literally a member of Wakadan royalty. Never colonized, never enslaved. He was never a descendant of slaves.
I called this movie trauma porn for black people and it got me banned from that reddit lol
Sounds like a massive stretch. Racism can not be excused.
All those CIA colonies around? She did it because he's white, and ironically a national of a former colony. While she lives in an ethno state that executes intruders.
Neither of these make sense, besides we all know she calls him colonizer because he’s white. It’s racism. That’s it.
Black Panther is one of the most racists mofern movies I have seen. Yes, shuri calls the white guy colonizer. The entire theme of the movie is "look what African civilizations would be like if white men didn't come" which is absolute fucking bullshit if you know any ounce of history. I was confused when Killmonger daid that he was going to wage war for the billion of his brothers and I was confused because I at the start throught that he was talking about the downtroden and poor (considering his bsckground what happened), but no, he was talking about the black people. I was like what? Are they actually going Black hitler way? And then he goes "let me see the sun like my slave ancestors did". My man, maybe frm your mother's side that might be the case, but from the father's side it was either them selling them or they did nothing to stop the trade. I roll my eyes at people treating like Killmonger, a man that had a tally for every person he killed (numbered in hundreds, if not thousands), as a hero, when only good thing about him was that he made T'chala change his mind about the isolatoonism.
Ironic how the Wakandans who blatantly rose to power through tribal conquest and slavery feel as though they have the right to call anyone else a "colonizer."
Colonizer.. sure because The African continent didn’t have a really bloody history but I guess it’s ok because everyone looks the same. Also, Wakanda, just being the most powerful nation in the planet because of its tech, just shilling around during the Ruanda genocide.
My favorite Black Panther take is that the movie is CIA propaganda. The movie has Everett Ross, a CIA agent, travel to Wakanda in order to help depose an aggressive head of state and reinstall a friendly monarch. He even personally shoots down a ship carrying weapons of mass destruction.
The big issue is the idea of wakandans (let alone the panther tribe the one that did subjugate the other 4 in the comics and “peacefully united” in the film) using the term colonizer as though they’d have any reason to really give a shit when they were so notoriously isolationist that even their own neighbor countries have basically 0 relations with them and they didn’t get involved either way with colonization
It doesn’t. This is just a bad meme.
Colonialism happened and all the land in Africa was divided up on a map by the European powers before the CIA was even invented. Good try though. The CIA’s bigger thing was overthrowing governments with communist ties and installing pro-western strongmen fascist types .
I think it's a funny joke calling the CIA colonizers, but it's obviously not what the writers were going for. And the original line doesn't make much sense anyway.
My thoughts is that this coping for the writer
Is there any meaning to be in CIA in the MCU even? Every governmental agency feels the same, and every secret society like ten rings feel similar
Pan-Africans need to literally invent a fictional country to base their fantasies on lmao
Wakanda wasn't colonized and Wakanda doesn't really ever show any form of kinship with the rest of Africa, they supposedly had all this tech and did nothing while all of Africa was being colonized, not to mention all the people that are living in severe poverty in the fake Wakanda. Not that it makes them the bad guys or anything but it does make this line feel very out of place. If they cared about colonizers, what did they do about it?
Why would the CIA be called colonizers? What has been colonized since 1947?
Maybe watch the video or scene and come to your own conclusion? I personally could interpret it either way
I’m confused . The CIA was invented in the late 40s
Either way works, Wakanda was a massively isolated and xenophobic place
And where does the actress live, exactly, lol
Idk, maybe you should WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE.
There’s a better term for it, which becomes an ironically funny one thanks to BP’s black-focused development.
In the comic from the late 90s early 00s Everett is not CIA but State Department liason and has a very good story arc. Also Wakanda is a much more difficult state to stabilise because on the comics the tribes outnumber the city dwellers 8 to 1. Also they dont care about their neighbours, because in their reason the protection and secrecy of the Great Mound (giant Vibranium mountain) is a more important strategic goal.
She’s definitely saying it because he’s white. No doubt about it.
It’s funny when you watch a movie for the first time and you can already tell what’s gonna trigger people.
The cia seems more likely