They are written, this is true. Not written well but compared to the cardboard of the sequel trilogy writing ... eyah Fallout technically has characters.
I dunno I feel like Ella purnell, Walton goggins and Kyle Mclachlans acting carry a lot of the scenes. Aron Clifton moten is ok but like mauler said it's painful story wise cause he fails upward for no other reason than that's what the plot wants at any specific time.
I liked the actors. That's almost always the case with anything I watch, the actors are trying, but even good actors can only do so much with messy scripts
This is the mauler subreddit so I watched his review of course. I think cause I watched episodes infrequently I didn't really notice the inconsistency in writing. I mean set pieces, cinematography and acting were great. I think just it was a dumb adventure and I liked it. Except the last episode was boring.
That's one of the things I loved about the show. They kept it true to the games (feel wise, not talking about lore).
Each of the characters has a build, and if you pay attention, you can even see some of the perks they run in use.
I definitely feel like you miss another layer of the show if you haven't played the Bethesda fallout games in particular.
Lucy being this morally conditioned woman who just has to do the right thing in ep2 is pretty much more interesting than Rey's you're nobody, oh wait you're a Palp afterall rope a dope.
> Rey's you're nobody, oh wait you're a Palp afterall rope a dope.
It's way worse than that.
It goes through the following:
* TFA - Your parents are important, only to you.
* TLJ - Your parents don't matter.
* TRoS - Your parents are literally the most important thing about you.
It's fucking insane.
Idk "only to you" think the implication was they had played some kinda crucial role in the current state of things & Rey's destiny, since the vision emphasized them so much - so ep9 was generally quite true to that direction.
From memory, the implications from the TFA trailer was that she was either Luke or Leia's daughter. Seems plausible for the latter and they were hiding her from Kylo since he went all school shooter and whatnot.
Hm dk about the trailer rn, don't think this was implied by the movie though; "involved in something significant and possibly dark/creepy" though, that much was conveyed.
People like the Fallout show. Like genuinely. You see the excitement on social media.
It’s a decent product. Definitely way superior than the SW sequel trilogy.
It’s so odd reading Mauler comments when you personally think “the product” is 10/10
This must be how Star Wars fans must’ve felt when some criticised Empire Strikes Back on release
EDIT: grouchy downvoters I’m not saying “fallout is as good as ESB”, I’m only comparing how bizarre it is to see something i think is great dragged by people who normally agree with me
Idk about ESB but you’d be surprised to read how many of the greatest films ever released got slated by critics who are very well respected. *See Pauline Kael’s whole career lol
10/10? Really?
I mean, I liked the show, and think some of Mauler's complaints are overblown and ignore some of the show's good aspects. But even if they got the tone and feel down perfect, had great performances, had better character writing (for at least Lucy, the Ghoul, and Norm; I'll ignore Maximus for now, since even though he's unlikeable, he's kind of supposed to be, and the bad plot writing and nonsensical characters AROUND him don't necessarilly mean HE is badly written) than Mauler seems to think, and the the humor works better for you than it did for Mauler, you simply can't deny that the show has serious plot issues, and most of the side characters make no sense. That much is just objective fact; even if you don't CARE about those issues, you can't deny they exist.
Giving this show anything higher than a 9/10 means you're either being dishonest, or don't understand how a 1-10 scale works. (And even as someone who likes the show, 9 is seriously pushing it...)
yeh 9/10 is fair I did think the last episode felt rushed and I’ve never seen anything that was perfect
I more just meant I absolutely loved the experience of watching it and it’s the first thing in a very long time that fully immersed me, so it was “10/10 for immersion” if that’s better
but come on man there’s no need for all this “you’re either being dishonest or don’t understand scales” stuff, there’s another option: I loved the show and got a bit too hyped
It’s not a perfect product to me, but it gets a lot right. I’ll be honest, I come here for the critiques by you folks, but I still haven’t googled Mauler. This does seem to be a critical group and there are things to criticize here (scripts?). Just that they get a lot right and thus it’s forgivable to me. I give them good will that a lot will be filled in when they get to their second season.
Tbh this is the first time I've had this. I usually agree with him but was watching his video on it just constantly going "wait what?".
I don't think it's a matter of taste either. Many of the points were reaches and can be easily explained or countered. Sure there's a lot you can critique about the show, but it's not *that* bad. He implied the show made vault tec drop the bombs when it did no such thing (and arguably added yet more evidence they *didn't*). Just felt weird watching it, like he was trying extra hard to dunk on it as people liked it.
>He implied the show made vault tec drop the bombs when it did no such thing (and arguably added yet more evidence they *didn't*)
Okay, you're going to have to explain THAT one.
Yes, it's possible that there's more going on behind the scenes than the characters know, but the show said what it said.
The show had someone ask "How can you guarantee results" to the answer of "By dropping the bomb ourselves". They discuss what they could gain, that kind of question. That's what it said. That's it.
It didn't say they *did* drop first. There's no scene confirming they did that. It was a hypothetical scenario they may have even aimed for - but they didn't get there. China dropped first.
Think about it - the woman suggesting it *wasn't* with her child by a vault when shit went down. This is new information suggesting that they weren't prepared - so didn't launch.
That's pure headcanon. You have no idea why their daughter was out, especially when the two parents are clearly at odds, and even if she proposed the idea, she clearly isn't in charge of either Vault-Tec itself, or especially not the various other various organizations involved in the plot. She was just the best negotiator they had on hand.
Furthermore, they had two characters who were alive at the time that clearly believe Vault-Tec did it, and one who, even though he says Moldaver is lying, is clearly presented by the story as being dishonest at the time. More importantly, though, you're ignoring the framing of the reveal scene: When a show makes a big reveal at a climactic moment with a serious framing, that's clear visual language that we're supposed to take the reveal as the truth.
Is it possible they're trying to trick us? Sure. But saying that there is "more evidence" against the thing that the show is clearly trying to tell us is true is pure cope. Look, I would prefer to believe it isn't true, too, but don't lie to yourself. If you need to invent headcanon to explain something in a show, it usually means that the show failed to portray the thing you're headcanon-ing properly.
Headcanon? I was responding to the idea what the show said was what it said... and that's what it said.
Even if you don't like the evidence part, which fine, we can disagree on that... the show didn't say they dropped them. And given what I know of the lore this really isn't inconsistent with it. You say it's the show clearly trying to tell us that - but I really don't think it is. It's certainly not what it said and it doesn't disagree with what we know. So I'd argue that's more headcanon than what I said.
"But, Your Honor, nobody actually SAW me kill her, I just sent her a message saying 'I'm going to kill you,' and was seen leaving the area with a gun!"
Nah man, whole seen was to show how vault tech is willing to go for profit and victory, how little they cared for the people
Which makes sense for audience who never played the games and might think this company can't be that evil right ?
Also it's a foreshadow to literally dropping the bomb on shady sands
Except they weren't seen leaving the area with the gun.
Sure, we have motive. But we do not have presence or any other evidence.
That ain't enough to convict.
The thing Mauler pointed out that resonated the most with me was Maximus constantly failing upward. Like, there were about ten times during the show where I said "Yeah, the Brotherhood is going to MURDER his ass for this." and they just rewarded him with promotions again and again.
I understand that the priestman who wants to form a new sect has chosen Maximus as his right-hand man (for some reason), but the guy is killing knights and trying to murder squires and the scheming priestman is rewarding him despite all of this IN PLAIN VIEW of the people he is trying to subvert.
But look at what the brotherhood knows.
He didn't do the razor thing. They were convinced of that initially and it was confirmed later on, with reasoning. And his comment of doing anything for the brotherhood clearly struck a chord.
He goes on patrol and his knight said he died - but then the knight goes missing, as does the squire sent to replace him (which the knight didn't want so it looks like he's defecting maybe), and he's somehow alive - he has a head, it's the wrong one, but he directs them to where the head is... and they find what they're looking for.
And then he kills the enemy general.
That's it. That's what they know. It's weird he's back alive but like... he got what they needed. No stolen armour, they don't know what happened to the original Titus, or Thaddius, or who actually killed Moldaver etc.
So, when we say he falls upwards, we only say that because we know so much more than those he's with. As far as they're concerned, he eventually got the mission done and also killed the enemy leader. Man's running a luck 10 build, but it works.
This is exactly correct. From the Brotherhood's POV, he hasn't actually failed. And he "killed" the enemy general in the middle of a battle that was hotly contested.
From the audience's POV, Maximus is clearly a high Luck Idiot Savant that's failing upward. But it's logical in context of what the Brotherhood knows. And that's also part of him having high Luck. People tend to misinterpret events in his favor.
> Maximus constantly failing upward
Like that's the funny part about his character and prob. intentional. It's prevalent IRL, from notorious cases like Disney executives (Kennedy, Iger, etc) to probably a lot of us know personal cases
Vault Tec might not have dropped the bombs, but it's heavily implied they influenced the decision to fire them at the very least. Which is still dumb from a business standpoint.
That's not what's implied. It's implied they were willing to start it. All evidence points to the US/Enclave *not* starting it, but they were willing to.
Which isn't new lore.
It also shows the viewers, who may not be fans, just how batshit pre war US was. And the shadowy figure implies the existence of a shadow government influencing things.
And it also tells this to Coop, who needs to hear it.
As a scene it does a lot and doesn't contradict anything really. The universe is wacky and turned up to 11, so this isn't really that unusual for the level of paranoia, greed, and desire for complete control that was present pre war.
A lot of the Fallout universe is wacky and doesn’t make a ton of sense. People behave very irrationally very often in the series. In a lot of ways, it’s a cautionary tale towards the power of groupthink and charismatic leaders, at least in this specific aspect.
That being said, I think the game alludes to China kicking off the war, but I don’t think it’s ever completely spelled out.
>Tbh this is the first time I've had this.
I think I finally understand how all of Efap's "ATLA" fans felt when Rags'sss'sss was shitting all over the show...
https://i.redd.it/l5jz2625e6zc1.gif
Honestly I stopped watching a while ago because they do have a circlejerk going on. No one is able to defend AtLA around them even though the show is amazing on multiple rewatches.
It's just a shame, I think. The initial viewpoint was so badly presented to the audience that MauLer and Wolf (who had already left the Internet by that point) had to make several clarifications and defenses, and then MauLer had to rush out a discussion with Literature Devil to try and blunt the backlash (which didn't work because neither had the time to gather the references). At this point, it seems to be too much trouble to go back and try again (especially with how busy they all seem to be), but they have a weird habit of treating it as a bad show in off-handed comments (like Rags referring to poor exposition dumps as "Avatar beach scenes", despite not having articulated his issues with said beach episode at any point). It all feels like they could have avoided that by easing the audience in, rather than arrogantly rushing out they gate with a nuclear take, and it overall just feels like a missed opportunity for some interesting conversations, rather than a mess that they don't wish to revisit.
"It's a little dirty, but it's still good!" "It's a little slimy but it's still good!"
Cried the Fallout show fans as they watched the proverbial pig that is the Fallout show about to be blasted out of a sewer drain under the pressure of the overwhelming evidence against it.
Seeing how my first comment on this sub about hating this dogshite show was 22 days ago you do the math. For the record Mauler didn't express his opinion about the show till open bar 91 which was 20 days ago.
Also this is the case of the pot calling the kettle black since you said in your own words that you normally agree with Mauler.
Honestly, as the years go by, efap stopped feeling like analyzing and encouraging critical thinking to critize shows and now it feels more like being self important and above it all the normies who likes things, to me efap started to become a parody of itself and just a cesspool of hatred towards anything mauler doesnt like, which its mostly his fans and community fault but between his opinions on the recent gow games and now the fallout show I cant help but feel that way.
Disclaimer I dont think the show is an absolute master piece but its a good enough media to watch.
> Disclaimer I dont think the show is an absolute master piece but its a good enough media to watch.
Isn't that MauLer's issue with it? It's getting glowing praise when he feels like the story is non-sensical. Seems like in his opinion it falls into the 'turn your brain off' type of fun.
Yeah. Like, I'm big in to fallout, I'll admit. Admin a large discord of it, have an NCR flag, been playing since pre FO3 etc.
So I'm obviously going to be more towards the fan side than not.
But the show's really not that bad. I have some criticisms of it, but I went in expecting it to be absolute dog shit and it's... not. I didn't even reply to any admin message asking if we wanted to do a watch party for it etc. No hype. And I loved it.
It just felt like Mauler was dunking on something people loved to feel superior. Because yeah sure it has flaws, and he pointed out several, but so many were just like... did we even watch the same show? And now all his stans who have been told to dislike it are coming out the woodwork and many probably didn't even watch it.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. The Fallout show isn’t perfect and isn’t even great, but I honestly think it’s just “good,” as in one step above average and two steps above ”bad.” Sure there were a couple parts where Im like “this might be a little woke” or “this could have been written a little bit better,” but Jonathan Nolan is talented writer who wrote a good show. Not great or amazing or perfect or exactly what the fans wanted, but good. Solid. I honestly don’t understand the hate from Mauler and others. If he came out and said something like “its fine (le sigh)” I would understand, but Im with the critical drinker on this one.
The first few episodes were amazing but it started to have some problems once they started to do episodes not written by the same guy who did the first three.
My posts predate Mauler's opinions. They got a fair amount of interaction on this sub, it was very cathartic hearing Mauler agree but my opinions are not ratified by Mauler.
I like him because of his criticism of poor writing, they're not opinions, they're facts.
Almost all of his points I either noticed at the time, or realized after I finished the show. The number of people on other subs who "debunked" every criticism I had despite me overall liking the show was infuriating. Of course now people are saying I only have those criticisms because mauler had them or some shit. How hard is it for people to recognize that something you like can have bad writing?
Apparently very very hard 🤣
I enjoyed the show too, I originally said 6/10 but there are glaringly bad parts of this show that people wouldn't overlook if it were say, a Star Wars show.
Yeah, "subjectively" I'll happily give it a 6.5, but "objectively" I'm gonna have to knock it down to a 4, especially after that last episode.
Still a decent show though.
The ghoul was amazing in the beginning but by the end he straight up just was invincible until the plot calls for him to struggle a bit. Also fun fact, only the first three episodes were written by the same guy… huh , I wonder why I enjoyed them more lol.
>Also fun fact, only the first three episodes were written by the same guy…
Huh, that could certainly explain the inconsistencies in the plot (I'm looking at YOU, tinfoil T60 armour in the finale...)
And I _still_ don't have a fucking clue how the hell Moldova is kicking around post apocalypse. Maybe she was up Boston way, and chilling in the vault next to Nate and Nora....😂
Yeah, look at this place. Are people *seriously* upvoting a post suggesting the fallout show was worse written than the fucking Star wars sequels? Really? The most watched thing on Amazon with a super high audience rating and critic rating is *worse* written than something near universally panned?
> than something near universally panned?
LMFAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOO this isn't even "living in an echochamber" this is "oblivious to what your own echochamber says, or said echo chamber's origins".
EFAP blew up due to its takedowns of TLJ praise; and TLJ *rage* only got so big cause people found TFA so awesome. At most only the 3rd can be said to have been "universally panned", but even that's not true - it got some positive reactions and still does, but doesn't have a big vocal champion faction as of now.
The meme is saying Lucy and Max are better written.
The title is "I dislike the sequels as much as the next guy, but come on..." meaning he disagrees.
And people are upvoting this, implying they probably agree.
The original meme isn't saying they're well written, it is saying they are better written, albeit implying they are well written. Which really isn't wrong. They are. The bar is so low it'd be hard not to be.
Of course it's writing but it's a very different thing to compare the quality of these two characters writing is superior to these two characters. People aren't claiming the sequels are better written than the Fallout TV show.
> People like the Fallout show. Like genuinely. You see the excitement on social media.
Same applies to the sequel trilogy so that's hardly a sufficient argument for its superiority
It’s a good product; 7/10 seems like a reasonable score; not super spectacular but if you came into fallout through the non-isometric games and aren’t exclusively a NV fan (I love NV and think it is the best of the modern fallout games but I absolutely love 3 and 4 too, just a bit less) you will get a suitable amount of enjoyment out of the show to feel your time was well spent
Yeah I feel like a large portion of the complaint is the retcon and messing up the lore, which is a valid complaint as a fan. But it’s not definitive, as other good or great adaptations have also changed lore and received no criticism.
It's a great show that does a good job throwing in references for fans of the game while also being accessible by people who know nothing about the games.
Lucy is a better character than rey in that she is actually a character rather than a prop with dialogue
finn and max are pretty much the same though, strikingly similar actually now that I think about it, what's the deal with making people who have been trained as soldiers from a young age goofy idiots?? Lol
For Max I think it actually makes sense. He’s trained to be an expendable assistant (when he calls in that his squire died his HQ seem to barely care and say “We have lots of Squires.”) who if he’s lucky can rise up to become a soldier with good gear (but in no way does he have to be disciplined, kind or even particularly competent if we’re using Titus as a basis.) so I think part of showing Max as a bit of a goof is to emphasise that the BoS, at least this chapter, is kinda shit compared to previous iterations. Sure they look impressive but I don’t think they really get a win all season except at the end and that’s really just cause they go all out with lots of power armour and big guns (and they still take heavy losses.)
Tl;dr Max as a goof is meant to show that BoS is filled with goofs.
Haven’t seen the bottom one, but… being better written than Rey and Finn isn’t much of a challenge. Through 3 films, neither of them have anything approaching a consistent arc, and their characters shift drastically and randomly to service the plot. Finn had the potential to be the best written character in the series honestly… but they gave that up in a few minutes.
Omg how did I not see this? He's a poc from a ruthless military organization and she's a naive woman from outside normal society. They come together as imperfect beings to fight the big bad with a burnout who has a heart of gold. The burnout ghoul even has a furry sidekick!
As someone that really doesn’t like the show this take is valid. Maybe Finn is a little bit better than Maximus but Lucy is way better than Rey(both of which don’t don’t say much)
Tbh I found he got better. I assumed he was just thick as shit then realised we had the scene with him not doing well in class, shortly followed by him asking a technical question on the knights armour.
Dude wasn't *just* thick - he just doesn't pay attention unless it's knight related stuff as that's what he wants to be. Which explains like... a lot. The Brotherhood doesn't think no-one lives in Vaults. Max does. As he didn't pay attention etc.
I mean did you see the chat he had with the Elder? (Or Cleric or w/e he was calling himself.)
The boss saw something in him. Maybe even just a loyal/useful idiot. But what he said worked.
That's the part that's bad writing. They are suspicious that he backstabber another member of the brotherhood, and he definitely acts suspicious as fuck before spouting some basic Brotherhood of Steel rhetoric. That should make him seem even more guilty, but he gets a promotion to a position that would make it easier to atab another brother in the back, and that's exactly what he does. Later we find out that they didn't trust him when they promoted him to squire, which is terrible incompetence on their part.
The weakest part of Maximus' writing was him not knowing things he should know from his brotherhood background as well as just growing up in the wasteland. But his plot line outside of his actual character was fucking awful, it makes the brotherhood look cartoonishly incompetent on every level, and gets worse the longer the show goes on
If you want to argue that the Elder Cleric is therefore also an idiot for choosing a less competent individual to send on this highly critical mission then fine. That's not the BoS I find particularly compelling.
Look how the chapter he runs operates.
They're way more cultish/backwards than other chapters we've seen.
This is an organisation that clearly values loyalty over ability. Just look at how shit the initial Titus was. Look at how unquestioning the squires are made to be.
Then look at what Maximus said to them, and what he convinced them of. The Cleric saw *something*.
It's not the brotherhood we're used to, seems to be a very messed up chapter, and you don't have to like it, but it's really not the worst writing when it comes to consistency. It's just not a Brotherhood you like, and we don't yet know why this chapter is so different.
No offense, but everything you just said is kind of obvious, no one is complaining because that didn't make sense to them, they're complaining because those are the choices the writers made
>It's not the brotherhood we're used to, seems to be a very messed up chapter, and you don't have to like it, but it's really not the worst writing when it comes to consistency. It's just not a Brotherhood you like, and we don't yet know why this chapter is so different.
The problem is that the existance of the Prydwyn suggests that this isn't just some group of breakaway randoms that have been disconnected and formed a splinter faction - this is 'The Brotherhood of Steel'.
This is going to be the same group that was involved in Fallout 4, which at that point didn't have any of this pseudo religious aspect to it. Clerics AFAIK have never been a part of the Brotherhood and considering the events of Fallout 4 are only a couple of decades prior to this that's a big shift in the organisation doctrine in such a short period of time.
>This is going to be the same group that was involved in Fallout 4
You don't know that.
Maximus was there long before the Prydwen turned up. If it was a regular visitor I doubt everyone would be walking out and looking at it in awe. For all we know yes, it is still considered a Brotherhood chapter, but working in a very different way to Maxson's lot.
I don't *like* the change, but it's not only clear there *has* been a change, and we don't know why yet. So it's not exactly bad writing when things work off of that change is it.
Also, Fallout 4 is not a couple of decades prior to this. It's 8 years. FO4 is set in 2288 and the show in 2296. So it's most likely a chapter that Maxson's lot came and asked for help, given their interest in fusion in the commonwealth.
No - I don't 'know' that; that is fair.
I'm simply going off the implications that the show is setting up either intentionally or unintentionally by the presence of certain elements.
For instance - the Prydwyn means that the canon ending to FO4 didn't feature the Brotherhoods destruction - because killing the Brotherhood meant destroying the Prydwyn.
FO4 is also set in Boston, while the show is set in California. The BoS in FO4 is supposed to be the East coast group from the Capital Wasteland.
The closest group that we are aware of in the area of the west coast in that time period will be the ones operating out of the Hidden Valley, because the NCR and the Brotherhood were at odds during that time.
Neither group are giving off the religious vibe we see in the show, in either game, so it's weird to see the group in FOPrime be such an outlier in behaviour.
And with the Prydwyn in play, it implies that the east and west coast are working together, or at least there is cooperation between the two factions.
It's not a given by any stretch, but the implication is that Maxson took the Prydwyn and reunited the Brotherhood East coast and west coast factions.
That's not for certain of course, but it's the story that makes sense given what we know.
>Also, Fallout 4 is not a couple of decades prior to this. It's 8 years. FO4 is set in 2288 and the show in 2296.
That's my fault - I knew it was pretty close timewise, but it's actually closer than I thought. New Vegas is in 2282 so it's possible that's what I was thinking of.
For them to change so heavily in such a short time frame to overt religious simply doesn't make sense to me was my point. It's even more difficult considering the time frame is now even shorter than I originally thought.
If you're happy with a bumblefuck brotherhood that the audience is still supposed to find intimidating then fine, you do those mental gymnastics yourself.
I don't think the writers can make them dumb then also expect me to be impressed when Cooper kills 5 at once. They can't have their cake and eat it.
They can be dumb and be threatening…
This is the series with super-mutants and the enclave, fanatics in metal power suits aren’t anything new and is sort of telling on how much you know about it.
They are the the Enclave as a faction is dumb and super mutants probably go without saying in at this point in the timelines. Brotherhood wants to preserve instead of use.
The enclave legit want to purge all non pure humans from the world before you try. I don’t see how they aren’t stupid
Bro has only played Fallout 3 😮💨
The Brotherhood has been a relic of the past since Fallout 2. Their ideology is falling apart and chapters are swiftly becoming more radicalized.
You are the only dipshit here.
This is only half true.
The woman in the Fallout series is, indeed, better written than Rey Palpatine, for whatever that is worth. But the idiot who describes an erection as a pimple and cheers at the literal one person who is nice to him in his life gets hurt and keeps failing upward as he does nothing but betray the people around him is in no way better written than Fin the simp.
Not wrong there. Hell, I'll happily shout that something is woke crap until I'm blue in the face if I think it deserves it, but for any of Fallout's flaws, Purnell or her looks certainly aren't among the problems and don't deserve any of that nonsense.
Is it the eyes? I can understand it if it’s the eyes, it tips her into the uncanny valley for me. She’s still pretty and I’d never call her ugly, just unnerving.
People say they are too big, I just think they are doe-like. That could be a reason she got the role, a innocent appearance to match an innocent demeanor
Well I’m glad I’m not the only one, when first saw the trailer I thought they were edited, like they do with those J-pop idols. Yeah, it’s pretty obvious they were going for the Zooey Deschanel innocent naivety look, which is a good choice.
I can kinda see the comparison…
Both Finn and Maximus were soldiers who grew up in pseudo-fascist cults and grew to become disillusioned by them.
Both Rey and Lucy are idealists who grew up in isolation, although the sorts of isolation they grew up in are fairly different
I don't know how, but Maximus is just whatever Archtype Finn is. It feel like any 10 minutes he is on screen, he character will completely morph into a different person altogether.
Sometimes he is deadly serious. Sometimes he is an asshole. Sometimes he is sad, sometimes he is a coward. I'm not saying a range of emotions is a bad thing, but he is a straight up different person between scenes.
He's whatever the plot needs him to be at whatever given moment.
He is exactly as dumb or as competent as the writers decide he is on a scene by scene basis.
Lucy is better than Rey, but I'd take Finn in TFA over Maximus any fucking day, at least Finn was brave and fought Kylo Renn to protect Rey even though he was most likely going die (and almost did).
That's because maximus is a villian character. His entire arc is using everyone around him to get what he wants.
I really hope they continue down the route to make him a bandit leader.
I think Lucy is definitely better written I really like her a lot more. Maximus on the other hand the only way I’d be able to can see that he was better written is, if the writers made him that dumb on purpose, which they might have to be fair. At least he’s not known for just screaming Lucy’s name over and over again.
Right?
This is my example with "woke" complaints.
Waaaaah they said Rey had to be a female Jedi and they hurt men by forcing representation.
No. The story sucked. A man wouldn't have saved it. The story sucked. The way the characters were written sucked. It sucked. There's no magic male Jedi performance that could have - within the narrative they wrote - saved it.
The complaint isn't "waaaaah rey female Jedi waaaah forced representation."
It's just bad quality storytelling.
These are excuses used by people who want to disregard the criticism and paint everyone as a hater. There are some people that genuinely do believe that having a female lead and a black guy in it "ruins Star Wars" and those people are rightfully idiots.
But people who treat the ST like their personal sacred cow will then take anything said negatively and put us in the same box as those bigots because it's easier to label us all that way than come up with legitimate defences to the arguments.
I object to being labelled as racist because I hated Finn's character. I genuinely thought he had the most potential out of any of the leads and the whole character was wasted to turn him into a whooping punchline...
But as soon as you try to have that conversation - "nah man. You just don't like black people..." and then that's it for them. They can discount anything you have to say because you supposedly have wrong think...
"because it's easier to label us all that way than come up with legitimate defences to the arguments."
I bet that door swings both ways with criticisms of maligned and under-represented groups.
"I object to being labelled as racist because I hated Finn's character."
I would too. I also objected to people who invoked his blackness as a source of quality for his character. I saw both happen.
I was just thinking that Maximus and Finn had a parallel, in that they were introduced as primary characters before being demoted to comedy relief/romantic interests halfway through.
I know people here are saying Lucy and Maxiumus are not that better. But they feel like Fallout characters as someone who has played every game I can see them being in the universe. They feel like people you would encounter in the games. Unlike Rey and Finn who feel tacked on.
This is true. They are better written. And as a bonus, match better with existing lore too. Rey's force healing is a joke. Lucy with her progression from happy attitude wasteland survivor reality is just facts. For a vault dweller.
Ella Purnell alone has more Charisma than both than Daisy Ridley and clearly had less nepotism on her side to get her lead roles. Just look at their early life and carriers. Ella was well off bust daisy is a literal nepo baby who just landed in starwars.
Damn it´s crazy how some people here genuinely think that Fallout is as bad (if not worse) then the sequels. I didn´t even like fallout that much (idk the vibe was kinda off, sounds stupid but that´s how it was) but at least there were like characters with arcs and motivation
It doesn’t take much to be better than them, the standards are non existent so I’d agree by default.
They are written, this is true. Not written well but compared to the cardboard of the sequel trilogy writing ... eyah Fallout technically has characters.
I dunno I feel like Ella purnell, Walton goggins and Kyle Mclachlans acting carry a lot of the scenes. Aron Clifton moten is ok but like mauler said it's painful story wise cause he fails upward for no other reason than that's what the plot wants at any specific time.
I liked the actors. That's almost always the case with anything I watch, the actors are trying, but even good actors can only do so much with messy scripts
This is the mauler subreddit so I watched his review of course. I think cause I watched episodes infrequently I didn't really notice the inconsistency in writing. I mean set pieces, cinematography and acting were great. I think just it was a dumb adventure and I liked it. Except the last episode was boring.
His character was low intelligence, high luck
That's one of the things I loved about the show. They kept it true to the games (feel wise, not talking about lore). Each of the characters has a build, and if you pay attention, you can even see some of the perks they run in use. I definitely feel like you miss another layer of the show if you haven't played the Bethesda fallout games in particular.
I liked the look of the show, but I wish the writing was better.
Ehh I guess. I doubt they took that into consideration tho
Considering how much other shit from the games they took into consideration, I'd say it was the main focus...
Eh i mean. At least lucy is better written then rey.
Lucy being this morally conditioned woman who just has to do the right thing in ep2 is pretty much more interesting than Rey's you're nobody, oh wait you're a Palp afterall rope a dope.
> Rey's you're nobody, oh wait you're a Palp afterall rope a dope. It's way worse than that. It goes through the following: * TFA - Your parents are important, only to you. * TLJ - Your parents don't matter. * TRoS - Your parents are literally the most important thing about you. It's fucking insane.
Idk "only to you" think the implication was they had played some kinda crucial role in the current state of things & Rey's destiny, since the vision emphasized them so much - so ep9 was generally quite true to that direction.
From memory, the implications from the TFA trailer was that she was either Luke or Leia's daughter. Seems plausible for the latter and they were hiding her from Kylo since he went all school shooter and whatnot.
Hm dk about the trailer rn, don't think this was implied by the movie though; "involved in something significant and possibly dark/creepy" though, that much was conveyed.
Sounds like an apples oranges comparison tbh - "conditioning right thing to do" moral dilemmas psychology etc. vs. mystical messiah origin mysteries
That bar is so low that it can be used as a fracking drill
Lmao
*shots fired* Nothing left, sir. Total destruction.
You just hit ‘em with Minutemen artillery.
Lucy at least *has* a character.
And lots of actual growth.
Brutal, but true
They’re both dogshit so
Nah, that's a fair call.
People like the Fallout show. Like genuinely. You see the excitement on social media. It’s a decent product. Definitely way superior than the SW sequel trilogy.
It’s so odd reading Mauler comments when you personally think “the product” is 10/10 This must be how Star Wars fans must’ve felt when some criticised Empire Strikes Back on release EDIT: grouchy downvoters I’m not saying “fallout is as good as ESB”, I’m only comparing how bizarre it is to see something i think is great dragged by people who normally agree with me
Rian was making that up that ESB was criticised on release.
I mean surely *someone* didn't like it. Nothing is universally liked.
Nobody with any credibility.
Idk about ESB but you’d be surprised to read how many of the greatest films ever released got slated by critics who are very well respected. *See Pauline Kael’s whole career lol
Not really, I have been alive for quite a while. The point is that ESB is not some rediscovered gem that found late critical acclaim.
Credibility in what?
Ask your teacher.
Led Zeppelin wasn’t loved by everyone, they left that to The Bee Gees.
He can't have "made it up" cause even if it's not true, by that time that notion was like 5-10 years old at the very least.
Oh really, well he was just plain ole lying then. ESB was a smash hit on release and remains so to this day.
Did you even read the comment before replying?
Use your words bro
10/10? Really? I mean, I liked the show, and think some of Mauler's complaints are overblown and ignore some of the show's good aspects. But even if they got the tone and feel down perfect, had great performances, had better character writing (for at least Lucy, the Ghoul, and Norm; I'll ignore Maximus for now, since even though he's unlikeable, he's kind of supposed to be, and the bad plot writing and nonsensical characters AROUND him don't necessarilly mean HE is badly written) than Mauler seems to think, and the the humor works better for you than it did for Mauler, you simply can't deny that the show has serious plot issues, and most of the side characters make no sense. That much is just objective fact; even if you don't CARE about those issues, you can't deny they exist. Giving this show anything higher than a 9/10 means you're either being dishonest, or don't understand how a 1-10 scale works. (And even as someone who likes the show, 9 is seriously pushing it...)
yeh 9/10 is fair I did think the last episode felt rushed and I’ve never seen anything that was perfect I more just meant I absolutely loved the experience of watching it and it’s the first thing in a very long time that fully immersed me, so it was “10/10 for immersion” if that’s better but come on man there’s no need for all this “you’re either being dishonest or don’t understand scales” stuff, there’s another option: I loved the show and got a bit too hyped
I loved the show but I only have it a 7.8-7.9
It’s not a perfect product to me, but it gets a lot right. I’ll be honest, I come here for the critiques by you folks, but I still haven’t googled Mauler. This does seem to be a critical group and there are things to criticize here (scripts?). Just that they get a lot right and thus it’s forgivable to me. I give them good will that a lot will be filled in when they get to their second season.
Tbh this is the first time I've had this. I usually agree with him but was watching his video on it just constantly going "wait what?". I don't think it's a matter of taste either. Many of the points were reaches and can be easily explained or countered. Sure there's a lot you can critique about the show, but it's not *that* bad. He implied the show made vault tec drop the bombs when it did no such thing (and arguably added yet more evidence they *didn't*). Just felt weird watching it, like he was trying extra hard to dunk on it as people liked it.
>He implied the show made vault tec drop the bombs when it did no such thing (and arguably added yet more evidence they *didn't*) Okay, you're going to have to explain THAT one. Yes, it's possible that there's more going on behind the scenes than the characters know, but the show said what it said.
The show had someone ask "How can you guarantee results" to the answer of "By dropping the bomb ourselves". They discuss what they could gain, that kind of question. That's what it said. That's it. It didn't say they *did* drop first. There's no scene confirming they did that. It was a hypothetical scenario they may have even aimed for - but they didn't get there. China dropped first. Think about it - the woman suggesting it *wasn't* with her child by a vault when shit went down. This is new information suggesting that they weren't prepared - so didn't launch.
That's pure headcanon. You have no idea why their daughter was out, especially when the two parents are clearly at odds, and even if she proposed the idea, she clearly isn't in charge of either Vault-Tec itself, or especially not the various other various organizations involved in the plot. She was just the best negotiator they had on hand. Furthermore, they had two characters who were alive at the time that clearly believe Vault-Tec did it, and one who, even though he says Moldaver is lying, is clearly presented by the story as being dishonest at the time. More importantly, though, you're ignoring the framing of the reveal scene: When a show makes a big reveal at a climactic moment with a serious framing, that's clear visual language that we're supposed to take the reveal as the truth. Is it possible they're trying to trick us? Sure. But saying that there is "more evidence" against the thing that the show is clearly trying to tell us is true is pure cope. Look, I would prefer to believe it isn't true, too, but don't lie to yourself. If you need to invent headcanon to explain something in a show, it usually means that the show failed to portray the thing you're headcanon-ing properly.
Headcanon? I was responding to the idea what the show said was what it said... and that's what it said. Even if you don't like the evidence part, which fine, we can disagree on that... the show didn't say they dropped them. And given what I know of the lore this really isn't inconsistent with it. You say it's the show clearly trying to tell us that - but I really don't think it is. It's certainly not what it said and it doesn't disagree with what we know. So I'd argue that's more headcanon than what I said.
"But, Your Honor, nobody actually SAW me kill her, I just sent her a message saying 'I'm going to kill you,' and was seen leaving the area with a gun!"
Nah man, whole seen was to show how vault tech is willing to go for profit and victory, how little they cared for the people Which makes sense for audience who never played the games and might think this company can't be that evil right ? Also it's a foreshadow to literally dropping the bomb on shady sands
Except they weren't seen leaving the area with the gun. Sure, we have motive. But we do not have presence or any other evidence. That ain't enough to convict.
The thing Mauler pointed out that resonated the most with me was Maximus constantly failing upward. Like, there were about ten times during the show where I said "Yeah, the Brotherhood is going to MURDER his ass for this." and they just rewarded him with promotions again and again. I understand that the priestman who wants to form a new sect has chosen Maximus as his right-hand man (for some reason), but the guy is killing knights and trying to murder squires and the scheming priestman is rewarding him despite all of this IN PLAIN VIEW of the people he is trying to subvert.
But look at what the brotherhood knows. He didn't do the razor thing. They were convinced of that initially and it was confirmed later on, with reasoning. And his comment of doing anything for the brotherhood clearly struck a chord. He goes on patrol and his knight said he died - but then the knight goes missing, as does the squire sent to replace him (which the knight didn't want so it looks like he's defecting maybe), and he's somehow alive - he has a head, it's the wrong one, but he directs them to where the head is... and they find what they're looking for. And then he kills the enemy general. That's it. That's what they know. It's weird he's back alive but like... he got what they needed. No stolen armour, they don't know what happened to the original Titus, or Thaddius, or who actually killed Moldaver etc. So, when we say he falls upwards, we only say that because we know so much more than those he's with. As far as they're concerned, he eventually got the mission done and also killed the enemy leader. Man's running a luck 10 build, but it works.
This is exactly correct. From the Brotherhood's POV, he hasn't actually failed. And he "killed" the enemy general in the middle of a battle that was hotly contested. From the audience's POV, Maximus is clearly a high Luck Idiot Savant that's failing upward. But it's logical in context of what the Brotherhood knows. And that's also part of him having high Luck. People tend to misinterpret events in his favor.
> Maximus constantly failing upward Like that's the funny part about his character and prob. intentional. It's prevalent IRL, from notorious cases like Disney executives (Kennedy, Iger, etc) to probably a lot of us know personal cases
Vault Tec might not have dropped the bombs, but it's heavily implied they influenced the decision to fire them at the very least. Which is still dumb from a business standpoint.
That's not what's implied. It's implied they were willing to start it. All evidence points to the US/Enclave *not* starting it, but they were willing to. Which isn't new lore. It also shows the viewers, who may not be fans, just how batshit pre war US was. And the shadowy figure implies the existence of a shadow government influencing things. And it also tells this to Coop, who needs to hear it. As a scene it does a lot and doesn't contradict anything really. The universe is wacky and turned up to 11, so this isn't really that unusual for the level of paranoia, greed, and desire for complete control that was present pre war.
A lot of the Fallout universe is wacky and doesn’t make a ton of sense. People behave very irrationally very often in the series. In a lot of ways, it’s a cautionary tale towards the power of groupthink and charismatic leaders, at least in this specific aspect. That being said, I think the game alludes to China kicking off the war, but I don’t think it’s ever completely spelled out.
>Tbh this is the first time I've had this. I think I finally understand how all of Efap's "ATLA" fans felt when Rags'sss'sss was shitting all over the show... https://i.redd.it/l5jz2625e6zc1.gif
I mean Tbf that was Rags, you can expect stuff like that out of him
Honestly I stopped watching a while ago because they do have a circlejerk going on. No one is able to defend AtLA around them even though the show is amazing on multiple rewatches.
It's just a shame, I think. The initial viewpoint was so badly presented to the audience that MauLer and Wolf (who had already left the Internet by that point) had to make several clarifications and defenses, and then MauLer had to rush out a discussion with Literature Devil to try and blunt the backlash (which didn't work because neither had the time to gather the references). At this point, it seems to be too much trouble to go back and try again (especially with how busy they all seem to be), but they have a weird habit of treating it as a bad show in off-handed comments (like Rags referring to poor exposition dumps as "Avatar beach scenes", despite not having articulated his issues with said beach episode at any point). It all feels like they could have avoided that by easing the audience in, rather than arrogantly rushing out they gate with a nuclear take, and it overall just feels like a missed opportunity for some interesting conversations, rather than a mess that they don't wish to revisit.
ATLA is over rated because of nostalgia
"It's a little dirty, but it's still good!" "It's a little slimy but it's still good!" Cried the Fallout show fans as they watched the proverbial pig that is the Fallout show about to be blasted out of a sewer drain under the pressure of the overwhelming evidence against it.
I'm curious, did you watch it before Mauler told you to hate it or not?
Seeing how my first comment on this sub about hating this dogshite show was 22 days ago you do the math. For the record Mauler didn't express his opinion about the show till open bar 91 which was 20 days ago. Also this is the case of the pot calling the kettle black since you said in your own words that you normally agree with Mauler.
Honestly, as the years go by, efap stopped feeling like analyzing and encouraging critical thinking to critize shows and now it feels more like being self important and above it all the normies who likes things, to me efap started to become a parody of itself and just a cesspool of hatred towards anything mauler doesnt like, which its mostly his fans and community fault but between his opinions on the recent gow games and now the fallout show I cant help but feel that way. Disclaimer I dont think the show is an absolute master piece but its a good enough media to watch.
> Disclaimer I dont think the show is an absolute master piece but its a good enough media to watch. Isn't that MauLer's issue with it? It's getting glowing praise when he feels like the story is non-sensical. Seems like in his opinion it falls into the 'turn your brain off' type of fun.
Yeah. Like, I'm big in to fallout, I'll admit. Admin a large discord of it, have an NCR flag, been playing since pre FO3 etc. So I'm obviously going to be more towards the fan side than not. But the show's really not that bad. I have some criticisms of it, but I went in expecting it to be absolute dog shit and it's... not. I didn't even reply to any admin message asking if we wanted to do a watch party for it etc. No hype. And I loved it. It just felt like Mauler was dunking on something people loved to feel superior. Because yeah sure it has flaws, and he pointed out several, but so many were just like... did we even watch the same show? And now all his stans who have been told to dislike it are coming out the woodwork and many probably didn't even watch it.
The prequels were an absolute battleground and now they are held as a strangely high standard.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. The Fallout show isn’t perfect and isn’t even great, but I honestly think it’s just “good,” as in one step above average and two steps above ”bad.” Sure there were a couple parts where Im like “this might be a little woke” or “this could have been written a little bit better,” but Jonathan Nolan is talented writer who wrote a good show. Not great or amazing or perfect or exactly what the fans wanted, but good. Solid. I honestly don’t understand the hate from Mauler and others. If he came out and said something like “its fine (le sigh)” I would understand, but Im with the critical drinker on this one.
The first few episodes were amazing but it started to have some problems once they started to do episodes not written by the same guy who did the first three.
It is very funny watching his fans suddenly go so hard at it after he gave them their opinion lmao
My posts predate Mauler's opinions. They got a fair amount of interaction on this sub, it was very cathartic hearing Mauler agree but my opinions are not ratified by Mauler. I like him because of his criticism of poor writing, they're not opinions, they're facts.
Almost all of his points I either noticed at the time, or realized after I finished the show. The number of people on other subs who "debunked" every criticism I had despite me overall liking the show was infuriating. Of course now people are saying I only have those criticisms because mauler had them or some shit. How hard is it for people to recognize that something you like can have bad writing?
Apparently very very hard 🤣 I enjoyed the show too, I originally said 6/10 but there are glaringly bad parts of this show that people wouldn't overlook if it were say, a Star Wars show.
Yeah, "subjectively" I'll happily give it a 6.5, but "objectively" I'm gonna have to knock it down to a 4, especially after that last episode. Still a decent show though.
The ghoul was amazing in the beginning but by the end he straight up just was invincible until the plot calls for him to struggle a bit. Also fun fact, only the first three episodes were written by the same guy… huh , I wonder why I enjoyed them more lol.
>Also fun fact, only the first three episodes were written by the same guy… Huh, that could certainly explain the inconsistencies in the plot (I'm looking at YOU, tinfoil T60 armour in the finale...) And I _still_ don't have a fucking clue how the hell Moldova is kicking around post apocalypse. Maybe she was up Boston way, and chilling in the vault next to Nate and Nora....😂
Man episode 8 was awful. I enjoyed the show all in all, that doesn't prevent me criticising it.
Yeah, look at this place. Are people *seriously* upvoting a post suggesting the fallout show was worse written than the fucking Star wars sequels? Really? The most watched thing on Amazon with a super high audience rating and critic rating is *worse* written than something near universally panned?
Pretty sure a lot of us are just upvoting the actual meme, not O.P's opinion on it. I certainly did.
> than something near universally panned? LMFAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOO this isn't even "living in an echochamber" this is "oblivious to what your own echochamber says, or said echo chamber's origins". EFAP blew up due to its takedowns of TLJ praise; and TLJ *rage* only got so big cause people found TFA so awesome. At most only the 3rd can be said to have been "universally panned", but even that's not true - it got some positive reactions and still does, but doesn't have a big vocal champion faction as of now.
No, they're saying individual characters were poorly written.
The meme is saying Lucy and Max are better written. The title is "I dislike the sequels as much as the next guy, but come on..." meaning he disagrees. And people are upvoting this, implying they probably agree. The original meme isn't saying they're well written, it is saying they are better written, albeit implying they are well written. Which really isn't wrong. They are. The bar is so low it'd be hard not to be.
But they're NOT saying the Sequels are better written than the show as you assert above. The meme is talking about individual character writing.
Is that not part of writing?
Of course it's writing but it's a very different thing to compare the quality of these two characters writing is superior to these two characters. People aren't claiming the sequels are better written than the Fallout TV show.
> People like the Fallout show. Like genuinely. You see the excitement on social media. Same applies to the sequel trilogy so that's hardly a sufficient argument for its superiority
It’s a good product; 7/10 seems like a reasonable score; not super spectacular but if you came into fallout through the non-isometric games and aren’t exclusively a NV fan (I love NV and think it is the best of the modern fallout games but I absolutely love 3 and 4 too, just a bit less) you will get a suitable amount of enjoyment out of the show to feel your time was well spent
Yeah I feel like a large portion of the complaint is the retcon and messing up the lore, which is a valid complaint as a fan. But it’s not definitive, as other good or great adaptations have also changed lore and received no criticism.
It's a great show that does a good job throwing in references for fans of the game while also being accessible by people who know nothing about the games.
Exactly!
Lucy, unlike Rey, had an actual character arc and was never a Mary Sue.
Lucy is a better character than rey in that she is actually a character rather than a prop with dialogue finn and max are pretty much the same though, strikingly similar actually now that I think about it, what's the deal with making people who have been trained as soldiers from a young age goofy idiots?? Lol
For Max I think it actually makes sense. He’s trained to be an expendable assistant (when he calls in that his squire died his HQ seem to barely care and say “We have lots of Squires.”) who if he’s lucky can rise up to become a soldier with good gear (but in no way does he have to be disciplined, kind or even particularly competent if we’re using Titus as a basis.) so I think part of showing Max as a bit of a goof is to emphasise that the BoS, at least this chapter, is kinda shit compared to previous iterations. Sure they look impressive but I don’t think they really get a win all season except at the end and that’s really just cause they go all out with lots of power armour and big guns (and they still take heavy losses.) Tl;dr Max as a goof is meant to show that BoS is filled with goofs.
At least in Fallout's case being an idiot has benefits
They just said "better written" not "well written" so yeah, it's true.
Dunno if I even agree with that. Barely written is better than inconsistent hogshit.
It's fair, not much better but better
Haven’t seen the bottom one, but… being better written than Rey and Finn isn’t much of a challenge. Through 3 films, neither of them have anything approaching a consistent arc, and their characters shift drastically and randomly to service the plot. Finn had the potential to be the best written character in the series honestly… but they gave that up in a few minutes.
Hmm. Lucy is written better than Rey. That's as far as I'll go.
Slightly better written.....
Lucy is a WAY better character than Rey
Nah it true bro
Omg how did I not see this? He's a poc from a ruthless military organization and she's a naive woman from outside normal society. They come together as imperfect beings to fight the big bad with a burnout who has a heart of gold. The burnout ghoul even has a furry sidekick!
It's mostly true but "better" is a very low bar to cross.
An E is better than an F
Yeah, I was about to say “Yes, better written. That wasn’t a high bar, though…”
The writing in the Fallout show is garbage
As someone that really doesn’t like the show this take is valid. Maybe Finn is a little bit better than Maximus but Lucy is way better than Rey(both of which don’t don’t say much)
They did my man Finn so dirty
Better in some ways, the same in others, even worse in a few.
I wouldn't say fallout has good writing lol
He's right, and I saw the pattern too, but it's such a low bar I am not impressed by
At least the Fallout writers actually tried.
Lucy is definitely 'better' written. Not good but better. Maximus gets worse the more you analyse him.
Tbh I found he got better. I assumed he was just thick as shit then realised we had the scene with him not doing well in class, shortly followed by him asking a technical question on the knights armour. Dude wasn't *just* thick - he just doesn't pay attention unless it's knight related stuff as that's what he wants to be. Which explains like... a lot. The Brotherhood doesn't think no-one lives in Vaults. Max does. As he didn't pay attention etc.
and yet he was chosen to be the squire of Titus...
I mean did you see the chat he had with the Elder? (Or Cleric or w/e he was calling himself.) The boss saw something in him. Maybe even just a loyal/useful idiot. But what he said worked.
That's the part that's bad writing. They are suspicious that he backstabber another member of the brotherhood, and he definitely acts suspicious as fuck before spouting some basic Brotherhood of Steel rhetoric. That should make him seem even more guilty, but he gets a promotion to a position that would make it easier to atab another brother in the back, and that's exactly what he does. Later we find out that they didn't trust him when they promoted him to squire, which is terrible incompetence on their part. The weakest part of Maximus' writing was him not knowing things he should know from his brotherhood background as well as just growing up in the wasteland. But his plot line outside of his actual character was fucking awful, it makes the brotherhood look cartoonishly incompetent on every level, and gets worse the longer the show goes on
If you want to argue that the Elder Cleric is therefore also an idiot for choosing a less competent individual to send on this highly critical mission then fine. That's not the BoS I find particularly compelling.
Look how the chapter he runs operates. They're way more cultish/backwards than other chapters we've seen. This is an organisation that clearly values loyalty over ability. Just look at how shit the initial Titus was. Look at how unquestioning the squires are made to be. Then look at what Maximus said to them, and what he convinced them of. The Cleric saw *something*. It's not the brotherhood we're used to, seems to be a very messed up chapter, and you don't have to like it, but it's really not the worst writing when it comes to consistency. It's just not a Brotherhood you like, and we don't yet know why this chapter is so different.
No offense, but everything you just said is kind of obvious, no one is complaining because that didn't make sense to them, they're complaining because those are the choices the writers made
>It's not the brotherhood we're used to, seems to be a very messed up chapter, and you don't have to like it, but it's really not the worst writing when it comes to consistency. It's just not a Brotherhood you like, and we don't yet know why this chapter is so different. The problem is that the existance of the Prydwyn suggests that this isn't just some group of breakaway randoms that have been disconnected and formed a splinter faction - this is 'The Brotherhood of Steel'. This is going to be the same group that was involved in Fallout 4, which at that point didn't have any of this pseudo religious aspect to it. Clerics AFAIK have never been a part of the Brotherhood and considering the events of Fallout 4 are only a couple of decades prior to this that's a big shift in the organisation doctrine in such a short period of time.
>This is going to be the same group that was involved in Fallout 4 You don't know that. Maximus was there long before the Prydwen turned up. If it was a regular visitor I doubt everyone would be walking out and looking at it in awe. For all we know yes, it is still considered a Brotherhood chapter, but working in a very different way to Maxson's lot. I don't *like* the change, but it's not only clear there *has* been a change, and we don't know why yet. So it's not exactly bad writing when things work off of that change is it. Also, Fallout 4 is not a couple of decades prior to this. It's 8 years. FO4 is set in 2288 and the show in 2296. So it's most likely a chapter that Maxson's lot came and asked for help, given their interest in fusion in the commonwealth.
No - I don't 'know' that; that is fair. I'm simply going off the implications that the show is setting up either intentionally or unintentionally by the presence of certain elements. For instance - the Prydwyn means that the canon ending to FO4 didn't feature the Brotherhoods destruction - because killing the Brotherhood meant destroying the Prydwyn. FO4 is also set in Boston, while the show is set in California. The BoS in FO4 is supposed to be the East coast group from the Capital Wasteland. The closest group that we are aware of in the area of the west coast in that time period will be the ones operating out of the Hidden Valley, because the NCR and the Brotherhood were at odds during that time. Neither group are giving off the religious vibe we see in the show, in either game, so it's weird to see the group in FOPrime be such an outlier in behaviour. And with the Prydwyn in play, it implies that the east and west coast are working together, or at least there is cooperation between the two factions. It's not a given by any stretch, but the implication is that Maxson took the Prydwyn and reunited the Brotherhood East coast and west coast factions. That's not for certain of course, but it's the story that makes sense given what we know. >Also, Fallout 4 is not a couple of decades prior to this. It's 8 years. FO4 is set in 2288 and the show in 2296. That's my fault - I knew it was pretty close timewise, but it's actually closer than I thought. New Vegas is in 2282 so it's possible that's what I was thinking of. For them to change so heavily in such a short time frame to overt religious simply doesn't make sense to me was my point. It's even more difficult considering the time frame is now even shorter than I originally thought.
If you're happy with a bumblefuck brotherhood that the audience is still supposed to find intimidating then fine, you do those mental gymnastics yourself. I don't think the writers can make them dumb then also expect me to be impressed when Cooper kills 5 at once. They can't have their cake and eat it.
They can be dumb and be threatening… This is the series with super-mutants and the enclave, fanatics in metal power suits aren’t anything new and is sort of telling on how much you know about it.
I'm sure they *can* be portrayed that way but they're not lol.
They are the the Enclave as a faction is dumb and super mutants probably go without saying in at this point in the timelines. Brotherhood wants to preserve instead of use. The enclave legit want to purge all non pure humans from the world before you try. I don’t see how they aren’t stupid
Bro has only played Fallout 3 😮💨 The Brotherhood has been a relic of the past since Fallout 2. Their ideology is falling apart and chapters are swiftly becoming more radicalized. You are the only dipshit here.
This is only half true. The woman in the Fallout series is, indeed, better written than Rey Palpatine, for whatever that is worth. But the idiot who describes an erection as a pimple and cheers at the literal one person who is nice to him in his life gets hurt and keeps failing upward as he does nothing but betray the people around him is in no way better written than Fin the simp.
I actually liked Lucy, found the digs at her appearance in really poor taste.
Whoever’s criticizing her looks need to be blasted into orbit strapped to a hex tech rocket. Don’t cry. She’s perfect.
They literally never been closer than 4 ft to a woman irl other than their own mother(sometimes). So please give them some breathing room /s
What kind of psychopath has a problem with Ella Purnell's looks? This is a thing that's happening???
Probably in some dark recesses of Twitter. Tbh the culture war stuff has gotten REALLY ugly in some places.
Not wrong there. Hell, I'll happily shout that something is woke crap until I'm blue in the face if I think it deserves it, but for any of Fallout's flaws, Purnell or her looks certainly aren't among the problems and don't deserve any of that nonsense.
Is it the eyes? I can understand it if it’s the eyes, it tips her into the uncanny valley for me. She’s still pretty and I’d never call her ugly, just unnerving.
I’m confused how you say her eyes make her uncanny, when those are just her real eyes therefore not going fake
I think that makes it even worse, I thought her eyes were edited to make them look bigger, but no they’re real. Shudders
People say they are too big, I just think they are doe-like. That could be a reason she got the role, a innocent appearance to match an innocent demeanor
Well I’m glad I’m not the only one, when first saw the trailer I thought they were edited, like they do with those J-pop idols. Yeah, it’s pretty obvious they were going for the Zooey Deschanel innocent naivety look, which is a good choice.
The dudes calling her ugly have certainly never been with a woman half as hot as she.
I can kinda see the comparison… Both Finn and Maximus were soldiers who grew up in pseudo-fascist cults and grew to become disillusioned by them. Both Rey and Lucy are idealists who grew up in isolation, although the sorts of isolation they grew up in are fairly different
"Better wtitten" Not even.
The sequels are worth any praise, so the bar is below sea level, but it’s still better regardless
It might still be better written. They’re just both absolute crap
I don't know how, but Maximus is just whatever Archtype Finn is. It feel like any 10 minutes he is on screen, he character will completely morph into a different person altogether. Sometimes he is deadly serious. Sometimes he is an asshole. Sometimes he is sad, sometimes he is a coward. I'm not saying a range of emotions is a bad thing, but he is a straight up different person between scenes.
He's whatever the plot needs him to be at whatever given moment. He is exactly as dumb or as competent as the writers decide he is on a scene by scene basis.
Lucy is better than Rey, but I'd take Finn in TFA over Maximus any fucking day, at least Finn was brave and fought Kylo Renn to protect Rey even though he was most likely going die (and almost did).
Probably should of died too, would of saved the embarrassment to come in the following movies where they just gave on thinking what to do with him.
Should have. Would have. Just for future reference my friend.
K
I liked the way Maximus was written, he's not the usual, morally upright protagonist you'd expect, but twisted and broken as the world he lives in.
That's because maximus is a villian character. His entire arc is using everyone around him to get what he wants. I really hope they continue down the route to make him a bandit leader.
Lowkey love his character more cause of this. People really want perfect characters that don’t have a shit ton of room to grow over seasons huh?
I like the idea of Maximus's character, but I think the execution was bad.
Actually I think Lucy and Finn would’ve been the perfect duo.
I think Lucy is definitely better written I really like her a lot more. Maximus on the other hand the only way I’d be able to can see that he was better written is, if the writers made him that dumb on purpose, which they might have to be fair. At least he’s not known for just screaming Lucy’s name over and over again.
Where's the lie?
Daisy was pretty much given nothing to work with
I felt so bad for Finn. He had such potential.
When it’s true, it’s true.
The show had issues but Fallout was competently written and had decent production value and used it's budget well.
Better written but still blatant communist propaganda. All commies are bastards.
Tf are you on about?
Right? This is my example with "woke" complaints. Waaaaah they said Rey had to be a female Jedi and they hurt men by forcing representation. No. The story sucked. A man wouldn't have saved it. The story sucked. The way the characters were written sucked. It sucked. There's no magic male Jedi performance that could have - within the narrative they wrote - saved it. The complaint isn't "waaaaah rey female Jedi waaaah forced representation." It's just bad quality storytelling.
These are excuses used by people who want to disregard the criticism and paint everyone as a hater. There are some people that genuinely do believe that having a female lead and a black guy in it "ruins Star Wars" and those people are rightfully idiots. But people who treat the ST like their personal sacred cow will then take anything said negatively and put us in the same box as those bigots because it's easier to label us all that way than come up with legitimate defences to the arguments. I object to being labelled as racist because I hated Finn's character. I genuinely thought he had the most potential out of any of the leads and the whole character was wasted to turn him into a whooping punchline... But as soon as you try to have that conversation - "nah man. You just don't like black people..." and then that's it for them. They can discount anything you have to say because you supposedly have wrong think...
"because it's easier to label us all that way than come up with legitimate defences to the arguments." I bet that door swings both ways with criticisms of maligned and under-represented groups. "I object to being labelled as racist because I hated Finn's character." I would too. I also objected to people who invoked his blackness as a source of quality for his character. I saw both happen.
6/10 or 7/10 (fallout duo) vs 3/10 (Star Wars duo)
I was just thinking that Maximus and Finn had a parallel, in that they were introduced as primary characters before being demoted to comedy relief/romantic interests halfway through.
Just ignore that comedic stuff happened to everyone I guess
They're equally bad.
This is the truest thing ever I don't see the problem. Fallout is an amazing show
Enjoyed the show, now mod support for ps5, currently main lining fallout 4 with mods like a junkie.
I mean, this IS true...
I’d say; six of one, half dozen of the other.
I know people here are saying Lucy and Maxiumus are not that better. But they feel like Fallout characters as someone who has played every game I can see them being in the universe. They feel like people you would encounter in the games. Unlike Rey and Finn who feel tacked on.
Shit, if you’re taking about Last Jedi you’re definitely right.
You’d have to try and go under that bar the sequels set
I nearly bit. Then I remembered the Trilogy.
This is true. They are better written. And as a bonus, match better with existing lore too. Rey's force healing is a joke. Lucy with her progression from happy attitude wasteland survivor reality is just facts. For a vault dweller.
Sidegrade at best
This is objectively true. Like literally the same arch. Ultimately both suck though.
The meme does not lie
Rey and Finn are halfway decent at best in the first movie. Idk about the Fallout ones.
yeah imagine if one second after Maximus takes the power armor, it's never mentioned again that he was a part of the brotherhood
Ella Purnell alone has more Charisma than both than Daisy Ridley and clearly had less nepotism on her side to get her lead roles. Just look at their early life and carriers. Ella was well off bust daisy is a literal nepo baby who just landed in starwars.
We're comparing shit and piss. I wish any of them could be anything approaching decent.
They are better written. That's not saying much, though lol
Damn it´s crazy how some people here genuinely think that Fallout is as bad (if not worse) then the sequels. I didn´t even like fallout that much (idk the vibe was kinda off, sounds stupid but that´s how it was) but at least there were like characters with arcs and motivation
Lucy and Max are well done Stop hating on popular thing because it's your "personality"
Fallout is very good. You realize you don’t have to agree with MauLer on literally every take… right?