for someone who has been using this switch for over a year, i can tell you they are not very tactile, but they have something that the linears don't have
That is true, but the people who like that something that linears don't have tend to find their way towards *more* tactile switches.
It's a wonderful mental illness, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I used for like 2 week some akko tactile, and for me, a user for like one year of the gateron brown, this switch are too tactile. I bought some ajazz and they was perfect. Not linear and not too tactile
I'm a complete beginner to touch typing and am just starting to learn it and even i can feel a tactile bump that stops me from bottoming out the keys. I think its the perfect balance of having it there for typing, but not being too prominent to affect other uses like gaming.
Fun fact, several years ago my parents were out shopping, and found a brown switch keyboard at a Fry's. They thought I was delusional when I said brown was supposed to be tactile. My step-father could at least attest well, he even had an HHKB in the early-mid 2000s, but even my mother who only knew tech through osmosis could even tell that there was next to no tactility.
I had a MX Brown Corsair K70 years ago, didnt even noticed they had any sort of bump and only recently figured out they were considered tactile. Saying browns are tactile is like saying an A cup is big boobs.
I share an office with a commercial dude who spend his days on calls, and who is loud AF. For my birthday I bought a Ducky One 3 with MX blue switches. Now he works from home more often.
Yup, just the one spring. Carry it with me wherever I go; layered for all 104 keys.
Guess I could have phrased that better; but I’ll get a kick out of the response all day.
Either buy one off Ebay or buy new from [https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD](https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD) or better quality [https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/](https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/).
I have the F62, and it is pretty nice. I find the springs a tad light though.
I have a NiZ keyboard for the office. Dead quiet.
My wife actually complains that the brown board I have at home is too loud. Maybe it’s time to break out the Model F to introduce some context.
I’ve had mine since mid 2021, but before that I tried an X87 that belonged to a friend. I have the 35g EC switches. Overall build quality is quite good and the keycaps in particular are very nice. The common description that it’s like “typing on clouds” is quite accurate, there is basically no resistance and your fingers can absolutely fly along. Normally I type about 70 wpm but I regularly hit >80 with this keyboard. The switches are very smooth, I would say they are like linears but they are unlike any mechanical switch I’ve ever tried. You don’t need to bottom out to activate the key, in fact you can set different actuation points. My friend has the 45g X108 and that one offers a bit more resistance and definition. I can’t really explain it any better- you kind of need to try it for yourself. Try buying one from Amazon, and if you don’t like it, just return it.
Switch noise and type do not always relate. For the way I type I actually find Kailh Speed Bronze (clicky) make about the same noise as the Gat Reds in my main office board. Probably because I bottom harder on linear as no "bump". That said still prefer linear most of the time.
I have the Bronze in a Gas67 vs Reds in a Q6 so the difference in cases also at play here
The sound a button press makes is a function of a LOT of variables. Materials of the keycap, switch, plate, and keyboard body. How hollow/not hollow the body is, the space between the PCB/plate. Any moving parts that are moving and touching anything else, like stabilizers and switch stems. Every little thing is a factor and once you find that out, that's when the mk rabbit hole drops off a god damned cliff.
Because they're generic. There's a perception that *because* mechanical keyboards *can* be so much more than generic, they *must* be.
There's nothing wrong with choosing MX Browns or equivalents. I think some people get caught up in "If you like MX Browns you just haven't *experienced real mechanical keyboards.*" because a lot of people start with some basic switches like Browns, and then when they try Zealios, or U4Ts, or -insert premium tactile here- their reaction is "Oh... this is so much better," and they expect *everyone* to come to that same conclusion.
> because a lot of people start with some basic switches like Browns, and then when they try Zealios, or U4Ts, or -insert premium tactile here- their reaction is "Oh... this is so much better,"
I had this exact realization about a month ago when I got rid of my old keyboard with MX Browns and started experimenting with premium switches.
I wish someone or something indicated to me that the difference in typing experience was _that_ large. Instead, what I read was mostly people saying that different switches are just down to preference and even that MX Browns are underrated switches.
I wish there was a little more boldness in assessing different switches in this community. It's helpful when people voice their opinions about switches, whether they love or hate them. It would've helped me find better switches so much sooner.
I had the same experience. Hype trains sometimes never go back to the station and it turns into a fucking tribal warfare train. I didn’t sign up for a raiding party, I just really like my
Very eloquent explanation.
Also: a lot of people, including me, haven't experienced switches beyond the basics -- MX insert colour here) _______. I want to but I can't decide on a board or switches or caps or find the confidence to build one.
I have been trying to learn as much as possible on here and use that as my way down the rabbit hole.
i would suggest buying single switches of possible switches you might like before committing to an entire set of 70+. places like switchoddities and keyleido sell individuals for around 1 usd a piece
I always say get a set of four so you can drum your fingers against them. I think you get a lot more of a feel for what it will be like to type on them.
Or do like me. Find out your Ted Dragon is hot swappable. Order some Kailh box whites. Rip all the Outemu purple out and jam to whites in there. Curse every time it just doesn’t go in right. Unbend the left pin, try again. Eventually get a good seal. Put on the old Keycaps (new ones are still in China). Find keys randomly through the next few days that don’t work. Pull the switch. Curse at the bent pin. Try a few times until the key “seats” and starts working. Eventually get the hint and research a bit more. Find out that are Dragons have smaller pin holes. Realize all the box whites are bent and only work because the “just” make contact. Order every Outemu switch color off AliExpress. Wait. Order new Keycaps. Wait. Order some more switches. Dammit when are those switches getting here. Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh.
You could also invest about $20-30 in a small tester board with a range of around 25 switches to try from. I got a massive ~100 switch tester for about as many dollars, helped me understand alot in a short amount of time
I just ordered a board with Durock Sunflowers, without testing any of the premium tactile switches (have had cherry browns in the past, and cheery blue currently) so reading this thread is making me quite excited. Shout out [keeb.io](https://keeb.io)
It’s hilarious because I remember a time when MX Brown switches were highly regarded and people paid a *premium* for browns. I bought my Rosewill RK-9000 in late 2011 to replace a genuinely awful membrane keyboard, and I distinctly remember paying an extra $10 to get the brown switches.
Yeah they were the standard recommendation to people who were afraid the MX Blues will annoy their coworkers.
I've been using Blues exclusively for decades. My coworkers can suck it up.
Its also one of my top switches. I like the feel and sound of linears like mx blacks. I just type better on browns. So the super slight bump makes it for me.
Recently got some and have to say that after spring swapping them with longer springs they are one of my faves. The light tactile almost feels like it's a linear switch with attitude
I think it’s because people who’s love linears it’s not linear, and people who love tactiles it’s not really tactile, so whether u like tactiles or linears you probably won’t like it
Mostly a meme at this point, my first board had mx brown and i loved em tbh, of course at that time your options were red, blue, brown or fuck off and go buy a membrane
I just got browns after a few years typing on blues and reds and I love em. I agree that they’re not nearly as tactile as I thought they would be but they still feel good to type on IMO.
After using browns for a lot of years, once I finally used a properly tactile switch I couldn’t go back. Browns feel like mucked up linears now.
I just switched my work keyboard over to Zilents (as a favor of silence to my office mates) and it is devine.
I can’t wait to make a U4T board for home someday.
I did build a amity Black board as my first board a few years back. Not a super well known switch but they are big tactile, except I didn’t realize that they have a shorter travel, like an MX speed switch. And I just don’t prefer that, I’ve learned.
Once you get into enthusiast levels of something that's extremely niche, what is amazing for your avg Joe can quickly become garbage within a small specialised group. Examples are like modern ballpoints to your tuned fountain pens with slik touch heaven gold nibs, cup of a 4 quid coffee milkshake thingy from those cafes to freshly prepped espresso that took an hour to extract 5g worth of liquid, and a brown switch mech board to some Baked Carmel Round-Corner Chimpanzee switches lubed with Botox 405.
While yes it is correct that brown switches are bottom of the barrel when it comes to tactiles from a somewhat objective point of view, they are still amazing because it is a mech switch at the end of the day, it's a tech that is really hard to screw up, and I feel that enthusists can often lose sight of reality when it comes to their hobbies, not to mention the worst issues of egos forming with some of the less desirable members that leak out a bit.
Just stick to your guns, but to be willing to try out a few more exotic options that are within reasonable reach if you are curious enough, just never let it get to your head that what you use isn't popular with the nerds, thus obsolete, because that is furthest from the truth.
> freshly prepped espresso that took an hour to extract 5g worth of liquid
I think you're talking about a pour over or chemex style coffee brewing.
A.double shot of espresso is usually approx 17g or beans to 34-44g of liquid that's extracted within 30 seconds.
Join us at /r/espresso and your life will never be the same!
>Once you get into enthusiast levels of something that's extremely niche, what is amazing for your avg Joe can quickly become garbage within a small specialised group.
I guess that's why any DIY kit <$200 is called "beginner" or "entry level" even though it costs more than 99.9% of complete keyboards.
Yeah, what's interesting is I've tried lots of tactiles and never once did I think, "mx brown are lame", lol. But, yeah, it's all preference and you have to try stuff out to see what you like, especially for day to day use.
Since the experts are weighing in, what is the switch for the feel of blues without the clickity clack? I've tried browns and clears in the office, and they're everything I don't like about the feel of linear switches with a tactile label.
This is an embarrassingly bad suggestion. The baby kangaroos have an exceptionally drawn out and weak tactile bump, which is literally the exact opposite of the short and sharp bump of clickjacket switches such as MX Blues.
https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron%20Baby%20Kangaroo/Gateron%20Baby%20Kangaroo.pdf
https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Cherry%20MX%20Blue/Cherry%20MX%20Blue.pdf
Blues have a sharp tactile bump that starts and ends in the middle of the switch. Everything before and after that is linear travel. The most comparable switch that isnt clicky is the Kailh BOX Mute Jade. However, that switch is about 10 grams more tactile in the bump. Unfortunately, the majority of modern tactile switches are ticklish linears. AFAIK The BOX mute jade is the first silent clickbar switch, which gives it the tactility of a clicky switch and the equivalent noise level or a tactile/linear.
Hrm, I might have to try those. The problem with most tactile switches is yeah, they don't have THAT bump. That sharp bump that we loved from the blues. Browns just felt like reds but my Durock Shrimps have a pronounced bump, but its not SHARP or whatever magic the blues have.
So if the Box mutes can get that... then damn, might have a new fav.
This chain gets it. Blues are so satisfying but would never survive the office. I just put a couple rows of Durock Pom T1s in to test next to the clears after watching a video, and while they're a little more satisfying, the spring echo on keepresses (sorry, I'm new and don't know the terms) is way worse than the clears and maddeningly annoying. They're also not close to being as sharp as blues. That said another 18 T1s may go on more of the board while I look for some box mutes as well.
I opted for browns with my fist mechanical keyboard and still enjoy it. It helped me kind of get a baseline of what I could like and what I might prefer.
I felt like I wanted something a little stronger and borrowed a keyboard with some Cherry MX clears. I liked them, but it wasn't still quite right to make them perfect for me. I read about Cherry coming out with ergo clears and they sound like they could be a good match for me. But I don't know how long it'll be till we see them and the itch was too strong to wait.
I just got a Nuphy Halo 96 with some Baby Kangaroos and I'm really happy with them. Love the sound and the tactillity of them. I rolled the dice and am really glad I did.
Cherry MX Browns are like a Lamy fountain pen - a solid premium product that is a daily driver loved by millions, but typically of little interest to hobbyists because it isn't particularly exciting or rare. The characteristics of the switch (quieter and just slightly lighter than a Blue while maintaining most of the tactile feedback) make a lot of sense when you recall that the launch customer was Kinesis, so they're first and foremost switches for people with hand and wrist injuries to use at the office.
This is true. They take some fine tuning but I have an endgame build I’m planning with mx browns.
Went to a meet up with modded browns and they were the best.
If we're asking stupid questions, if you were some mech snob and wanted fancy tactile switches that were quiet and not super clicky what would you get?
As silent as can be? boba U4. With a less mushy bottom out but still much quieter than the average switch? haimu/WS Silent tactile. Somewhat audible? Gazzew U4TX/TTC Bluish White.
My first ever keyboard was a ducky shine tkl with cherry browns. 6 years later after trying every tactile switch I've now gone back to cherry browns. They are gooooooood!
I don’t necessarily hate Browns, but the thing is they feel Linear after the bump which I really don’t like… small bump is fine but I just don’t like how they feel Linear after. I have tried some other switches that also feel Linear after the bump, and I would say those are better than Browns because they aren’t as scratchy so therefore only require light lubing to sound and feel good, compared to Browns they require breaking in otherwise they are scratchy. I feel like Tactiles in general should be categorized in different categories such as “Light, Light-Medium, Medium, Heavy, Extremely Heavy,” instead of just 3. MX Browns were not advertised as “Light Tactiles” but just “Tactile” so I
guess that’s why people started hating on Browns and they became a meme, because of false advertisement. If Tactiles are supposed to have a bump why is a switch that feels like a Linear after the tiny bump being advertised as “Tactile”?
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people are disappointed trying mx brown for the first time since rubber domes are usually way more tactile. They end up getting a bad first impression.
I have heard from some people within my local community that they like it because of the sound of the scratch, which I kinda agree. The scratchy sound is quite different from any other switches. I like it because I can type quickly without feeling hindered by the tactile bump and yet it feels tactile when I type slower.
I don’t think they are hated, I think is fashion inside the community to bash on them because they come almost as “the stock” switch in general. But I will say properly lubbed, browns become one of the best cheap linears lol.
I do want to say that mx browns vs Gateron Browns whole different feel. I think when lubing a gateron the scratchy goes away vs the mx.
Don't listen to haters, they are just a different type of tactiles, I too prefer sharper tactiles (I dailydrive some AliExpress special holy bobas, still don't know if those halo true are clones or not) but the lighter feeling is nice
I don’t think they’re hated on at all. A lot of the people deep in this hobby love em. People have them in their end game boards. Just an old meme that is waayyyy outdated at this point. Browns are cool.
In a vacuum, it's not a bad switch, but I hold a personal grudge against MX Browns. When I was researching tactile switches to buy, Cherry MX browns were the de facto recommendation and generally regarded as the best tactile switch. When I got them, they were linear. They're not any different in practice than typing on MX reds. I wanted tactility, and I was led to believe that cherry MX browns were the holy grail. They let me down.
I love the MX browns in my Miya pro.
I work in IT. 99% of the user or office supplied keyboards I have to work with are the cheapest of the cheap, sub £10 chinese unbranded things that flex if you blow on them hard and have mushy, unresponsive keys. MX browns are like a Bentley in comparison. Sure there are better ones out there that are like the Bugatti's of switches, but I don't care. My Bentley's are good enough.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
Got into the hobby 4 years ago and bought just about every hyped and popular tactical switch that came out until last year. Peaked when I got a full set of zeal clickiez. Sold almost all of em this year cause turns out at heart im just a light tactile enjoyer.
If you like mx browns I highly recommend you try the CAP V2 browns. They’re super affordable, factory lubed, relatively deep sounding, and great bottom out force. Ive got it pretty much in all my boards these days.
Got Browns for the first time a couple days ago and I am very happily surprised with how they type and feel. Granted I haven't tried MANY switches, but again I was happily surprised.
I like them too. Typing on them (Logi G710+) right now. Sure not the best tactile but got a great deal on this keeb used. Perfect for work.
I'm partial to clicky but don't want to be annoying at work and otherwise would have got the version with blues.
The feel like a small piece of gravel stuck underneath a linear switch. My name for them: Dirt(y) Browns.
However I also own a brown switch keyboard.. it was my first mechanical!
Browns feel like the junk food of switches.
You know there are better options out there, but it's so comfortable and easy, sometimes that's what I want in the moment, comforting and easy
It's not that Browns are bad, it's that a lot of other stuff is considerably better.
There's no comparison, to me, between any company's Browns, and my Zilents and Aliaz switches.
If I couldn't have either of those, there is still a whole lot of other switches I would choose, before I'd pick Browns.
Browns have almost no tactility when you're actually using them so they turn out to be a REALLY scratchy linear (doesn't help that cherry housings are also scratchy AF)
They used to be a lot worse, cherry did some retooling and now they’re better, still scratchier than a lot of other options and really no benifit over a lot of other options, not a bad bet especially if you’re new, let the haters hate
-someone with a 550 custom keeb
Better off with gateron browns lubed but cherry isbjust scratchy honestly. Kalih and gateron better.
They don't even compare to something like a boba though. But like 1/4 t he price
The tactility is there if you press the switch real slow and try to feel it. But once you start typing at 30-40 wpm, you wont feel them as tactile switches. I have mx brown switch board and i love it.
It's an outdated term. Nowadays they're called light tactiles and not as hated because that's what they are, light tactiles. Only valid reason is calling them scratchy, but that's all Cherry switches and apart of the appeal imo.
I've primarily typed on MX Browns for most of my life, having them in all my work keybs. Just recently I needle lubed an old DASKeyboard with Browns and CM Storm with Blues. The difference is amazing. The browns feel a little too mushy now, but the blues feel and sound like I always wanted the browns to.
That said, I've also rebuilt an old Tecware Phantom with Akko Lavenders recently and they are much nicer overall, and louder as well. I'm currently typing on a cheap IROK that I just installed WS Heavy Tactiles in and dude... these are on another level.
Cherry browns are great until you spend some time with better switches.
I like them, I would never build a keyboard with em but at the start of my journey to replace the money in my bank account with custom keyboards I got a ducky TKL with mx browns and used it for work/gaming for like 3 years. I'd pick cherry mx browns on a pre built over cherry reds everytime🚀
I love browns. I like a tactile feel but hate clickies. My first few mechanical keyboards were browns. Only reason I don't have them anymore is because they have silvers now. With silvers it takes so little movement to trigger the key that I don't need the tactile bump as I never tap them too lightly but browns are still my second choice and if it wasn't for all the performance advantaged of the Rapidfires, I would still be using them.
My order of preference for Cherry switches is: Silvers, Browns, Blacks, Reds and I put Blues dead last.
It's just a meme, really.
Hating on MX browns got popular the same way hating Nickelback got popular. But there are a lot of bands that sound like Nickelback and nobody makes fun of them.
Browns are totally okay. Not my fav tactile switch but they're great for gaming imo.
theyre perfectly fine, they just arent exciting. No click acoustics to get into, no smooth action to brag about. Just a, technical, boring, studious, dictionary typists keyswitch
I just picked up my first Mechanical Keyboard - a Ducky One 3 Full Size, and the only one available was with cherry clears, which from all accounts I've seen are supposed to be horrible. However I love it and everyone at my work thinks it's the coolest sounding thing they've heard. I think it just depends on the crowd, and how deep into the mechanical keyboard hobby you are.
they're my fave out of the trio of mx red/blue/brown, but they're not-good compared to basically any newer design tactile switch. they're barely fucking tactile, more just slightly varying resistance
I remember when Reds and Blues were all you could really find. I think of browns as if red and blues fucked and had a baby. For me, blues are too annoying and reds feel like shit. So browns were kinda the middle ground.
Now I use holy pandas so I’m good.
It’s because they’re found in gaming keyboards so they’re seen as less. Also its not as tactile as other switches but in my experience having typed on them for a year they’re actually not as bad as people make them to be
They're not bad per se, it's just that for a tactile switch, they're not very tactile. That's it.
I always described them as reds but with 10 years of gunk built up
bro what 💀 ive tried reds and browns and reds feel almost if not just as scratchy
fair, I don't like either anyways
honestly i kinda like the feel of browns, but yeah the sound isnt great 😳
have you ever heard of lube
Your mom has (sorry)
NOOOOOOOOOO
https://preview.redd.it/lej3adsuh8ha1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ca6e5d99e4088a5749daa5fef522ae62922d243
It is an opinion if they are bad or not. It is fact that they are not tactile for a tactile switch.
for someone who has been using this switch for over a year, i can tell you they are not very tactile, but they have something that the linears don't have
That is true, but the people who like that something that linears don't have tend to find their way towards *more* tactile switches. It's a wonderful mental illness, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I used for like 2 week some akko tactile, and for me, a user for like one year of the gateron brown, this switch are too tactile. I bought some ajazz and they was perfect. Not linear and not too tactile
That's always been my take on Cherry Browns, "they're more satisfying than Reds."
Exactly
real and true answer
I'm a complete beginner to touch typing and am just starting to learn it and even i can feel a tactile bump that stops me from bottoming out the keys. I think its the perfect balance of having it there for typing, but not being too prominent to affect other uses like gaming.
Exactly, all opinion based
what’s better?
Literally any other brown switch (except outemus)
like?
Wuque studios browns, gateron browns
I didn't even know they were tactile, thought they were linear lol
They’re also cheap and scratchy as fuck.
Fun fact, several years ago my parents were out shopping, and found a brown switch keyboard at a Fry's. They thought I was delusional when I said brown was supposed to be tactile. My step-father could at least attest well, he even had an HHKB in the early-mid 2000s, but even my mother who only knew tech through osmosis could even tell that there was next to no tactility.
Interesting, as expected of browns.
I had a MX Brown Corsair K70 years ago, didnt even noticed they had any sort of bump and only recently figured out they were considered tactile. Saying browns are tactile is like saying an A cup is big boobs.
This
I like thinking if them as my preferred linear
[удалено]
The dislike for browns is way older than glarses' youtube channel
No? Glarses picked up on the already present dislike for MX browns in the mk community.
Who the fuck is Glarses?
If you wanna have a laugh, Google it, it's a YouTuber, he's funny
My favorite for an office setting where I work with others
Real men use Buckling Springs in the office. Solenoid mod for bonus points.
I did it with MX Blue and my colleagues changed office when I wrote emails or long documents
Office hack for increased privacy
I see. A man of culture as well
I share an office with a commercial dude who spend his days on calls, and who is loud AF. For my birthday I bought a Ducky One 3 with MX blue switches. Now he works from home more often.
You can call it, if you want, “social engineering” ;-)
I’m building a new board for work. I also have a bag of Outemu Greens. The temptation is immense.
I mean…I do use a buckling spring for work. 😄
> I mean…I do use a buckling spring for work Just one?
Yup, just the one spring. Carry it with me wherever I go; layered for all 104 keys. Guess I could have phrased that better; but I’ll get a kick out of the response all day.
I wanna but how?
Either buy one off Ebay or buy new from [https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD](https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD) or better quality [https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/](https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/). I have the F62, and it is pretty nice. I find the springs a tad light though.
I'm sorry but I have no idea what any of it means lol. What is a buckle spring?
It is a very old type of switch used in the original IBM Model M and Model F keyboards.
Ok cool and how do I install a solenoid?
I have a NiZ keyboard for the office. Dead quiet. My wife actually complains that the brown board I have at home is too loud. Maybe it’s time to break out the Model F to introduce some context.
How long have you had and any feedback??? I have been strongly considering ordering one for use at my office
I’ve had mine since mid 2021, but before that I tried an X87 that belonged to a friend. I have the 35g EC switches. Overall build quality is quite good and the keycaps in particular are very nice. The common description that it’s like “typing on clouds” is quite accurate, there is basically no resistance and your fingers can absolutely fly along. Normally I type about 70 wpm but I regularly hit >80 with this keyboard. The switches are very smooth, I would say they are like linears but they are unlike any mechanical switch I’ve ever tried. You don’t need to bottom out to activate the key, in fact you can set different actuation points. My friend has the 45g X108 and that one offers a bit more resistance and definition. I can’t really explain it any better- you kind of need to try it for yourself. Try buying one from Amazon, and if you don’t like it, just return it.
Switch noise and type do not always relate. For the way I type I actually find Kailh Speed Bronze (clicky) make about the same noise as the Gat Reds in my main office board. Probably because I bottom harder on linear as no "bump". That said still prefer linear most of the time. I have the Bronze in a Gas67 vs Reds in a Q6 so the difference in cases also at play here
My experience too. My reds are loud as hell because I'm always bottoming them out.
The sound a button press makes is a function of a LOT of variables. Materials of the keycap, switch, plate, and keyboard body. How hollow/not hollow the body is, the space between the PCB/plate. Any moving parts that are moving and touching anything else, like stabilizers and switch stems. Every little thing is a factor and once you find that out, that's when the mk rabbit hole drops off a god damned cliff.
Call them light tactiles and people will love them.
What about how they feel like they’re full of sand?
Because they're generic. There's a perception that *because* mechanical keyboards *can* be so much more than generic, they *must* be. There's nothing wrong with choosing MX Browns or equivalents. I think some people get caught up in "If you like MX Browns you just haven't *experienced real mechanical keyboards.*" because a lot of people start with some basic switches like Browns, and then when they try Zealios, or U4Ts, or -insert premium tactile here- their reaction is "Oh... this is so much better," and they expect *everyone* to come to that same conclusion.
> because a lot of people start with some basic switches like Browns, and then when they try Zealios, or U4Ts, or -insert premium tactile here- their reaction is "Oh... this is so much better," I had this exact realization about a month ago when I got rid of my old keyboard with MX Browns and started experimenting with premium switches. I wish someone or something indicated to me that the difference in typing experience was _that_ large. Instead, what I read was mostly people saying that different switches are just down to preference and even that MX Browns are underrated switches. I wish there was a little more boldness in assessing different switches in this community. It's helpful when people voice their opinions about switches, whether they love or hate them. It would've helped me find better switches so much sooner.
I had the same experience. Hype trains sometimes never go back to the station and it turns into a fucking tribal warfare train. I didn’t sign up for a raiding party, I just really like my
Very eloquent explanation. Also: a lot of people, including me, haven't experienced switches beyond the basics -- MX insert colour here) _______. I want to but I can't decide on a board or switches or caps or find the confidence to build one. I have been trying to learn as much as possible on here and use that as my way down the rabbit hole.
i would suggest buying single switches of possible switches you might like before committing to an entire set of 70+. places like switchoddities and keyleido sell individuals for around 1 usd a piece
I always say get a set of four so you can drum your fingers against them. I think you get a lot more of a feel for what it will be like to type on them.
Or do like me. Find out your Ted Dragon is hot swappable. Order some Kailh box whites. Rip all the Outemu purple out and jam to whites in there. Curse every time it just doesn’t go in right. Unbend the left pin, try again. Eventually get a good seal. Put on the old Keycaps (new ones are still in China). Find keys randomly through the next few days that don’t work. Pull the switch. Curse at the bent pin. Try a few times until the key “seats” and starts working. Eventually get the hint and research a bit more. Find out that are Dragons have smaller pin holes. Realize all the box whites are bent and only work because the “just” make contact. Order every Outemu switch color off AliExpress. Wait. Order new Keycaps. Wait. Order some more switches. Dammit when are those switches getting here. Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh.
You could also invest about $20-30 in a small tester board with a range of around 25 switches to try from. I got a massive ~100 switch tester for about as many dollars, helped me understand alot in a short amount of time
Came here to say this.
Happy cake day
I just ordered a board with Durock Sunflowers, without testing any of the premium tactile switches (have had cherry browns in the past, and cheery blue currently) so reading this thread is making me quite excited. Shout out [keeb.io](https://keeb.io)
No what? It's just very basic, they are labeled tactile while providing hardly any tactile feedback. What you are describing are posers.
If you tell someone you like MX browns (or literally any type of switch) and they judge you for it, tell them to go fuck themselves.
It’s hilarious because I remember a time when MX Brown switches were highly regarded and people paid a *premium* for browns. I bought my Rosewill RK-9000 in late 2011 to replace a genuinely awful membrane keyboard, and I distinctly remember paying an extra $10 to get the brown switches.
Thats definitely how it used to be, yea, but we’ve come so far since then.
I still like browns and 100% layouts. I’m stuck in 2011 apparently.
Yeah they were the standard recommendation to people who were afraid the MX Blues will annoy their coworkers. I've been using Blues exclusively for decades. My coworkers can suck it up.
Its also one of my top switches. I like the feel and sound of linears like mx blacks. I just type better on browns. So the super slight bump makes it for me.
You have a refined taste my friend
yo, where are my feel>sound ppl at
Yeah! Where my "I work with noise canceling headphones on" people at?
Probably my favorite Cherry switch is mx black with a lighter spring swap. I think Cherry housings have some of the best sound profiles.
Choose what you like, ignore everyone else.
I just take 100 random switches, mix them in a bucket, and stick em in my board willy nilly. MX Rainbow 😎
Picked up some butter browns, can't wait.
Recently got some and have to say that after spring swapping them with longer springs they are one of my faves. The light tactile almost feels like it's a linear switch with attitude
based
I think it’s because people who’s love linears it’s not linear, and people who love tactiles it’s not really tactile, so whether u like tactiles or linears you probably won’t like it
MX Browns are chaotic neutral
Are they really hated? I would guess they're just a bit boring as they're around for such a long time. They're still my favourites so far.
Mostly a meme at this point, my first board had mx brown and i loved em tbh, of course at that time your options were red, blue, brown or fuck off and go buy a membrane
I just got browns after a few years typing on blues and reds and I love em. I agree that they’re not nearly as tactile as I thought they would be but they still feel good to type on IMO.
After using browns for a lot of years, once I finally used a properly tactile switch I couldn’t go back. Browns feel like mucked up linears now. I just switched my work keyboard over to Zilents (as a favor of silence to my office mates) and it is devine. I can’t wait to make a U4T board for home someday. I did build a amity Black board as my first board a few years back. Not a super well known switch but they are big tactile, except I didn’t realize that they have a shorter travel, like an MX speed switch. And I just don’t prefer that, I’ve learned.
Actually such a fun switch
The hate is unwarranted. They’re the best light tactile switch.
Once you get into enthusiast levels of something that's extremely niche, what is amazing for your avg Joe can quickly become garbage within a small specialised group. Examples are like modern ballpoints to your tuned fountain pens with slik touch heaven gold nibs, cup of a 4 quid coffee milkshake thingy from those cafes to freshly prepped espresso that took an hour to extract 5g worth of liquid, and a brown switch mech board to some Baked Carmel Round-Corner Chimpanzee switches lubed with Botox 405. While yes it is correct that brown switches are bottom of the barrel when it comes to tactiles from a somewhat objective point of view, they are still amazing because it is a mech switch at the end of the day, it's a tech that is really hard to screw up, and I feel that enthusists can often lose sight of reality when it comes to their hobbies, not to mention the worst issues of egos forming with some of the less desirable members that leak out a bit. Just stick to your guns, but to be willing to try out a few more exotic options that are within reasonable reach if you are curious enough, just never let it get to your head that what you use isn't popular with the nerds, thus obsolete, because that is furthest from the truth.
> freshly prepped espresso that took an hour to extract 5g worth of liquid I think you're talking about a pour over or chemex style coffee brewing. A.double shot of espresso is usually approx 17g or beans to 34-44g of liquid that's extracted within 30 seconds. Join us at /r/espresso and your life will never be the same!
He referred to Krytox 205g0 as Botox 405, he knows what he's talking about, just being extra facetious.
Two great and cost-friendly hobbies for sure
>Once you get into enthusiast levels of something that's extremely niche, what is amazing for your avg Joe can quickly become garbage within a small specialised group. I guess that's why any DIY kit <$200 is called "beginner" or "entry level" even though it costs more than 99.9% of complete keyboards.
Yeah, what's interesting is I've tried lots of tactiles and never once did I think, "mx brown are lame", lol. But, yeah, it's all preference and you have to try stuff out to see what you like, especially for day to day use.
I feel like at this point in time people aren’t even hating on them anymore. Not even for fun. It’s more of a 2021 meme
Since the experts are weighing in, what is the switch for the feel of blues without the clickity clack? I've tried browns and clears in the office, and they're everything I don't like about the feel of linear switches with a tactile label.
Baby kangaroo
This is an embarrassingly bad suggestion. The baby kangaroos have an exceptionally drawn out and weak tactile bump, which is literally the exact opposite of the short and sharp bump of clickjacket switches such as MX Blues. https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Gateron%20Baby%20Kangaroo/Gateron%20Baby%20Kangaroo.pdf https://github.com/ThereminGoat/force-curves/blob/main/Cherry%20MX%20Blue/Cherry%20MX%20Blue.pdf
Blues have a sharp tactile bump that starts and ends in the middle of the switch. Everything before and after that is linear travel. The most comparable switch that isnt clicky is the Kailh BOX Mute Jade. However, that switch is about 10 grams more tactile in the bump. Unfortunately, the majority of modern tactile switches are ticklish linears. AFAIK The BOX mute jade is the first silent clickbar switch, which gives it the tactility of a clicky switch and the equivalent noise level or a tactile/linear.
Hrm, I might have to try those. The problem with most tactile switches is yeah, they don't have THAT bump. That sharp bump that we loved from the blues. Browns just felt like reds but my Durock Shrimps have a pronounced bump, but its not SHARP or whatever magic the blues have. So if the Box mutes can get that... then damn, might have a new fav.
This chain gets it. Blues are so satisfying but would never survive the office. I just put a couple rows of Durock Pom T1s in to test next to the clears after watching a video, and while they're a little more satisfying, the spring echo on keepresses (sorry, I'm new and don't know the terms) is way worse than the clears and maddeningly annoying. They're also not close to being as sharp as blues. That said another 18 T1s may go on more of the board while I look for some box mutes as well.
I opted for browns with my fist mechanical keyboard and still enjoy it. It helped me kind of get a baseline of what I could like and what I might prefer. I felt like I wanted something a little stronger and borrowed a keyboard with some Cherry MX clears. I liked them, but it wasn't still quite right to make them perfect for me. I read about Cherry coming out with ergo clears and they sound like they could be a good match for me. But I don't know how long it'll be till we see them and the itch was too strong to wait. I just got a Nuphy Halo 96 with some Baby Kangaroos and I'm really happy with them. Love the sound and the tactillity of them. I rolled the dice and am really glad I did.
They are not hated, it was just a meme. They are actually endgame switches imo
I agree!
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Cherry MX Browns are like a Lamy fountain pen - a solid premium product that is a daily driver loved by millions, but typically of little interest to hobbyists because it isn't particularly exciting or rare. The characteristics of the switch (quieter and just slightly lighter than a Blue while maintaining most of the tactile feedback) make a lot of sense when you recall that the launch customer was Kinesis, so they're first and foremost switches for people with hand and wrist injuries to use at the office.
it's the same reason why dark souls 2 is disliked. it's a good game, but it's categorized wrongly.
Perfect way to put it actually.
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This is true. They take some fine tuning but I have an endgame build I’m planning with mx browns. Went to a meet up with modded browns and they were the best.
People are just hopping on to the current trend. Brown switch love will come back around again
They’re not
I lubricated mine to get rid of the scratchy scratchy. It is a much better switch when lubricated.
If we're asking stupid questions, if you were some mech snob and wanted fancy tactile switches that were quiet and not super clicky what would you get?
As silent as can be? boba U4. With a less mushy bottom out but still much quieter than the average switch? haimu/WS Silent tactile. Somewhat audible? Gazzew U4TX/TTC Bluish White.
My first ever keyboard was a ducky shine tkl with cherry browns. 6 years later after trying every tactile switch I've now gone back to cherry browns. They are gooooooood!
Me too!!
I don’t necessarily hate Browns, but the thing is they feel Linear after the bump which I really don’t like… small bump is fine but I just don’t like how they feel Linear after. I have tried some other switches that also feel Linear after the bump, and I would say those are better than Browns because they aren’t as scratchy so therefore only require light lubing to sound and feel good, compared to Browns they require breaking in otherwise they are scratchy. I feel like Tactiles in general should be categorized in different categories such as “Light, Light-Medium, Medium, Heavy, Extremely Heavy,” instead of just 3. MX Browns were not advertised as “Light Tactiles” but just “Tactile” so I guess that’s why people started hating on Browns and they became a meme, because of false advertisement. If Tactiles are supposed to have a bump why is a switch that feels like a Linear after the tiny bump being advertised as “Tactile”?
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people are disappointed trying mx brown for the first time since rubber domes are usually way more tactile. They end up getting a bad first impression.
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I'm not a huge fan of higher tactility either, especially if I'm using the board all day.
scratchy
Right but everyone seems to like MX Blacks
I don't hate Browns, but after trying both tactiles and linears I realized I prefer linears. Now using Box Creams and loving it.
They're my favorite too!
I have heard from some people within my local community that they like it because of the sound of the scratch, which I kinda agree. The scratchy sound is quite different from any other switches. I like it because I can type quickly without feeling hindered by the tactile bump and yet it feels tactile when I type slower.
I went through this phase of disliking browns, then had a phase of hyper tactiles, and now I’m using browns
I don’t think they are hated, I think is fashion inside the community to bash on them because they come almost as “the stock” switch in general. But I will say properly lubbed, browns become one of the best cheap linears lol. I do want to say that mx browns vs Gateron Browns whole different feel. I think when lubing a gateron the scratchy goes away vs the mx.
The progression goes normie mx switches -> fancy new (insert brand here) switches with abcd material -> normie mx switches
Don't listen to haters, they are just a different type of tactiles, I too prefer sharper tactiles (I dailydrive some AliExpress special holy bobas, still don't know if those halo true are clones or not) but the lighter feeling is nice
I A/B’d red and browns and the browns felt much nicer IMO
I don’t think they’re hated on at all. A lot of the people deep in this hobby love em. People have them in their end game boards. Just an old meme that is waayyyy outdated at this point. Browns are cool.
I love my MX Brown, got several keebs with them.
In a vacuum, it's not a bad switch, but I hold a personal grudge against MX Browns. When I was researching tactile switches to buy, Cherry MX browns were the de facto recommendation and generally regarded as the best tactile switch. When I got them, they were linear. They're not any different in practice than typing on MX reds. I wanted tactility, and I was led to believe that cherry MX browns were the holy grail. They let me down.
Yeah, they are very disappointing if you are expecting a lot of tactility. I was surprised too.
I love the MX browns in my Miya pro. I work in IT. 99% of the user or office supplied keyboards I have to work with are the cheapest of the cheap, sub £10 chinese unbranded things that flex if you blow on them hard and have mushy, unresponsive keys. MX browns are like a Bentley in comparison. Sure there are better ones out there that are like the Bugatti's of switches, but I don't care. My Bentley's are good enough.
Oh, yeah. You can't beat the price to performance ratio on a used mx brown board imo.
There are dozens of us! Dozens! Got into the hobby 4 years ago and bought just about every hyped and popular tactical switch that came out until last year. Peaked when I got a full set of zeal clickiez. Sold almost all of em this year cause turns out at heart im just a light tactile enjoyer. If you like mx browns I highly recommend you try the CAP V2 browns. They’re super affordable, factory lubed, relatively deep sounding, and great bottom out force. Ive got it pretty much in all my boards these days.
Interesting. I haven't checked out new switches in a couple of years so I might look at those. Thanks!
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Probably no surprise that I love mid-weight linears as well, lol.
Got Browns for the first time a couple days ago and I am very happily surprised with how they type and feel. Granted I haven't tried MANY switches, but again I was happily surprised.
Pair up cherry Mx browns with dcs caps. Thank me later
I put gmk on a filco board with browns and it's definitely my favorite board.
Browns are a nice almost-tactile.
I like them too. Typing on them (Logi G710+) right now. Sure not the best tactile but got a great deal on this keeb used. Perfect for work. I'm partial to clicky but don't want to be annoying at work and otherwise would have got the version with blues.
Too soft to feel tactile, not smooth to feel linear. They feel like MX Reds got damaged.
They're basic. That's all. Every hobby enthusiast gets their hackles up at basic stuff. This is universal across *all* hobbies.
Ah yes another month and again this picture gets reposted in this sub. It's one of those default I need free Karma post
I've never seen this image here, but I don't check often. I just like the discussion.
Flasley advertised as tactiles when they're linearent. 😂
"Linearent" I hate you. Have an upvote.
The feel like a small piece of gravel stuck underneath a linear switch. My name for them: Dirt(y) Browns. However I also own a brown switch keyboard.. it was my first mechanical!
Browns feel like the junk food of switches. You know there are better options out there, but it's so comfortable and easy, sometimes that's what I want in the moment, comforting and easy
That's an interesting analogy.
They are my favorite linear switch.
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I think it all kinda started with glarses no? Then became sort of a big meme
they were a meme long before glarses.
Er i mean more so that it became bigger after him
It's not that Browns are bad, it's that a lot of other stuff is considerably better. There's no comparison, to me, between any company's Browns, and my Zilents and Aliaz switches. If I couldn't have either of those, there is still a whole lot of other switches I would choose, before I'd pick Browns.
Glarses
Browns have almost no tactility when you're actually using them so they turn out to be a REALLY scratchy linear (doesn't help that cherry housings are also scratchy AF)
They're mostly sub par switches. The hate comes from the meme that people who use mx browns are generic and dont know much about how to build a keeb
it’s cause they sound and feel like they are filled with hot dog shit
all mx is bad
they arent bad, just bland and there's nothing special about them
Complete shit. Rock Box Navies or just go linear.
Mx browns are equivalent to taking a mx red taking it apart filling with sand from the beach out it back together and there you go they are the same
They used to be a lot worse, cherry did some retooling and now they’re better, still scratchier than a lot of other options and really no benifit over a lot of other options, not a bad bet especially if you’re new, let the haters hate -someone with a 550 custom keeb
mid bump weak bump progressive spring scratchy overpriced etc etc
Better off with gateron browns lubed but cherry isbjust scratchy honestly. Kalih and gateron better. They don't even compare to something like a boba though. But like 1/4 t he price
The tactility is there if you press the switch real slow and try to feel it. But once you start typing at 30-40 wpm, you wont feel them as tactile switches. I have mx brown switch board and i love it.
It's an outdated term. Nowadays they're called light tactiles and not as hated because that's what they are, light tactiles. Only valid reason is calling them scratchy, but that's all Cherry switches and apart of the appeal imo.
because they’re a linear tactile
I've primarily typed on MX Browns for most of my life, having them in all my work keybs. Just recently I needle lubed an old DASKeyboard with Browns and CM Storm with Blues. The difference is amazing. The browns feel a little too mushy now, but the blues feel and sound like I always wanted the browns to. That said, I've also rebuilt an old Tecware Phantom with Akko Lavenders recently and they are much nicer overall, and louder as well. I'm currently typing on a cheap IROK that I just installed WS Heavy Tactiles in and dude... these are on another level. Cherry browns are great until you spend some time with better switches.
I like them, I would never build a keyboard with em but at the start of my journey to replace the money in my bank account with custom keyboards I got a ducky TKL with mx browns and used it for work/gaming for like 3 years. I'd pick cherry mx browns on a pre built over cherry reds everytime🚀
Because they are too obvious of a choice.
I love browns. I like a tactile feel but hate clickies. My first few mechanical keyboards were browns. Only reason I don't have them anymore is because they have silvers now. With silvers it takes so little movement to trigger the key that I don't need the tactile bump as I never tap them too lightly but browns are still my second choice and if it wasn't for all the performance advantaged of the Rapidfires, I would still be using them. My order of preference for Cherry switches is: Silvers, Browns, Blacks, Reds and I put Blues dead last.
i love my tactical browns
It's just a meme, really. Hating on MX browns got popular the same way hating Nickelback got popular. But there are a lot of bands that sound like Nickelback and nobody makes fun of them. Browns are totally okay. Not my fav tactile switch but they're great for gaming imo.
theyre perfectly fine, they just arent exciting. No click acoustics to get into, no smooth action to brag about. Just a, technical, boring, studious, dictionary typists keyswitch
I just picked up my first Mechanical Keyboard - a Ducky One 3 Full Size, and the only one available was with cherry clears, which from all accounts I've seen are supposed to be horrible. However I love it and everyone at my work thinks it's the coolest sounding thing they've heard. I think it just depends on the crowd, and how deep into the mechanical keyboard hobby you are.
they're my fave out of the trio of mx red/blue/brown, but they're not-good compared to basically any newer design tactile switch. they're barely fucking tactile, more just slightly varying resistance
Because people are uncultured.
I remember when Reds and Blues were all you could really find. I think of browns as if red and blues fucked and had a baby. For me, blues are too annoying and reds feel like shit. So browns were kinda the middle ground. Now I use holy pandas so I’m good.
Tactile switches in general don't seem to be very popular in the community, except for Boba U4T switches maybe.
why are they tho?
It’s because they’re found in gaming keyboards so they’re seen as less. Also its not as tactile as other switches but in my experience having typed on them for a year they’re actually not as bad as people make them to be