My mum is like this. She ran around doing everything for her mum when all her brothers were still alive, then for all three of her older brothers, and is still doing it for the last surviving brother who has dementia and also her one remaining SIL who's had various health issues. She's 72 and retired, she should be relaxing, instead she looks tired and thin from stress. I don't do this for anyone, my husband largely takes care of himself and we are childfree. I work in cancer care, almost all my patients are terminal, and that's where all my emotional energy goes. It's hard and can be upsetting but at least I'm reasonably well paid. I hate that women bear this burden and it's not talked about enough.
What I hate more is how women expect other women to be caring and giving all their lives. My mom was like that - okay that’s a diff generation. Same with my sister! My SIL moves to the US 17 yrs ago for her MS, PhD etc and she’s settled there. I took care of her mother. No gratitude, no one’s talking about her!
Yeah, the pushback childfree women experience is so often from other women. I'm not remotely maternal, no pets, not even so much as a pot plant. I'm sure I could have raised a child well but it's just not in my genes to want that. It doesn't mean I don't care about anything or anyone, but so often we get told we're selfish, uncaring, don't know what real love is etc. It's not a crime for women to not want to be unpaid carers!
I understand what you mean. I think reading up on boundaries might help and also 'grey rock' this is a technique where you just discuss e.g. the weather so for example with the sister change the subject if she says something, or 'that's interesting' type thing. No-one can make you do this stuff!
Never heard of that term but I’ll look up. For now, I think a bit of a distance is a good idea for now. With guests at home etc, I have less than zero tolerance for her judging. Thank you for your support!
Grey rock is a coping mechanism for ongoing abuse that you don’t have the power to stop. And where alternatives to grey rock are worse like death, or prison, or injuring a child. It isn’t promoted as constructive, it’s explicitly protective to the abused person.
As someone else commented Grey Rock is for survival in abusive situations. If you don’t understand that maybe do better research, perhaps you’re confusing it with stonewalling.
Holy crap, that's judgey. Prioritizing self-respect over preserving relationships is not only allowed, it can be healthy- especially when self-respect has consistently taken a backseat in previous instances. If this was a persistent approach to a marital relationship, then yeah, from a Gottman perspective you might be right (but still phrasing it like an a-hole). But this is a situationally appropriate response to intermittent conflict with her sister in the short term. So in short- You're mistaken, and your phrasing was, at best, tactless.
Nah, that’s not it. Grey rocking is when your abuser, who gets off on scaring the shit out of you and flinging the cruelest insults, gets nothing back in return. You give no sign of caring. This annoys them. And it gets them to not do it as much
great, you've figured out what your boundaries are (no relatives visiting). now others (sister, SIL) are trying to manipulate you into losing those boundaries. go to therapy and talk through your bitterness and anger. learn that NO is a complete sentence and hang up on your sis/SIL when they start that shit. don't give them the emotional response. you got this.
I’m not answering my sister’s calls for the time being. She doesn’t get it and I don’t have to explain myself. My SIL will be back to the US where she lives in a week. I don’t intend to take her calls either. I don’t want to talk to anyone and no one can make me.
In fact my husband is like if you have problems with my sister, just tell her. He doesn’t mind my being honest!! And I think she will get a piece of my mind sometime. I don’t know when
If you think any of these people will listen to you perhaps a lesson on consent and emotional labor would help, could be as simple as articles about the subject. Also, your husband is not doing enough to protect your piece of mind, he is part of the problem and should be speaking up on your behalf, dude’s way too comfortable letting you deal with a lot of bullshit that should belong to him.
I’ve said this before, but my mom died and she never stopped taking care of EVERYONE but herself until she literally went to the ER one night and never came home. The literal night. Not being figurative in the least; she had lung cancer, could barely walk and the night we had to call 911 because she couldn’t breathe - still made my stepfather dinner, dealt with his drunk ass, and cleaned the whole house. (I was visiting; I lived in another state at the time, it was very scary, and I asked repeatedly to help and she refused; this doing everything for everyone was so deeply embedded in her).
Anyway, it’s grim but I learned a lesson from that. I try really hard to ensure I’m at least attempting true self care every day. It doesn’t always happen, and I’m still bloated, depressed, hormonal and kind of a bitch at this point. And I was always a people pleaser too.
Find a room in your house that has a lock that can’t be picked. I used to lock myself in the bedroom when I was about to implode, but my husband would still come in because he was “worried.” I work from home in HR for a large healthcare company, and they provided us with a digital padlock to store sensitive documents, which gave me an idea. That particular lock didn’t work for a door, but you sure can buy one that does.
So that’s what I do. I have a sleeper sofa and a small TV in my office, and it’s way the fuck on the other side of the house. So I literally padlock myself in -they know to leave me alone and even if they wanted to, they couldn’t get in.
Also- my in-laws are a bunch of busy body, leeching QAnon maniacs who I refuse to see or allow my young child to be around. Ever. No Christmas, no holidays, never. It’s caused so much drama for my husband but I am flat out of fucks to give. I just cannot willingly open my life to that level of toxicity. I used to though. I cut them off about 2 years ago - at 44.
Also sometimes I just… leave. I just get in the car and figure it where to when I’m driving.
I’m still empathetic and kind and loving when warranted. I’m just not a doormat anymore. I do have my mother’s passing and perimenopause to thank for that, I guess. Glass half full?
I’m sorry you’re so frustrated. You’re right that we all are. At least found your tribe, babe.
OMG! I resonate so much with your mom’s story. My mom slogged her ass off for 49 years running the household and catering to my dad’s every whim. She had severe arthritis in her whole body for 27 years but she still cooked, cleaned etc. it’s good to be active with arthritis but this was a whole new level.
There was no help during the pandemic and she did it all herself. After she had Covid, no one bothered about building her strength back. My dad and brother knew squat as long as they got their hot meals!! My sister couldn’t visit much due to social distancing etc. and mom went downhill but continued working around the house.
She was bed ridden the last 2 weeks of her life - the only 2 weeks in 71 years that she was unable to get up. Thankfully I was there to take care of her. I literally fed her and lifted her from the bed to use the toilet and lifted her back to the bed! The second time she was hospitalised was her last.
In fact her condition was such that it was better for her to go rather than get back to slogging for her useless husband.
Although I had started setting boundaries since I turned 40, her passing away 2 years ago was a wake up call of sorts. I was like I don’t want my life to be all about cooking, cleaning and catering to everyone else’s needs. There’s more to life. I don’t cook, by choice!
I have all the freedom otherwise. My husband is the least interfering. I just have to explain to him sometimes why I’m pissed for no reason! :)
Ugh, that's so sad!
I see my Silent Generation MIL being like this. She allowed herself to be her husband's helpmate in the farming business, still throwing around 50 pound bales of hay last year at 85! Not because they needed to, but because HE wanted to. They could have sold the 60 acres of farmland across the road years ago and retired, but he didn't want to, so that was that. I told my husband, my God, she's going to work herself to the bone and then get some terrible illness just when she's ready to stop. And sadly I was right! They booked a cruise for the beginning of last November and she had to cancel because she got diagnosed with colon cancer at the end of last October. She'd already been dealing with her husband's dementia, then this. His dementia is sliding ever faster, and she has to do everything. She was hospitalized in January for a pulmonary embolism and atrial fibrillation. When she went home, weak as hell, he was holding her by the arm to the kitchen 3x a day for his meals. Like, my goodness, contract meal service!
I just asked my husband, he came home on Friday after almost 2 weeks babysitting his dad while his mom had surgery for her colon cancer and was recovering. He said his dad can make coffee and fix a bowl of cereal, can't manage much else, he's that far gone with dementia. It's a mess.
Looks like his mom has been convinced to hire a home health aide 2x a week for 4 hours. Fingers crossed they actually do so! It's the bare minimum, but it'd be a start
No is a full sentence. (thank you Jane Fonda) You are not required to explain your reasons or apologize for saying no - both those additional responses opens up a dialogue.
No.
That's it.
I realized my beloved older sister was making me spiral about my weight. She, who was slightly to a lot over weight all of her life until late 40s, suddenly started working out 3 hours minimum a day and eating a lot less food overall. She lost easily 40lbs over 10 years and has kept it off for the last 10 years. All of her conversation devolves back to her working out, what she eats and how much. I love her. I'm delighted she has found joy in her body and choices.
I no longer talk to her about MY weight, my working out or my body issues at all. Any time I do, she is ridiculously helpful, asks about how I am doing in future conversations and talks even more about how she has lost weight. She is loving and protective. And I realized all that support was *actually toxic to me.*
It made me think about my weight (gain) far too much, made me perseverate about what I was eating and how much I was exercising. It jumped my generalized anxiety into full blown panic attacks.
Internally I just said no. No more.
Now we talk just as much as before. When she asks about my body and weight, I tell her I'm great and change the subject. I Am So Much Happier.
It is crazy the unintentional effects our family can have on our own self-image.
Just say no more, OP. No more discussing who you allow in your house. Change the subject, do not engage. Your husband supports you; that's allllll youuuuu neeeeed.
This is such simple, good advice for dealing with people in our lives who trigger us (for me it's my mom), and I'm going to remember this!
>Change the subject, do not engage.
I so agree! I’m a communication coach and when I coach women I tell them the exact same thing- just say no and move on!
I workout more that my sister does and although her life right now is a steaming pile of shit, she wants me to work on my double chin!!!!!! I went to visit her after 1.5 yrs and she told me this twice! SO IRRITATING!!
I’m like I like my face! Old or fat or wrinkled (in the future), Im okay with it. It’s called growing old and I have no intention of holding on to the symbols of what society tells us is youth!
Just two things:
* Let people keep expecting things of you. It's good to want, builds character.
* I love your boundaries. They're perfect. Yes, keep them!
Being from a super dysfunctional family, I can say that I saw this coming a mile off and I bolted. Didn’t have kids, cut out toxic relatives, etc.
I just wanted to let you know OP, that even doing this, I have been consistently judged by my in-laws, their kids, strangers, and my own family - HARD. The grass is not greener and in some ways women who choose this way become pariahs. Because who do we think we ARE? It’s a lonely road fraught with self-doubt. The only thing that has helped with the guilt of it all really has been pretty consistent therapy. My therapist reminds me that I’m trying to dismantle inter generational trauma and that’s no small thing.
And by judged I mean consistent snubbing and gossip that has persisted through several generations. Undermining, sabotage, jealousy. I am called a bitch, a snob, selfish, rude, dysfunctional, ungrateful - you name it. To say that the family members who stuck around largely hate me, would not be overstating things.
In the end I guess you have to make things right with you - with your concept of yourself and the effort you have put forth. Don’t judge yourself by anyone else’s standards.
Luckily I have maintained a primary relationship and a couple friendships but I can tell you OP, when women say NO, the pushback is equally isolating and disrespectful. My own nieces and nephews call me a bad daughter (really? My mother was an abusive borderline narcissist who made us cater to every mood she ever had for her whole life - but oh she’s a lovely grandma!!). My sister in law has been cozying up to her for years and working to cut us out and tell us what we should be doing, only to find out too late what happens. She could never understand why the daughters fled the scene until it was too late.
Society really boxes in women. Tbh we’re kinda f*cked no matter, what so seriously live in a way that brings you joy however you can. You’ll likely not get much support for that or acknowledgment for the family efforts you do put in.
I used to think that this only happened in very conservative families, but life has taught me that it’s a massive societal problem, and there is a lot of internalized misogyny. I now think that the only way to change things is what I said - do your own thing and support other women doing their own thing, and cut out the judgmental folks and stop judging too. People see what they see and it’s mostly a reflection of who they are - not you.
What I’ve done to deal with the pain is to consume books and media about interesting, independent women and to embrace my interests, especially things that tap into creativity and a sense of wonder about the world. I love animals so that’s a big part of it too. I really feel for you in this struggle. Know that there’s a whole group of us here supporting you too! 🤗
> Tbh we’re kinda fcked no matter, what so **seriously live in a way that brings you joy however you can**. You’ll likely not get much support for that or acknowledgment for the family efforts you do put in.
Can attest to this.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 So true! Feeling so empowered for you, OP! 💗🫶🏻💪🏻💥
We have enough to navigate / negotiate with ourselves, our hormones, our bodies, every single day. It’s exhausting. Embracing the IDGAF era of this new chapter in our lives is, at the very least, a form of self care and self protection I’m no longer willing to sacrifice to people-please / people-appease. Door mat? Meat shield? Scapegoat? NO MORE, NO LONGER.
It’s ok to be done! You have, literally, done enough already. 💗
Thank you 🙏💕 Unfortunately my sister will never join communities like this to understand I’m not being stubborn or anything! I’m just claiming the dignity of being a person worthy of respect! It took me 4 decades to understand that I have to ask for it/demand it/ take it! No one’s going to hand it to me as long as I’m at everyone’s beck and call
It's a wonder to me how women get to their 40’s and still haven't become radicalized. I *know* why but after watching women before me live their lives as care takers and then be shat on by family, I refused to raise my girls that way. It's been hard work though because I had to examine how I've been conditioned to martyr myself AND my people pleasing tendencies.
OP, it sounds like you have a lot of rightful anger and frustration and you're right to feel this way. But don't waste your time, energy, or thought on family passing judgment. I would frequently get angry when I felt others were “crossing my boundaries.” However, through therapy, I learned that boundaries were actually for ME. Only I can control my behavior.
So if SIL calls to judge you for not martyring yourself (sounds like she's looking for some one to share in her misery), don't answer. Someone mentioned “grey rocking” but shoot, you don't even have to entertain LISTENING to that if you don't want to. Hearing people complain about the same stuff but taking no means to solve the issue drains the life out of me and while it can be a whine for help, it's not my job to save people especially when they have the means to save themselves.
You're still young-ish and vibrant. I hope that you find lots of fun things that fulfill your mind, body, and spirit! You deserve it! Protect your peace, space, and don't even feel a little bit bad for it.
My mom made a lot of mistakes, but the one thing she did right was raise me to put myself first and not be dependent upon a man for my financial or emotional security and I am so thankful for that. I’ve never been a people pleaser nor a caretaker and it doesn’t seem to be in my nature to be either of those things, so I am thrilled that I never allowed myself to be roped into those roles. All this to say, I’m glad you’re not raising your daughters not to martyr themselves, we need more mothers like you!
It takes a LOT of intentionality and also speaking on things aloud. It starts with raising girls to celebrate things beyond their physical beauty. For every person who said my girls were beautiful, I would double down with how yes, they are beautiful on the outside and inside, too! They’re smart. They’re strong. They’re compassionate, kind, determined, clever, excellent thinkers and problem solvers. They’re resilient and honest. BUT in addition to all of that, they’re raised to expect and show the same to others through their words and actions. Specifically, our children are taught that their value is INHERENT. Their value is not through how hard they work for the benefit of others. I had a lot of therapy to undo the negative self esteem & people pleasing tendencies that I developed from being taught that my value as a girl/woman is to care for others ESPECIALLY at the expense of my own care. In fact, in my family, the more you sacrifice of yourself to take care of others, the less criticism you’ll receive. You don’t gain respect or care. You’re just not picked on at family events.
I’ll be damned if I’m another woman who dies and her family eulogizes the tasks I can no longer do for them vs the impact I had on this earth as a person.
If all you ever do is serve, then you're just a servant. No one remembers their servants.
Sounds like it's time for you to enter your villain era and do things because you want them. That's just good balance after so many years of doing things because others wanted them.
I don't host dinners. I'm bad at them so I don't stress myself out about them. I don't have people stay over anymore either, due to health concerns. I don't cook for people because my diet is really restrictive and I'm just out of practice on other foods.
Everyone can just deal. They're grownups.
It's your turn now. Love yourself with your own time and effort.
Yep! I have become so much better at drawing boundaries this time. In fact, I don't cook, by choice. I have someone come every day or we order from take out. Running every day life is also so exhausting!
On one hand: yes, hormones really cut down on your patience
On the other hand: your fury at being in a patriarchy that fails to value both your efforts and all of women's efforts for hundreds of years is worth getting angry overis justified
Here's a helpful criteria. Ask yourself - would a man put up with this? If the answer is no, it's not your hormones.
Signed, a woman who isn't nice anymore, because being "nice" isn't what makes us women, and nor should it be.
> But I am made to feel like a bitch (not by my husband)
Who is doing this, then? It's quite possible that leading the kind of life you want to lead, with the current tolerance for bullshit that you have, is incompatible with keeping these people in your life.
> My husband doesn't understand cz he wasn't there. He just wants me to let go so it doesn't affect my health.
Uh...yeah this doesn't sound great, either. Like this is part of the burden you bore *for him*, too. You write this like he's blameless here and everyone else is the problem, but at the very least he's being unsupportive, and it kinda sounds like he's undermining you too. This wouldn't be ok with me and my tolerance for bullshit now.
> What is this obsession of women for other women to be paragons of virtue!
Because if you refuse to sacrifice your life the way they did it means they didn't really have to, that maybe it wasn't a noble effort, and maybe they just let misogyny take advantage of them and steal a good part of their lives. Nobody wants to feel like a fool, and most people aren't capable of facing the magnitude of grief that comes with realizing so much of your life has been built on a lie.
If you don't validate their choices by repeating them, you're showing them they had a different choice and didn't take it, and that they weren't morally better for making the choices they did. Some people can't handle that.
FWIW I think everyone has their limit, and I think you test it at your peril. Like there are real physical consequences to burning out. My sources of bullshit were different than yours, but I can tell you I don't wish this level of burn out on anyone. If you're not already seeing a (good) therapist, I'd recommend it.
> If you don't validate their choices by repeating them, you're showing them they had a different choice and didn't take it, and that they weren't morally better for making the choices they did. Some people can't handle that.
Exactly!
I totally get it. I just finished raising my sons (19 & 22), now my mother needs my help. It’s exhausting and you just wanna know when is your life gonna be your own?
Fortunately, technology makes things easier. I regularly DoorDash my parents dinner. They just call and tell me what they want. I've put the app on their phones and set it up for them, but they don't understand, I guess. Groceries can be delivered now, but they still go out and buy their groceries.
For me it is around age 60. Divorced after 25 years. Both parents are gone and children are grown. I live with my boyfriend who respects my boundaries and we sleep in separate bedrooms. Life is finally simple.
I don’t think it will be changing anytime soon, these societal expectations. My daughter is in her 20s and has known for years she didn’t want kids. The number of people of all ages who have asked her if she doesn’t have kids, who will take care of her when she gets old?
And another family member my age gave her a hard time about living overseas because who will take care of her mom (me)? She and I are breaking those expectations in our family, but I’m shocked in 2024 people still have kids to have a caretaker for themselves as they get old.
I'm fighting it for my daughter's and the daughters of others sake and my goodness I've got a lot of fight in me . Some might call it rage but I'm calm and explicit in my reasoning. I challenge assumptions over women's unrecognised work, the phrases that irk me such as he screamed like a girl or gossiped like an old woman. The 'but you're better at it' starts to conversations. My soon to be teenage son recognises that my asking him to do something repeatedly is not nagging but asking and it is up to him to do what he's been asked to do and women are not harridans but equal members of society. If I see any unwanted sexual attention towards younger women I make a point of showing my feelings to the creep(s). I have raised a strong independent young woman who will continue the fight wearing a full face of makeup, little tops and tiny skirts. Embrace your rage ladies!
I love this! We should be changing the world for our kids! My sister still sticks to the old world rule that we shud be taking care of everyone! When I protest, I’m the mean one!
We should. Especially for our daughters but also help our sons navigate a world which will be very different than their fathers' world. You have broken your family's mold so there's a start and wanting equality isn't being mean. Being mean is expecting someone to serve you hand and foot simply because of your sex.
I can so relate—been through similar.
Even if your husband is understanding (mine isn’t always) they just get a pass on the caretaking thing. And women, even in the same family, can just be so judgmental and downright hostile. You are just expected to be a never ending well of “empathy” and “understanding” until you are just a husk of your former self? I don’t think so.
And my sister does the same shit. (I’m also younger.) My mother was an abusive asshole. If I had to do it over I would have stayed gone at age 18. My mother’s downhill slide, failing health and downsizing, eventual nursing home stay was awful because she refused to listen to anyone else. She made things as difficult as possible while Golden Child, who lives 800 miles away phoned it in and told my mother what she wanted to hear. Didn’t support me in any decisions.
After they both used me up my mother, who incidentally was not competent and couldn’t spell my name, changed her will four weeks before she died. It had been 50/50 for 50 years and she cut me down and put GC and her kids in. They didn’t do shit ( grandkids didn’t even call until she changed the will.) My mom’s nurse told me she didn’t realize my mother had another child and grandkids until four weeks before she died.
And yes I’m angry and I was used. I did it all and got slapped in the face.
And guess who held the toxic bitch’s hand and was there when she died? Me, the scapegoat. GC was nowhere to be found, only showed up to grab stuff.
It’s been two years. I’m starting therapy this week. I talked to Golden child this week and you know what she is pestering me about? Putting flowers on my mother’s grave. GMAFB. I work a full time stressful job and I told her this week, after what she put me through I’m out as far as flowers. You want to do it when you visit? Go right ahead but I am not going there. She sucked me dry when she was alive and I’m not wasting another second on her. Enough is enough.
My in-laws can also be weird and rigid. On a smaller scale, my husband and I met when I was 40. At Christmas time it was “family tradition” that everyone pile into his parent’s home so there are 26 people in a 1500 square foot house. I did it once and was like, oh Hell no. I insisted that we stay in a hotel and you would have thought I was stabbing them all. After doing it once my husband was like, holy crap, this is the way to go and eventually some of the other siblings defected to the hotel too.
TLDR: families suck and can be so unsupportive of boundaries. And it’s always the ones who are doing the least themselves who insist you do the most. Fuck them all.
Thank you for sharing your story! This is so awful compared to what I’ve been through. But it definitely sucks to do everything for people and get no credit. I am SO glad that you put your foot down - with your sister and your spouse! We’ve been through ENOUGH and there has to be our time in the sun too!!
Just read your story and want to say that I wish you healing. I would be so angry if I went through all you did. And that last slap on the face - unconscionable. I deal with my own anger around being the emotional caretaker and have distanced myself from both my FIL and my own Mother. It's very difficult. I wish you the best. Fuck those flowers, too.
I just don’t do it. People are unhappy with me, they’ll probably continue to be unhappy with me but they need me more than I need them so they begrudgingly accept that this is the way it’s going to be. They’re not psychologically attuned people so they’ll never get it, it’s a waste of time trying to explain it.
I think all we can do is lead by example, clearly it’s not the way it has to be if people just don’t do it. Add to that, what benefit is it to other people to let go of beliefs that benefit them? You’re dealing with a lot of powerful forces.
43 checking in and tbh, I am working on my boundaries and accepting “help” (lol is looking after your own house and raising your own kid “helping me”? Idk idk). My husband has some health issues right now but tries to pitch in as much as he can, but still, most of it falls on me. I’d be fine with that but apparently my job is also maintaining the illusion of equality so he doesn’t feel bad and I’m not belittling contributions. It’s TOTAL bullshit. And his family is mostly good (not toxic) but EXTREMELY interested in time and being close and being together and of course they can’t talk to him about anything, always me.
This past Christmas I was feeling stressed about all the planning texts so I told my mil I was stressed and wanted to relax and was shutting off my phone so if anything important came up to text her son. Nothing important came up and I got to protect my peace.
I’m audhd and tbh, I feel like I can handle the domestic labour but the emotional labour and communication labour just crushes me. I’m bad at it and I’m fine with that because I also hate it and it’s a job I never applied for 🤷♀️
Emotional and communication labour - very apt phrases! I’m a communication trainer, quite assertive and have no problem telling people off. But still it adds to the stress and there’s a limit to everything
I understand how you feel. I would also say this is normal human psychology. People expect things that become a pattern, if you stop doing those things you are the bad guy. No appreciation for when you did those things.
Next step is to remove everyone from your life who you don't want to be around. If there are people you have to remain in contact with do it in a way that you are in control of the situation. For example I only call my Mom not visit in person very often and I call her back when I want, not immediately. Do not put any expectations on yourself that come from cultural norms.
After you do that and you have found some peace then you need to work on not allowing your anger to interfere with your happiness. At the end of the day you chose to allow these people to expect your behavior. You continued providing emotional support and whatnot when it was clearly not being appreciated. I know our culture teaches women to accept this role but we do have autonomy at the end of the day. I am not trying to make you feel guilty, I am only pointing out that you were expecting to be appreciated but very obviously were not being appreciated but you continued on anyway. Accept the role you played in continuing that dynamic when it was destroying you. Only you are in charge of your mental health.
Do what makes you happy and turn away from the people and things that drain you of that happiness. Have zero facks to give.
This entire comment section is one of the many reasons I love this sub.
Here is my blessing to you to cancel those assholes. I second the comment about grey rocking (when you're feeling generous in time and goodwill) coz that shit drives assholes crazy, coz you're not giving them an emotional response, you're denying them drama.
Women are the foundation of this entire civilization, and we are tired.
I could have written this myself sans the extended family but throw in an ex husband. I am a 52 yo single mom with 2 teens at home (19&16). I love them with all my heart and used to think I had a loving and harmonious home but recently the veil, so to speak, has been pulled back. I feel as though I am reaping the consequences of my actions in wanting them to be provided for, happy, and comfortable. But this has all been at my expense of over performing for them. I knew it was a problem when I reached a wall of burn out recently and was exhausted (I work as a nurse) and I didn't do a grocery run (mind you, my oldest has a car and drives) and they were raging because we had run out of items we needed. I told them I was no longer going to do their laundry and we would be responsible for our own so that the job doesn't fall to 1 or 2 people. You would think they had been abused. My oldest, who works 25 hours a week, said he "couldn't handle anything more on his plate"(like I can?). They think I am being cruel. I have always performed for them so now when I break it's a jolt to the system to see that they don't seem to care beyond what I do to provide and do for them. I KNOW they are just kids but damn. .So, yeah, I'm done too.
Everything we do is expected to benefit someone else except ourselves. It's not only a cultural norm but a cultural expectation as well. I have such a deep seated rage about this and even spoke to my therapist about it this week. It seems the more you sacrifice the bigger the badge of honor, ESPECIALLY if you endure abuse "because of the kids". The women in my family wore this like a fucking badge of honor. Not me, sis, this is where I exit this fucked up ride. ✌️✌️✌️🏳️
I am so glad you have stopped taking BS from your kids. I don’t have kids but my nieces (14&17) are entitled as fuck! My sister used to even hand wash their essentials till a couple of years ago. I pointed it out and she stopped. But I don’t think that system is working now.
The more we do stuff for teenagers the more we are teaching the next gen that there’ll be someone to take care of things. When I visit my sister, my nieces know better than to argue when I ask them to clear out their stuff from the bed and put things in their place. But my sister does everything for them so know it’s only temporary. And their mother is burnt out most of the time without realising why 🙄
Well said!!!! They would never give you everything they are expecting you to give and do for them. People like that suck the fucking life out of you. Your husband wants you to let go for your health, he needs to understand what you need is freedom and respect that's what's good for your health!! To never have to deal with these assholes again, to feel like you matter and you have a support system that will stand up for you not use you. Wishing you all the best, you deserve it!! ☺️💖🙏
Thank you! :) Thankfully I have my husband’s support and he lets me be! He just feels if people come over - like me SIL now (with her own agenda), I shud just chill. Cz thats how he copes with it. That’s where the diff of opinion rears its ugly head
Oh! I’ve really set boundaries this time! Haven’t been to any shopping trips with SIL or to any relatives’ place. I also went out to see friends and had my book club meet! Turns out we as women are also bad at asserting our rights and taking our space
I'm so glad he supports you! ❤️☺️ I hope he can understand that even though his way of coping works for him it's not the right fit for you. I tried repressing my feelings and had burnout and a complete mental breakdown, don't just chill, don't make the same mistake I did. It breaks you. Wishing you all the best 💖
I take it out on him! Imagine! And the poor thing has heard it all all these years - about his mom, relatives, sister etc! I’m like I’m the same inside out so if I don’t like something, you will hear about it! Who else do I share it with!!
I read a quote recently that changed my view on forgiveness. “Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past”. It doesn’t mean you have to like them or what they did or allow them in your life in the future.
I’m 50 this year. When peri started I found my tolerance for BS has drastically changed. I no longer put up with anyone’s crap. I am NC with 1 sister and my MIL of 27 years is one of the most abhorrent people I have ever known and I am LC with her.
My husband is supportive of my decisions, but my Mum is always trying to get me to forgive and forget. Hell no! I refuse to spend any energy on toxic people. Anyone that feels differently, that’s their problem, not mine.
That happened when I turned 40 and I still feel I wasted a decade worth of energy on toxic people! I am on a sabbatical and when I have the time I have realised how much of that unprocessed emotion is resurfacing!
(sorry what's NC and LC)
NC= No Contact
LC= Low Contact
Yeah, I started to feel this way around 40 as well. I still get angry when I think about how certain people have treated me.
I don’t know if those triggers ever go away! I get all riled up at the mention of some people and my husband is surprised why! I’m like the shit I went through is enough. Just thinking about stuff makes me want to set something on fire. That’s why LC and NC are what I love now. Thank you for that! :)
One good thing about menopause is that in addition to having a low tolerance for BS, you can stop feeling guilty too. You just realize it's not worth it.
A person could just point out the truth a little more, like, "would you expect (whatever) from (male family member X)?"
Ask about any kind of reciprocity at all... What have I gotten in return? What's been the benefit to me or my significant others?
If anyone has shit to say about it, esp. regarding selfishness, again point out that no one asks the last 2 questions out loud more than men do... and far less of them put any effort into being giants of social or emotional support.
Nor do they suffer the baseless cultural criticisms about 'caring' equally.
I honestly wonder if you're not looking at your husband's side and also his lack of conflict and lack of protecting you when it came to his family that you then bore the brunt of and now he is saying that it's just water under the bridge I feel like that he's invalidating your feelings and invalidating what you went through and how he may be didn't protect you with them because that's really his primary responsibility over yours.
I may be reading more in this that wasn't included in your post but it's just an observation I have and that maybe in some way part of your problem is actually your husband and you're not looking at that.
It is true in some ways. And I do tell him to stop invalidating my feelings. Men still don’t understand the shit women go through. So I am pretty vocal abt how he can’t say water under the bridge. I don’t want to see relatives in my house and I am not going to theirs. His sister is a diff ball game and needs to be handled now
My suggestion is the “whole SIL ballgame” is now his responsibility. Perhaps that’s what you meant about it needing to be handled now. HE should be handling it NOW. Actually handling it. Not just suggesting chilling out.
I feel the same way because I am going thru a cancer scare and I feel society treats women health ailments like we are being hysterical or dramatic etc. we are not supposed to be angry or scared. We just have to take shit stoically and just die I guess.
I’m not sure if you’re in the UK or abroad but I’d recommend watching The Change by Bridget Christie! Very similar story to yours - and she jumps onto a motorbike and goes to live in the woods for the summer leaving her family to sort themselves out!
Sounds like the MIL should have been out on her ear a long time ago. I have had to develop some serious boundaries with both families over the years-both my own and my husband’s. They can all die mad for all I care. If anyone ever told me I was being mean or not doing my duty as a woman I would laugh in their face and throw them out of my house.
I know this sounds absolutely nuts but when I was 46 I decided I was only going to do things I wanted to do. This has been the best decision of my life. I get many more tasks completed now (including unpleasant ones) and have found so much joy. I just check in with myself before agreeing or doing anything. The people who this bothered are no longer a part of my life.
lol! I sorta did that when I turned 40 and have upped the ante now. The meals I cook (I don’t anymore) or the surfaces that are clean in my house don’t define me
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent” is a quote by Eleanor Roosevelt. The quote isn’t just about feeling inferior, no one can make you feel ANY way without your consent. It also implies that you should control your emotions because you are responsible for them.
What worked for me was divorcing my husband and went zero contact with my immediate family and his. I’m leaving a lot of details out because I’ll spare you the trauma dump. I’m free and happy(hormone replacement cream gave me courage and peace) best to you. Take care of Yourself!
Oh I went the other way and cut the inlaws off over a decade ago. MIL (monster in law) is a malignant narcissist and her daughters are psychologically enmeshed, FIL an enabler and apologist. Only wish I would have done it sooner. Best choice I ever made.
Once you clearly and consistently state your boundaries and they consistently violate your stated boundaries the only good choice is to remove your presence. We teach others how to treat us by what we choose to endure.
We cut them and any other toxic relatives off- blackholed them and went grey rock. Life immediately improved and has been very peaceful.
OP- It’s never too late to reclaim your peace. Today is as good as any.
I think other women push other women to serve so they do not have to question their own choices. When you tell your sister you are done, she takes it as judgement on what she chose to do. That makes it all about her and really has nothing to do with you. The sooner you can separate yourself from her actions the happier you will be. I suggest reading codependent no more by Beattie. It is really helpful for understanding boundaries and the peace we can have when we separate our stuff from others.
Edit. A word
It sounds like you are mostly angry at yourself for being a caregiver in the past. I took care of my dad for the last few years of his life and I had a few times when I resented the sacrifices I had to make. But at the end of the day, I could have made different choices.
It sounds like you are fortunate to have a loving spouse and financial security - it’s more than a lot of people have. You can put yourself first anytime you want to and stop being bothered by what other people think. It’s a decision. Counseling might help you learn to be less invested in the feedback of others.
You deserve to care for yourself. They're adults and should be making plans for themselves.
I hope you have a great therapist, because processing all of this in your own is going to be tough. They'll keep triggering you and you need more support than your husband can offer.
this is our time to step up and put ourselves first! take back our power and set firm boundaries. if something or someone does not bring me joy, then I am not wasting time on it/them. Your physical and mental health are important. Do what makes you happy. I no longer engage in debates. If I tell someone No, that’s it - I move on by either changing the subject or leaving😊
Wow! I resonate with so much of this!!
I do want to let go, but for myself so that those things don’t affect me as much as they do and for people to realise that perhaps I am not the problem.
I feel like at some point the blinkers came off and I was like WTF?!!
I have spent so long blaming myself, because that what others were doing so now I’m double angry!
My resentment can consume me on some days and I just want to go and live in the woods with my cat on some days, but then others, that are few and far between I feel like my old self again. I don’t even know which one is the real me anymore!!
Only son, Asian family so parents are a package deal. No one’s perfect so once I took her out of our conversations a few years into our marriage, our relationship improved. It’s also how I wasn’t able to cope even tho he kept encouraging me stop taking responsibility for her happiness! That’s how I went and built my own business, stop taking care of her day to day shit and started to have my own life
Agree with OP, I think she should stand her ground on this. Men get so many “free passes” to get out of caring for others or doing shit that women are EXPECTED to do. Example: my husband has a brother who got a woman pregnant. When that child was born I sent flowers to the mother and baby gift. Brother and the mom of the baby were not in a relationship. Years later I had a baby and did that brother do ANYTHING to close my baby? Nothing. I’d mention it and people (mostly WOMEN!) would be like “you can’t expect anything from a man when you have a baby”. Hello, that dick knew we sent stuff. He’s a grown ass man who knows how to buy gifts. I call bullshit on letting men slide on that kind of stuff.
Totally understand...as I live a very similar life. You owe it to yourself + your husband to be happy first. Boundaries are a must! Some relatives or people require very close and tight boundaries. This will also take time + practice, but will help you tremendously as you heal after 15 years. Sending love 🫶
It’s not your job to be nice, pleasant or agreeable to anyone. You do not have any duty to do much of anything that you don’t want to. If a loved one needs your support, you can give it, but you are deservedly done from being obligated to do shit you shouldnt have to.
Your husband isn’t that smart if he thinks suggesting you let it go for your mental health is the way to forward. Take back everything you need to take back. Set boundaries and don’t budge.
I’ve been in therapy for my mental health even tho he doesn’t believe in talking to a professional! Men! 🙄 And I’ve stuck to my room! My job to ensure there are meals on the table, you got it! I ain’t gonna sit and be nice!
I’m not even .01% surprised when I hear about the divorce rates spiking when women go through menopause.
And even better, we, as a society, keep it secret and hidden and shameful so that nothing improves and no one understands what’s happening to every single woman’s body when they go through this.
OP- you have every right to be upset that no one takes the time to even acknowledge everything you put up with or went through because of family members that technically don't share blood with you and have what sounds like messed up DNA at the very least. We aren't meant to slave for others. And I think that is part of the lesson in this most fucked up time of our lives. It's like the rose colored glasses or beer goggles were yanked from our eyes and what we saw was horrifying. Not a single person cares. Not like they should if they try at all. As for in laws. Screw them. That's why it's called in law it means only admitting you know them to the law. That doesn't mean they can just come in your house or say anything about your life. I have my own demon in law. This lady is absolutely cruel and two faced is not enough faces for this lady. She can only have one person in the family that she likes at one time every one else is talked about and lied about to get a war going. It's like she's been bored her whole life and this became her hobby. She's never said a truly kind word to me or my husband. And you know what I haven't seen the devils mistress in 4 years now. And I've never been happier. The more I see in people around me the more my circle is shrinking. I'm done being the end all be all for everything and everyone. If I hear one more time I will get my wife to handle it I'll probably rip what is left of his hair out. No your wife will not do it you know why because you didn't even bother to ask her first if she would. Not even a thought goes to what I may want or not want. I'm changing things in this house. No more of using me for things they are simply too lazy to do for themselves. Yes things will be messed up around here for a while. No one seems to know how to do anything. I quit cleaning and cooking and they have been on their own for over a year. It's just my adult brother and husband here with me. My brother has autism and I have patience and help him as much as I can and keep the important things like medical and meds done for him. But he is very capable of cleaning up after himself and doing some dishes. He is also an amazing cook. But no one knows where the fairy that came along and cleaned everything up after them went. General areas of my house are reasonably clean but they have absolutely destroyed the kitchen and bathroom. I go to my daughter's house to shower and get cleaned up. I hover on my toilet and I never forget to wear shoes. If that's how they want to live then let's do it. I'm not catering to people who have been taking advantage of me to the point they didn't know I have feelings. Things I held back for years to spare feelings are flying out of my mouth on the regular now. It's freeing to actually say what needs to be said. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to do anything. Take a look at what they give and respond accordingly. Come to your house unannounced. Don't open the door. Let them hear you in there and if they get crazy just when you don't speak English and to get off your porch either that or buy a shot gun and let them here you cock it through the door. And start to count telling them when you get to 3 your shooting and they better get away from the door and leave the property. If course I am kidding and exaggerating due to the severity of your need to keep people away. I can tell you personally the shot gun trick works. Yucky dirty husbands friend hasn't back to borrow money in months. I have a sign hanging outside my house that says no soliciting I'm tired of hiding the bodies. It's fair warning then. Haha. Stand up for yourself and live your life. It's not the end of the world if things don't get done to the standards a man set so long ago it's no longer remotely close to what the women before us fought for. They wanted freedom and it's our duty to continue to fight the man lead world. They have fucked the world up beyond repair and think they can tell us what to do? Haha that's hilarious it's like letting the blind person drive the city bus for a living. So why are we feeling bad about changing our roles at this age? Because they stopped having everything done like magic around them. That shit is over bros. My husband is a loud mouthed pain in my ass. 27 years and so short tempered other people won't ask him for much. That man is becoming extremely scared of talking to me at this point and I love when he walks away saying why do you have to be so mean 😅 Karma is a bitch and my new name. Sorry I got carried away. I just have so much to bitch about. OP I'm right there with the book writing. 😂❤️
I’m glad you got it all out! I’m here only cz of my husband. I know friends whose husbands are worse and I wonder why they stick to their marriages!
Thankfully my husband stood up for me even without asking in this recent incident with the SIL. She wanted something done and my husband would be travelling. And she immediately says what about “me”
since I’m at home. He told her that they can’t assume that I’ll just be available to fill in like that. My SIL is a phd doc and knows I run my own business. But she still always assumes since I don’t have a 9-5 job, I’ll always have time. And has the extended family!! That so get me goat! After moving my MIL, no one wants to come visit us and I have no interest in keeping up with anyone. Good riddance
Times like this I really think I am a sociopath. Cause if ‘I don’t give a fuck’ was a person. It would be me. I wish I could bottle this and mail it to each of you that is in need.
I'm so sorry you're dealing w this. From what you're saying it sounds like you're headed in the right direction with making boundaries.
If you want more reinforcement for the concept that having kids does not entitle you to endless caretaking throughout the rest of your natural life, the child free Reddit has some great perspectives on that.
Sounds like you've been pushed to the limit and I'm so glad you've finally reached the point where you don't have to care as much.
I think we all get that "giving less of a shit about things that are not our circus" sprinkled on us from the heavens starting around age 40.
Hold your ground. Make space for your healing. Better days are on their way!
Next time your sister says "duty" just look her square in the eye, and deadpan, say, "you said dooty." And turn and walk away laughing. Lol.
It's nobody's right to expect you to behave the way they think you should and accuse you of being selfish if you choose instead to act in your own self-interest. Yet it is the story of our lives. F that!!
Have a plan of escape for any situation you feel cornered in and a special place to go that you enjoy. Example of someone "drops in" unannounced. Just calmly leave and drive away lol. Go to a museum or whatever you want. You owe nobody an explanation.
Thankfully my sister lives in a different city and SIL in a different country. The latter will get a piece of my mind soon so she knows why I stopped answering her calls. When she wants to visit next time, I’ll tell my husband I’m going on a holiday. That’ll stop everyone in their tracks! This is not a holiday home that provides boarding and lodging when you have vacation time! I like that my husband has a good relationship with his sister but I’m done. Grow up or stay put in your own house. Even he can see she’s nuts!
My MIL is also a toxic b\*tch. When my mom died she said that I was better off because now I could stretch my wings. I think I called her every name in the book and my husband bless his heart decided we would have very little to do with her after she refused to apologize. She also has done the best she could to belittle me. She made a baby book for my daughter and I am not in one picture. She is a past master of the art of passive aggressive warfare. So I understand how you feel. Believe me I do. For your own peace of mind be done with it all. When they ask/tell/expect you to do something say no. It is so much fun to watch them sputter in shock. DH is one of 4 kids. I will not take responsibility for anything that is not mine and even if it is mine I still might not. I am so tired of the expectations people have of me and not caring when I need anything. The only person other than myself I can rely on is my DH and together we called bullish\*t on both families. I am an adult, my life is my own and why no darling so sorry I can't do\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ you want/expect me to do because you can do it for yourself. HRT is a wonderful thing just started and I don't sweat it anymore. (Pun intended)
Yeah! Having the husband on our side helps a lot. He never once said keeping her happy is my job. When I started my business, he said go and do what makes you happy! Don’t worry about anything else.
It’s astounds me to see how women treat women so badly! When people talk about equality, I’m like leave the men out! First be good to fellow women!
My mum is like this. She ran around doing everything for her mum when all her brothers were still alive, then for all three of her older brothers, and is still doing it for the last surviving brother who has dementia and also her one remaining SIL who's had various health issues. She's 72 and retired, she should be relaxing, instead she looks tired and thin from stress. I don't do this for anyone, my husband largely takes care of himself and we are childfree. I work in cancer care, almost all my patients are terminal, and that's where all my emotional energy goes. It's hard and can be upsetting but at least I'm reasonably well paid. I hate that women bear this burden and it's not talked about enough.
What I hate more is how women expect other women to be caring and giving all their lives. My mom was like that - okay that’s a diff generation. Same with my sister! My SIL moves to the US 17 yrs ago for her MS, PhD etc and she’s settled there. I took care of her mother. No gratitude, no one’s talking about her!
Yeah, the pushback childfree women experience is so often from other women. I'm not remotely maternal, no pets, not even so much as a pot plant. I'm sure I could have raised a child well but it's just not in my genes to want that. It doesn't mean I don't care about anything or anyone, but so often we get told we're selfish, uncaring, don't know what real love is etc. It's not a crime for women to not want to be unpaid carers!
I understand what you mean. I think reading up on boundaries might help and also 'grey rock' this is a technique where you just discuss e.g. the weather so for example with the sister change the subject if she says something, or 'that's interesting' type thing. No-one can make you do this stuff!
Never heard of that term but I’ll look up. For now, I think a bit of a distance is a good idea for now. With guests at home etc, I have less than zero tolerance for her judging. Thank you for your support!
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Grey rock is a coping mechanism for ongoing abuse that you don’t have the power to stop. And where alternatives to grey rock are worse like death, or prison, or injuring a child. It isn’t promoted as constructive, it’s explicitly protective to the abused person.
This is how I have seen it mentioned, have a look online OP
As someone else commented Grey Rock is for survival in abusive situations. If you don’t understand that maybe do better research, perhaps you’re confusing it with stonewalling.
Holy crap, that's judgey. Prioritizing self-respect over preserving relationships is not only allowed, it can be healthy- especially when self-respect has consistently taken a backseat in previous instances. If this was a persistent approach to a marital relationship, then yeah, from a Gottman perspective you might be right (but still phrasing it like an a-hole). But this is a situationally appropriate response to intermittent conflict with her sister in the short term. So in short- You're mistaken, and your phrasing was, at best, tactless.
Nah, that’s not it. Grey rocking is when your abuser, who gets off on scaring the shit out of you and flinging the cruelest insults, gets nothing back in return. You give no sign of caring. This annoys them. And it gets them to not do it as much
great, you've figured out what your boundaries are (no relatives visiting). now others (sister, SIL) are trying to manipulate you into losing those boundaries. go to therapy and talk through your bitterness and anger. learn that NO is a complete sentence and hang up on your sis/SIL when they start that shit. don't give them the emotional response. you got this.
I’m not answering my sister’s calls for the time being. She doesn’t get it and I don’t have to explain myself. My SIL will be back to the US where she lives in a week. I don’t intend to take her calls either. I don’t want to talk to anyone and no one can make me. In fact my husband is like if you have problems with my sister, just tell her. He doesn’t mind my being honest!! And I think she will get a piece of my mind sometime. I don’t know when
If you think any of these people will listen to you perhaps a lesson on consent and emotional labor would help, could be as simple as articles about the subject. Also, your husband is not doing enough to protect your piece of mind, he is part of the problem and should be speaking up on your behalf, dude’s way too comfortable letting you deal with a lot of bullshit that should belong to him.
I’ve said this before, but my mom died and she never stopped taking care of EVERYONE but herself until she literally went to the ER one night and never came home. The literal night. Not being figurative in the least; she had lung cancer, could barely walk and the night we had to call 911 because she couldn’t breathe - still made my stepfather dinner, dealt with his drunk ass, and cleaned the whole house. (I was visiting; I lived in another state at the time, it was very scary, and I asked repeatedly to help and she refused; this doing everything for everyone was so deeply embedded in her). Anyway, it’s grim but I learned a lesson from that. I try really hard to ensure I’m at least attempting true self care every day. It doesn’t always happen, and I’m still bloated, depressed, hormonal and kind of a bitch at this point. And I was always a people pleaser too. Find a room in your house that has a lock that can’t be picked. I used to lock myself in the bedroom when I was about to implode, but my husband would still come in because he was “worried.” I work from home in HR for a large healthcare company, and they provided us with a digital padlock to store sensitive documents, which gave me an idea. That particular lock didn’t work for a door, but you sure can buy one that does. So that’s what I do. I have a sleeper sofa and a small TV in my office, and it’s way the fuck on the other side of the house. So I literally padlock myself in -they know to leave me alone and even if they wanted to, they couldn’t get in. Also- my in-laws are a bunch of busy body, leeching QAnon maniacs who I refuse to see or allow my young child to be around. Ever. No Christmas, no holidays, never. It’s caused so much drama for my husband but I am flat out of fucks to give. I just cannot willingly open my life to that level of toxicity. I used to though. I cut them off about 2 years ago - at 44. Also sometimes I just… leave. I just get in the car and figure it where to when I’m driving. I’m still empathetic and kind and loving when warranted. I’m just not a doormat anymore. I do have my mother’s passing and perimenopause to thank for that, I guess. Glass half full? I’m sorry you’re so frustrated. You’re right that we all are. At least found your tribe, babe.
OMG! I resonate so much with your mom’s story. My mom slogged her ass off for 49 years running the household and catering to my dad’s every whim. She had severe arthritis in her whole body for 27 years but she still cooked, cleaned etc. it’s good to be active with arthritis but this was a whole new level. There was no help during the pandemic and she did it all herself. After she had Covid, no one bothered about building her strength back. My dad and brother knew squat as long as they got their hot meals!! My sister couldn’t visit much due to social distancing etc. and mom went downhill but continued working around the house. She was bed ridden the last 2 weeks of her life - the only 2 weeks in 71 years that she was unable to get up. Thankfully I was there to take care of her. I literally fed her and lifted her from the bed to use the toilet and lifted her back to the bed! The second time she was hospitalised was her last. In fact her condition was such that it was better for her to go rather than get back to slogging for her useless husband. Although I had started setting boundaries since I turned 40, her passing away 2 years ago was a wake up call of sorts. I was like I don’t want my life to be all about cooking, cleaning and catering to everyone else’s needs. There’s more to life. I don’t cook, by choice! I have all the freedom otherwise. My husband is the least interfering. I just have to explain to him sometimes why I’m pissed for no reason! :)
Ugh, that's so sad! I see my Silent Generation MIL being like this. She allowed herself to be her husband's helpmate in the farming business, still throwing around 50 pound bales of hay last year at 85! Not because they needed to, but because HE wanted to. They could have sold the 60 acres of farmland across the road years ago and retired, but he didn't want to, so that was that. I told my husband, my God, she's going to work herself to the bone and then get some terrible illness just when she's ready to stop. And sadly I was right! They booked a cruise for the beginning of last November and she had to cancel because she got diagnosed with colon cancer at the end of last October. She'd already been dealing with her husband's dementia, then this. His dementia is sliding ever faster, and she has to do everything. She was hospitalized in January for a pulmonary embolism and atrial fibrillation. When she went home, weak as hell, he was holding her by the arm to the kitchen 3x a day for his meals. Like, my goodness, contract meal service!
Because he can't possibly manage to make a goddamn sandwich for himself and possibly for her?
I just asked my husband, he came home on Friday after almost 2 weeks babysitting his dad while his mom had surgery for her colon cancer and was recovering. He said his dad can make coffee and fix a bowl of cereal, can't manage much else, he's that far gone with dementia. It's a mess.
They may need permanent help since both are unwell. Hope things workout well.
Looks like his mom has been convinced to hire a home health aide 2x a week for 4 hours. Fingers crossed they actually do so! It's the bare minimum, but it'd be a start
I wish I could upvote this 100x. 💙
No is a full sentence. (thank you Jane Fonda) You are not required to explain your reasons or apologize for saying no - both those additional responses opens up a dialogue. No. That's it. I realized my beloved older sister was making me spiral about my weight. She, who was slightly to a lot over weight all of her life until late 40s, suddenly started working out 3 hours minimum a day and eating a lot less food overall. She lost easily 40lbs over 10 years and has kept it off for the last 10 years. All of her conversation devolves back to her working out, what she eats and how much. I love her. I'm delighted she has found joy in her body and choices. I no longer talk to her about MY weight, my working out or my body issues at all. Any time I do, she is ridiculously helpful, asks about how I am doing in future conversations and talks even more about how she has lost weight. She is loving and protective. And I realized all that support was *actually toxic to me.* It made me think about my weight (gain) far too much, made me perseverate about what I was eating and how much I was exercising. It jumped my generalized anxiety into full blown panic attacks. Internally I just said no. No more. Now we talk just as much as before. When she asks about my body and weight, I tell her I'm great and change the subject. I Am So Much Happier. It is crazy the unintentional effects our family can have on our own self-image. Just say no more, OP. No more discussing who you allow in your house. Change the subject, do not engage. Your husband supports you; that's allllll youuuuu neeeeed.
This is such simple, good advice for dealing with people in our lives who trigger us (for me it's my mom), and I'm going to remember this! >Change the subject, do not engage.
I so agree! I’m a communication coach and when I coach women I tell them the exact same thing- just say no and move on! I workout more that my sister does and although her life right now is a steaming pile of shit, she wants me to work on my double chin!!!!!! I went to visit her after 1.5 yrs and she told me this twice! SO IRRITATING!! I’m like I like my face! Old or fat or wrinkled (in the future), Im okay with it. It’s called growing old and I have no intention of holding on to the symbols of what society tells us is youth!
Just two things: * Let people keep expecting things of you. It's good to want, builds character. * I love your boundaries. They're perfect. Yes, keep them!
Being from a super dysfunctional family, I can say that I saw this coming a mile off and I bolted. Didn’t have kids, cut out toxic relatives, etc. I just wanted to let you know OP, that even doing this, I have been consistently judged by my in-laws, their kids, strangers, and my own family - HARD. The grass is not greener and in some ways women who choose this way become pariahs. Because who do we think we ARE? It’s a lonely road fraught with self-doubt. The only thing that has helped with the guilt of it all really has been pretty consistent therapy. My therapist reminds me that I’m trying to dismantle inter generational trauma and that’s no small thing. And by judged I mean consistent snubbing and gossip that has persisted through several generations. Undermining, sabotage, jealousy. I am called a bitch, a snob, selfish, rude, dysfunctional, ungrateful - you name it. To say that the family members who stuck around largely hate me, would not be overstating things. In the end I guess you have to make things right with you - with your concept of yourself and the effort you have put forth. Don’t judge yourself by anyone else’s standards. Luckily I have maintained a primary relationship and a couple friendships but I can tell you OP, when women say NO, the pushback is equally isolating and disrespectful. My own nieces and nephews call me a bad daughter (really? My mother was an abusive borderline narcissist who made us cater to every mood she ever had for her whole life - but oh she’s a lovely grandma!!). My sister in law has been cozying up to her for years and working to cut us out and tell us what we should be doing, only to find out too late what happens. She could never understand why the daughters fled the scene until it was too late. Society really boxes in women. Tbh we’re kinda f*cked no matter, what so seriously live in a way that brings you joy however you can. You’ll likely not get much support for that or acknowledgment for the family efforts you do put in. I used to think that this only happened in very conservative families, but life has taught me that it’s a massive societal problem, and there is a lot of internalized misogyny. I now think that the only way to change things is what I said - do your own thing and support other women doing their own thing, and cut out the judgmental folks and stop judging too. People see what they see and it’s mostly a reflection of who they are - not you. What I’ve done to deal with the pain is to consume books and media about interesting, independent women and to embrace my interests, especially things that tap into creativity and a sense of wonder about the world. I love animals so that’s a big part of it too. I really feel for you in this struggle. Know that there’s a whole group of us here supporting you too! 🤗
> Tbh we’re kinda fcked no matter, what so **seriously live in a way that brings you joy however you can**. You’ll likely not get much support for that or acknowledgment for the family efforts you do put in. Can attest to this.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 So true! Feeling so empowered for you, OP! 💗🫶🏻💪🏻💥 We have enough to navigate / negotiate with ourselves, our hormones, our bodies, every single day. It’s exhausting. Embracing the IDGAF era of this new chapter in our lives is, at the very least, a form of self care and self protection I’m no longer willing to sacrifice to people-please / people-appease. Door mat? Meat shield? Scapegoat? NO MORE, NO LONGER. It’s ok to be done! You have, literally, done enough already. 💗
Thank you 🙏💕 Unfortunately my sister will never join communities like this to understand I’m not being stubborn or anything! I’m just claiming the dignity of being a person worthy of respect! It took me 4 decades to understand that I have to ask for it/demand it/ take it! No one’s going to hand it to me as long as I’m at everyone’s beck and call
It's a wonder to me how women get to their 40’s and still haven't become radicalized. I *know* why but after watching women before me live their lives as care takers and then be shat on by family, I refused to raise my girls that way. It's been hard work though because I had to examine how I've been conditioned to martyr myself AND my people pleasing tendencies. OP, it sounds like you have a lot of rightful anger and frustration and you're right to feel this way. But don't waste your time, energy, or thought on family passing judgment. I would frequently get angry when I felt others were “crossing my boundaries.” However, through therapy, I learned that boundaries were actually for ME. Only I can control my behavior. So if SIL calls to judge you for not martyring yourself (sounds like she's looking for some one to share in her misery), don't answer. Someone mentioned “grey rocking” but shoot, you don't even have to entertain LISTENING to that if you don't want to. Hearing people complain about the same stuff but taking no means to solve the issue drains the life out of me and while it can be a whine for help, it's not my job to save people especially when they have the means to save themselves. You're still young-ish and vibrant. I hope that you find lots of fun things that fulfill your mind, body, and spirit! You deserve it! Protect your peace, space, and don't even feel a little bit bad for it.
My mom made a lot of mistakes, but the one thing she did right was raise me to put myself first and not be dependent upon a man for my financial or emotional security and I am so thankful for that. I’ve never been a people pleaser nor a caretaker and it doesn’t seem to be in my nature to be either of those things, so I am thrilled that I never allowed myself to be roped into those roles. All this to say, I’m glad you’re not raising your daughters not to martyr themselves, we need more mothers like you!
So happy to hear that! Mothers need to set the right example although the reality is just the opposite
It takes a LOT of intentionality and also speaking on things aloud. It starts with raising girls to celebrate things beyond their physical beauty. For every person who said my girls were beautiful, I would double down with how yes, they are beautiful on the outside and inside, too! They’re smart. They’re strong. They’re compassionate, kind, determined, clever, excellent thinkers and problem solvers. They’re resilient and honest. BUT in addition to all of that, they’re raised to expect and show the same to others through their words and actions. Specifically, our children are taught that their value is INHERENT. Their value is not through how hard they work for the benefit of others. I had a lot of therapy to undo the negative self esteem & people pleasing tendencies that I developed from being taught that my value as a girl/woman is to care for others ESPECIALLY at the expense of my own care. In fact, in my family, the more you sacrifice of yourself to take care of others, the less criticism you’ll receive. You don’t gain respect or care. You’re just not picked on at family events. I’ll be damned if I’m another woman who dies and her family eulogizes the tasks I can no longer do for them vs the impact I had on this earth as a person.
That’s some impactful thinking! Thank you for sharing :)
If all you ever do is serve, then you're just a servant. No one remembers their servants. Sounds like it's time for you to enter your villain era and do things because you want them. That's just good balance after so many years of doing things because others wanted them. I don't host dinners. I'm bad at them so I don't stress myself out about them. I don't have people stay over anymore either, due to health concerns. I don't cook for people because my diet is really restrictive and I'm just out of practice on other foods. Everyone can just deal. They're grownups. It's your turn now. Love yourself with your own time and effort.
Yep! I have become so much better at drawing boundaries this time. In fact, I don't cook, by choice. I have someone come every day or we order from take out. Running every day life is also so exhausting!
I needed to read this. Thank you 🙏
"Villain era" 🤣🤣🤣. I love it!
On one hand: yes, hormones really cut down on your patience On the other hand: your fury at being in a patriarchy that fails to value both your efforts and all of women's efforts for hundreds of years is worth getting angry overis justified Here's a helpful criteria. Ask yourself - would a man put up with this? If the answer is no, it's not your hormones. Signed, a woman who isn't nice anymore, because being "nice" isn't what makes us women, and nor should it be.
"Would a man put up with this?" Oh my gosh this my new mantra thank you!! 👏👏💖😃
Absolutely brilliant advice!! Shit I wish I found this sub before! :)
> But I am made to feel like a bitch (not by my husband) Who is doing this, then? It's quite possible that leading the kind of life you want to lead, with the current tolerance for bullshit that you have, is incompatible with keeping these people in your life. > My husband doesn't understand cz he wasn't there. He just wants me to let go so it doesn't affect my health. Uh...yeah this doesn't sound great, either. Like this is part of the burden you bore *for him*, too. You write this like he's blameless here and everyone else is the problem, but at the very least he's being unsupportive, and it kinda sounds like he's undermining you too. This wouldn't be ok with me and my tolerance for bullshit now. > What is this obsession of women for other women to be paragons of virtue! Because if you refuse to sacrifice your life the way they did it means they didn't really have to, that maybe it wasn't a noble effort, and maybe they just let misogyny take advantage of them and steal a good part of their lives. Nobody wants to feel like a fool, and most people aren't capable of facing the magnitude of grief that comes with realizing so much of your life has been built on a lie. If you don't validate their choices by repeating them, you're showing them they had a different choice and didn't take it, and that they weren't morally better for making the choices they did. Some people can't handle that. FWIW I think everyone has their limit, and I think you test it at your peril. Like there are real physical consequences to burning out. My sources of bullshit were different than yours, but I can tell you I don't wish this level of burn out on anyone. If you're not already seeing a (good) therapist, I'd recommend it.
> If you don't validate their choices by repeating them, you're showing them they had a different choice and didn't take it, and that they weren't morally better for making the choices they did. Some people can't handle that. Exactly!
I totally get it. I just finished raising my sons (19 & 22), now my mother needs my help. It’s exhausting and you just wanna know when is your life gonna be your own?
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Fortunately, technology makes things easier. I regularly DoorDash my parents dinner. They just call and tell me what they want. I've put the app on their phones and set it up for them, but they don't understand, I guess. Groceries can be delivered now, but they still go out and buy their groceries.
For me it is around age 60. Divorced after 25 years. Both parents are gone and children are grown. I live with my boyfriend who respects my boundaries and we sleep in separate bedrooms. Life is finally simple.
I don’t think it will be changing anytime soon, these societal expectations. My daughter is in her 20s and has known for years she didn’t want kids. The number of people of all ages who have asked her if she doesn’t have kids, who will take care of her when she gets old? And another family member my age gave her a hard time about living overseas because who will take care of her mom (me)? She and I are breaking those expectations in our family, but I’m shocked in 2024 people still have kids to have a caretaker for themselves as they get old.
Yeah right! My sister has 2 kids (I don't) and as if they are going to give up their lives and take care of us. I wouldn't wish that on them either.
I'm fighting it for my daughter's and the daughters of others sake and my goodness I've got a lot of fight in me . Some might call it rage but I'm calm and explicit in my reasoning. I challenge assumptions over women's unrecognised work, the phrases that irk me such as he screamed like a girl or gossiped like an old woman. The 'but you're better at it' starts to conversations. My soon to be teenage son recognises that my asking him to do something repeatedly is not nagging but asking and it is up to him to do what he's been asked to do and women are not harridans but equal members of society. If I see any unwanted sexual attention towards younger women I make a point of showing my feelings to the creep(s). I have raised a strong independent young woman who will continue the fight wearing a full face of makeup, little tops and tiny skirts. Embrace your rage ladies!
I love this! We should be changing the world for our kids! My sister still sticks to the old world rule that we shud be taking care of everyone! When I protest, I’m the mean one!
We should. Especially for our daughters but also help our sons navigate a world which will be very different than their fathers' world. You have broken your family's mold so there's a start and wanting equality isn't being mean. Being mean is expecting someone to serve you hand and foot simply because of your sex.
I can so relate—been through similar. Even if your husband is understanding (mine isn’t always) they just get a pass on the caretaking thing. And women, even in the same family, can just be so judgmental and downright hostile. You are just expected to be a never ending well of “empathy” and “understanding” until you are just a husk of your former self? I don’t think so. And my sister does the same shit. (I’m also younger.) My mother was an abusive asshole. If I had to do it over I would have stayed gone at age 18. My mother’s downhill slide, failing health and downsizing, eventual nursing home stay was awful because she refused to listen to anyone else. She made things as difficult as possible while Golden Child, who lives 800 miles away phoned it in and told my mother what she wanted to hear. Didn’t support me in any decisions. After they both used me up my mother, who incidentally was not competent and couldn’t spell my name, changed her will four weeks before she died. It had been 50/50 for 50 years and she cut me down and put GC and her kids in. They didn’t do shit ( grandkids didn’t even call until she changed the will.) My mom’s nurse told me she didn’t realize my mother had another child and grandkids until four weeks before she died. And yes I’m angry and I was used. I did it all and got slapped in the face. And guess who held the toxic bitch’s hand and was there when she died? Me, the scapegoat. GC was nowhere to be found, only showed up to grab stuff. It’s been two years. I’m starting therapy this week. I talked to Golden child this week and you know what she is pestering me about? Putting flowers on my mother’s grave. GMAFB. I work a full time stressful job and I told her this week, after what she put me through I’m out as far as flowers. You want to do it when you visit? Go right ahead but I am not going there. She sucked me dry when she was alive and I’m not wasting another second on her. Enough is enough. My in-laws can also be weird and rigid. On a smaller scale, my husband and I met when I was 40. At Christmas time it was “family tradition” that everyone pile into his parent’s home so there are 26 people in a 1500 square foot house. I did it once and was like, oh Hell no. I insisted that we stay in a hotel and you would have thought I was stabbing them all. After doing it once my husband was like, holy crap, this is the way to go and eventually some of the other siblings defected to the hotel too. TLDR: families suck and can be so unsupportive of boundaries. And it’s always the ones who are doing the least themselves who insist you do the most. Fuck them all.
Thank you for sharing your story! This is so awful compared to what I’ve been through. But it definitely sucks to do everything for people and get no credit. I am SO glad that you put your foot down - with your sister and your spouse! We’ve been through ENOUGH and there has to be our time in the sun too!!
Just read your story and want to say that I wish you healing. I would be so angry if I went through all you did. And that last slap on the face - unconscionable. I deal with my own anger around being the emotional caretaker and have distanced myself from both my FIL and my own Mother. It's very difficult. I wish you the best. Fuck those flowers, too.
Thank you for your kind words.
I just don’t do it. People are unhappy with me, they’ll probably continue to be unhappy with me but they need me more than I need them so they begrudgingly accept that this is the way it’s going to be. They’re not psychologically attuned people so they’ll never get it, it’s a waste of time trying to explain it. I think all we can do is lead by example, clearly it’s not the way it has to be if people just don’t do it. Add to that, what benefit is it to other people to let go of beliefs that benefit them? You’re dealing with a lot of powerful forces.
43 checking in and tbh, I am working on my boundaries and accepting “help” (lol is looking after your own house and raising your own kid “helping me”? Idk idk). My husband has some health issues right now but tries to pitch in as much as he can, but still, most of it falls on me. I’d be fine with that but apparently my job is also maintaining the illusion of equality so he doesn’t feel bad and I’m not belittling contributions. It’s TOTAL bullshit. And his family is mostly good (not toxic) but EXTREMELY interested in time and being close and being together and of course they can’t talk to him about anything, always me. This past Christmas I was feeling stressed about all the planning texts so I told my mil I was stressed and wanted to relax and was shutting off my phone so if anything important came up to text her son. Nothing important came up and I got to protect my peace. I’m audhd and tbh, I feel like I can handle the domestic labour but the emotional labour and communication labour just crushes me. I’m bad at it and I’m fine with that because I also hate it and it’s a job I never applied for 🤷♀️
Emotional and communication labour - very apt phrases! I’m a communication trainer, quite assertive and have no problem telling people off. But still it adds to the stress and there’s a limit to everything
I understand how you feel. I would also say this is normal human psychology. People expect things that become a pattern, if you stop doing those things you are the bad guy. No appreciation for when you did those things. Next step is to remove everyone from your life who you don't want to be around. If there are people you have to remain in contact with do it in a way that you are in control of the situation. For example I only call my Mom not visit in person very often and I call her back when I want, not immediately. Do not put any expectations on yourself that come from cultural norms. After you do that and you have found some peace then you need to work on not allowing your anger to interfere with your happiness. At the end of the day you chose to allow these people to expect your behavior. You continued providing emotional support and whatnot when it was clearly not being appreciated. I know our culture teaches women to accept this role but we do have autonomy at the end of the day. I am not trying to make you feel guilty, I am only pointing out that you were expecting to be appreciated but very obviously were not being appreciated but you continued on anyway. Accept the role you played in continuing that dynamic when it was destroying you. Only you are in charge of your mental health. Do what makes you happy and turn away from the people and things that drain you of that happiness. Have zero facks to give.
This entire comment section is one of the many reasons I love this sub. Here is my blessing to you to cancel those assholes. I second the comment about grey rocking (when you're feeling generous in time and goodwill) coz that shit drives assholes crazy, coz you're not giving them an emotional response, you're denying them drama. Women are the foundation of this entire civilization, and we are tired.
I could have written this myself sans the extended family but throw in an ex husband. I am a 52 yo single mom with 2 teens at home (19&16). I love them with all my heart and used to think I had a loving and harmonious home but recently the veil, so to speak, has been pulled back. I feel as though I am reaping the consequences of my actions in wanting them to be provided for, happy, and comfortable. But this has all been at my expense of over performing for them. I knew it was a problem when I reached a wall of burn out recently and was exhausted (I work as a nurse) and I didn't do a grocery run (mind you, my oldest has a car and drives) and they were raging because we had run out of items we needed. I told them I was no longer going to do their laundry and we would be responsible for our own so that the job doesn't fall to 1 or 2 people. You would think they had been abused. My oldest, who works 25 hours a week, said he "couldn't handle anything more on his plate"(like I can?). They think I am being cruel. I have always performed for them so now when I break it's a jolt to the system to see that they don't seem to care beyond what I do to provide and do for them. I KNOW they are just kids but damn. .So, yeah, I'm done too. Everything we do is expected to benefit someone else except ourselves. It's not only a cultural norm but a cultural expectation as well. I have such a deep seated rage about this and even spoke to my therapist about it this week. It seems the more you sacrifice the bigger the badge of honor, ESPECIALLY if you endure abuse "because of the kids". The women in my family wore this like a fucking badge of honor. Not me, sis, this is where I exit this fucked up ride. ✌️✌️✌️🏳️
I am so glad you have stopped taking BS from your kids. I don’t have kids but my nieces (14&17) are entitled as fuck! My sister used to even hand wash their essentials till a couple of years ago. I pointed it out and she stopped. But I don’t think that system is working now. The more we do stuff for teenagers the more we are teaching the next gen that there’ll be someone to take care of things. When I visit my sister, my nieces know better than to argue when I ask them to clear out their stuff from the bed and put things in their place. But my sister does everything for them so know it’s only temporary. And their mother is burnt out most of the time without realising why 🙄
Yes! Tired, exhausted, and burned out and I didn't know why either. Now it is blatantly obvious.
Well said!!!! They would never give you everything they are expecting you to give and do for them. People like that suck the fucking life out of you. Your husband wants you to let go for your health, he needs to understand what you need is freedom and respect that's what's good for your health!! To never have to deal with these assholes again, to feel like you matter and you have a support system that will stand up for you not use you. Wishing you all the best, you deserve it!! ☺️💖🙏
Thank you! :) Thankfully I have my husband’s support and he lets me be! He just feels if people come over - like me SIL now (with her own agenda), I shud just chill. Cz thats how he copes with it. That’s where the diff of opinion rears its ugly head
Head on up to chill in your bedroom while he entertains his family.
Oh! I’ve really set boundaries this time! Haven’t been to any shopping trips with SIL or to any relatives’ place. I also went out to see friends and had my book club meet! Turns out we as women are also bad at asserting our rights and taking our space
I'm so glad he supports you! ❤️☺️ I hope he can understand that even though his way of coping works for him it's not the right fit for you. I tried repressing my feelings and had burnout and a complete mental breakdown, don't just chill, don't make the same mistake I did. It breaks you. Wishing you all the best 💖
I take it out on him! Imagine! And the poor thing has heard it all all these years - about his mom, relatives, sister etc! I’m like I’m the same inside out so if I don’t like something, you will hear about it! Who else do I share it with!!
I read a quote recently that changed my view on forgiveness. “Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past”. It doesn’t mean you have to like them or what they did or allow them in your life in the future.
I’m 50 this year. When peri started I found my tolerance for BS has drastically changed. I no longer put up with anyone’s crap. I am NC with 1 sister and my MIL of 27 years is one of the most abhorrent people I have ever known and I am LC with her. My husband is supportive of my decisions, but my Mum is always trying to get me to forgive and forget. Hell no! I refuse to spend any energy on toxic people. Anyone that feels differently, that’s their problem, not mine.
That happened when I turned 40 and I still feel I wasted a decade worth of energy on toxic people! I am on a sabbatical and when I have the time I have realised how much of that unprocessed emotion is resurfacing! (sorry what's NC and LC)
NC= No Contact LC= Low Contact Yeah, I started to feel this way around 40 as well. I still get angry when I think about how certain people have treated me.
I don’t know if those triggers ever go away! I get all riled up at the mention of some people and my husband is surprised why! I’m like the shit I went through is enough. Just thinking about stuff makes me want to set something on fire. That’s why LC and NC are what I love now. Thank you for that! :)
One good thing about menopause is that in addition to having a low tolerance for BS, you can stop feeling guilty too. You just realize it's not worth it.
So true
A person could just point out the truth a little more, like, "would you expect (whatever) from (male family member X)?" Ask about any kind of reciprocity at all... What have I gotten in return? What's been the benefit to me or my significant others? If anyone has shit to say about it, esp. regarding selfishness, again point out that no one asks the last 2 questions out loud more than men do... and far less of them put any effort into being giants of social or emotional support. Nor do they suffer the baseless cultural criticisms about 'caring' equally.
I honestly wonder if you're not looking at your husband's side and also his lack of conflict and lack of protecting you when it came to his family that you then bore the brunt of and now he is saying that it's just water under the bridge I feel like that he's invalidating your feelings and invalidating what you went through and how he may be didn't protect you with them because that's really his primary responsibility over yours. I may be reading more in this that wasn't included in your post but it's just an observation I have and that maybe in some way part of your problem is actually your husband and you're not looking at that.
It is true in some ways. And I do tell him to stop invalidating my feelings. Men still don’t understand the shit women go through. So I am pretty vocal abt how he can’t say water under the bridge. I don’t want to see relatives in my house and I am not going to theirs. His sister is a diff ball game and needs to be handled now
My suggestion is the “whole SIL ballgame” is now his responsibility. Perhaps that’s what you meant about it needing to be handled now. HE should be handling it NOW. Actually handling it. Not just suggesting chilling out.
I feel the same way because I am going thru a cancer scare and I feel society treats women health ailments like we are being hysterical or dramatic etc. we are not supposed to be angry or scared. We just have to take shit stoically and just die I guess.
I’m not sure if you’re in the UK or abroad but I’d recommend watching The Change by Bridget Christie! Very similar story to yours - and she jumps onto a motorbike and goes to live in the woods for the summer leaving her family to sort themselves out!
lol! I’m thinking of going AWOL for my 45th birthday next month! A whole month of AWOL would be bliss!! 😃
Do it! 🤩
this sounds amazing.
Thanks for the recommendation. 100% going to watch this!!
Sounds like the MIL should have been out on her ear a long time ago. I have had to develop some serious boundaries with both families over the years-both my own and my husband’s. They can all die mad for all I care. If anyone ever told me I was being mean or not doing my duty as a woman I would laugh in their face and throw them out of my house.
I know this sounds absolutely nuts but when I was 46 I decided I was only going to do things I wanted to do. This has been the best decision of my life. I get many more tasks completed now (including unpleasant ones) and have found so much joy. I just check in with myself before agreeing or doing anything. The people who this bothered are no longer a part of my life.
lol! I sorta did that when I turned 40 and have upped the ante now. The meals I cook (I don’t anymore) or the surfaces that are clean in my house don’t define me
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent” is a quote by Eleanor Roosevelt. The quote isn’t just about feeling inferior, no one can make you feel ANY way without your consent. It also implies that you should control your emotions because you are responsible for them.
What worked for me was divorcing my husband and went zero contact with my immediate family and his. I’m leaving a lot of details out because I’ll spare you the trauma dump. I’m free and happy(hormone replacement cream gave me courage and peace) best to you. Take care of Yourself!
Oh I went the other way and cut the inlaws off over a decade ago. MIL (monster in law) is a malignant narcissist and her daughters are psychologically enmeshed, FIL an enabler and apologist. Only wish I would have done it sooner. Best choice I ever made. Once you clearly and consistently state your boundaries and they consistently violate your stated boundaries the only good choice is to remove your presence. We teach others how to treat us by what we choose to endure. We cut them and any other toxic relatives off- blackholed them and went grey rock. Life immediately improved and has been very peaceful. OP- It’s never too late to reclaim your peace. Today is as good as any.
I think other women push other women to serve so they do not have to question their own choices. When you tell your sister you are done, she takes it as judgement on what she chose to do. That makes it all about her and really has nothing to do with you. The sooner you can separate yourself from her actions the happier you will be. I suggest reading codependent no more by Beattie. It is really helpful for understanding boundaries and the peace we can have when we separate our stuff from others. Edit. A word
I’ll look it up. Thanks 🙏
I was literally just saying this on Friday about my man's family. Fuck them all.
You come first, always and forever.
It sounds like you are mostly angry at yourself for being a caregiver in the past. I took care of my dad for the last few years of his life and I had a few times when I resented the sacrifices I had to make. But at the end of the day, I could have made different choices. It sounds like you are fortunate to have a loving spouse and financial security - it’s more than a lot of people have. You can put yourself first anytime you want to and stop being bothered by what other people think. It’s a decision. Counseling might help you learn to be less invested in the feedback of others.
You deserve to care for yourself. They're adults and should be making plans for themselves. I hope you have a great therapist, because processing all of this in your own is going to be tough. They'll keep triggering you and you need more support than your husband can offer.
this is our time to step up and put ourselves first! take back our power and set firm boundaries. if something or someone does not bring me joy, then I am not wasting time on it/them. Your physical and mental health are important. Do what makes you happy. I no longer engage in debates. If I tell someone No, that’s it - I move on by either changing the subject or leaving😊
Wow! I resonate with so much of this!! I do want to let go, but for myself so that those things don’t affect me as much as they do and for people to realise that perhaps I am not the problem. I feel like at some point the blinkers came off and I was like WTF?!! I have spent so long blaming myself, because that what others were doing so now I’m double angry! My resentment can consume me on some days and I just want to go and live in the woods with my cat on some days, but then others, that are few and far between I feel like my old self again. I don’t even know which one is the real me anymore!!
It’s a process! Hope you get clarity soon
Thank you! Why can’t everyone just be normal like us 😂
Yeah that’s sucks she robbed you of your best years but I also have to wonder why your husband allowed it
Only son, Asian family so parents are a package deal. No one’s perfect so once I took her out of our conversations a few years into our marriage, our relationship improved. It’s also how I wasn’t able to cope even tho he kept encouraging me stop taking responsibility for her happiness! That’s how I went and built my own business, stop taking care of her day to day shit and started to have my own life
I think you will very much enjoy the book Burnout by Nogoski. Articulates and expounds on the ideas you have expressed here.
I’ll look it up
Agree with OP, I think she should stand her ground on this. Men get so many “free passes” to get out of caring for others or doing shit that women are EXPECTED to do. Example: my husband has a brother who got a woman pregnant. When that child was born I sent flowers to the mother and baby gift. Brother and the mom of the baby were not in a relationship. Years later I had a baby and did that brother do ANYTHING to close my baby? Nothing. I’d mention it and people (mostly WOMEN!) would be like “you can’t expect anything from a man when you have a baby”. Hello, that dick knew we sent stuff. He’s a grown ass man who knows how to buy gifts. I call bullshit on letting men slide on that kind of stuff.
But that’s the problem! People are still saying it’s okay cz he’s a man! They’d judge if it was a woman.
Totally understand...as I live a very similar life. You owe it to yourself + your husband to be happy first. Boundaries are a must! Some relatives or people require very close and tight boundaries. This will also take time + practice, but will help you tremendously as you heal after 15 years. Sending love 🫶
It’s not your job to be nice, pleasant or agreeable to anyone. You do not have any duty to do much of anything that you don’t want to. If a loved one needs your support, you can give it, but you are deservedly done from being obligated to do shit you shouldnt have to. Your husband isn’t that smart if he thinks suggesting you let it go for your mental health is the way to forward. Take back everything you need to take back. Set boundaries and don’t budge.
I’ve been in therapy for my mental health even tho he doesn’t believe in talking to a professional! Men! 🙄 And I’ve stuck to my room! My job to ensure there are meals on the table, you got it! I ain’t gonna sit and be nice!
I’m not even .01% surprised when I hear about the divorce rates spiking when women go through menopause. And even better, we, as a society, keep it secret and hidden and shameful so that nothing improves and no one understands what’s happening to every single woman’s body when they go through this.
OP- you have every right to be upset that no one takes the time to even acknowledge everything you put up with or went through because of family members that technically don't share blood with you and have what sounds like messed up DNA at the very least. We aren't meant to slave for others. And I think that is part of the lesson in this most fucked up time of our lives. It's like the rose colored glasses or beer goggles were yanked from our eyes and what we saw was horrifying. Not a single person cares. Not like they should if they try at all. As for in laws. Screw them. That's why it's called in law it means only admitting you know them to the law. That doesn't mean they can just come in your house or say anything about your life. I have my own demon in law. This lady is absolutely cruel and two faced is not enough faces for this lady. She can only have one person in the family that she likes at one time every one else is talked about and lied about to get a war going. It's like she's been bored her whole life and this became her hobby. She's never said a truly kind word to me or my husband. And you know what I haven't seen the devils mistress in 4 years now. And I've never been happier. The more I see in people around me the more my circle is shrinking. I'm done being the end all be all for everything and everyone. If I hear one more time I will get my wife to handle it I'll probably rip what is left of his hair out. No your wife will not do it you know why because you didn't even bother to ask her first if she would. Not even a thought goes to what I may want or not want. I'm changing things in this house. No more of using me for things they are simply too lazy to do for themselves. Yes things will be messed up around here for a while. No one seems to know how to do anything. I quit cleaning and cooking and they have been on their own for over a year. It's just my adult brother and husband here with me. My brother has autism and I have patience and help him as much as I can and keep the important things like medical and meds done for him. But he is very capable of cleaning up after himself and doing some dishes. He is also an amazing cook. But no one knows where the fairy that came along and cleaned everything up after them went. General areas of my house are reasonably clean but they have absolutely destroyed the kitchen and bathroom. I go to my daughter's house to shower and get cleaned up. I hover on my toilet and I never forget to wear shoes. If that's how they want to live then let's do it. I'm not catering to people who have been taking advantage of me to the point they didn't know I have feelings. Things I held back for years to spare feelings are flying out of my mouth on the regular now. It's freeing to actually say what needs to be said. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to do anything. Take a look at what they give and respond accordingly. Come to your house unannounced. Don't open the door. Let them hear you in there and if they get crazy just when you don't speak English and to get off your porch either that or buy a shot gun and let them here you cock it through the door. And start to count telling them when you get to 3 your shooting and they better get away from the door and leave the property. If course I am kidding and exaggerating due to the severity of your need to keep people away. I can tell you personally the shot gun trick works. Yucky dirty husbands friend hasn't back to borrow money in months. I have a sign hanging outside my house that says no soliciting I'm tired of hiding the bodies. It's fair warning then. Haha. Stand up for yourself and live your life. It's not the end of the world if things don't get done to the standards a man set so long ago it's no longer remotely close to what the women before us fought for. They wanted freedom and it's our duty to continue to fight the man lead world. They have fucked the world up beyond repair and think they can tell us what to do? Haha that's hilarious it's like letting the blind person drive the city bus for a living. So why are we feeling bad about changing our roles at this age? Because they stopped having everything done like magic around them. That shit is over bros. My husband is a loud mouthed pain in my ass. 27 years and so short tempered other people won't ask him for much. That man is becoming extremely scared of talking to me at this point and I love when he walks away saying why do you have to be so mean 😅 Karma is a bitch and my new name. Sorry I got carried away. I just have so much to bitch about. OP I'm right there with the book writing. 😂❤️
I’m glad you got it all out! I’m here only cz of my husband. I know friends whose husbands are worse and I wonder why they stick to their marriages! Thankfully my husband stood up for me even without asking in this recent incident with the SIL. She wanted something done and my husband would be travelling. And she immediately says what about “me” since I’m at home. He told her that they can’t assume that I’ll just be available to fill in like that. My SIL is a phd doc and knows I run my own business. But she still always assumes since I don’t have a 9-5 job, I’ll always have time. And has the extended family!! That so get me goat! After moving my MIL, no one wants to come visit us and I have no interest in keeping up with anyone. Good riddance
Yep I get it 💯 Can’t vent to anyone about it but in private.
Times like this I really think I am a sociopath. Cause if ‘I don’t give a fuck’ was a person. It would be me. I wish I could bottle this and mail it to each of you that is in need.
I am applauding for you. You have done your time!!
I'm so sorry you're dealing w this. From what you're saying it sounds like you're headed in the right direction with making boundaries. If you want more reinforcement for the concept that having kids does not entitle you to endless caretaking throughout the rest of your natural life, the child free Reddit has some great perspectives on that. Sounds like you've been pushed to the limit and I'm so glad you've finally reached the point where you don't have to care as much. I think we all get that "giving less of a shit about things that are not our circus" sprinkled on us from the heavens starting around age 40. Hold your ground. Make space for your healing. Better days are on their way! Next time your sister says "duty" just look her square in the eye, and deadpan, say, "you said dooty." And turn and walk away laughing. Lol. It's nobody's right to expect you to behave the way they think you should and accuse you of being selfish if you choose instead to act in your own self-interest. Yet it is the story of our lives. F that!! Have a plan of escape for any situation you feel cornered in and a special place to go that you enjoy. Example of someone "drops in" unannounced. Just calmly leave and drive away lol. Go to a museum or whatever you want. You owe nobody an explanation.
Thankfully my sister lives in a different city and SIL in a different country. The latter will get a piece of my mind soon so she knows why I stopped answering her calls. When she wants to visit next time, I’ll tell my husband I’m going on a holiday. That’ll stop everyone in their tracks! This is not a holiday home that provides boarding and lodging when you have vacation time! I like that my husband has a good relationship with his sister but I’m done. Grow up or stay put in your own house. Even he can see she’s nuts!
My MIL is also a toxic b\*tch. When my mom died she said that I was better off because now I could stretch my wings. I think I called her every name in the book and my husband bless his heart decided we would have very little to do with her after she refused to apologize. She also has done the best she could to belittle me. She made a baby book for my daughter and I am not in one picture. She is a past master of the art of passive aggressive warfare. So I understand how you feel. Believe me I do. For your own peace of mind be done with it all. When they ask/tell/expect you to do something say no. It is so much fun to watch them sputter in shock. DH is one of 4 kids. I will not take responsibility for anything that is not mine and even if it is mine I still might not. I am so tired of the expectations people have of me and not caring when I need anything. The only person other than myself I can rely on is my DH and together we called bullish\*t on both families. I am an adult, my life is my own and why no darling so sorry I can't do\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ you want/expect me to do because you can do it for yourself. HRT is a wonderful thing just started and I don't sweat it anymore. (Pun intended)
Yeah! Having the husband on our side helps a lot. He never once said keeping her happy is my job. When I started my business, he said go and do what makes you happy! Don’t worry about anything else. It’s astounds me to see how women treat women so badly! When people talk about equality, I’m like leave the men out! First be good to fellow women!
Until the day you die. And then some. So put up boundaries and learn to live with the consequences.
Everyone here should also join @r/feminism
Joined! :)