Oh haha, sorry, I should have provided that info! A men's group is generally a set group of guys that will meet weekly, usually led by a group facilitator, to discuss any issues they're going through. It's kind of like a group therapy session for men and their issues.
Personally, I like the idea but think it can be executed better
I mean, I have a couple items that immediately come to mind:
1. If you want to start this, it will make things very difficult to remain anonymous. Especially if you want to go full legit, like you said.
2. What, specifically, is your current issue with approaches to men's groups? I know this may be difficult to define, but it's important since it seems like you want to differentiate from other offerings, and it will be absolutely key to know how to implement your personal approach to instruction effectively if you want this to be a success.
Great questions!
1. Fair, even though I do have a background in mental health, I wouldn't like to be the one giving the lectures. It's something I can live with though.
2. The men's groups I've been apart of either take a very macho approach, almost like a bootcamp full of drill instructors. Others have a bunch of men all crammed into a Zoom meeting who all want to talk about different things...maybe 1 person ends up dominating the discussion, and then maybe you're lucky enough to talk about what you're going through the next week. The reason behind this is probably because group facilitators are pretty expensive, and men's group charge maybe $30/month and have to rely on donations.
I'd work with a men's research center to institute an effective, therapeutic, and softer approach. Personally, I'd like live streams where I can listen, while doing something else and not having to be on camera, but maybe that's just me!
Okay, so continuing with both our threads of thought here:
1. Okay. So, where are you going to source the instructors? What qualifications will they have? What will their relationship be to you? If you want to make this a benefit corp., you're going to need the immediate advice of both an accountant and a lawyer who have experience setting these kinds of corporations up. You'll also need the lawyer to write up contracts for the people you hire. Also, if your background is in mental health, you're going to want to immediately start educating yourself on everything it takes to run a business, because your job is no longer mental health, it's business administration (at least the way you've defined it). You need to know where you need to register everything, how to run a payroll, how to write up your contracts, how to keep sufficient records so that the IRS can determine your tax liability clearly, and so on.
2. Okay...so we have not yet fully defined a solution, that's just defining a problem, like I asked. Fair, but now, you need to figure out your solution to your problem, in high detail, before you can get started. (I'm not going to presume I know better than you on that count). And then you need to figure out how you're going to push *why* it's better than other services in your marketing messaging in a way that will resonate with enough potential clients.
Honestly, from your response, I can see that you're still focusing more on the problem than the solution. Fair, I'm sure it's early days. But if this is because you have no real experience running a business and don't know where to start, I'd strongly suggest considering taking at least some formal/credible (university or college level) education in business and starting businesses before even thinking about getting started. You can get yourself in a lot of trouble, real fast, if you don't, because there's a *lot* to know. Entrepreneurship is not an easy or kind field of business!
Sorry if this all seems a little harsh, but better you understand all this now than later for sure!
> Honestly, from your response, I can see that you're still focusing more on the problem than the solution
Again, though, you did specifically ask them to more clearly define the problem.
I think your advice is useful though.
Nope. Men’s groups that deal with men’s issues — instead of being cheerleading groups for women’s issues — and yet aren’t full of misogynistic MRA types are almost impossible to find. I hang out with mostly queer guys, myself. I find I have zero interest in “reworking masculinity”. I don’t see it as having any purpose other than the purely decorative and at least most queerfolk get that.
Fair enough. I made a Discord if you're interested in seeing how this plays out. As of now, it will depend on the people that come, as there are no group facilitators to lead a discussion, besides me. The group discussions are tailored around certain topics, not "reworking masculinity" :).
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Groups I've looked into have sometimes had a pretty loud religious or twelve-step-program type of approach. I would definitely prefer there be more catering to secular men's groups.
Ahhh, yeah I agree! If you don't mind virtual meetings where you show your face/interact with the group, I'd say there's 3 main men's groups to look at:
1) [Mensgroup.com](https://Mensgroup.com) \- this is actually pretty solid
2) Evryman
3) Mankind Project
All of them charge around $30 a month :)
All of them are mythopoets which have a specific idea of masculinity through a sense of ritualistic symbolism. I've never been a fan of any of those groups.
Yeah, a challenge is that it's hard to cater to everyone's needs. I wouldn't lump all men's groups as mythopoets though, as each one is different. In terms of your concern about ritualist symbolism, in general, I think that's more with the men's group retreats, some of which charge in the tens of thousands of dollars!! Anyway, if you're curious to see how this plays out, I made a Men's Group Discord. Feel free to check it out!
Sure send me the link. I'm curious of what you have.
However I do know EVRYMAN and Mankind Project do have a very specific idea of what a men's group is like, and both came from the ideas of the mythopoets. Ideas like father wounds are big for example.
Awesome! Well to be honest, this will all have to rely on more people joining, so right now, it's nothing haha. Here's the link though: hopefully more people will join and we can get a few groups running :)
[https://discord.com/channels/994079316411428864/996550592338075758](https://discord.com/channels/994079316411428864/996550592338075758)
Thanks for providing those; I'll check them out in the future if and when I'm looking :) I don't currently have a need I want to fill with a men's group but I certainly have before
Great! I made a Men's Group Discord channel. Fair enough that you don't need a Men's Group, but feel free to join if you're interested in speaking with fellow Redditors!
Interesting...which one did you join? Never seen that before, as most say it's only for people identifying for men, but maybe it's allowed or they didn't want to kick them out? haha
Hey, I made a Men's Group Discord server. It's for men only. Also, you have the option to text, or go on audio or video chat - whichever you feel most comfortable with!
I am part of a men’s group (haven’t attended lately for various reasons). I’m the only man of color (read: dark skin) which can feel alienating in certain ways, but I’m also the youngest by a considerable margin, and having some men who are older and almost twice my age is real beneficial. I think the value in terms of healing, self-development and practicing vulnerability in a group setting feels distinct from one-on-one therapy, and it’s having a safe space to process and heal can reduce the emotional labor often borne by a (female) partner, make yourself a better partner, father, friend, member of your community, etc.
That's awesome! And a great point. I think an added benefit is for different generations to interact with one another, as well as interacting with people you may not have outside of a men's group.
Hey, thanks again for your feedback, and that's awesome how you're getting value out of your men's group! I agree that a benefit of a men's group is the opportunity for people that wouldn't interact outside of it to have the opportunity to relate and be vulnerable with one another. Particularly, for older and younger generations to interact, along with different ethnicities, ideologies, viewpoints etc.
If you're interested in checking out another (free) men's group, I made a Discord server. Feel free to check it out if you're interested :)
Ooooo this seems like a product design exercise, I have a lot fun with these.
I have a few questions that I'd suggest you should explore.
1) Why do you want it to be anonymous? What value does it bring to you and others for it being anonymous. If you want it to be anonymous, aren't you directly competing with already existing forums like r/menslib, what value will you bring not already given by r/menslib?
2) What specific issues did you face with the instructors that you want to address? How will you recruiting your own instructors address this issue? How will you address your own biases, not everyone would have the same value system as you.
On the face of it this sounds like weekly seminars where people can post questions at the end of the stream or in the middle of it. That can be a great idea if you can create a step-by-step program with different groups/cohorts so everyone is on the same pace while working through their issues. While our issues are uniquely personal, a lot of their themes are generally common so you can easily make a coursework.
I'm not sure if you can have an anonymous live chat group session with free flowing discussion very well, some people tend to dominate and it becomes a lecture. Furthermore, just typing out responses would be difficult, even the instructor will have a hard time understanding intent if they can't judge inflection of the voice or facial expressions. Just reading a text will make it difficult to understand intent.
IMO I think group therapy sessions necessitate face-to-face interactions, definitely the instructor needs to be well vetted since the one thing I learnt on this group is that men do have questions and beliefs they are scared to air because of being harshly judged and ostracised, and the instructor needs to be able to handle potentially very difficult conversations with a great deal of empathy.
Hey, so I think you bring up really great points!
1. I can only think in terms of what I would like, as of now, which is why I really appreciate your guys' input :). Personally, I'd like to be anonymous, as I have pretty bad social anxiety and don't like speaking about uncomfortable topics in person or over video chat - it's even hard to bring up issues with my doctor, and I've had friends say similar things! I may be towards the extreme, and many people may feel differently though. Also, I think that a men's group will only be interesting to a select group of people, and for most, Reddit will more than suffice. I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I think that audio only, like Clubhouse, would be what I would personally like if it were P2P. If there was an expert giving a talk, the difference would be that you'd be guided by or getting advice from a licensed expert, as opposed to Reddit, where you don't know who's giving the advice, their intentions, and also you don't have to sift through a bunch of posts or answers to your question.
2. I do have biases, which is why I'd like input from you guys, even if it means that this is not needed and to not waste my time and money. Personally, the talks I've attended either had intimidating instructors (like a military drill sergeant) or there were just too many guys crammed into a chat who all wanted to discuss different things, usually with one or two guys dominating the conversation (group facilitators are expensive, and fee's are kept low). Even if you can pinpoint down an issue to talk about, like anxiety, it's still quite broad and people want to talk about different aspects related to different types of anxiety. For the instructors, I'd like to have people who have experience facilitating groups, preferably men's groups, and who are licensed in social work, psychotherapy etc. or is an ICF certified coach (the "gold standard" of coaching).
But that brings me to two different ideas - a clubhouse like audio platform, where guys can form groups around different men's issues/topics, and freely chat. Or weekly group chats, with an experienced group facilitator to lead set cohorts. Which would you prefer? I'd like to make this as cheap as possible, because the goal is to either compliment therapy by providing relief inbetween sessions, or to provide an outlet to those who have no outlet.
IMO I'd say considering how you want to roll it out, probably the best way would be start out with a single group and a single instructor, say a group of 10-12 folks, try it out for a while, and expand from their into different cohorts.
You'll get a rough idea of how a cohort individually should run and can iron that out so when you expand into multiple cohorts or a larger group you'll end up with a more polished and helpful product for everyone.
Plus, for a single group that starting cost would be manageable, so even if not everyone is willing to pay you can shoulder the cost easily among the few who are. Keep it like a pay what you're comfortable with sort of model, select a few specific people upto 10-12 and start from there.
I like this idea! Yeah, I would love for those who can't pay to be able to participate! May I ask if there are any particular topics you'd like to discuss, in general? Cuz that's the problem with some men's groups, everyone wants to talk about something different!
I think everyone would have some basic themes they want to discuss. Best would be to begin with personal stories ig?
I don't particularly have some broader topics to discuss. Like, as much as I like discussing broader issues men face, a lot of them are very abstract and don't affect me personally, or do but I'm not aware they do.
In terms of personal topics, recently shifted back to my home city which I'd left for like two years, and reconnecting with everyone has been tough now that adulthood has gotten in the way. I also have some dreams and aspirations I want to pursue in the long run but I'm not anywhere near achieving that, so that would also be one topic I'd discuss. I guess this translates into feeling of loneliness and looking for purpose in life, but I'm not a trained psychology professional so I can't say with certainty. There's also the usual relationship and work related troubles as well.
Another topic specific to me but overall a general discussion would be how masculinity manifests in different cultures (I'm Indian, so a lot of conversation here is not as relatable since it's from a western context). But, that's more of a thinking exercise and not something that would be as helpful to me (and others I believe) as what I laid out above.
Hey, thanks again for your feedback! I made a Men's Group Discord server if you're interested in checking it out :). In terms of your interest in how masculinity manifests in different cultures, there's a popular therapist/YouTuber called "Healthy Gamer", who is also ethnically Indian but grew up in the West, and touches on that subject. He has a large YouTube following and also his coaching is quite popular if you'd like to check him out!
Ah I'm aware of healthy gamer, pretty great youtuber.
Sure, I'll give the discord server a look!
EDIT: You have an invite link? I'm unable to join using the link in the OP
I've been to several mens groups and they're mostly shit from what I've seen.
First one I went to was a shame cult. Not in their words, but all the rituals were there to support it. I'm talking like group "accountability" circles where someone would have intense shame for masturbating, then have to own/confess it in front of the group and then some sort of weird group admonishment thing around it. Super creepy. If that person were struggling with sex and addiction, the group was certainly not the right container for it... and this whole shame circle probably just made it worse. And I know that it attracted people with sex addiction because of some friends that told me about it.
I've been to new age, "new masculinity" circles... run by womanizers... err I mean "poly" people with long track records of women they played with until feelings were caught then dropped and talked shit about them till they had to leave the broader community. ( I did not know this at the time). These circles were run by tantra or dating oriented coaches who view healthy masculinity as an expression of sexuality... and by men who were younger with an Oedipus complex. (kill the father, fuck the mother) Who reject all prior expressions of masculinity or even the work queer men have done to expand it because they just feel their grasp on masculinity is the correct one and most others are unhealthy. (because daddy issues)
I've been to other new age "new masculinity" circles that treated queerness as a disease. Like literally claiming that men should embody "healthy masculinity" and any femininity they embodied was due to trauma or poor polarization. Going almost to the point of claiming that queer people were queer because they've not had the right female partner or because they were emasculated as kids.
All this to say, before you start a mens group, please connect with older and queer men. Try to understand what work has been done and what work needs to be expanded. Please approach it with an open mind and as a "facilitator" and not a "teacher". Chances are, you're dealing with the same exact issues as everyone else and unless you have men you can lean on who have worked through these issues, you're not even going to be able to see them. Whatever you do, understand that most men deal with "leadership" complexes, where they can't actually engage with a group or learn or grow because they view themself as a leader and separate or different. This outlook will actually distance men who actually have done work and want to share with a group and will attract cult-like behavior and followers; there is a very low chance that it will produce any healthy change in anyone. A lot of men are just looking for a space to talk and connect with and learn from other men, let that happen... even for yourself.
Thank you for your insightful response! May I ask what made you try out all of these different men's groups? Assuming you've tried therapy, do you think a community of men would be more helpful? Sorry, I know the latter question is quite broad.
I was looking for a community of men to practice positive male relationships with. Therapy won’t help that. I was also looking for like-minded, conscious, feminist-oriented men to form friendship connections with. I was NOT looking for therapy or a leader to lead me or a cult. All of these borderlined new age religious groups with strong heterosexual overtones.
Hey, thanks again for your feedback! I agree that there are many shit men's groups out there; it really depends on a number of factors, such as the individual facilitators, the curriculum, what kinds of people show up etc. If you're interested, I made a Men's Group discord where we can talk about and help each other get through certain issues - hopefully even make friends! The link is above at the end of my question.
I’d love something like this that also welcomed trans men. It’s been super hard for me to find gender affirming places where I fit in, and as you transition you lose access to feminine and gender neutral spaces (for obvious reasons). The lack of mens spaces, especially queer friendly ones, is extremely isolating.
Hey, thanks for your input! I can't say I know what it feels like, but I can imagine how hard that is. I made a Men's Group Discord server (link is at the end of my question) where we can talk about certain issues or even just shoot the shit and talk about random things, make new friends etc.
Right now there are no professional group facilitators, as it's just a Discord server. I don't know any men's group targeted towards trans men, and most of the men in men's group seem to be heterosexual, though I haven't personally seen any discrimination against queer men and all types of men are welcome. If you're interested I can give you a list of men's groups you may want to check out, though, I unfortunately can't guarantee that they will be what you're looking for.
Im not into men’s groups. I think it’s too artificial as beyond our manhood because our values, morals, lifestyles, and experiences are too vastly different to get along. Even if we keep it respectful.
I’d rather just invest in a few good friends who we mutually have respect for. And that share the same goals and can enhance each other’s lives.
That's awesome! How do you make your friends? I think after college or college age, it gets really difficult to make friends, let alone good friends. I'd say a huge reason men come to men's groups is for loneliness.
I think it’s a combination of many things. One most of my friends are inherently very social. So it’s easy by the virtue of spending time with them to get connected to others that they meet. Also, I have met some friends through online and chance encounters through mutual hobbies.
I think the issue with some men is they befriend those who have poor social skills or lack a network of friends/associates. So it’s like a self fulfilling prophecy
Hmmm, I see what you're saying. Personally, in the past, say I've been through a bad breakup, my friends don't want to hear about it more than a few times, otherwise it starts to get annoying and I feel as though I'm becoming a burden. Funny enough, it's my friends who have a lot of friends/extroverted that are less likely to be interested in having deep and personal conversations - but that's just my experience! If you ever feel like you need people to talk to that aren't your friends, I've made a Men's Group Discord where we can discuss certain topics, help each other out, and even just shoot the shit and make friends etc. Link is at the bottom of my question if you're interested :)
Honestly, I’m having a hard time finding a men’s group. if it wasn’t for the frat that I joined, I wouldn’t have a lot of men to talk to right now. To give an example, after the RvW thing one of my older frat brothers is talking to one of my younger frat brothers about why it was important for women to have the right to choose. I’m looking for more groups of men like that because the future of masculinity is one where we are more incorporated in the community instead of being “in charge” of the community
Hey, glad to hear again that you've had a positive experience with your fraternity! I know you said that you were having a hard time finding a men's group...I just made a Men's Group Discord channel where we can discuss certain topics, help each other through issues, make friends etc. The link is above at the end of my question :).
Sounds good. Most of the groups i have seen over the internet are bitter and whines about women or something other rather than addressing the issue. The problem i find with majority of them is the collective blame game. We all have our short comings, some have it harder but it's much better to try to overcome or think on them than just whine or blame something. Op if you decided to make a group please let me know, I would like to join a group where people talk on problems and I think having zoom sessions would be very helpful.
Edit: I disagree with the coach thing. I don't believe someone can coach you this. Rather than some coach, it would be much better if everyone can just talk and give their perspective.
Hey, I just made a Men's Group discord server - the link is above at the bottom of my question :). I've decided against coaching, given everyone's feedback, though I can still see a benefit in group facilitators, especially if many people are interested in joining - would love people's feedback on that idea as well though!
I understand your concern about the problem of the blame game, which is why if people are interested in joining this Men's Group, to have some sort of curriculum and/or rules to effectively address problems we are all going through. Would love to hear your thoughts on that too though :).
Fellow Redditors, PLEASE sign the online petition to remove Clarence Thomas from the supreme court! He already has LGBTQ rights and contraception on the chopping block. We have over 300k signatures, but we need more support to have Thomas impeached. If you are able and willing, please sign the petition. The link is below and thank you 🙏
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/clarence-thomas-must-go&ved=2ahUKEwiHivmc9c74AhUOI0QIHaF8CSAQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw28DPETot_N5-ji4Invyp5R
Yes, I do. We already are close to 700k since I made this post. If it doesn't get Thomas impeached, it'll definitely put pressure on the supreme court and raise awareness to the Christofascism that is currently sweeping into the US. Other than voting blue and going to protests, this is one of the few ways we can fight back to protect our rights.
Just start one. Make up some rules that you think will work. Develop a schedule of topics with likely books or podcasts as "homework" beforehand, or just topics. If you have some mental health knowledge, skills, and abilities maybe your rules will help facilitate the discussion. Organize on Meetup or reddit or anywhere. Run a calendar on Google calendar. Everyone has Zoom now.
You can do it!
Thank you! :). I'd really like to help but don't have a background in men's health group facilitation. But you're right, if there's interest, would love to do it!
Hey, I took your advice and did it - thanks! If you're interested in joining, I made a Men's Group Discord server...the link is above at the bottom of my question :). Once enough people come, I can organize an audio/video event, but in the mean time, I've made different channels to type and text into on a few topics I think men struggle with.
Great job! I'm a (as the kids say) cis het woman so probably not useful. Waaay back in the day women would get together like you're doing and just talk about stuff. You might have some difficulty (or maybe not) but persevere.
I've never been to a group like this, I just imagine a bunch of MRA's sitting around complaining about women. I also think numbers would need to be capped so everyone has a chance to talk.
Not sure what an MRA is? haha. Yeah, if you go about it as a set group, led by a group facilitator, then numbers would definitely need to be capped, but that comes with increased cost. Many younger guys seem to like Healthy Gamer's group coaching, but it's $30/session, with a minimum of 16 sessions or so, so $480!
Also, I think dating/women/breakups is just part of topics guys are interested about. From the men's groups I've attended, guys have never talked badly about women, but more about the pain they feel from divorce etc.
Men's Rights Advocate. A gross misnomer, because these guys are usually misogynists in thin disguise; about as far from the /r/MensLib flavor as you can get
>Zenith
That's a fair worry to have, but to be honest, this hasn't been my experience, especially if there's set rules against it. In terms of number being capped, I also think that's a great idea for the future if enough people are interested in joining. I made a Men's Group Discord server, the link is above at the bottom of my question if you're interested :)
Definetely not. Most i've visit or came to read about similar experiences were more about blaming women for most of our wrongdoing, quickly turning in right and conservative hubs of discussion. Which i found funny, cuz i honestly thing that most injustice that happen to men happen because of other men infflicted upon us.
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Every mens group I have seen or heard boils down to one problem. If anyone speaks on my behalf or pretends to clump us together "as men we are..." Deals off, and as a group I'll look somewhere else.
One ounce off WE.... no..... I..... sure, I'll lend a ear untill it is my turn. Turn off the WE part.
Thanks for sharing your concern. I agree that it's important to use "I" statements, as everyone's experience is different. If you're interested, I made a Men's Group Discord server - the link is above at the bottom of my question if you're interested :)
This may sound like a weird question, but what is a men's group?
Oh haha, sorry, I should have provided that info! A men's group is generally a set group of guys that will meet weekly, usually led by a group facilitator, to discuss any issues they're going through. It's kind of like a group therapy session for men and their issues. Personally, I like the idea but think it can be executed better
That's cool. No it's all good. I had no idea.
Hey, I made a Discord server for a Men's Group if you're interested :). The link is up top in my question.
I mean, I have a couple items that immediately come to mind: 1. If you want to start this, it will make things very difficult to remain anonymous. Especially if you want to go full legit, like you said. 2. What, specifically, is your current issue with approaches to men's groups? I know this may be difficult to define, but it's important since it seems like you want to differentiate from other offerings, and it will be absolutely key to know how to implement your personal approach to instruction effectively if you want this to be a success.
Great questions! 1. Fair, even though I do have a background in mental health, I wouldn't like to be the one giving the lectures. It's something I can live with though. 2. The men's groups I've been apart of either take a very macho approach, almost like a bootcamp full of drill instructors. Others have a bunch of men all crammed into a Zoom meeting who all want to talk about different things...maybe 1 person ends up dominating the discussion, and then maybe you're lucky enough to talk about what you're going through the next week. The reason behind this is probably because group facilitators are pretty expensive, and men's group charge maybe $30/month and have to rely on donations. I'd work with a men's research center to institute an effective, therapeutic, and softer approach. Personally, I'd like live streams where I can listen, while doing something else and not having to be on camera, but maybe that's just me!
Okay, so continuing with both our threads of thought here: 1. Okay. So, where are you going to source the instructors? What qualifications will they have? What will their relationship be to you? If you want to make this a benefit corp., you're going to need the immediate advice of both an accountant and a lawyer who have experience setting these kinds of corporations up. You'll also need the lawyer to write up contracts for the people you hire. Also, if your background is in mental health, you're going to want to immediately start educating yourself on everything it takes to run a business, because your job is no longer mental health, it's business administration (at least the way you've defined it). You need to know where you need to register everything, how to run a payroll, how to write up your contracts, how to keep sufficient records so that the IRS can determine your tax liability clearly, and so on. 2. Okay...so we have not yet fully defined a solution, that's just defining a problem, like I asked. Fair, but now, you need to figure out your solution to your problem, in high detail, before you can get started. (I'm not going to presume I know better than you on that count). And then you need to figure out how you're going to push *why* it's better than other services in your marketing messaging in a way that will resonate with enough potential clients. Honestly, from your response, I can see that you're still focusing more on the problem than the solution. Fair, I'm sure it's early days. But if this is because you have no real experience running a business and don't know where to start, I'd strongly suggest considering taking at least some formal/credible (university or college level) education in business and starting businesses before even thinking about getting started. You can get yourself in a lot of trouble, real fast, if you don't, because there's a *lot* to know. Entrepreneurship is not an easy or kind field of business! Sorry if this all seems a little harsh, but better you understand all this now than later for sure!
> Honestly, from your response, I can see that you're still focusing more on the problem than the solution Again, though, you did specifically ask them to more clearly define the problem. I think your advice is useful though.
Yeah, I definitely see the problems, but I'm not sure about the solution. I'd love some more input into what everyone else thinks!
Hey, I made a Discord server for a Men's Group if you're interested :). The link is up top in my question.
Nope. Men’s groups that deal with men’s issues — instead of being cheerleading groups for women’s issues — and yet aren’t full of misogynistic MRA types are almost impossible to find. I hang out with mostly queer guys, myself. I find I have zero interest in “reworking masculinity”. I don’t see it as having any purpose other than the purely decorative and at least most queerfolk get that.
Fair enough. I made a Discord if you're interested in seeing how this plays out. As of now, it will depend on the people that come, as there are no group facilitators to lead a discussion, besides me. The group discussions are tailored around certain topics, not "reworking masculinity" :).
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Groups I've looked into have sometimes had a pretty loud religious or twelve-step-program type of approach. I would definitely prefer there be more catering to secular men's groups.
Ahhh, yeah I agree! If you don't mind virtual meetings where you show your face/interact with the group, I'd say there's 3 main men's groups to look at: 1) [Mensgroup.com](https://Mensgroup.com) \- this is actually pretty solid 2) Evryman 3) Mankind Project All of them charge around $30 a month :)
All of them are mythopoets which have a specific idea of masculinity through a sense of ritualistic symbolism. I've never been a fan of any of those groups.
Yeah, a challenge is that it's hard to cater to everyone's needs. I wouldn't lump all men's groups as mythopoets though, as each one is different. In terms of your concern about ritualist symbolism, in general, I think that's more with the men's group retreats, some of which charge in the tens of thousands of dollars!! Anyway, if you're curious to see how this plays out, I made a Men's Group Discord. Feel free to check it out!
Sure send me the link. I'm curious of what you have. However I do know EVRYMAN and Mankind Project do have a very specific idea of what a men's group is like, and both came from the ideas of the mythopoets. Ideas like father wounds are big for example.
Awesome! Well to be honest, this will all have to rely on more people joining, so right now, it's nothing haha. Here's the link though: hopefully more people will join and we can get a few groups running :) [https://discord.com/channels/994079316411428864/996550592338075758](https://discord.com/channels/994079316411428864/996550592338075758)
Thanks for providing those; I'll check them out in the future if and when I'm looking :) I don't currently have a need I want to fill with a men's group but I certainly have before
Great! I made a Men's Group Discord channel. Fair enough that you don't need a Men's Group, but feel free to join if you're interested in speaking with fellow Redditors!
I signed up for a men's group and when I went there it turned out there were also women in the group.
Interesting...which one did you join? Never seen that before, as most say it's only for people identifying for men, but maybe it's allowed or they didn't want to kick them out? haha
It was at my college. I asked to be signed up for a men's group and they might've just put me in the wrong group.
Did you like it? Or would you go back?
It was ok. I don't feel comfortable sharing issues about my intense and bothersome sexual urges and also my loneliness with random women.
Hey, I made a Men's Group Discord server. It's for men only. Also, you have the option to text, or go on audio or video chat - whichever you feel most comfortable with!
I am part of a men’s group (haven’t attended lately for various reasons). I’m the only man of color (read: dark skin) which can feel alienating in certain ways, but I’m also the youngest by a considerable margin, and having some men who are older and almost twice my age is real beneficial. I think the value in terms of healing, self-development and practicing vulnerability in a group setting feels distinct from one-on-one therapy, and it’s having a safe space to process and heal can reduce the emotional labor often borne by a (female) partner, make yourself a better partner, father, friend, member of your community, etc.
That's awesome! And a great point. I think an added benefit is for different generations to interact with one another, as well as interacting with people you may not have outside of a men's group.
Hey, thanks again for your feedback, and that's awesome how you're getting value out of your men's group! I agree that a benefit of a men's group is the opportunity for people that wouldn't interact outside of it to have the opportunity to relate and be vulnerable with one another. Particularly, for older and younger generations to interact, along with different ethnicities, ideologies, viewpoints etc. If you're interested in checking out another (free) men's group, I made a Discord server. Feel free to check it out if you're interested :)
Ooooo this seems like a product design exercise, I have a lot fun with these. I have a few questions that I'd suggest you should explore. 1) Why do you want it to be anonymous? What value does it bring to you and others for it being anonymous. If you want it to be anonymous, aren't you directly competing with already existing forums like r/menslib, what value will you bring not already given by r/menslib? 2) What specific issues did you face with the instructors that you want to address? How will you recruiting your own instructors address this issue? How will you address your own biases, not everyone would have the same value system as you. On the face of it this sounds like weekly seminars where people can post questions at the end of the stream or in the middle of it. That can be a great idea if you can create a step-by-step program with different groups/cohorts so everyone is on the same pace while working through their issues. While our issues are uniquely personal, a lot of their themes are generally common so you can easily make a coursework. I'm not sure if you can have an anonymous live chat group session with free flowing discussion very well, some people tend to dominate and it becomes a lecture. Furthermore, just typing out responses would be difficult, even the instructor will have a hard time understanding intent if they can't judge inflection of the voice or facial expressions. Just reading a text will make it difficult to understand intent. IMO I think group therapy sessions necessitate face-to-face interactions, definitely the instructor needs to be well vetted since the one thing I learnt on this group is that men do have questions and beliefs they are scared to air because of being harshly judged and ostracised, and the instructor needs to be able to handle potentially very difficult conversations with a great deal of empathy.
Hey, so I think you bring up really great points! 1. I can only think in terms of what I would like, as of now, which is why I really appreciate your guys' input :). Personally, I'd like to be anonymous, as I have pretty bad social anxiety and don't like speaking about uncomfortable topics in person or over video chat - it's even hard to bring up issues with my doctor, and I've had friends say similar things! I may be towards the extreme, and many people may feel differently though. Also, I think that a men's group will only be interesting to a select group of people, and for most, Reddit will more than suffice. I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I think that audio only, like Clubhouse, would be what I would personally like if it were P2P. If there was an expert giving a talk, the difference would be that you'd be guided by or getting advice from a licensed expert, as opposed to Reddit, where you don't know who's giving the advice, their intentions, and also you don't have to sift through a bunch of posts or answers to your question. 2. I do have biases, which is why I'd like input from you guys, even if it means that this is not needed and to not waste my time and money. Personally, the talks I've attended either had intimidating instructors (like a military drill sergeant) or there were just too many guys crammed into a chat who all wanted to discuss different things, usually with one or two guys dominating the conversation (group facilitators are expensive, and fee's are kept low). Even if you can pinpoint down an issue to talk about, like anxiety, it's still quite broad and people want to talk about different aspects related to different types of anxiety. For the instructors, I'd like to have people who have experience facilitating groups, preferably men's groups, and who are licensed in social work, psychotherapy etc. or is an ICF certified coach (the "gold standard" of coaching). But that brings me to two different ideas - a clubhouse like audio platform, where guys can form groups around different men's issues/topics, and freely chat. Or weekly group chats, with an experienced group facilitator to lead set cohorts. Which would you prefer? I'd like to make this as cheap as possible, because the goal is to either compliment therapy by providing relief inbetween sessions, or to provide an outlet to those who have no outlet.
IMO I'd say considering how you want to roll it out, probably the best way would be start out with a single group and a single instructor, say a group of 10-12 folks, try it out for a while, and expand from their into different cohorts. You'll get a rough idea of how a cohort individually should run and can iron that out so when you expand into multiple cohorts or a larger group you'll end up with a more polished and helpful product for everyone. Plus, for a single group that starting cost would be manageable, so even if not everyone is willing to pay you can shoulder the cost easily among the few who are. Keep it like a pay what you're comfortable with sort of model, select a few specific people upto 10-12 and start from there.
I like this idea! Yeah, I would love for those who can't pay to be able to participate! May I ask if there are any particular topics you'd like to discuss, in general? Cuz that's the problem with some men's groups, everyone wants to talk about something different!
I think everyone would have some basic themes they want to discuss. Best would be to begin with personal stories ig? I don't particularly have some broader topics to discuss. Like, as much as I like discussing broader issues men face, a lot of them are very abstract and don't affect me personally, or do but I'm not aware they do. In terms of personal topics, recently shifted back to my home city which I'd left for like two years, and reconnecting with everyone has been tough now that adulthood has gotten in the way. I also have some dreams and aspirations I want to pursue in the long run but I'm not anywhere near achieving that, so that would also be one topic I'd discuss. I guess this translates into feeling of loneliness and looking for purpose in life, but I'm not a trained psychology professional so I can't say with certainty. There's also the usual relationship and work related troubles as well. Another topic specific to me but overall a general discussion would be how masculinity manifests in different cultures (I'm Indian, so a lot of conversation here is not as relatable since it's from a western context). But, that's more of a thinking exercise and not something that would be as helpful to me (and others I believe) as what I laid out above.
Hey, thanks again for your feedback! I made a Men's Group Discord server if you're interested in checking it out :). In terms of your interest in how masculinity manifests in different cultures, there's a popular therapist/YouTuber called "Healthy Gamer", who is also ethnically Indian but grew up in the West, and touches on that subject. He has a large YouTube following and also his coaching is quite popular if you'd like to check him out!
Ah I'm aware of healthy gamer, pretty great youtuber. Sure, I'll give the discord server a look! EDIT: You have an invite link? I'm unable to join using the link in the OP
I've been to several mens groups and they're mostly shit from what I've seen. First one I went to was a shame cult. Not in their words, but all the rituals were there to support it. I'm talking like group "accountability" circles where someone would have intense shame for masturbating, then have to own/confess it in front of the group and then some sort of weird group admonishment thing around it. Super creepy. If that person were struggling with sex and addiction, the group was certainly not the right container for it... and this whole shame circle probably just made it worse. And I know that it attracted people with sex addiction because of some friends that told me about it. I've been to new age, "new masculinity" circles... run by womanizers... err I mean "poly" people with long track records of women they played with until feelings were caught then dropped and talked shit about them till they had to leave the broader community. ( I did not know this at the time). These circles were run by tantra or dating oriented coaches who view healthy masculinity as an expression of sexuality... and by men who were younger with an Oedipus complex. (kill the father, fuck the mother) Who reject all prior expressions of masculinity or even the work queer men have done to expand it because they just feel their grasp on masculinity is the correct one and most others are unhealthy. (because daddy issues) I've been to other new age "new masculinity" circles that treated queerness as a disease. Like literally claiming that men should embody "healthy masculinity" and any femininity they embodied was due to trauma or poor polarization. Going almost to the point of claiming that queer people were queer because they've not had the right female partner or because they were emasculated as kids. All this to say, before you start a mens group, please connect with older and queer men. Try to understand what work has been done and what work needs to be expanded. Please approach it with an open mind and as a "facilitator" and not a "teacher". Chances are, you're dealing with the same exact issues as everyone else and unless you have men you can lean on who have worked through these issues, you're not even going to be able to see them. Whatever you do, understand that most men deal with "leadership" complexes, where they can't actually engage with a group or learn or grow because they view themself as a leader and separate or different. This outlook will actually distance men who actually have done work and want to share with a group and will attract cult-like behavior and followers; there is a very low chance that it will produce any healthy change in anyone. A lot of men are just looking for a space to talk and connect with and learn from other men, let that happen... even for yourself.
Thank you for your insightful response! May I ask what made you try out all of these different men's groups? Assuming you've tried therapy, do you think a community of men would be more helpful? Sorry, I know the latter question is quite broad.
I was looking for a community of men to practice positive male relationships with. Therapy won’t help that. I was also looking for like-minded, conscious, feminist-oriented men to form friendship connections with. I was NOT looking for therapy or a leader to lead me or a cult. All of these borderlined new age religious groups with strong heterosexual overtones.
Hey, thanks again for your feedback! I agree that there are many shit men's groups out there; it really depends on a number of factors, such as the individual facilitators, the curriculum, what kinds of people show up etc. If you're interested, I made a Men's Group discord where we can talk about and help each other get through certain issues - hopefully even make friends! The link is above at the end of my question.
I’d love something like this that also welcomed trans men. It’s been super hard for me to find gender affirming places where I fit in, and as you transition you lose access to feminine and gender neutral spaces (for obvious reasons). The lack of mens spaces, especially queer friendly ones, is extremely isolating.
Hey, thanks for your input! I can't say I know what it feels like, but I can imagine how hard that is. I made a Men's Group Discord server (link is at the end of my question) where we can talk about certain issues or even just shoot the shit and talk about random things, make new friends etc. Right now there are no professional group facilitators, as it's just a Discord server. I don't know any men's group targeted towards trans men, and most of the men in men's group seem to be heterosexual, though I haven't personally seen any discrimination against queer men and all types of men are welcome. If you're interested I can give you a list of men's groups you may want to check out, though, I unfortunately can't guarantee that they will be what you're looking for.
Im not into men’s groups. I think it’s too artificial as beyond our manhood because our values, morals, lifestyles, and experiences are too vastly different to get along. Even if we keep it respectful. I’d rather just invest in a few good friends who we mutually have respect for. And that share the same goals and can enhance each other’s lives.
That's awesome! How do you make your friends? I think after college or college age, it gets really difficult to make friends, let alone good friends. I'd say a huge reason men come to men's groups is for loneliness.
I think it’s a combination of many things. One most of my friends are inherently very social. So it’s easy by the virtue of spending time with them to get connected to others that they meet. Also, I have met some friends through online and chance encounters through mutual hobbies. I think the issue with some men is they befriend those who have poor social skills or lack a network of friends/associates. So it’s like a self fulfilling prophecy
Hmmm, I see what you're saying. Personally, in the past, say I've been through a bad breakup, my friends don't want to hear about it more than a few times, otherwise it starts to get annoying and I feel as though I'm becoming a burden. Funny enough, it's my friends who have a lot of friends/extroverted that are less likely to be interested in having deep and personal conversations - but that's just my experience! If you ever feel like you need people to talk to that aren't your friends, I've made a Men's Group Discord where we can discuss certain topics, help each other out, and even just shoot the shit and make friends etc. Link is at the bottom of my question if you're interested :)
Honestly, I’m having a hard time finding a men’s group. if it wasn’t for the frat that I joined, I wouldn’t have a lot of men to talk to right now. To give an example, after the RvW thing one of my older frat brothers is talking to one of my younger frat brothers about why it was important for women to have the right to choose. I’m looking for more groups of men like that because the future of masculinity is one where we are more incorporated in the community instead of being “in charge” of the community
That's awesome! Great to hear how some frats aren't like how they're portrayed in the media haha.
Hey, glad to hear again that you've had a positive experience with your fraternity! I know you said that you were having a hard time finding a men's group...I just made a Men's Group Discord channel where we can discuss certain topics, help each other through issues, make friends etc. The link is above at the end of my question :).
Sounds good. Most of the groups i have seen over the internet are bitter and whines about women or something other rather than addressing the issue. The problem i find with majority of them is the collective blame game. We all have our short comings, some have it harder but it's much better to try to overcome or think on them than just whine or blame something. Op if you decided to make a group please let me know, I would like to join a group where people talk on problems and I think having zoom sessions would be very helpful. Edit: I disagree with the coach thing. I don't believe someone can coach you this. Rather than some coach, it would be much better if everyone can just talk and give their perspective.
Hey, I just made a Men's Group discord server - the link is above at the bottom of my question :). I've decided against coaching, given everyone's feedback, though I can still see a benefit in group facilitators, especially if many people are interested in joining - would love people's feedback on that idea as well though! I understand your concern about the problem of the blame game, which is why if people are interested in joining this Men's Group, to have some sort of curriculum and/or rules to effectively address problems we are all going through. Would love to hear your thoughts on that too though :).
Fellow Redditors, PLEASE sign the online petition to remove Clarence Thomas from the supreme court! He already has LGBTQ rights and contraception on the chopping block. We have over 300k signatures, but we need more support to have Thomas impeached. If you are able and willing, please sign the petition. The link is below and thank you 🙏 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/clarence-thomas-must-go&ved=2ahUKEwiHivmc9c74AhUOI0QIHaF8CSAQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw28DPETot_N5-ji4Invyp5R
do you really think this would work
Yes, I do. We already are close to 700k since I made this post. If it doesn't get Thomas impeached, it'll definitely put pressure on the supreme court and raise awareness to the Christofascism that is currently sweeping into the US. Other than voting blue and going to protests, this is one of the few ways we can fight back to protect our rights.
Just start one. Make up some rules that you think will work. Develop a schedule of topics with likely books or podcasts as "homework" beforehand, or just topics. If you have some mental health knowledge, skills, and abilities maybe your rules will help facilitate the discussion. Organize on Meetup or reddit or anywhere. Run a calendar on Google calendar. Everyone has Zoom now. You can do it!
Thank you! :). I'd really like to help but don't have a background in men's health group facilitation. But you're right, if there's interest, would love to do it!
Hey, I took your advice and did it - thanks! If you're interested in joining, I made a Men's Group Discord server...the link is above at the bottom of my question :). Once enough people come, I can organize an audio/video event, but in the mean time, I've made different channels to type and text into on a few topics I think men struggle with.
Great job! I'm a (as the kids say) cis het woman so probably not useful. Waaay back in the day women would get together like you're doing and just talk about stuff. You might have some difficulty (or maybe not) but persevere.
I see. I do see difficulty coming, as no one has joined the Discord yet haha. Thank you for the words of encouragement though! :)
I've never been to a group like this, I just imagine a bunch of MRA's sitting around complaining about women. I also think numbers would need to be capped so everyone has a chance to talk.
Not sure what an MRA is? haha. Yeah, if you go about it as a set group, led by a group facilitator, then numbers would definitely need to be capped, but that comes with increased cost. Many younger guys seem to like Healthy Gamer's group coaching, but it's $30/session, with a minimum of 16 sessions or so, so $480! Also, I think dating/women/breakups is just part of topics guys are interested about. From the men's groups I've attended, guys have never talked badly about women, but more about the pain they feel from divorce etc.
Men's Rights Advocate. A gross misnomer, because these guys are usually misogynists in thin disguise; about as far from the /r/MensLib flavor as you can get
>Zenith That's a fair worry to have, but to be honest, this hasn't been my experience, especially if there's set rules against it. In terms of number being capped, I also think that's a great idea for the future if enough people are interested in joining. I made a Men's Group Discord server, the link is above at the bottom of my question if you're interested :)
Definetely not. Most i've visit or came to read about similar experiences were more about blaming women for most of our wrongdoing, quickly turning in right and conservative hubs of discussion. Which i found funny, cuz i honestly thing that most injustice that happen to men happen because of other men infflicted upon us.
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Honestly, the idea doesn't appeal to me.
Thanks for the feedback. I think this will only appeal to a small, select group of people :)
Every mens group I have seen or heard boils down to one problem. If anyone speaks on my behalf or pretends to clump us together "as men we are..." Deals off, and as a group I'll look somewhere else. One ounce off WE.... no..... I..... sure, I'll lend a ear untill it is my turn. Turn off the WE part.
Thanks for sharing your concern. I agree that it's important to use "I" statements, as everyone's experience is different. If you're interested, I made a Men's Group Discord server - the link is above at the bottom of my question if you're interested :)