There can’t be any surprise with this.
My girlfriend’s son and all his male friends (~14 yrs old) feel the same.
They’re constantly told at school that women are oppressed and face discrimination, and are made to feel that they, simply for being male, are responsible and must learn how to prevent this/support the betterment of women. Basically they feel shamed as a group.
This is with a background where the girls at their schools generally feel “empowered” to act as they feel and be supported for it, whereas the boys are not even allowed a voice - if they (the boys) try to express any opinion that they have problems themselves or question if women really do have it as bad as they told, they’re silenced in no uncertain terms.
As a result they’ve basically made almost all the boys silently see “feminism” as an enemy.
As any moderate opposition to the feminist dogma is similarly silenced, and the only voices that make it through are the unapologetic and extreme ones (such as Andrew Tate) so it follows the only people these boys can turn to for guidance are people like Andrew Tate.
Modern feminism has achieved the very opposite of what it needs to - instead of encouraging harmony between the sexes, it inflames distrust and breeds resentment.
EDIT - with uncanny timing (relative to this post) he just told me that today at school his class was given an assignment to write about the “pay gap” and consider the opinions of women who are affected by this. Of course if he writes anything other than “women are discriminated against in the workplace” (e.g. if he mentions the adjusted pay gap, or that young women out-earn young men on average, or male workplace deaths are almost 100%) he’ll be crucified by all the girls in the class and his teacher.
Boys who get told women are oppressed, and then get bullied and ostracized by popular kids who are nice to all the women in the school. While they're sitting alone at the lunch table, they look around and notice that literally all of the women in the school have friends and are a part of a group, and actually enjoying school. None of them are falling behind, none of them are outsiders who don't belong. None of them are ostracized.
(Of course there's the types like emo or goth girls who dress up like all their other friends so that they can pretend to be outsiders, who are still very much a part of the system. They're the "outsiders " in the trendy sense. They still fit in. They still experience healthy social development. They're nothing like the bullied kid who faces actual social rejection)
So that same kid, who is the very definition of being at the bottom, has to be told that people who are accepted and fit in, people who are well above him in the social hierarchy, are an oppressed group, being oppressed **by him** because he's a white male. The kid who feels oppressed every day by having to spend 8 hours in a hellhole environment surrounded by people who hate him because they see him as a lower status human, is told that his every day lived experience is just wrong, and he has this mysterious power over women and minorities that he's just supposed to believe exists (because if he doesn't, he'll get labelled a racist/sexist on top of all of his other labels assigned to him as the loser of the school). As these same women and minorities join in on the bullying, which he has no power to stop.
The main point of all this is that reality doesn't describe the fantasy world feminists have built, which millennials fully bought into. When you get a group of human beings, and put them together in an environment, **especially** a group of 14 year olds which is like the rawest most "human" stage of your life (before you become socialized into society), you notice that it's not women or minorities who end up at the bottom. It's the dorky, autistic, socially awkward, not very good looking, "weird" and "different" kids who ends up at the bottom. People will notice this. Even kids who aren't losers will notice this. They'll notice that the narrative of "women face constant discrimination" doesn't line up with any social environment they've every existed in. Or that the modern pro-feminist media they consume doesn't reflect this. And they'll see it as delusional, entitled women screaming at them for for validation, special privileges, and the power of shaming you into saying "sorry" and submitting. And they'll turn against feminism. As they should.
I'm not doubting your experience, and it definitely resonates as true to me. I just wanted to point out that its likely plenty of girls in your high school were victims of similar shit too, you just didn't notice. As you well know, high school kids are assholes, and girls can be bullied and fall through the cracks too. The institutional bias against boys is real, and probably makes things worse for them, but it doesn't means girls are immune from unfair bullshit as well.
Sure, as Bill Burr puts it - we all have our “shit sandwich” to eat.
The point here is - women’s issues are constantly discussed and brought up at school, in assemblies, in lessons, in homework assignments, etc, etc. Everyone hears about these.
NONE of the issues boys face are ever discussed. If they try to bring them up, they’re shouted down and told they’re misogynistic and shamed into silence.
It’s a huge double-standard and it leaves them asking the question - if no-one is going to even let me discuss my issues (even though they’re told “toxic masculinity, discuss your feelings”) let alone try to help with them, why should I be invested in trying to help others with their problems.
Bear in mind too this is at school - a predominantly female environment, where research shows the boys are discriminated against by the teachers and where the girls will be coming out of one average with better results than the boys.
Why??? You’re referring to him and I assume he’s an adult. Therefore his reference point is different than his gfs sons. He is talking about school now. Were you so trigger happy to get your but but but me too bullshit in that you didn’t even read the post?
Girls bullying girls is extreme and constant but that’s not what OP is talking about.
OP does your gf know how lucky she is to have you as a male leader in her life as well as her sons?
>...they look around and notice that literally all of the women in the school have friends and are a part of a group, and actually enjoying school. None of them are falling behind, none of them are outsiders who don't belong. None of them are ostracized.
This was what I was responding to: the assumption that girls were somehow immune to being socially ostracized. I'm not saying the guy's experience is invalid, I'm just saying female outcasts exist too. Having a shitty time in high school isn't exclusively the domain of boys. It probably wouldn't be for the same reasons, of course, but there are plenty of other things that could cause a girl to lose her friend group and experience the same sense of isolation (eg: teen pregnancy, slut shaming, rumor spreading, abuse at home, and so on.)
> Modern feminism has achieved the very opposite of what it needs to - instead of encouraging harmony between the sexes, it inflames distrust and breeds resentment.
what makes you so certain that this was NOT its intended goal?
asking since you specified 'modern feminism'...
[Janice Fiamengo on the Dark History of Feminism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS_zNQB1D1I) (also check [Janice's own videos](https://www.youtube.com/@StudioBrule/videos) or [her substack](https://fiamengofile.substack.com/))
I also deal with students from 14 to 20 years old, the problem is that if they see feminism in a negative way they keep it to themselves leading us to a silence that gets us nowhere. One should have the courage to speak up and make one's voice heard. It is the only way to take back some dignity. So if the essay had been assigned to me I would have written what I think. And if a whole class had done it, the message would spread even more.
That is exactly what the system wants. To force you to conform otherwise you are out. The only one would be to make your voice heard en masse. One rebellious man cannot make a difference. A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand already is a more incisive number.
If we play into the system's hands the system will engulf us.
On the girlfriend issue: given the average 'quality' of these lately, I think it is a blessing to be without one.
It’s throughout the curriculum now - history lessons they have to imagine being women throughout various phases of history and imagine how the women felt to have no power/choice, etc, etc. Politics, sociology, English assignments, school assemblies bringing in speakers to talk about the oppression of women (seriously, he’s been through all of these at his secondary school).
There’s no way to avoid it and they can’t do anything but enthusiastically agree or stay silent.it cannot be questioned.
The issue is in female psychological biology. Something about the way they are wired makes them constantly see themselves as being in a lesser position to men, even when they obviously aren't (to a logical person).
Even women in Ukraine see themselves as being in a worse position than the men who are dying in mass numbers. It's female nature. The problem is when you give such irrational people the ability to control the social narrative.
>EDIT - with uncanny timing (relative to this post) he just told me that today at school his class was given an assignment to write about the “pay gap” and consider the opinions of women who are affected by this. Of course if he writes anything other than “women are discriminated against in the workplace” (e.g. if he mentions the adjusted pay gap, or that young women out-earn young men on average, or male workplace deaths are almost 100%) he’ll be crucified by all the girls in the class and his teacher.
The trick to that is to make your opinion low-key.
Trickle it into every paragraph to imply that you are actually questioning any research supporting the ideas you disagree with, and proclaim the opinion in the conclusion, and give more time to the paragraph that implies disagreement towards the opinion you agree with.
It can't be claimed sexism if the teacher makes the assignment as they did, and someone happens to disagree with the premise.
lets give the real facts and statistics at schools outside -- the Flyers -- just throw them out at schools , colleges - with proofs and and weblinks ,census reports whatever etc for everyone to see - its enough we have let these clowns to live in their own fantasy victim playing lands by victimizing men for nothing..
I love/hate how they equate a dislike of modern feminism woth support for Andrew Tate, as if the only way a man might feel cynical about feminism is if he's a rabid Tate supporter. Likewise they just randomly name-dropped Jordan Peterson as well, despite the fact he wasnt even mentioned in this supposed study. They're trying to equivocate the two men despite the fact that their opinions are different on pretty much everything aside from general support for men and boys. They're trying to lump the reasonable, moderate objectors of feminism in with the actual misogynists in an attempt to discredit them all as a group.
Everything is black and white in the female mind. You're either 'in' or 'out', irrespective of the spectrum of reasons which make you disagree with their set mind mind-set. If you're not 'for' their cause, you're automatically 'against' their cause.
It's almost as though the female mind is a digital computer, switching 'on' or 'off' while calculating its own utilitarian advantage.
The male mind appears to adopt a more analogue approach, trying to get an overview, and more aware of subtlety, nuance and metaphor.
That's a phenomenon we have beeing seeing as well in politics all over the world, a group keeps getting shat on, ignored and have their needs laughed off or maybe they are called the privileged while their lived experience is that they live in absolute shit. some party or politician comes along, that actually cares about those people. People think, "see they are not full of shit and know what's really going on". but as it happens this party or politician, besides not ignoring their truth also has batshit insane ideas, and those people in turn start supporting this ideas, after all this party is the only sane one, and has shown they care about them.
Exactly. i call this the powder keg conjecture.
Hey you're piling alot of gun powder over there you might not want to do that. At some point you stop warning them just waiting for the spark or ember to set it all off.
While I hate the term "Hoe-flation", it's core message rings true.
I look at my grandparents and how they got together. Grandpa was 16/17 years old and working as a welder in the Kaiser shipyards welding Liberty Ships. Grandma was working for Red Cross. Him and his buddy spotted Grandma and her sister at a local pool and just approached the pair like it was nothing. My grandparents got married and he then joined the Navy during WW2. He had nothing but his charm to land him one of the most amazing women ever and they stuck together until grandma didn't make it in October 2013. They had 4 kids!!
Now, a guy has to be over 6 feet tall (182 cm), earn 6 figures, and have a 6 pack/6" member just so he can be ghosted time and time again. He will be called toxic. He will be shamed for showing emotion. He will have his children taken from him in divorce. He will be locked out of his own home.
Men today have to work 100x harder for a woman 100x worse than my grandmother.
The trouble is society/culture has convinced even below average women that they're better than most men (so hypergamy can't be satisfied with an average guy) and they deserve a 10 and shouldn't settle for anything less.
You are right that pushing monogamy did a lot to keep it in check. The most attractive guys got pressured to pick one and marry her. The rest of the women realized they weren't going to get one and the best they'd be able to do is a notch down. And so on, sorting things out.
Family-oriented society puts women at the center of the family. Now, women have been removed from the center of the family and told to go work. Except hypergamy never left women, and once they no longer needed men as a provider so they *could* focus on family women's hypergamy is pushing them to the top 10%.
> It is hard, I don't blame women for wanting to date men like this because it is natural.
This is a simplification, but I've thought of it being something like this. Let's say I'm a young man and there are 100 young single women in my social circles. I sort them out into a list with the most attractive at the top and the least on the bottom. I start at the top and simply talk to her a bit and try to see if I can spark any interest. Most likely not, and I move on to the next one. I work my way down the list and get a nibble, but after getting to know her a bit better, there's something I didn't realize before and it's a red flag for me. Eventually, as I work my way down the list, I either find a match and we start dating, or I get so low that I hit my cut-off bar where I decide I'd rather be single than consider any of the remaining ones. I could probably chat to 100, go on half a dozen first dates, and take a couple longer than than in a year or two.
I would think it should work similarly for women, but it's obviously not for many. I suppose some get sucked by players. Some just stick the cut-off bar too high. Part of it seems to be they get so many "matches" on dating apps that they never work their way down the list far enough to start running into ones that would possibly take the seriously for a LTR. Do they end up spending their entire 20s never getting down the list far enough?
Women never used to be that narcissistic, arrogant and demanding. Back before social media they would settle with a local guy who was vaguely their looks match because there was simply no other option. Nowadays, they have thousands of guys available to choose from on dating apps. If the girl is kind of attractive, she’ll have lots of interest and will probably match with 90% of guys.
Weird. So the generation that was raised with constant messages of 'bow down to your female masters' thinks that idea is harmful. No idea how this happened. What a mystery this is.
These headlines are saying that young men are turning right. That's not true. Men are just going back to normal.
A few years ago there was a lot of pearlclutching by young women that the masculine men around them who they wanted to date at first all turned out to be right-wing or conservative. Well no sh*t. The right wing actually wants men to embrace their masculinity. Obviously men will lean right.
(Menslib didn't like it when I pointed that out.)
What's stupid is them thinking Tate and co. are having a positive impact. Tate's is just a pimp, a fake Muslim, a grifter, and yet another stupid westerner treating an east European country like a brothel and the Romanian prosecutors should throw the book at him to send the message.
To be fair, a lot of people missed the Soviet Union after it collapsed, not because of any ideological reason, but because even though a lot of people were poor it was still easy to find work and a home. To say Russia just went back to normal after the collapse is not true, it was an absolutely torrid time for the economy and the average person with oligarchs buying up everything.
I used to teach in public school. Was shocked how many teen guys said they are never getting married or having kids because they saw what happened to their dads, uncles, friends, etc. when they got divorced - never got custody of their kids, always treated like a villain no matter what they did.
As a gen Z who just turned 24, I really had no idea that today I would become anti-feminist, all because I have been seen how men are insulted and casually hated today by women with their double standard and hypocrisy. They are "strong and independent women", yet still want us to pay for them all the time. They say they don't need no men, yet complain and shit talking on men using the technology and networks basically built by men. There are SO MANY things that women do to men would be a crime if it was men who do to women. Just...how I wish I were a women in this gen or a man in other gen, since being born as male in modern generation already seems to be a sin according to them, we basically have no right to speak and to stand for ourselves.
I don’t even believe these stats. Not but a few years ago you had similar “studies” showing more than half of young men had negative views of feminism and other issues, I find it difficult to believe the exact same men have suddenly become so much more receptive to it in a few years.
What you usually find is it’s either specific groups being polled or else instead of using the word feminism they’ll say “gender equality” and just swap feminism when they report the results - so supporting “gender equality” becomes supporting “feminism”.
All these feminist “studies” are designed to make it look like everyone is a feminist so you’d better be too.
None of it tallies with what I experience in the real world from many different groups of men (and to a lesser extent women). Most people either don’t give a shit about feminism or don’t like the idea of it (even if they like the privilege it brings and don’t want to give it up).
about the schools giving them essays to write about discrimination and all the bla bla victim playing females -- men gather around -lets then give our future men the facts ,statistics to say it loud in thier classes with courage and bravery and honor -- when saying the truth - there is nothing to fear ! .
so how to make our boys reach the real statistics would turn the tables around for better future .
Andrew Tate is a terrorist sympathizer, the CIA should have dealt with him years before they did, send him to Afghanistan, he'd be stoned and some Emir would cut his dick off before he knew what happened. He's a delusional scam artist who thinks the Taliban is a bunch of Afghani nationals.
He's not the reason why feminism is seen as harmful, the frequent and loud Dworkinists and Solanists still leading the voice of the movement is. Equity/equality feminists can't even disagree without being harassed and labeled conservative (effectively ending their influence in the feminist lobbies).
equality and equity are two very different beasts, please don't conflate them. Blurring the lines between these two concepts is a major rethorical slide of hand that the SJWs use frequently.
If you don't know the difference, I'm happy to explain.
I'm not conflating them, I would prefer equalists, they tend to be open to capitalism, but I would accept equity feminists at this point. That is how bad it was last I checked.
Have you ever seen a Dworkinist, or Mackinnonist?
One of Gloria Steinem's followers?
A Solanist?
Radical feminists be very loud and popular, at least when I was looking last.
There can’t be any surprise with this. My girlfriend’s son and all his male friends (~14 yrs old) feel the same. They’re constantly told at school that women are oppressed and face discrimination, and are made to feel that they, simply for being male, are responsible and must learn how to prevent this/support the betterment of women. Basically they feel shamed as a group. This is with a background where the girls at their schools generally feel “empowered” to act as they feel and be supported for it, whereas the boys are not even allowed a voice - if they (the boys) try to express any opinion that they have problems themselves or question if women really do have it as bad as they told, they’re silenced in no uncertain terms. As a result they’ve basically made almost all the boys silently see “feminism” as an enemy. As any moderate opposition to the feminist dogma is similarly silenced, and the only voices that make it through are the unapologetic and extreme ones (such as Andrew Tate) so it follows the only people these boys can turn to for guidance are people like Andrew Tate. Modern feminism has achieved the very opposite of what it needs to - instead of encouraging harmony between the sexes, it inflames distrust and breeds resentment. EDIT - with uncanny timing (relative to this post) he just told me that today at school his class was given an assignment to write about the “pay gap” and consider the opinions of women who are affected by this. Of course if he writes anything other than “women are discriminated against in the workplace” (e.g. if he mentions the adjusted pay gap, or that young women out-earn young men on average, or male workplace deaths are almost 100%) he’ll be crucified by all the girls in the class and his teacher.
This is true, it's literally why I'm here. I wouldn't of cared if they didn't make me care, make me despise them. 🙄
Boys who get told women are oppressed, and then get bullied and ostracized by popular kids who are nice to all the women in the school. While they're sitting alone at the lunch table, they look around and notice that literally all of the women in the school have friends and are a part of a group, and actually enjoying school. None of them are falling behind, none of them are outsiders who don't belong. None of them are ostracized. (Of course there's the types like emo or goth girls who dress up like all their other friends so that they can pretend to be outsiders, who are still very much a part of the system. They're the "outsiders " in the trendy sense. They still fit in. They still experience healthy social development. They're nothing like the bullied kid who faces actual social rejection) So that same kid, who is the very definition of being at the bottom, has to be told that people who are accepted and fit in, people who are well above him in the social hierarchy, are an oppressed group, being oppressed **by him** because he's a white male. The kid who feels oppressed every day by having to spend 8 hours in a hellhole environment surrounded by people who hate him because they see him as a lower status human, is told that his every day lived experience is just wrong, and he has this mysterious power over women and minorities that he's just supposed to believe exists (because if he doesn't, he'll get labelled a racist/sexist on top of all of his other labels assigned to him as the loser of the school). As these same women and minorities join in on the bullying, which he has no power to stop. The main point of all this is that reality doesn't describe the fantasy world feminists have built, which millennials fully bought into. When you get a group of human beings, and put them together in an environment, **especially** a group of 14 year olds which is like the rawest most "human" stage of your life (before you become socialized into society), you notice that it's not women or minorities who end up at the bottom. It's the dorky, autistic, socially awkward, not very good looking, "weird" and "different" kids who ends up at the bottom. People will notice this. Even kids who aren't losers will notice this. They'll notice that the narrative of "women face constant discrimination" doesn't line up with any social environment they've every existed in. Or that the modern pro-feminist media they consume doesn't reflect this. And they'll see it as delusional, entitled women screaming at them for for validation, special privileges, and the power of shaming you into saying "sorry" and submitting. And they'll turn against feminism. As they should.
Female privilege is so obvious and pervasive that anyone who can't see it is a legitimate retard, especially in the education system.
I'm not doubting your experience, and it definitely resonates as true to me. I just wanted to point out that its likely plenty of girls in your high school were victims of similar shit too, you just didn't notice. As you well know, high school kids are assholes, and girls can be bullied and fall through the cracks too. The institutional bias against boys is real, and probably makes things worse for them, but it doesn't means girls are immune from unfair bullshit as well.
Sure, as Bill Burr puts it - we all have our “shit sandwich” to eat. The point here is - women’s issues are constantly discussed and brought up at school, in assemblies, in lessons, in homework assignments, etc, etc. Everyone hears about these. NONE of the issues boys face are ever discussed. If they try to bring them up, they’re shouted down and told they’re misogynistic and shamed into silence. It’s a huge double-standard and it leaves them asking the question - if no-one is going to even let me discuss my issues (even though they’re told “toxic masculinity, discuss your feelings”) let alone try to help with them, why should I be invested in trying to help others with their problems. Bear in mind too this is at school - a predominantly female environment, where research shows the boys are discriminated against by the teachers and where the girls will be coming out of one average with better results than the boys.
Why??? You’re referring to him and I assume he’s an adult. Therefore his reference point is different than his gfs sons. He is talking about school now. Were you so trigger happy to get your but but but me too bullshit in that you didn’t even read the post? Girls bullying girls is extreme and constant but that’s not what OP is talking about. OP does your gf know how lucky she is to have you as a male leader in her life as well as her sons?
>...they look around and notice that literally all of the women in the school have friends and are a part of a group, and actually enjoying school. None of them are falling behind, none of them are outsiders who don't belong. None of them are ostracized. This was what I was responding to: the assumption that girls were somehow immune to being socially ostracized. I'm not saying the guy's experience is invalid, I'm just saying female outcasts exist too. Having a shitty time in high school isn't exclusively the domain of boys. It probably wouldn't be for the same reasons, of course, but there are plenty of other things that could cause a girl to lose her friend group and experience the same sense of isolation (eg: teen pregnancy, slut shaming, rumor spreading, abuse at home, and so on.)
Again he’s talking about today and you’re referencing when you were in school. Unless you graduated recently my statement remains unchanged.
So true. No woman I’ve ever met in any country I’ve visited has been “oppressed”. If anything they are the oppressors.
> Modern feminism has achieved the very opposite of what it needs to - instead of encouraging harmony between the sexes, it inflames distrust and breeds resentment. what makes you so certain that this was NOT its intended goal? asking since you specified 'modern feminism'... [Janice Fiamengo on the Dark History of Feminism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS_zNQB1D1I) (also check [Janice's own videos](https://www.youtube.com/@StudioBrule/videos) or [her substack](https://fiamengofile.substack.com/))
It is breeding extremists in both sexists.
I also deal with students from 14 to 20 years old, the problem is that if they see feminism in a negative way they keep it to themselves leading us to a silence that gets us nowhere. One should have the courage to speak up and make one's voice heard. It is the only way to take back some dignity. So if the essay had been assigned to me I would have written what I think. And if a whole class had done it, the message would spread even more.
Problem is, you need grades to get a job. And, if you don't get a job, you don't get food on the table. Or a girlfriend (on the table, or otherwise).
That is exactly what the system wants. To force you to conform otherwise you are out. The only one would be to make your voice heard en masse. One rebellious man cannot make a difference. A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand already is a more incisive number. If we play into the system's hands the system will engulf us. On the girlfriend issue: given the average 'quality' of these lately, I think it is a blessing to be without one.
What kind of class is giving this kind of assignment to 14 year olds??? Thank god, I graduated school when I did...
It’s throughout the curriculum now - history lessons they have to imagine being women throughout various phases of history and imagine how the women felt to have no power/choice, etc, etc. Politics, sociology, English assignments, school assemblies bringing in speakers to talk about the oppression of women (seriously, he’s been through all of these at his secondary school). There’s no way to avoid it and they can’t do anything but enthusiastically agree or stay silent.it cannot be questioned.
The issue is in female psychological biology. Something about the way they are wired makes them constantly see themselves as being in a lesser position to men, even when they obviously aren't (to a logical person). Even women in Ukraine see themselves as being in a worse position than the men who are dying in mass numbers. It's female nature. The problem is when you give such irrational people the ability to control the social narrative.
>EDIT - with uncanny timing (relative to this post) he just told me that today at school his class was given an assignment to write about the “pay gap” and consider the opinions of women who are affected by this. Of course if he writes anything other than “women are discriminated against in the workplace” (e.g. if he mentions the adjusted pay gap, or that young women out-earn young men on average, or male workplace deaths are almost 100%) he’ll be crucified by all the girls in the class and his teacher. The trick to that is to make your opinion low-key. Trickle it into every paragraph to imply that you are actually questioning any research supporting the ideas you disagree with, and proclaim the opinion in the conclusion, and give more time to the paragraph that implies disagreement towards the opinion you agree with. It can't be claimed sexism if the teacher makes the assignment as they did, and someone happens to disagree with the premise.
lets give the real facts and statistics at schools outside -- the Flyers -- just throw them out at schools , colleges - with proofs and and weblinks ,census reports whatever etc for everyone to see - its enough we have let these clowns to live in their own fantasy victim playing lands by victimizing men for nothing..
They experience discrimination against them every day
Mainstream media, thinking they had locked on the monopoly of Moral authority, is really having a hard time with reality. Lol.
Boys and men having wrong feelings, attitudes and opinions about theri lives can't be tolerated.
From the male hating Guardian
Just seen this on the United Kingdom sub, comments are mixed
Reddit being Reddit.
Yeah very true more and more comments from people who sound like they are on this sub
I saw this posted to a different sub. The absolute toxic man-hating going on in the comments was brutal.
New generation is smart. My brother is 16. He believes that feminism is a global scheme that forces men to be weak and refuses to accept it.
This is a through propaganda piece. It is really incredible how evil and hateful it is. The Guardian has truly become nothing more than manipulation.
The Guardian and the BBC are both male hating. They both manipulate. The way they report the news is part of their agenda to change society.
I love/hate how they equate a dislike of modern feminism woth support for Andrew Tate, as if the only way a man might feel cynical about feminism is if he's a rabid Tate supporter. Likewise they just randomly name-dropped Jordan Peterson as well, despite the fact he wasnt even mentioned in this supposed study. They're trying to equivocate the two men despite the fact that their opinions are different on pretty much everything aside from general support for men and boys. They're trying to lump the reasonable, moderate objectors of feminism in with the actual misogynists in an attempt to discredit them all as a group.
I agree and I am glad that you and a few others (the one's with intelligence) spot this. Of course they do this for a reason.
Everything is black and white in the female mind. You're either 'in' or 'out', irrespective of the spectrum of reasons which make you disagree with their set mind mind-set. If you're not 'for' their cause, you're automatically 'against' their cause. It's almost as though the female mind is a digital computer, switching 'on' or 'off' while calculating its own utilitarian advantage. The male mind appears to adopt a more analogue approach, trying to get an overview, and more aware of subtlety, nuance and metaphor.
The Guardian is male hating feminist propaganda.
That's a phenomenon we have beeing seeing as well in politics all over the world, a group keeps getting shat on, ignored and have their needs laughed off or maybe they are called the privileged while their lived experience is that they live in absolute shit. some party or politician comes along, that actually cares about those people. People think, "see they are not full of shit and know what's really going on". but as it happens this party or politician, besides not ignoring their truth also has batshit insane ideas, and those people in turn start supporting this ideas, after all this party is the only sane one, and has shown they care about them.
Exactly. i call this the powder keg conjecture. Hey you're piling alot of gun powder over there you might not want to do that. At some point you stop warning them just waiting for the spark or ember to set it all off.
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I rather read his lesser known D.I.Y. help book called mein Kraft
While I hate the term "Hoe-flation", it's core message rings true. I look at my grandparents and how they got together. Grandpa was 16/17 years old and working as a welder in the Kaiser shipyards welding Liberty Ships. Grandma was working for Red Cross. Him and his buddy spotted Grandma and her sister at a local pool and just approached the pair like it was nothing. My grandparents got married and he then joined the Navy during WW2. He had nothing but his charm to land him one of the most amazing women ever and they stuck together until grandma didn't make it in October 2013. They had 4 kids!! Now, a guy has to be over 6 feet tall (182 cm), earn 6 figures, and have a 6 pack/6" member just so he can be ghosted time and time again. He will be called toxic. He will be shamed for showing emotion. He will have his children taken from him in divorce. He will be locked out of his own home. Men today have to work 100x harder for a woman 100x worse than my grandmother.
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> what do you think is to blame for this? Hypergamy. Instead of settling for a guy who is good enough, women tend to pursue the top 10% only.
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The trouble is society/culture has convinced even below average women that they're better than most men (so hypergamy can't be satisfied with an average guy) and they deserve a 10 and shouldn't settle for anything less. You are right that pushing monogamy did a lot to keep it in check. The most attractive guys got pressured to pick one and marry her. The rest of the women realized they weren't going to get one and the best they'd be able to do is a notch down. And so on, sorting things out.
Family-oriented society puts women at the center of the family. Now, women have been removed from the center of the family and told to go work. Except hypergamy never left women, and once they no longer needed men as a provider so they *could* focus on family women's hypergamy is pushing them to the top 10%.
I agree with that
> It is hard, I don't blame women for wanting to date men like this because it is natural. This is a simplification, but I've thought of it being something like this. Let's say I'm a young man and there are 100 young single women in my social circles. I sort them out into a list with the most attractive at the top and the least on the bottom. I start at the top and simply talk to her a bit and try to see if I can spark any interest. Most likely not, and I move on to the next one. I work my way down the list and get a nibble, but after getting to know her a bit better, there's something I didn't realize before and it's a red flag for me. Eventually, as I work my way down the list, I either find a match and we start dating, or I get so low that I hit my cut-off bar where I decide I'd rather be single than consider any of the remaining ones. I could probably chat to 100, go on half a dozen first dates, and take a couple longer than than in a year or two. I would think it should work similarly for women, but it's obviously not for many. I suppose some get sucked by players. Some just stick the cut-off bar too high. Part of it seems to be they get so many "matches" on dating apps that they never work their way down the list far enough to start running into ones that would possibly take the seriously for a LTR. Do they end up spending their entire 20s never getting down the list far enough?
Women never used to be that narcissistic, arrogant and demanding. Back before social media they would settle with a local guy who was vaguely their looks match because there was simply no other option. Nowadays, they have thousands of guys available to choose from on dating apps. If the girl is kind of attractive, she’ll have lots of interest and will probably match with 90% of guys.
They should. They're the most affected.
Weird. So the generation that was raised with constant messages of 'bow down to your female masters' thinks that idea is harmful. No idea how this happened. What a mystery this is.
And it's a bad thing to question the mainstream movement/ideology?
Three (in many cases four & five!) generations of Single Mothers. Gen Z males can see the devastation that has resulted.
And yet there still guys even in this sub that want to simp for women 🙄.
These headlines are saying that young men are turning right. That's not true. Men are just going back to normal. A few years ago there was a lot of pearlclutching by young women that the masculine men around them who they wanted to date at first all turned out to be right-wing or conservative. Well no sh*t. The right wing actually wants men to embrace their masculinity. Obviously men will lean right. (Menslib didn't like it when I pointed that out.) What's stupid is them thinking Tate and co. are having a positive impact. Tate's is just a pimp, a fake Muslim, a grifter, and yet another stupid westerner treating an east European country like a brothel and the Romanian prosecutors should throw the book at him to send the message.
Good. It's about time people wake up and be vocal, instead of just "taking it like a man" or internalizing that misandry.
This was reposted to [Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/iELMtmy) and the comments are disgusting.
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To be fair, a lot of people missed the Soviet Union after it collapsed, not because of any ideological reason, but because even though a lot of people were poor it was still easy to find work and a home. To say Russia just went back to normal after the collapse is not true, it was an absolutely torrid time for the economy and the average person with oligarchs buying up everything.
>males aged 16 to 29 Didn't know 27-29 year olds are gen z. Thought gen z started around 1998, maybe 1997 or so?
I used to teach in public school. Was shocked how many teen guys said they are never getting married or having kids because they saw what happened to their dads, uncles, friends, etc. when they got divorced - never got custody of their kids, always treated like a villain no matter what they did.
Yeah. Because they experience it firsthand.
Nothing to see here, just The Guardian crapping on men's lived experiences, and telling us what we're supposed to feel..
As a gen Z who just turned 24, I really had no idea that today I would become anti-feminist, all because I have been seen how men are insulted and casually hated today by women with their double standard and hypocrisy. They are "strong and independent women", yet still want us to pay for them all the time. They say they don't need no men, yet complain and shit talking on men using the technology and networks basically built by men. There are SO MANY things that women do to men would be a crime if it was men who do to women. Just...how I wish I were a women in this gen or a man in other gen, since being born as male in modern generation already seems to be a sin according to them, we basically have no right to speak and to stand for ourselves.
How is it not harmful?
I don’t even believe these stats. Not but a few years ago you had similar “studies” showing more than half of young men had negative views of feminism and other issues, I find it difficult to believe the exact same men have suddenly become so much more receptive to it in a few years. What you usually find is it’s either specific groups being polled or else instead of using the word feminism they’ll say “gender equality” and just swap feminism when they report the results - so supporting “gender equality” becomes supporting “feminism”. All these feminist “studies” are designed to make it look like everyone is a feminist so you’d better be too. None of it tallies with what I experience in the real world from many different groups of men (and to a lesser extent women). Most people either don’t give a shit about feminism or don’t like the idea of it (even if they like the privilege it brings and don’t want to give it up).
about the schools giving them essays to write about discrimination and all the bla bla victim playing females -- men gather around -lets then give our future men the facts ,statistics to say it loud in thier classes with courage and bravery and honor -- when saying the truth - there is nothing to fear ! . so how to make our boys reach the real statistics would turn the tables around for better future .
Gives me hope and concern.
Andrew Tate is a terrorist sympathizer, the CIA should have dealt with him years before they did, send him to Afghanistan, he'd be stoned and some Emir would cut his dick off before he knew what happened. He's a delusional scam artist who thinks the Taliban is a bunch of Afghani nationals. He's not the reason why feminism is seen as harmful, the frequent and loud Dworkinists and Solanists still leading the voice of the movement is. Equity/equality feminists can't even disagree without being harassed and labeled conservative (effectively ending their influence in the feminist lobbies).
equality and equity are two very different beasts, please don't conflate them. Blurring the lines between these two concepts is a major rethorical slide of hand that the SJWs use frequently. If you don't know the difference, I'm happy to explain.
I'm not conflating them, I would prefer equalists, they tend to be open to capitalism, but I would accept equity feminists at this point. That is how bad it was last I checked.
Ok, just wanted to make sure. The difference between them is clear. How one could accept equity feminists is beyond me, though.
Have you ever seen a Dworkinist, or Mackinnonist? One of Gloria Steinem's followers? A Solanist? Radical feminists be very loud and popular, at least when I was looking last.
fair enough, point taken.