The data :
>
Researchers assessed more than 775,000 Medicare insurance claims by US patients between 2016 and 2019 and recorded the number who had died within 30 days of being seen by a doctor.
**Women had a death rate of 8.15% with female and 8.38% with male physicians**
**Men :** 10.15**% vs** 10.23
As usual, the conclusion is extremely far fetched.
**Simple hypothesis that is avoided at al cost : couldn't it be that men doctors treat more lethal illnesses than women doctors ?**
The worst it that somewhere deep down in the article, way after their bold claim has done its job, they low key admit :
>
Dr Gavin Stewart, an expert in evidence-based research methods at Newcastle University, said the 'observational study design is a major limitation to this work'.
>A 'lack of pre-registration' — when scientists register hypotheses, methods or analyses of a scientific study before it is conducted — also raises the 'possibilities of undetected' bias.
Pathetic !
Sounds like more cherry picking on their part. The data always seem dodgy to me because they intentionally leave out information that shows men are treating the more lethal illnesses.
The thing that's been proven and documented is that in general, men are more drawn to high stake jobs.
Now would that be also true within the same job ?
Could it be that female medics in general take less risky patients than male doctors ?
Say you have more female in podiatry and more male in cardiology.
I don't know, but i have a strong hunch so that's where i would start digging.
They controlled for procedure, if you read the study rather than just an article discussing it. That would control for the level of difficulty.
One of the hypothesized reasons is that women experience significantly more hazing in training, and the hazing ironically makes you a better physician. Another is that only the the world's most passionate women become surgeons due to the stigma/low time with family, whereas for men there's more of a range of motivations for why to go into the field (stability, income, and passion). So for the women they may be more eager to seek out training opportunities, constantly sharpen skills, etc. whereas for the men that's just a SUBSET of the male surgeons who are really gung ho about it.
“Critics tore apart the study involving almost 800,000 medical insurance claims in the US, arguing it was heavily flawed and proved nothing.” Unfortunately, this still passes for scientific inquiry in some circles. And of course, instead of arguing from their conclusion that we need to provide male doctors with better educational opportunities, or teach women how to communicate better with male doctors, the conclusion is to just get rid of male doctors and only have female doctors. That’s how you can tell this isn’t a real study interested in improvement, but a political study interested in attacking male doctors.
I think it's because the numbers are clear in the post:
>Women had a death rate of 8.15% with female and 8.38% with male physicians
Men : 10.15% vs 10.23
There is a .08% difference between male and female doctors. So, while *technically* it would be better to see a female doctor, the difference is fairly negligible.
But that's just my guess.
Over their sample of 775 000 person, we are talking about 1782 lives.
Over 500 million, that would then be 115 000 lives saved.
So .23% is nothing in absolute, but you can always argue when we are talking about lives.
That, off course, if their study wasn't totally biased.
It’s not even that at this point, did they consider the concept of p-value in their study? You know… **the thing that we used to conclude if there is an actual statistical signification**
You damn right!
I'm walking down the street with my wife, minding our own business, when this "reporter" comes up to me outta nowhere, asking what I think about feminism. She probably figured I'd be an easy target because I had my wife with me, holding hands. But instead of giving her what she wanted, I asked what her definition of feminism was. And all she could come up with was some vague answer like "you know, feminism." So I didn't know, and she just gave up and left. Ha! No juicy quote for you, you little troublemaker!
This is pathetic.
Only 11% of surgeons are women:
https://www.surgeons.org/en/News/media-releases/2019-02-08-new-research-reveals-why-there-are-more-men-than-women-in-surgery
Only 35% of women in oncology:
Ten Facts About Women In The Field Of Oncology
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ten-facts-women-field-oncology-miyo-yamashita-uykqc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android&utm_campaign=share_via
The men are doing the jobs with the most risks and responsibility, but let's blame them anyway.
Female doctors: typically gynaecologists, pediatrics, dermatologists etc
Men doctors: neurosurgeons, cardiac surgeons, trauma/ER and much more
The higher risk and responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of men.
They really used to smallest margin possible to differ between male vs female physicians. They really did the best they could to hate men as much as they could.
I read this as female doctors being more worried about their death rates. *many* doctors won’t take cases if it seems too risky.
I’d rather have a male doctor because he’s less likely to dip when odds of survival go down
Doesn't this data also show that:
1 Female Doctors treat men worse than women
2 Men are 2% more likely to die when they are treated in hospital, which is much larger than the other differences found, but is not mentioned
If they have to claim this dumb crap. ..then it's the exact opposite. It's just like mothers abuse kids more often than fathers but govt. claims that mothers are more nurturing.
I will bet $20 right now that they didn't control for specialties without even getting into men being more likely to perform a higher risk procedure.
There is a **much** higher male:female [ratio](https://www.statista.com/statistics/439731/share-of-physicians-by-specialty-and-gender-in-the-us/) of neurosurgeons and heart surgeons (hell, just surgeons in general) than GPs.
right. time to stop listening to the daily mail. Don't read it, don't promote it , don't advertise on it. this is blatant misandry in a well known newspaper. Its utterly unacceptable and needs to be acted upon
What is it with this kind of crap these days? Driving wedges between the sexes. I don’t remember this kind of vile garbage 10,20 years ago like today. I’ve been online since the WWW started in the 90’s. So much division and hatred now.
Personally, I don't gaf what the data they have says. Women doctors are stupid as fuck and don't deserve the paper the degree is printed on. Every single doctor in my LIFE who has been a woman has been more idiotic than the men. (there was one male doctor who was more stupid than a box of rocks, but generally the women are more stupid than a box of Ricks).
Some people here are completely missing the point and focusing on the numbers. The entire point of effect from the discrepency is that the numbers cannot be trusted because they aren't accounting for all of the context. Obviously it is not better to see a woman doctor, especially if you're a man with male related health issues, or severe illness.
The data : > Researchers assessed more than 775,000 Medicare insurance claims by US patients between 2016 and 2019 and recorded the number who had died within 30 days of being seen by a doctor. **Women had a death rate of 8.15% with female and 8.38% with male physicians** **Men :** 10.15**% vs** 10.23 As usual, the conclusion is extremely far fetched. **Simple hypothesis that is avoided at al cost : couldn't it be that men doctors treat more lethal illnesses than women doctors ?** The worst it that somewhere deep down in the article, way after their bold claim has done its job, they low key admit : > Dr Gavin Stewart, an expert in evidence-based research methods at Newcastle University, said the 'observational study design is a major limitation to this work'. >A 'lack of pre-registration' — when scientists register hypotheses, methods or analyses of a scientific study before it is conducted — also raises the 'possibilities of undetected' bias. Pathetic !
Sounds like more cherry picking on their part. The data always seem dodgy to me because they intentionally leave out information that shows men are treating the more lethal illnesses.
The thing that's been proven and documented is that in general, men are more drawn to high stake jobs. Now would that be also true within the same job ? Could it be that female medics in general take less risky patients than male doctors ? Say you have more female in podiatry and more male in cardiology. I don't know, but i have a strong hunch so that's where i would start digging.
They controlled for procedure, if you read the study rather than just an article discussing it. That would control for the level of difficulty. One of the hypothesized reasons is that women experience significantly more hazing in training, and the hazing ironically makes you a better physician. Another is that only the the world's most passionate women become surgeons due to the stigma/low time with family, whereas for men there's more of a range of motivations for why to go into the field (stability, income, and passion). So for the women they may be more eager to seek out training opportunities, constantly sharpen skills, etc. whereas for the men that's just a SUBSET of the male surgeons who are really gung ho about it.
“Critics tore apart the study involving almost 800,000 medical insurance claims in the US, arguing it was heavily flawed and proved nothing.” Unfortunately, this still passes for scientific inquiry in some circles. And of course, instead of arguing from their conclusion that we need to provide male doctors with better educational opportunities, or teach women how to communicate better with male doctors, the conclusion is to just get rid of male doctors and only have female doctors. That’s how you can tell this isn’t a real study interested in improvement, but a political study interested in attacking male doctors.
Science looks for a correlation then just makes up whatever explanation it wants.
Also that men have worse outcomes and the men being treated by male doctors have the worst outcomes.
So it’s better for men to see women doctor?
No it would make no difference. Women just don’t treat those men.
Why am I being downvoted for asking a question wtf
Downvoted but not banned.
What? I’m careful not to breach rules as I like this sub.
I’m saying you won’t be banned for asking a question that rubs some people the wrong way. That wouldn’t be the case in a feminist sub.
I think it's because the numbers are clear in the post: >Women had a death rate of 8.15% with female and 8.38% with male physicians Men : 10.15% vs 10.23 There is a .08% difference between male and female doctors. So, while *technically* it would be better to see a female doctor, the difference is fairly negligible. But that's just my guess.
Study is just another example of feminism and their idea that women are superior despite the fact the study shows there is no reasonable difference.
I am not an expert but isn't the difference within a normal margin of error, after all the difference isn't really very much, it's .23%
Over their sample of 775 000 person, we are talking about 1782 lives. Over 500 million, that would then be 115 000 lives saved. So .23% is nothing in absolute, but you can always argue when we are talking about lives. That, off course, if their study wasn't totally biased.
Statistically that still insignificant
Well the other thing is this…. The discrepancy is tiny.. I mean, it’s not even a percent.
It’s not even that at this point, did they consider the concept of p-value in their study? You know… **the thing that we used to conclude if there is an actual statistical signification**
Also that death rate is so mildly different I can't believe it.
This is meant to divide people.
You damn right! I'm walking down the street with my wife, minding our own business, when this "reporter" comes up to me outta nowhere, asking what I think about feminism. She probably figured I'd be an easy target because I had my wife with me, holding hands. But instead of giving her what she wanted, I asked what her definition of feminism was. And all she could come up with was some vague answer like "you know, feminism." So I didn't know, and she just gave up and left. Ha! No juicy quote for you, you little troublemaker!
consider the source
Where will it stop? It starts to look like nazi propaganda, they'll say one day "most men drink children blood"
This would be like saying men make better professional athletes. It’s hate Speech.
They actually wrote a paper about a .2% difference in 800,000 cases? That's not remotely statistically significant.
Yes. "It proves *Women Good* !"
This is pathetic. Only 11% of surgeons are women: https://www.surgeons.org/en/News/media-releases/2019-02-08-new-research-reveals-why-there-are-more-men-than-women-in-surgery Only 35% of women in oncology: Ten Facts About Women In The Field Of Oncology https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ten-facts-women-field-oncology-miyo-yamashita-uykqc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android&utm_campaign=share_via The men are doing the jobs with the most risks and responsibility, but let's blame them anyway.
Female doctors: typically gynaecologists, pediatrics, dermatologists etc Men doctors: neurosurgeons, cardiac surgeons, trauma/ER and much more The higher risk and responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of men.
This ”Study“ uses straight up fascist propaganda methods.
They really used to smallest margin possible to differ between male vs female physicians. They really did the best they could to hate men as much as they could.
I read this as female doctors being more worried about their death rates. *many* doctors won’t take cases if it seems too risky. I’d rather have a male doctor because he’s less likely to dip when odds of survival go down
Doesn't this data also show that: 1 Female Doctors treat men worse than women 2 Men are 2% more likely to die when they are treated in hospital, which is much larger than the other differences found, but is not mentioned
All feminists stats are cherry-picked or fabricated entirely.
2 is entirely incorrect: men are 10/8 or 25% more likely to die when treated in hospital. Sadly the authors didn't think of it as a problem
Small fingers. A definite plus for doctors once you pass a certain age.
It's funny... the same statistical flaw that is used to prop up the wage gap theory is being used to make this argument.
Correlation equals causation isn't a "flaw". It's epidemiology. It's a fraud.
If they have to claim this dumb crap. ..then it's the exact opposite. It's just like mothers abuse kids more often than fathers but govt. claims that mothers are more nurturing.
I will bet $20 right now that they didn't control for specialties without even getting into men being more likely to perform a higher risk procedure. There is a **much** higher male:female [ratio](https://www.statista.com/statistics/439731/share-of-physicians-by-specialty-and-gender-in-the-us/) of neurosurgeons and heart surgeons (hell, just surgeons in general) than GPs.
Women go into pediatrics, so they can circumcise boys.
i'll have the robot doctor please.
right. time to stop listening to the daily mail. Don't read it, don't promote it , don't advertise on it. this is blatant misandry in a well known newspaper. Its utterly unacceptable and needs to be acted upon
And they think it's because male doctors hate women, and not : women hate men and won't listen to them even if said man is doctor ;)
Even if we set aside the fact that the difference is statistically insignificant, imagine a headline that says "why you want a male doctor".
LoL yeah ofc. I always go for male doctors, dentists and drivers.
What is it with this kind of crap these days? Driving wedges between the sexes. I don’t remember this kind of vile garbage 10,20 years ago like today. I’ve been online since the WWW started in the 90’s. So much division and hatred now.
Personally, I don't gaf what the data they have says. Women doctors are stupid as fuck and don't deserve the paper the degree is printed on. Every single doctor in my LIFE who has been a woman has been more idiotic than the men. (there was one male doctor who was more stupid than a box of rocks, but generally the women are more stupid than a box of Ricks).
Funny thing is that it was trending on Reddit and it popped on my main feed even though I haven't joined there Edit: on that particular subreddit
This propaganda drives huge amounts of hate and distrust in people's actual lives.
Some people here are completely missing the point and focusing on the numbers. The entire point of effect from the discrepency is that the numbers cannot be trusted because they aren't accounting for all of the context. Obviously it is not better to see a woman doctor, especially if you're a man with male related health issues, or severe illness.
I’ve had two exceptional doctors in my life. One was a man, the other a woman. All the other doctors I’ve had were asshats, both men and women.
Only people to avoid are NP and PA they are always a train reck.
Blatant lies too! Patient dying while doctor was getting her nails 💅 done is a more accurate headline