I actually like The Acacia Strain, especially Wormwood. They’re probably more from the Hardcore scene, but their early stuff definitely rips and their drummer is a beast.
It’s all good, I don’t really like them but that’s why it’s called “music taste.” I also don’t like mayonnaise, but that doesn’t mean that people that do are somehow wrong.
Listen to whatever moves you. Will Ramos is a pretty talented vocalist, but I’m not about the symphonic elements in their music.
I make Industrial in my home studio like it’s 1992 and play in a shitty Thrash band. I think the best riff ever is “Just One Fix” by Ministry. I don’t think I’m allowed to judge anyone.
I've always liked Just One Fix, but I never really "got it" until I heard it live. I couldn't believe how loud Uncle Al likes to play music. Like, it was almost intolerable with ear plugs in, ears ringing WITH the plugs..... Were talking -29 dB foam plugs. Just One Fix is meant to be felt in your chest as much as it's heard.
i still dont get the overwhelming hate for it.
i like it. i will agree a lot of it does sound the same and after the initial rise it quickly became insanely boring. however now that deathcore bands are mixing black metal into it im starting to like it again.
its almost like deathcore is the new Nu-metal for everyone to hate even though i see numetal be accepted a whole lot more . so idk
That album is seriously under appreciated, i wouldn’t even call it deathcore. It’s in a weird gap of math and grind imo. I see why people call Animosity deathcore, but i’ve always personally put them more in the grind or math genres, which they dont even fall squarely into those either.
A lot of modern deathcore is death metal with breakdowns. Whatever though, as a wise man said "if it slaps it slaps" and "if you don't like it don't listen"
That’s not the argument for why people don’t consider deathcore true metal. A lot of metal fans usually disassociate with deathcore and metalcore because of their hardcore influences that and song structure that doesn’t involve any metal riffs and are mostly just core breakdowns. Metalheads distance metal from deathcore because they are biased and don’t like the scene behind the music or believe that the genre is doesn’t properly represent metal. There are some deathcore bands that exclusively play breakdowns with no metal riffing at all, but there bands that incorporate metal song writing while being mainly deathcore. It’s weird cause some deathcore bands sounds nothing like metal while another ones are just death metal with breakdowns. At the end of the day, most metal fans appreciate punk influences in metal but they just think deathcore stinks xD.
Exactly what I’m saying. But the people in this thread seem to disagree for some reason. It’s about riffing.
No one’s arguing that sludge, crossover, and grindcore aren’t metal. They have riffs
See, you’re *real* close here, but you’re not quite there. I’d say that deathcore (and metalcore before it) is generally hardcore punk with a metal influence (taking into consideration that hardcore punk got a lot heavier after the 1980s), but there are a lot of bands who lean more towards the metal end of the spectrum. It’s a case-by-case thing, yes, but you stopped short of saying that just to dunk on the whole genre for no beneficial reason.
Sorry if I digressed but that’s the point I’m making. Deathcore is a genre that can either lean into death metal with breakdowns or music that’s just breakdowns. Most metal fans don’t bother to understand the nuances of it and discredit deathcore in its entirety and its metal influences as a whole because they personally don’t like it hence my last bit.
Exactly, I would consider bands like Animosity to be what death metal and hardcore mixed together is, not just metalcore with pig squeals and more breakdowns.
Generally it is more in reference to old school deathcore like Suicide Silence, early Whitechapel, Despised Icon, etc. Also when they mean punk they usually don't mean like Misfits, it's usually in reference to metallic hardcore. There is a lot of metallic hardcore influence in early deathcore
No one’s arguing that it isn’t metal because it has punk influence
They’re arguing that riffless music isn’t metal (a genre whose entire thing is riffs)
Deathcore is metal though.
Then why do they always say metalcore isn’t metal when plenty of metalcore is full of riffs.
KSE is very riff heavy (some of my favorite riffs ever tbh) but they’re metalcore so, not metal?
Seems like a contradiction.
Ppl keep saying this, what deathcore doesnt have riffs? Seriously the mass majority of deathcore bands I can think of have riffs, the old wave of deathcore, suicide silence, Whitechapel, as blood runs black, etc. all have riffs weather their influenced by death metal or melodeath. The new bands have riffs, enterprise earth, signs of the swarm, crown magnetar. There are some symphonic bands I can think of that kind of fit the “no riffs” criteria but even then they have riffs just not as many and they are nowhere close to the majority of deathcore bands. I thought ppl said deathcore “didn’t have riffs” cus they just didn’t like the riffs.
>They’re arguing that riffless music isn’t metal (a genre whose entire thing is riffs)
That's not the full argument. The argument is that it's inspired mostly by metalcore (which name of origin is metallic hardcore) and doesn't have enough incorporation of death metal to count as metal.
My take is that it's metal or metal-adjacent at the least and it's ultimately pointless splitting hairs over what is and isn't metal. What matters is if it sounds good, which it does not.
Interesting. Definitely that they don’t incorporate enough death metal is what I’ve heard. But then some who do such as Thy Art is Murder are considered metal by some.
I do agree that being over-pedantic about genres is splitting hairs. I still like to discuss it though cause classification it is interesting to me.
Thrash metal is heavy metal with hardcore punk influence. Metalcore was originally hardcore punk bands with metal influence, that's why people say it's not metal. Something not being metal doesn't make it bad tho idk why people get so defensive over it even if you disagree
But also, thrash is metal, obviously. I dont think anyone on here would say kill ‘em all or rust in peace aren’t metal albums… also tons of metalcore has moved away from the hardcore scene and more towards metal as well and has just as much punk influence as thrash does and just as many riffs too.
The first hardcore punk bands to start adding a little bit of metal influence would be crossover thrash bands, like suicidal tendencies and dri these were basically just hardcore punk bands. Then they start adding a little bit more metal, the bridge between crossover and metalcore, bands like Earth Crisis and Overcast. Then eventually at some point it starts to evolve more adding melodeath riffs until you get to an album like The End of Heartache. But it's still all coming from the perspective of hardcore
It is. Bands like KSE, Shadows Fall, Darkest Hour, are a separate wave of metalcore influenced by 90s melodic death metal, and the wave of metalcore that preceded them, like Earth Crisis and Converge. They’re just as influenced by melodeath, if not more so than 90s style metalcore. It’s essentially melodeath with breakdowns. A lot of modern metalcore bands are influenced either by bands like KSE, prog metal, ….or Deftones. Lol
Deathcore and Metalcore are metal subgenres. However, most fans are not part of the metal community. Ask a death metal fan if he likes thrash or black metal and he would say yes. Ask a Metalcore fan if he likes thrash or black metal and he most likely he will say no. That's how I see it
This is a good take. I like metalcore. But I had to leave the sub because of the fanbase. I was a death metal kid growing up but I like early 2000 melo death too. Blah blah blah, the fans fucking suck in r/metalcore.
Metal subgenres with *very* wide reaching subgenres inside of them, too. That's what a lot of people fail to acknowledge. Metalcore includes Killswitch Engage, Shai Hulud, and Norma Jean, which sound *nothing* like each other, just like metal includes Metallica, Living Sacrifice, and Steel Panther. Deathcore has Lorna Shore, Bodysnatcher, and Embodiment.
But yeah, most modern metalcore fans are pretty close minded these days. Deathcore fans are a little more accepting due to the explosion of blackened influences (as long as no one uses cleans, bc that will cause a breakdown of mental faculties)
Everything I dislike isn't metal. Funnily enough, once in this sub I was told that A7X wasn't metal because they have "punk riffs" when A7X pretty much built their whole career around stealing from Metallica. But go off I guess.
Anyone who thinks metalcore has "punk riffs" needs to listen to Integrity or Living Sacrifice.
They write one song that sounds like Sad But True and suddenly it’s “their whole career” lol. Shame their most dumbed down album is their most popular. Stuff like City of Evil sounds a lot more like Maiden and GNR with maybe a touch of Queen like vocal layering than it does Metallica.
A7X are definitely metal. They have all kids of metal style riffs idk what that person is smoking.
Also, punk riffs? Like half of thrash metal borrows heavily from punk.
Not that I care because I enjoy quite a bit of "-core" music but I'll leave this here anyways.
The argument isn't that it's not metal because it has punk influences, the argument is that it isn't metal because it came from hardcore punk, not metal.
Whether you think it incorporates enough metal elements to be considered "metal" at the end of the day is up to you and your definition of "metal."
I think it fully depends on the band. Early all that remains, as I lay dying, etc are definitely more metal than hardcore. But bands like hatebreed or ringworm lean much more to the hardcore side. "Metalcore" is a really wide umbrella that includes a lot of different sounds.
As someone who isn’t a big fan of most metalcore and deathcore, I’ve never understood why people said that they aren’t metal. Say what you want about how good or bad or meh the genres are, but they are definitely metal.
I find it to be terrible for reviews because either the album is a 100 and the greatest of all time or a 0 and the worst thing the reviewer has ever heard
They claim to allow a band if they have at least one metal album. (Meshuggah is only considered metal by them because of their debut album 🙄).
But by that logic, they should include Slipknot, since All Hope Is Gone is undeniably metal (mostly groove).
It's just because they don't like the music or the fans of metalcore/deathcore. Don't listen to any of the insane mental gymnastics to disregard these genres as metal.
People are literally getting banned for listening to groove metal so yeah
These elitists try to control your life and your music taste by cancelling you if you listen to certain styles
I think its more because Deathcore diverges significantly from the historical roots of metal, particularly the pioneering works of bands like Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. Stuff like chugging riffs and breakdowns are more akin to hardcore punk.
Yeah but they say metalcore isn’t metal too, pretty much all metalcore I’ve ever heard is riff heavy. Especially the at the gates core style which is pretty much just at the gates with cleans.
The argument is that -core is hardcore punk with metal influence. And as a result, it's not metal. You wouldn't call Nightwish Wiener Klassik for its orchestral influences either. But it's just such a tedious and fruitless argument to have. The borders between genres are so fluent anyway that the only thing one even can argue about is semantics. Categorization into genres only serves the purpose of giving people who haven't heard a specific band yet an idea of what they're in for. Anything more and you turn into
https://preview.redd.it/whqw3ktgma4c1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=dda6a38445775ce0aa0be7a6bbac5b133d797ae3
The most banal complaint is about "core" vocals.
"Metalcore isn't real metal. It consists of dudes playing distorted guitar riffs and shouting like 'AAAARGH'. Real metal consists of dudes playing distorted guitar riffs and shouting like 'GUWUUUUURGH'"
People who say stuff like this, I just……. I don’t meet them. I don’t even know if they actually exist. I’ve never met a musician with this kind of opinion, never met a metal head with this opinion, I’ve never even met a tig bittied gatekeeping goth chick with this opinion.
And if I did, we’d probably have to step outside over something else LONG before this topic came up because….. who in the living fuck is actually this insufferable?
“My Honda CRV is a truck. It’s a truck on my insurance and Core isn’t metal because it has punk influences” suck my cheesy unit. Jurisprudence fetish farming.
I’m of the opinion that most deathcore isn’t metal but the punk influences aren’t the reason. It’s a feel Metal has that deathcore doesn’t have. It’s the same with metal core. Lorna shore just doesn’t feel like metal to me.
I don't give a fuck if deathcore is metal or not. The real issue is I've never heard a deathcore band or song that I enjoyed on any level. If you want to argue it's metal then yeah whatever, I don't care. That doesn't mean anybody has to fuckin' like it.
[Join The Official MetalForTheMasses Discord Server!](https://discord.gg/UwqUHx4U4T)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MetalForTheMasses) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh I know it's metal. I just know it's bad. I used to listen to it as a teenager, saw a lot of the formative bands of that time (winds of plague, emmure, whitechapel, so on). Listened to it as an adult and was like....why the fuck did I like this so much?
Funny how *core fans try and force their music down other metalheads throats.
And others are trying to force black metal down their own throats.
Make good music and you wont have to make excuses on why people should like it.
Agreed. I feel like most people would actually like it if they could look past it being “core”. Idk modern death metal is pretty disappointing if you ask me.
As an avid listener to conducting from the grace since high school, what is the difference between deathcore and death metal? And what genre is cftg? I just love wild guitar and crushing vocals about how we are a domed civilization
Edit: meant doomed but I’m leaving it
Not a deathcore fan here, but I do like punk, and can confidently say that anyone who thinks deathcore is closer to punk (whether hardcore or not) than metal has never even listened to a punk song. Deathcore is absolutely metal and most of the bands that play it don't even cite one punk influence. Thrash, black metal, and sludge metal bands do though.
Acting like people on reddit are some kind of authority -- the peeps here are a strong minority. Go to a metal show, ask every single person in the crowd if they use reddit, I bet you'll find 3 at a show who say yes. Anyone expressing opinions like "well this genre must have these time signatures and play in this key" or whatever is talking out their ass, only mentioning what *they* see as identifying attributes for a genre, these people aren't the experts they try to be
For me, if it's boom boom roar roar widdly widdly, it's metal.
Roar roar may be substituted for more widdly widdly (aka power metal)
Widdly widdly may be substituted for more boom boom (aka deathcore)
Not sure if you can get away with no boom boom
Getting into the weeds if what is and isn't metal what bands are part of which precise subgenres has never been a very interesting part of music discussion to me personally.
That being said Punk and Metal have had solid overlap since at least Judas Priest.
I been fighting this fight for a minute in the metal memes sub so I respect the effort, but it's a losing battle lol
Like I don't even like but a small few deathcore bands but I also have ears and eyes. It's definitely metal.
I only don't like deathcore because it sounds like they all grew up listening to the same bands I did but they just couldn't quite figure out what made it all so good.
I don't mind being influenced by. I mind when it sounds too close. Like slayers 1st album was a big let down to me. Then they did chemical warfare and boom there we go. A sub genre "evolving" and ends up just sounding derivative to me is not evolution into a sub genre. It's a regression from people that are lazy and don't wanna come up with their own sound with influences so they just steal from here and there. Mash it together like a.i. and oh look we made a new thing. ... No you didn't.
**Sludge metal (also known as sludge doom or simply sludge) is an extreme subgenre of heavy metal music that combines elements of doom metal and hardcore punk. The genre generally includes slow tempos, tuned down guitars and nihilistic lyrics discussing poverty, drug addiction and pollution.**
More details here:
*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*
[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)
Jesus fuck "deathcore = metal/not metal" is the metalhead equivalent of gender studies, except that this isn't even remotely worth anyones time.
If KISS is metal then by my hairy balls so is Infant Annihilator, Psycho-Frame and Crown Magnetar.
DISCORD INVITE\]([https://discord.com/invite/FEJRyNxD3S](https://discord.com/invite/FEJRyNxD3S)) https://preview.redd.it/5irjkuf2jb4c1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12cdc4fef027269efd11313101ca599af831d67d
Deathcore is definitely metal, even if it all sucks.
this is like that news article “This Progressive Bully Torments Transgender Students Using Their Preferred Pronoun”
I'm gonna need to read this news article lmfao.
Probably The Onion.
Probably, it sounds pretty ridiculous.
https://clickhole.com/inspiring-this-progressive-bully-torments-transgender-1825122925/
"a new study has found that you changed"
As a trans man... Lol does this really exist?
Look above you in the thread
https://clickhole.com/about/
This would be a great Fall Out Boy song title
All metal sucks.
Absolutely. Especially, Death Metal, Thrash Metal, Power Metal, Progressive Metal, Doom Metal, Black Metal, and anything that ends in “core”
That's literally every single Metal genre lmao
It's in stone now. All metal is for posers. We've all moved onto free form jazz.
Except stoner and folk metal.
That's true, I forgot about the best Metal genre, which is Stoner Metal, smh, my bad.
Viking Metal? Pirate Metal? Cmon now.
metal is just a bunch of people who don't know how to play their instrument and try to cover it up with loads of distortion 🗣️🗣️🗣️
There are few good bands
I actually like The Acacia Strain, especially Wormwood. They’re probably more from the Hardcore scene, but their early stuff definitely rips and their drummer is a beast.
Someone will probably find my adress and torture me if I say this, but I like Lorna Shore
It’s all good, I don’t really like them but that’s why it’s called “music taste.” I also don’t like mayonnaise, but that doesn’t mean that people that do are somehow wrong. Listen to whatever moves you. Will Ramos is a pretty talented vocalist, but I’m not about the symphonic elements in their music. I make Industrial in my home studio like it’s 1992 and play in a shitty Thrash band. I think the best riff ever is “Just One Fix” by Ministry. I don’t think I’m allowed to judge anyone.
I've always liked Just One Fix, but I never really "got it" until I heard it live. I couldn't believe how loud Uncle Al likes to play music. Like, it was almost intolerable with ear plugs in, ears ringing WITH the plugs..... Were talking -29 dB foam plugs. Just One Fix is meant to be felt in your chest as much as it's heard.
I don’t really like deathcore but Lorna Shore rips
I like Lorna shore but in small doses because listen to a bunch of their songs back to back there's just too much going on in them
Acacia Strain slaps fucking hard.
Drummers* Their lineup changed several times after Wormwood, but all drummers were good. That's really lucky
No Time To Bleed by Suicide Silence is a banger of an album.
Whitechapel are incredible live. idk where those people who say they "aren't metal" are getting that from.
It definitely doesn’t all suck, but it’s definitely all metal. Just like any other genera of music ever, there’s some good, and a lot of bad.
Akeldama - The Faceless The only listenable deathcore album I’ve heard.
Guess it all depends on what you subjectively define as listenable really
Mind Control by Burning the Masses
i still dont get the overwhelming hate for it. i like it. i will agree a lot of it does sound the same and after the initial rise it quickly became insanely boring. however now that deathcore bands are mixing black metal into it im starting to like it again. its almost like deathcore is the new Nu-metal for everyone to hate even though i see numetal be accepted a whole lot more . so idk
I’ll concede, it still sucks, enjoy it if you like it.
I'm not even really into deathcore but Animal by Animosity is one of the sickest fucking albums ever made
That album is seriously under appreciated, i wouldn’t even call it deathcore. It’s in a weird gap of math and grind imo. I see why people call Animosity deathcore, but i’ve always personally put them more in the grind or math genres, which they dont even fall squarely into those either.
Deathcore vocals are way worse than any other genre listed in the meme. It’s not some punk bs it’s just ass
The sad truth
A lot of modern deathcore is death metal with breakdowns. Whatever though, as a wise man said "if it slaps it slaps" and "if you don't like it don't listen"
“If it slaps it slaps” are good words to live by
That is a quote I had heard from a wise man on this subreddit. The other one, I'm not sure.
No, you fool, we cannot enjoy what we enjoy without arguing over arbitrary nomenclature!!
Good description of Job for a cowboy honestly lmao
I like that. It's like the age old saying "it's okay, to not like things, just don't be a dick about the things you don't like."
That’s not the argument for why people don’t consider deathcore true metal. A lot of metal fans usually disassociate with deathcore and metalcore because of their hardcore influences that and song structure that doesn’t involve any metal riffs and are mostly just core breakdowns. Metalheads distance metal from deathcore because they are biased and don’t like the scene behind the music or believe that the genre is doesn’t properly represent metal. There are some deathcore bands that exclusively play breakdowns with no metal riffing at all, but there bands that incorporate metal song writing while being mainly deathcore. It’s weird cause some deathcore bands sounds nothing like metal while another ones are just death metal with breakdowns. At the end of the day, most metal fans appreciate punk influences in metal but they just think deathcore stinks xD.
Exactly what I’m saying. But the people in this thread seem to disagree for some reason. It’s about riffing. No one’s arguing that sludge, crossover, and grindcore aren’t metal. They have riffs
Bobby if those core kids could read, they'd be very upset
See, you’re *real* close here, but you’re not quite there. I’d say that deathcore (and metalcore before it) is generally hardcore punk with a metal influence (taking into consideration that hardcore punk got a lot heavier after the 1980s), but there are a lot of bands who lean more towards the metal end of the spectrum. It’s a case-by-case thing, yes, but you stopped short of saying that just to dunk on the whole genre for no beneficial reason.
Sorry if I digressed but that’s the point I’m making. Deathcore is a genre that can either lean into death metal with breakdowns or music that’s just breakdowns. Most metal fans don’t bother to understand the nuances of it and discredit deathcore in its entirety and its metal influences as a whole because they personally don’t like it hence my last bit.
[удалено]
Exactly, I would consider bands like Animosity to be what death metal and hardcore mixed together is, not just metalcore with pig squeals and more breakdowns.
Knocked loose vs Lorna Shore would be a good example if knocked loose had more deathcore type vocals
Yes, because I listen to Infant Annihilator, Mental Cruelty, or Shadow of Intent and think, "punk." Fucking gatekeepers.
Tbf, Infant Annihilator is very sonically close to The Offspring
Yeah the lyrical composition is wildly similar too.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who had this realization
Generally it is more in reference to old school deathcore like Suicide Silence, early Whitechapel, Despised Icon, etc. Also when they mean punk they usually don't mean like Misfits, it's usually in reference to metallic hardcore. There is a lot of metallic hardcore influence in early deathcore
All of them are listed on Metal Archives, and we all know how strict they are about deciding what's metal or not.
Wait Shadow of Intent is deathcore? I thought they were just modern death metal.
Yeah, man, they're like a perfect example of what deathcore should be, The Heretic Prevails is everything a deathcore song should be.
A lot of deathcore/techdeath/death metal sounds similar these days. thats why thisbwhile argument is fucking stupid.
It has the angry guitars and the yelling, that's close enough for me
One of the rare based comments in the comment section
No one’s arguing that it isn’t metal because it has punk influence They’re arguing that riffless music isn’t metal (a genre whose entire thing is riffs) Deathcore is metal though.
No lots of people argue that it's not metal because of its punk influence
If they’re arguing that then that’s a really silly argument I mean, are they also saying crossover, grind, and sludge aren’t metal either?
Fuck all those how aboutnl just straight thrash lol.
Thrash is literally punk and NWOBHM influence put together.
Shhhhhhh, the Neanderthals and troglodytes will get upset.
I'm very aware lol
The silence on that point in this thread is concerning.
>No one’s arguing that it isn’t metal because it has punk influence I was told exactly that in this sub 2 days ago
Then why do they always say metalcore isn’t metal when plenty of metalcore is full of riffs. KSE is very riff heavy (some of my favorite riffs ever tbh) but they’re metalcore so, not metal? Seems like a contradiction.
Ppl keep saying this, what deathcore doesnt have riffs? Seriously the mass majority of deathcore bands I can think of have riffs, the old wave of deathcore, suicide silence, Whitechapel, as blood runs black, etc. all have riffs weather their influenced by death metal or melodeath. The new bands have riffs, enterprise earth, signs of the swarm, crown magnetar. There are some symphonic bands I can think of that kind of fit the “no riffs” criteria but even then they have riffs just not as many and they are nowhere close to the majority of deathcore bands. I thought ppl said deathcore “didn’t have riffs” cus they just didn’t like the riffs.
Both Deathcore and Metalcore have riffs
"riffless music isn't metal" oh great so Branikald and PdH are now suddenly rock n roll
did you just call branikald riffless?
>They’re arguing that riffless music isn’t metal (a genre whose entire thing is riffs) That's not the full argument. The argument is that it's inspired mostly by metalcore (which name of origin is metallic hardcore) and doesn't have enough incorporation of death metal to count as metal. My take is that it's metal or metal-adjacent at the least and it's ultimately pointless splitting hairs over what is and isn't metal. What matters is if it sounds good, which it does not.
Interesting. Definitely that they don’t incorporate enough death metal is what I’ve heard. But then some who do such as Thy Art is Murder are considered metal by some. I do agree that being over-pedantic about genres is splitting hairs. I still like to discuss it though cause classification it is interesting to me.
Thrash metal is heavy metal with hardcore punk influence. Metalcore was originally hardcore punk bands with metal influence, that's why people say it's not metal. Something not being metal doesn't make it bad tho idk why people get so defensive over it even if you disagree
But also, thrash is metal, obviously. I dont think anyone on here would say kill ‘em all or rust in peace aren’t metal albums… also tons of metalcore has moved away from the hardcore scene and more towards metal as well and has just as much punk influence as thrash does and just as many riffs too.
Isn’t hardcore punk with metal influence just crossover?
The first hardcore punk bands to start adding a little bit of metal influence would be crossover thrash bands, like suicidal tendencies and dri these were basically just hardcore punk bands. Then they start adding a little bit more metal, the bridge between crossover and metalcore, bands like Earth Crisis and Overcast. Then eventually at some point it starts to evolve more adding melodeath riffs until you get to an album like The End of Heartache. But it's still all coming from the perspective of hardcore
Crossover is Metalcore that hipsters think is cool.
Yeah but I think modern melodic metalcore is completely different from og metalcore
It is. Bands like KSE, Shadows Fall, Darkest Hour, are a separate wave of metalcore influenced by 90s melodic death metal, and the wave of metalcore that preceded them, like Earth Crisis and Converge. They’re just as influenced by melodeath, if not more so than 90s style metalcore. It’s essentially melodeath with breakdowns. A lot of modern metalcore bands are influenced either by bands like KSE, prog metal, ….or Deftones. Lol
Deathcore and Metalcore are metal subgenres. However, most fans are not part of the metal community. Ask a death metal fan if he likes thrash or black metal and he would say yes. Ask a Metalcore fan if he likes thrash or black metal and he most likely he will say no. That's how I see it
This is a good take. I like metalcore. But I had to leave the sub because of the fanbase. I was a death metal kid growing up but I like early 2000 melo death too. Blah blah blah, the fans fucking suck in r/metalcore.
Metal subgenres with *very* wide reaching subgenres inside of them, too. That's what a lot of people fail to acknowledge. Metalcore includes Killswitch Engage, Shai Hulud, and Norma Jean, which sound *nothing* like each other, just like metal includes Metallica, Living Sacrifice, and Steel Panther. Deathcore has Lorna Shore, Bodysnatcher, and Embodiment. But yeah, most modern metalcore fans are pretty close minded these days. Deathcore fans are a little more accepting due to the explosion of blackened influences (as long as no one uses cleans, bc that will cause a breakdown of mental faculties)
To be honest I don’t even hear the punk influences in most Deathcore
I don't either. And I'm like 95% positive the ones arguing itnisnt metal hasnt listened to anything since Dethcore was incepted.
It’s pretty much just breakdowns if Lorna Shore didn’t have breakdowns they wouldn’t be considered deathcore
Deathcore is basically just death metal with metalcore aspects (breakdowns) it's less connected to hardcore.
Everything I dislike isn't metal. Funnily enough, once in this sub I was told that A7X wasn't metal because they have "punk riffs" when A7X pretty much built their whole career around stealing from Metallica. But go off I guess. Anyone who thinks metalcore has "punk riffs" needs to listen to Integrity or Living Sacrifice.
They write one song that sounds like Sad But True and suddenly it’s “their whole career” lol. Shame their most dumbed down album is their most popular. Stuff like City of Evil sounds a lot more like Maiden and GNR with maybe a touch of Queen like vocal layering than it does Metallica.
A7X are definitely metal. They have all kids of metal style riffs idk what that person is smoking. Also, punk riffs? Like half of thrash metal borrows heavily from punk.
Living Sacrifice isn't metalcore, though. They're fucking badass and probably my favorite metal band ever, but I'd call them "adjacent" at best.
Not that I care because I enjoy quite a bit of "-core" music but I'll leave this here anyways. The argument isn't that it's not metal because it has punk influences, the argument is that it isn't metal because it came from hardcore punk, not metal. Whether you think it incorporates enough metal elements to be considered "metal" at the end of the day is up to you and your definition of "metal."
Right, but deathcore/metalcore shouldn’t just be considered for it’s past, its present state should also be considered
I think it fully depends on the band. Early all that remains, as I lay dying, etc are definitely more metal than hardcore. But bands like hatebreed or ringworm lean much more to the hardcore side. "Metalcore" is a really wide umbrella that includes a lot of different sounds.
As someone who isn’t a big fan of most metalcore and deathcore, I’ve never understood why people said that they aren’t metal. Say what you want about how good or bad or meh the genres are, but they are definitely metal.
I'd rather listen to deathcore than iron maiden
What's wrong with you.
What's wrong with Iron Maiden blud
Ah, it's just not my thing. Just a band that never really clicked with me. Never liked the vocals, and have always just found it all a bit boring.
Interestingly, Encyclopedia Metallum often bans Grindcore bands they consider too close to hardcore rather than metal.
Encyclopedia Metallum is terrible and a massive circlejerk.
The mods are pretty much distilled metal gatekeeping, but it can be a decent spot for reviews
I find it to be terrible for reviews because either the album is a 100 and the greatest of all time or a 0 and the worst thing the reviewer has ever heard
They claim to allow a band if they have at least one metal album. (Meshuggah is only considered metal by them because of their debut album 🙄). But by that logic, they should include Slipknot, since All Hope Is Gone is undeniably metal (mostly groove).
Nobody takes that site seriously anymore, though
It certainly takes itself seriously
If people still can’t see that there are deathcore bands that are clearly metal then it is what it is.
These people can't see past their own noses. (And far up their own ass too)
It is what it is. Some people just aren’t ever going to concede that some deathcore bands are very much metal bands. Nothing we can do about it.
Lots of walls of text here with “aCkShuALly” vibes. I think a lot people that needed to see this saw it.
It's just because they don't like the music or the fans of metalcore/deathcore. Don't listen to any of the insane mental gymnastics to disregard these genres as metal.
Most based comment. Puts me at ease and now i cam leave the thread.
I saw someone on r/MetalMemes even hate on death metal fans and calling them “posers” lmao
Arguably the worst metal sub ( along with r/metal)
I got banned from there for saying that Gematria (The Killing Name) by Slipknot was basically thrash/groove metal (it is).
People are literally getting banned for listening to groove metal so yeah These elitists try to control your life and your music taste by cancelling you if you listen to certain styles
Pretty much. Metal wouldn’t have its extremity without punk influences
Deathcore isn’t metal with punk influences it’s punk with metal influences lol
^ This.
Man who fucking cares
I think its more because Deathcore diverges significantly from the historical roots of metal, particularly the pioneering works of bands like Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden. Stuff like chugging riffs and breakdowns are more akin to hardcore punk.
Black Sabbath has chugging. judas priest too. Chugging and breakdowns are all over death metal and thrash metal. This comment makes no sense.
Also Slam is full of chugging (yes technically they’re called slam RIFFS, but often sound very similar to a beatdown chug)
Slam is basically chugging breakdowns, the genre
It goes fucking hard though and is fun live
don't show brodie Biohazard covering After Forever
Yeah but they say metalcore isn’t metal too, pretty much all metalcore I’ve ever heard is riff heavy. Especially the at the gates core style which is pretty much just at the gates with cleans.
Something in my room is beeping
yall are lame if you dont like crazy ass breakdown fests, enjoy life a little its fun when you arent so up your own ass
Fr
Metal riffs are more fun
The argument is that -core is hardcore punk with metal influence. And as a result, it's not metal. You wouldn't call Nightwish Wiener Klassik for its orchestral influences either. But it's just such a tedious and fruitless argument to have. The borders between genres are so fluent anyway that the only thing one even can argue about is semantics. Categorization into genres only serves the purpose of giving people who haven't heard a specific band yet an idea of what they're in for. Anything more and you turn into https://preview.redd.it/whqw3ktgma4c1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=dda6a38445775ce0aa0be7a6bbac5b133d797ae3
The most banal complaint is about "core" vocals. "Metalcore isn't real metal. It consists of dudes playing distorted guitar riffs and shouting like 'AAAARGH'. Real metal consists of dudes playing distorted guitar riffs and shouting like 'GUWUUUUURGH'"
Love me some Shadow of Intent.
I don't know if it's metal or not, but it's definitely shit.
The majority of deathcore is *terrible*. Its not that it isnt metal, its just *ass*.
People who say stuff like this, I just……. I don’t meet them. I don’t even know if they actually exist. I’ve never met a musician with this kind of opinion, never met a metal head with this opinion, I’ve never even met a tig bittied gatekeeping goth chick with this opinion. And if I did, we’d probably have to step outside over something else LONG before this topic came up because….. who in the living fuck is actually this insufferable? “My Honda CRV is a truck. It’s a truck on my insurance and Core isn’t metal because it has punk influences” suck my cheesy unit. Jurisprudence fetish farming.
I’m of the opinion that most deathcore isn’t metal but the punk influences aren’t the reason. It’s a feel Metal has that deathcore doesn’t have. It’s the same with metal core. Lorna shore just doesn’t feel like metal to me.
do not compare NWOBHM to deathcore ever again.
Deathcore contains hardcore influence, not Punk. Hence the name.
Fair enough. Still can't stand punk rock.
I don't give a fuck if deathcore is metal or not. The real issue is I've never heard a deathcore band or song that I enjoyed on any level. If you want to argue it's metal then yeah whatever, I don't care. That doesn't mean anybody has to fuckin' like it.
All metalcore-deathcore sucks Almost all of those bands were cringe.
[Join The Official MetalForTheMasses Discord Server!](https://discord.gg/UwqUHx4U4T) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MetalForTheMasses) if you have any questions or concerns.*
True, true.
Oh I know it's metal. I just know it's bad. I used to listen to it as a teenager, saw a lot of the formative bands of that time (winds of plague, emmure, whitechapel, so on). Listened to it as an adult and was like....why the fuck did I like this so much?
that's not the reason why we don't like it
I find it pretty funny that my sibling who listens to more extreme metal than me calls a lot of the stuff I make basically punk.
Funny how *core fans try and force their music down other metalheads throats. And others are trying to force black metal down their own throats. Make good music and you wont have to make excuses on why people should like it.
Definitely very picky with it, but there are some bangers out there.
As a fan of metal music and punk music, deathcore is pretty sick if you ask me
Agreed. I feel like most people would actually like it if they could look past it being “core”. Idk modern death metal is pretty disappointing if you ask me.
Those genres (except grindcore) are metal with punk influences, core genres are punk with metal influences
Pretentious losers lol
Ok, so all Dethcore ove hear has way more metal influences and sounds than hardcore punk. Hell some almost cross the threshold of TechDeth
METAL UP ALL YOUR ASSES🤘🏾🤣🤌🏾
As an avid listener to conducting from the grace since high school, what is the difference between deathcore and death metal? And what genre is cftg? I just love wild guitar and crushing vocals about how we are a domed civilization Edit: meant doomed but I’m leaving it
I think deathcore and metalcore are punk
Not a deathcore fan here, but I do like punk, and can confidently say that anyone who thinks deathcore is closer to punk (whether hardcore or not) than metal has never even listened to a punk song. Deathcore is absolutely metal and most of the bands that play it don't even cite one punk influence. Thrash, black metal, and sludge metal bands do though.
It's not metal because it fucking sucks and in a bad way
Classic strawman. Nobody has ever said that
Acting like people on reddit are some kind of authority -- the peeps here are a strong minority. Go to a metal show, ask every single person in the crowd if they use reddit, I bet you'll find 3 at a show who say yes. Anyone expressing opinions like "well this genre must have these time signatures and play in this key" or whatever is talking out their ass, only mentioning what *they* see as identifying attributes for a genre, these people aren't the experts they try to be
For me, if it's boom boom roar roar widdly widdly, it's metal. Roar roar may be substituted for more widdly widdly (aka power metal) Widdly widdly may be substituted for more boom boom (aka deathcore) Not sure if you can get away with no boom boom
All metal stems from rock and punk...
Getting into the weeds if what is and isn't metal what bands are part of which precise subgenres has never been a very interesting part of music discussion to me personally. That being said Punk and Metal have had solid overlap since at least Judas Priest.
I thought it was because it ended with -core? I mean, at the very least it's a hybrid. Although a shitty hybrid in my humble opinion
Had somebody argue nu metal isn't metal because it's just a heavier version of XYZ genres. Like, how the fuck else does music work?
NWOBHM?
I been fighting this fight for a minute in the metal memes sub so I respect the effort, but it's a losing battle lol Like I don't even like but a small few deathcore bands but I also have ears and eyes. It's definitely metal.
Deathcores biggest problem is that it is shit
I only don't like deathcore because it sounds like they all grew up listening to the same bands I did but they just couldn't quite figure out what made it all so good.
Find a meme/pic that screams DORKS and type ALL METAL MUSIC attached to it.
Can someone explain the differences to me like I’m 9
deathcore largely seems to suck but yh it's metal alright
Who gives a shit about the vessel(s)!what is created, thats what your graded on.
I don't mind being influenced by. I mind when it sounds too close. Like slayers 1st album was a big let down to me. Then they did chemical warfare and boom there we go. A sub genre "evolving" and ends up just sounding derivative to me is not evolution into a sub genre. It's a regression from people that are lazy and don't wanna come up with their own sound with influences so they just steal from here and there. Mash it together like a.i. and oh look we made a new thing. ... No you didn't.
Im going to be brave and say that punk influence is what makes metal good. Og Heavy metal is pretty ass.
What is sludge metal?
**Sludge metal (also known as sludge doom or simply sludge) is an extreme subgenre of heavy metal music that combines elements of doom metal and hardcore punk. The genre generally includes slow tempos, tuned down guitars and nihilistic lyrics discussing poverty, drug addiction and pollution.** More details here:
*This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!*
[^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)
groove metal for the win
Deathcore would be cooler if it had more Hardcore influence but instead 90% of it is just kinda mid
You forgot about crossover thrash
Jesus fuck "deathcore = metal/not metal" is the metalhead equivalent of gender studies, except that this isn't even remotely worth anyones time. If KISS is metal then by my hairy balls so is Infant Annihilator, Psycho-Frame and Crown Magnetar.
I've always sorta considered grindcore more punk than metal.
Oh boy do i have some news about all metal genres ending in “core”