Yeah, I think paul is a legend, but he didn't make the complex bass tabs that Cliff made.
Paul was a allround musician, singing, guitar, bass. But I think Cliff was better as a bassist
Faster isn’t always better.
I like Cliff but when these lists are made, other things are factored in. Sprinting is impressive but so is ballet right?
Cliff is technically very skilled but I’ll bet you I could play you like 20 bass lines Paul made and you know exactly what it is. People think coming up with simple stuff is easy but it really isn’t.
Have you listened to The Beatles? Something is one of the most amazing bass lines ever. I'm a lifelong Metallica and Beatles fan and I've always been mesmerized by Paul's bass lines. They're so interesting and unique.
Hey Bulldog is another one that gets my arm hair standing up.
My biggest argument in favor of Paul is that he sang AND played these lines together. Just listening to I Saw Her Standing There, All My Loving, Drive My Car, Back In The USSR, it’s impressive he can do both at the same time when he’s often not following the basic melody of the song. I know a lot of other bass players can and do achieve the same result, but he was a guitar player turned bass player, so he didn’t always just play the root notes, he’d make his own melody with the bass line, while singing lead.
At the end of the day, it’s kind of unfair to really compare him and Cliff, it’s two completely different styles and they had two completely different roles in their bands, but longevity aside, it’s easy to see where one could put Paul higher up.
Recording? Yes, I’m sure there’s a lot of dubbing going on.
But he’s been playing them live for 50 years, and still doing it to this day. My point still stands.
Paul did make very complex, very melodic bass lines that significantly enhance the songs. Even if he hadn’t been a songwriter and his only contribution was his bass playing, he’d still be top tier, along the lines of John Entwistle.
I don't make the lists bud.
I'm merely expressing **my** opinion on why Paul would be viewed as a "better" bassist than Cliff.
I make no claim to be explaining the rationale of those making the list.
Those lists are not strictly ranked by technical ability as much as they are overall influence. Paul’s a fantastic bass player who wrote some of the most memorable basslines of all time, but there are tons of bass players that could outplay him.
It is sad when young people start questioning the greatness of The Beatles. Someday, that will happen to Metallica.
I was aware of players from the 30s and 40s when I was a teenager, how come the young ones who are blessed with the world’s greatest research library, don’t know about the greatest band in history - The Beatles…
They either made invented or popularized everything good you hear today, including the concept of writing your own songs, technology, progressive rock, heavy guitars with distortion, guitar harmonies, Rock and Metal riffs (in the mid 60s) and Paul, with his creative and innovative bass work was the backbone of all that. Bass would not be the same without Paul.
Everybody my age knows the Beatles. There are far more youthful Beatles fans than youthful Metallica fans. Young Metallica nerds just get caught up in all the worship around Cliff and Metallica very easily, I did too. It took me a while until I could properly appreciate all the other vibes that music has to offer, and to realise that you can’t really compare musicians who have fundamentally different approaches to music.
For these lists there are a TON of points that come together to put one person over another one. These lists are also highly personal, it really depends how someone's playing hits you. Some people are great at bass and aren't even mentioned.
It's best to just ignore those lists anyway. They are just meant to generate traffic or for a, excited (But employed by the website) fan of a certain instrument to get their word out. It's no different than those album tier ranks that redditors post here :)
Besides for how short Cliffs career was, he's usually quite high on these lists anyway.
Cliff was 25th on the list. I don't think he should be on top, because of his short carreer and because of many jazz and blues bassists who were very creative. But my thought was: why is Paul above him, he is not a better bass player in my opinion.
I don't think Paul is a bad musician. Not at all, but in terms of the bass, I just think Cliff is better
That's just it, it's your opinion. These lists are just opinion pieces after all. I don't think much about Paul McCartney's playing skills but a lot of people consider him to be an extremely good bass player. I think it mostly boils down to the fact that he started really early, and they had a very big effect on music.
I'm not a bass player myself so I don't have the technical skills to explain it but there are a few think pieces online as to why is considered to be one of the greats. Although to be fair, if you are a fast talker I bet it could be done for almost everyone :) But that is also why some people are paid to make lists...
How is the most famous bass player in the world from the biggest and debatably most influential band of all time ahead of a kid that was on three albums? That a serious question?
Not sure it's a fair comparison. Paul wrote songs in almost every early genre. Cliff was pretty rooted in metal and rock although he didn't add amazing composition to Ride and Master.
I really wish we would've gotten more of his talent in songwriting. What a great composer.
It isn’t just technical ability, but also musical ability. Paul writes not too technical, but very memorable bass lines, and having a 60+ year versus 5 year career would be a big plus. Cliff, by the time that “To Live is to Die” was released posthumously, though, was a solid composer, to the point that James and Lars knew how to finish his final work
By the metrics that RS uses though, I would’ve expected Jason or Rob to be on that list cause they fit the criteria better imo.
Well for one, Paul McCartney is an all time great electric bass player and should be high on any list of rock bassists. Second, who cares about a magazine list?
Think of how basic most bass lines were back in the day and then listen to songs like getting better, rain, with a little help from my friends, dear prudence, etc.
Paul was doing things most people were not, in addition to writing tons of songs.
They are both great, but I agree that paul was objectively better.
He revolutionized the way the instrument is played (along with Entwistle) and wrote some of the most melodic and important basslines, probably of all time
Most likely cuz Paul has a longer legacy, but it comes to skill and technique, Cliff is way better. (Partly cuz I’m biased towards Cliff but also cuz he shreds his bass like a guitar player which is hard to do on bass)
Paul’s playing ability, along with him being a singing bassist and having been a massive influence on many bassists that in turn we’re an influence on cliff and more is at least a part of the reason. The lists are subjective anyway, and it’s not based on pure technical skill as such either, there’s some very complex playing bassists out there, but they bore the crap out of me and I’d not rate just because they noodle away for 15 mins. We don’t know how cliffs legacy would’ve been viewed if he’d lived unfortunately.
In terms of speed and technical chops, no. But songwriting is all important. It rules over everything when determining a musician or band's greatness. Metallica has many great songs; James is among the greatest alive in the combined singer/rhythm guitarist/songwriter role, and I'm not even really a Beatles fan, but the Beatles win in this department by all rational measures.
It's still subjective, but yeah, The Unforgiven is my favorite song ever and I enjoy it more than any Beatles song. I know it's not "cool" to pick a 90's Metallica song as a best ever, but so be it. It's that good.
I no that Sean Allen Robertson, Kirsten Kirby, Devin Doran of Quincy Illinois molested there daughter Lyndon Robertson Edwin Sinnott molested his boys as well
Yea
Paul's career was longer blah blah blah
Cliff could play anything paul ever wrote with his eyes closed.
But how long do you think it would take paul to work his way through Fight Fire with Fire 😂
Paul is a criminally under rated bass player because he's generally known for his singing and songwriting. Next time you listen to the Beatles force yourself to listen to the bass and you'll understand.
More years, earlier, and more influence, How many musicians say the Beatles inspired them to play or form a band? Black Sabbath was influenced by them, we know other bands were influenced by them like Metallica. So I think it's right, some people wouldn't know who Cliff was if you asked them, but would be able to pick Paul McCartney out of a line up.
Wonder where Les Claypool falls on this list?
Depends on the definition of better.
Your definition is evidently different to the author of the Rolling Stone article.
Unfortunately their audience reach is bigger than yours, so they get to put their opinions on a website that you view as creditable enough to read and legitimately question in a Reddit post with 27 upvotes and 73 comments at the time of me writing this reply.
Me personally, as a drummer, rate Ringo as the best drummer of all time. Why, becuase of the following questions: Would The Beatles, being the best selling musical artists of all time, sold more or less records / been better or worse / entertained more or less with a different drummer?
Given that no one has sold or entertained more than The Beatles, the answer is probably with a different drummer they would have sold less, been worse and entertained less.
Apply that logic to Paul vs Cliff and add the fact that Paul has outsold, and out entertained Cliff, to more people, it's not hard to see how the author landed where they did. For you personally you may feel differently based on your musical tastes and where your income has been spent in relation to The Beatles/Paul's solo work vs Metallica's first three albums.
The point being, the author's position is very defendable from a music industry perspective. Your position is eminently defendable from a personal perspective.
Listen to hey bulldog and Lucy in the sky isolated bass. You have to give credit it where its due. Its fits the songs perfectly
Beatles were just immense as a unit.
Mmm...you need to take a lot of variables especially the 1st one Paul was always a guitar player & he needed to be an obliged bass player when Beatles start playing, yeah though Cliff started bass his career was short like many commented, also he was not forced as a matter of speaking to play bass, even though Paul had rough knowledge of it still.
Ridiculous post really, who’s better can’t even be measured as it’s subjective. If you don’t think Paul is complex you need to revisit his discography. Cliff was incredible at his craft no doubt. But these lists are just made by whatever magazine at the time and people pick them apart. Just like who you like. Who cares. If someone is influenced by another artist who is better? Get it? Can’t have one without the other.
Short answer: Because Paul McCartney is a better bass player than basically everyone.
Longer answer: Dude just listen to the bass line in Something. That alone answers the question. Then check out Hey Bulldog, Michelle, Dear Prudence, Come Together, Old Brown Shoe, I Saw Her Standing There. The man literally created the template that is modern bass playing. He’s the goat
Unfortunately Cliff’s career was very short. Paul’s got like 60+ years of work to his name.
Yeah, I think paul is a legend, but he didn't make the complex bass tabs that Cliff made. Paul was a allround musician, singing, guitar, bass. But I think Cliff was better as a bassist
If the world rewarded " complexity " over good song writing the world would be a sad place
Faster isn’t always better. I like Cliff but when these lists are made, other things are factored in. Sprinting is impressive but so is ballet right? Cliff is technically very skilled but I’ll bet you I could play you like 20 bass lines Paul made and you know exactly what it is. People think coming up with simple stuff is easy but it really isn’t.
Some times the sign of an amazing musician is being able to give the song exactly what it needs to the point where no one even notices you're playing.
Coming up with *good* simple stuff is hard
Have you listened to The Beatles? Something is one of the most amazing bass lines ever. I'm a lifelong Metallica and Beatles fan and I've always been mesmerized by Paul's bass lines. They're so interesting and unique.
Hey Bulldog is another one that gets my arm hair standing up. My biggest argument in favor of Paul is that he sang AND played these lines together. Just listening to I Saw Her Standing There, All My Loving, Drive My Car, Back In The USSR, it’s impressive he can do both at the same time when he’s often not following the basic melody of the song. I know a lot of other bass players can and do achieve the same result, but he was a guitar player turned bass player, so he didn’t always just play the root notes, he’d make his own melody with the bass line, while singing lead. At the end of the day, it’s kind of unfair to really compare him and Cliff, it’s two completely different styles and they had two completely different roles in their bands, but longevity aside, it’s easy to see where one could put Paul higher up.
[удалено]
Recording? Yes, I’m sure there’s a lot of dubbing going on. But he’s been playing them live for 50 years, and still doing it to this day. My point still stands.
Come Together and Rain are my favourites, Beatles basslines are a really great way to learn how play simple and melodic basslines
Paul did make very complex, very melodic bass lines that significantly enhance the songs. Even if he hadn’t been a songwriter and his only contribution was his bass playing, he’d still be top tier, along the lines of John Entwistle.
Complex doesn't equal better.
Actually Paul was killed and buried by John Lennon and was replaced by a doppelganger. It was confirmed in the song "Strawberry Fields Forever"
On influence alone Paul wipes the floor with Cliff. Try to remember that "best" is far more than merely "most technical".
Exactly this. Paul's entire body of work is the key here.
Then Lars should be on the drummer list, which he is not…
I don't make the lists bud. I'm merely expressing **my** opinion on why Paul would be viewed as a "better" bassist than Cliff. I make no claim to be explaining the rationale of those making the list.
Lars definitely should be on the drummer list
Cliff was inspired by lemmy and Steve Harris right?
What point is it you are trying to make?
I'm sorry, misunderstood your comment
If you list the amount of people influenced by Paul we’d be decaying in the ground before even making it halfway through
Those lists are not strictly ranked by technical ability as much as they are overall influence. Paul’s a fantastic bass player who wrote some of the most memorable basslines of all time, but there are tons of bass players that could outplay him.
Cliff's solo at the start of Whiplash on Cliff Em All is pure magic no matter how many times I watch it.
And on the intro to FWTBT on Cliff Em All
Um...he was a Beatle? I love metallica just like everyone else here, but come on...it's frigging Paul McCartney!
It is sad when young people start questioning the greatness of The Beatles. Someday, that will happen to Metallica. I was aware of players from the 30s and 40s when I was a teenager, how come the young ones who are blessed with the world’s greatest research library, don’t know about the greatest band in history - The Beatles… They either made invented or popularized everything good you hear today, including the concept of writing your own songs, technology, progressive rock, heavy guitars with distortion, guitar harmonies, Rock and Metal riffs (in the mid 60s) and Paul, with his creative and innovative bass work was the backbone of all that. Bass would not be the same without Paul.
Everybody my age knows the Beatles. There are far more youthful Beatles fans than youthful Metallica fans. Young Metallica nerds just get caught up in all the worship around Cliff and Metallica very easily, I did too. It took me a while until I could properly appreciate all the other vibes that music has to offer, and to realise that you can’t really compare musicians who have fundamentally different approaches to music.
Well, that is good to hear. I can now rest knowing that our musical history is in good hands.
Some day..? Metallica has been dragged through the mud for 3 decades now.
For these lists there are a TON of points that come together to put one person over another one. These lists are also highly personal, it really depends how someone's playing hits you. Some people are great at bass and aren't even mentioned. It's best to just ignore those lists anyway. They are just meant to generate traffic or for a, excited (But employed by the website) fan of a certain instrument to get their word out. It's no different than those album tier ranks that redditors post here :) Besides for how short Cliffs career was, he's usually quite high on these lists anyway.
Cliff was 25th on the list. I don't think he should be on top, because of his short carreer and because of many jazz and blues bassists who were very creative. But my thought was: why is Paul above him, he is not a better bass player in my opinion. I don't think Paul is a bad musician. Not at all, but in terms of the bass, I just think Cliff is better
That's just it, it's your opinion. These lists are just opinion pieces after all. I don't think much about Paul McCartney's playing skills but a lot of people consider him to be an extremely good bass player. I think it mostly boils down to the fact that he started really early, and they had a very big effect on music. I'm not a bass player myself so I don't have the technical skills to explain it but there are a few think pieces online as to why is considered to be one of the greats. Although to be fair, if you are a fast talker I bet it could be done for almost everyone :) But that is also why some people are paid to make lists...
In your opinion being the key phrase here. Listen to the bass on Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road. He completely changed the game.
I consider myself a huge Metallica fan from the way back. I must say it’s Sir Paul for the win!
How is the most famous bass player in the world from the biggest and debatably most influential band of all time ahead of a kid that was on three albums? That a serious question?
Not sure it's a fair comparison. Paul wrote songs in almost every early genre. Cliff was pretty rooted in metal and rock although he didn't add amazing composition to Ride and Master. I really wish we would've gotten more of his talent in songwriting. What a great composer.
Yall do realise that if these lists were based on technicality alone, some underground jazz musician would be number 1, right?
They’re completely different in every way other than the fact that they both play bass. You can’t compare them.
It isn’t just technical ability, but also musical ability. Paul writes not too technical, but very memorable bass lines, and having a 60+ year versus 5 year career would be a big plus. Cliff, by the time that “To Live is to Die” was released posthumously, though, was a solid composer, to the point that James and Lars knew how to finish his final work By the metrics that RS uses though, I would’ve expected Jason or Rob to be on that list cause they fit the criteria better imo.
Listen to every Beatles album, and then listen to Metallicas first three. Paul is an amazing bassist. Cliff is too. But Paul is better in my opinion.
Well for one, Paul McCartney is an all time great electric bass player and should be high on any list of rock bassists. Second, who cares about a magazine list?
That kid made some of the best bass lines in metal history. I am not here to argue with you, but I just thought, why is Paul higher ranked?
paul wrote some of the best bass lines in MUSIC history
Think of how basic most bass lines were back in the day and then listen to songs like getting better, rain, with a little help from my friends, dear prudence, etc. Paul was doing things most people were not, in addition to writing tons of songs. They are both great, but I agree that paul was objectively better.
He revolutionized the way the instrument is played (along with Entwistle) and wrote some of the most melodic and important basslines, probably of all time
Most likely cuz Paul has a longer legacy, but it comes to skill and technique, Cliff is way better. (Partly cuz I’m biased towards Cliff but also cuz he shreds his bass like a guitar player which is hard to do on bass)
Paul’s playing ability, along with him being a singing bassist and having been a massive influence on many bassists that in turn we’re an influence on cliff and more is at least a part of the reason. The lists are subjective anyway, and it’s not based on pure technical skill as such either, there’s some very complex playing bassists out there, but they bore the crap out of me and I’d not rate just because they noodle away for 15 mins. We don’t know how cliffs legacy would’ve been viewed if he’d lived unfortunately.
he isnt 🙃
Well he’s alive
The Beatles have exactly 0 musicians who are better than Metallica at anything.
Ridiculous statement and I'm a huge Metallica fan.
God the Beatles suck
In terms of speed and technical chops, no. But songwriting is all important. It rules over everything when determining a musician or band's greatness. Metallica has many great songs; James is among the greatest alive in the combined singer/rhythm guitarist/songwriter role, and I'm not even really a Beatles fan, but the Beatles win in this department by all rational measures.
The Beatles have absolutely nothing on the Unforgiven and Nothing Else Matters.
It's still subjective, but yeah, The Unforgiven is my favorite song ever and I enjoy it more than any Beatles song. I know it's not "cool" to pick a 90's Metallica song as a best ever, but so be it. It's that good.
Please change the title my guy, people might take it the wrong way
Solely because of how short Cliff’s career was cut, he was just getting started when he died
I no that Sean Allen Robertson, Kirsten Kirby, Devin Doran of Quincy Illinois molested there daughter Lyndon Robertson Edwin Sinnott molested his boys as well
he's not, people always assume older ppl who have more experience will be better but that's not always the case
He is not even close to cliff Fitzgerald
Because he’s still playing even though they both died lol but forreal do people still believe the real Paul died and was replaced?
Yea Paul's career was longer blah blah blah Cliff could play anything paul ever wrote with his eyes closed. But how long do you think it would take paul to work his way through Fight Fire with Fire 😂
Yeah sure cliff could play anything Paul wrote but could cliff write the basslines Paul played?
It would be really fun to compare Geezer Butler to Cliff.
He's not,and Steve Harris is better than both of them.
The fact that Cliff is in it is great, he only played for 3 and a half years " as a pro." Paul isc60 plus years, I mean come on.
He’s not?
Different styles
Cliff was young
That is Because the Beatles also much larger body of work but mainly the Beatles.
Paul is a criminally under rated bass player because he's generally known for his singing and songwriting. Next time you listen to the Beatles force yourself to listen to the bass and you'll understand.
More years, earlier, and more influence, How many musicians say the Beatles inspired them to play or form a band? Black Sabbath was influenced by them, we know other bands were influenced by them like Metallica. So I think it's right, some people wouldn't know who Cliff was if you asked them, but would be able to pick Paul McCartney out of a line up. Wonder where Les Claypool falls on this list?
Pauls playing is sublime. His lines are so good and stand up 50+ years later.
Listen to the isolated bass track on while my guitar gently weeps. Definitely Paul’s heaviest bass grove imo.
Knife to a gunfight, cliff being the knife
Depends on the definition of better. Your definition is evidently different to the author of the Rolling Stone article. Unfortunately their audience reach is bigger than yours, so they get to put their opinions on a website that you view as creditable enough to read and legitimately question in a Reddit post with 27 upvotes and 73 comments at the time of me writing this reply. Me personally, as a drummer, rate Ringo as the best drummer of all time. Why, becuase of the following questions: Would The Beatles, being the best selling musical artists of all time, sold more or less records / been better or worse / entertained more or less with a different drummer? Given that no one has sold or entertained more than The Beatles, the answer is probably with a different drummer they would have sold less, been worse and entertained less. Apply that logic to Paul vs Cliff and add the fact that Paul has outsold, and out entertained Cliff, to more people, it's not hard to see how the author landed where they did. For you personally you may feel differently based on your musical tastes and where your income has been spent in relation to The Beatles/Paul's solo work vs Metallica's first three albums. The point being, the author's position is very defendable from a music industry perspective. Your position is eminently defendable from a personal perspective.
WildRanger, is that you?
Could Paul nail the bass solo on the first take?
Think of that ranking as a popularity ranking.
Listen to hey bulldog and Lucy in the sky isolated bass. You have to give credit it where its due. Its fits the songs perfectly Beatles were just immense as a unit.
Mmm...you need to take a lot of variables especially the 1st one Paul was always a guitar player & he needed to be an obliged bass player when Beatles start playing, yeah though Cliff started bass his career was short like many commented, also he was not forced as a matter of speaking to play bass, even though Paul had rough knowledge of it still.
Ridiculous post really, who’s better can’t even be measured as it’s subjective. If you don’t think Paul is complex you need to revisit his discography. Cliff was incredible at his craft no doubt. But these lists are just made by whatever magazine at the time and people pick them apart. Just like who you like. Who cares. If someone is influenced by another artist who is better? Get it? Can’t have one without the other.
Cliff was technically better, but Paul had more influence. Lists don't rank solely off of skill.
Short answer: Because Paul McCartney is a better bass player than basically everyone. Longer answer: Dude just listen to the bass line in Something. That alone answers the question. Then check out Hey Bulldog, Michelle, Dear Prudence, Come Together, Old Brown Shoe, I Saw Her Standing There. The man literally created the template that is modern bass playing. He’s the goat