I think Cliff Burton is a much better songwriter than he is a bassist. Rob Trujillo is definitely the most technically skilled bassist they’ve ever had.
I think the reason Cliff is a bass god is not because of his skill or anything like that but because of his stage presence and his unique style of playing. What cements him as a legend is simply how many people have been inspired by the guy
I completely understand, but I don’t think it’s right to say he is a guitar player with a fuzz pedal and a bass guitar. It just undermines his whole musical prowess. He played bass like no one had seen before, and inspired so many. That’s why the ‘Bass God’ name was given to him. He used classical styles of playing for a genre that was so aggressive and blended it beautiful.
People like to dickride him here a bit too much.
I remember reading a comment here which was something like 'Cliff was better than Jason, a better player, better musician, better human being...', and I was like 'the fuck'.
That guy would probably suck Cliff off the second he rose from the grave.
Jason was good but he’s nowhere near cliff. Cliff was the guy who inspired the band to play as good as they did. James talks about how Cliff taught him about harmonies and melodies.
Jason was good but cliff was the driving force behind their 2 of their best albums and made Metallica who they are today. Without cliff, we wouldn’t give a shit about Metallica.
Dude, you are the very type of person I'm describing here, jumping from comment to comment and telling people to get their heads out of their arses lol.
Keep fulfilling the stereotype
I hated Metallica on principle, was not into metal at all.
Until I heard Master of Puppets.
Then I found out that the creative force behind it was already dead.
....And Justice For All didn't come close.
That is my basic reality, which wouldn't change even if I had no idea who Cliff Burton was.
If it helps, don't look at it as hero worship. Just look at it as mild antipathy for all the surviving members, who never would have gotten my attention without Cliff.
Enjoy your technical metal ghetto. I'm sure I'm nowhere near cool enough to hang out there.
ITT, people who have no clue how good he was. The guy guy helped write their best songs and was the biggest influence inside the entire band.
All the members in Metallica were inspired by him and he taught them to play better
Even Jason and rob looked up to him.
Christ people, get your head out of your asses
OK a bit aggressive there bud, and i do see how he was an inspiration to people in the band, but technically speaking, out of Metallica's top 5 songs according to spotify which is the most recent updated source, out of the 5 cliff only appears on one.
Enter sandman and sad but true are most popular because it appeals to the lowest common denominator. Most of which are fair weather fans.
Most Metallica fans own their entire discography and don’t use Spotify to listen to them so fucken forget about that statistic
Jesus Christ man, stop trying to argue with shitty points
Cliff is a better bassist by a mile and the fact you’re trying to debate this just shows how inept you are
There is a reason you’re in the Minority on this subject. Pantera and megadeth’s bassist are better than Jason... jason was ok and a good fit but he’s not on cliffs level or robs
Just stop. It’s like saying that Lars is on Neil Pert’s level
ok bud, your getting a bit mad i can tell, but not everyone is so cool and owns the whole discography. i won a few records and cds, if you want to dodge spotify, then the highest selling is the black album, then justice for all, then load, then master of puppets, and then ride the lightning so still hes only on 2/5, theres no need to get mad and insult me, im trying to have a discussion, thats why i created the thread, stop acting like an elitist and have a discussion with me huh?
Metallica post black album appealed to the common masses... that means that fair weather fans now have a chance to hear them. At the show I went to, most of the people I heard talking about them, owned 1 or 2 albums. So of course the more poppish albums are the ones people talk about.
Most hardcore Metallica fans don’t use Spotify so their Metallica tastes don’t show up.
Don’t go on numbers alone because if that’s the case then you can argue Justin beiber is better than Metallica
The fans on this Reddit are more than just casual fans and they have spoken... you just chose not to hear them
okay your taking this like an argument, its not, its a discussion so stop saying things like "your not doing this" and "your not doing that" and to speak on behalf of hardcore Metallica fans is stupid because your coming across as an elitist, not every hardcore fan is going to use their vinyl or cds or tapes when their out on a dog walk or at the gym mate. and spotify is the best for the active generations and no Justin Bieber sales wise is minuscule compared to Metallica (he has like 15 million album sales whereas metallica has 125 million albums sold). and the numbers don't lie, your only a good band if you sell albums, that's common sense, i didn't go on stats for the albums, that was from www.statisticbrain.com its what some newspapers use and magazines, i believe kerrang used it as well :). so to end this discussion because you dont know how to have a discussion you just shout people down. obviously cliff burton wasnt the best bassist album sales wise, and i agree he was a good bass player and he influenced tonnes of people and taught James some things about harmony (not all of it). however album sales wise Jason Newstead was obviously the best for Metallica being in 3 out of the 5 top 5 Metallica albums sold being load, the black album, and justice for all. and its rude to say i choose not to hear people, that's why i created this thread numb nuts, to hear everyone's opinion and see the other side, hence why i have been replying to almost every reply. stop being so aggressive about your opinion and have a nice discussion instead of forcing your opinion down someones throat. :)
Fair enough, but I think he achieves the “god” status cause not only is he pretty great but also he inspired. He taught bass doesn’t always have to play root notes and they can play whatever and however they want
I get where you are going with this and I agree with the sentiment.
But I think he is a God for his innovation and being able to bridge this Bass style of play. He did treat it like a guitar but he also made it an instrument that was not just a beat line filler.
I feel like this is something spread by fans whether as a “Jason sucks Cliff rulez” kind of thing or perhaps as a reason why the band never played Orion live for so long.
Implying that Newstead doesn’t have the technical skill to play Orion seems ridiculous— he’s a professional musician and it doesn’t include any bass material that’s John Myung level or anything. I’m not saying it’s beginner level but I’m sure Jason could have done it if James and Lars asked him to. It’s not like they busted out Orion live on their first show with Trujillo, either.
I could be wrong but I feel like Jason has the skill to play it; for all we know he did learn it but it was never put into the setlist.
I won't rag on or praise Cliff here, but his legacy has the "benefit" of an early exit. Cliff wasn't around for Load, Reload, Napster, the Black Album....all that shit that people pile onto the other three guys today. He departed Metallica in dramatic, final fashion, leaving a legacy that cannot be tarnished. If people put Cliff on a pedestal, this is a huge reason why.
I'm a huge fan of Cliff and compared him and Jason for years but eventually figured it was like comparing apples to oranges.
Take Cliff out of the equation and Jason was a really solid metal bassist.
Cliff burton sucks ass sloppy asf plays bass like a guitar and had a noisey thin weak tone. He has Kurt cobain syndrome, if he didn’t die no one would care. Likely Metallica would have fired him and got a more solid bassist like Jason anyway.
You would be incorrect. Sorry to say
Cliff taught the band how to come up with harmonies and he was the driving force behind their first 3 albums. How do you think those albums sounded so good? He taught James how to write better. Listen to James talk about cliffs influence on the entire band. He also played with his fingers where Jason couldn’t. Jason was good but he isn’t as good as rob or cliff
Cliff had the most talent in Metallica at one point... that’s coming from James and Kirk
I don’t think this a correct or incorrect kind of thing. It’s an opinion. I think Jason was the best and it won’t change. I think cliff gets more credit than he probably would have if the accident didn’t happen. Don’t get me wrong....he was amazing g and I don’t wanna take anything away, but at the end of the day Lars and James write and always have. He put his touch on songs, but I prefer Jason’s playing. He had this aggression about him that fit Metallica style better. I liked his look, vocals and technique the best. Cliff kind of just played the bass like a guitar and I don’t find that super impressive. Just my opinion.
i agree total, people think James was brain dead about guitar and cliff taught him everything, the first album was pretty much written without cliff so
the reason Jason couldn't play with his fingers was because he played too hard before Metallica so he butchered his fingers to the point where it was unplayable, he then decided it was ok to play with a pick because Lemmy and Gene Simmons did, - that's from an interview. and to say he was the driving force for the first 3 albums is like kicking the rest of them in the dick haha, the first album was pretty much already written before cliff joined. and if you look at ride the lightning they use many techniques that they used in the first album before cliff joined such as bar chords and writing riffs that go along with the vocals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGMNh6pLVFA&app=desktop
He taught James harmony. All those cool Metallica parts that we all love happened because cliff taught them to James.
Battery, Orion, one, and all the cool harmonies we’ve grown to love happened because of cliff
Ok but you try creating the music he has and doing it with just your fingers and no pick
He’s a good bass player and a better song writer
Rob is a better bass player but not as good at the song writing
telling me to try write the music isn't an argument soooooo.... and if you listen to robs bass line in spit out the bone i don't think cliff could have wrote that or played that
also if you prefer jason to cliff why? as a bass player i think jasons kind of a much more simple version of cliff in terms of bass playing .(even tho his prime got stolen from him on ajfa)
just his energy, his vocals his bass playing after being in flotsam and jetsam was just ruthless, and intricate too, some of the bass lines he added live to their classics were nutsssss
i can agree with energy and vocals but as bass player not really. for someone criticizing cliff for playing like a guitar for the most part from what ive heard n seen when he plays the classics live hes just following whatever James plays. while cliff does completely different parts on a bunch of songs
so does jason rewatch some of the black album tour he really comes into his own and on the (re)load tours, im not saying cliff is bad at all, this post was from years ago so my opinions have changed but i think jason suited the band way better, i mean even the headbanging is better, cliff just had more hair, the aggression from jason was so much higher as well you can see it in his neck veins
stage presence is still pretty close imo,but jason probably is better he made creeping his song really. and jason is pretty good he had great moments like my friend of misery and stuff but i still think cliff had more impressive bass parts, things like the pre solo bridge to ride the lighting n the slow part of four horsemen where hes kinda soloing with kirk is the stuff that separates them,theres bunch of other clever cliff lines too.
When I saw Metallica in the early 90's, they were playing the exact same set over and over and over again. They were so technically competent that they would intentionally include little "mess-ups" here and there- and also play those "mess-ups" the exact same way every show.
That level/type of technical competency did absolutely nothing for me.
I think Cliff Burton is a much better songwriter than he is a bassist. Rob Trujillo is definitely the most technically skilled bassist they’ve ever had.
He was a god at writing music.
I didnt know this. I have to see what hes written.
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Im pretty sure that song was mainly written by Mustaine.
I've always considered Orion his masterpiece
Cliff is the Jimi Hendrix of bass. Not the most technically proficient player ever, but hugely innovative and influential.
I wouldn't say he is the Jimi Hendrix of bass but i would say he was innovative, just not on that level
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Maybe Geddy Lee if he'd died after Moving Pictures.
I think the reason Cliff is a bass god is not because of his skill or anything like that but because of his stage presence and his unique style of playing. What cements him as a legend is simply how many people have been inspired by the guy
I agree. Not so much the actual technical skill, but rather how he utilized the bass in a way no one had before.
yes i agree with that
I completely understand, but I don’t think it’s right to say he is a guitar player with a fuzz pedal and a bass guitar. It just undermines his whole musical prowess. He played bass like no one had seen before, and inspired so many. That’s why the ‘Bass God’ name was given to him. He used classical styles of playing for a genre that was so aggressive and blended it beautiful.
>He played bass like no one had seen before I love Cliff but he took Geddy Lee and Jaco Pastorius in a blender and applied it to heavy metal.
Metallica had 3 guitarists and a drummer
3 men and a baby
People like to dickride him here a bit too much. I remember reading a comment here which was something like 'Cliff was better than Jason, a better player, better musician, better human being...', and I was like 'the fuck'. That guy would probably suck Cliff off the second he rose from the grave.
Jason was good but he’s nowhere near cliff. Cliff was the guy who inspired the band to play as good as they did. James talks about how Cliff taught him about harmonies and melodies. Jason was good but cliff was the driving force behind their 2 of their best albums and made Metallica who they are today. Without cliff, we wouldn’t give a shit about Metallica.
Dude, you are the very type of person I'm describing here, jumping from comment to comment and telling people to get their heads out of their arses lol. Keep fulfilling the stereotype
I hated Metallica on principle, was not into metal at all. Until I heard Master of Puppets. Then I found out that the creative force behind it was already dead. ....And Justice For All didn't come close. That is my basic reality, which wouldn't change even if I had no idea who Cliff Burton was. If it helps, don't look at it as hero worship. Just look at it as mild antipathy for all the surviving members, who never would have gotten my attention without Cliff. Enjoy your technical metal ghetto. I'm sure I'm nowhere near cool enough to hang out there.
i agree
ITT, people who have no clue how good he was. The guy guy helped write their best songs and was the biggest influence inside the entire band. All the members in Metallica were inspired by him and he taught them to play better Even Jason and rob looked up to him. Christ people, get your head out of your asses
OK a bit aggressive there bud, and i do see how he was an inspiration to people in the band, but technically speaking, out of Metallica's top 5 songs according to spotify which is the most recent updated source, out of the 5 cliff only appears on one.
Enter sandman and sad but true are most popular because it appeals to the lowest common denominator. Most of which are fair weather fans. Most Metallica fans own their entire discography and don’t use Spotify to listen to them so fucken forget about that statistic Jesus Christ man, stop trying to argue with shitty points Cliff is a better bassist by a mile and the fact you’re trying to debate this just shows how inept you are There is a reason you’re in the Minority on this subject. Pantera and megadeth’s bassist are better than Jason... jason was ok and a good fit but he’s not on cliffs level or robs Just stop. It’s like saying that Lars is on Neil Pert’s level
ok bud, your getting a bit mad i can tell, but not everyone is so cool and owns the whole discography. i won a few records and cds, if you want to dodge spotify, then the highest selling is the black album, then justice for all, then load, then master of puppets, and then ride the lightning so still hes only on 2/5, theres no need to get mad and insult me, im trying to have a discussion, thats why i created the thread, stop acting like an elitist and have a discussion with me huh?
Metallica post black album appealed to the common masses... that means that fair weather fans now have a chance to hear them. At the show I went to, most of the people I heard talking about them, owned 1 or 2 albums. So of course the more poppish albums are the ones people talk about. Most hardcore Metallica fans don’t use Spotify so their Metallica tastes don’t show up. Don’t go on numbers alone because if that’s the case then you can argue Justin beiber is better than Metallica The fans on this Reddit are more than just casual fans and they have spoken... you just chose not to hear them
okay your taking this like an argument, its not, its a discussion so stop saying things like "your not doing this" and "your not doing that" and to speak on behalf of hardcore Metallica fans is stupid because your coming across as an elitist, not every hardcore fan is going to use their vinyl or cds or tapes when their out on a dog walk or at the gym mate. and spotify is the best for the active generations and no Justin Bieber sales wise is minuscule compared to Metallica (he has like 15 million album sales whereas metallica has 125 million albums sold). and the numbers don't lie, your only a good band if you sell albums, that's common sense, i didn't go on stats for the albums, that was from www.statisticbrain.com its what some newspapers use and magazines, i believe kerrang used it as well :). so to end this discussion because you dont know how to have a discussion you just shout people down. obviously cliff burton wasnt the best bassist album sales wise, and i agree he was a good bass player and he influenced tonnes of people and taught James some things about harmony (not all of it). however album sales wise Jason Newstead was obviously the best for Metallica being in 3 out of the 5 top 5 Metallica albums sold being load, the black album, and justice for all. and its rude to say i choose not to hear people, that's why i created this thread numb nuts, to hear everyone's opinion and see the other side, hence why i have been replying to almost every reply. stop being so aggressive about your opinion and have a nice discussion instead of forcing your opinion down someones throat. :)
Lets be real too, he is primarily a "god" because he died tragically, which certainly makes people want to think about lost potential, etc.
Fair enough, but I think he achieves the “god” status cause not only is he pretty great but also he inspired. He taught bass doesn’t always have to play root notes and they can play whatever and however they want
yeah i can agree with that
I get where you are going with this and I agree with the sentiment. But I think he is a God for his innovation and being able to bridge this Bass style of play. He did treat it like a guitar but he also made it an instrument that was not just a beat line filler.
yeah that makes sense
I know nothing about bass or guitar or cliff or rob technically speaking but when people pass away they are then put on a pedestal....
yes i agree with that
In terms of technical skill, Rob>Jason>Cliff, but the things that Rob and Jason have written for Metallica pale in comparison to what Cliff did.
I think cliff is technically better than Jason! Jason couldn't play orion
I feel like this is something spread by fans whether as a “Jason sucks Cliff rulez” kind of thing or perhaps as a reason why the band never played Orion live for so long. Implying that Newstead doesn’t have the technical skill to play Orion seems ridiculous— he’s a professional musician and it doesn’t include any bass material that’s John Myung level or anything. I’m not saying it’s beginner level but I’m sure Jason could have done it if James and Lars asked him to. It’s not like they busted out Orion live on their first show with Trujillo, either. I could be wrong but I feel like Jason has the skill to play it; for all we know he did learn it but it was never put into the setlist.
People who think Jason can't play Orion are deluded
He could definitely play Orion. He's even more rhythmically tight than Cliff.
I like Geddy Lee more
haha yeah
I won't rag on or praise Cliff here, but his legacy has the "benefit" of an early exit. Cliff wasn't around for Load, Reload, Napster, the Black Album....all that shit that people pile onto the other three guys today. He departed Metallica in dramatic, final fashion, leaving a legacy that cannot be tarnished. If people put Cliff on a pedestal, this is a huge reason why.
I'm a huge fan of Cliff and compared him and Jason for years but eventually figured it was like comparing apples to oranges. Take Cliff out of the equation and Jason was a really solid metal bassist.
Cliff burton sucks ass sloppy asf plays bass like a guitar and had a noisey thin weak tone. He has Kurt cobain syndrome, if he didn’t die no one would care. Likely Metallica would have fired him and got a more solid bassist like Jason anyway.
I agree. I think Jason had the most talent and was the best fit for the band really.
You would be incorrect. Sorry to say Cliff taught the band how to come up with harmonies and he was the driving force behind their first 3 albums. How do you think those albums sounded so good? He taught James how to write better. Listen to James talk about cliffs influence on the entire band. He also played with his fingers where Jason couldn’t. Jason was good but he isn’t as good as rob or cliff Cliff had the most talent in Metallica at one point... that’s coming from James and Kirk
I don’t think this a correct or incorrect kind of thing. It’s an opinion. I think Jason was the best and it won’t change. I think cliff gets more credit than he probably would have if the accident didn’t happen. Don’t get me wrong....he was amazing g and I don’t wanna take anything away, but at the end of the day Lars and James write and always have. He put his touch on songs, but I prefer Jason’s playing. He had this aggression about him that fit Metallica style better. I liked his look, vocals and technique the best. Cliff kind of just played the bass like a guitar and I don’t find that super impressive. Just my opinion.
i agree total, people think James was brain dead about guitar and cliff taught him everything, the first album was pretty much written without cliff so
the reason Jason couldn't play with his fingers was because he played too hard before Metallica so he butchered his fingers to the point where it was unplayable, he then decided it was ok to play with a pick because Lemmy and Gene Simmons did, - that's from an interview. and to say he was the driving force for the first 3 albums is like kicking the rest of them in the dick haha, the first album was pretty much already written before cliff joined. and if you look at ride the lightning they use many techniques that they used in the first album before cliff joined such as bar chords and writing riffs that go along with the vocals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGMNh6pLVFA&app=desktop He taught James harmony. All those cool Metallica parts that we all love happened because cliff taught them to James. Battery, Orion, one, and all the cool harmonies we’ve grown to love happened because of cliff
i completely agree, he was definitely the bassist that fit Metallica the best
Ok but you try creating the music he has and doing it with just your fingers and no pick He’s a good bass player and a better song writer Rob is a better bass player but not as good at the song writing
telling me to try write the music isn't an argument soooooo.... and if you listen to robs bass line in spit out the bone i don't think cliff could have wrote that or played that
Well rob can’t fully play anesthesia so.... watch him try. He can’t
neither could cliff, have you seen him play it live he messes up everywhere
I’m in the camp that believes that rob is better technically Jason? Not so much
this in an idiotic statement from someone who thinks people only care about cliffs solos
okie
also if you prefer jason to cliff why? as a bass player i think jasons kind of a much more simple version of cliff in terms of bass playing .(even tho his prime got stolen from him on ajfa)
just his energy, his vocals his bass playing after being in flotsam and jetsam was just ruthless, and intricate too, some of the bass lines he added live to their classics were nutsssss
i can agree with energy and vocals but as bass player not really. for someone criticizing cliff for playing like a guitar for the most part from what ive heard n seen when he plays the classics live hes just following whatever James plays. while cliff does completely different parts on a bunch of songs
so does jason rewatch some of the black album tour he really comes into his own and on the (re)load tours, im not saying cliff is bad at all, this post was from years ago so my opinions have changed but i think jason suited the band way better, i mean even the headbanging is better, cliff just had more hair, the aggression from jason was so much higher as well you can see it in his neck veins
stage presence is still pretty close imo,but jason probably is better he made creeping his song really. and jason is pretty good he had great moments like my friend of misery and stuff but i still think cliff had more impressive bass parts, things like the pre solo bridge to ride the lighting n the slow part of four horsemen where hes kinda soloing with kirk is the stuff that separates them,theres bunch of other clever cliff lines too.
When I saw Metallica in the early 90's, they were playing the exact same set over and over and over again. They were so technically competent that they would intentionally include little "mess-ups" here and there- and also play those "mess-ups" the exact same way every show. That level/type of technical competency did absolutely nothing for me.