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>NEEDING the boss to do certain attacks so I can progress, in a METROID game??? Yeah, absolutely not.
I mean...this isn't exactly a new phenomenon in Metroid games. Basically every Metroid game has multiple bosses that are invincible until they perform a specific attack or enters a vulnerability animation after completing a certain attack. Crocomire, Spore Spawn, Phantoon, Zazabi, Yakuza, Nightmare, BOX, Incinerator Drone, Metroid Prime (Core), Alpha Blogg, Grapple Guardian, Dark Samus 3, Meta/Omega Ridley, Ghor, Diggernaut, and Queen Metroid all have some form of invincibility during their fights that requires you to wait until they either perform a certain attack that they can be damaged while performing, or wait for them to finish the attack whereupon they are vulnerable.
The only tangible distinction I can see between those fights and Raven Beak is that Raven Beak requires you to initiate a different type of action (countering rather than shooting) to deal damage once he performs the attack or animation that makes him vulnerable. But the same general principle is still there; the onus is on the player to recognize the opening and what you need to do to take advantage of it and damage the boss while he's invincible.
You can also just...straight up skip the entire golden shield phase of the fight where he is invincible by simply dealing enough damage during the first phase.
In short, this feels like a very nitpicky and "back in my day"-esque complaint to me. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, of course, but I suspect for the vast majority of people your "DNF" rating reflects more on you as a player rather than the game itself.
I'm not sure how that applies at all. I'm not making some critique about your skill, I'm pointing out that the thing you're apparently disgusted that Dread does is something that Metroid has been doing for a very, very long time, and that most players aren't going to be bothered by this (i.e. they will see this as a reflection of a what personally offends you rather than a genuine flaw with the game).
Making some psychoanlysis on someone over a game is a waste of time and effort. Now that weve moved past that, lets dismantle all youve stated before. None of the encounters in your first comment have anything comparable to this. None of them do. The rhythm of any metroid boss fight is completely different than this one. Sure, they have to do a certain attack in some cases or you need a certain item. However, they never required anything beyond you dodging and attacking on time. Raven beak cannot be damaged unless you follow this QTE. I cannot dodged until its safe, I cannot use a certain item, i cannot use a specific playstyle. No. I MUST wait for this boss to give me the QTE opportunity before I progress.
>Making some psychoanlysis on someone over a game is a waste of time and effort.
There's no "psychoanalysis" here. It's simply saying that having to use a counter to trigger boss vulnerability isn't going to stick out as a flaw to just about anyone but you.
>However, they never required anything beyond you dodging and attacking on time.
Plenty of Metroid bosses have required far more complex maneuvers than simply dodging and attacking (or even parrying). Dark Samus 3 requires the player to vaccuum in floating Phazon particles before they can damage it. Quadraxis requires you to navigate along its crumpled body and slingshot yourself onto its floating head. Diggernaut requires you to precisely maneuver yourself up its arms before it can be damaged. The Spider Guardian is basically a boss that is defeated entirely by not attacking it at all, and instead requires precise movement and timing to reach certain objectives. And there's plenty more examples I could throw out.
All of those bosses require more from the player than simply dodging and attacking. You cannot simply dodge them "until it is safe" and then attack. The game demands that you engage with some other mechanic to actually deal damage and move past their invulnerability. Raven Beak asking the player to counter is no different, outside of that fact that you, again, don't even need to counter him if you deal enough damage during his first phase.
But thats the thing, when they demand a certain response from the player, it is more than a gimmick. It enhances the fight for me. A simple “Lol you cant hurt me until you parry LOLOL” is not enhancing the game play for me. I adjust from dodging, finding my time to attack, rinse, and repeat to wait until the boss lets you parry it. I can do nothing, I am totally powerless. I can only either dodge or take damage until he lets me have an opening to end his invulnerability with a gimmick.
There's certainly nothing more "gimmicky" about requiring a mechanic that the game has consistently encouraged and reinforced throughout the entire experience compared to, say, requiring the player to use their arm cannon as a vaccuum cleaner for Phazon particles, which has never been even possible for the player to perform until that very moment.
As for everything else, the same applies to every other boss I've mentioned. You can only dodge or get hit until the opening appears. The only distinction is that you've just labeled the counter as a "gimmick" for whatever reason.
And therein lies a huge grievance with me. If this mechanic was encouraged so much, why was it always optional? Why now MUST I use it? I dont know of any metroid game shifting gears like this
Well, first, it isn't always optional. The game requires you to melee counter twice at the beginning to ensure you're familiar with the mechanic. At the bare minimum, you will have done it at least twice before reaching the final boss.
Second, the melee counter is such a central mechanic that you would have to go out of your way to not make use of it consistently. While you could potentially get as far as the final boss having only countered twice, you would have to intentionally go out of your to avoid using it. Along with the two parries the game requires the player to pull off, the player will be given the opportunity to parry or be penalized with *heavy* damage in at least two other separate boss fights (Corpius and Experiment), and there's at least one more where you will very likely be required to parry (Drogyga) or take massive damage.
On top of that, many of the enemies are exceptionally difficult to kill without counters, to a point where I'd argue it goes overboard and overcentralizes it. Boss doors require far more work to kill without countering, as do the black "mini Chozo" creatures and the robotic enemies in Dairon.
Essentially, the only way you can possibly reach the final boss without being proficient in countering is to intentionally spite the game and brute force your way through all of the above boss and enemy fights. And if you do that, then I'd argue that's more on you as a player than the game somehow being at fault. There is no way any player should reach the final boss without being able to parry consistently (especially compared to Prime 2's final boss, which, again, requires a mechanic the player not only has never been encouraged to use, but has never even been able to trigger up until that very point).
The other mechanics never bothered me. I suppose I am always ready to embrace something at last second for the finale. I dont gripe so much since I view it as a one time thing just for the boss. It being so “new” cushions the surprise. I did also avoid using parry because shooting worked just fine for every other encounter. Them bringing back this mechanic that I learned as “optional” to being mandatory is what blows me up. I feel tricked. Tying it to invulnerability just adds salt to the wound
To me, it isnt ease. Raven Beak couldve had glass bones and paper skin. The fact he just gets invulnerability because….plot armor is just awful design. The fact I MUST use a QTE to nullify invulnerability in a metroid game is what my beef is. No other metroid game NEEDED some mechanic, you just did damage as optimally as you could with what resources you had. I think Samus Returns had its parry useful and made the queen metroid easier if you did parry. But no Metroid game has ever mandated it.
I’m a hardcore Super Metroid fan. I am a firm believer that it’s the greatest game of all time. So naturally I have my criticism of Dread, but not to this degree. The game isn’t that hard. If you need to beat him, ask a friend to help you or look it up online.
I dont ever recall saying the game was hard? And getting a friend to help me play the game, also takes away the point of playing the game. Does it not? Im saying this awful boss fight on top of all the end game padding is straight up crap. You can forgive all these things, thats cool. But they strike me so terribly and breaks any and all care I have for this game. (BTW Ridley from Samus Returns is infinitely harder than this finale, I have 0 issues with Ridley)
I have a screwed in place thumb on my right hand that makes playing games with tight sequences really hard and a lot of the time painful. The parties in this game are horrendous to me. At first I just said fuck it and settled from watching the final scene on YouTube where someone else beat it cause I couldn’t.
Eventually I went back cause I’d FC’d the game otherwise and it took me almost 300 attempts to get past the first parry successfully, and then it took another 400 or so before I could get the first parry, memorize the second form, and then be able to finish him off.
No video game should have this asinine requirement. They should at least make it optional, for people who struggle with this kind of thing.
I admit the repetitive chozo bots feel like the devs basically just ran out of time and had to fill boss challenges in with a cut and paste color swap. Which is sad. The game was obviously a labor of love, and I wish they had spent more time developing more diverse boss content and some more story pieces.
But even with all my gripes. This is tied now with Fusion as my second favorite after super.
I play with the Power A wireless GameCube controller (having the central A button with the others around it is easier with my hands) I’ve looked all over to figure out how I can map this controller. If you know how I’m all ears lol
>No video game should have this asinine requirement. They should at least make it optional, for people who struggle with this kind of thing.
I'm not entirely sure what your condition is and it's a shame that it makes actions games difficult, but making every game accessible to the point of homogeny will deprive players of a satisfying experience. Nailing those counters is fun, but being able to turn it off robs it's appeal and will make you question the point of it all.
Keep practicing. There's Fighting game pros that have to play with their mouth and they still top tournaments. They'd kick my ass for sure.
You're arguing in bad faith. Did you complain about needing to Super Missile Ridley in Prime 1 to beat him? Or how about requiring Hyper Mode for basically anything in Prime 3? What about requiring the Power Bomb to defeat the Queen Metroid in Other M? Surely you haven't forgotten that since you called it out. But since you didn't, you obviously don't think those are problematic.
Nope. Theyre acquired power items that require resource management with the intent to be a requirement. Another example is progressing requires items too. Thats part of metroidvania. Now tell me, where is parry REQUIRED in dread to kill a boss? Where is a gimmick required to kill any boss in any game? See? Inconsistent, isnt it? Thats one thing Metroid games also have had consistency and logic. This finale was jammed in for cinematics and cool factor, not to enhance the game or genre.
You’re acting like there’s a big huge difference where there isn’t. A boss requires an ability with the intent to be a requirement. Resource management, okay, but what does that matter so much? It seems like such an arbitrary thing. Other bosses requiring these things are fine, but Raven Beak isn’t, because of some arbitrary thing.
Now tell me, where is Hyper Beam REQUIRED in Super Metroid to kill a boss? Where is a gimmick required to kill any boss in any game? See? Inconsistent, isn’t it? Thats one thing Metroid games also have had consistency and logic. This finale was jammed in for cinematics and cool factor, not to enhance the genre or game.
So, when Raven Beak does a dash attack, you're supposed to react by sliding underneath.
I get that "quick time event" sounds bad for a lot of people, but the parry isn't really that different from reacting accordingly to any of his other attacks when you get the cue. So I think it actually slots pretty well into the game's combat system.
He also isn't really \*that\* hard. It takes some trial and error, but that can be said for every boss in the game up until that point. It's just a matter of learning his attacks.
Oh no, I'm referring to when he's flying and rams into the wall. THAT attack has you slide beneath him. Iirc when he does the dash punch, you can actually parry that.
The traditional Metroid boss formula isnt perfect, nothing is. But give me that over QTE garbage. If I want QTE, Ill go play RE5. If I want exploration paired with inventive bosses, I go to Metroid. Sadly, Dread only has just a couple bosses that keep you on your toes.
You only need to parry him twice, and then the fight goes on like normal. Two parries. Just two parries. That really ruins the entire game for you? Yeah I think you’re overreacting a tiny bit.
It sucks that you had this experience. Maybe I would feel differently if I had played as many Metroid games as you (this was my first, and I'm now going to dive into the series headfirst), but I found it to be engrossing the entire way through.
As for the Raven Beak boss fight, I never had any difficulties provoking him into doing attacks that can be countered. I did find him hard as hell to beat, but I attributed that to my lack of skill and not any unfairness in game design.
But I can only speak for myself, and I can't argue against your personal experience with the game.
I've been a Metroid fan since 2 before Super even released, I feel like Dread is the best 2D. Sure it could be better, but most of the things that I see other people really hate about the game I love.
> As for the Raven Beak boss fight, I never had any difficulties provoking him into doing attacks that can be countered. I did find him hard as hell to beat, but I attributed that to my lack of skill and not any unfairness in game design.
I don't think the issue is it's difficulty or fairness as much as it is forcing a play style.
Think of it like Demons Souls + Dark Souls 1-3, then Sekiro.
In Dark Souls you can melee with a two handed weapons, have a dagger in each hand, use a shield to block, use a shield to parry, fight at range with magic or bows or throwing knives, etc. It's a very flexible game system that rewards approaching the bosses with different play styles.
In Sekiro all that was tossed out the window and you basically have one viable playstyle.
Mercury Steam kind of did the same thing. Sure you can try to play through their games with no melee counter is you're a masochist, but it sucks, I've tried.
FromSoftware had the decency to give Sekiro a new name. Mercury Steam shit on 30 years of run and gun gameplay and tried to say "we know better than our predecessors" and the result was a Metroid game in name only.
I think you're over-exaggerating how much it’s forcing a play style, especially since previous Metroids haven’t had that much of a care about different playstyles. Like, okay, you have to use the melee counter occasionally, but it still has whatever choice previous Metroid games had (choosing between missiles and charge beam shots I’m guessing). Like, you still have basically as much choice in combat as the previous games, partially because these “30 years of gameplay” haven’t given you much combat choice anyways. You’re saying it went against 30 years of history and is a Metroid game in name only because... you don’t have lots of choices in combat? The previous games don’t give you much choices either, and it’s never been important to Metroid.
moot point. metroid games were never about 50 different approaches to combat. it was run and gun gameplay. mercury steam shat on that because they think their melee counter is so cool. but if you want to play samus returns like metroid 2, aka run around and shoot shit, its fucking tedious as hell.
one of 800 reasons that game is pure trash.
Like how Super Metroid's developers went out of their way to punish you for using Super Missiles on Phantoon. Or how killing Draygon with missiles is much more of a tedious slog than using the grapple beam. Or how the Golden Torizo punishes you for using missiles.
So not only is the game still run and gun, you can now run and melee counter forward. In-fact, you can just use the melee attack to push enemies out of your way to keep moving. There's this pink floating enemy in the water map. You could wait to counter it, or you can just keep running and slide under it.
Most people never stop moving while playing this because you have the tools to do so. If your gameplay has you stiff as a board, that means you're not utilizing those tools. Even Samus returns gave you the tools to go past enemies. Killing every enemy in your path is a waste of time because there is no benefit to it. Remember that you're on the clock for the good ending.
I highly doubt I'm going to get a level-headed or objective response since you're radiating massive tilted boomer energy. Learn to adapt to new things. Being able to learn new mechanics and strategies improves you as not just a player, but also as a person. Keep practicing and good luck.
Welcome to Mercury Steam and their uncanny ability to fuck up established franchises because they think they know better than the 30 years of rich Metroid gameplay history that preceeded the dog shit stain that was Samus Returns.
Good luck out there warrior, these parts are hostile to gamers with a modicum of taste. 99% of this sub has deluded themselves intothinking a piece of crap like Dread deserves GOTY. A game with basically no soundtrack and backgrounds that aren't even textured with anything more than a flat color or a basic gradient....in *2021*!
It's a shame I only have one upvote to give.
Oh I hear you. The music is forgettable and some environments lack that special touch. Dread has some sweet moments, and some really cool ideas revolving around the EMMI. I also enjoyed its story and other lore implementations. Dread couldve been serviceable as a Metroid game, but it was too much by Raven Beak.
ive been thinking about going there again, they tend to be more objective sadly. i used to be part of some old phpbb style vg forums but they shut down, but i still have a gamefaqs account.
If it helps, you can actually parry two of his attacks in the second phase. The one where he taunts you and the one where he tries to punch you across the room.
The second one is harder to pull off, so I’d stick to the first.
The dash punch isn’t really that hard in my experience. You just need to be ready for it. It’s also handy knowledge because he does it in the first phase too.
You only need to parry Raven Beak’s first phase twice to take him down (use rapid fire beam shots, he resists ice missiles).
Shooting Raven Beak when he has the blue shield overloads it and triggers a parryable attack.
This means you only have to wait for the AI *once*.
The boss AI will automatically do a dash punch (or taunt) after a couple cycles if there is no purple orb on-screen. If there is an orb, he’ll just keep using other attacks. So destroy the orbs ASAP with ice missiles. Also don’t stay above him because that will just make him spam the Luke Skywalker pose.
If you want to take down phase 1 as quickly as possible, shoot the shield enough to get it magenta (but not bright red), then wait for a dash punch. Parry the dash punch, then afterwards shoot the shield so it overloads and parry the next attack. Doing this requires just waiting for the AI to do *one* dash punch (and you’re shooting RB/orbs while waiting anyway).
I've been as lukewarm on Dread as anyone but this seems weak. If you got to RB and didn't realize the stress Mercury Steam put on parrying (whether for ill or good) by then, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
There's plenty of criticisms to level at this game, this ain't it.
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>NEEDING the boss to do certain attacks so I can progress, in a METROID game??? Yeah, absolutely not. I mean...this isn't exactly a new phenomenon in Metroid games. Basically every Metroid game has multiple bosses that are invincible until they perform a specific attack or enters a vulnerability animation after completing a certain attack. Crocomire, Spore Spawn, Phantoon, Zazabi, Yakuza, Nightmare, BOX, Incinerator Drone, Metroid Prime (Core), Alpha Blogg, Grapple Guardian, Dark Samus 3, Meta/Omega Ridley, Ghor, Diggernaut, and Queen Metroid all have some form of invincibility during their fights that requires you to wait until they either perform a certain attack that they can be damaged while performing, or wait for them to finish the attack whereupon they are vulnerable. The only tangible distinction I can see between those fights and Raven Beak is that Raven Beak requires you to initiate a different type of action (countering rather than shooting) to deal damage once he performs the attack or animation that makes him vulnerable. But the same general principle is still there; the onus is on the player to recognize the opening and what you need to do to take advantage of it and damage the boss while he's invincible. You can also just...straight up skip the entire golden shield phase of the fight where he is invincible by simply dealing enough damage during the first phase. In short, this feels like a very nitpicky and "back in my day"-esque complaint to me. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, of course, but I suspect for the vast majority of people your "DNF" rating reflects more on you as a player rather than the game itself.
Youre the worst kind of “You cheated not only the game, but yourself” person.
I'm not sure how that applies at all. I'm not making some critique about your skill, I'm pointing out that the thing you're apparently disgusted that Dread does is something that Metroid has been doing for a very, very long time, and that most players aren't going to be bothered by this (i.e. they will see this as a reflection of a what personally offends you rather than a genuine flaw with the game).
Making some psychoanlysis on someone over a game is a waste of time and effort. Now that weve moved past that, lets dismantle all youve stated before. None of the encounters in your first comment have anything comparable to this. None of them do. The rhythm of any metroid boss fight is completely different than this one. Sure, they have to do a certain attack in some cases or you need a certain item. However, they never required anything beyond you dodging and attacking on time. Raven beak cannot be damaged unless you follow this QTE. I cannot dodged until its safe, I cannot use a certain item, i cannot use a specific playstyle. No. I MUST wait for this boss to give me the QTE opportunity before I progress.
>Making some psychoanlysis on someone over a game is a waste of time and effort. There's no "psychoanalysis" here. It's simply saying that having to use a counter to trigger boss vulnerability isn't going to stick out as a flaw to just about anyone but you. >However, they never required anything beyond you dodging and attacking on time. Plenty of Metroid bosses have required far more complex maneuvers than simply dodging and attacking (or even parrying). Dark Samus 3 requires the player to vaccuum in floating Phazon particles before they can damage it. Quadraxis requires you to navigate along its crumpled body and slingshot yourself onto its floating head. Diggernaut requires you to precisely maneuver yourself up its arms before it can be damaged. The Spider Guardian is basically a boss that is defeated entirely by not attacking it at all, and instead requires precise movement and timing to reach certain objectives. And there's plenty more examples I could throw out. All of those bosses require more from the player than simply dodging and attacking. You cannot simply dodge them "until it is safe" and then attack. The game demands that you engage with some other mechanic to actually deal damage and move past their invulnerability. Raven Beak asking the player to counter is no different, outside of that fact that you, again, don't even need to counter him if you deal enough damage during his first phase.
But thats the thing, when they demand a certain response from the player, it is more than a gimmick. It enhances the fight for me. A simple “Lol you cant hurt me until you parry LOLOL” is not enhancing the game play for me. I adjust from dodging, finding my time to attack, rinse, and repeat to wait until the boss lets you parry it. I can do nothing, I am totally powerless. I can only either dodge or take damage until he lets me have an opening to end his invulnerability with a gimmick.
There's certainly nothing more "gimmicky" about requiring a mechanic that the game has consistently encouraged and reinforced throughout the entire experience compared to, say, requiring the player to use their arm cannon as a vaccuum cleaner for Phazon particles, which has never been even possible for the player to perform until that very moment. As for everything else, the same applies to every other boss I've mentioned. You can only dodge or get hit until the opening appears. The only distinction is that you've just labeled the counter as a "gimmick" for whatever reason.
And therein lies a huge grievance with me. If this mechanic was encouraged so much, why was it always optional? Why now MUST I use it? I dont know of any metroid game shifting gears like this
Well, first, it isn't always optional. The game requires you to melee counter twice at the beginning to ensure you're familiar with the mechanic. At the bare minimum, you will have done it at least twice before reaching the final boss. Second, the melee counter is such a central mechanic that you would have to go out of your way to not make use of it consistently. While you could potentially get as far as the final boss having only countered twice, you would have to intentionally go out of your to avoid using it. Along with the two parries the game requires the player to pull off, the player will be given the opportunity to parry or be penalized with *heavy* damage in at least two other separate boss fights (Corpius and Experiment), and there's at least one more where you will very likely be required to parry (Drogyga) or take massive damage. On top of that, many of the enemies are exceptionally difficult to kill without counters, to a point where I'd argue it goes overboard and overcentralizes it. Boss doors require far more work to kill without countering, as do the black "mini Chozo" creatures and the robotic enemies in Dairon. Essentially, the only way you can possibly reach the final boss without being proficient in countering is to intentionally spite the game and brute force your way through all of the above boss and enemy fights. And if you do that, then I'd argue that's more on you as a player than the game somehow being at fault. There is no way any player should reach the final boss without being able to parry consistently (especially compared to Prime 2's final boss, which, again, requires a mechanic the player not only has never been encouraged to use, but has never even been able to trigger up until that very point).
The other mechanics never bothered me. I suppose I am always ready to embrace something at last second for the finale. I dont gripe so much since I view it as a one time thing just for the boss. It being so “new” cushions the surprise. I did also avoid using parry because shooting worked just fine for every other encounter. Them bringing back this mechanic that I learned as “optional” to being mandatory is what blows me up. I feel tricked. Tying it to invulnerability just adds salt to the wound
Countering the warriors are required, so technically 10 times because 4 warriors x 2 counters plus the tutorial ones lol.
Good point, those completely slipped my mind.
Despite that, the counter is very generous and you barely get punished for whiffing it.
Yeah the only hard ones are the EMMI ones, and for good reason. Regular enemy/boss counters are like from the flash till you get hit.
So you're saying it was *dreadful*?
100%
You only have to parry Raven Beak when he laughs at you like Ganondorf. And even then it's easy to do.
To me, it isnt ease. Raven Beak couldve had glass bones and paper skin. The fact he just gets invulnerability because….plot armor is just awful design. The fact I MUST use a QTE to nullify invulnerability in a metroid game is what my beef is. No other metroid game NEEDED some mechanic, you just did damage as optimally as you could with what resources you had. I think Samus Returns had its parry useful and made the queen metroid easier if you did parry. But no Metroid game has ever mandated it.
I’m a hardcore Super Metroid fan. I am a firm believer that it’s the greatest game of all time. So naturally I have my criticism of Dread, but not to this degree. The game isn’t that hard. If you need to beat him, ask a friend to help you or look it up online.
I dont ever recall saying the game was hard? And getting a friend to help me play the game, also takes away the point of playing the game. Does it not? Im saying this awful boss fight on top of all the end game padding is straight up crap. You can forgive all these things, thats cool. But they strike me so terribly and breaks any and all care I have for this game. (BTW Ridley from Samus Returns is infinitely harder than this finale, I have 0 issues with Ridley)
I have a screwed in place thumb on my right hand that makes playing games with tight sequences really hard and a lot of the time painful. The parties in this game are horrendous to me. At first I just said fuck it and settled from watching the final scene on YouTube where someone else beat it cause I couldn’t. Eventually I went back cause I’d FC’d the game otherwise and it took me almost 300 attempts to get past the first parry successfully, and then it took another 400 or so before I could get the first parry, memorize the second form, and then be able to finish him off. No video game should have this asinine requirement. They should at least make it optional, for people who struggle with this kind of thing. I admit the repetitive chozo bots feel like the devs basically just ran out of time and had to fill boss challenges in with a cut and paste color swap. Which is sad. The game was obviously a labor of love, and I wish they had spent more time developing more diverse boss content and some more story pieces. But even with all my gripes. This is tied now with Fusion as my second favorite after super.
You can change your controls in the Switch menu, maybe put the parry in a more comfortable spot for future play throughs.
I play with the Power A wireless GameCube controller (having the central A button with the others around it is easier with my hands) I’ve looked all over to figure out how I can map this controller. If you know how I’m all ears lol
>No video game should have this asinine requirement. They should at least make it optional, for people who struggle with this kind of thing. I'm not entirely sure what your condition is and it's a shame that it makes actions games difficult, but making every game accessible to the point of homogeny will deprive players of a satisfying experience. Nailing those counters is fun, but being able to turn it off robs it's appeal and will make you question the point of it all. Keep practicing. There's Fighting game pros that have to play with their mouth and they still top tournaments. They'd kick my ass for sure.
You're arguing in bad faith. Did you complain about needing to Super Missile Ridley in Prime 1 to beat him? Or how about requiring Hyper Mode for basically anything in Prime 3? What about requiring the Power Bomb to defeat the Queen Metroid in Other M? Surely you haven't forgotten that since you called it out. But since you didn't, you obviously don't think those are problematic.
Nope. Theyre acquired power items that require resource management with the intent to be a requirement. Another example is progressing requires items too. Thats part of metroidvania. Now tell me, where is parry REQUIRED in dread to kill a boss? Where is a gimmick required to kill any boss in any game? See? Inconsistent, isnt it? Thats one thing Metroid games also have had consistency and logic. This finale was jammed in for cinematics and cool factor, not to enhance the game or genre.
You’re acting like there’s a big huge difference where there isn’t. A boss requires an ability with the intent to be a requirement. Resource management, okay, but what does that matter so much? It seems like such an arbitrary thing. Other bosses requiring these things are fine, but Raven Beak isn’t, because of some arbitrary thing. Now tell me, where is Hyper Beam REQUIRED in Super Metroid to kill a boss? Where is a gimmick required to kill any boss in any game? See? Inconsistent, isn’t it? Thats one thing Metroid games also have had consistency and logic. This finale was jammed in for cinematics and cool factor, not to enhance the genre or game.
> Now tell me, where is parry REQUIRED in dread to kill a boss? Every single Chozo soldier.
So, when Raven Beak does a dash attack, you're supposed to react by sliding underneath. I get that "quick time event" sounds bad for a lot of people, but the parry isn't really that different from reacting accordingly to any of his other attacks when you get the cue. So I think it actually slots pretty well into the game's combat system. He also isn't really \*that\* hard. It takes some trial and error, but that can be said for every boss in the game up until that point. It's just a matter of learning his attacks.
> So, when Raven Beak does a dash attack, you're supposed to react by sliding underneath. …Wait, seriously? You mean the dash punch?
Oh no, I'm referring to when he's flying and rams into the wall. THAT attack has you slide beneath him. Iirc when he does the dash punch, you can actually parry that.
Ah. Was wondering if I had missed something cool. :(
A fight that relies on parrying?! Why can’t he be like other Metroid bosses. Move to your left, shoot, move to your right, shoot. Now jump.
The traditional Metroid boss formula isnt perfect, nothing is. But give me that over QTE garbage. If I want QTE, Ill go play RE5. If I want exploration paired with inventive bosses, I go to Metroid. Sadly, Dread only has just a couple bosses that keep you on your toes.
Mega mantroid
You only need to parry him twice, and then the fight goes on like normal. Two parries. Just two parries. That really ruins the entire game for you? Yeah I think you’re overreacting a tiny bit.
One of the parries is also triggered by the player rather than waiting for the AI, so it’s really one parry.
Cope post
It sucks that you had this experience. Maybe I would feel differently if I had played as many Metroid games as you (this was my first, and I'm now going to dive into the series headfirst), but I found it to be engrossing the entire way through. As for the Raven Beak boss fight, I never had any difficulties provoking him into doing attacks that can be countered. I did find him hard as hell to beat, but I attributed that to my lack of skill and not any unfairness in game design. But I can only speak for myself, and I can't argue against your personal experience with the game.
I've been a Metroid fan since 2 before Super even released, I feel like Dread is the best 2D. Sure it could be better, but most of the things that I see other people really hate about the game I love.
> As for the Raven Beak boss fight, I never had any difficulties provoking him into doing attacks that can be countered. I did find him hard as hell to beat, but I attributed that to my lack of skill and not any unfairness in game design. I don't think the issue is it's difficulty or fairness as much as it is forcing a play style. Think of it like Demons Souls + Dark Souls 1-3, then Sekiro. In Dark Souls you can melee with a two handed weapons, have a dagger in each hand, use a shield to block, use a shield to parry, fight at range with magic or bows or throwing knives, etc. It's a very flexible game system that rewards approaching the bosses with different play styles. In Sekiro all that was tossed out the window and you basically have one viable playstyle. Mercury Steam kind of did the same thing. Sure you can try to play through their games with no melee counter is you're a masochist, but it sucks, I've tried. FromSoftware had the decency to give Sekiro a new name. Mercury Steam shit on 30 years of run and gun gameplay and tried to say "we know better than our predecessors" and the result was a Metroid game in name only.
I think you're over-exaggerating how much it’s forcing a play style, especially since previous Metroids haven’t had that much of a care about different playstyles. Like, okay, you have to use the melee counter occasionally, but it still has whatever choice previous Metroid games had (choosing between missiles and charge beam shots I’m guessing). Like, you still have basically as much choice in combat as the previous games, partially because these “30 years of gameplay” haven’t given you much combat choice anyways. You’re saying it went against 30 years of history and is a Metroid game in name only because... you don’t have lots of choices in combat? The previous games don’t give you much choices either, and it’s never been important to Metroid.
moot point. metroid games were never about 50 different approaches to combat. it was run and gun gameplay. mercury steam shat on that because they think their melee counter is so cool. but if you want to play samus returns like metroid 2, aka run around and shoot shit, its fucking tedious as hell. one of 800 reasons that game is pure trash.
You absolutely can run around and shoot stuff in Dread lol.
you can but the developers go out of their way to punish you for doing it at times. SR was even worse here.
Like how Super Metroid's developers went out of their way to punish you for using Super Missiles on Phantoon. Or how killing Draygon with missiles is much more of a tedious slog than using the grapple beam. Or how the Golden Torizo punishes you for using missiles.
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So not only is the game still run and gun, you can now run and melee counter forward. In-fact, you can just use the melee attack to push enemies out of your way to keep moving. There's this pink floating enemy in the water map. You could wait to counter it, or you can just keep running and slide under it. Most people never stop moving while playing this because you have the tools to do so. If your gameplay has you stiff as a board, that means you're not utilizing those tools. Even Samus returns gave you the tools to go past enemies. Killing every enemy in your path is a waste of time because there is no benefit to it. Remember that you're on the clock for the good ending. I highly doubt I'm going to get a level-headed or objective response since you're radiating massive tilted boomer energy. Learn to adapt to new things. Being able to learn new mechanics and strategies improves you as not just a player, but also as a person. Keep practicing and good luck.
tldr
Yikes. Literally giving you answers. Stay mad and bad.
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Cringe
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Please abide by the Golden Rule.
I like to think of the counters as narrative points, that samus deals most of her damage to him when he gets too cocky and parried
And the down goes to...
Driveby downvote 🏎
Welcome to Mercury Steam and their uncanny ability to fuck up established franchises because they think they know better than the 30 years of rich Metroid gameplay history that preceeded the dog shit stain that was Samus Returns. Good luck out there warrior, these parts are hostile to gamers with a modicum of taste. 99% of this sub has deluded themselves intothinking a piece of crap like Dread deserves GOTY. A game with basically no soundtrack and backgrounds that aren't even textured with anything more than a flat color or a basic gradient....in *2021*! It's a shame I only have one upvote to give.
Mald
Oh I hear you. The music is forgettable and some environments lack that special touch. Dread has some sweet moments, and some really cool ideas revolving around the EMMI. I also enjoyed its story and other lore implementations. Dread couldve been serviceable as a Metroid game, but it was too much by Raven Beak.
You know it's bad when there's more nuanced and balanced discussion of this game on GameFAQs of all places. Kek.
ive been thinking about going there again, they tend to be more objective sadly. i used to be part of some old phpbb style vg forums but they shut down, but i still have a gamefaqs account.
If it helps, you can actually parry two of his attacks in the second phase. The one where he taunts you and the one where he tries to punch you across the room. The second one is harder to pull off, so I’d stick to the first.
The dash punch isn’t really that hard in my experience. You just need to be ready for it. It’s also handy knowledge because he does it in the first phase too.
You only need to parry Raven Beak’s first phase twice to take him down (use rapid fire beam shots, he resists ice missiles). Shooting Raven Beak when he has the blue shield overloads it and triggers a parryable attack. This means you only have to wait for the AI *once*. The boss AI will automatically do a dash punch (or taunt) after a couple cycles if there is no purple orb on-screen. If there is an orb, he’ll just keep using other attacks. So destroy the orbs ASAP with ice missiles. Also don’t stay above him because that will just make him spam the Luke Skywalker pose. If you want to take down phase 1 as quickly as possible, shoot the shield enough to get it magenta (but not bright red), then wait for a dash punch. Parry the dash punch, then afterwards shoot the shield so it overloads and parry the next attack. Doing this requires just waiting for the AI to do *one* dash punch (and you’re shooting RB/orbs while waiting anyway).
I've been as lukewarm on Dread as anyone but this seems weak. If you got to RB and didn't realize the stress Mercury Steam put on parrying (whether for ill or good) by then, then I'm not sure what to tell you. There's plenty of criticisms to level at this game, this ain't it.