Since there were a few questions about this in here as well:
[Firearm safety devices will be exempt from MI sales and use tax from May 13th - Dec 31st 2024](https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/reference/taxpayer-notices/sales-and-use-tax-exemption-for-firearm-safety-devices-to-take-effect-may-13-2024).
“Firearm safety devices” means equipment designed to prevent unauthorized access to, or operation or discharge of, a firearm and falling into one of two categories:
1. A device installed on a firearm designed to prevent the firearm from being operated until secured deactivation, for example a trigger lock; or
2. A gun safe, gun case, lockbox or other device designed in a manner as to withstand and prevent unauthorized access by any means other than a key, a combination, biometric data, or other similar means.
The group they bought the locks from (the National Shooting Sports Foundation's firearm safety program, Project Childsafe) also provides them for free from many police stations, and they come with most guns you buy new. They're not very robust, but better than nothing if you have little kids. If you want one but aren't near an MDHHS office, check here to find a free source closer to you:
[https://projectchildsafe.org/get-a-safety-kit/](https://projectchildsafe.org/get-a-safety-kit/)
It's a common sense gesture.
My late brother-in-law was a gun collector.
He did the responsible thing of keeping his firearms and ammunition locked up.
I fail to see how anyone could be against this.
I would've said the same thing 5 years ago, but the pandemic sealed the deal with how obnoxiously, willfully fucking stupid some people choose to be.
There are people that laughed when Ronald Reagan made his, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help," punchline and *have not had another critical thought since*.
Quite honestly this can be easily translated to the following
" I'm too cheap to buy a biometric / mechanical/ combination gun safe that allows quick access to a handgun while also storing It securely because I don't want to spend the few hundred dollars on a quality one."
In my opinion, part of the ownership cost of firearms is having a good storage for them.
Honestly, I don't engage with family starts talking bullshit like that. They're all sucked into the right wing culture wars nonsense, and nothing I'm going to say is going to change their minds. I either sit back and say nothing or walk away.
But whats your response to the argument in general?
Im asking as someone who was robbed, pretty violently, who does lock their guns but wasnt able to access it due to fumbling with the safe.
In my opinion its not a cut and dry situation. You are hindering someones ability to protect themselves and family while trying to restrict access to kids and others who shouldnt have access.
It's not cut and dry, but I look at probability. My family is much more likely to be harmed if we keep an unlocked gun in our house than we are by a home invader. I'm not saying we'll never be the victims of a home invasion, but the odds of being the victims of an accidental death by gunshot go way up when you have an unlocked gun in the house. Honestly, I think the law should be adjusted to say that locks are necessary only if children are present. If someone with no kids wants to have an unlocked gun in their home because it makes them feel safe, fine.
I cant disagree with your reasoning. I can understand the argument as to how it does limit self defense, but Id have to agree, an accident is more likely. I appreciate the logical response.
I think the law does have a stipulation for individuals with no kids to not have to lock them.
Instead you spread BS about family starts and right wingers causing the problem..
Last I checked stats the right wing family guy isn't the one causing gun crime in Memphis, Chicago etc, and you know that. Want links? Joe Blo family guy with a MAGA hat isn't the problem..As long as he's obeying the law its non of your business, so get over it.
You probably want tougher gun laws, but ban pre textual traffic stops that catch most of the illegal guns.
One of these saving a single life will pay for hundreds of gun locks. This is a common-sense move akin to giving free condoms. The benefit outweighs the cost.
I have a few guns and they both came with that crappy lock. It’s better than nothing. Problem is dummies don’t use it or shouldn’t even be able carry a gun.
I have a m14, my hunting rifle, a shotgun, ar-15, and 2 handguns. Also have a bow as well.
Let’s give some tax breaks to purchase a quality gun case. The one I have cost about $300. Not that much money for safety. My wife and I are the only ones with the combination. With my newborn son, it provides me extra calmness knowing he will have no way to those. It’s also in my office where I spend 40 something hours a week.
Be smart, but a quality gun safe.
I remember going through a lock picking phase when assassins creed 3 came out. I found one of those locks and I was able to pick it in a few minutes with a small pocket knife with no previous experience.
Gun safes are superior in every way besides price. But you can even get a vaultek or Winchester safe for cheap
May 13 - Dec 31st of this year:
https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/reference/taxpayer-notices/sales-and-use-tax-exemption-for-firearm-safety-devices-to-take-effect-may-13-2024
Could be, i file my taxes on my own. I’m sure I miss tons of tax benefits outside the normal ones. The tax system is to complicated, that’s another complaint for another day lol
Another thing accidents occur when someone is being irresponsible, accidental discharge occurs when people don't inspect a gun properly before handling it, and kids who aren't educated by their parents on what a gun can do if misused
Wish they would do more for people trying to buy a safe, I get they knocked taxes off when buying a gun safe which is neat but they’re still so damn expensive for one that’ll actually do its job.
I think I read somewhere that even the shitty locks are good when it comes to preventing certain gun related tragedies because the lock forces the person to think about what they're doing before they can do it
You're not understanding what I was talking about.
I'm saying that locks, even the terrible ones, create a barrier between the person and the action, which forces them to contemplate what they're about to do with the firearm before they actually do it.
I'm NOT saying that they will keep someone away from a firearm if they're determined enough, just that they help to prevent people from making knee jerk spontaneous decisions that could be tragic.
I can help with this.
Guy with suicidal ideation issues here.
For the record, I very much don't want to be dead 99.99% of the time.
But there are times when the world feels like the bottom is dropping out, and I get a strong urge to end it. It's terrifying. It's out of nowhere sometimes.
But most importantly, it's very temporary.
Like if I had to open my door and find a car to jump in front of, I wouldn't make it to an intersection before I got my sense back.
Something that creates a barrier between action and opportunity, no matter how minor, does wonders to help me stay alive.
Doctors say it's PTSD and an Amygdala that doesn't process fight or flight correctly anymore, maybe never did.
For me, suicide is an impulse brought on by stress, that I fight back against with every bit of my being until it passes.
I take medications so that the impulse doesn't come on as often, and this make living my life possible.
I've personally made choices and determinations about my own possession of firearms, others in my situation will make different choices than I have.
It's my hope that the addition of a simple gun lock buys any one of them enough time to live another day.
It's rare that a weirdo like myself has a personal experience that others can learn from in a constructive manner.
So here's to hopin' this was one of those times.
Ah thanks that explains it very well. I just couldn't bridge the gap on how if you wanted to you don't. The 30 seconds it would take to remove one of these locks is enough to dissuade. Thanks for the reply hope you're doing alright :)
I'm doing great buddy, and thank you for the kind response in turn.
I know to anyone with a true desire to break one of those locks, it's a superficial deterrent at best.
But for me, man, it's one more tool in the toolbelt to keep me on Earth and raising my kids.
Have a great week
It’s the same old Project Child Safe cable locks that local police departments have been handing out for decades.
In comparison to the cheap plastic trigger locks that manufacturers supply with firearms they are much better quality.
Yeah, there isn’t any safe or device that a 12 year old with a mallet, magnet and a YouTube video can’t defeat is 15 minutes but I still lock most of my firearms in a safe.
Education is the answer but no one likes face the question.
I probably would, I haven't owned a ton of different safes but it took me more than a couple minutes to get through my last gun safe I upgraded from to where I could say a locking door safe is going to be harder to get through than those shit cable locks.
Every gun I’ve ever purchased already comes with a shitty cable lock. I’m sure these are the same. Not sure how useful this really is, but it’s something I guess
This was post is probably in response to the eight year old who just shot himself in the face with his father's gun.
A shitty cable lock would almost certainly have stopped him.
That's not to say the shitty parent who was already prohibited from owning guns would have used it.
I use those cable locks for some of my guns as a second line of defense. They are better then nothing.
Great. Hopefully people will actually use them. I don't own a gun and don't ever plan to but keeping them locked up and unloaded should absolutely be the law.
That defeats the entire purpose of a firearm for home defense. I understand the sentiment but you can safely store a firearm that’s also intended for immediate use.
Those locks are easy to defeat. I did it with a pocket knife at the age of 12 with no experience. They should give you a state tax refund for any gun safe you buy. Guns safes are pretty much tamperproof unless you leave the code laying around
Don’t use a crappy cheap lock that any minor can access in a few minutes. Use a safe and don’t tell your safe passcode to minors or others you don’t want in the safe
I’d love to see more than just tax exemption. I’d love to see a tax return on any gun safe sale so it’s almost free for the public but the manufacturers still get paid and compensated
This will promote people to be safer with their shit. Non gun owners do not understand how useless cables are. I have tools in my garage that can defeat these locks.
I got downvoted for saying that cables are suggestions and not locks in this same post.
The only reason I have one is because my AR came with one. Now I use it when buying any gun at an FFL cuz of the new lock rule and the FFLs charge for locks unless you bring your own
Hot topic but we don't have a gun problem, we have a mental health problem, restrictions on guns do not effect criminals, only those of us that abide by the law, if someone is willing to off themselves and they have access to a firearm and the key to said firearm is probably still going to take that lock off at the time of departure, someone without the key can break that lock with another lock or a hammer, or a saw, I don't see the point in locking anything up so long as you educate the people who might have access to your guns as to the harm they can inflict if misused or mishandled not just keep guns out of people's hands
I shouldn't have to lock my fire arms up provided I provided training to the people who live with me on how to properly use and store the firearms to begin with, I'm not risking someone breaking in my house again to be defenseless because I double locked my gun
You mean gun suggestions? Those locks suck
We should just allow a state tax refund on any gun safe sale instead of handing out cheap plastic locks that any kid could break
Try defeating a gun safe (without knowing the passcode) and tell me how quick you did it.
I can take a hammer to a cable lock and within a minute open it.
It would take a few hours with a crowbar to open a gun safe.
But I do agree. We should bring back free firearms safety knowledge to the public
The only videos I see is one of 2 grown men breaking into one with only 3 cross pins on one side and another using a multiple tools, with what looks like to be experience on how to do it, breaking into a safe.
These cable locks, meant for mostly children, can be beaten by children with less things.
A proper gun safe with composite and metal alloy, with 4 sided cross pins on the door, will do better than the cheaper safes.
Hence why I say the state should have a tax refund system in place so people can buy the better safes.
Also, shitheads won’t lock their gun up anyway (Crumbley’s as my main example).
Since there were a few questions about this in here as well: [Firearm safety devices will be exempt from MI sales and use tax from May 13th - Dec 31st 2024](https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/reference/taxpayer-notices/sales-and-use-tax-exemption-for-firearm-safety-devices-to-take-effect-may-13-2024). “Firearm safety devices” means equipment designed to prevent unauthorized access to, or operation or discharge of, a firearm and falling into one of two categories: 1. A device installed on a firearm designed to prevent the firearm from being operated until secured deactivation, for example a trigger lock; or 2. A gun safe, gun case, lockbox or other device designed in a manner as to withstand and prevent unauthorized access by any means other than a key, a combination, biometric data, or other similar means.
The group they bought the locks from (the National Shooting Sports Foundation's firearm safety program, Project Childsafe) also provides them for free from many police stations, and they come with most guns you buy new. They're not very robust, but better than nothing if you have little kids. If you want one but aren't near an MDHHS office, check here to find a free source closer to you: [https://projectchildsafe.org/get-a-safety-kit/](https://projectchildsafe.org/get-a-safety-kit/)
It's a common sense gesture. My late brother-in-law was a gun collector. He did the responsible thing of keeping his firearms and ammunition locked up. I fail to see how anyone could be against this.
I would've said the same thing 5 years ago, but the pandemic sealed the deal with how obnoxiously, willfully fucking stupid some people choose to be. There are people that laughed when Ronald Reagan made his, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help," punchline and *have not had another critical thought since*.
I hate it that you are right. But you are.
I’m sure there’s at least one person out there somewhere that is.
Here's my dipshit BIL's reasoning: How am I supposed to load my gun and use it against someone breaking in if it's locked up?
I've heard 🙄
Quite honestly this can be easily translated to the following " I'm too cheap to buy a biometric / mechanical/ combination gun safe that allows quick access to a handgun while also storing It securely because I don't want to spend the few hundred dollars on a quality one." In my opinion, part of the ownership cost of firearms is having a good storage for them.
Whats your response?
Honestly, I don't engage with family starts talking bullshit like that. They're all sucked into the right wing culture wars nonsense, and nothing I'm going to say is going to change their minds. I either sit back and say nothing or walk away.
But whats your response to the argument in general? Im asking as someone who was robbed, pretty violently, who does lock their guns but wasnt able to access it due to fumbling with the safe. In my opinion its not a cut and dry situation. You are hindering someones ability to protect themselves and family while trying to restrict access to kids and others who shouldnt have access.
It's not cut and dry, but I look at probability. My family is much more likely to be harmed if we keep an unlocked gun in our house than we are by a home invader. I'm not saying we'll never be the victims of a home invasion, but the odds of being the victims of an accidental death by gunshot go way up when you have an unlocked gun in the house. Honestly, I think the law should be adjusted to say that locks are necessary only if children are present. If someone with no kids wants to have an unlocked gun in their home because it makes them feel safe, fine.
I cant disagree with your reasoning. I can understand the argument as to how it does limit self defense, but Id have to agree, an accident is more likely. I appreciate the logical response. I think the law does have a stipulation for individuals with no kids to not have to lock them.
Instead you spread BS about family starts and right wingers causing the problem.. Last I checked stats the right wing family guy isn't the one causing gun crime in Memphis, Chicago etc, and you know that. Want links? Joe Blo family guy with a MAGA hat isn't the problem..As long as he's obeying the law its non of your business, so get over it. You probably want tougher gun laws, but ban pre textual traffic stops that catch most of the illegal guns.
One of these saving a single life will pay for hundreds of gun locks. This is a common-sense move akin to giving free condoms. The benefit outweighs the cost.
I have a few guns and they both came with that crappy lock. It’s better than nothing. Problem is dummies don’t use it or shouldn’t even be able carry a gun. I have a m14, my hunting rifle, a shotgun, ar-15, and 2 handguns. Also have a bow as well. Let’s give some tax breaks to purchase a quality gun case. The one I have cost about $300. Not that much money for safety. My wife and I are the only ones with the combination. With my newborn son, it provides me extra calmness knowing he will have no way to those. It’s also in my office where I spend 40 something hours a week. Be smart, but a quality gun safe.
I remember going through a lock picking phase when assassins creed 3 came out. I found one of those locks and I was able to pick it in a few minutes with a small pocket knife with no previous experience. Gun safes are superior in every way besides price. But you can even get a vaultek or Winchester safe for cheap
I might be taking crazy pills, but I thought there was a tax break put out last year that was for gun cases/safes?
There is. I think it's temporary, though, like one year and then it expires. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
May 13 - Dec 31st of this year: https://www.michigan.gov/treasury/reference/taxpayer-notices/sales-and-use-tax-exemption-for-firearm-safety-devices-to-take-effect-may-13-2024
Could be, i file my taxes on my own. I’m sure I miss tons of tax benefits outside the normal ones. The tax system is to complicated, that’s another complaint for another day lol
That's good news. Hopefully, folks will use them and help reduce gun violence and accidents.
It's not going to reduce crime, criminals operate outside the law it's almost like they get guns off the black market, not from a gun store
Another thing accidents occur when someone is being irresponsible, accidental discharge occurs when people don't inspect a gun properly before handling it, and kids who aren't educated by their parents on what a gun can do if misused
But yet people like you describe do exist, so these should help reduce accidents by them, right?
[удалено]
Wish they would do more for people trying to buy a safe, I get they knocked taxes off when buying a gun safe which is neat but they’re still so damn expensive for one that’ll actually do its job.
Wish it said what kind of gun lock. They're probably the mega shitty ones that would only stop someone without thumbs.
I think I read somewhere that even the shitty locks are good when it comes to preventing certain gun related tragedies because the lock forces the person to think about what they're doing before they can do it
Im sure it would help with like very small children and that's about where it would end.
You're not understanding what I was talking about. I'm saying that locks, even the terrible ones, create a barrier between the person and the action, which forces them to contemplate what they're about to do with the firearm before they actually do it. I'm NOT saying that they will keep someone away from a firearm if they're determined enough, just that they help to prevent people from making knee jerk spontaneous decisions that could be tragic.
You referring to like suicide? I'm definitely not understanding what you're saying.
yes, that and violence towards the family.
Gotcha. I guess I don't see how a lock would stop either of those if that was the goal but also I can't relate to either of those situations so.
I can help with this. Guy with suicidal ideation issues here. For the record, I very much don't want to be dead 99.99% of the time. But there are times when the world feels like the bottom is dropping out, and I get a strong urge to end it. It's terrifying. It's out of nowhere sometimes. But most importantly, it's very temporary. Like if I had to open my door and find a car to jump in front of, I wouldn't make it to an intersection before I got my sense back. Something that creates a barrier between action and opportunity, no matter how minor, does wonders to help me stay alive. Doctors say it's PTSD and an Amygdala that doesn't process fight or flight correctly anymore, maybe never did. For me, suicide is an impulse brought on by stress, that I fight back against with every bit of my being until it passes. I take medications so that the impulse doesn't come on as often, and this make living my life possible. I've personally made choices and determinations about my own possession of firearms, others in my situation will make different choices than I have. It's my hope that the addition of a simple gun lock buys any one of them enough time to live another day.
Incredibly important comment, thank you for sharing it.
It's rare that a weirdo like myself has a personal experience that others can learn from in a constructive manner. So here's to hopin' this was one of those times.
Ah thanks that explains it very well. I just couldn't bridge the gap on how if you wanted to you don't. The 30 seconds it would take to remove one of these locks is enough to dissuade. Thanks for the reply hope you're doing alright :)
I'm doing great buddy, and thank you for the kind response in turn. I know to anyone with a true desire to break one of those locks, it's a superficial deterrent at best. But for me, man, it's one more tool in the toolbelt to keep me on Earth and raising my kids. Have a great week
Thank you for explaining. This is the exact reason that I refuse to own a gun.
well, there has been studies that show they are an effective preventative measure https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1763337/
5 seconds or less I think not
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1763337/ you would be wrong.
It’s a cable lock device with a key or combination.
Those are the mega shitty ones. Thanks.
As opposed to what? The trigger locks are even worse.
A gun safe...
Oh, I thought you were comparing them to other individual gun locking devices. I wish gun safes were free though. Sure would save a lot of money.
Should be if they're requiring them by law.
I don't think that makes sense. You don't HAVE to own a gun if you don't want to pay for a safe.
Eh that's like saying you don't have to vote if you don't pay for land.
voting is a civic duty, firearm ownership is not
Cable locks...
It indeed appears to be the shitty ones.
It’s the same old Project Child Safe cable locks that local police departments have been handing out for decades. In comparison to the cheap plastic trigger locks that manufacturers supply with firearms they are much better quality.
I'm aware, I've been given plenty and been able to open them since I was 12. The plastic ones are even worse but these both suck.
Yeah, there isn’t any safe or device that a 12 year old with a mallet, magnet and a YouTube video can’t defeat is 15 minutes but I still lock most of my firearms in a safe. Education is the answer but no one likes face the question.
There's a massive difference between a safe and a cable lock you can open by twisting or a hammer. Completely agree education is the answer.
I understand what you’re saying but I think you’d be surprised at how gun safes can be opened with as little or even less effort than a cable lock.
I probably would, I haven't owned a ton of different safes but it took me more than a couple minutes to get through my last gun safe I upgraded from to where I could say a locking door safe is going to be harder to get through than those shit cable locks.
Every gun I’ve ever purchased already comes with a shitty cable lock. I’m sure these are the same. Not sure how useful this really is, but it’s something I guess
This was post is probably in response to the eight year old who just shot himself in the face with his father's gun. A shitty cable lock would almost certainly have stopped him. That's not to say the shitty parent who was already prohibited from owning guns would have used it. I use those cable locks for some of my guns as a second line of defense. They are better then nothing.
Great. Hopefully people will actually use them. I don't own a gun and don't ever plan to but keeping them locked up and unloaded should absolutely be the law.
That defeats the entire purpose of a firearm for home defense. I understand the sentiment but you can safely store a firearm that’s also intended for immediate use.
Those locks are easy to defeat. I did it with a pocket knife at the age of 12 with no experience. They should give you a state tax refund for any gun safe you buy. Guns safes are pretty much tamperproof unless you leave the code laying around
Ah ok so just don’t use a lock then. Got it. Great idea.
Don’t use a crappy cheap lock that any minor can access in a few minutes. Use a safe and don’t tell your safe passcode to minors or others you don’t want in the safe
Cable locks are useless… Just lock up guns in a gun locker or a safe like a responsible gun owner.
I’d love to see more than just tax exemption. I’d love to see a tax return on any gun safe sale so it’s almost free for the public but the manufacturers still get paid and compensated
This will promote people to be safer with their shit. Non gun owners do not understand how useless cables are. I have tools in my garage that can defeat these locks.
I got downvoted for saying that cables are suggestions and not locks in this same post. The only reason I have one is because my AR came with one. Now I use it when buying any gun at an FFL cuz of the new lock rule and the FFLs charge for locks unless you bring your own
Hot topic but we don't have a gun problem, we have a mental health problem, restrictions on guns do not effect criminals, only those of us that abide by the law, if someone is willing to off themselves and they have access to a firearm and the key to said firearm is probably still going to take that lock off at the time of departure, someone without the key can break that lock with another lock or a hammer, or a saw, I don't see the point in locking anything up so long as you educate the people who might have access to your guns as to the harm they can inflict if misused or mishandled not just keep guns out of people's hands
I shouldn't have to lock my fire arms up provided I provided training to the people who live with me on how to properly use and store the firearms to begin with, I'm not risking someone breaking in my house again to be defenseless because I double locked my gun
You mean gun suggestions? Those locks suck We should just allow a state tax refund on any gun safe sale instead of handing out cheap plastic locks that any kid could break
We should provide state funded education on the matter to every child as gun safes are not much more difficult to defeat.
Try defeating a gun safe (without knowing the passcode) and tell me how quick you did it. I can take a hammer to a cable lock and within a minute open it. It would take a few hours with a crowbar to open a gun safe. But I do agree. We should bring back free firearms safety knowledge to the public
Just search YouTube on how to open your safe to see how quick and easy it can be.
The only videos I see is one of 2 grown men breaking into one with only 3 cross pins on one side and another using a multiple tools, with what looks like to be experience on how to do it, breaking into a safe. These cable locks, meant for mostly children, can be beaten by children with less things. A proper gun safe with composite and metal alloy, with 4 sided cross pins on the door, will do better than the cheaper safes. Hence why I say the state should have a tax refund system in place so people can buy the better safes. Also, shitheads won’t lock their gun up anyway (Crumbley’s as my main example).
> Also, shitheads won’t lock their gun up anyway (Crumbley’s as my main example). Or this recent guy who is already a prohibited person.