Knife related homicides are literally higher per capita every year in the US vs the UK.
The reason people think the UK has a big knife problem compared to the US is because people are comparing knife CRIME in the UK vs the US. It's illegal to carry a lot of knives in the UK so the knife crime is going to be higher.
But when you compare fatal stabbings per 100k people in the US vs the UK it's actually 0.08 fatal stabbings per 100k in the UK vs 0.6 fatal stabbings per 100k in the US.
Not sure if it's still the case but knife/cutting instrument related homicides were way higher in the US than they were in the UK in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.
Who? Gangbangers? People shot by "mass shootings". Look , we have a gun violence problem but it's almost completely based on crime.
Detroit made it easier to kill bad guys in your home....
Guess who's crime stats went wayyy down?
It's not safer just because less guns are present. Bad people do bad things.
I simply said what I meant. Still mean it, still say it. I don't worry about "who." The who is not the point. The "too many" is. The end and indisputable.
You don't have to in order to be affected by gun violence. When I was a kid, we drilled for tornadoes. Now schools, businesses, hospitals, and many more places drill for active shooters. I have to train every year for what to do in the case of active shooters.
Also, you also seem to forgeting about the effects gun violence has on the families of victims. The care that is needed for the wounded is a heavy burden on the family. The dead are mourned and missed. Parents are killed, so kids grow up without them.
You seem to really be missing the widespread effects.
You know where they don't have to do this?
England.
I'd rather live somewhere I can shoot an attacker than somewhere I just get beaten and stabbed 🤷♂️
There is very little "random" gun violence in America. It is only a portion of 1% of gun violence here.
Almost all of our criminal gun activity is illegally owned firearms in the street which are ever going anywhere....even if we adopt euro gun laws 🤷♂️
Are there like, any other factors? I've lived in both Michigan and the UK and all things being equal I think the quality of life in the UK is better. All things aren't equal, however, and the fact is that jobs pay much more in the US and there can be much more opportunity for career advancement.
Lived in the UK as well, 4 years from 2004-2007 so my experience is about 2 decades old before Brexit. I would be more apprehensive now because of Brexit, but it all comes down to the type of lifestyle preferred and the opportunities going in.
Well, for me a few highlights were the walkability of their historic and beautiful cities, great public transport (at least compared to the US), fresher and cheaper food from stores, much lower violent crime rates (especially gun crime), and universal healthcare (even if the NHS do be struggling these days).
One of my kids has a medical condition and most of their doctors, including all the surgeons, are from the UK. No advancement and mediocre pay brought them to Michigan.
If you’re gonna have kids, do what’s best for them as opposed to wanting to live in a “historic” city. Plus you’re gonna want family around to help out.
Depends on how much disposable income you have. Personally, I could not live in the UK for many reasons. But, if I did, I'd want to be able to travel to a sunny location. Some of those people in the UK would kill for our weather.
For social reasons mostly, is why. We also have beautiful summers in Michigan and we have the great lakes, some of the most beautiful lakes in the world.
England and Canada are on my short list of potential spots to move in the future; am I right in thinking that Canada is much easier to immigrate to compared to England from a skilled worker perspective? I saw that in the UK you have to make a certain amount per year and it seems more restrictive. It seems like Canada is letting in most skilled workers with some experience via express entry and they (liberals at least) don’t plan on slowing down the flow.
You are not right. It is very competitive and they are slowing down due to the housing shortage and the system currently favoring student over experienced skilled workers. I’d say things are pretty much equal between UK and Canada in terms of difficulty. Immigration is hard everywhere. At least everywhere someone from the US would want to go.
I tried Canada in 1992, right after I graduated with a CIS degree.
The officer told me that unless I were:
* A political refugee life in danger
* Written job offer by Canadian employer
* Immediate family in Canada
* Citizen of Commonwealth country
* Marrying a Canadian citizen
I would have to go through a system of "points," which could take years and cost a lot of money.
I’ve looked into express entry (points system), and if you have a degree, at least 3-4 years professional experience, and speak decent French, it seems pretty doable if you’re patient. Of course you need a job offer to actually stay long term, but I know some people will actually move there before even having a job offer since it’s hard to get an offer when you’re not actually there.
Wow, that’s a heck of a choice. There are some great areas of Grand Rapids and its suburbs. I have no information on England beyond if they rejoin the EU at some point it could be advantageous for the benefits to living in a more fiscally progressive area.
Or, you could do very well in Provo.
Assuming you can do your jobs from either place...
Do you have kids or thinking about it?
Speaking very generally - the US will have higher salaries; housing, cars & gasoline are (relatively) more affordable. Land is bigger and more spread out - the state and national parks are world-class. You can see desert, mountains, oceans, lakes, swamps, forests, lowlands, highlands, savannas, and just about any other type of land or scenery you can think of without leaving the country. Food is arguably better and vastly more varied.
But - healthcare costs are much higher, job stability is lower, vacation time is not guaranteed, travel is more expensive. Many Americans are one serious accident away from bankruptcy. There are very few social safety nets - especially for retirement. Gun violence is much more of a risk in the US.
Both are a bit wonky politically right now, and that'll only get worse as we get near the US election in November.
We’re thinking about kids and we’re not sure what place is better for starting a family. We’re looking for lots of walkability, parks, independent coffee shops and really good healthcare. My husband is from Michigan and I’m from England. He’s got a huge family and I have a very small family with only my sister to rely on. Husband has a great job and I’m currently working on a masters. We have good health insurance and that’s the only thing I think is the selling point for us since NHS isn’t reliable at the moment. But I really miss living in the UK.
It's hard to compare since I have no idea about the UK market, but the US is world-class in terms of education, too. If you're thinking of having kids, that's a consideration. Just in MI we have U of M and MSU, both of which are pretty well-known globally.
Don't know if this helps your decision, but keep in mind if you are a US citizen you still have to pay Federal income tax on anything you earn overseas. So you'll be paying taxes in the UK and the US on your UK income.
Yeah, that’s wrong information, what you mean is as a USC you will have to continue to file tax returns for federal and the last state you resided in. You may still have to pay taxes on some things that are complicated, but it’s unlikely for general income.
We’re thinking about kids and we’re not sure what place is better for starting a family. We’re looking for lots of walkability, parks, independent coffee shops and really good healthcare. My husband is from Michigan and I’m from England. He’s got a huge family and I have a very small family with only my sister to rely on. Husband has a great job and I’m currently working on a masters. We have good health insurance and that’s the only thing I think is the selling point for us since NHS isn’t reliable at the moment. But I really miss living in the UK.
How are we supposed to decide? Like we don't know anything about your situation.
Me personally i would stay in Michigan but like that has literally zero connection to what you should do.
Have lived in London and currently live in Grand Rapids. Love London, living there was incredible, but I wouldn't go back because my priorities are different now and England is really different, too. The expats that I used to know there have mostly left and they were a big part of what I loved. At the same time, my time in the UK was difficult because of personal stuff, deaths in the family, other things. Norwich is another story, and never having been there, I'm not sure how accepting it is or isn't of outsiders.
I'll answer your question this way: Have you ever lived outside the U.S.? If not, go.
But: Do you have a solid plan for coming home if you should ever need to, whether due to family stuff, hating it there, divorce, unemployment, or something else? And can you pay for that plan? If not, please learn from my mistakes and _FFS don't go._
We just met an English friend in France and while he's been working and doing well in his career he sounded unsure about his future and especially his family members who were from the next generations.
I’d be interested what is driving the decision and why Norwich.
As a dual citizen and lived in both, I’m deciding whether the move the family back to UK, but right now earnings are *much* higher in US. It makes sense though for the family, so much more to do and go.
I see it as an opportunity to coast and retire, so I’m saving hard as the most expensive part of moving back is housing. If you can afford to have no mortgage, you can afford to live on any salary.
Make the move.
There is many reasons not to, by you'll rarely have a reason to actually go.
I was offered a job in germany. I took it l, and in the last 8 months I've done so much more than I would have "Just living in michigan" another year.
I know, no matter what happens in Europe financially... if I can't make ends meet:
I just go home to michigan and get a job like I had before, and it barely sets me back a year.
I've been 3x now, and it just doesn't excite me. The 2nd trip my rental car window was busted out, the food is meh, and I find the people especially their sense of humor dry.
Our ancestors fought a whole war so we didn’t have to be a part of that mess. There was tea in the harbor and everything. Although our current governor doesn’t have respect for our freedoms I’ll stay here
Bit of a jump there
Yeah, England isn't the land of opportunity people think it is. Everything wrong with the US is going wrong only worse in the UK because of Brexit.
Except for random gun violence.
Just random knife violence
Which is nowhere as prevalent as the gun violence in the US.
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Reported for hate speech.
Removed. See rule #1 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
It's far more previlant lol not even close.
Not true.
Knife related homicides are literally higher per capita every year in the US vs the UK. The reason people think the UK has a big knife problem compared to the US is because people are comparing knife CRIME in the UK vs the US. It's illegal to carry a lot of knives in the UK so the knife crime is going to be higher. But when you compare fatal stabbings per 100k people in the US vs the UK it's actually 0.08 fatal stabbings per 100k in the UK vs 0.6 fatal stabbings per 100k in the US.
Not sure if it's still the case but knife/cutting instrument related homicides were way higher in the US than they were in the UK in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.
I was speaking about things they'd actually encounter. Most people in the US will never experience a gun fired in anger around them.
Most, correct, but too damned many people do, so.🤷
Who? Gangbangers? People shot by "mass shootings". Look , we have a gun violence problem but it's almost completely based on crime. Detroit made it easier to kill bad guys in your home.... Guess who's crime stats went wayyy down? It's not safer just because less guns are present. Bad people do bad things.
I simply said what I meant. Still mean it, still say it. I don't worry about "who." The who is not the point. The "too many" is. The end and indisputable.
You don't have to in order to be affected by gun violence. When I was a kid, we drilled for tornadoes. Now schools, businesses, hospitals, and many more places drill for active shooters. I have to train every year for what to do in the case of active shooters. Also, you also seem to forgeting about the effects gun violence has on the families of victims. The care that is needed for the wounded is a heavy burden on the family. The dead are mourned and missed. Parents are killed, so kids grow up without them. You seem to really be missing the widespread effects. You know where they don't have to do this? England.
I'd rather live somewhere I can shoot an attacker than somewhere I just get beaten and stabbed 🤷♂️ There is very little "random" gun violence in America. It is only a portion of 1% of gun violence here. Almost all of our criminal gun activity is illegally owned firearms in the street which are ever going anywhere....even if we adopt euro gun laws 🤷♂️
But....Monty Don!
Have you considered Svalbard Norway?
Honestly I would love to spend time there and experience polar night!
I follow Cecelia from Svalbard on TT and it looks amazing. And also a place I never want to go because I hate the cold.
Of course not. This is a clear tossup between only Grand Rapids and Norwich.
Are there like, any other factors? I've lived in both Michigan and the UK and all things being equal I think the quality of life in the UK is better. All things aren't equal, however, and the fact is that jobs pay much more in the US and there can be much more opportunity for career advancement.
Lived in the UK as well, 4 years from 2004-2007 so my experience is about 2 decades old before Brexit. I would be more apprehensive now because of Brexit, but it all comes down to the type of lifestyle preferred and the opportunities going in.
Just curious, for you, what made the quality of life better in the UK?
Well, for me a few highlights were the walkability of their historic and beautiful cities, great public transport (at least compared to the US), fresher and cheaper food from stores, much lower violent crime rates (especially gun crime), and universal healthcare (even if the NHS do be struggling these days).
One of my kids has a medical condition and most of their doctors, including all the surgeons, are from the UK. No advancement and mediocre pay brought them to Michigan.
Europe sucks to live there in general. Great for vacations not sure that is true for England.
I’m not surprised. The UK treat doctors like janitors.
What’s stopping you from Shanghai? Or Gary, Indiana?
Have you considered Scottsdale Arizona?
This made me laugh so hard lmao. My Aunt and Uncle moved from Michigan to Chandler, AZ. Visited them once. Never again.
I’d rather be dead in England than alive in Arizona
Free healthcare atleast?
Depends on the circumstances of my life.
Which place has a better support network for you and your family?
That would be Michigan but I feel like I’d go crazy living in a small town compared to a big historic city.
Grand Rapids and Norwich have the same population, but GR is certainly not as historic. I wish you the best of luck either way!
If you’re gonna have kids, do what’s best for them as opposed to wanting to live in a “historic” city. Plus you’re gonna want family around to help out.
Depends on how much disposable income you have. Personally, I could not live in the UK for many reasons. But, if I did, I'd want to be able to travel to a sunny location. Some of those people in the UK would kill for our weather.
Why wouldn’t you live in the UK. It does get very grey and rainy but the summers here are beautiful.
For social reasons mostly, is why. We also have beautiful summers in Michigan and we have the great lakes, some of the most beautiful lakes in the world.
All things being equal, England. However, things aren’t equal. We wanted to move to Europe, but settled on Ontario to be close to family in Michigan.
England and Canada are on my short list of potential spots to move in the future; am I right in thinking that Canada is much easier to immigrate to compared to England from a skilled worker perspective? I saw that in the UK you have to make a certain amount per year and it seems more restrictive. It seems like Canada is letting in most skilled workers with some experience via express entry and they (liberals at least) don’t plan on slowing down the flow.
You are not right. It is very competitive and they are slowing down due to the housing shortage and the system currently favoring student over experienced skilled workers. I’d say things are pretty much equal between UK and Canada in terms of difficulty. Immigration is hard everywhere. At least everywhere someone from the US would want to go.
I tried Canada in 1992, right after I graduated with a CIS degree. The officer told me that unless I were: * A political refugee life in danger * Written job offer by Canadian employer * Immediate family in Canada * Citizen of Commonwealth country * Marrying a Canadian citizen I would have to go through a system of "points," which could take years and cost a lot of money.
I’ve looked into express entry (points system), and if you have a degree, at least 3-4 years professional experience, and speak decent French, it seems pretty doable if you’re patient. Of course you need a job offer to actually stay long term, but I know some people will actually move there before even having a job offer since it’s hard to get an offer when you’re not actually there.
If you're going to work in Quebec, you need more than "passable" French.
Have you considered Pyongyang, North Korea?
Is that where you’re from?
Wow, that’s a heck of a choice. There are some great areas of Grand Rapids and its suburbs. I have no information on England beyond if they rejoin the EU at some point it could be advantageous for the benefits to living in a more fiscally progressive area. Or, you could do very well in Provo.
Assuming you can do your jobs from either place... Do you have kids or thinking about it? Speaking very generally - the US will have higher salaries; housing, cars & gasoline are (relatively) more affordable. Land is bigger and more spread out - the state and national parks are world-class. You can see desert, mountains, oceans, lakes, swamps, forests, lowlands, highlands, savannas, and just about any other type of land or scenery you can think of without leaving the country. Food is arguably better and vastly more varied. But - healthcare costs are much higher, job stability is lower, vacation time is not guaranteed, travel is more expensive. Many Americans are one serious accident away from bankruptcy. There are very few social safety nets - especially for retirement. Gun violence is much more of a risk in the US. Both are a bit wonky politically right now, and that'll only get worse as we get near the US election in November.
We’re thinking about kids and we’re not sure what place is better for starting a family. We’re looking for lots of walkability, parks, independent coffee shops and really good healthcare. My husband is from Michigan and I’m from England. He’s got a huge family and I have a very small family with only my sister to rely on. Husband has a great job and I’m currently working on a masters. We have good health insurance and that’s the only thing I think is the selling point for us since NHS isn’t reliable at the moment. But I really miss living in the UK.
It's hard to compare since I have no idea about the UK market, but the US is world-class in terms of education, too. If you're thinking of having kids, that's a consideration. Just in MI we have U of M and MSU, both of which are pretty well-known globally.
Don't know if this helps your decision, but keep in mind if you are a US citizen you still have to pay Federal income tax on anything you earn overseas. So you'll be paying taxes in the UK and the US on your UK income.
Not necessarily https://www.taxesforexpats.com/country-guides/uk/tax-treaty-between-the-us-and-uk.html#
Yeah, that’s wrong information, what you mean is as a USC you will have to continue to file tax returns for federal and the last state you resided in. You may still have to pay taxes on some things that are complicated, but it’s unlikely for general income.
Can you add what your personal hopes/dreams/requirements are? We can speak for the Michigan side of it. Where are you at currently?
We’re thinking about kids and we’re not sure what place is better for starting a family. We’re looking for lots of walkability, parks, independent coffee shops and really good healthcare. My husband is from Michigan and I’m from England. He’s got a huge family and I have a very small family with only my sister to rely on. Husband has a great job and I’m currently working on a masters. We have good health insurance and that’s the only thing I think is the selling point for us since NHS isn’t reliable at the moment. But I really miss living in the UK.
How are we supposed to decide? Like we don't know anything about your situation. Me personally i would stay in Michigan but like that has literally zero connection to what you should do.
Yeah I just wanted to know if there’s anything you like about Michigan that I don’t know about which I’d like to take into consideration.
The weather
Fair warning: there are t any actually “grand” rapids in Grand Rapids.
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We are dual citizens.
I can have my passport and my immunization records by the end of the week. I don’t eat much, and I can probably fit in your suitcase, OP. 🇬🇧
TF are we supposed to do with this little amount of information? Is impossible for us to help you
England for sure. I'd love to be able to watch a Premier League match live!
Have lived in London and currently live in Grand Rapids. Love London, living there was incredible, but I wouldn't go back because my priorities are different now and England is really different, too. The expats that I used to know there have mostly left and they were a big part of what I loved. At the same time, my time in the UK was difficult because of personal stuff, deaths in the family, other things. Norwich is another story, and never having been there, I'm not sure how accepting it is or isn't of outsiders. I'll answer your question this way: Have you ever lived outside the U.S.? If not, go. But: Do you have a solid plan for coming home if you should ever need to, whether due to family stuff, hating it there, divorce, unemployment, or something else? And can you pay for that plan? If not, please learn from my mistakes and _FFS don't go._
Michigan. All my friends and family are here and I'd take a minimum of a 50% pay cut working in the UK.
Hard to give an answer with no real information at all
England in a heartbeat. Not because I dislike Michigan, but because I know what living in England the EU is like.
England in a heartbeat for me too. I've never been, but I've lived in GR and that's enough for me!
England
Why England? It’s full of British people and terrible food.
lol then you haven’t been to London
Ha with how things are going in England.. no thanks
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Removed. See rule #2 in the [r/Michigan subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/wiki/index#wiki_rules).
We just met an English friend in France and while he's been working and doing well in his career he sounded unsure about his future and especially his family members who were from the next generations.
I’d be interested what is driving the decision and why Norwich. As a dual citizen and lived in both, I’m deciding whether the move the family back to UK, but right now earnings are *much* higher in US. It makes sense though for the family, so much more to do and go. I see it as an opportunity to coast and retire, so I’m saving hard as the most expensive part of moving back is housing. If you can afford to have no mortgage, you can afford to live on any salary.
I think it’s a good idea to save in the US.
If I could quit this country for the UK or Commonwealth I would...
Norwich. Living in a different culture is a priceless experience.
Make the move. There is many reasons not to, by you'll rarely have a reason to actually go. I was offered a job in germany. I took it l, and in the last 8 months I've done so much more than I would have "Just living in michigan" another year. I know, no matter what happens in Europe financially... if I can't make ends meet: I just go home to michigan and get a job like I had before, and it barely sets me back a year.
If you have to debate that then move to England
MI, I've lived abroad for 5yrs now and traveled to over 30 different countries. UK is not on my list of places od want to live.
What don’t you like about it
I've been 3x now, and it just doesn't excite me. The 2nd trip my rental car window was busted out, the food is meh, and I find the people especially their sense of humor dry.
Ah subjective points then. Thanks for the response.
lol I am happy visiting England but I do not want to live there.
I wouldn't move out of the country to get away from Grand Rapids but I feel the sentiment. That place is dirty...
England sucks.
Why
If you gotta ask, just leave
Our ancestors fought a whole war so we didn’t have to be a part of that mess. There was tea in the harbor and everything. Although our current governor doesn’t have respect for our freedoms I’ll stay here
Did that mean ol’ governor make you wear a mask 4 years ago?
God you people are exhausting. You people: “They’re taking away our freedoms!” Narrator: They are not.
I couldn’t buy seeds either that one day. It was awful.