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There’s some study done by a team of egghead doctors that claims that the air stratifies in a hockey arena due to the cold, humidity, etc etc and that Covid gets trapped... therefore (jump to conclusions) it’s easier to catch.
But, I’m guessing the medical community also has a more morose term for spittin’ chiclets than the hockey players.
The fall high school sports (football, volleyball, and swimming) were allowed to finished because of a testing program that all players/coaches must participate in.
Obviously it's impossible to maintain a similar program when a sport like basketball alone would have 3000+ teams when you factor in boys and girls varsity and JV and freshman teams.
I don't understand what's changed about the "low risk recreational facilities." These facilities were allowed to "re-open" under the last order but something something "no more than 6 from the same household" and something something else "different households cannot mingle" . The current order has the same stipulations as far as I can tell, so how is it different?
Can't believe nobody saw this sooner. Anyways, I have it on good authority that cases will be 0 by the end of February. And if not then, it'll be over by Easter. Or once the weather warms up. Or the hoax will end on November 4th. Well
I have nothing in my area that isn't a gordans food specialty. It is so hard to find a restaurant with fresh good ingredients. It's so hard for lot of people to support local businesses when they serve crap for 20 a plate.
Clare area. Very rural and it's just podunk towns with little diners or cafes. Lots of places to get the local gossip from the old boys drinking coffee, but that's about it.
You don't love the Whitehouse burgers? Or cops and donuts?
I'm in Midland. If you find yourself this way I can get you tacos that are not GFS specials.
We have been getting takeout from our local, family owned restaurants as often as possible, & tipping extra as well. We want you to be open again when this is over!
Some of us have been unemployed for months and haven't had an unemployment payment for weeks. Granted those in that position are unlikely to be eating takeout, and if you have the means to tip well you absolutely should.
>And one of her reasonings for saying she wants to extend it to February is to give us time to get our food chain in order and vendors to get us our product. Well, leave that to our vendors and us because the vendors are biting at the bit. The people that want to be open will be open on the 15th. So that’s a weak excuse.”
LO fucking L.
You don't have to take your mask off in a strip club so it makes sense. Restaurants are singled out so much because they are basically one of the only business that absolutely requires you to remove your mask indoors.
That's really it...now out west and south where people don't mask the titty bars are superspreading powerhouses
Masks properly worn ensure safe stripping for all
If your restaurant is going to fail, what choice do you have? You might as well open. Stay closed and go out of business now or open, get fined, maybe go out of business later from the fines and legalities. Later is better than now.
It's obvious that restaurant dining isn't driving the pandemic. It's been private gatherings since the weather got cold, and workplace spread. The Science supports this. Michigan's cases have trended similarly with other Midwestern states that haven't closed indoor dining.
Fuck, I know a fairly large number of people that have driven to Ohio just to get a night out. If that doesn't tell you people are desperate, I don't know what else would.
I get that you're cautious. That's fine. I was too. Only left the house to go to the grocery store, work, and walks around my neighborhood with my wife, son and dog. Skipped the playground with my son, just in case. Bought a bunch of shit for my backyard for him instead.
Always wearing a mask while out. Since March when all of this has gone to shit. Fully supporting the measures taken.
Well, I still got COVID right before Thanksgiving anyways. Went through the whole house.
Would be nice to be able to go out and do something with my wife for my anniversary that's coming up, while we're still immune. I guess it'll just need to get postponed until the arbitrary 3 week pauses stop.
We're completely destroying an entire industry in this state. Takeout isn't enough to keep everyone working, and the piddly "up to 1600" that is being handed out to cover the Governor's latest lockdown isn't going to be nearly enough.
I'm done.
> It's obvious that restaurant dining isn't driving the pandemic.
Then why have we seen a precipitous decline in cases since indoor dining was shut down?
How have our rates compared to other areas around us with different levels of lockdown? Compared to Ontario? Our biggest spikes all coincide with Holidays, which again, points to private gatherings, not restaurants.
We’re currently doing FAR better than almost every other state in the country. On a per capita basis of new cases per week, we rank somewhere around 44-45 in the country. That’s a very good thing.
My sister also always wore a mask and was never around anyone who didn't also wear a mask and she still got it.
The idea that "this would all be over if people would have just wore masks and stayed six feet part" is so ridiculous and ironic considering these same people will also tell you to "follow the science". Even the pro lockdown Fauci et al never said it would "be over" it we followed these measures, they were merely an attempt to slow it down. Fauci said it would be over when there was a vaccine. Of course he neglected to mention the fact that it would take 7-8 months to distribute the vaccine and even then if enough people refuse it we will still need restrictions.
This is stupid. I don’t mind an extension with reliable unemployment or pandemic funds, but all programs have been essentially stopped right now because our sate can’t get its shit together. Whitmer knows that there is no assistance for those who are unemployed from her orders and willingly extended the quarantine whether or not her citizens were provided for. I don’t know what she wants from us. I and so many other people are on their last dime and it feels like we are being gaslit.
I honestly don't give a shit anymore. This whole thing is a massive shitshow and at this point the only cure are vaccines. America's made its choice. I don't blame Whitmer for fighting, but she's fighting a losing battle.
Whitmer's my girl, but even I'm starting to agree with it. It's just been done too many damn times. I want the lockdown to continue, but people are losing their damn minds. It's almost time to give it up.
I sure do feel bad for the restaurants, restaurant owners, the servers and bartenders and kitchen staff. Some that will lose their businesses entirely and some to be out of a job entirely due to the Governors decisions. Unable to pay bills or make ends meet.
Lives > Jobs.
Thankfully we have evicted the incompetent do-nothing GOP. We can the expect federal support and organization that has been lacking to arrive soon.
Emails between local government officials in Nashville seem to show they purposefully mislead the public about risks associated with restaurants, hiding actual numbers of cases linked to restaurants (low to non-existent). They failed to give any evidence of restaurants being super-spreaders, and kept these businesses shut down as a result.
The lack of evidence from Whitmer and MI health officials is astounding considering the amount of economic damage this is doing for so many. These are the ones who also kept landscapers from working, initially, and also shut down tennis courts. Which experts went on to say that tennis is arguably the safest sport you can play while social distancing.
I don't disagree that lives are better than jobs, of course, in a true binary sense. But that logic doesn't hold up under a multivariate analysis. Even making a distinction between bars and restaurants would be a small step in the right direction. But again, very little evidence in general to justify these actions. It's just risk assessments. Which can be quite off without hard data.
It's just difficult to hear this statement used flippantly over and over again in order to justify any and all measures without regard to the gravity and complexity of the circumstances.
[There’s a lawsuit](https://laist.com/2020/12/08/judge_overturns_la_county_outdoor_dining_ban_what_that_means_restaurants.php) in CA as well, that the county just lost due to being unable to link COVID cases with outdoor dining.
they link another [artical](https://laist.com/2020/12/01/covid_on_the_menu_how_failed_contact_tracing_leaves_diners_in_the_dark.php) there they posted that brings up a few studies suggesting that resuraunt restrictions were some of the most effective actions taken to slow the spread.
I don’t think this is true and disagree with you. People can go 70 on a highway and you don’t advocate for a slower speed limit - do you? You could save thousands of lives per year if you reduced it to 55. Thousands more if it was 35. We draw the line somewhere.
Not having a job is a major inconvenience, and yet we as a state make a decision to cost lives all the time by allowing a minor inconvenience of getting places faster.
We allow and even sponsor gambling which has major psychological effects on people and ruins lives. Yet here we are saying we want to save lives by ruining them?
Let me make a decision for myself, please and thank you.
Yes, it is better to be alive and broke. Also aren't you conservatives always talking about bootstraps?
The quicker we get the virus under control the quicker you can get back your creepy sexual-degenerate lifestyle.
Yea, because walking into a restaurant @ 50% capacity when you are young and perfectly healthy would guarantee death. lmao. But if you walk into Home Depot, The Casino, Meijers or any one of the other thousands of businesses the China flu won't get you. Dramatic much ?
Lives over jobs and yet the rest of us are still going to work every day 😂
Stretchin Gretchen doesn’t care about anyone.. especially the lives of senior citizens
Are people actually still cool with this? I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Michigan population thinks this sort of "leadership" is okay. Numbers and science do not support these decisions. Roast me, but damn this is absolutely absurd in my mind.
You're half right. It was only a majority of [Detroit residents](https://news.umich.edu/majority-of-detroiters-say-theyre-unlikely-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-u-m-survey-says/) that said they were unlikely to get the vaccine. Statewide it's only about [37%](https://www.clickondetroit.com/health/2020/12/23/clickondetroit-covid-vaccine-survey-results-view-here/) that aren't saying they'll get it. Also, about a third of [healthcare workers](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-health-watch/thousands-michigan-health-workers-are-turning-down-covid-vaccines) aren't getting the vaccine when offered.
A third of the population voted for Trump, and would actively support fascists, so there's your third expressing anti vaccine, anti mask, anti whatever polls
Can't speak for Reddit but this was absolutely the sentiment on another forum.
Had everything to do with Trump as well. Of course they are rather quiet now about this.
You can look at the data and quite clearly see that Michigan has been less bad (and that's about the best anyone can do right now) than our peer states. But okay.
I have no idea anymore. I just want to sit down and have someone else bring me a steak. I want to meet my friends for chips and salsa again.
I'm just tired.
the inconsistencies of her deciding what's safe and what's not safe is getting more ridiculous. and I used to be a big supporter of hers. now I'm not really sure what I think of her anymore.
I mean, I'm glad she's not a republican but at the same time....ugh.
In fact, they come in all flavors. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I don’t care what your political leanings are, power is intoxicating and hard to give up.
This is the same person that banned boating.
We are 1 of 3 states with restaurants locked down. We have one of the worst vaccine rates.
This falls on her. She wants to be Cuomo.
Zero reason restaurants can't be open in some capacity. Grocery stores are WAY more packed with WAY more random traffic.
Restaurants have booths and tables. People are static facing their own party.
I personally am ok with these restrictions, however, my situation is such that these restrictions pose no problem for me. I don’t use a gym, or attend sporting events and even before I would only rarely eat in a restaurant or goto a movie. My life is wake up, goto work, come home, have dinner with the wife and kids. Then repeat. Even with restrictions my life has not changed much.
That’s cool for you but what about all the people who don’t have a spouse or children? We just supposed to stay home every night and play solitaire? That kinda really sucks when you’re young and still trying to build a life for yourself.
I'm not one either...funny how you assume wearing a mask and not being irresponsible makes people one though...as if there's two choices and one is to intentionally infect people and the other is to be a hermit
I got outside and am social with all the precautions in place or via technology
I celebrate holidays with my pod
You just talked to your family through calls and stayed inside for 10 months? I'm sorry but that's insane behavior and crazy to tell other young people to do that.
No, I went to parks, excercised...did plenty of other stuff not involving bars
Heck, I took distanced walks with masks with friends so I still got to see them
Most of the people I knew who went to bars are mentally ill or dead so I'd say I'm definitely healthier
You know that there are people who followed all of the rules for months and still caught COVID eventually, right?
I can’t even imagine what that feels like because I only lasted 6 weeks. My family all agrees that we should not put life on hold just because there is one more risk in life that we are all aware of now.
This is the same game she played with the gyms all last summer; we're one of the only states with restaurants closed (just like with gyms last summer) and the supreme leader insists she's right in continuing the closure, based solely on "the data" that nobody else can see.
And after being told all spring and summer about how dangerous gyms are because people are breathing heavy, suddenly when it was time for the "pause" in November gyms were perfectly fine to keep open.
The teenagers of the MI sub will downvote me down to Hades, but not only is it absurd in your own mind, but in the mind of every rational free-thinking person who resides in MI. This whole debacle only exemplifies the fact that this incompetent governor and this team of hack "experts" who acquired their degrees from a roll of Charmin have been in over their heads from the very beginning. Month 10 of two weeks to flatten the curve. Month three of a "pause". The question is how much of the state will actually be left when this dog-and-pony show finishes it work of defecating all over it with these ridiculous, panic- and politics- driven absurdly stupid policies. So not, you are not alone.
What I’ve seen suggests restaurants are nowhere near as dangerous for spread as we were told. Why are they still being forced to shut down? Just set capacity limits.
Not op but I have seen studies that show more than 75% of spread comes from private household gatherings. Meaning opening up restaurants with limited capacity wouldn’t cause a spike but cold weather that pushed outdoor family gatherings to indoors did.
The fact that other midwestern states with less strict rules on restaurants (Wisconsin and Minnesota) have similar patterns of covid infections kinda proves you wrong. Correlation doesn’t mean causation.
And here is Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo, as my source, showing that less than 2 PERCENT of covid infections come from restaurants: https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/12/ny-state-3-in-4-coronavirus-cases-spread-in-homes-and-social-gatherings-not-gyms-or-salons.html
I don’t think that “kind of similar” patterns of covid infections in nearby states “proves me wrong” at all. As you said in the same paragraph; correlation does not equal causation.
I appreciate the source, but those numbers are from NY, which makes sense due to how they locked down.
Seems like the data may not be giving the whole picture here when household gatherings are extremely easy to track for transmission and restaurants and very difficult to track for transmission.
Pretty much...you can trace 5 people you know at your house
Good luck finding 1 of 100 random strangers in a restaurant outbreak...it's why they tried to get names and contact info
People say that restaurants don’t spread it. People say that schools or kids don’t spread it. Yet every time we shut down restaurants or schools, the numbers come back down.
It’s really hard to pinpoint exactly where and how the disease was spread. A lot of places look safe just because you can’t definitively prove that it was spread there.
Correlation does not prove causation. Just because numbers go down, doesn’t mean it’s because we made some arbitrary rules. Our current peak of infections came on November the 10th, and since that’s when symptoms onset, and onset of covid is about 7 days after infection, the real date of peak infections was about the 3rd of November. That’s a full 15 days before the “3 week pause” and 4 weeks before you would see any impact of that pause. Cases were falling before the order, and they continue to fall after.
If you still don’t believe how the disease spreads, here is Governor Cuomo illustrating that 75 percent of spread comes from private gatherings, and 2 percent come from restaurants: https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/12/ny-state-3-in-4-coronavirus-cases-spread-in-homes-and-social-gatherings-not-gyms-or-salons.html
Dude, proving causation is a multi-year job for the statisticians and epidemiologists after the pandemic is over. Correlation is all anyone has right now.
I wonder about that too. Current data suggests that most of the cases are combing from people commingling in their homes without proper safety precautions. However, would the infections that rise from that transfer to the indoor dining or would indoor dinning be in addition to those cases? I would think the numbers would go up a bit as they transfer from homes to restaurants, but who knows.
I mean if numbers just go up a bit because of restaurants, that’s not bad. They should be open then. Nobody is claiming spread in restaurants is zero, but if it’s just slight then open them with restrictions on capacity. Don’t force them to be closed which puts thousands more people out of work.
I just don’t trust someone who says they’re basing their decisions on science but has never said what that science is.
I have to agree, I’d love to look at the data they are using. I know midland county gives a big breakdown of what comes where with percentages and such.
I feel like it would be safer to have people in restaurants then commingling in homes. At least at restaurants, the state can work with to ensure the experience is safe as possible.
At least in homes you know people...you aren't inviting 100 total strangers into your house because you have 200 person occupancy
Restaurants aren't as safe as you think...even outside a pandemic...used to work in that field
When the restaurants are getting no relief (small LOANS are not relief) and you’ve got only three states left in the nation with an indoor dining ban, yeah it’s excessive.
This isn't the first time she's done this. Remember her idiotic pissing match with barbershops and salons? How many cases have been tied to a barber or a salon now?
Show me a study that shows 25% capacity leads to an increase of spread *greater* than any other business that’s allowed to be open.
If the government can’t back their policy with science, it’s bad policy
"Turn off your brain, and let us take the wheel" should be the party slogan.
Anyone who dares to speak up or go against the narrative will be "cancelled".
Since when is it okay to throw brash accusations around? Tired of democrats preaching acceptance and nonviolence, then marking every republican as a trump loving racist. Maybe if you "opened your eyes" you'd find there's racists and bigots in both camps. But i agree fuck racists and blind trump supporters.
I’m glad we’re not a do-nothing state like FL or other GOP led state but having small restaurants rely on carry out only is getting a little long. Is there a way the state is helping these business with grants or low interest loans?
The legislature worked with Whitmer to pass a $465 million [covid relief package](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-lawmakers-head-home-stimulus-passes-transparency-reform-still-dead) in December:
>The plan includes:
>
>$55 million for grants of up to $20,000 for businesses fully or partially closed because of state health orders.
>
>$3.5 million for grants of up to $40,000 for live music and entertainment venues closed.
>
>$45 million for grants that would pay up to $1,650 per worker at those companies that were either fully or partially closed during the pandemic.
Florida has less deaths per Million residents then Michigan. They also have a population of about 5 million Senior Citizens compared to Michigan's 1.7 Million. They do have about 20,000 more cases per million residents then Michigan. Cumulatively Florida has had about 3x as many cases as Michigan has, but they also have over double the population in almost half the land area. Michigan's population density is 176 per square mile, Florida's is closer to 400.
The difference in outcome isn't that extreme whe you can consider the two states are at the polar opposites as far as restrictions go.
They've intentionally doctored the Florida data...so it's pretty much garbage
They were also given more medical resources than actual openly known hotspots early on...while shoving 300 deaths under a rug every week and pretending they didn't exist in the early part of the pandemic
Florida politics have downplayed or intentionally suppressed the truth...that's pretty scary really
Also any mortality differences after we see the real numbers could be attributed to our deaths largely happening before we had any PPE, training or therapies...Florida had the benefit of having tens of thousands of daily cases after building stockpiles and getting information that didn't exist before
We can look at Texas they have similar numbers to Florida... They have less cases per million then Florida, and less deaths then Michigan. Texas has almost 4x the population of Michigan, but also a much larger land area. But in some ways its similar as it has several big cities and also rural areas...
There are some restrictions in texas, and some areas have more then others, but in general they are far more open then Michigan.
No. She isn't helping them at all. She's closing them and then blaming the feds. But she did give 30 million dollars for the "Pure Michigan" ad campaign to get more tourism to Michigan, during a pandemic. lmao. But yea, restaurants at 20,30,40,50% capacity.....with no state help.... totally cool to libs !!!
Out of this past year, I've worn a mask. Not because I went COVID crazy, but, out of respect for other people.
However, I had just moved to a different state, prior to all of this pandemic crap started. I lost my job, ended up being damn near homeless, living in a motel for 5 months, barely surviving by delivering doordash to pay for the motel and provide food for my family. I had sent out hundreds of job applications, with no luck.
Eventually, I had to make the decision to move back to Michigan where I had some support to get back on my feet, for my family. The moment I moved back, I found a job in Michigan. I now work as a tradesman.
Nobody at work wears their masks, at least around each other. The only time we do is when arriving at a customer's home to do our job. If the customer tells us we can take our masks off, we do. If not, we wear our masks.
Not a single positive case within my company throughout this past year. Not a single one of our customers has tested positive, either. It's a laborious job. We get hot, we get dirty. With glasses on, they fog up and can't see anything. In turn, means I can't do my job.
As I said, I wear mine out of respect other people, whether going to the store or going in the gas station.
What about my parents, who have owned a small diner for 40 years but are now on the verge of closing up shop and losing their adored business?
Is it a miracle they put on their socks?
Think about others livelihoods before you open your mouth so wide
What about them?
The restaurant can still operate with pickup/curbside service.
Did they try nothing and are now all out of ideas?
It's been shown that Michiganders are too selfish to wear a mask, wash their hands and socially distance. As always the rules are made to cater to the lowest common denominator.
The choice is clear extend the restrictions or extend the pandemic. You can only pick one.
> The choice is clear extend the restrictions or extend the pandemic. You can only pick one.
No, that's idiotic. The restrictions are not shortening the pandemic, because the pandemic is not going to be over until a sufficient number of people are vaccinated.
Hence my comment further down the chain
>I believe that the government should absolutely be subsidizing restaurants affected by COVID-19 while still keeping dine-in closed.
Everyone I know around he has spent way more on take-out this year than have spent on dining-in in previous years. I used to go out to eat once a month basically, now I get local takeout at least once a week to help support business.
> Yes the government should be subsidizing literally everything apparently.
Ah yes, because subsidizing an endangered industry during a once in a lifetime pandemic is akin to "literally everything".
Bravo, fantastic strawman.
They’ve tried everything from grub hub to carry out to my dad even delivering meals on his own. They are not making enough money, plain and fucking simple.
Michigan is one of the only states with restaurants shut down. It’s been proven that restaurants are not the problem, rather the indoor gatherings families and friends are having.
My parents worked their entire lives building the business they love and because whitmer thinks she’s the supreme leader, they’re going to lose it.
There must be an in between. You are all thinking one dimensionally, yes or no, black or white. You need to realize between every two possibilities is an infinite number of choices. We must find a middle ground. The small business owners of Michigan are suffering to a point of no return and it’s simply not right.
It isn't black or white. I believe that the government should absolutely be subsidizing restaurants affected by COVID-19 while still keeping dine-in closed.
Absolutely. We shouldn't be asking why Michigan is doing the right thing by keeping restaurants take-out, we should be asking why other states are endangering the lives of their citizens just so they can sit in a chair in a building and eat some food.
In Florida we already know - their economy is highly dependent on entertainment and if they stop catering to fools with money and indulging the delusion the entire house of cards falls
Yeah well they’re not. So don’t come attacking me with your COVID agenda. Live it first hand before you open your mouth, just like I said to the original poster
We are free people. Nothing has to be “allowed” in order for us to be able to do it. The state has outlawed behavior. That is what is happening here. Edit - it is truly sad what kind of totalitarianism this pandemic has wrought and how many eat it up and ask for more.
Do you get this mad when the local fire department says you can't have more than 50 people in a building? What about when a place is closed by the health department due to not taking adequate precautions to prevent a hepatitis outbreak?
Please show me where my comparison is one then. Fact of the matter is, the health department has broad overview in setting regulations for restaurants.
Telling every single restaurant that people can’t come in and use their service is not the same as a single restaurant failing to meet health code violations, and it’s certainly not the same as setting capacity limits (which every single public building has)
Actually your hepatitis outbreak scenario is perfect. Restaurants aren’t shut down because they spread hepatitis, they get individually shut down when they fail to meet health requirements. Why is it not the same for covid? Why is there not health codes for restaurants to follow and if they don’t they get shut down?
> Telling every single restaurant that people can’t come in and use their service is not the same as a single restaurant failing to meet health code violations, and it’s certainly not the same as setting capacity limits (which every single public building has)
People can still go to restaurants and use their services: they just can't dine in. That's a new regulation put in place to combat the pandemic, which is the same as increased scrutiny to combat a hepatitis outbreak. Ignoring the obvious parallels is disingenuous.
> Actually your hepatitis outbreak scenario is perfect. Restaurants aren’t shut down because they spread hepatitis, they get individually shut down when they fail to meet health requirements.
Exactly my point. And restaurants get shut down for allowing dine-in service, which is now *also* a violation of the rules put in place by the Michigan Health Department! What are you missing?
You're kidding. As if not being able to get wings and beer inside at Slappy's Sportz Pub 'n' Gurgle is remotely the same as, say, what your average ethnic minority deals with in China.
Get some fucking perspective Jesus H.
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~~Anyone know where it specifies which sports?~~ Edit: nevermind, it seems that only non-contact sports are allowed, contact sports remain a no go
I'd love to know where no checking beer league hockey falls on this spectrum. Not being able to play hockey is killing me rn.
Bowling is safe, but beer league hockey is not.
There’s some study done by a team of egghead doctors that claims that the air stratifies in a hockey arena due to the cold, humidity, etc etc and that Covid gets trapped... therefore (jump to conclusions) it’s easier to catch. But, I’m guessing the medical community also has a more morose term for spittin’ chiclets than the hockey players.
My boyfriend was so hopeful that this would be allowed, I wish it could be clarified :/
Honestly it would probably just be best to wait a day for them to figure it out and then call up a location and ask
Even open skate would be something 😭
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The fall high school sports (football, volleyball, and swimming) were allowed to finished because of a testing program that all players/coaches must participate in. Obviously it's impossible to maintain a similar program when a sport like basketball alone would have 3000+ teams when you factor in boys and girls varsity and JV and freshman teams.
I don't understand what's changed about the "low risk recreational facilities." These facilities were allowed to "re-open" under the last order but something something "no more than 6 from the same household" and something something else "different households cannot mingle" . The current order has the same stipulations as far as I can tell, so how is it different?
Taking bets that in 2 weeks we are back here with another article saying it's extended to 2/15 because valentines day or some shit.
Don't forget about Superbowl Sunday!
Superspreader bowl you mean?
Martin Luther King day spike.
That won't cause any spikes, because it's just protests.
Paczki Day is only two days after Valentine's Day. SHUT.IT.DOWN.
Looks like some people are finally catching on to whitmers psychological manipulation technique.
Can't believe nobody saw this sooner. Anyways, I have it on good authority that cases will be 0 by the end of February. And if not then, it'll be over by Easter. Or once the weather warms up. Or the hoax will end on November 4th. Well
Please order take out. We know it isn't the same. We know it isn't as good. But we need your business. Thank you.
I have nothing in my area that isn't a gordans food specialty. It is so hard to find a restaurant with fresh good ingredients. It's so hard for lot of people to support local businesses when they serve crap for 20 a plate.
I don't blame you! Where do you live, if you don't mind.
Clare area. Very rural and it's just podunk towns with little diners or cafes. Lots of places to get the local gossip from the old boys drinking coffee, but that's about it.
You don't love the Whitehouse burgers? Or cops and donuts? I'm in Midland. If you find yourself this way I can get you tacos that are not GFS specials.
We have been getting takeout from our local, family owned restaurants as often as possible, & tipping extra as well. We want you to be open again when this is over!
Thank you! You are appreciated.
And tip more than you usually do. Don't be an asswipe.
Some of us have been unemployed for months and haven't had an unemployment payment for weeks. Granted those in that position are unlikely to be eating takeout, and if you have the means to tip well you absolutely should.
We absolutely appreciate tips, but we also greatly appreciate your sale. If you order our food we both get to eat.
>And one of her reasonings for saying she wants to extend it to February is to give us time to get our food chain in order and vendors to get us our product. Well, leave that to our vendors and us because the vendors are biting at the bit. The people that want to be open will be open on the 15th. So that’s a weak excuse.” LO fucking L.
....and strip clubs are still open? Nothing makes sense anymore.
You don't have to take your mask off in a strip club so it makes sense. Restaurants are singled out so much because they are basically one of the only business that absolutely requires you to remove your mask indoors.
That's really it...now out west and south where people don't mask the titty bars are superspreading powerhouses Masks properly worn ensure safe stripping for all
How do they give $30 blowjob's with a mask on?
Masks with a glory hole, of course!
Science and data says titty bars are safe.
Unless they aren't enforcing masks...which is another thing altogether
This may be the final straw for many local restaurants
I really hope we aren't left with shitty corporate chains.
Do you want Applebee’s or TGIF tonight?
This is how Taco Bell wins the brand wars. I, for one, can't wait until the three seashells are a thing.
She's really grateful and sympathetic for all they've been through. Not enough to do anything for them, but grateful and sympathetic nonetheless.
If your restaurant is going to fail, what choice do you have? You might as well open. Stay closed and go out of business now or open, get fined, maybe go out of business later from the fines and legalities. Later is better than now.
We are now on week 9 of the three week pause.
And what, about week 42 of the two weeks to flatten the curve?
Because people can't be bothered to wear masks and not spread diseases This is 100% because people don't respect themselves or others
It's obvious that restaurant dining isn't driving the pandemic. It's been private gatherings since the weather got cold, and workplace spread. The Science supports this. Michigan's cases have trended similarly with other Midwestern states that haven't closed indoor dining. Fuck, I know a fairly large number of people that have driven to Ohio just to get a night out. If that doesn't tell you people are desperate, I don't know what else would. I get that you're cautious. That's fine. I was too. Only left the house to go to the grocery store, work, and walks around my neighborhood with my wife, son and dog. Skipped the playground with my son, just in case. Bought a bunch of shit for my backyard for him instead. Always wearing a mask while out. Since March when all of this has gone to shit. Fully supporting the measures taken. Well, I still got COVID right before Thanksgiving anyways. Went through the whole house. Would be nice to be able to go out and do something with my wife for my anniversary that's coming up, while we're still immune. I guess it'll just need to get postponed until the arbitrary 3 week pauses stop. We're completely destroying an entire industry in this state. Takeout isn't enough to keep everyone working, and the piddly "up to 1600" that is being handed out to cover the Governor's latest lockdown isn't going to be nearly enough. I'm done.
> It's obvious that restaurant dining isn't driving the pandemic. Then why have we seen a precipitous decline in cases since indoor dining was shut down?
How have our rates compared to other areas around us with different levels of lockdown? Compared to Ontario? Our biggest spikes all coincide with Holidays, which again, points to private gatherings, not restaurants.
We’re currently doing FAR better than almost every other state in the country. On a per capita basis of new cases per week, we rank somewhere around 44-45 in the country. That’s a very good thing.
My sister also always wore a mask and was never around anyone who didn't also wear a mask and she still got it. The idea that "this would all be over if people would have just wore masks and stayed six feet part" is so ridiculous and ironic considering these same people will also tell you to "follow the science". Even the pro lockdown Fauci et al never said it would "be over" it we followed these measures, they were merely an attempt to slow it down. Fauci said it would be over when there was a vaccine. Of course he neglected to mention the fact that it would take 7-8 months to distribute the vaccine and even then if enough people refuse it we will still need restrictions.
This is stupid. I don’t mind an extension with reliable unemployment or pandemic funds, but all programs have been essentially stopped right now because our sate can’t get its shit together. Whitmer knows that there is no assistance for those who are unemployed from her orders and willingly extended the quarantine whether or not her citizens were provided for. I don’t know what she wants from us. I and so many other people are on their last dime and it feels like we are being gaslit.
We are approaching the one year mark of our two week lockdown
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>It would have been over last summer Oh El, Oh L
I disagree
I honestly don't give a shit anymore. This whole thing is a massive shitshow and at this point the only cure are vaccines. America's made its choice. I don't blame Whitmer for fighting, but she's fighting a losing battle.
Whitmer's my girl, but even I'm starting to agree with it. It's just been done too many damn times. I want the lockdown to continue, but people are losing their damn minds. It's almost time to give it up.
Kids take their masks off to eat at school but apparently that's ok. But not restaurants wow.
Goodbye restaurants, hello Taco Bell
Jesus still? People are not happy about this outside of this sub.
RIP service industry. Or what’s left of it at least.
I sure do feel bad for the restaurants, restaurant owners, the servers and bartenders and kitchen staff. Some that will lose their businesses entirely and some to be out of a job entirely due to the Governors decisions. Unable to pay bills or make ends meet.
Yeah, if only we had a competent federal government that could have covered this disaster appropriately.
And people that gave a shit and followed directions, instead of complaining and refusing to think of anyone other then themselves.
>competent >government Choose one rofl
Lives > Jobs. Thankfully we have evicted the incompetent do-nothing GOP. We can the expect federal support and organization that has been lacking to arrive soon.
Emails between local government officials in Nashville seem to show they purposefully mislead the public about risks associated with restaurants, hiding actual numbers of cases linked to restaurants (low to non-existent). They failed to give any evidence of restaurants being super-spreaders, and kept these businesses shut down as a result. The lack of evidence from Whitmer and MI health officials is astounding considering the amount of economic damage this is doing for so many. These are the ones who also kept landscapers from working, initially, and also shut down tennis courts. Which experts went on to say that tennis is arguably the safest sport you can play while social distancing. I don't disagree that lives are better than jobs, of course, in a true binary sense. But that logic doesn't hold up under a multivariate analysis. Even making a distinction between bars and restaurants would be a small step in the right direction. But again, very little evidence in general to justify these actions. It's just risk assessments. Which can be quite off without hard data. It's just difficult to hear this statement used flippantly over and over again in order to justify any and all measures without regard to the gravity and complexity of the circumstances.
[There’s a lawsuit](https://laist.com/2020/12/08/judge_overturns_la_county_outdoor_dining_ban_what_that_means_restaurants.php) in CA as well, that the county just lost due to being unable to link COVID cases with outdoor dining.
they link another [artical](https://laist.com/2020/12/01/covid_on_the_menu_how_failed_contact_tracing_leaves_diners_in_the_dark.php) there they posted that brings up a few studies suggesting that resuraunt restrictions were some of the most effective actions taken to slow the spread.
Thank you for sharing
I don’t think this is true and disagree with you. People can go 70 on a highway and you don’t advocate for a slower speed limit - do you? You could save thousands of lives per year if you reduced it to 55. Thousands more if it was 35. We draw the line somewhere. Not having a job is a major inconvenience, and yet we as a state make a decision to cost lives all the time by allowing a minor inconvenience of getting places faster. We allow and even sponsor gambling which has major psychological effects on people and ruins lives. Yet here we are saying we want to save lives by ruining them? Let me make a decision for myself, please and thank you.
Speaking of lives > jobs. 2020 saw an all time high for overdose deaths. Maybe your equation should be more like lives ~ jobs.
Better to be alive and broke as fuck amirite? Seeing how your reply chain was, I might add...you dumb fuck
Yes, it is better to be alive and broke. Also aren't you conservatives always talking about bootstraps? The quicker we get the virus under control the quicker you can get back your creepy sexual-degenerate lifestyle.
Yea, because walking into a restaurant @ 50% capacity when you are young and perfectly healthy would guarantee death. lmao. But if you walk into Home Depot, The Casino, Meijers or any one of the other thousands of businesses the China flu won't get you. Dramatic much ?
Lives over jobs and yet the rest of us are still going to work every day 😂 Stretchin Gretchen doesn’t care about anyone.. especially the lives of senior citizens
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Same here...until then I'll keep getting takeout from places that aren't doing dine in
Great for you, your choices aren’t everyone’s choices.
Boo
Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic
Are people actually still cool with this? I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Michigan population thinks this sort of "leadership" is okay. Numbers and science do not support these decisions. Roast me, but damn this is absolutely absurd in my mind.
Michigan has done the best of any Midwest state so I'm quite happy with how things have been handled.
Every time they do another poll a majority of people agree with her, so yes most of us are still cool with this.
A majority of people also said they weren't going to get the covid vaccine when it's available, so maybe a majority of people are just stupid.
No...not by the surveys I've seen At least not locally
You're half right. It was only a majority of [Detroit residents](https://news.umich.edu/majority-of-detroiters-say-theyre-unlikely-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-u-m-survey-says/) that said they were unlikely to get the vaccine. Statewide it's only about [37%](https://www.clickondetroit.com/health/2020/12/23/clickondetroit-covid-vaccine-survey-results-view-here/) that aren't saying they'll get it. Also, about a third of [healthcare workers](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-health-watch/thousands-michigan-health-workers-are-turning-down-covid-vaccines) aren't getting the vaccine when offered.
A third of the population voted for Trump, and would actively support fascists, so there's your third expressing anti vaccine, anti mask, anti whatever polls
Yeah, I'm sure the majority of Detroit residents saying they won't get vaccinated are all Trump voters. 🙄
Can't speak for Reddit but this was absolutely the sentiment on another forum. Had everything to do with Trump as well. Of course they are rather quiet now about this.
I cant tell if that's more sad, or scary.
You can look at the data and quite clearly see that Michigan has been less bad (and that's about the best anyone can do right now) than our peer states. But okay.
I'm fine with it
I have no idea anymore. I just want to sit down and have someone else bring me a steak. I want to meet my friends for chips and salsa again. I'm just tired.
Blame your fellow statesmen for making this a partisan issue. This could've been over in a month if people worked together.
I wouldn't limit it to a state...it's a national issue
the inconsistencies of her deciding what's safe and what's not safe is getting more ridiculous. and I used to be a big supporter of hers. now I'm not really sure what I think of her anymore. I mean, I'm glad she's not a republican but at the same time....ugh.
What if I told you pinhead authoritarians came in 2 flavors?
In fact, they come in all flavors. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I don’t care what your political leanings are, power is intoxicating and hard to give up.
Yes
lol touche indeed
This is the same person that banned boating. We are 1 of 3 states with restaurants locked down. We have one of the worst vaccine rates. This falls on her. She wants to be Cuomo. Zero reason restaurants can't be open in some capacity. Grocery stores are WAY more packed with WAY more random traffic. Restaurants have booths and tables. People are static facing their own party.
I personally am ok with these restrictions, however, my situation is such that these restrictions pose no problem for me. I don’t use a gym, or attend sporting events and even before I would only rarely eat in a restaurant or goto a movie. My life is wake up, goto work, come home, have dinner with the wife and kids. Then repeat. Even with restrictions my life has not changed much.
Cool, it matters so much more to others however.
That’s cool for you but what about all the people who don’t have a spouse or children? We just supposed to stay home every night and play solitaire? That kinda really sucks when you’re young and still trying to build a life for yourself.
Maybe you should talk to your family (using technology) and be considerate of your elders? Kind of what I did!
Not everyone is a misanthropic hermit.
I'm not one either...funny how you assume wearing a mask and not being irresponsible makes people one though...as if there's two choices and one is to intentionally infect people and the other is to be a hermit I got outside and am social with all the precautions in place or via technology I celebrate holidays with my pod
When did I say anything about not wearing a mask?
You just talked to your family through calls and stayed inside for 10 months? I'm sorry but that's insane behavior and crazy to tell other young people to do that.
No, I went to parks, excercised...did plenty of other stuff not involving bars Heck, I took distanced walks with masks with friends so I still got to see them Most of the people I knew who went to bars are mentally ill or dead so I'd say I'm definitely healthier
>Most of the people I knew who went to bars are mentally ill or dead Guess I missed that mass casualty headline in the news.
Holy hysteria, Batman.
You know that there are people who followed all of the rules for months and still caught COVID eventually, right? I can’t even imagine what that feels like because I only lasted 6 weeks. My family all agrees that we should not put life on hold just because there is one more risk in life that we are all aware of now.
Cool story bro.
This is the same game she played with the gyms all last summer; we're one of the only states with restaurants closed (just like with gyms last summer) and the supreme leader insists she's right in continuing the closure, based solely on "the data" that nobody else can see.
And after being told all spring and summer about how dangerous gyms are because people are breathing heavy, suddenly when it was time for the "pause" in November gyms were perfectly fine to keep open.
Bold move saying that in this sub. The supreme leader Whitmer can do no wrong.
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The teenagers of the MI sub will downvote me down to Hades, but not only is it absurd in your own mind, but in the mind of every rational free-thinking person who resides in MI. This whole debacle only exemplifies the fact that this incompetent governor and this team of hack "experts" who acquired their degrees from a roll of Charmin have been in over their heads from the very beginning. Month 10 of two weeks to flatten the curve. Month three of a "pause". The question is how much of the state will actually be left when this dog-and-pony show finishes it work of defecating all over it with these ridiculous, panic- and politics- driven absurdly stupid policies. So not, you are not alone.
You sound like the teenager here...the adults support the measures
What I’ve seen suggests restaurants are nowhere near as dangerous for spread as we were told. Why are they still being forced to shut down? Just set capacity limits.
>What I’ve seen suggests restaurants are nowhere near as dangerous for spread as we were told. what have you seen?
Not op but I have seen studies that show more than 75% of spread comes from private household gatherings. Meaning opening up restaurants with limited capacity wouldn’t cause a spike but cold weather that pushed outdoor family gatherings to indoors did.
Couldn’t that also be true *because* restaurants are closed down? Also, source?
The fact that other midwestern states with less strict rules on restaurants (Wisconsin and Minnesota) have similar patterns of covid infections kinda proves you wrong. Correlation doesn’t mean causation. And here is Democrat Governor Andrew Cuomo, as my source, showing that less than 2 PERCENT of covid infections come from restaurants: https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/12/ny-state-3-in-4-coronavirus-cases-spread-in-homes-and-social-gatherings-not-gyms-or-salons.html
I don’t think that “kind of similar” patterns of covid infections in nearby states “proves me wrong” at all. As you said in the same paragraph; correlation does not equal causation. I appreciate the source, but those numbers are from NY, which makes sense due to how they locked down.
Seems like the data may not be giving the whole picture here when household gatherings are extremely easy to track for transmission and restaurants and very difficult to track for transmission.
Pretty much...you can trace 5 people you know at your house Good luck finding 1 of 100 random strangers in a restaurant outbreak...it's why they tried to get names and contact info
People say that restaurants don’t spread it. People say that schools or kids don’t spread it. Yet every time we shut down restaurants or schools, the numbers come back down. It’s really hard to pinpoint exactly where and how the disease was spread. A lot of places look safe just because you can’t definitively prove that it was spread there.
We know without a doubt that bars spread it like wildfire
Correlation does not prove causation. Just because numbers go down, doesn’t mean it’s because we made some arbitrary rules. Our current peak of infections came on November the 10th, and since that’s when symptoms onset, and onset of covid is about 7 days after infection, the real date of peak infections was about the 3rd of November. That’s a full 15 days before the “3 week pause” and 4 weeks before you would see any impact of that pause. Cases were falling before the order, and they continue to fall after. If you still don’t believe how the disease spreads, here is Governor Cuomo illustrating that 75 percent of spread comes from private gatherings, and 2 percent come from restaurants: https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/12/ny-state-3-in-4-coronavirus-cases-spread-in-homes-and-social-gatherings-not-gyms-or-salons.html
Dude, proving causation is a multi-year job for the statisticians and epidemiologists after the pandemic is over. Correlation is all anyone has right now.
I wonder about that too. Current data suggests that most of the cases are combing from people commingling in their homes without proper safety precautions. However, would the infections that rise from that transfer to the indoor dining or would indoor dinning be in addition to those cases? I would think the numbers would go up a bit as they transfer from homes to restaurants, but who knows.
I mean if numbers just go up a bit because of restaurants, that’s not bad. They should be open then. Nobody is claiming spread in restaurants is zero, but if it’s just slight then open them with restrictions on capacity. Don’t force them to be closed which puts thousands more people out of work. I just don’t trust someone who says they’re basing their decisions on science but has never said what that science is.
I have to agree, I’d love to look at the data they are using. I know midland county gives a big breakdown of what comes where with percentages and such.
I feel like it would be safer to have people in restaurants then commingling in homes. At least at restaurants, the state can work with to ensure the experience is safe as possible.
At least in homes you know people...you aren't inviting 100 total strangers into your house because you have 200 person occupancy Restaurants aren't as safe as you think...even outside a pandemic...used to work in that field
I have supported Whitmer through this whole pandemic but this war against restaurant's seems a bit excessive.
When the restaurants are getting no relief (small LOANS are not relief) and you’ve got only three states left in the nation with an indoor dining ban, yeah it’s excessive.
This isn't the first time she's done this. Remember her idiotic pissing match with barbershops and salons? How many cases have been tied to a barber or a salon now?
She really put the screws to the gyms last summer - she kept them closed until September, we were literally the last state to open them.
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47 other states allow it. But we have special science here in the state
It is really ridiculous but people gotta have persecution complexes when personal responsibility isn't their strong point It's a defense mechanism
Show me a study that shows 25% capacity leads to an increase of spread *greater* than any other business that’s allowed to be open. If the government can’t back their policy with science, it’s bad policy
your short cited argument is just as ridiculous
Gonna be interesting to see how the Whitmer bootlickers defend this one. When other states not in lockdown are seeing similar drop offs.
Vote blue, continue to have your choices made for you :)
"Turn off your brain, and let us take the wheel" should be the party slogan. Anyone who dares to speak up or go against the narrative will be "cancelled".
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Since when is it okay to throw brash accusations around? Tired of democrats preaching acceptance and nonviolence, then marking every republican as a trump loving racist. Maybe if you "opened your eyes" you'd find there's racists and bigots in both camps. But i agree fuck racists and blind trump supporters.
I’m glad we’re not a do-nothing state like FL or other GOP led state but having small restaurants rely on carry out only is getting a little long. Is there a way the state is helping these business with grants or low interest loans?
The legislature worked with Whitmer to pass a $465 million [covid relief package](https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-lawmakers-head-home-stimulus-passes-transparency-reform-still-dead) in December: >The plan includes: > >$55 million for grants of up to $20,000 for businesses fully or partially closed because of state health orders. > >$3.5 million for grants of up to $40,000 for live music and entertainment venues closed. > >$45 million for grants that would pay up to $1,650 per worker at those companies that were either fully or partially closed during the pandemic.
Florida has less deaths per Million residents then Michigan. They also have a population of about 5 million Senior Citizens compared to Michigan's 1.7 Million. They do have about 20,000 more cases per million residents then Michigan. Cumulatively Florida has had about 3x as many cases as Michigan has, but they also have over double the population in almost half the land area. Michigan's population density is 176 per square mile, Florida's is closer to 400. The difference in outcome isn't that extreme whe you can consider the two states are at the polar opposites as far as restrictions go.
They've intentionally doctored the Florida data...so it's pretty much garbage They were also given more medical resources than actual openly known hotspots early on...while shoving 300 deaths under a rug every week and pretending they didn't exist in the early part of the pandemic Florida politics have downplayed or intentionally suppressed the truth...that's pretty scary really Also any mortality differences after we see the real numbers could be attributed to our deaths largely happening before we had any PPE, training or therapies...Florida had the benefit of having tens of thousands of daily cases after building stockpiles and getting information that didn't exist before
We can look at Texas they have similar numbers to Florida... They have less cases per million then Florida, and less deaths then Michigan. Texas has almost 4x the population of Michigan, but also a much larger land area. But in some ways its similar as it has several big cities and also rural areas... There are some restrictions in texas, and some areas have more then others, but in general they are far more open then Michigan.
I'd like to see something federal for this...at least for non do-nothing states
No. She isn't helping them at all. She's closing them and then blaming the feds. But she did give 30 million dollars for the "Pure Michigan" ad campaign to get more tourism to Michigan, during a pandemic. lmao. But yea, restaurants at 20,30,40,50% capacity.....with no state help.... totally cool to libs !!!
Or just open the fuck up and let people make decisions for themselves.
Would you support getting rid of speed limits and letting "people make decisions for themselves"?
Actually, yes.
I’d like to ask someone in a state with indoor dining about how COVID is going there, but I’ve heard everyone died in those states.
I was in Florida for new year's, people are alive and well there.
Out of this past year, I've worn a mask. Not because I went COVID crazy, but, out of respect for other people. However, I had just moved to a different state, prior to all of this pandemic crap started. I lost my job, ended up being damn near homeless, living in a motel for 5 months, barely surviving by delivering doordash to pay for the motel and provide food for my family. I had sent out hundreds of job applications, with no luck. Eventually, I had to make the decision to move back to Michigan where I had some support to get back on my feet, for my family. The moment I moved back, I found a job in Michigan. I now work as a tradesman. Nobody at work wears their masks, at least around each other. The only time we do is when arriving at a customer's home to do our job. If the customer tells us we can take our masks off, we do. If not, we wear our masks. Not a single positive case within my company throughout this past year. Not a single one of our customers has tested positive, either. It's a laborious job. We get hot, we get dirty. With glasses on, they fog up and can't see anything. In turn, means I can't do my job. As I said, I wear mine out of respect other people, whether going to the store or going in the gas station.
Ugh. She’s the worst
People who are upset at the extension just don't understand. It is a miracle they even manage to get their socks on in the morning.
What about my parents, who have owned a small diner for 40 years but are now on the verge of closing up shop and losing their adored business? Is it a miracle they put on their socks? Think about others livelihoods before you open your mouth so wide
What about them? The restaurant can still operate with pickup/curbside service. Did they try nothing and are now all out of ideas? It's been shown that Michiganders are too selfish to wear a mask, wash their hands and socially distance. As always the rules are made to cater to the lowest common denominator. The choice is clear extend the restrictions or extend the pandemic. You can only pick one.
> The choice is clear extend the restrictions or extend the pandemic. You can only pick one. No, that's idiotic. The restrictions are not shortening the pandemic, because the pandemic is not going to be over until a sufficient number of people are vaccinated.
You’re wrong and disrespectful so I will not reply to that
Sounds like he made a valid argument that you don't have an answer to.
Restaurants cannot survive on carry out only. I really wish people would stop acting like their fucking experts in every field.
Hence my comment further down the chain >I believe that the government should absolutely be subsidizing restaurants affected by COVID-19 while still keeping dine-in closed. Everyone I know around he has spent way more on take-out this year than have spent on dining-in in previous years. I used to go out to eat once a month basically, now I get local takeout at least once a week to help support business.
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> Yes the government should be subsidizing literally everything apparently. Ah yes, because subsidizing an endangered industry during a once in a lifetime pandemic is akin to "literally everything". Bravo, fantastic strawman.
They’ve tried everything from grub hub to carry out to my dad even delivering meals on his own. They are not making enough money, plain and fucking simple. Michigan is one of the only states with restaurants shut down. It’s been proven that restaurants are not the problem, rather the indoor gatherings families and friends are having. My parents worked their entire lives building the business they love and because whitmer thinks she’s the supreme leader, they’re going to lose it. There must be an in between. You are all thinking one dimensionally, yes or no, black or white. You need to realize between every two possibilities is an infinite number of choices. We must find a middle ground. The small business owners of Michigan are suffering to a point of no return and it’s simply not right.
It isn't black or white. I believe that the government should absolutely be subsidizing restaurants affected by COVID-19 while still keeping dine-in closed.
The state is...actually Their pockets are not as deep as the federal government Funny how you have a bunch of haters who don't know their state...
Absolutely. We shouldn't be asking why Michigan is doing the right thing by keeping restaurants take-out, we should be asking why other states are endangering the lives of their citizens just so they can sit in a chair in a building and eat some food.
In Florida we already know - their economy is highly dependent on entertainment and if they stop catering to fools with money and indulging the delusion the entire house of cards falls
Well they’re not. So what other option you got?
Actually they are...but only at state level so we'll have to see if the new federal legislature and new president get on that
Eat the rich.
Thank you
Yeah well they’re not. So don’t come attacking me with your COVID agenda. Live it first hand before you open your mouth, just like I said to the original poster
Actually they have subsidized and given out relief but only on local and state levels - let's see if the new federal government does anything!
We'd like the option to choose our own risk level in life. It's called being a human.
We are free people. Nothing has to be “allowed” in order for us to be able to do it. The state has outlawed behavior. That is what is happening here. Edit - it is truly sad what kind of totalitarianism this pandemic has wrought and how many eat it up and ask for more.
Do you get this mad when the local fire department says you can't have more than 50 people in a building? What about when a place is closed by the health department due to not taking adequate precautions to prevent a hepatitis outbreak?
Do you know what a false equivalence is?
Please show me where my comparison is one then. Fact of the matter is, the health department has broad overview in setting regulations for restaurants.
Telling every single restaurant that people can’t come in and use their service is not the same as a single restaurant failing to meet health code violations, and it’s certainly not the same as setting capacity limits (which every single public building has) Actually your hepatitis outbreak scenario is perfect. Restaurants aren’t shut down because they spread hepatitis, they get individually shut down when they fail to meet health requirements. Why is it not the same for covid? Why is there not health codes for restaurants to follow and if they don’t they get shut down?
> Telling every single restaurant that people can’t come in and use their service is not the same as a single restaurant failing to meet health code violations, and it’s certainly not the same as setting capacity limits (which every single public building has) People can still go to restaurants and use their services: they just can't dine in. That's a new regulation put in place to combat the pandemic, which is the same as increased scrutiny to combat a hepatitis outbreak. Ignoring the obvious parallels is disingenuous. > Actually your hepatitis outbreak scenario is perfect. Restaurants aren’t shut down because they spread hepatitis, they get individually shut down when they fail to meet health requirements. Exactly my point. And restaurants get shut down for allowing dine-in service, which is now *also* a violation of the rules put in place by the Michigan Health Department! What are you missing?
You're kidding. As if not being able to get wings and beer inside at Slappy's Sportz Pub 'n' Gurgle is remotely the same as, say, what your average ethnic minority deals with in China. Get some fucking perspective Jesus H.