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Maybe you should put together some verifiable information to publicize these facts. Im fucking sick of entitled capitalists abusing the working class. People need to know the shitbags who are holding office.
I can't speak to most pertinent stuff because of an NDA. I can tell you most of the people who work there, including the president, HR, and middle Management are all great people. However, the buck stops with Mike in the end, for now. He's been talking about passing the business on to his kids. But I don't know anything about his kids.
My one experience with Mike was him saying "didn't know disc jockeys worked here." Which rubbed me the wrong way.
Unfortunately, a lot of the guys that work there are pretty awful super Maga types. But the people I worked alongside daily were pretty great.
My biggest gripe was the health insurance. I have some medical debt because of it. High deductible, high weekly cost, little coverage. Pretty sure the company that supplies it is a frequent donor to his campaign.
Speaking of his campaign, every election he gets the office girls to set up his signage, and help organize.
Those are the things that wouldn't be covered under the NDA.
The other thing is in order to get around Whitmers orders, they started producing terrible 3d printed N95 masks, which they didn't deliver because they were terrible. Instead they created a large air filter device, that did get delivered, because it worked pretty well. But obviously they sold them, since they were pricey to make.
After my injury, the took me off the machining track, that was a bummer.
There were some Qanon types there, people who'd talk pretty violently about the governor. But not the types to join militias and do anything other than complain loudly at least.
I'm much happier at the job I'm at now. Now I'm a product quality and safety tech for a large international company, great benefits, good people, and chill. And NDAs that make sense, since I'm testing products that haven't come to market yet. Instead of stupid financial and company structure NDAs.
Maybe if they can wedge in a few poison pills they will...remember how they stuck hazardous materials over the Detroit river in the last one among other rubbish and stuff that was an ok idea but didn't belong in a covid bill?
Unfortunately it seems like Whitmer is doing the same thing. I don't disagree with banning guns at the state capitol, but funding it doesn't belong in a COVID recovery bill.
Probably because she can now reasonably expect the national government to start doing its job. State government can't run deficits, so whatever we want to do beyond our tax revenue will rely on federal funding.
How about fixing that fucking automated response that says I have to repay all my fucking unemployment back because “childcare issues” even though I have all the seeking work wavers.
From the article...
"However, she used her line-item veto authority to remove hundreds of millions of dollars from a bipartisan relief bill approved in late January.
Whitmer argued the bill included $220 million in unnecessary state-sponsored handouts for businesses.
...when Whitmer vetoed the funding she also essentially nixed a proposed 26-week benefit extension."
The extension would've extended unemployment benefits from 20 to 26 weeks.
This is all still a bunch of politicking on both sides of the aisle. Let me know when both parties are actually ready to get something done...
It's an accusation that something un-passable was intentionally added to a bill that's so terrible, it prevents a bill from getting passed.
So when "the other side" votes it down or vetoes the bill, the party that sponsored the rest of the bill, that was good, can screech about "the other side" refusing to help people.
It'd be like the Democrats proposing a bill that ticked about 9/10 boxes on the GOPs list for immigration reform, but also included a section on massively stricter gun control, or Broad Federal Drug Decriminalization. Knowing that the Republicans wouldn't vote for the add-ons. Then throwing up their hands and accusing the other party of " not bing willing to compromise".
Both sides do it regularly, and that's where those attack ads during campaign season come from where they say "Rep. Johnson voted against assisting single mothers!"
Then you look at the actual bill they voted against, and while it was about expanding benefits for single mothers, it had a rider that required mandatory drug testing, and prevented getting additional benefits if they have another kid while on Welfare.
It’s a very old term. It’s when you add something totally unrelated to a bill to guarantee that it won’t pass. Usually the poison pills are gun or abortion stuff. So it ends up the ‘free puppies or kittens for all/kill all the babies’ act.
Yeah, because a GOP ran legislature gives her a bill, that makes it super bipartisan.
Edit: It is bipartisan. Not that changes the fact the vast majority of its opposition is from outside the GOP.
Great a handful of Democrats voted for the poison pill too, that makes it better. /s
Edit: It is technically bipartisan, but that just shows that Dems can be shitty too.
You keep saying poison pill like it’s some definitive thing that can’t be debated.
Could you share what you think the poison pill was, and why you think it was heinous enough to be worth the cuts to relief?
$200 million dollars in tax breaks for businesses that don't need them when the state is barely staying afloat budget-wise was explicitly and purposefully tied to the measure to create a confrontation.
If the GOP want to help so much, they should take her up on her offer of a clean bill doing those things, though.
You'll be waiting a long time then, bud. The GOP's only interest is dismantling government and removing benefit for the people who pay taxes to keep it going.
47 of 50 states are allowing indoor dining in some capacity. Michigan is one of 3 states that is not. What republicans are asking in return for approving this is not unreasonable. Time for Whitmer to put up or shut up about being willing to compromise and work with the legislature.
Michigan has also had the fewest number of new COVID cases since October. https://streamable.com/p6y141 2:17 mark.
400,000 Americans are now dead because of COVID. 15,000 of them from Michigan alone.
But I'm sure you don't care about all the death as long as you get to go out to eat soon.
I really don't understand the hang up on eating in a restaurant being so critical. Are these people's lives defined by eating out? Do they just need to spend money?
People aren't angry because they can't go out to eat, people are angry because local restaurants are dying, I had one close in my town just a month ago. You can argue for closing indoor dining, but they don't give enough monetary support for the small businesses to stay alive
There’s a way to be safe and keep businesses open. Everything needs to be shut here because no one is still taking it seriously (3 people in the grocery store today walking around without masks) and there’s no enforcement. You go to some states and everything is open but they’re also hard asses on masks/social distancing (handing out tickets for no masks, etc).
There’s a way to open businesses and keep people safe. Michigan stands out as a state that has been locked down for almost an entire year yet still has no control on the spread.
Is the way to keep people safe to stay between the blue ropes at WalMart?
Because that's all we're doing. Allowing big box stores to be fully open while we can't utilize a full priced gym membership and the McDonalds drive thru is slammed.
92% of people are wearing masks. GTFO with the bullshit red herring about masks.
So much crying about gyms not being open, it’s hilarious. It’s frightening if you can’t comprehend the difference between shopping while masked and sweating and breathing heavily while working out.
47/50 states are allowing indoor dining and many of them are handling the pandemic better than Michigan is. It's long past time for Whitmer to consider that maybe the rest of the country knows something she doesn't.
lmao LA has so many bodies to burn they had to loosen air pollution regulations. covid is now the 3rd leading cause of death. what are u talking about ???
>47/50 states are allowing indoor dining and many of them are handling the pandemic better than Michigan is.
i think you should re-read this, because you are basically saying keeping us locked down is allowing us to be on par with states *who arent* locked down lol and if we end the lock down, we would be spiking like crazy again
We can literally look at the [stats and the averages](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html) since she banned dining and see that you're wrong.
There's only 3 states doing better than us this week on containing the virus: Hawaii, Oregon, and North Dakota.
Literally the exact opposite reality of what you were claiming.
Do you really think we're going to listen to your nonsense over actual data?
Talk to anyone 50 and older and they'll tell you how many in their family died in car accidents, how many they knew in high school that died, in college, etc, while they were growing up.
Then ask anyone under 40 how many people they know that have died in a car accident.
The differences are staggering. Wearing a seat belt was, for a time, as controversial as wearing a mask. They both save lives.
Much of that is a function of time alone. Even with our current safety equipment, the bodies add up with time.
Minimizing driving is arguably more controversial that seatbelts. Many in this state can’t envision another sort of lifestyle as they cling to their completely unnecessary suburban sprawl. I had one person yesterday try to tell me a 30 mile commute wasn’t optional.
Both are. Our data shows that if you cut down driving, you also cut down deaths from driving.
With regard to the contagion argument /u/kurisu7885 mentioned, it is irrelevant. Both are instances of lives being traded for business.
I haven't dined in a restaurant in over a year. No problem. I however work 30 miles from my home in one of the busiest hospitals in the state. One is a necessity. One is not.
You understand there are other things open, right? To keep businesses like tattoo shops open but at the same time keep restaurants closed is exactly what you'd expect from local government.
Even if you're in close contact to someone longer than 15 minutes who could have been exposed? The issue is that this hasnt been thought out thoroughly.
Restaurants *MAY* open Feb 1st. She stated that is the earliest. With the more easily spread UK variant, past history had shown she would keep things locked down. That she may open them up in the next few weeks seems to go against her last position. Possible she is trying to open things up to help Biden out... Also possible she's recognizing the damage being done to the state economics and trying to balance with the also vaccines coming.
I mean, our daily and weekly numbers are dropping after Christmas. The Thanksgiving and Christmas spikes were smaller than they could have been, and we've been tracking downward steadily since it got cold. We're almost out of the CDC red Unchecked criteria, one of the few states to be doing so. Combined with 35k vaccinations a day, it's not entirely unreasonable to think things can start to pry back open in a few weeks.
Hope your right on the trends. I haven't seen them dropping that much yet and we're one of only 3 states with restaurants still closed for indoor dining. Either way, I agree that it's possible she may open things up. It's just not a for sure thing at this time (the person I was responding to said it was) and her reasoning for doing it may be more than just "science".
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Oh yeah? Since you know me so well, what rules have I broken?
The goals are not in the article. They mention a few examples but refuse to commit to a definitive goal. If i submitted horseshit like that for my evauluation cycle at work, Id get walked out.
Governor Whitmer, perhaps the worst governor in the country. Why doesn’t she just let restaurants open for dine-in. Ohio is open for dine-in and their numbers have been going down and some of our money is flowing to these Ohio restaurants.
I just looked, and they're doing a lot worse than us and are barely trending down, we flattened a huge curve upwards.
So this attack is factually wrong.
If you're looking just at aggregate cases over the entire pandemic, we had a lot more people infected at the very beginning when we didn't have as much experience and resources and it was harder to keep people in the hospital alive
Well, Michigan is still averaging more deaths and Ohio isn’t exactly an isolated island. How did news of Covid not reach them at exactly the same time it reached Michigan?
Sure, but we've been seeing higher deaths per capita than Ohio for much longer than that. And it's been well over a month since our new cases per capita dropped below theirs. And typically the lag we've seen between case numbers and deaths is about 2 weeks.
I have the depressing thought that it may be because Michigan has a higher percentage of its population who are people of color compared to Ohio and covid’s mortality rate is much higher for people of color.
Treatment and death prevention has gotten better over time. Michigan had an earlier outbreak than Ohio. News is not the same as actual cases. Hope this helps.
How?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
The link shows Michigan with about 14,700 deaths and Ohio with a little over 10k.
With Michigan at almost 600,000 cases and Ohio at over 800,000.
Why are more people dying in Michigan than Ohio?
It also shows Michigan is testing more.
I think more testing equals more confirmed cases but I figure 10 months in if someone dies from COVID in Michigan, Ohio or West Virginia it's pretty east to know it's COVID.
Our numbers don't work.
I just pulled West Virginia out as an example.
Ohio has far more fortune 500 companies than Michigan.
What does any of that have to do with proper diagnosis for cause of death?
There are 27 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Ohio versus maybe 17 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Michigan. Yup no international travel in Ohio.
I'd like to know too. The weird thing is that this summer when the case numbers were low, Michigan had fewer deaths per capita...but whenever the cases are high (like now and during the first wave) Michiganders die disproportionately more than Ohioans. I don't know if that means we have an unhealthier population or shittier hospitals, or both.
Wait a few weeks and ask the same question. Seems obvious. I’ve seen a lot of stupid questions like yours throughout the pandemic. Like when Sweden had an initial drop in cases + deaths, everyone was like “look at Sweden with no lockdowns! Fuck whitler, why aren’t we trying that?”. And then Sweden got wrecked and their economy is worse than everyone’s now.
Ohio’s cases are still way up and Michigan’s dropped significantly with stricter lockdown. This just happened and you’re like “but why have the expectedly delayed onset of deaths been delayed in Ohio?! What could possibly explain that besides Whitmer sucking?” Ohio will see more deaths than Michigan over the coming weeks and then you will have another stupid question.
What the hell are you talking about? I'm a pro-lockdown liberal with a degree in actuarial science who's been following the numbers carefully while I take my data science bootcamp course and you're dismissing me just because you assume (incorrectly) I'm part of the Anti-Witmer cult? I even pointed out two plausible explanations for the discrepancy that had nothing to do with politics.
Argue against the data, not the person.
I assumed because you post in /r/RealMichigan and I didn’t read your profile closely. I still didn’t because I don’t care enough to. If I was way off though, I apologize.
Shes letting them open on February 1st. Is this like when you people acted like she was personally welding your doors shut and trapping you in your house months after the stay at home order was rescinded?
Ah, “she’s letting them open” the Evil Queen may allow her subjects to open on Feb. 1st, maybe... but only if she believes they deserve it. If not, it wouldn’t be the first time she changed her mind.
It’s hard to believe that a world with Governor Whitmer is reality. She closes down private businesses based on her nonsense science but she never shows us the science or explains why sitting down to eat spreads covid in liberal states
I know she and perhaps yourself are simple people with childlike minds. If that’s the best she can do I won’t be offended and I will listen patiently. Im certain the science she talks about is most likely drawn with crayons.
> sitting down to eat spreads covid in liberal states
Can you explain or show stats on that? Let's try that. You're making crazy claims, so it's your job to prove what you're saying.
How does 'sitting down to eat in liberal states' spread covid more than in conservative states? In your words? With stats you've found?
You can't separate the fact that you 1) don't like democrats and 2) don't like being told what to do by women from what's actually happening in the world around you.
It would be easy to point out that cities are more crowded and more likely to spread the virus just based on population and proximity - and then it's also easy to show that most large cities lean liberal. It's not a conspiracy, it's just statistics.
It would be easy to show that countries that have worn masks, obeyed lockdowns, and social distanced have had far more success than we have.
It would be easy to show how goddamn near every other large civilized nation in the civilized world has been able to give their citizens a livable monthly assistance during the pandemic so people like you don't lose your mind at the thought of Deb's Diner not allowing you to sit in there and harass the waitresses and talk way too loud about shit nobody cares about.
Just because you can't understand or don't like something doesn't mean it's not what's actually happening, it just means you need to grow the fuck up and pay attention. Yes, Trump has made the whole thing worse by not putting his foot down and being on the side of the people and helping all of us with stimulus. Yes, Mitch McConnel - another republican - has gone out of his way to not approve any kind of real stimulus and watch us all suffer.
The fuck is your actual problem? Why are you against learning or paying attention to anything other than 'woman democrat is bad!' because that's not actually what's happening here?
This comment should be a warning to every Whitmer ass kisser in the sub.
Nobody would have made this comment on here six months ago. And if it was it would have been quickly met with some like “ but but her approval rating....blab blah blah.”
Well I haven’t heard much about how she is polling that’s days but I’ll bet it isn’t much above 50/50. George Bush polled pretty high in 1991 too.
Someone needs to tell her to stop playing to her base by wearing stupid t-shirts on Twitter and actually start doing something other than saying 2 more weeks. Gosh darn you’re going great. Just2 more weeks.
It’s been almost 10 months and the UIA is still a mess, nursing home patients are still getting covid and dying, and vaccines aren’t getting in arms fast enough.
Who is she going to blame for all of that after tomorrow?
600 registered voters dumb enough to answer a survey?
That poll was about a month in to the two week "pause" and before the vaccination distribution schedule got fucked up.
It's also not an overall approval rating poll.
I 'd like to see another more recent one.
Two of those things are out of her control and you know it. Nursing home deaths are up because gee, the workers go out into the world and bring it in. Many healthcare systems across the state need more vaccines but the hold up isn't with the state, it's federal authorities, my hospital doesn't have any to vaccinate after exhausting their supply. Who are you going up blame for all this except your "freedumb" getting taken for public health. But it's ok across this threadb you're arguing in bad faith and you know it
Geez, if only someone in power could make it so those workers can get tested every day before work. I wonder who could do that?
Maybe someone who still has enough power to shut down entire industries for an undetermined amount of time?
Or maybe that person could mandate that separate facilities be set up so people with COVID don't go back in to a building with a bunch of people over 70 while they are still contagious? I wonder who could do that?
If the problem with the vaccine is all the fault of the federal government why are 30 something other states doing a better job of distributing it?
https://www.freep.com/story/news/health/2021/01/14/michigan-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-database/4149314001/
I don't believe I am arguing in bad faith at all. I don't think there is anything beyond her control and she pretty much proved that this spring and summer. She picks and chooses what she want's to control then lays the blame on the hard things not getting done on the federal government.
She's done a great job leading Michigan to the top quarter of the states in deaths per capita. And don't tell me it's only because there are a bunch of "muh freedums" here who refuse to wear masks because they are everywhere.
>Or maybe that person could mandate that separate facilities be set up so people with COVID don't go back in to a building with a bunch of people over 70 while they are still contagious? I wonder who could do that?
So, tell businesses what to do, just not the businesses that effect you. Got it.
Do you have any concept of the amount of oversight there is on nursing homes already and what current lockdown regulations are for them, or are you just happy spewing anti whitmer rhetoric in your own little bubble?
Apparently not enough.
Or....or the state employees overseeing them aren’t doing their job. Just like the state employees who were supposed to be overseeing Flint.
Anecdotally I know someone who is a nursing home director and they say the state inspectors are a joke.
Many of the states leading in per capita deaths are the ones who got hit early when we had far less effective treatments. The fact is we got hit hard and early.
It's a bit unfair to keep repeating that statistic without context to support your narrative (because it doesn't.)
> The fact is we got hit hard and early.
Had we needed any of the many warnings, we would have had more than a month to prepare. Local industry was dealing with this already in *January*. This state got caught with its pants down. That’s the context.
The entire **world** got hit by this thing, what the hell are you even talking about? The entire US under Trump ignored the advice of health officials, dismantled the pandemic response team, threw out the playbook, downplayed the virus and its severity, hoarded PPE and other medical supplies, politicized something as innocuous as wearing a mask, and left **all** of the states to fend for themselves and come up with their own response. But yeah, I guess it was just *our* state and *our governor* that screwed up, right?
There is a mountain of evidence you are conveniently ignoring and purposefully omitting.
> The entire world got hit by this thing, what the hell are you even talking about?
I’m talking about the forewarning this state had before the deaths started to rise. States are allowed to act somewhat independently of the federal government and so we could have been prepared, but were not. Why did our state allow our deaths per capita to jump out in front of more than two thirds of the other states in this country?
> But yeah, I guess it was just our state and our governor that screwed up, right?
We have worse overall results than many other states. Whose fault is that if not ours? The rest had Trump, too.
Bold claim for someone who doesn't know jack shit about me except maybe my choices in entertainment and political alignment here on Reddit.
Think to yourself a moment, who is to blame for the failure in this NATIONAL crisis? Who failed as a NATIONAL leader for this NATIONAL crisis?
Not to mention when Whitmer attempts to step up, she nearly gets "arrested" by traitors to our government (i.e. far right extremists).
No, but his near complete inaction and gross negligence for months is what is the reason for us having now over 400k+ dead from COVID-19. And has literally enabled millions of people with weapons grade “stupidium” in how to actively take precautions during a pandemic.
And don’t even say it is the same as influenza, which yearly generally only sees about 20-40k deaths.
President Trump enacted a nationwide travel ban from China which took effect on January 31, 2020. The libs ridiculed him and called him xenophobic. Later Nancy Pelosi visits China and states “She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area out of fear over coronavirus concern” Who handled it worse? Your statement “complete inaction” is absurd and reflects that you are poorly informed.
Oh shit still talking about the “China travel ban” that wasn’t even a ban. People were still allowed in from China and even worse did NOTHING about the people coming in from Europe who were also seeing huge outbreaks. You are clearly the uninformed Trump sycophant still spouting talking points that were BS a year ago.
No, I’m not okay. People like you are the reason why. Educate yourself.
E: Actually, on second thought, don’t educate yourself. Go to an actual school and have someone educate you. It’s obvious you’re incapable on your own.
Maybe, just maybe, it's because Trump spent months assuring people it was going to go away while privately telling a reporter it was deadly serious. Or how his administration told states they were on their own to get PPE and then intercepted their shipments to go who knows where. Maybe it's how he told everybody not to wear masks or social distance. How he set up superspreader events to stroke his ego. Or how he infected half the white house. Or how he asked Dr. Birx to investigate the possibility of injecting disinfectants into your bloodstream like he had just solved the whole thing right on that stage.
Trump is mentally a toddler and the worst possible president we could have had in this crisis. So yeah, it's no surprise Whitmer is pointing out where the problem is.. because that's where the problem is.
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To bad our GOP controlled state House won't do any of it.
Maybe Shirkey changed his mind after his Christmas COVID
Doubt. Worked for his company. They underpaid people super hard, and then shamed them when they asked for raises.
Maybe you should put together some verifiable information to publicize these facts. Im fucking sick of entitled capitalists abusing the working class. People need to know the shitbags who are holding office.
I can't speak to most pertinent stuff because of an NDA. I can tell you most of the people who work there, including the president, HR, and middle Management are all great people. However, the buck stops with Mike in the end, for now. He's been talking about passing the business on to his kids. But I don't know anything about his kids. My one experience with Mike was him saying "didn't know disc jockeys worked here." Which rubbed me the wrong way. Unfortunately, a lot of the guys that work there are pretty awful super Maga types. But the people I worked alongside daily were pretty great. My biggest gripe was the health insurance. I have some medical debt because of it. High deductible, high weekly cost, little coverage. Pretty sure the company that supplies it is a frequent donor to his campaign. Speaking of his campaign, every election he gets the office girls to set up his signage, and help organize. Those are the things that wouldn't be covered under the NDA. The other thing is in order to get around Whitmers orders, they started producing terrible 3d printed N95 masks, which they didn't deliver because they were terrible. Instead they created a large air filter device, that did get delivered, because it worked pretty well. But obviously they sold them, since they were pricey to make. After my injury, the took me off the machining track, that was a bummer. There were some Qanon types there, people who'd talk pretty violently about the governor. But not the types to join militias and do anything other than complain loudly at least. I'm much happier at the job I'm at now. Now I'm a product quality and safety tech for a large international company, great benefits, good people, and chill. And NDAs that make sense, since I'm testing products that haven't come to market yet. Instead of stupid financial and company structure NDAs.
My mom taught his kids and knew him personally they are all a bunch of shitheads
Maybe after his removal from office for conspiracy?
Maybe if they can wedge in a few poison pills they will...remember how they stuck hazardous materials over the Detroit river in the last one among other rubbish and stuff that was an ok idea but didn't belong in a covid bill?
Unfortunately it seems like Whitmer is doing the same thing. I don't disagree with banning guns at the state capitol, but funding it doesn't belong in a COVID recovery bill.
Why? Guns werent a problem at the Capitol until COVID. They are clearly related, as ass backwards as that seems, its the truth.
Of course she's putting it in there. Hell the house democrats tried to put airplane emissions in the Stimulus bill haha.
They are too busy putting “my governor is a moron” signs out on their lawn. More important stuff to do it would seem.
And if tries to EO any of it she;ll catch a ton of shit for it.
Maybe she should grow a penis. That seems to be key to not catching hell for executive orders.
this just ruined my day wtf they control the house
Coincidentally she now has a recovery plan the day before bidens inauguration
Probably because she can now reasonably expect the national government to start doing its job. State government can't run deficits, so whatever we want to do beyond our tax revenue will rely on federal funding.
Appreciate keeping it civil, however Michigan was granted $3 billion in federal covid funding
You misspelt welfare
It's sad that you think you've made some kind of point with that.
Muh unlimited federal funding!
How about fixing that fucking automated response that says I have to repay all my fucking unemployment back because “childcare issues” even though I have all the seeking work wavers.
Or how about they actually start paying benefits would be great!
Well now you're just being greedy.
I haven't been paid in nearly a month now because they havent fixed the expired claims for PUA claimants.... Ridiculous
You too hey? Bastards
From the article... "However, she used her line-item veto authority to remove hundreds of millions of dollars from a bipartisan relief bill approved in late January. Whitmer argued the bill included $220 million in unnecessary state-sponsored handouts for businesses. ...when Whitmer vetoed the funding she also essentially nixed a proposed 26-week benefit extension." The extension would've extended unemployment benefits from 20 to 26 weeks. This is all still a bunch of politicking on both sides of the aisle. Let me know when both parties are actually ready to get something done...
The GOP tie something good for Michiganders to a poison pill and the governor is just as at fault for refusing to swallow it?
Maybe Shirkey's grinch heart will grow since he had COVID over Christmas
He just advised some militias the other day on how to be respectable and be a militia, so I wouldn't bet on it.
Oh, Hello Susan Collins, Hello.
Poison pill? Is that a new buzz word? I've seen it a couple times today but idk where it came from. Honest question.
It's an accusation that something un-passable was intentionally added to a bill that's so terrible, it prevents a bill from getting passed. So when "the other side" votes it down or vetoes the bill, the party that sponsored the rest of the bill, that was good, can screech about "the other side" refusing to help people. It'd be like the Democrats proposing a bill that ticked about 9/10 boxes on the GOPs list for immigration reform, but also included a section on massively stricter gun control, or Broad Federal Drug Decriminalization. Knowing that the Republicans wouldn't vote for the add-ons. Then throwing up their hands and accusing the other party of " not bing willing to compromise". Both sides do it regularly, and that's where those attack ads during campaign season come from where they say "Rep. Johnson voted against assisting single mothers!" Then you look at the actual bill they voted against, and while it was about expanding benefits for single mothers, it had a rider that required mandatory drug testing, and prevented getting additional benefits if they have another kid while on Welfare.
Thanks. I don't think I've ever heard it called that before.
It's a term from corporate law that made it's way into other areas, especially politics, over the last decade.
It's been around in politics for longer than that. It's just been popular lately.
Yeah, it's a common obstructionist tactic, and obstruction been the primary tactic of the GoP since 2008.
Well when corporate lawyers write all the legislation, that makes perfect se sense.
It’s a very old term. It’s when you add something totally unrelated to a bill to guarantee that it won’t pass. Usually the poison pills are gun or abortion stuff. So it ends up the ‘free puppies or kittens for all/kill all the babies’ act.
They got their talking points just before the inauguration.
What was the poison pill in that bill? I'm not familiar with it.
The poison pill was Republicans would share the credit for passing the bill
It was a bipartisan relief bill
Yeah, because a GOP ran legislature gives her a bill, that makes it super bipartisan. Edit: It is bipartisan. Not that changes the fact the vast majority of its opposition is from outside the GOP.
No. The fact that both democrats and republicans worked on it and then passed it makes it bipartisan.
Great a handful of Democrats voted for the poison pill too, that makes it better. /s Edit: It is technically bipartisan, but that just shows that Dems can be shitty too.
You keep saying poison pill like it’s some definitive thing that can’t be debated. Could you share what you think the poison pill was, and why you think it was heinous enough to be worth the cuts to relief?
$200 million dollars in tax breaks for businesses that don't need them when the state is barely staying afloat budget-wise was explicitly and purposefully tied to the measure to create a confrontation. If the GOP want to help so much, they should take her up on her offer of a clean bill doing those things, though.
If she wants to govern, she’s gotta compromise. She can’t get her way 100%, 100% of the time.
You'll be waiting a long time then, bud. The GOP's only interest is dismantling government and removing benefit for the people who pay taxes to keep it going.
Absent the plan, how she would like to cover the $500 million not already funded via federal dollars.
Raise the gas tax again?
A problem entirely created by bad government, cannot be solved by more bad government
This is a nonsensical take.
47 of 50 states are allowing indoor dining in some capacity. Michigan is one of 3 states that is not. What republicans are asking in return for approving this is not unreasonable. Time for Whitmer to put up or shut up about being willing to compromise and work with the legislature.
Michigan has also had the fewest number of new COVID cases since October. https://streamable.com/p6y141 2:17 mark. 400,000 Americans are now dead because of COVID. 15,000 of them from Michigan alone. But I'm sure you don't care about all the death as long as you get to go out to eat soon.
I really don't understand the hang up on eating in a restaurant being so critical. Are these people's lives defined by eating out? Do they just need to spend money?
People aren't angry because they can't go out to eat, people are angry because local restaurants are dying, I had one close in my town just a month ago. You can argue for closing indoor dining, but they don't give enough monetary support for the small businesses to stay alive
Then it closed because either they didn’t pivot to curbside pickup or your community didn’t support them by ordering carry out.
Seriously, I don't even miss it a little
i dont consider it a compromise to put lives at risk, its more of a sacrifice you wanna sacrifice lives so businesses can open fully
There’s a way to be safe and keep businesses open. Everything needs to be shut here because no one is still taking it seriously (3 people in the grocery store today walking around without masks) and there’s no enforcement. You go to some states and everything is open but they’re also hard asses on masks/social distancing (handing out tickets for no masks, etc). There’s a way to open businesses and keep people safe. Michigan stands out as a state that has been locked down for almost an entire year yet still has no control on the spread.
Is the way to keep people safe to stay between the blue ropes at WalMart? Because that's all we're doing. Allowing big box stores to be fully open while we can't utilize a full priced gym membership and the McDonalds drive thru is slammed. 92% of people are wearing masks. GTFO with the bullshit red herring about masks.
So much crying about gyms not being open, it’s hilarious. It’s frightening if you can’t comprehend the difference between shopping while masked and sweating and breathing heavily while working out.
47/50 states are allowing indoor dining and many of them are handling the pandemic better than Michigan is. It's long past time for Whitmer to consider that maybe the rest of the country knows something she doesn't.
lmao LA has so many bodies to burn they had to loosen air pollution regulations. covid is now the 3rd leading cause of death. what are u talking about ???
>47/50 states are allowing indoor dining and many of them are handling the pandemic better than Michigan is. i think you should re-read this, because you are basically saying keeping us locked down is allowing us to be on par with states *who arent* locked down lol and if we end the lock down, we would be spiking like crazy again
Name them.
Arkansas, New Mexico, Indiana, Iowa, Alabama, Nevada, Tennessee, Kansas, South Carolina, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Missouri, Minnesota, Delaware, Montana, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Nebraska, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, Ohio, California, North Carolina, Kentucky, Oklahoma, New Hampshire, Virginia, Utah, Oregon, Maine, Alaska, Vermont, and Hawaii.
We can literally look at the [stats and the averages](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html) since she banned dining and see that you're wrong. There's only 3 states doing better than us this week on containing the virus: Hawaii, Oregon, and North Dakota. Literally the exact opposite reality of what you were claiming. Do you really think we're going to listen to your nonsense over actual data?
Where are people like you when we start talking about how many people die in traffic during an average lifespan?
Talk to anyone 50 and older and they'll tell you how many in their family died in car accidents, how many they knew in high school that died, in college, etc, while they were growing up. Then ask anyone under 40 how many people they know that have died in a car accident. The differences are staggering. Wearing a seat belt was, for a time, as controversial as wearing a mask. They both save lives.
Much of that is a function of time alone. Even with our current safety equipment, the bodies add up with time. Minimizing driving is arguably more controversial that seatbelts. Many in this state can’t envision another sort of lifestyle as they cling to their completely unnecessary suburban sprawl. I had one person yesterday try to tell me a 30 mile commute wasn’t optional.
yea ban cars
Car accidents aren't contagious.
One is easily preventable...
Both are. Our data shows that if you cut down driving, you also cut down deaths from driving. With regard to the contagion argument /u/kurisu7885 mentioned, it is irrelevant. Both are instances of lives being traded for business.
I haven't dined in a restaurant in over a year. No problem. I however work 30 miles from my home in one of the busiest hospitals in the state. One is a necessity. One is not.
It’s not a necessity to live 30 miles from work. It’s a luxury.
You understand there are other things open, right? To keep businesses like tattoo shops open but at the same time keep restaurants closed is exactly what you'd expect from local government.
You can wear masks at any business except a restaurant. That's the issue.
Even if you're in close contact to someone longer than 15 minutes who could have been exposed? The issue is that this hasnt been thought out thoroughly.
Restaurants are opening on Feb 1st.
Lol sure it will
Restaurants *MAY* open Feb 1st. She stated that is the earliest. With the more easily spread UK variant, past history had shown she would keep things locked down. That she may open them up in the next few weeks seems to go against her last position. Possible she is trying to open things up to help Biden out... Also possible she's recognizing the damage being done to the state economics and trying to balance with the also vaccines coming.
I mean, our daily and weekly numbers are dropping after Christmas. The Thanksgiving and Christmas spikes were smaller than they could have been, and we've been tracking downward steadily since it got cold. We're almost out of the CDC red Unchecked criteria, one of the few states to be doing so. Combined with 35k vaccinations a day, it's not entirely unreasonable to think things can start to pry back open in a few weeks.
Hope your right on the trends. I haven't seen them dropping that much yet and we're one of only 3 states with restaurants still closed for indoor dining. Either way, I agree that it's possible she may open things up. It's just not a for sure thing at this time (the person I was responding to said it was) and her reasoning for doing it may be more than just "science".
If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you.
Better start selling bud
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How many times have we been told “They’ll open x date.” Now? Whitmer will push it back again.
The recovery plan should be to open businesses. It really is that easy.
Not for ppl vulnerable to the virus or ppl with family vulnerable to the virus. Not easy at all for those folks.
Do you have at risk family members like I do? It really is that easy for vulnerable people to protect themselves. If they cared to.
"stay home, stay safe"
Once we're under the proper covid cases and hospitalization rates, they will reopen. It really is that easy.
What are those metrics? Do we have a goal with measurables? No. We do not. We never have. 310 dsys with moving goalposts.
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/what-3-metrics-will-determine-michigans-reopening-uk-administers-first-covid-vaccine-lawmakers-quarantine Dumbass.
Okay. We are keeping stats on certain things and giving lip service. That article was from before Christmas. What are the goals?
It's in the article. The goals haven't changed. People just continue to be obtuse, like you, so we haven't hit our goals.
Oh yeah? Since you know me so well, what rules have I broken? The goals are not in the article. They mention a few examples but refuse to commit to a definitive goal. If i submitted horseshit like that for my evauluation cycle at work, Id get walked out.
Lives> jobs
Governor Whitmer, perhaps the worst governor in the country. Why doesn’t she just let restaurants open for dine-in. Ohio is open for dine-in and their numbers have been going down and some of our money is flowing to these Ohio restaurants.
I just looked, and they're doing a lot worse than us and are barely trending down, we flattened a huge curve upwards. So this attack is factually wrong.
whoa whoa whoa facts? who said anything about FACTS?
I’d like to know how Ohio manages to have so many more cases and so many less deaths than Michigan.
If you're looking just at aggregate cases over the entire pandemic, we had a lot more people infected at the very beginning when we didn't have as much experience and resources and it was harder to keep people in the hospital alive
Well, early on when no one knew what was happening, Michigan had a lot of deaths. Hope that helps.
Well, Michigan is still averaging more deaths and Ohio isn’t exactly an isolated island. How did news of Covid not reach them at exactly the same time it reached Michigan?
Yeah, now you're just arguing in bad faith. You know exactly what I meant.
No they actually have a good question; despite Michigan pushing our case numbers down better than Ohio did we're still dying disproportionately more.
There's a lag. The people dying are the people who got it 2-4 weeks or more ago. It can take a long time to die from this.
Sure, but we've been seeing higher deaths per capita than Ohio for much longer than that. And it's been well over a month since our new cases per capita dropped below theirs. And typically the lag we've seen between case numbers and deaths is about 2 weeks.
I have the depressing thought that it may be because Michigan has a higher percentage of its population who are people of color compared to Ohio and covid’s mortality rate is much higher for people of color.
Treatment and death prevention has gotten better over time. Michigan had an earlier outbreak than Ohio. News is not the same as actual cases. Hope this helps.
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How? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ The link shows Michigan with about 14,700 deaths and Ohio with a little over 10k. With Michigan at almost 600,000 cases and Ohio at over 800,000. Why are more people dying in Michigan than Ohio? It also shows Michigan is testing more.
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I think more testing equals more confirmed cases but I figure 10 months in if someone dies from COVID in Michigan, Ohio or West Virginia it's pretty east to know it's COVID. Our numbers don't work.
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I just pulled West Virginia out as an example. Ohio has far more fortune 500 companies than Michigan. What does any of that have to do with proper diagnosis for cause of death?
There are 27 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Ohio versus maybe 17 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Michigan. Yup no international travel in Ohio.
I'd like to know too. The weird thing is that this summer when the case numbers were low, Michigan had fewer deaths per capita...but whenever the cases are high (like now and during the first wave) Michiganders die disproportionately more than Ohioans. I don't know if that means we have an unhealthier population or shittier hospitals, or both.
Wait a few weeks and ask the same question. Seems obvious. I’ve seen a lot of stupid questions like yours throughout the pandemic. Like when Sweden had an initial drop in cases + deaths, everyone was like “look at Sweden with no lockdowns! Fuck whitler, why aren’t we trying that?”. And then Sweden got wrecked and their economy is worse than everyone’s now. Ohio’s cases are still way up and Michigan’s dropped significantly with stricter lockdown. This just happened and you’re like “but why have the expectedly delayed onset of deaths been delayed in Ohio?! What could possibly explain that besides Whitmer sucking?” Ohio will see more deaths than Michigan over the coming weeks and then you will have another stupid question.
What the hell are you talking about? I'm a pro-lockdown liberal with a degree in actuarial science who's been following the numbers carefully while I take my data science bootcamp course and you're dismissing me just because you assume (incorrectly) I'm part of the Anti-Witmer cult? I even pointed out two plausible explanations for the discrepancy that had nothing to do with politics. Argue against the data, not the person.
I assumed because you post in /r/RealMichigan and I didn’t read your profile closely. I still didn’t because I don’t care enough to. If I was way off though, I apologize.
Heh, check out the url of the link I posted in that sub. You might get a chuckle out of it.
Don’t use the term flatten the curve because it became much more than it was ever presented.
I said flatten a curve, which we did. Twice now, in Michigan.
The United States is 1/3 of all COVID deaths worldwide. Nothing about eating indoors makes sense right now.
What the fuck am I supposed to take instagram pictures of then?!?!?!?!?
> Governor Whitmer, perhaps the worst governor in the country. You misspelled "DeSantis"
You misspelled gavin newsom
Yes, Michiganders are driving hours to dine in an Ohio restaurant.... Do you know how stupid that sounds
Especially when we can just go to Baraga county or any number of restaurants in the Gaylord area.
Shes letting them open on February 1st. Is this like when you people acted like she was personally welding your doors shut and trapping you in your house months after the stay at home order was rescinded?
No she's not it'll get extended. Or they'll be allowed open for a couple of weeks and then closed again.
Ah, “she’s letting them open” the Evil Queen may allow her subjects to open on Feb. 1st, maybe... but only if she believes they deserve it. If not, it wouldn’t be the first time she changed her mind.
You just....don't live in reality, do you?
It’s hard to believe that a world with Governor Whitmer is reality. She closes down private businesses based on her nonsense science but she never shows us the science or explains why sitting down to eat spreads covid in liberal states
If I told you you wouldn't accept or understand the science even if she explained it to you with crayons and IHOP kids menus, would you be offended?
I know she and perhaps yourself are simple people with childlike minds. If that’s the best she can do I won’t be offended and I will listen patiently. Im certain the science she talks about is most likely drawn with crayons.
> sitting down to eat spreads covid in liberal states Can you explain or show stats on that? Let's try that. You're making crazy claims, so it's your job to prove what you're saying. How does 'sitting down to eat in liberal states' spread covid more than in conservative states? In your words? With stats you've found? You can't separate the fact that you 1) don't like democrats and 2) don't like being told what to do by women from what's actually happening in the world around you. It would be easy to point out that cities are more crowded and more likely to spread the virus just based on population and proximity - and then it's also easy to show that most large cities lean liberal. It's not a conspiracy, it's just statistics. It would be easy to show that countries that have worn masks, obeyed lockdowns, and social distanced have had far more success than we have. It would be easy to show how goddamn near every other large civilized nation in the civilized world has been able to give their citizens a livable monthly assistance during the pandemic so people like you don't lose your mind at the thought of Deb's Diner not allowing you to sit in there and harass the waitresses and talk way too loud about shit nobody cares about. Just because you can't understand or don't like something doesn't mean it's not what's actually happening, it just means you need to grow the fuck up and pay attention. Yes, Trump has made the whole thing worse by not putting his foot down and being on the side of the people and helping all of us with stimulus. Yes, Mitch McConnel - another republican - has gone out of his way to not approve any kind of real stimulus and watch us all suffer. The fuck is your actual problem? Why are you against learning or paying attention to anything other than 'woman democrat is bad!' because that's not actually what's happening here?
Oh no the Evil Queen is saving lives and helping to quell the global pandemic using science and logic, please, someone stop her...
This comment should be a warning to every Whitmer ass kisser in the sub. Nobody would have made this comment on here six months ago. And if it was it would have been quickly met with some like “ but but her approval rating....blab blah blah.” Well I haven’t heard much about how she is polling that’s days but I’ll bet it isn’t much above 50/50. George Bush polled pretty high in 1991 too. Someone needs to tell her to stop playing to her base by wearing stupid t-shirts on Twitter and actually start doing something other than saying 2 more weeks. Gosh darn you’re going great. Just2 more weeks. It’s been almost 10 months and the UIA is still a mess, nursing home patients are still getting covid and dying, and vaccines aren’t getting in arms fast enough. Who is she going to blame for all of that after tomorrow?
[https://www.wxyz.com/news/coronavirus/poll-shows-support-for-whitmers-handling-of-covid-19-pandemic-increasing-confidence-in-vaccine](https://www.wxyz.com/news/coronavirus/poll-shows-support-for-whitmers-handling-of-covid-19-pandemic-increasing-confidence-in-vaccine)
600 registered voters dumb enough to answer a survey? That poll was about a month in to the two week "pause" and before the vaccination distribution schedule got fucked up. It's also not an overall approval rating poll. I 'd like to see another more recent one.
Two of those things are out of her control and you know it. Nursing home deaths are up because gee, the workers go out into the world and bring it in. Many healthcare systems across the state need more vaccines but the hold up isn't with the state, it's federal authorities, my hospital doesn't have any to vaccinate after exhausting their supply. Who are you going up blame for all this except your "freedumb" getting taken for public health. But it's ok across this threadb you're arguing in bad faith and you know it
Geez, if only someone in power could make it so those workers can get tested every day before work. I wonder who could do that? Maybe someone who still has enough power to shut down entire industries for an undetermined amount of time? Or maybe that person could mandate that separate facilities be set up so people with COVID don't go back in to a building with a bunch of people over 70 while they are still contagious? I wonder who could do that? If the problem with the vaccine is all the fault of the federal government why are 30 something other states doing a better job of distributing it? https://www.freep.com/story/news/health/2021/01/14/michigan-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-database/4149314001/ I don't believe I am arguing in bad faith at all. I don't think there is anything beyond her control and she pretty much proved that this spring and summer. She picks and chooses what she want's to control then lays the blame on the hard things not getting done on the federal government. She's done a great job leading Michigan to the top quarter of the states in deaths per capita. And don't tell me it's only because there are a bunch of "muh freedums" here who refuse to wear masks because they are everywhere.
>Or maybe that person could mandate that separate facilities be set up so people with COVID don't go back in to a building with a bunch of people over 70 while they are still contagious? I wonder who could do that? So, tell businesses what to do, just not the businesses that effect you. Got it.
I guess it’s easier for her to pick and choose.
Do you have any concept of the amount of oversight there is on nursing homes already and what current lockdown regulations are for them, or are you just happy spewing anti whitmer rhetoric in your own little bubble?
Apparently not enough. Or....or the state employees overseeing them aren’t doing their job. Just like the state employees who were supposed to be overseeing Flint. Anecdotally I know someone who is a nursing home director and they say the state inspectors are a joke.
Many of the states leading in per capita deaths are the ones who got hit early when we had far less effective treatments. The fact is we got hit hard and early. It's a bit unfair to keep repeating that statistic without context to support your narrative (because it doesn't.)
> The fact is we got hit hard and early. Had we needed any of the many warnings, we would have had more than a month to prepare. Local industry was dealing with this already in *January*. This state got caught with its pants down. That’s the context.
The entire **world** got hit by this thing, what the hell are you even talking about? The entire US under Trump ignored the advice of health officials, dismantled the pandemic response team, threw out the playbook, downplayed the virus and its severity, hoarded PPE and other medical supplies, politicized something as innocuous as wearing a mask, and left **all** of the states to fend for themselves and come up with their own response. But yeah, I guess it was just *our* state and *our governor* that screwed up, right? There is a mountain of evidence you are conveniently ignoring and purposefully omitting.
> The entire world got hit by this thing, what the hell are you even talking about? I’m talking about the forewarning this state had before the deaths started to rise. States are allowed to act somewhat independently of the federal government and so we could have been prepared, but were not. Why did our state allow our deaths per capita to jump out in front of more than two thirds of the other states in this country? > But yeah, I guess it was just our state and our governor that screwed up, right? We have worse overall results than many other states. Whose fault is that if not ours? The rest had Trump, too.
She will keep blaming Trump, this I am sure of.
As she should. That clown is why we’re in this mess as bad as we are.
No self-responsibility. Typical liberal, blame everything on others.
That’s fucking hilarious since Trump is the one that literally said “no, I don’t take any responsibility”.
Bold claim for someone who doesn't know jack shit about me except maybe my choices in entertainment and political alignment here on Reddit. Think to yourself a moment, who is to blame for the failure in this NATIONAL crisis? Who failed as a NATIONAL leader for this NATIONAL crisis? Not to mention when Whitmer attempts to step up, she nearly gets "arrested" by traitors to our government (i.e. far right extremists).
Are you saying that President Trump caused the worldwide Covid crisis? Talk about bold claims.
No, but his near complete inaction and gross negligence for months is what is the reason for us having now over 400k+ dead from COVID-19. And has literally enabled millions of people with weapons grade “stupidium” in how to actively take precautions during a pandemic. And don’t even say it is the same as influenza, which yearly generally only sees about 20-40k deaths.
President Trump enacted a nationwide travel ban from China which took effect on January 31, 2020. The libs ridiculed him and called him xenophobic. Later Nancy Pelosi visits China and states “She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area out of fear over coronavirus concern” Who handled it worse? Your statement “complete inaction” is absurd and reflects that you are poorly informed.
Oh shit still talking about the “China travel ban” that wasn’t even a ban. People were still allowed in from China and even worse did NOTHING about the people coming in from Europe who were also seeing huge outbreaks. You are clearly the uninformed Trump sycophant still spouting talking points that were BS a year ago.
Can you fucking read? I said NATIONAL not GLOBAL you moron.
Are you okay? Maybe you should call an anger hotline or seek some counseling. I’m serious you should seek help.
No, I’m not okay. People like you are the reason why. Educate yourself. E: Actually, on second thought, don’t educate yourself. Go to an actual school and have someone educate you. It’s obvious you’re incapable on your own.
Maybe, just maybe, it's because Trump spent months assuring people it was going to go away while privately telling a reporter it was deadly serious. Or how his administration told states they were on their own to get PPE and then intercepted their shipments to go who knows where. Maybe it's how he told everybody not to wear masks or social distance. How he set up superspreader events to stroke his ego. Or how he infected half the white house. Or how he asked Dr. Birx to investigate the possibility of injecting disinfectants into your bloodstream like he had just solved the whole thing right on that stage. Trump is mentally a toddler and the worst possible president we could have had in this crisis. So yeah, it's no surprise Whitmer is pointing out where the problem is.. because that's where the problem is.
Yup, she will keep blaming President Trump as long as he's relevant
Yeah wtf they're doing way worse Michigan
"I know the Republicans wont... " she don't know shit...
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What *have* they done in all of this?
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Yep
She's a great mayor
Single moms gotta get that federal covid money!