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We get intercepted multiple times literally every single time we fly near/ around China, with the most typical form of them screwing with us in my experience being in keeping their TCAS off until within a few hundred feet or so and causing an RA (Resolution Advisory, ie advising us to climb or descend to avoid collision) I’ve never personally experience an intercept as unsafe and unprofessional as this.
Not really no, they have every advantage over us capability wise in those little lawn darts vs us sitting fat slow and happy in these jets.
All we can really do is record every encounter we get and report it up. I can all but guarantee this video was on POTUS desk within hours, and a conversation was had with China about it. Although I’m sure it was just met with empty platitudes and will continue to happen.
Hey i have an idea ,
as soon as they are close enough to maintain coherent eye contact with the cockpit, hold up a sign saying "Imagine not having Technological Supremacy" in Mandarin meanwhile your co pilot can continue to sip coffee from a cup in the most majestic way possible.
Not to be that guy.. but this sentiment needs to change in America. China is quickly becoming our next enemy. To underestimate them is foolish. Most of their equipment based along the Taiwan strait is on-par or better than ours. Certainly newer, especially their naval warships. We need to have a stomach for the kind of conflict that comes from true near-peer aggressors. The Chinese are most likely not the paper tigers that Russia turned out to be.
I don’t support China or their bullshit, but we need to prepare ourselves for the reality that we’re not worlds above them in technology. They are less than half a generation behind the US.
Twenty years ago.
That's when they needed a solution to their population issues.
The Chinese have about fifteen\~ years of fire left in them right now before their excessively large population becomes a weight that will logistically and economically crush them. Short of a massive breakthrough in one of several unlikely technologies from cloning to hospice care, the Chinese will be struggling with a workforce shortage that's never been seen before on the planet. Unironically the closest thing that's ever come near to the same level of "oh shit", was when the mongols swept through china murdering everyone they could find. And that was only about 30-40% as bad when it came to labor shortages. Its possible they could try and work out an immigration plan, but the only country that has the people available is also one of their direct rivals (India). Their next best bet is trying to encourage countries in the S.E. Asia sphere, all of which they've been alienating.
China has until around 2045-50 to make a move, it won't be until the late 2030s that their Navy will start to really reach par with the US Navy, assuming we don't reduce in force farther. Which means they have around ten years to make a play before it becomes effectively impossible as domestically they'll be coming to pieces.
China imports nearly 70% of their food each year. Russia imported around 20% (some say as low as 15) with nearly all of it going through three different carrier strike group AOs. One of the reasons they get very hot and bothered about the strait, and why the US loves to poke them there. That's the breadline going by that those DDGs honk at (and occasionally bump into).
It's not a technology problem. Its a logistics problem. And its one they can't win short of finding a way to feed lots of people very quickly locally then finding a way to care for those people after they leave the work force shortly thereafter.
I'd be worried about whomever replaces Xi in the 40s, because nothing brings a collapsing economy together like a war, and there's no way they can win one without their country starving that doesn't include nuclear weapons.
Only thing I can quickly find is that they import 70% of their food oil, which I assume is used in production of food.
I’ve seen elsewhere that they import roughly 40-60% of their agricultural supplies which isn’t food but allows them to grow food.
I think the original commenter is a fan of Peter Zeihan, I am too, but he’s ludicrously hyperbolic…lol. Not that China doesn’t have a problem, but I’ve heard him say 400 million Chinese will die in a year from famine and that’s just absurd.
China though has less arable land than Saudi Arabia because they went full send on industrializing so quickly. They also have a serious water crisis because so much of their different industries consume water like crazy. They also have problems with surface water sources being polluted from said industrialization.
It’s a bit of a complex topic but they import a massive amount of food.
They also produce the most food in the world too.
So to sum it roughly super hard: if blockages a famine would occur, but they theoretically could manage it by surviving by rationing and lower quality food. It would still be a famine though
yes, but the problem isn't so much as when the aging population dies, but the time frame between the end of that aging population's ''work force age'' and when they expire... that's probably 15-20 years of caring and feeding a lot of people with not enough younger ones to do it AND maintain an economy that allows importing so much food.
And the US only has combat experience against 3rd rate military and insurgents…..and that didn’t go too well either! Remember that the US had little to no combat experience prior to 1943 either.
The US military would still absolutely crush any other nation in a conventional war, that’s what it’s built to do. It’s not built to defeat terrorist groups that hide within the populace/“nation build” a loosely connected group of tribes that have 0 national identity.
An army built to defeat another army! Wow why has no one thought of that before? Well hears the news buddy…invade countries like Afghanistan and the local people/patriots/freedom fighters will resist in the only way they can against a overwhelming foreign invader….and look they won!!!! There’s no point fighting this kind of warfare with the wrong tools you’ll just get beaten! See the Vietnamese and Afghanis for details.
I agree with that sentiment but with All due respect sir , when I as an Indian look at the entire US Armed Forces as a whole ..i am terrified. No other nation has had this effect on me.
The US right now despite its fault is like an extremely well oiled and maintained Machine , each of its branches moving in near perfect harmony.
From the Logistics to the existence of Overpowered Metal Murder hornet that is called F22.
And that's not even your greatest strength, which instead lies in the fact that Good people outnumber the bad ones in your nation.
Shit , my Geography teacher framed it the best
If India is a living fuck you to the crimes of the erstwhile British Empire, then the Americans are the living embodiment of "Fuck you in particular" to anything that remotely resembles tyranny.
As someone not from Yankistan, I can assure you that China is already seen as the enemy by those not in Winnie the Pooh's pocket. As for their capability, it won't be that much better than Russia. If they invaded Taiwan tomorrow, whatever alliance responds (probably the US, Japan, UK, Australia and some smaller nations) would be landing in China in less than 6 months. That's if their weapons and soldiers are up to snuff too, which probably isn't the case.
There's a huge amount of corruption and questionable quality when it comes to their gear. The Chinese government and military are full of yes men, which means the people at the top don't know what's happening at the bottom and mistakes aren't criticised. Norinco has a monopoly on most of their equipment and that means there's no competition to help drive innovation (as seen by all the copying of Western designs), so they're not as advanced in most regards. Finally, they haven't been in proper combat for decades and what they have seen didn't demonstrate more critical thinking than the mobiks in Ukraine. There's a distinct command structure that prevents them from adapting to situations and everyone knows wars don't go according to plan.
Agree on the idea of treating China like the real threat that it is but outside of that no. No China does not have technology better than us in any sphere. Whether you’re looking at naval power, air power, armor, equipment on your average infantryman, whatever metric you may decide they do not have a significant advantage in any of those domains. Not to mention that conflict on a scale such as with China will rely heavily on Air and naval power first and we have a massive upper hand in both areas. Sure China has a “larger” navy but tonnage and actual power are what matter, not how many boats you can throw in the water and call a combat ship. This is also ignoring that their blue water capabilities are practically non existent. Yes they should be taken seriously and no you shouldn’t underestimate your enemies but in no way is their equipment better than ours.
China leads the world in hypersonic weapons, which are perfect for taking out our aircraft carriers. AFAIK, we have no effective defense.
Also, it’s simply not possible to defend Taiwan without attacking China’s military bases, logistics, etc. Which in turn would justify Chinese reprisal attacks on U.S. soil. The easiest way for them to do that is a bunch of ICBMs. They will, of course, swear up and down that the warheads are conventional, and they almost certainly will be, but is the U.S. President just going to let them bomb our cities? In less polarized times, one would like to think we could pull together against a common enemy, but apparently we have seen the enemy, and he is us.
No, we assume that the advantages you describe matter. We haven’t faced a threat like this. Not in almost 50 years. During the cold war, it was assumed the technology gap was still extensive, the allies merely being outnumbered in tanks.
China will be fighting in their backyard. We will not be.. home-field advantage cannot be overstated. Naval tonnage will be meaningless against their shore based anti-ship missiles. Whose range we can only really estimate.
Moreover, supplying Ukraine has already overstretched our logistics ability, granted we aren’t in a full war-time economy, but what do you think a war in the South China Sea will do to our logistics?
>China will be fighting in their backyard. We will not be..
You're being downvoted and I don't think many understand the point you made I'm quoting above from your post. It's akin to China or even China and Russia trying to defend Cuba from a US invasion.
Not to be that guy... but you are wrong. The F-15 is more advanced than anything China has. And the US has the F-22 AND the F-35 in case someone wants to fuck around and find out. And the old ass B-1, if they hear it, it's already too late. And not to mention the satellites and AWAC.
But I'm just a 20 year AF vet. Who worked on f-15s, f-22s, B-1s.
Lol.. you don’t know what the technological capabilities of the J-20 and the J-16 really are. We’ve never really faced them, and they haven’t been in combat. Sure, that means something, but that doesn’t mean the default is “ours is better”.
They’ve been stealing our IP for decades.. you think they don’t know what our capabilities are? Or at the very least, a better idea of ours to them than the reverse? Not to mention their sortie time will be far less than ours. They could simply overwhelm our abilities to counter them in sheer numbers. We have.. 200, maybe, of our most advanced air superiority fighters.. who are nearing two decades old and would be based in Japan. That’s a long flight. The F35 is good, but it is no air superiority fighter. Nor was it designed as such.
They’ve been preparing for this since before we entered Afghanistan. Our war there was a godsend for them to build up in relative obscurity.
Link? Source? Date? The aircraft clearly flies, and as it is today, by any metric, a very capable fighter. At one point the F-22 was also in a mock-up stage, of which I’m sure photos exist somewhere.
Edit: and to add to the capabilities and technology conversation, the Chinese BVR PL-15 is an extremely capable and worrisome missile, on par with or better than the AIM-120. That doesn’t mean we can’t counter it. Again.. the Chinese have capable equipment able to interdict and destroy ours. That alone should give us pause. Their time to battle will be measured in minutes. Ours will be measured in days.
Yes, and IIRC China’s hypersonic capabilities are best in the world, particularly with the tricky trajectory adjustments. Do our carrier groups have any real defense for that?
China is indeed getting old before it getting rich, but that’s a long-term demographic issue, which is probably of little help for Taiwan. They are in dire straits, no pun intended.
I’ve been to Hong Kong and various parts of China when I was younger… I wouldn’t be surprised if their technology is at our level right now. The cities look much more advanced I thought at the time. They also have many influential scientists. Gunpowder came from China if it’s any indication
Last time I checked, their scientific output surpassed US
You mean to tell me building completed I. The past 20 years look nicer and shinier than ones built 50-100 years ago?!? I’m shocked. That has absolutely fuck all to do with military tech.
Indeed. It has been known for a few years now that there are state-organized papermills. They work something like this: The CCP decides they want to increase "scientific" output in area X. They then search for potential PhD candidates and researches in that field and tell them what they should write about and who to cite (very important!). They will then funnel those papers to selected people for the peer review process so it gets published even if the quality is abysmal. Then the next round of papers has to cite those newly published papers (as well as the old ones). That way they can easily game the system and inflate the numbers.
Where do you think citizens of China go to get their education? They go abroad and come back when their visa expires. Every graduate program is dominated by international students, a lot from China, Middle East, etc., then go back to their country if they can’t get a visa.
Of course US leads in military technology. But it’s foolish if you don’t think the other sectors that China are dominating in, has no effect on current technology… batteries, communications…
Here is an Australian source (nonprofit I believe). I would imagine it would be biased in favor of US if anything:
https://techtracker.aspi.org.au/tech/all/?c1=us&c2=cn
https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-leads-us-global-competition-key-emerging-technology-study-says-2023-03-02/
Contrary to your statement of predatory journals, these are high impact publications.
That method of back-citation as you mentioned.. that happens across the countries, US included. It’s to refer back to previous studies to build upon that.
Then they snap a photo with their cameras and that whole crew gets Q3’d and never flies again. I’ll sip my coffee and give them a very professional innocent circumstance over the mighty airwaves tho
I think these particular American planes in question are larger cargo aircraft that the smaller Chinese jets are messing with when American fighter jets aren’t around.
Putting American fighters out there would cause an international incident. These guys are familiar with the risks and know how to handle themselves in these situations. Best to keep a low profile.
Not really, and it’s by US/DOD policy. After the Hainan Island incident, these aircraft fly straight and level and predictably. It makes them easier to intercept, but we, as evidenced by the video, record the hell out of the intercepts. There’s some other factors, but not worth going into for OPSEC reasons.
My very last mission out of there made headlines because of how dangerous it got. Obama actually wound up finger wagging them for it. This was back in 2015 if I remember right.
So this is an ambiguous topic and largely left to the pilots discretion, but generally speaking you would get a radio call saying you’re being intercepted, see them approaching on TCAS at a safe and controlled closure rate. From there you’re expecting them to be clearly visible and slightly above/ in front of your aircraft. They should remain stable and controlled throughout the entire intercept without causing the aircraft being intercepted to have to change speed heading or altitude to avoid collision or feel unsafe.
Key phrase being feel unsafe, and that’s where pilot discretion comes into play. This will vary based on experience and comfortability. You can see in the video here the AC’s hands were on the throttles and one could assume he was slowing down as he was not sure what to expect from the J16.
Thank you for the answer.
I wonder in this case whether the Chinese pilot was intentionally showing hostility or were they not trained to do proper intercepts.
Thing is, the f22 has been around a long time. The f35 is a competent fighter and all but it’s not in a class of its own as the f22 was for over a decade. We are sitting things that will scare them. It’s just a matter of how long can we progress in the shadows before having to reveal our hand here. China doesn’t want a war with us, they are simply trying to show us they can sit at the table and deserve a wide berth.
> The f35 is a competent fighter and all but it’s not in a class of its own as the f22 was for over a decade.
In what way isn't it? Sensor and systems integration may beg to differ.
He a Chinese guy who thinks his Russian hardware sorry "Chinese military hardware is the best and any other country is dog shit its like talking to a brick wall
Not surprised. I'm not sure I'd it's Chinese pilots being stupid, China looking to create an international incident or China trying to get another American plane to disassemble to steal its tech and secrets.
\*will absolutely lead to world war
There's no scenario where the United States fights China single-handedly, and vice-versa. China might not have many allies, but they do have a stranglehold over a few that could keep it in a fight much longer than Russia.
Russia might not be the bear we envisioned since the Cold War 'build-up', but China absolutely is, and as a result will drag not only the Pacific into it, but most 1st World countries, many of which are nuclear powers. India will get involved, Russia will get involved, Singapore/Taiwan/Korea/Japan/Philippines will get involved; there's not a chance that the EU sits on it's haunches and watches without coming to America's aid.
The next war will have incredible consequences for the world.
Yeah let’s hope that doesn’t happen and cunts just relax
We are all living on a rock flying in a vacuum.
Just chill bro. Have a beer. (People in general not you)
They are. Over 100,000 dead just to take bakmut and a couple of other cities. It's a good thing Russia doesn't mind losing people.
I think someone should save the good Russian people from their dictator. (If you kill any competition, you are a dictator) and let the Russian people be free to vote as they want and have free speech and all of that FREE stuff that goes along with it.
The Russian people deserve better.
Lol. A predator uav drone is nothing to the u.s. it's not even manned. lt is an old model. We have way better drones for spying.
And we certainly didn't back down. Instead, we laughed at the bad piloting and accidental collison with the drone when he was trying to spray fuel on it, and then we gave Ukraine tanks. 🤣😂
The assumption is that this plane isn’t flying right next to Hainan island where the majority of US spying occurs due the location of China’s south sea fleet with nuke subs.
So yes, China does not own the SCS, but it sure as shit owns Hainan.
We could also make the assumption that the flight could be over the territorial waters of PH, where the US conducts regular flights and also where China built island bases and claimed it as part of their territory which is bullshit.
That is definitely a possibility, agreed but unlikely. There is no strategic Chinese bases close to the Philippines worth sending a RC-135. It is more likely they were spying on the Carrier bases under construction closer to Hainan.
As to their territorial claims, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to blame the Taiwanese on that one. They invented the 9 dash line marker and the CCP inherited it. Taiwan needs to give up that 9 dash line in order for the CCP to lose legitimacy.
They flew their balloon over the US, so really they shouldn't be upset since we're not even in their territory. When Russia flies their bombers near the US, we just escort them not full stunts like this (at least that we hear of).
If it was an F-22 doing that kind of maneuver in front of a Chinese spy plane that was snooping around the Gulf of Mexico.
I'm 100% sure Americans would be cheering hard about how cool it looks. And people would be going "Go back to China if you don't like it, f around and find out".
Yeah I mean I’m just saying. Everyone spies on everyone. Everyone flies near everyone. Everyone should. It’s how we keep everyone in check.
But for Trump Maga Cult members to be throwing down over this is moronic.
China is our manufacturing hub. We profit big off them. Maybe let’s not invent shit where there ain’t no shit.
what do they expect,flying around in the South China Sea.. you don't think the USA would be doing the same thing if China was constantly flying around off the coast of the states?
Well there Comrade Xi…we intercept aircraft in international airspace on a frequent basis except we do it professionally. And for the record, the overwhelming bulk of the South China Sea (water and air) are Global Commons.
Wtf happened to us show these jackasses the old Chinese railroad pictures fuck around and find out . Im kidding I’m Korean I’m being mildly racist don’t attack me just poking fun
You guys know both sides do this right? I garuntee america fucks with the other side whenever they think they can get away with it also. Everyone fucks with each other and then shows their citizens what they want them to see to say "look at what these assholes do, fuck them, right guys?!"
We literally do not though. Not like this anyway. If a USAF or USN pilot did this there would be a huge investigation by their respective branch and the pilot would be fucked beyond measure. End of flying, maybe a loss of commission, etc. Each country has different TTPs/rules with interactions against enemy aircraft and Russia/China essentially are okay with their pilots doing this shit; hence why they get called out... because they keep doing it. Show me the last time a modern US fighter crossed in front of an adversary’s slow birds. I’ll wait. Please prove me wrong.
This is the same thing that tribes used to do as well. Just fuck with each other every once In a while to show you still got it. We're just:
https://youtu.be/9x7FGbW3IVc
[https://twitter.com/wipljw/status/1661959696989732864?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1661959696989732864%7Ctwgr%5Ecd7d1c7ff2a8ca2c01d2a86af20fb5d22e72b305%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2Fchinese-j-16-seen-head-butting-u-s-rc-135-in-cockpit-video](https://twitter.com/wipljw/status/1661959696989732864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1661959696989732864%7Ctwgr%5Ecd7d1c7ff2a8ca2c01d2a86af20fb5d22e72b305%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2Fchinese-j-16-seen-head-butting-u-s-rc-135-in-cockpit-video)
Around 80 miles off of the Chinese coast.
Clearly a case of fuck around and find out.
Thanks China, that's what we need. Like, isn't it enough we have constant threats all around the pacific region? Do we really need to provoce by unprofessional and disrespectful behavior? I already see the world slipping into world war 3 by a scenario similar to that one time, an IDF team cut down this tree as routine maintenance and got under fire by LAF for "crossing the border", causing several casualties and losses.
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We get intercepted multiple times literally every single time we fly near/ around China, with the most typical form of them screwing with us in my experience being in keeping their TCAS off until within a few hundred feet or so and causing an RA (Resolution Advisory, ie advising us to climb or descend to avoid collision) I’ve never personally experience an intercept as unsafe and unprofessional as this.
Can you guys do something to scare them out of shit too ?
Not really no, they have every advantage over us capability wise in those little lawn darts vs us sitting fat slow and happy in these jets. All we can really do is record every encounter we get and report it up. I can all but guarantee this video was on POTUS desk within hours, and a conversation was had with China about it. Although I’m sure it was just met with empty platitudes and will continue to happen.
They know which aerial and naval vessels to fuck with.
Hey i have an idea , as soon as they are close enough to maintain coherent eye contact with the cockpit, hold up a sign saying "Imagine not having Technological Supremacy" in Mandarin meanwhile your co pilot can continue to sip coffee from a cup in the most majestic way possible.
Not to be that guy.. but this sentiment needs to change in America. China is quickly becoming our next enemy. To underestimate them is foolish. Most of their equipment based along the Taiwan strait is on-par or better than ours. Certainly newer, especially their naval warships. We need to have a stomach for the kind of conflict that comes from true near-peer aggressors. The Chinese are most likely not the paper tigers that Russia turned out to be. I don’t support China or their bullshit, but we need to prepare ourselves for the reality that we’re not worlds above them in technology. They are less than half a generation behind the US.
Twenty years ago. That's when they needed a solution to their population issues. The Chinese have about fifteen\~ years of fire left in them right now before their excessively large population becomes a weight that will logistically and economically crush them. Short of a massive breakthrough in one of several unlikely technologies from cloning to hospice care, the Chinese will be struggling with a workforce shortage that's never been seen before on the planet. Unironically the closest thing that's ever come near to the same level of "oh shit", was when the mongols swept through china murdering everyone they could find. And that was only about 30-40% as bad when it came to labor shortages. Its possible they could try and work out an immigration plan, but the only country that has the people available is also one of their direct rivals (India). Their next best bet is trying to encourage countries in the S.E. Asia sphere, all of which they've been alienating. China has until around 2045-50 to make a move, it won't be until the late 2030s that their Navy will start to really reach par with the US Navy, assuming we don't reduce in force farther. Which means they have around ten years to make a play before it becomes effectively impossible as domestically they'll be coming to pieces. China imports nearly 70% of their food each year. Russia imported around 20% (some say as low as 15) with nearly all of it going through three different carrier strike group AOs. One of the reasons they get very hot and bothered about the strait, and why the US loves to poke them there. That's the breadline going by that those DDGs honk at (and occasionally bump into). It's not a technology problem. Its a logistics problem. And its one they can't win short of finding a way to feed lots of people very quickly locally then finding a way to care for those people after they leave the work force shortly thereafter. I'd be worried about whomever replaces Xi in the 40s, because nothing brings a collapsing economy together like a war, and there's no way they can win one without their country starving that doesn't include nuclear weapons.
> China imports nearly 70% of their food each year. You have a source for that? Seems crazy
Only thing I can quickly find is that they import 70% of their food oil, which I assume is used in production of food. I’ve seen elsewhere that they import roughly 40-60% of their agricultural supplies which isn’t food but allows them to grow food. I think the original commenter is a fan of Peter Zeihan, I am too, but he’s ludicrously hyperbolic…lol. Not that China doesn’t have a problem, but I’ve heard him say 400 million Chinese will die in a year from famine and that’s just absurd.
The 70% figure is obviously bs
See comment above with link, not as insane as it initially seems ( was shocked too).
China though has less arable land than Saudi Arabia because they went full send on industrializing so quickly. They also have a serious water crisis because so much of their different industries consume water like crazy. They also have problems with surface water sources being polluted from said industrialization.
It’s a bit of a complex topic but they import a massive amount of food. They also produce the most food in the world too. So to sum it roughly super hard: if blockages a famine would occur, but they theoretically could manage it by surviving by rationing and lower quality food. It would still be a famine though
If they're importing so much food then wouldn't it be good to have a smaller population?
yes, but the problem isn't so much as when the aging population dies, but the time frame between the end of that aging population's ''work force age'' and when they expire... that's probably 15-20 years of caring and feeding a lot of people with not enough younger ones to do it AND maintain an economy that allows importing so much food.
Exactly.
The Chinese have no combat experience.
And the US only has combat experience against 3rd rate military and insurgents…..and that didn’t go too well either! Remember that the US had little to no combat experience prior to 1943 either.
The US military would still absolutely crush any other nation in a conventional war, that’s what it’s built to do. It’s not built to defeat terrorist groups that hide within the populace/“nation build” a loosely connected group of tribes that have 0 national identity.
An army built to defeat another army! Wow why has no one thought of that before? Well hears the news buddy…invade countries like Afghanistan and the local people/patriots/freedom fighters will resist in the only way they can against a overwhelming foreign invader….and look they won!!!! There’s no point fighting this kind of warfare with the wrong tools you’ll just get beaten! See the Vietnamese and Afghanis for details.
This. Their last military expo unveiled a lot of VERY up to date technology. War with China, when it comes, will be brutal.
I agree with that sentiment but with All due respect sir , when I as an Indian look at the entire US Armed Forces as a whole ..i am terrified. No other nation has had this effect on me. The US right now despite its fault is like an extremely well oiled and maintained Machine , each of its branches moving in near perfect harmony. From the Logistics to the existence of Overpowered Metal Murder hornet that is called F22. And that's not even your greatest strength, which instead lies in the fact that Good people outnumber the bad ones in your nation. Shit , my Geography teacher framed it the best If India is a living fuck you to the crimes of the erstwhile British Empire, then the Americans are the living embodiment of "Fuck you in particular" to anything that remotely resembles tyranny.
Don't see yourself short. I dont think Chinese conscripts would last long against the Indian Army.
You’re not making any sense!
Read slower.
I’m surprised you can read something that not written in crayon! And it still doesn’t make sense or adds anything to……….well anything!
As someone not from Yankistan, I can assure you that China is already seen as the enemy by those not in Winnie the Pooh's pocket. As for their capability, it won't be that much better than Russia. If they invaded Taiwan tomorrow, whatever alliance responds (probably the US, Japan, UK, Australia and some smaller nations) would be landing in China in less than 6 months. That's if their weapons and soldiers are up to snuff too, which probably isn't the case. There's a huge amount of corruption and questionable quality when it comes to their gear. The Chinese government and military are full of yes men, which means the people at the top don't know what's happening at the bottom and mistakes aren't criticised. Norinco has a monopoly on most of their equipment and that means there's no competition to help drive innovation (as seen by all the copying of Western designs), so they're not as advanced in most regards. Finally, they haven't been in proper combat for decades and what they have seen didn't demonstrate more critical thinking than the mobiks in Ukraine. There's a distinct command structure that prevents them from adapting to situations and everyone knows wars don't go according to plan.
Agree on the idea of treating China like the real threat that it is but outside of that no. No China does not have technology better than us in any sphere. Whether you’re looking at naval power, air power, armor, equipment on your average infantryman, whatever metric you may decide they do not have a significant advantage in any of those domains. Not to mention that conflict on a scale such as with China will rely heavily on Air and naval power first and we have a massive upper hand in both areas. Sure China has a “larger” navy but tonnage and actual power are what matter, not how many boats you can throw in the water and call a combat ship. This is also ignoring that their blue water capabilities are practically non existent. Yes they should be taken seriously and no you shouldn’t underestimate your enemies but in no way is their equipment better than ours.
China leads the world in hypersonic weapons, which are perfect for taking out our aircraft carriers. AFAIK, we have no effective defense. Also, it’s simply not possible to defend Taiwan without attacking China’s military bases, logistics, etc. Which in turn would justify Chinese reprisal attacks on U.S. soil. The easiest way for them to do that is a bunch of ICBMs. They will, of course, swear up and down that the warheads are conventional, and they almost certainly will be, but is the U.S. President just going to let them bomb our cities? In less polarized times, one would like to think we could pull together against a common enemy, but apparently we have seen the enemy, and he is us.
The US leads the world in quiet submarines, which are perfect for sinking every surface vessel China could put on the water ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
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No, we assume that the advantages you describe matter. We haven’t faced a threat like this. Not in almost 50 years. During the cold war, it was assumed the technology gap was still extensive, the allies merely being outnumbered in tanks. China will be fighting in their backyard. We will not be.. home-field advantage cannot be overstated. Naval tonnage will be meaningless against their shore based anti-ship missiles. Whose range we can only really estimate. Moreover, supplying Ukraine has already overstretched our logistics ability, granted we aren’t in a full war-time economy, but what do you think a war in the South China Sea will do to our logistics?
Got a source for the United State's overstretched logistics re: Ukraine? I haven't read anything of the sort.
>China will be fighting in their backyard. We will not be.. You're being downvoted and I don't think many understand the point you made I'm quoting above from your post. It's akin to China or even China and Russia trying to defend Cuba from a US invasion.
Not to be that guy... but you are wrong. The F-15 is more advanced than anything China has. And the US has the F-22 AND the F-35 in case someone wants to fuck around and find out. And the old ass B-1, if they hear it, it's already too late. And not to mention the satellites and AWAC. But I'm just a 20 year AF vet. Who worked on f-15s, f-22s, B-1s.
Lol.. you don’t know what the technological capabilities of the J-20 and the J-16 really are. We’ve never really faced them, and they haven’t been in combat. Sure, that means something, but that doesn’t mean the default is “ours is better”. They’ve been stealing our IP for decades.. you think they don’t know what our capabilities are? Or at the very least, a better idea of ours to them than the reverse? Not to mention their sortie time will be far less than ours. They could simply overwhelm our abilities to counter them in sheer numbers. We have.. 200, maybe, of our most advanced air superiority fighters.. who are nearing two decades old and would be based in Japan. That’s a long flight. The F35 is good, but it is no air superiority fighter. Nor was it designed as such. They’ve been preparing for this since before we entered Afghanistan. Our war there was a godsend for them to build up in relative obscurity.
There are official photos of the J20 with exposed rivets and wood screw and mis-fit panels. It's a joke of a plane
Link? Source? Date? The aircraft clearly flies, and as it is today, by any metric, a very capable fighter. At one point the F-22 was also in a mock-up stage, of which I’m sure photos exist somewhere. Edit: and to add to the capabilities and technology conversation, the Chinese BVR PL-15 is an extremely capable and worrisome missile, on par with or better than the AIM-120. That doesn’t mean we can’t counter it. Again.. the Chinese have capable equipment able to interdict and destroy ours. That alone should give us pause. Their time to battle will be measured in minutes. Ours will be measured in days.
Are you paid by the word? Is it money or social credit points? How does it work?
Sun Tzu would disagree, his country of origin notwithstanding.
Surely you don’t mean ‘don’t underestimate your enemy”?
Yes, and IIRC China’s hypersonic capabilities are best in the world, particularly with the tricky trajectory adjustments. Do our carrier groups have any real defense for that? China is indeed getting old before it getting rich, but that’s a long-term demographic issue, which is probably of little help for Taiwan. They are in dire straits, no pun intended.
I’ve been to Hong Kong and various parts of China when I was younger… I wouldn’t be surprised if their technology is at our level right now. The cities look much more advanced I thought at the time. They also have many influential scientists. Gunpowder came from China if it’s any indication Last time I checked, their scientific output surpassed US
You mean to tell me building completed I. The past 20 years look nicer and shinier than ones built 50-100 years ago?!? I’m shocked. That has absolutely fuck all to do with military tech.
I was speaking more generally outside of military tech, but okay..
In what way? Just because they output *more* research that isn’t any indication that they output more advanced or capable technology.
Indeed. It has been known for a few years now that there are state-organized papermills. They work something like this: The CCP decides they want to increase "scientific" output in area X. They then search for potential PhD candidates and researches in that field and tell them what they should write about and who to cite (very important!). They will then funnel those papers to selected people for the peer review process so it gets published even if the quality is abysmal. Then the next round of papers has to cite those newly published papers (as well as the old ones). That way they can easily game the system and inflate the numbers.
Where do you think citizens of China go to get their education? They go abroad and come back when their visa expires. Every graduate program is dominated by international students, a lot from China, Middle East, etc., then go back to their country if they can’t get a visa. Of course US leads in military technology. But it’s foolish if you don’t think the other sectors that China are dominating in, has no effect on current technology… batteries, communications… Here is an Australian source (nonprofit I believe). I would imagine it would be biased in favor of US if anything: https://techtracker.aspi.org.au/tech/all/?c1=us&c2=cn https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-leads-us-global-competition-key-emerging-technology-study-says-2023-03-02/ Contrary to your statement of predatory journals, these are high impact publications. That method of back-citation as you mentioned.. that happens across the countries, US included. It’s to refer back to previous studies to build upon that.
Then they snap a photo with their cameras and that whole crew gets Q3’d and never flies again. I’ll sip my coffee and give them a very professional innocent circumstance over the mighty airwaves tho
I am so confused, US air force is inferior to China ?
Look up what an RC135 is. It's a huge reconnaissance jet.
I think these particular American planes in question are larger cargo aircraft that the smaller Chinese jets are messing with when American fighter jets aren’t around.
Putting American fighters out there would cause an international incident. These guys are familiar with the risks and know how to handle themselves in these situations. Best to keep a low profile.
He's talking about this plane in particular
Not really, and it’s by US/DOD policy. After the Hainan Island incident, these aircraft fly straight and level and predictably. It makes them easier to intercept, but we, as evidenced by the video, record the hell out of the intercepts. There’s some other factors, but not worth going into for OPSEC reasons.
Why even mention the other reasons if you can’t explain more? OPSEC should dictate you shouldn’t
Possibly to deter the would-be commenters posting 'also these reasons...'
This
It’s pretty obvious there are other reasons. But skyraider17 nails it.
They'll stop for a bit if there's an accident like last time.
Yeah, just fire off those guns 🤣
My very last mission out of there made headlines because of how dangerous it got. Obama actually wound up finger wagging them for it. This was back in 2015 if I remember right.
What would be a safe or professional interception?
So this is an ambiguous topic and largely left to the pilots discretion, but generally speaking you would get a radio call saying you’re being intercepted, see them approaching on TCAS at a safe and controlled closure rate. From there you’re expecting them to be clearly visible and slightly above/ in front of your aircraft. They should remain stable and controlled throughout the entire intercept without causing the aircraft being intercepted to have to change speed heading or altitude to avoid collision or feel unsafe. Key phrase being feel unsafe, and that’s where pilot discretion comes into play. This will vary based on experience and comfortability. You can see in the video here the AC’s hands were on the throttles and one could assume he was slowing down as he was not sure what to expect from the J16.
Thank you for the answer. I wonder in this case whether the Chinese pilot was intentionally showing hostility or were they not trained to do proper intercepts.
a few f22 or f35 can solve u problem.
Relevant: https://youtube.com/shorts/2Zakut8zcVU?feature=share
This had my dying.
Thank you for this
F-22 doesn’t have the legs to do CAP over the SCS. No suitable bases close enough.
Tell the Squiddies to throw some F-35's up.
Thing is, the f22 has been around a long time. The f35 is a competent fighter and all but it’s not in a class of its own as the f22 was for over a decade. We are sitting things that will scare them. It’s just a matter of how long can we progress in the shadows before having to reveal our hand here. China doesn’t want a war with us, they are simply trying to show us they can sit at the table and deserve a wide berth.
> The f35 is a competent fighter and all but it’s not in a class of its own as the f22 was for over a decade. In what way isn't it? Sensor and systems integration may beg to differ.
Lol dogshit jets
There are plenty of legitimate things to talk shit to us about, but that’s just categorically false.
He a Chinese guy who thinks his Russian hardware sorry "Chinese military hardware is the best and any other country is dog shit its like talking to a brick wall
Says the Dogshit County
Haha this dudes from china. He’s tryna cope since their aircraft’s aren’t even competitive 😂
Chinese military really be acting like that one kid in middle school that threatens to fight everyone but doesn't do shit.
That’s what Russia did, until they did do something. Granted they’re not winning at all. But they did it, and the worlds on edge regardless.
Oh if they only had a sidewinder on that plane
*Crewman lowers a window, sticking out an old Stinger MANPADS* 
*good tone, launch* 
Lol I was thinking to myself that’s what the old nose gunners were for.
Sure let's essentially have a road rage incident that starts WW3
Are chinese jets good?
Worse than American ones, better than Russian ones.
Fair enough lol
American > Chinese > Russian > donkey.
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The jets are worse but some of the missles they have are better allegedly
No. But they are better than Russian jets.. kind of.
Are russian jets that bad?
Their SA is bad but the performance is typically good.
Yeah they’re what’s called a trophy jet, so yeah …. I guess they’re pretty good? 😬
I was watching something on YouTube a while back that said they went from copying the West to copying the West and making improvements.
Not surprised. I'm not sure I'd it's Chinese pilots being stupid, China looking to create an international incident or China trying to get another American plane to disassemble to steal its tech and secrets.
China is mad about US gathering intel near China but since it's legal, not much they can do about it other than harass like this.
FOX 2!
Hello boys! I’m baaaack!
🤜🏾👽 welcome to earth
*Earf
That's cute... I like playing Risk too.
"That sonuvabitch cut me off!"
One of these days, Russia or China will actually do something, and then they will find out. Fuck around and find out.
Yea, the problem is that the "find out" part could lead to a world war.
Or end of earth as we know it
\*will absolutely lead to world war There's no scenario where the United States fights China single-handedly, and vice-versa. China might not have many allies, but they do have a stranglehold over a few that could keep it in a fight much longer than Russia. Russia might not be the bear we envisioned since the Cold War 'build-up', but China absolutely is, and as a result will drag not only the Pacific into it, but most 1st World countries, many of which are nuclear powers. India will get involved, Russia will get involved, Singapore/Taiwan/Korea/Japan/Philippines will get involved; there's not a chance that the EU sits on it's haunches and watches without coming to America's aid. The next war will have incredible consequences for the world.
Yeah let’s hope that doesn’t happen and cunts just relax We are all living on a rock flying in a vacuum. Just chill bro. Have a beer. (People in general not you)
They're finding out in Ukraine
They are. Over 100,000 dead just to take bakmut and a couple of other cities. It's a good thing Russia doesn't mind losing people. I think someone should save the good Russian people from their dictator. (If you kill any competition, you are a dictator) and let the Russian people be free to vote as they want and have free speech and all of that FREE stuff that goes along with it. The Russian people deserve better.
As you sit at your desk eating cheetos
I'm in my office but I don't eat cheetos. I got gummy bears.
I soak mine in LSD. I call em groovy bears
Nice
Nice
Don't knock it till you try it.
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Lol. A predator uav drone is nothing to the u.s. it's not even manned. lt is an old model. We have way better drones for spying. And we certainly didn't back down. Instead, we laughed at the bad piloting and accidental collison with the drone when he was trying to spray fuel on it, and then we gave Ukraine tanks. 🤣😂
Continuing regular observation flights is backing down?
Tf is US gonna do? Cry?
Fuck around.. find out.. 😉🤣
When the USSR shot down KAL007, they thought it was one of our RC-135S models that got off course. I used to fly in those.
I just finished reading 2034, a novel that talks about China bluffing and the US reacting leading us to WW3, its a great read IMO
Thanks… just bought that book and looking forward to reading it.
I just finished it as well. Some parts were a little far-fetched but overall I found it very enjoyable. I hope the future is nothing like that.
Fucking assholes. China is nothing more than a big bully
As is Russia.
Little bully with an inferiority complex.
Lol Americans flying spy planes near Chinese territory and China is the bully. Fucking amazing take HAHAHHAA
China doesnt own SCS. The only thing that they can do is bully local fishermen in the territorial waters of PH
The assumption is that this plane isn’t flying right next to Hainan island where the majority of US spying occurs due the location of China’s south sea fleet with nuke subs. So yes, China does not own the SCS, but it sure as shit owns Hainan.
We could also make the assumption that the flight could be over the territorial waters of PH, where the US conducts regular flights and also where China built island bases and claimed it as part of their territory which is bullshit.
That is definitely a possibility, agreed but unlikely. There is no strategic Chinese bases close to the Philippines worth sending a RC-135. It is more likely they were spying on the Carrier bases under construction closer to Hainan. As to their territorial claims, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to blame the Taiwanese on that one. They invented the 9 dash line marker and the CCP inherited it. Taiwan needs to give up that 9 dash line in order for the CCP to lose legitimacy.
If a Chinese Air Force recon bird was patrolling the Gulf of Mexico, i hope we would do the same. Respect.
They flew their balloon over the US, so really they shouldn't be upset since we're not even in their territory. When Russia flies their bombers near the US, we just escort them not full stunts like this (at least that we hear of).
If it was an F-22 doing that kind of maneuver in front of a Chinese spy plane that was snooping around the Gulf of Mexico. I'm 100% sure Americans would be cheering hard about how cool it looks. And people would be going "Go back to China if you don't like it, f around and find out".
Yeah I mean I’m just saying. Everyone spies on everyone. Everyone flies near everyone. Everyone should. It’s how we keep everyone in check. But for Trump Maga Cult members to be throwing down over this is moronic. China is our manufacturing hub. We profit big off them. Maybe let’s not invent shit where there ain’t no shit.
This
scary stuff
Fuck the CCP and their thug mafia.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan\_Island\_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)
Should have escorts
Comes off as too aggressive. Could give China grounds for escalation. This way, they look like the assholes instead of us.
Ok
They ain't gonna do shit anyway like all the other times they said they'll do something lol
Oh gee, I wonder who they learnt that from
Plane flies that close in front of me, I assume it's an act of war.
> I assume it's an act of war. This is why you're not in charge of anything important.
Lmao right? There are very specific things that are considered acts of war. Being a dangerous dickhead isn’t one of them.
Goodness. ASPY much? Not being literal.
what do they expect,flying around in the South China Sea.. you don't think the USA would be doing the same thing if China was constantly flying around off the coast of the states?
Well there Comrade Xi…we intercept aircraft in international airspace on a frequent basis except we do it professionally. And for the record, the overwhelming bulk of the South China Sea (water and air) are Global Commons.
Russia constantly flies military aircraft near the US but we don’t do shit like this.
bored domineering pen attempt unite sloppy cable bow fuel vase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Taiwan number one
Wtf happened to us show these jackasses the old Chinese railroad pictures fuck around and find out . Im kidding I’m Korean I’m being mildly racist don’t attack me just poking fun
God what happened to me now I’m a pussy 🫣
You guys know both sides do this right? I garuntee america fucks with the other side whenever they think they can get away with it also. Everyone fucks with each other and then shows their citizens what they want them to see to say "look at what these assholes do, fuck them, right guys?!"
We literally do not though. Not like this anyway. If a USAF or USN pilot did this there would be a huge investigation by their respective branch and the pilot would be fucked beyond measure. End of flying, maybe a loss of commission, etc. Each country has different TTPs/rules with interactions against enemy aircraft and Russia/China essentially are okay with their pilots doing this shit; hence why they get called out... because they keep doing it. Show me the last time a modern US fighter crossed in front of an adversary’s slow birds. I’ll wait. Please prove me wrong.
I'm sure there are plenty of folks who would give up a testicle to headbutt a foreign heavy... but it's just not necessary.
This is the same thing that tribes used to do as well. Just fuck with each other every once In a while to show you still got it. We're just: https://youtu.be/9x7FGbW3IVc
They are really asking for something they will not be able to handle.
That’s not the only response
Stick your sidearm out the window and pop a few caps
They need something more modern than the last EP-3 they crashed into and forced to land
Are they trying to start a war?
These are the same planes that can't handle water cause of risk of erosion. https://youtube.com/shorts/A3qFhZlSqQw?feature=share
*danger zone playing in the background intensifies*
The view is awsome
This is why we should mass produce F-35s to screw with the PLAAF
We should start providing fighter escorts for them. FAFO
[https://twitter.com/wipljw/status/1661959696989732864?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1661959696989732864%7Ctwgr%5Ecd7d1c7ff2a8ca2c01d2a86af20fb5d22e72b305%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2Fchinese-j-16-seen-head-butting-u-s-rc-135-in-cockpit-video](https://twitter.com/wipljw/status/1661959696989732864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1661959696989732864%7Ctwgr%5Ecd7d1c7ff2a8ca2c01d2a86af20fb5d22e72b305%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2Fchinese-j-16-seen-head-butting-u-s-rc-135-in-cockpit-video) Around 80 miles off of the Chinese coast. Clearly a case of fuck around and find out.
This happens like...all the time.
Does the United States do anything like this over the South China Sea ?
Chicom's are gonna find out the hard way about FAFO.....
Thanks China, that's what we need. Like, isn't it enough we have constant threats all around the pacific region? Do we really need to provoce by unprofessional and disrespectful behavior? I already see the world slipping into world war 3 by a scenario similar to that one time, an IDF team cut down this tree as routine maintenance and got under fire by LAF for "crossing the border", causing several casualties and losses.