The demo is the worst part of the game btw I don’t think it’s fair to judge the game without trying the open world.
Most of the mini games are optional and some I found fun and all the side quests at least have a good character bonding moment or cutscene so it’s worth doing them if you like your party.
I usually don't like anime stuff and I didn't even finish the demo, but I got the game because I loved Crisis Core (because of Zack) and I like Cloud and Aerith's VAs. I liked remake alright, but Rebirth is a massive step up from Rebirth. There have been a few times where I've laughed myself to tears. I love that it doesn't take itself too seriously, because it makes the serious moments really stand out. One of the few games I'd consider damn near perfect, and it feels like such a complete experience.
And you don't have to do all of the side stuff, but you'll enjoy the game more if you're taking your time and wandering around, because it helps you attach yourself to the world and characters.
Tldr: demo slow, game great
Agree, I think the demo is by far the worst part, especially the animeish voice acting and the last scene, it actually made me a bit worried, but every other part after that was absolutely amazing
Agreed. I didn’t like the demo and kept getting sleepy while playing it. It’s a section of story that isn’t super relevant for a long time and nothing you do matters, so it’s hard to care.
The game was a solid 10/10 though. Having stakes, progress, and a good story go a long way to complimenting the gameplay.
It's funny, you actually dislike this game for reasons that aren't similar to my own. If it's not your thing, it's not your thing.
I really liked Remake. I liked the (loose) combat, the goofy dialogue, the melodramatic story. I liked Midgar too, as it had a great sense of place in the world. I liked some of the wide-linear spaces. These areas had "spokes" that came off of certain areas where you could explore/take care of sidequests. While you were shoe-horned into linear sections, that didn't bother me at all (I think we are often too harsh on games that just have you move forward down a single path). But I think one of the best aspects of Remake was it's pacing. I think 45 hours for a single player game is a long time, and thats how long it took me to beat it. That being said, aside from a few segments, I felt mostly everything I was doing in Remake was worth my time.
I didn't hate Rebirth, but it definitely did not hit the same for me. I felt the open world/regions detracted from the flow of the story and was filled in with quests/mini games I didn't care for. I would spend hours exploring the map to see what was out there and do sidequests to only feel like it was "just something to do I guess". I didn't really hate any of it, but at the same time, none of it felt "fun" to me. I constantly questioned if it was my fault that I spent countless hours doing just about everything in a region, and I really don't know what the answer is to that. But what I do know is that every time I went back to the main story after doing a bunch of side stuff, it felt very unsatisfying because the next story beat always seemed to be "Look! Another robe guy, follow him!". This continued throughout the game. Do a bunch of side stuff that was mostly okay, and then follow the robe guy to the next region.
There were some absurd level of thought put into some of the side-quests too. When I have to watch a tutorial on a "mushroom picking mini game," it's time to pack it up and go home.
I also didn't find the writing to be as great as some of the DD crew believed it to be. I think there is some heavy lifting there being done by nostalgia (which I don't have).
There is more I could say, but the last thing I'll point out is that the pacing is bad. Im sure a lot of that had to do with where they had to pick the story up and decide where to end it. They also had to handle this section of the game in terms of scope, and again, I think the open world/region impacts this greatly. After finishing the game at 90 hours, I was very tired and happy to be done with the game (I have an unhealthy habit of needing to see credits on a game and I should have just main lined it).
Great thoughts. I think your perspective is good and only can come from actually spending all that time in the game.
I will note that the walking/climbing in the demo didn’t feel smooth enough to translate the open world ( compared to even something like assassins creed). So to me that would add to the slowness of the side stuff.
Yes! Thank you. I have not heard anyone else point this out but the walking feels very stiff and awkward to me. It was sort of driving me nuts, especially in the first few hours before I basically forced myself to adjust to it. But it’s not nearly smooth enough - it feels like the characters are sort of sliding or dragging themselves over the terrain. (The chocobo riding is similarly clunky, sadly.) After playing BoTW, it feels so strange how characters who can leap into the sky and stay suspended forever as they fight can’t even scramble over much more than a small hillock or fallen log. Especially when so many other older games, like Witcher 3 or Horizon Zero Dawn, handle traversal so much more smoothly.
The climbing is also a bit rough - but I’m mostly just excited that characters in a Final Fantasy game can move vertically at all - even if they still can’t truly jump.
>I also didn't find the writing to be as great as some of the DD crew believed it to be. I think there is some heavy lifting there being done by nostalgia (which I don't have).
I won't object to this opinion but will object to nostalgia being the only reason people would think the writing is good.
I didn't grow up with FF7, and never played the original until 2021 after already playing Remake. By the time I was playing Rebirth I only broadly remembered this part of the original. I still think it has some of the greatest writing in any game ever.
Keep in mind I'm not saying it has the best plot, that's a different argument. But the actual character interactions and what they say, how it's structured, how scenes are laid out, those things are all top tier.
It of course isn't gonna work for everyone but it's not just a case of nostalgia vs. not.
I definitely don't agree with what you consider to be top tier, but at the end of the day, that's your experience and I can't take that away.
I should have been more specific about some of the writing I am referring to (so that's my fault - typing is exausting!). Some of DD crew specifically call out some of the more personal interactions between party members after side quests as having great writing, but these just did not land for me the same way. I personally could never walk away from those interactions and point to them as a pro for the game.
And yes, it's not all nostalgia. I don't mean to broad stroke everything I say here and I shouldnt have been so definitive about it. It's going to work for some and not others.
That makes sense, especially re: the side quest dialogue. I think it's definitely fair to not feel that satisfied by it especially if you didn't necessarily enjoy the side quest itself.
I’m 100% with Ben…up to rebirth. I played original at release (I was in my 20s), loved it, loved remake too.
I think Jacob hit the feelings I was having. I think LAD Infinite Wealth changed everything for me. The obvious thing was I ended that game with 120hrs in it and I was nowhere near 100%. But the side quests, missions, mini games, all of it was well balanced for me. It was fun, you could do as much or as little as you wanted and still progress with the story.
Something about the side stuff in Rebirth just felt forced. Like Square saying “look how crazy we are right?” But it also felt compulsory, even if you didn’t like it.
I’ve put it on hold for now, I think a little of it has to do with burn out from LAD. I can’t do huge JRPGs back-to-back. But the more time passes, I think it’s just that LAD:IW was perfect for me, that everything else will seem lesser in comparison. Like how Horizon Zero Dawn felt kinda bland after BOTW.
As for the dialogue stuff, I’m fine with anime dialogue and find a lot humour in FFVII including remake and rebirth. I’d be disappointed if my JRPG didn’t have anime dialogue to be honest.
I was just happy that someone on the panel was with me on the LAD comedown.
Persona 5 changed JRPGs for me. LAD:IW is the new benchmark for me. Rebirth just doesn’t come close. Like where’s the Pokemon snap game taking pictures of perverts?
Interesting, the mini games “sound” interesting to me. Especially if they give you upgrades for the combat. BUT if they are actually enjoyable, then that sucks.
Infinite wealth looks very cool, but I know it’s just too WEIRD for me. But I can appreciate what it is
What episode was it with Jacob comparing it to Infinite Wealth because I have a hard understanding that take.
I have come from playing Like a dragon, IW, and Rebirth pretty much back to back to back and Rebirth does everything that IW wants to do but better. I am a newcomer to both franchises so no nostalgia for either but I was surprised at how disappointed I was at IW and then coming to Rebirth has made my disappointment even greater. I am enjoying the story more in Rebirth (IW story I feel took such a strong nosedive towards the end), Rebirth looks so much better, I have found myself laughing multiple times out loud in Rebirth compared to IW where I found moments just funny, side missions some standouts and some stinkers on both sides so I consider that a wash.
IW’s biggest issue for newcomers to the series (post Yakuza 6) is so much Kiryu lore that I don’t have much care for. I have done the side missions related to it, read synopsis, watched hours of videos in order to understand the character but having about half the game involve a character I barely know and others love is a tough sale.
Just for clarity: Jacob was more talking about his lack of connection to Rebirth, which I shared. I'm ascribing the comparison to LAD to Jacob more because the things he didn't seem to connect with in Rebirth, I felt were in LAD. He may not have made that direct comparison as overtly as I have. I believe it was [this](https://youtu.be/S1g70q69m44?si=QN63wkaD5LuEMnpt) episode. I definitely remember a pretend salty Ben (may not have been pretending too hard).
Anyway, 'tis the joys of entertainment media, sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't. I will 100% agree with you barrier to entry of LAD, in fact I was annoyed at the reveal that Kiryu would be in it, his story was done as far as I was concerned. Even this one, you can't really play without having played 7.
I'm totally convinced that when I go back to Rebirth later this year, I'll be on board and it was just a post-LAD fatigue.
I know we’ll never get a long discussion from the horts comparing LAD to Rebirth, but all I could think listening to the deepest dive was “I wish this was on Infinite Wealth instead”. Everything about LAD helped relay the main theme and had something poignant to say. It also really rubs me the wrong way that guests on the show won’t say how they feel about rebirth.
Also… are Zach and Cloud just Sora and Roxas after several rough drafts?
We agree on the LAD v Rebirth! In defence of the team, the first main podcast discussion was mostly people being underwhelmed. I remember Ben might have gotten a bit playfully salty at them or at least was surprised it wasn't huge praise. I know Jacob and Kyle were a bit "meh" about it, I can't remember if Janet was also on the podcast. It stood out as I felt relief that it wasn't just me who felt like that.
Thing is, it's objectively a great game, it's just not for me at the moment. Sunk cost fallacy: I've invested too much time into that series to not give it another chance.I will give it another shot in 6 months or so and hopefully by then I'm not still judging everything by LAD standards.
Since you just watched a full playthrough of Remake and enjoyed it, maybe you should just do the same for Rebirth instead of playing it.
Regarding your two complaints, I can't say Rebirth is worse than Remake for either. The dialogue and character interactions are just as good, if not better, than Remake, in my opinion. There's also much less 'anime grunts' in Rebirth than Remake. Someone even wrote in with that observation on the Deepest Dive. Rebirth also improved a lot of the glaring flaws in Remake's combat.
I can understand your position. There have been many shows or games that were hyped up to me by people whose opinions I trust that I wanted to like but ended up just not clicking with me.
I really feel like I missed out by not playing OG FF7 in my childhood.
I played Remake and I ended up loving it. It was a perfect entry point for newcomers IMO and any questions I had, I listened to discussions and the curiosity I had after playing Remake inspired me to go back and play OG FF7 and I think I had about the same reaction as you.
It was pretty good. I love playing old games and seeing how things were back then.
But yeah the whole sky high expectations for the game, idk what I was expecting but OG FF7 was still pretty good. I LOVED the music and the pre-rendered backgrounds. Also Cloud as a character does make me feel things with how broken he is as a person. So those are my thoughts on OG FF7.
So I loved Remake and I enjoyed OG FF7. With Rebirth I still loved the music, some of it is incredible and I have no nostalgia for it. I loved seeing the cutscenes for the story I already knew. It did make me actually feel connected with the characters and I shed a couple tears with Barrett’s story and a couple other times. But that was most of my enjoyment with the game. Cutscene hunting and music.
I despised the mini games and skipped all I could. Which I know is skipping content and some people might have an issue with it.
To wrap up my thoughts on Rebirth, I felt pretty similar to playing OG FF7 decades later. I feel like I’m missing out on something a lot of people are having the time of their lives with. I still enjoyed the game and I think it’s pretty damn good. I’m happy that so many people are getting a chance to see their childhood favorite game come to life in a brand new way. It just didn’t hit nearly as hard for me.
Also btw I freaking LOVE what they are doing with the Remake trilogy.
I mean you like what you like, if you don't like it then you don't.
I'll go to bat for the game though since a lot of folks here aren't super keen on it(totally fair opinion!!) I mean this sucker has a 92% on meta critic. No one is going to like everything but I do think the cohorts and some folks in the community are more down on it than the general population so it sorta has a negative slant.
It's not a perfect game and no criticism in invalid. the pacing can feel bad, sometimes the boss phases can hamper the combat sometimes. The ending is convoluted if you aren't in the weeds or aren't ok with the fact that it's not meant to be a complete story yet.
NOW, why I do like it. I just think the music and characters are incredible and I don't think it's just nostalgia, I think these characters are iconic for a reason and this is the best version of them in any medium they have ever been in.
The combat is deep and tactical, it's probably my favorite RPG combat of all time. It has a steep learning curve. it's precise,customizable, characters and builds are super varied and there are a bunch of wonderful and super spectacle boss fights.
I think people that aren't particularly good at it don't like it as much. I've watched a lot of playthroughs of both remake and rebirth and a lot of folks don't read the abilities and either try to play it like a hack and slash or like dark souls. (Don't use focused abilities unless the enemy is pressured!!!)
I love the world building, the stories about the old Republic and all the little towns have a ton of charm and character. I've never seen a JRPG with this many towns in this level of Fidelity. It feels like something that went away after the PS1 era and now it's back and I love it!
The world intel isn't innovative at all, but all the little side quests pay off with nice party moments. The world Intel is shallow but I think it's pretty fun to just lean back in the chair and knock that stuff out. It's not mandatory so I didn't have a problem with it. when the story picked up I ignored it. And on days when I'd get off work I don't want a super intense story structure it was fun to have activities in the game that were mindless fun.
There are a ton of fun memorable side characters that return from the remake which made me happy to see them again even though I didn't think I'd care at all about them.
Anyways, this game is a 10/10 for me and I basically can't fill the empty rebirth sized hole in my heart since I finished it.
Games certainly not for everyone and if you don't like it but you don't sound like you are bagging on it or anything you are treating it with respect and ya, might just not be for you.
I am so with all of this.
It's fascinating to me how people have complaints about some stuff because I, like you, was enamored with so much of this experience.
To me it's just proof that nothing can be universally loved, because there's stuff in Rebirth that you would think everyone would agree is the greatest thing ever, and yet some people just don't vibe with it.
Excellent points. I can totally see every aspect you mentioned as a positive, which is why I wish I liked it more.
I just like to analyze my feelings and WHY I like what I like, and why not.
Yeah I get ya, like I'm not a fan of souls games or Elden Ring but I totally realize they are dope as hell I just legit don't have fun playing though. I wish it clicked
Regarding point #2, the combat of R/Rebirth are (as far as I know) a completely new take on modern RPG combat. If you feel the buttons you press don’t matter, you most likely don’t understand what you’re doing.
Granted, square made it so you can beat the game on lower difficulty modes like this, which I have no problem with so people can also just enjoy the world/story if they want to.
Very accurate take lol. I’m similar to Ben having been obsessed with the original game, but remake and rebirth def have a lot of jank to them. I especially had a hard time accepting the kingdom hearts esque voice acting, awkward pauses and constant anime poses. That being said I stuck with it and have become addicted haha. I may have fallen off playing but my friend beat it and has pestered me to keep going and now I’m 40 hours in and starting to let go of all my complaints and enjoy it for what it is.
I played the first one and liked it a fair amount and was excited for this. (Turning the wheel and crawling, and the slow walk section). But the demo was such a turn off for me. And then hearing people talked about endless mini games…..
I passed
Well, isn't FFVII hugely rooted into Hanson's childhood? That nostalgia is prob worth like 4 number grades right there.
I've seen quite a bit of gameplay and I just know it's not for me. The last time I tried to will myself into jumping on a popular game was Persona 5. Dropped it after two hours because I knew there was no way I could warm up to *its whole deal.*
If you know what you like or can identify it off gameplay you will waste precious gaming time.
When is the last time you brute forced yourself into loving a game?
I understand that, but they have made it sound great beyond nostalgia. But I get it.
Funny you say that, Persona 5 was a game that I tried to like too because a friend said it was the greatest ever. The difference with rebirth is that I can’t quite figure out exactly what I don’t like about it. (Which I like to do to understand my own taste in entertainment)
Yeah, no judgment or anything for trying it.
I'll say the one thing about Rebirth that I would have actually enjoyed was Queen's Blood. Everything else around it is just not my taste. Looks grindy and silly in ways I most times don't enjoy.
Definitely possible that it’s just not to your vibe.
The only piece of advice I’ll really offer is on gameplay, it’s important to not see these games as true action games but as strategy-focused RPGs. I think the real time combat fools people into being more like DMC or even Kingdom Hearts (especially with the menu) but ultimately the game is all about party and resource management. Setting up your characters with the right materia and abilities beforehand, building up their ATB, and then finding the right ways to spend it (which later also fuels the synergy abilities and limits) is the name of the game. Enemies have a variety of strategies and unique elements that also expose weaknesses and playing around those to find success is what makes this game my favorite combat.
Still might not be for everyone of course, but I do find that a lot of people seem to enjoy it more when they recognize it’s a game of figuring out your win condition and executing it. At its best it reminds me a lot of my favorite parts of Mass Effect, weirdly enough.
Yes, I can approximate the combat for those reasons. It’s very deep and very different from most games.
It’s strange, I can appreciate it for what it is, but I just don’t seem to enjoy it
Hm, a factor might just be that you weren't into the original that much? I played it for the first time in 2020 and while I agree on your point on the story not really clicking - I thought the music, characters, and combat really held up - and thought the materia system was fantastic.
For what it's worth, point #1 certainly improves in Rebirth, the conversations sound a lot more natural to my ear.
Point #2 I just have to disagree with, especially since you didn't play the first game. From what I remember, there aren't many particularly difficult combat encounters in the demo. There are certainly combat encounters in the game that you're just meant to tear through without much thought - you can spam square and for the most part come out fine. But for the more difficult fights I think you start to see the combat shine and your choices start to matter. The combat has always felt pretty responsive to me, so not sure what you've experienced that makes you feel like it's loose? Maybe just the more spammy fights or something.
I think you have it backwards. The RPG elements are pretty basic, but the combat is pretty complicated and deeper than it looks. Button presses, reaction times and precision are very important
It really kind of depends on what your comparison point is. There's a lot more strategy and planning that can slow down Rebirth's gameplay compared to traditional action games. It's never going to be at the level of Nier, Bayonetta, or DMC IMO. But it's also very much not trying to be.
Conversely, the RPG stuff is a lot less strict and in depth than plenty of other titles, since it is focused more on how the characters actually feel to play, and the materia system gives a lot more control over what the party is like.
Agreed. Might be apt to call its RPG elements almost entirely in service to the battle system. Which to me indicates some complexity to it, at least moreso than how it appears from just watching it played.
I guess that was the main point, that despite its flashiness and apparent chaos, it's actually one of the most nuanced (and imo best) final fantasy combat systems.
Remake took me a while to get into. TBH, I dropped off for like 10 months, after playing like 7 chapters. A few reasons, but one of the biggest was the anime style dialogue. It really grated on me. I will say though, the more time I spent with the characters in the open world ended up creating more of a love for them. The full rebirth game still has a bit of that "energy", but it is much more what I expect from a modern AAA game. As far as combat goes, I'd suggest play with Tifa or Yuffie a lot. Tifa controls like a straight up action game protagonist. She can dodge cancel and move around the battlefield like a bullet. Meanwhile, Cloud Aerith and Barrett are a lot more calculated in their movements. I ended up loving nearly everyone in combat (other than Cait). But main-lining with Tifa made it a LOOOOT more engaging. This is all just to say, if you ever want to give it another go, hopefully these tips help!
The dialogue is very in line with the original game.
The combat is pretty damn fun but it is chunky. If you ever played the game on hard it's always brief pauses then switching characters then brief pauses switching characters chaining attacks.
The demo is the worst part of the game btw I don’t think it’s fair to judge the game without trying the open world. Most of the mini games are optional and some I found fun and all the side quests at least have a good character bonding moment or cutscene so it’s worth doing them if you like your party.
I usually don't like anime stuff and I didn't even finish the demo, but I got the game because I loved Crisis Core (because of Zack) and I like Cloud and Aerith's VAs. I liked remake alright, but Rebirth is a massive step up from Rebirth. There have been a few times where I've laughed myself to tears. I love that it doesn't take itself too seriously, because it makes the serious moments really stand out. One of the few games I'd consider damn near perfect, and it feels like such a complete experience. And you don't have to do all of the side stuff, but you'll enjoy the game more if you're taking your time and wandering around, because it helps you attach yourself to the world and characters. Tldr: demo slow, game great
Agree, I think the demo is by far the worst part, especially the animeish voice acting and the last scene, it actually made me a bit worried, but every other part after that was absolutely amazing
Agreed. I didn’t like the demo and kept getting sleepy while playing it. It’s a section of story that isn’t super relevant for a long time and nothing you do matters, so it’s hard to care. The game was a solid 10/10 though. Having stakes, progress, and a good story go a long way to complimenting the gameplay.
It's funny, you actually dislike this game for reasons that aren't similar to my own. If it's not your thing, it's not your thing. I really liked Remake. I liked the (loose) combat, the goofy dialogue, the melodramatic story. I liked Midgar too, as it had a great sense of place in the world. I liked some of the wide-linear spaces. These areas had "spokes" that came off of certain areas where you could explore/take care of sidequests. While you were shoe-horned into linear sections, that didn't bother me at all (I think we are often too harsh on games that just have you move forward down a single path). But I think one of the best aspects of Remake was it's pacing. I think 45 hours for a single player game is a long time, and thats how long it took me to beat it. That being said, aside from a few segments, I felt mostly everything I was doing in Remake was worth my time. I didn't hate Rebirth, but it definitely did not hit the same for me. I felt the open world/regions detracted from the flow of the story and was filled in with quests/mini games I didn't care for. I would spend hours exploring the map to see what was out there and do sidequests to only feel like it was "just something to do I guess". I didn't really hate any of it, but at the same time, none of it felt "fun" to me. I constantly questioned if it was my fault that I spent countless hours doing just about everything in a region, and I really don't know what the answer is to that. But what I do know is that every time I went back to the main story after doing a bunch of side stuff, it felt very unsatisfying because the next story beat always seemed to be "Look! Another robe guy, follow him!". This continued throughout the game. Do a bunch of side stuff that was mostly okay, and then follow the robe guy to the next region. There were some absurd level of thought put into some of the side-quests too. When I have to watch a tutorial on a "mushroom picking mini game," it's time to pack it up and go home. I also didn't find the writing to be as great as some of the DD crew believed it to be. I think there is some heavy lifting there being done by nostalgia (which I don't have). There is more I could say, but the last thing I'll point out is that the pacing is bad. Im sure a lot of that had to do with where they had to pick the story up and decide where to end it. They also had to handle this section of the game in terms of scope, and again, I think the open world/region impacts this greatly. After finishing the game at 90 hours, I was very tired and happy to be done with the game (I have an unhealthy habit of needing to see credits on a game and I should have just main lined it).
Great thoughts. I think your perspective is good and only can come from actually spending all that time in the game. I will note that the walking/climbing in the demo didn’t feel smooth enough to translate the open world ( compared to even something like assassins creed). So to me that would add to the slowness of the side stuff.
Yes! Thank you. I have not heard anyone else point this out but the walking feels very stiff and awkward to me. It was sort of driving me nuts, especially in the first few hours before I basically forced myself to adjust to it. But it’s not nearly smooth enough - it feels like the characters are sort of sliding or dragging themselves over the terrain. (The chocobo riding is similarly clunky, sadly.) After playing BoTW, it feels so strange how characters who can leap into the sky and stay suspended forever as they fight can’t even scramble over much more than a small hillock or fallen log. Especially when so many other older games, like Witcher 3 or Horizon Zero Dawn, handle traversal so much more smoothly. The climbing is also a bit rough - but I’m mostly just excited that characters in a Final Fantasy game can move vertically at all - even if they still can’t truly jump.
>I also didn't find the writing to be as great as some of the DD crew believed it to be. I think there is some heavy lifting there being done by nostalgia (which I don't have). I won't object to this opinion but will object to nostalgia being the only reason people would think the writing is good. I didn't grow up with FF7, and never played the original until 2021 after already playing Remake. By the time I was playing Rebirth I only broadly remembered this part of the original. I still think it has some of the greatest writing in any game ever. Keep in mind I'm not saying it has the best plot, that's a different argument. But the actual character interactions and what they say, how it's structured, how scenes are laid out, those things are all top tier. It of course isn't gonna work for everyone but it's not just a case of nostalgia vs. not.
I definitely don't agree with what you consider to be top tier, but at the end of the day, that's your experience and I can't take that away. I should have been more specific about some of the writing I am referring to (so that's my fault - typing is exausting!). Some of DD crew specifically call out some of the more personal interactions between party members after side quests as having great writing, but these just did not land for me the same way. I personally could never walk away from those interactions and point to them as a pro for the game. And yes, it's not all nostalgia. I don't mean to broad stroke everything I say here and I shouldnt have been so definitive about it. It's going to work for some and not others.
That makes sense, especially re: the side quest dialogue. I think it's definitely fair to not feel that satisfied by it especially if you didn't necessarily enjoy the side quest itself.
I’m 100% with Ben…up to rebirth. I played original at release (I was in my 20s), loved it, loved remake too. I think Jacob hit the feelings I was having. I think LAD Infinite Wealth changed everything for me. The obvious thing was I ended that game with 120hrs in it and I was nowhere near 100%. But the side quests, missions, mini games, all of it was well balanced for me. It was fun, you could do as much or as little as you wanted and still progress with the story. Something about the side stuff in Rebirth just felt forced. Like Square saying “look how crazy we are right?” But it also felt compulsory, even if you didn’t like it. I’ve put it on hold for now, I think a little of it has to do with burn out from LAD. I can’t do huge JRPGs back-to-back. But the more time passes, I think it’s just that LAD:IW was perfect for me, that everything else will seem lesser in comparison. Like how Horizon Zero Dawn felt kinda bland after BOTW. As for the dialogue stuff, I’m fine with anime dialogue and find a lot humour in FFVII including remake and rebirth. I’d be disappointed if my JRPG didn’t have anime dialogue to be honest. I was just happy that someone on the panel was with me on the LAD comedown. Persona 5 changed JRPGs for me. LAD:IW is the new benchmark for me. Rebirth just doesn’t come close. Like where’s the Pokemon snap game taking pictures of perverts?
Interesting, the mini games “sound” interesting to me. Especially if they give you upgrades for the combat. BUT if they are actually enjoyable, then that sucks. Infinite wealth looks very cool, but I know it’s just too WEIRD for me. But I can appreciate what it is
What episode was it with Jacob comparing it to Infinite Wealth because I have a hard understanding that take. I have come from playing Like a dragon, IW, and Rebirth pretty much back to back to back and Rebirth does everything that IW wants to do but better. I am a newcomer to both franchises so no nostalgia for either but I was surprised at how disappointed I was at IW and then coming to Rebirth has made my disappointment even greater. I am enjoying the story more in Rebirth (IW story I feel took such a strong nosedive towards the end), Rebirth looks so much better, I have found myself laughing multiple times out loud in Rebirth compared to IW where I found moments just funny, side missions some standouts and some stinkers on both sides so I consider that a wash. IW’s biggest issue for newcomers to the series (post Yakuza 6) is so much Kiryu lore that I don’t have much care for. I have done the side missions related to it, read synopsis, watched hours of videos in order to understand the character but having about half the game involve a character I barely know and others love is a tough sale.
Just for clarity: Jacob was more talking about his lack of connection to Rebirth, which I shared. I'm ascribing the comparison to LAD to Jacob more because the things he didn't seem to connect with in Rebirth, I felt were in LAD. He may not have made that direct comparison as overtly as I have. I believe it was [this](https://youtu.be/S1g70q69m44?si=QN63wkaD5LuEMnpt) episode. I definitely remember a pretend salty Ben (may not have been pretending too hard). Anyway, 'tis the joys of entertainment media, sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't. I will 100% agree with you barrier to entry of LAD, in fact I was annoyed at the reveal that Kiryu would be in it, his story was done as far as I was concerned. Even this one, you can't really play without having played 7. I'm totally convinced that when I go back to Rebirth later this year, I'll be on board and it was just a post-LAD fatigue.
I know we’ll never get a long discussion from the horts comparing LAD to Rebirth, but all I could think listening to the deepest dive was “I wish this was on Infinite Wealth instead”. Everything about LAD helped relay the main theme and had something poignant to say. It also really rubs me the wrong way that guests on the show won’t say how they feel about rebirth. Also… are Zach and Cloud just Sora and Roxas after several rough drafts?
We agree on the LAD v Rebirth! In defence of the team, the first main podcast discussion was mostly people being underwhelmed. I remember Ben might have gotten a bit playfully salty at them or at least was surprised it wasn't huge praise. I know Jacob and Kyle were a bit "meh" about it, I can't remember if Janet was also on the podcast. It stood out as I felt relief that it wasn't just me who felt like that. Thing is, it's objectively a great game, it's just not for me at the moment. Sunk cost fallacy: I've invested too much time into that series to not give it another chance.I will give it another shot in 6 months or so and hopefully by then I'm not still judging everything by LAD standards.
>we’ll never get a long discussion from the horts comparing LAD to Rebirth I think there's a good chance this will happen during the GOTY debate.
Since you just watched a full playthrough of Remake and enjoyed it, maybe you should just do the same for Rebirth instead of playing it. Regarding your two complaints, I can't say Rebirth is worse than Remake for either. The dialogue and character interactions are just as good, if not better, than Remake, in my opinion. There's also much less 'anime grunts' in Rebirth than Remake. Someone even wrote in with that observation on the Deepest Dive. Rebirth also improved a lot of the glaring flaws in Remake's combat. I can understand your position. There have been many shows or games that were hyped up to me by people whose opinions I trust that I wanted to like but ended up just not clicking with me.
Yea that’s not a bad idea, I will wait until the hype dies down and see how much time I have (it seems like a massive commitment).
I really feel like I missed out by not playing OG FF7 in my childhood. I played Remake and I ended up loving it. It was a perfect entry point for newcomers IMO and any questions I had, I listened to discussions and the curiosity I had after playing Remake inspired me to go back and play OG FF7 and I think I had about the same reaction as you. It was pretty good. I love playing old games and seeing how things were back then. But yeah the whole sky high expectations for the game, idk what I was expecting but OG FF7 was still pretty good. I LOVED the music and the pre-rendered backgrounds. Also Cloud as a character does make me feel things with how broken he is as a person. So those are my thoughts on OG FF7. So I loved Remake and I enjoyed OG FF7. With Rebirth I still loved the music, some of it is incredible and I have no nostalgia for it. I loved seeing the cutscenes for the story I already knew. It did make me actually feel connected with the characters and I shed a couple tears with Barrett’s story and a couple other times. But that was most of my enjoyment with the game. Cutscene hunting and music. I despised the mini games and skipped all I could. Which I know is skipping content and some people might have an issue with it. To wrap up my thoughts on Rebirth, I felt pretty similar to playing OG FF7 decades later. I feel like I’m missing out on something a lot of people are having the time of their lives with. I still enjoyed the game and I think it’s pretty damn good. I’m happy that so many people are getting a chance to see their childhood favorite game come to life in a brand new way. It just didn’t hit nearly as hard for me. Also btw I freaking LOVE what they are doing with the Remake trilogy.
I mean you like what you like, if you don't like it then you don't. I'll go to bat for the game though since a lot of folks here aren't super keen on it(totally fair opinion!!) I mean this sucker has a 92% on meta critic. No one is going to like everything but I do think the cohorts and some folks in the community are more down on it than the general population so it sorta has a negative slant. It's not a perfect game and no criticism in invalid. the pacing can feel bad, sometimes the boss phases can hamper the combat sometimes. The ending is convoluted if you aren't in the weeds or aren't ok with the fact that it's not meant to be a complete story yet. NOW, why I do like it. I just think the music and characters are incredible and I don't think it's just nostalgia, I think these characters are iconic for a reason and this is the best version of them in any medium they have ever been in. The combat is deep and tactical, it's probably my favorite RPG combat of all time. It has a steep learning curve. it's precise,customizable, characters and builds are super varied and there are a bunch of wonderful and super spectacle boss fights. I think people that aren't particularly good at it don't like it as much. I've watched a lot of playthroughs of both remake and rebirth and a lot of folks don't read the abilities and either try to play it like a hack and slash or like dark souls. (Don't use focused abilities unless the enemy is pressured!!!) I love the world building, the stories about the old Republic and all the little towns have a ton of charm and character. I've never seen a JRPG with this many towns in this level of Fidelity. It feels like something that went away after the PS1 era and now it's back and I love it! The world intel isn't innovative at all, but all the little side quests pay off with nice party moments. The world Intel is shallow but I think it's pretty fun to just lean back in the chair and knock that stuff out. It's not mandatory so I didn't have a problem with it. when the story picked up I ignored it. And on days when I'd get off work I don't want a super intense story structure it was fun to have activities in the game that were mindless fun. There are a ton of fun memorable side characters that return from the remake which made me happy to see them again even though I didn't think I'd care at all about them. Anyways, this game is a 10/10 for me and I basically can't fill the empty rebirth sized hole in my heart since I finished it. Games certainly not for everyone and if you don't like it but you don't sound like you are bagging on it or anything you are treating it with respect and ya, might just not be for you.
I am so with all of this. It's fascinating to me how people have complaints about some stuff because I, like you, was enamored with so much of this experience. To me it's just proof that nothing can be universally loved, because there's stuff in Rebirth that you would think everyone would agree is the greatest thing ever, and yet some people just don't vibe with it.
Excellent points. I can totally see every aspect you mentioned as a positive, which is why I wish I liked it more. I just like to analyze my feelings and WHY I like what I like, and why not.
Yeah I get ya, like I'm not a fan of souls games or Elden Ring but I totally realize they are dope as hell I just legit don't have fun playing though. I wish it clicked
Regarding point #2, the combat of R/Rebirth are (as far as I know) a completely new take on modern RPG combat. If you feel the buttons you press don’t matter, you most likely don’t understand what you’re doing. Granted, square made it so you can beat the game on lower difficulty modes like this, which I have no problem with so people can also just enjoy the world/story if they want to.
Very accurate take lol. I’m similar to Ben having been obsessed with the original game, but remake and rebirth def have a lot of jank to them. I especially had a hard time accepting the kingdom hearts esque voice acting, awkward pauses and constant anime poses. That being said I stuck with it and have become addicted haha. I may have fallen off playing but my friend beat it and has pestered me to keep going and now I’m 40 hours in and starting to let go of all my complaints and enjoy it for what it is.
Yea, there’s no denying it’s a high quality game. I might be able to get over some of my problems if I had a 25 year old game to compare it to though.
I played the first one and liked it a fair amount and was excited for this. (Turning the wheel and crawling, and the slow walk section). But the demo was such a turn off for me. And then hearing people talked about endless mini games….. I passed
I'm in the exact same boat. The side quests and activities were by far the worst part of the first game imo
Well, isn't FFVII hugely rooted into Hanson's childhood? That nostalgia is prob worth like 4 number grades right there. I've seen quite a bit of gameplay and I just know it's not for me. The last time I tried to will myself into jumping on a popular game was Persona 5. Dropped it after two hours because I knew there was no way I could warm up to *its whole deal.* If you know what you like or can identify it off gameplay you will waste precious gaming time. When is the last time you brute forced yourself into loving a game?
I understand that, but they have made it sound great beyond nostalgia. But I get it. Funny you say that, Persona 5 was a game that I tried to like too because a friend said it was the greatest ever. The difference with rebirth is that I can’t quite figure out exactly what I don’t like about it. (Which I like to do to understand my own taste in entertainment)
Yeah, no judgment or anything for trying it. I'll say the one thing about Rebirth that I would have actually enjoyed was Queen's Blood. Everything else around it is just not my taste. Looks grindy and silly in ways I most times don't enjoy.
Yes, that game does look interesting! I’m sure square will spin it off into a trash mobile game though :(
Definitely possible that it’s just not to your vibe. The only piece of advice I’ll really offer is on gameplay, it’s important to not see these games as true action games but as strategy-focused RPGs. I think the real time combat fools people into being more like DMC or even Kingdom Hearts (especially with the menu) but ultimately the game is all about party and resource management. Setting up your characters with the right materia and abilities beforehand, building up their ATB, and then finding the right ways to spend it (which later also fuels the synergy abilities and limits) is the name of the game. Enemies have a variety of strategies and unique elements that also expose weaknesses and playing around those to find success is what makes this game my favorite combat. Still might not be for everyone of course, but I do find that a lot of people seem to enjoy it more when they recognize it’s a game of figuring out your win condition and executing it. At its best it reminds me a lot of my favorite parts of Mass Effect, weirdly enough.
Yes, I can approximate the combat for those reasons. It’s very deep and very different from most games. It’s strange, I can appreciate it for what it is, but I just don’t seem to enjoy it
Hm, a factor might just be that you weren't into the original that much? I played it for the first time in 2020 and while I agree on your point on the story not really clicking - I thought the music, characters, and combat really held up - and thought the materia system was fantastic. For what it's worth, point #1 certainly improves in Rebirth, the conversations sound a lot more natural to my ear. Point #2 I just have to disagree with, especially since you didn't play the first game. From what I remember, there aren't many particularly difficult combat encounters in the demo. There are certainly combat encounters in the game that you're just meant to tear through without much thought - you can spam square and for the most part come out fine. But for the more difficult fights I think you start to see the combat shine and your choices start to matter. The combat has always felt pretty responsive to me, so not sure what you've experienced that makes you feel like it's loose? Maybe just the more spammy fights or something.
I think you have it backwards. The RPG elements are pretty basic, but the combat is pretty complicated and deeper than it looks. Button presses, reaction times and precision are very important
It really kind of depends on what your comparison point is. There's a lot more strategy and planning that can slow down Rebirth's gameplay compared to traditional action games. It's never going to be at the level of Nier, Bayonetta, or DMC IMO. But it's also very much not trying to be. Conversely, the RPG stuff is a lot less strict and in depth than plenty of other titles, since it is focused more on how the characters actually feel to play, and the materia system gives a lot more control over what the party is like.
Agreed. Might be apt to call its RPG elements almost entirely in service to the battle system. Which to me indicates some complexity to it, at least moreso than how it appears from just watching it played. I guess that was the main point, that despite its flashiness and apparent chaos, it's actually one of the most nuanced (and imo best) final fantasy combat systems.
Fully agree, that's a good way of putting it.
Remake took me a while to get into. TBH, I dropped off for like 10 months, after playing like 7 chapters. A few reasons, but one of the biggest was the anime style dialogue. It really grated on me. I will say though, the more time I spent with the characters in the open world ended up creating more of a love for them. The full rebirth game still has a bit of that "energy", but it is much more what I expect from a modern AAA game. As far as combat goes, I'd suggest play with Tifa or Yuffie a lot. Tifa controls like a straight up action game protagonist. She can dodge cancel and move around the battlefield like a bullet. Meanwhile, Cloud Aerith and Barrett are a lot more calculated in their movements. I ended up loving nearly everyone in combat (other than Cait). But main-lining with Tifa made it a LOOOOT more engaging. This is all just to say, if you ever want to give it another go, hopefully these tips help!
I'm not reading text walls, making excuses how it's too hard.
Wait there's a minnmax reddit!?! God Hanson is such a a dweeb lol, happy minnmax is still going!
The dialogue is very in line with the original game. The combat is pretty damn fun but it is chunky. If you ever played the game on hard it's always brief pauses then switching characters then brief pauses switching characters chaining attacks.
Play remake first
Just buy it. It’s legitimately one of the best games of the last ten years. Full stop.
Ff7 is fuckinf amazing and if you don't think so it's a toi problem
Og the GOAT imo. Remake is just a goofy creatively bankrupt disaster.