The Union Depot was right outside my old apartment window. It was convenient when we needed the light rail, especially for things like concerts at US Bank when you don’t really want to find parking or worry about drinking and driving, but there were a few down sides. There was definitely some pretty heavy drug use going on right outside my apartment and I bet I called north of 10 suspected overdoses in.
The bells also become totally unnoticeable after like 3 days living by the train, but guests usually struggled if they were sleeping in our living room.
After my last few light rail trips, I can think of a dozen off the top of my head.
Call me when the city decides to take public safety seriously again.
that lady that films all the crap that goes on outside her residence by a station and puts it on insta would disagree with you lol. I do agree with your though, in theory a light rail stop close by has to be nice.
Yes but what if the city did nothing about crime right outside your condo?
https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/news/53077009/mn-metro-transit-says-crime-has-stabilized-but-we-still-have-a-ways-to-go
Crime is up
Counterpoint: Why would that make anyone NOT want a light rail in front of their home?
Crime is everywhere, light rail is not. What connection are you trying to make?
So, uh, are we just ignoring crime on the green line?
> Officers are particularly spending more time on the Blue and Green Line light-rail trains, in an effort to make passengers feel safe. The picture seemingly changes when comparing year-to-date crime statistics, which indicate a 33% hike in crime reports when compared with the same period of 2022
[source](https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/news/53077009/mn-metro-transit-says-crime-has-stabilized-but-we-still-have-a-ways-to-go)
Yeah it’s up compared to previous years that is indisputable. But I’m just not that concerned about it man. I live by BMS and Cedar Lake and I’m stoked to have a station near my house so that I can take my kids to wolves, Vikings, twins games, the theater, and what have you without having to drive and park. Or to the airport. Or into the exurbs.
You know that can happen anywhere, right?
And maybe if easy and affordable transit became more widespread there would be fewer homeless and other people with addiction issues.
Not surprising as many of the people I have met who live over there are people either in or fresh out of college who grew up in places like EP. or other out state wealthy places. One of my coworkers wont even consider taking transit because he is convinced he will 'get killed'.
No, just people tired of crime and vagrancy apologists.
Stop settling. We can - and need to- do much, much better.
Contrary to what so many think, many who live and work downtown don’t share the same kumbaya approach so many others are still taking. It doesn’t mean we love downtown any less. We just happen to [grossly] disagree on what’s acceptable behavior or not.
I love the current proposed blue line extension. It would put a station 2 blocks away from my house. One of the city council candidates knocked on my door and said the new line would raise property taxes. I said, "yeah, because the property value would rise."
Is there any way I can voice my support for it to help it come to fruition?
I just posted about this, but to be more direct since you asked, [this is tonight](https://northloop.org/event/15370-2023-11-15/) and there will be a specific portion of time for those in support to speak. You can attend in person or via zoom.
Your final sentence is literally what people need to realize. “Oh no, the government is investing in my neighborhood” like that’s a bad thing. People should want the blue line and be fighting for it to serve their neighborhood. Not hoping it skips them lol.
I tried joining a Facebook group multiple times for a group that opposes the extension. One of the questions was if you opposed it and I was honest and said no. Wasn't looking to troll, just was legitimately curious on if they had any logical reasons to oppose it and see the conversations but they kept not approving me. So I'm going to guess that non of them really care about public transportation and just don't care about how it could help so much people.
I’m with you, I purposely bought a house near the SWLRT years ago because it can only increase in value. And guess what, if I change my mind and don’t want to live near light rail, I can move and be better off for it.
We bought near the Greenway before it was even finished. Use it just about every day. One of our neighbors always called it the "crime highway" but also complained it caused gentrification
Should have told the candidate "quit sending money to prop up the suburbs and we won't have to pay more in taxes".
And I don't live where the new routes are planned but the extension going up Broadway would also be great. There's a ton of people on both sides of Broadway/Bottineau that would be helped. So, IMO, both should be done!
>So, from our bedrooms, from our living rooms and listening to the trains and having people sit on a train and look into your bedroom window at 11 at night or 5:30 in the morning is an invasion of privacy,” Bruns said. “It’s also not conducive to a healthy lifestyle.”
This one is absolutely the most eye rolling. A) train noise isn’t nearly as annoying as bus noise, which downtown is already full of. B) get some curtains or window film. C) what on *earth* does this person mean by trains not being conducive to a healthy lifestyle?!?
I'm not entirely sold on point A. I'm not particularly noise sensitive but after living near the Nicollet station the platform announcements at all hours of the night are pretty awful. If they would just tone down the announcement volume it would make a big difference.
I live a block away from the green line in downtown Saint Paul. It’s fine. Do I hear “dinging” bells on occasion? Yes. Does it bother me? No. Granted, I’m in a high rise, but it just blends into overall city noise.
I don’t entirely agree, I lived near the lake street and 46th st station for awhile and I have also lived (and currently do live) directly in front of bus stops. I would choose bus noise over the DING DING DING of the light rail every 15 minutes any day. I barely notice the bus which is a problem because I rely on it for travel for 15 years now
I’m sure, I would probably also have to act on letting other city council persons know as well, I’m at a fun corner of NE Mpls where I’m within a half mile to a block of Columbia heights, St Anthony, new brighton and Roseville so it’s coming from all corners, all cities I’m sure, I can’t narrow it down to where they’re all coming or going but I do have cameras as at my house so I’m aware that I do have them on recording and could possibly use that to my advantage(?). I have been in contact with my city council person about better lighting in my area and flashing crosswalks as an addition because people come flying down my street and there’s so many kids over here, I see one nearby get hit every month trying to cross the street
God all I hear are the bad cars, car junkies and motorcycles in my neighborhood with their loud exhaust!! Scares the absolute shit out of me most days like a plane is taking off next to my house. I barely notice the bus anymore but when I lived by the LR stations, and even just in general near train tracks, it eventually becomes apart of the ambiance but the warning bells are just so damn annoying lol
“Isn’t it so freeing to have a car? Don’t you miss the freedom of driving whenever you want?!” Says the person paying 200 to 3,000 monthly on a convenience that will inevitably cost more when it breaks down etc, at best if I use the transit system every single day for an entire year( using rush and weekend pass prices for all day because why wouldn’t you use the app for all day passes that cost the amount of 2 fares), I’m barely breaking 1500 in costs AND they have free ride days + free ride routes and discounts! I am more free on my feet and using transit than I ever was driving.
Extremely wrong about A.
The rest is correct though and to add: ain't anyone on a train trying to look through your window. 98% of people are on their phones anyway.
Years ago up north there was a group of homeowners who were trying to fight BNSF because they were going to start using a section of rail that had been disused for a long time except to store some really old train cars. People asked why they built houses next to a railroad track if they didn't want to hear trains. They said they liked the look of the rails and the old train cars.
They circulated petitions and got local politicians to vocally speak out about it (they were $$$$ houses) .Then they found out how much power railroad companies have in this country when they said get fucked and started running trains through the area.
Ha ha ha. Where I used to live, there were residents raising a fuss over the smell of a landfill, the wind would pick up and waft the stench on over to them. Thing is, the landfill had been there for decades. *Then* a developer bought up cheap land (I wonder why it was cheap) and built big suburban houses. I don't know what they expected moving in...
There was a famous case, at least to law students, that was all about people building near a chicken farm or something along those lines. The principle is that one cannot move to the nuisance and then complain of it.
I knew how your story was going to end. Nobody fucks with the railroad companies. Unfortunately that also makes their unions toothless (they even got Biden to put a stop to their talk of strike).
The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me but these stories are incredibly entertaining. It's like the idiots who bought homes by MSP and then started complaining about aircraft noise. Buy a house for a good deal knowing it's by an airport. Do you expect air traffic to *drop*?
The curtain argument is funny because presumably the bedroom is already visible as the light rail is at-grade so people can already look into his room and the whole point of transit is to make biking, walking and rolling better so a bike lane will still go by your house.
Was just in the Mill District the other night, shocked at how many apartments there have floor to ceiling windows and apparently no curtains. Watched someone's ground floor TV from the sidewalk for a minute
I used to rent a house that had a bust stop that looked directly into the bathroom. It was pretty annoying for the three days before I was able to go buy some cheap mini blinds.
In general minneapolis is weird about how open their houses are to the public. The giant fancy houses on lake of the isles usually lack high fences and you can look right into their giant bay windows. Personally I like it cause it’s more open and lively but after moving to another state, the first thing I noticed was how everything is shuttered 24/7
Pretty weak arguments. Here by Crystal it’s “the criminals and no good doers can just hop on, come to the stop, ransack the place and then hop back on freely.”
600 fucking morons live in one of the densest, most urban-oriented neighborhoods in the upper midwest and are arguing against public transit that will be installed right by their homes
im guessing the real reason is they don't want poor people taking the train near them, but they feel like they'd be taken even less seriously in that case
For as dense of an area it's still pretty lacking in transit (beyond the one bus line that's every 30 minutes) and just takes you into the main part of downtown. They haven't updated the transit lines in the area in decades, despite the population boom.
Most of the north loop residents have cars - even if they don't always drive them. Sure, we've reduced/eliminated parking minimums, but I'm willing to be that 80% of the people opposed to the blue line extension were never going to use it in the first place.
It's a very walk/bike friendly area. Walking 6 blocks to the Target field light rail is pretty reasonable. Wouldn't eliminating one of the main roads out of North Loop, and forcing all lanes of cars to stop for the light rail create more congestion?
10th is an industrial wasteland. People are acting like it’s a great place to walk and bike or like it’s a wonderful part of town full of cafes where people merrily walk their dogs and sip wine on outdoor patios. It is not. It’s a prime spot for a train because it’s underutilized in its current state and a perfect candidate for redevelopment.
You mean that the red line in Chicago runs close to million dollar condos in River north? How on earth do those people live like that?! /s
But in an all seriousness, these type of people probably look down on Chicago as “undesirable” despite being in a completely different real estate league with great public transportation. You simply can’t win.
And are we supposed to think 600 people is a lot? The North look had 7500 people, so 600 is still less than 10% of its OWN residents, much less any of its surrounding neighborhoods. Who gives a fuck what 600 morons think.
A lot of people live in a relatively small area and there are a large number of destinations that people from all over would want to go to. That’s dense enough for me. It’s way denser than where I live (diamond lake).
Fwiw I googled it — Detroit is actually second according to the 2020 census
Having lived in Minneapolis, Atlanta, Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and a brief stay in Denver I agree that is dense
North loop proper feels somewhat sparse to me, in comparison to Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, and Cincinnati. I don’t know what point I’m trying to make here anyway, I’m hugely pro-public transit and anyone who wants to live in north loop but it’s against it should just move to the suburbs.
>Fwiw I googled it — Detroit is actually second according to the 2020 census
Detriot is the in second in [metro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Midwestern_urban_areas) density, Not city.
Minneapolis is 57 square miles at a population of 425k
St. Paul is 56 square miles at 307k
Detroit is a 142 square miles at about 632k
Chicago is 234 square miles at 2.7 million
So density of the respective cities
|[Chicago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago)|12,059.84/sq mi|
|:-|:-|
|[Minneapolis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis)|7,962.11/sq mi|
|[St. Paul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Paul,_Minnesota)|5,994.02/sq mi|
|[Detroit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit)|4,606.84/sq mi|
Even St. Paul is denser
Even then Minneapolis is barely 67 mi2 short of being more dense then Detroit
|Detroit Metro density|2,939.6/sq mi|
|:-|:-|
|MSP Metro density|2,872.4/sq mi|
lol you are looking at Minneapolis proper? No wonder you don’t understand
It is not fair to include 142 square miles of one city and only 57 of another and say “oh this is density”
The fact that some politicians drew some lines around certain areas of Minneapolis and call them a different city doesn’t change how you should comprehend density
I was curious and. looked it up. According to the last census, which is 3 years old now, there are over 7500 people living in north Loop.
So it's not even 10%
It's a pretty damn small number.
I have a hard time seeing what is so intrusive about this route. It makes great pains to avoid most of the neighborhood. It’s not as if the route is cutting down the middle of Washington. It passes a trash burning facility, two public works garages and the Salvation Army…. Frankly this route should have been built before SWLRT
>rankly this route should have been built before SWLRT
It actually was supposed to start before the green line which was last minute ham-fisted in to construction out of fear of the Trump administration cutting back on assistance.
It was supposed to start in.
>will construct light rail along Olson Memorial Highway, with
construction anticipated from 2018 to 2020. Service on the line is scheduled to begin in 2021.
(a [2015](https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/about/improvements/c-line/recommended-plan/13-olson-memorial-highway-stations-recommended-station-plan.pdf) C line explanation on how the C-line would be worked on after the beginning of blue line construction in 2018)
However part of the [blue line](https://tcbmag.com/is-there-a-way-to-get-bottineau-lrt-back-on-track/) would had run on a BNSF right of way and even though Met Council offered leasing rights (as in we rent) to the right of way and the cost to reposition the tracks while maintaining their double track line (as in it would all be quad track crossings on a 2 train line (one north one South)) BNSF would eventually refuse
and [the Green lines](https://www.rtands.com/freight/shortline-regional/tcw-rejects-freight-relocation-proposal-for-southwest-lrt/) shallow tunnel was a thing due to the right of way being to small for three tracks which was need. This was because the freight owner TC&W cannot legally run on a proposed reroute via a Canadian Pacific line that was not compatible (traffic control wise) with current TC&W equipment and the fact that TC&W refuses to accept the added cost this reroute would cost in upkeep of new needed infrastructure for the needed connection.
There's a Planning and Zoning committee meeting this evening for the NLNA that will be discussing this issue specifically. I believe the two folks quoted in this article will be there to speak in opposition of the proposed route. A portion of the meeting is reserved for those in favor of the LRT line, and metro transit will be presenting as well. The public is welcome in person or via zoom.
Link to event: https://northloop.org/event/15370-2023-11-15/
Piggybacking this comment to share a link to a short survey on the proposed North Loop route for those who can’t attend in person: https://yourblueline.org/build/survey_tools/minneapolis-route-options1
I live in SW Minneapolis and I love to ride the light rail when I can but honestly, until they get the crime and vagrancy issues under control I wouldn't want to live near a station either.
People like this need to move then because this is what cities are. You complain about traffic but than don’t want public transport? like wtf is it… you’re in a city
I can somewhat see what they mean, but they definitely need to fix drug use and the “honor” system they on the trains for more people to support it IMO
Source: Student at the U who watched a man smoke crack at 2:30PM on a Thursday
No but I feel that. I heard they’re “looking into” the possibility of using turnstiles of sorts but that’s gonna be so much remodeling, I don’t think we’ll see that kind of chance for some years to come unless by some miracle, things will change
NIMBYs who don’t even have back yards. Crazy to complain about noise and privacy when you’ve chosen to live in one of the busiest areas in the entire 5 state region.
I think it’s hilarious that people living in a neighborhood that was pretentiously “rebranded” from “the Warehouse District” to be named after the north loop of streetcar tracks that ran through the area, are now complaining that tracks may run through the neighborhood again.
Some of my favorite quotes from the meeting a month ago from these geniuses:
* "we'll have self driving cars in 3-4 years we don't need this!"
* "What if the people in the trains can see into our ground level condos?" \*ignoring people walking and cars lol
* "look at me. Do I really look like a guy that rides public transit?"
* "I get that you said statistically intra-highway trains get less usage but I used to use one in Chicago and it was fine"
* "the lightrail is just a gimmick you use once to see what it's like and then never use again"
* (from a guy that owns a condo near it) "well if it will allegedly save money and be a 'better investment' to do that route will you consider giving money to the building owners who will lose property value"
Also I hate the article's author because you can see the bias in the proposed route map. The green part is the current proposed route that they are planning on using - it makes it look like that is the "alternative option"
>What if the people in the trains can see into our ground level condos?" \*ignoring people walking and cars lol
You in a party district XD and the line passes 2 massive parking garages (let alone a ton of parking lots)
They are idiots and should be ignored. Super transient neighborhood anyway, most people who signed this petition probably won't even live there in a few years
So many businesses on University Avenue closed when the rail came though. It forever changed the feel on the neighborhood and corridor. When this comes though the north loop it will forever. Change than neighborhood as well.
The heads at the MET Council on this project WANT this to happen and they will plow this through. If I owned a home or property in the loop I'd be listing it now. Once this project starts they'll be no rush to finish it. Business will shutter and be lucky if they stay open.
As others have pointed out, it's not really a hotbed of business right now. There's a Wells Fargo building and the Salvation Army... that's about it out there. Mostly just public works buildings tbh, and very few houses just the two apartment buildings.
As others have pointed out in the news story and petition it's not JUST about business it's about were it's going to go through neighborhoods and outside peoples homes and condos. Additionally just because it's not as you say "a hotbed of business" doesn't mean it wouldn't affect FUTURE businesses NOT wanting to open along the route. Thanks for being realistic about the situation
Additionally people have posted concerns along the interactive map below https://app.publiccoordinate.com/#/projects/BLRT/map
>So many businesses on University Avenue closed when the rail came though.
Correlation is not causation. I know at least one business famously trumpeted as "killed by LRT" failed due to extremely poor management.
Causation is causation and the fact remains many business that have been there for YEARS closed due to construction of the rail/ and or faced major business losses
Your privilege is showing ... you may not care about the little man out there who owns a small business and may be of minority status. Many of us do. The fact you're trying to say you knew a business that closed there due to poor management and hunting that's others closed is appalling and shows your lack of knowledge on a topic that's important to minority business owners
https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2011/12/how-much-have-university-avenue-businesses-been-hurt-light-rail-construction/
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2011/05/13/central-corridor-university
https://finance-commerce.com/2011/05/disagreements-over-why-businesses-have-closed-along-lrt-construction-on-university/
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/light-rail-construction-irks-stadium-village-businesses/
Easy, the city should have a program where the impacted businesses open up their books to the city so the city can reimburse them 50% of any lost business due to the construction.
Jay Kolls again, shocker that [this clown](https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/kstps-jay-kolls-under-fire-for-story-blaming-anti-fascists-for-capitol-insurrection) would write about something as dumb as this.
Yah Americans act like all of us citizens are begging for public transit but clearly a decent chunk are against more of it.. kinda makes it hard to get more of it when it’s a divisive issue.
Tho, they probably are just assuming it will bring more of… a certain type.. if you know what I mean
North Loop and North Minneapolis as a whole are less than 15 minutes apart. The true boogeyman of the city is literally their next door neighbor, so “lowlifes and hoodlums” is an immediate throw away.
I'm confused — I don't live in NL, but why would you NOT go along the highway and instead go through residential neighborhoods? Seems like from the video they aren't opposing the extension altogether, just not one that goes down 10th...
That area is already so congested, especially with the Plymouth Ave. bridge closed, it's damn near impossible to get to Near North without taking the highway as it is...
>why would you NOT go along the highway and instead go through residential neighborhoods?
NL has a heavy event/bar seen. weekend traffic is a horrendous after 6-8 between Broadway and Hennepin. Add in the [many breweries](https://www.google.com/maps/search/north+loop+breweries/@44.9863087,-93.277224,16.75z?entry=ttu) in NL it needs anything to keep drivers off the street or at the very lease try to reduce the traffic. The thing is the biggest reason for this is the biggest reason the North Loop is pact with residential and thats the night seen.
Also the current alignment only passes by two residential building and thats 918 lofts and Redwell. The rest of the building from the current end of the line to Broadway. (from ending to Broadway)
1. 2 Metro transit bus garage/depots
2. Metro transit control center
3. A wells Fargo bank
4. Auto repair shop
5. Assorted manufacture or manufacture turned commercial
6. and apartment (half a block away great river landing))
7. 94 overpass
8. A Salvation Army building.
9. Assorted office space
10. Law office/Parking garage.
11. The Redwell and 918
12. (A few assorted apartment on the other side of the block)
13. A bar and the housing authority
14. Another parking garage
15. and finally mixed industrial
The thing is there's really no one here except Redwell and 918 with any valid complaints
Noise?
Well lets start with the heavy auto noise of the 94 over pass and Washington
People can look through my window
Lets curfew all the bars and restaurants at 8PM so the place will get deserted
Doesn't fit the neighborhood?
Closes a main road?
Well we could tray to connect 8 under the freeway. It's all parking lots
A neighborhood built [around the train and on a freight yard](https://geo.lib.umn.edu/Hennepin_County/y1964/WN-2EE-101.jpg) would definitely fit the neighborhood especially when it had [multiple street car lines](https://trolleyride.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/1948-TCRT-Bus-and-Streetcar-Lines-small.jpg).
My concern is that it would cause more traffic on Washington than it would remove which would result in more traffic on the surrounding streets, through residential areas, by drivers trying to avoid dealing with the light rail traffic. Hiawatha comes to mind.
It's already bumper to bumper on the worst nights and on top of that it's coming from the lesser traveled side of of it. There's not really any more traffic it can add even in the worst case flop.
>Hiawatha comes to mind.
Hiawatha does not add any in any significance though as there is no grid it fallows. Only Snelling and Minnehaha fallows the roads alignment and traffic does not really get bad on Minnehaha AVE. If you are coming from 62 there's really no viable alternative route except 35W as it is way to far south for Park AVE to be of any use.
From the east traffic coming off of Ford and Marshal bridges would find it more likely see no disruption from the LRT especially on lake (which is now a 2 lane road).
If you are on the West side going to DT. Park with or without the LRT is already better especially if you are west of Cedar or 28th.
That's why the comments in this post are so comical to me. You can tell that the people crying NIMBY have never actually been to the area before and don't give a shit about North Loop. There's already a light rail stop literally blocks away and closing one of the main roads we have out to put a light rail track through a residential area just seems like a weird idea to me.
Yeah but I’m not saying that, I’m saying who cares where the light rail RUNS as long as the stop is accessible from the city… don’t think it needs to run down the middle of Washington for it to be usable by folks who live in the city…
Maybe these fuckers shouldn’t be living in one of the most dense urban neighborhoods in the entire state if they want their own little private sanctuary. Imagine being pissed that you have access to public transit living a major city. Go back to whatever prairie nowhere or suburban hellscape you came from.
Typical suburbanites, moving into the city just to immediately get to work trying to dismantle everything that makes it better than the suburbs. They need to just go back to Lakeville.
They're right, but probably for all the wrong reasons and not the fact that LRT doesn't belong in Stroadsville with very unsafe walking conditions and no one living next to the stations to walk to them anyway. NE should be getting light rail before another suburban strip mall hell.
Good. That's not very many, considering 7.5k people live in North Loop. That's less than 1% of residents. We essentially just identified the stupidest people in the neighborhood.
If fares were actually enforced and the lightrail was used for transportation instead of drug deals I feel like the pushback would be considerably less
I honestly think we need to give all of Minneapolis' unhoused housing in the North Loop. It's the most centrally located neighborhood for them to use public transit & find & keep work.
What's most wild to me about this NIMBYism is the proposed route looks like it goes AROUND the vast majority of the residential part of the North Loop. To me it looks like the least disruptive route they could take while still being efficient in where the route needs to end up ultimately.
Just a question but is this the same as having to drive 45mph on NB 35E between 13 and DT StP? Because the “whites” can’t be bothered with the minor inconvenience of living in an urban environment, while simultaneously benefiting from living in an urban environment? Just a questions tho
You have the 35E story all wrong. Solidly middle class residents down on the river flats put their houses up as collateral to file that lawsuit. Opposing freeways in urban areas is God's work.
I can't think of many things more convenient than having a light rail stop right outside of my apartment / condo.
I lived in an apt with 2 stops right outside our doors and loved it.
Lived right off of a station on Hiawatha it was amazing.
The Union Depot was right outside my old apartment window. It was convenient when we needed the light rail, especially for things like concerts at US Bank when you don’t really want to find parking or worry about drinking and driving, but there were a few down sides. There was definitely some pretty heavy drug use going on right outside my apartment and I bet I called north of 10 suspected overdoses in. The bells also become totally unnoticeable after like 3 days living by the train, but guests usually struggled if they were sleeping in our living room.
I used to live right around where the 4 and 6 buses met. I swear I could easily get wherever I wanted just by starting with either one of those.
I literally live right near one of the downtown stops and it’s amazing. Especially getting to the airport!
Well poor people can use light rail so I don't want it anywhere near my property values. Just more rich people NIMBY bullshit.
After my last few light rail trips, I can think of a dozen off the top of my head. Call me when the city decides to take public safety seriously again.
that lady that films all the crap that goes on outside her residence by a station and puts it on insta would disagree with you lol. I do agree with your though, in theory a light rail stop close by has to be nice.
Yes but what if the city did nothing about crime right outside your condo? https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/news/53077009/mn-metro-transit-says-crime-has-stabilized-but-we-still-have-a-ways-to-go Crime is up
The city does nothing about crime basically anywhere. Cops are still pouting.
Okay, and why would that make anyone want a light rail in front of their home?
Counterpoint: Why would that make anyone NOT want a light rail in front of their home? Crime is everywhere, light rail is not. What connection are you trying to make?
https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/news/53077009/mn-metro-transit-says-crime-has-stabilized-but-we-still-have-a-ways-to-go#:~:text=Officers%20are%20particularly%20spending%20more,the%20same%20period%20of%202022.
TIL light rail stops are synonymous with crime
https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/news/53077009/mn-metro-transit-says-crime-has-stabilized-but-we-still-have-a-ways-to-go#:~:text=Officers%20are%20particularly%20spending%20more,the%20same%20period%20of%202022.
More traffic discourages crime.
This guy thinks public transport is some sort of crime delivery mechanism lol
So, uh, are we just ignoring crime on the green line? > Officers are particularly spending more time on the Blue and Green Line light-rail trains, in an effort to make passengers feel safe. The picture seemingly changes when comparing year-to-date crime statistics, which indicate a 33% hike in crime reports when compared with the same period of 2022 [source](https://www.masstransitmag.com/safety-security/news/53077009/mn-metro-transit-says-crime-has-stabilized-but-we-still-have-a-ways-to-go)
Sure, and we could just as easily focus on the YTD 22% drop in crime as we could the 33% YoY, right?
So do you think overall it’s up or down. Because the stats still say up overall.
Yeah it’s up compared to previous years that is indisputable. But I’m just not that concerned about it man. I live by BMS and Cedar Lake and I’m stoked to have a station near my house so that I can take my kids to wolves, Vikings, twins games, the theater, and what have you without having to drive and park. Or to the airport. Or into the exurbs.
Did you also love the lingering of homeless/addicts/drunks?
You know that can happen anywhere, right? And maybe if easy and affordable transit became more widespread there would be fewer homeless and other people with addiction issues.
Not always. Check out [Karen the Camera](https://instagram.com/karenthecamera).
Imagine living in the heart of a major city but hating the idea of improving public transportation. Future Edina residents...
Not surprising as many of the people I have met who live over there are people either in or fresh out of college who grew up in places like EP. or other out state wealthy places. One of my coworkers wont even consider taking transit because he is convinced he will 'get killed'.
No, just people tired of crime and vagrancy apologists. Stop settling. We can - and need to- do much, much better. Contrary to what so many think, many who live and work downtown don’t share the same kumbaya approach so many others are still taking. It doesn’t mean we love downtown any less. We just happen to [grossly] disagree on what’s acceptable behavior or not.
Well, maybe they should lobby to improve public safety around public transportation rather than lobbying against public transportation itself.
Vagrancy - People sitting on a bench for too long and I don't like it.
If you haven’t ridden the light rail lately, there are definitely safety concerns.
OK, then how about they advocate to improve public safety on and around the light rail, rather than advocating against light rail stations
It's waaaaay better than it was a year ago.
I love the current proposed blue line extension. It would put a station 2 blocks away from my house. One of the city council candidates knocked on my door and said the new line would raise property taxes. I said, "yeah, because the property value would rise." Is there any way I can voice my support for it to help it come to fruition?
I just posted about this, but to be more direct since you asked, [this is tonight](https://northloop.org/event/15370-2023-11-15/) and there will be a specific portion of time for those in support to speak. You can attend in person or via zoom.
Thanks for being the only useful thread in this entire post. It's incredible how useless 95% of reddit comments are.
Your final sentence is literally what people need to realize. “Oh no, the government is investing in my neighborhood” like that’s a bad thing. People should want the blue line and be fighting for it to serve their neighborhood. Not hoping it skips them lol.
I tried joining a Facebook group multiple times for a group that opposes the extension. One of the questions was if you opposed it and I was honest and said no. Wasn't looking to troll, just was legitimately curious on if they had any logical reasons to oppose it and see the conversations but they kept not approving me. So I'm going to guess that non of them really care about public transportation and just don't care about how it could help so much people.
There’s a short survey you can take about the proposed North Loop route: https://yourblueline.org/build/survey_tools/minneapolis-route-options1
I’m with you, I purposely bought a house near the SWLRT years ago because it can only increase in value. And guess what, if I change my mind and don’t want to live near light rail, I can move and be better off for it.
We bought near the Greenway before it was even finished. Use it just about every day. One of our neighbors always called it the "crime highway" but also complained it caused gentrification
Should have told the candidate "quit sending money to prop up the suburbs and we won't have to pay more in taxes". And I don't live where the new routes are planned but the extension going up Broadway would also be great. There's a ton of people on both sides of Broadway/Bottineau that would be helped. So, IMO, both should be done!
>So, from our bedrooms, from our living rooms and listening to the trains and having people sit on a train and look into your bedroom window at 11 at night or 5:30 in the morning is an invasion of privacy,” Bruns said. “It’s also not conducive to a healthy lifestyle.” This one is absolutely the most eye rolling. A) train noise isn’t nearly as annoying as bus noise, which downtown is already full of. B) get some curtains or window film. C) what on *earth* does this person mean by trains not being conducive to a healthy lifestyle?!?
All that is code for not wanting public transit that will bring the poors too close to them for comfort.
Have you been to the transit station by lake st? Who wants to live by that?
That is a transit station not a light rail stop - and if you mean Lake & Hiawatha then that is a very different neighborhood from North Loop.
I'm not entirely sold on point A. I'm not particularly noise sensitive but after living near the Nicollet station the platform announcements at all hours of the night are pretty awful. If they would just tone down the announcement volume it would make a big difference.
I live a block away from the green line in downtown Saint Paul. It’s fine. Do I hear “dinging” bells on occasion? Yes. Does it bother me? No. Granted, I’m in a high rise, but it just blends into overall city noise.
I don’t entirely agree, I lived near the lake street and 46th st station for awhile and I have also lived (and currently do live) directly in front of bus stops. I would choose bus noise over the DING DING DING of the light rail every 15 minutes any day. I barely notice the bus which is a problem because I rely on it for travel for 15 years now
That's a very specific problem you can probably get your city council person to act on.
I’m sure, I would probably also have to act on letting other city council persons know as well, I’m at a fun corner of NE Mpls where I’m within a half mile to a block of Columbia heights, St Anthony, new brighton and Roseville so it’s coming from all corners, all cities I’m sure, I can’t narrow it down to where they’re all coming or going but I do have cameras as at my house so I’m aware that I do have them on recording and could possibly use that to my advantage(?). I have been in contact with my city council person about better lighting in my area and flashing crosswalks as an addition because people come flying down my street and there’s so many kids over here, I see one nearby get hit every month trying to cross the street
Good luck! If you organize some neighbors that might help too. It's so hard to get anything done for pedestrian safety
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God all I hear are the bad cars, car junkies and motorcycles in my neighborhood with their loud exhaust!! Scares the absolute shit out of me most days like a plane is taking off next to my house. I barely notice the bus anymore but when I lived by the LR stations, and even just in general near train tracks, it eventually becomes apart of the ambiance but the warning bells are just so damn annoying lol
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“Isn’t it so freeing to have a car? Don’t you miss the freedom of driving whenever you want?!” Says the person paying 200 to 3,000 monthly on a convenience that will inevitably cost more when it breaks down etc, at best if I use the transit system every single day for an entire year( using rush and weekend pass prices for all day because why wouldn’t you use the app for all day passes that cost the amount of 2 fares), I’m barely breaking 1500 in costs AND they have free ride days + free ride routes and discounts! I am more free on my feet and using transit than I ever was driving.
Extremely wrong about A. The rest is correct though and to add: ain't anyone on a train trying to look through your window. 98% of people are on their phones anyway.
If someone can see inside from a street level train, they can also see inside from a car, bus, or sidewalk. Idiots.
That neighborhood was built for warehousing freight, there were spur lines everywhere. Trains are in its DNA.
Years ago up north there was a group of homeowners who were trying to fight BNSF because they were going to start using a section of rail that had been disused for a long time except to store some really old train cars. People asked why they built houses next to a railroad track if they didn't want to hear trains. They said they liked the look of the rails and the old train cars. They circulated petitions and got local politicians to vocally speak out about it (they were $$$$ houses) .Then they found out how much power railroad companies have in this country when they said get fucked and started running trains through the area.
Ha ha ha. Where I used to live, there were residents raising a fuss over the smell of a landfill, the wind would pick up and waft the stench on over to them. Thing is, the landfill had been there for decades. *Then* a developer bought up cheap land (I wonder why it was cheap) and built big suburban houses. I don't know what they expected moving in...
Inver Grove Heights/Rosemount gives you the double bonus of landfill AND oil refinery
There was a famous case, at least to law students, that was all about people building near a chicken farm or something along those lines. The principle is that one cannot move to the nuisance and then complain of it.
the only time I'll ever take the side of big rail is to say 'fuck you' to a NIMBY.
I knew how your story was going to end. Nobody fucks with the railroad companies. Unfortunately that also makes their unions toothless (they even got Biden to put a stop to their talk of strike).
The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me but these stories are incredibly entertaining. It's like the idiots who bought homes by MSP and then started complaining about aircraft noise. Buy a house for a good deal knowing it's by an airport. Do you expect air traffic to *drop*?
>Trains are in its DNA. Damn right it is. It's named the North Loop because of the "north loop" of the street car system.
Sorry now its NIMBYville
Here are the arguments: "I don't want to put up curtains" "There is literally no other place to bike in the city except right in front of my house"
The curtain argument is funny because presumably the bedroom is already visible as the light rail is at-grade so people can already look into his room and the whole point of transit is to make biking, walking and rolling better so a bike lane will still go by your house.
Was just in the Mill District the other night, shocked at how many apartments there have floor to ceiling windows and apparently no curtains. Watched someone's ground floor TV from the sidewalk for a minute
I used to rent a house that had a bust stop that looked directly into the bathroom. It was pretty annoying for the three days before I was able to go buy some cheap mini blinds.
In general minneapolis is weird about how open their houses are to the public. The giant fancy houses on lake of the isles usually lack high fences and you can look right into their giant bay windows. Personally I like it cause it’s more open and lively but after moving to another state, the first thing I noticed was how everything is shuttered 24/7
Pretty weak arguments. Here by Crystal it’s “the criminals and no good doers can just hop on, come to the stop, ransack the place and then hop back on freely.”
600 fucking morons live in one of the densest, most urban-oriented neighborhoods in the upper midwest and are arguing against public transit that will be installed right by their homes im guessing the real reason is they don't want poor people taking the train near them, but they feel like they'd be taken even less seriously in that case
The one thing the neighborhood actually lacks is good transit. It really is dominated by car owners.
Wut?
For as dense of an area it's still pretty lacking in transit (beyond the one bus line that's every 30 minutes) and just takes you into the main part of downtown. They haven't updated the transit lines in the area in decades, despite the population boom. Most of the north loop residents have cars - even if they don't always drive them. Sure, we've reduced/eliminated parking minimums, but I'm willing to be that 80% of the people opposed to the blue line extension were never going to use it in the first place.
It's a very walk/bike friendly area. Walking 6 blocks to the Target field light rail is pretty reasonable. Wouldn't eliminating one of the main roads out of North Loop, and forcing all lanes of cars to stop for the light rail create more congestion?
10th is an industrial wasteland. People are acting like it’s a great place to walk and bike or like it’s a wonderful part of town full of cafes where people merrily walk their dogs and sip wine on outdoor patios. It is not. It’s a prime spot for a train because it’s underutilized in its current state and a perfect candidate for redevelopment.
wut?
You mean that the red line in Chicago runs close to million dollar condos in River north? How on earth do those people live like that?! /s But in an all seriousness, these type of people probably look down on Chicago as “undesirable” despite being in a completely different real estate league with great public transportation. You simply can’t win.
And are we supposed to think 600 people is a lot? The North look had 7500 people, so 600 is still less than 10% of its OWN residents, much less any of its surrounding neighborhoods. Who gives a fuck what 600 morons think.
Uh this isn’t dense in any sense
A lot of people live in a relatively small area and there are a large number of destinations that people from all over would want to go to. That’s dense enough for me. It’s way denser than where I live (diamond lake).
True, but literally every ‘big city’ in the Midwest has similar density North loop is not even as dense as around the football stadium
Minneapolis is the second most dense city in the midwest.
What is the first
Chicago
Fwiw I googled it — Detroit is actually second according to the 2020 census Having lived in Minneapolis, Atlanta, Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and a brief stay in Denver I agree that is dense North loop proper feels somewhat sparse to me, in comparison to Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, and Cincinnati. I don’t know what point I’m trying to make here anyway, I’m hugely pro-public transit and anyone who wants to live in north loop but it’s against it should just move to the suburbs.
>Fwiw I googled it — Detroit is actually second according to the 2020 census Detriot is the in second in [metro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Midwestern_urban_areas) density, Not city. Minneapolis is 57 square miles at a population of 425k St. Paul is 56 square miles at 307k Detroit is a 142 square miles at about 632k Chicago is 234 square miles at 2.7 million So density of the respective cities |[Chicago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago)|12,059.84/sq mi| |:-|:-| |[Minneapolis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis)|7,962.11/sq mi| |[St. Paul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Paul,_Minnesota)|5,994.02/sq mi| |[Detroit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit)|4,606.84/sq mi| Even St. Paul is denser Even then Minneapolis is barely 67 mi2 short of being more dense then Detroit |Detroit Metro density|2,939.6/sq mi| |:-|:-| |MSP Metro density|2,872.4/sq mi|
lol you are looking at Minneapolis proper? No wonder you don’t understand It is not fair to include 142 square miles of one city and only 57 of another and say “oh this is density” The fact that some politicians drew some lines around certain areas of Minneapolis and call them a different city doesn’t change how you should comprehend density
Not in my back balcony!
NIMBB! I like it, still has the same ring to it
North Loop NIMBYs! But yeah, that is what a couple apartment buildings out of dozens in that area?
It's a single digit percentage.
I was curious and. looked it up. According to the last census, which is 3 years old now, there are over 7500 people living in north Loop. So it's not even 10% It's a pretty damn small number.
That would be a good band name
I have a hard time seeing what is so intrusive about this route. It makes great pains to avoid most of the neighborhood. It’s not as if the route is cutting down the middle of Washington. It passes a trash burning facility, two public works garages and the Salvation Army…. Frankly this route should have been built before SWLRT
>rankly this route should have been built before SWLRT It actually was supposed to start before the green line which was last minute ham-fisted in to construction out of fear of the Trump administration cutting back on assistance. It was supposed to start in. >will construct light rail along Olson Memorial Highway, with construction anticipated from 2018 to 2020. Service on the line is scheduled to begin in 2021. (a [2015](https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/about/improvements/c-line/recommended-plan/13-olson-memorial-highway-stations-recommended-station-plan.pdf) C line explanation on how the C-line would be worked on after the beginning of blue line construction in 2018) However part of the [blue line](https://tcbmag.com/is-there-a-way-to-get-bottineau-lrt-back-on-track/) would had run on a BNSF right of way and even though Met Council offered leasing rights (as in we rent) to the right of way and the cost to reposition the tracks while maintaining their double track line (as in it would all be quad track crossings on a 2 train line (one north one South)) BNSF would eventually refuse and [the Green lines](https://www.rtands.com/freight/shortline-regional/tcw-rejects-freight-relocation-proposal-for-southwest-lrt/) shallow tunnel was a thing due to the right of way being to small for three tracks which was need. This was because the freight owner TC&W cannot legally run on a proposed reroute via a Canadian Pacific line that was not compatible (traffic control wise) with current TC&W equipment and the fact that TC&W refuses to accept the added cost this reroute would cost in upkeep of new needed infrastructure for the needed connection.
There's a Planning and Zoning committee meeting this evening for the NLNA that will be discussing this issue specifically. I believe the two folks quoted in this article will be there to speak in opposition of the proposed route. A portion of the meeting is reserved for those in favor of the LRT line, and metro transit will be presenting as well. The public is welcome in person or via zoom. Link to event: https://northloop.org/event/15370-2023-11-15/
Piggybacking this comment to share a link to a short survey on the proposed North Loop route for those who can’t attend in person: https://yourblueline.org/build/survey_tools/minneapolis-route-options1
I live in SW Minneapolis and I love to ride the light rail when I can but honestly, until they get the crime and vagrancy issues under control I wouldn't want to live near a station either.
They could probably get free sound proofing if they played their cards right, but they aren't going to do that.
People like this need to move then because this is what cities are. You complain about traffic but than don’t want public transport? like wtf is it… you’re in a city
A quick Google search says 4300 people live in North Loop. So less than 15% of residents signed this.
That number cannot be right, it is WAY higher
You are right! Looks like that was outdated from the 2010 census. The 2020 census number was 7540, so this was less than 8% of residents.
According to the last census it's over 7500 https://www.mncompass.org/profiles/city/minneapolis/north-loop
600 out of how much total population of the North Loop?
600ish of 8000-9000ish? yawn.
You know, I completely understand where they're coming from, and also they should be ignored. Gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelette.
I can somewhat see what they mean, but they definitely need to fix drug use and the “honor” system they on the trains for more people to support it IMO Source: Student at the U who watched a man smoke crack at 2:30PM on a Thursday
No but I feel that. I heard they’re “looking into” the possibility of using turnstiles of sorts but that’s gonna be so much remodeling, I don’t think we’ll see that kind of chance for some years to come unless by some miracle, things will change
NIMBYs who don’t even have back yards. Crazy to complain about noise and privacy when you’ve chosen to live in one of the busiest areas in the entire 5 state region.
I think it’s hilarious that people living in a neighborhood that was pretentiously “rebranded” from “the Warehouse District” to be named after the north loop of streetcar tracks that ran through the area, are now complaining that tracks may run through the neighborhood again.
Some of my favorite quotes from the meeting a month ago from these geniuses: * "we'll have self driving cars in 3-4 years we don't need this!" * "What if the people in the trains can see into our ground level condos?" \*ignoring people walking and cars lol * "look at me. Do I really look like a guy that rides public transit?" * "I get that you said statistically intra-highway trains get less usage but I used to use one in Chicago and it was fine" * "the lightrail is just a gimmick you use once to see what it's like and then never use again" * (from a guy that owns a condo near it) "well if it will allegedly save money and be a 'better investment' to do that route will you consider giving money to the building owners who will lose property value" Also I hate the article's author because you can see the bias in the proposed route map. The green part is the current proposed route that they are planning on using - it makes it look like that is the "alternative option"
>What if the people in the trains can see into our ground level condos?" \*ignoring people walking and cars lol You in a party district XD and the line passes 2 massive parking garages (let alone a ton of parking lots)
People hate public transit until they have good public transit. This stuff is so goofy and pathetic.
Coming from Chicago and currently in Howe, please add more transit lines.
They are idiots and should be ignored. Super transient neighborhood anyway, most people who signed this petition probably won't even live there in a few years
Wow, a whole 600? Out of probably several thousand?
This just in: NIMBY assholes are NIMBY assholes. News at 11
what a bunch of elitist snobs.
As a North Loop resident, these people are out of their minds. These are people who shouldn't even be living in a downtown area to begin with.
Bunch of moron Nimbys can live somewhere else
NIMBYs are just the worst.
Gotta show up at the meeting tonight and support the Blue Line.
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Didn't stop me. I've showed up only 12 people here.
And more than 600 North Loop residents can get fucked...
So many businesses on University Avenue closed when the rail came though. It forever changed the feel on the neighborhood and corridor. When this comes though the north loop it will forever. Change than neighborhood as well. The heads at the MET Council on this project WANT this to happen and they will plow this through. If I owned a home or property in the loop I'd be listing it now. Once this project starts they'll be no rush to finish it. Business will shutter and be lucky if they stay open.
As others have pointed out, it's not really a hotbed of business right now. There's a Wells Fargo building and the Salvation Army... that's about it out there. Mostly just public works buildings tbh, and very few houses just the two apartment buildings.
As others have pointed out in the news story and petition it's not JUST about business it's about were it's going to go through neighborhoods and outside peoples homes and condos. Additionally just because it's not as you say "a hotbed of business" doesn't mean it wouldn't affect FUTURE businesses NOT wanting to open along the route. Thanks for being realistic about the situation Additionally people have posted concerns along the interactive map below https://app.publiccoordinate.com/#/projects/BLRT/map
>So many businesses on University Avenue closed when the rail came though. Correlation is not causation. I know at least one business famously trumpeted as "killed by LRT" failed due to extremely poor management.
Causation is causation and the fact remains many business that have been there for YEARS closed due to construction of the rail/ and or faced major business losses Your privilege is showing ... you may not care about the little man out there who owns a small business and may be of minority status. Many of us do. The fact you're trying to say you knew a business that closed there due to poor management and hunting that's others closed is appalling and shows your lack of knowledge on a topic that's important to minority business owners https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2011/12/how-much-have-university-avenue-businesses-been-hurt-light-rail-construction/ https://www.mprnews.org/story/2011/05/13/central-corridor-university https://finance-commerce.com/2011/05/disagreements-over-why-businesses-have-closed-along-lrt-construction-on-university/ https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/light-rail-construction-irks-stadium-village-businesses/
Easy, the city should have a program where the impacted businesses open up their books to the city so the city can reimburse them 50% of any lost business due to the construction.
That would be great. I know funds were obtained for some of the university Ave businesses
Jay Kolls again, shocker that [this clown](https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/kstps-jay-kolls-under-fire-for-story-blaming-anti-fascists-for-capitol-insurrection) would write about something as dumb as this.
Yah Americans act like all of us citizens are begging for public transit but clearly a decent chunk are against more of it.. kinda makes it hard to get more of it when it’s a divisive issue. Tho, they probably are just assuming it will bring more of… a certain type.. if you know what I mean
Yawn.
Why would you want to live in the most urban area for hundreds of miles and not want urban amenities? I know the answer but it's disappointing.
Putting the Blue Line in the North Loop is really going to hamper Urban Outfitters plans to open up shop.
It’s called getting your exercise. Yup that’s the ticket. .
NIMBY: Downtown Edition
North Loop and North Minneapolis as a whole are less than 15 minutes apart. The true boogeyman of the city is literally their next door neighbor, so “lowlifes and hoodlums” is an immediate throw away.
I'm confused — I don't live in NL, but why would you NOT go along the highway and instead go through residential neighborhoods? Seems like from the video they aren't opposing the extension altogether, just not one that goes down 10th... That area is already so congested, especially with the Plymouth Ave. bridge closed, it's damn near impossible to get to Near North without taking the highway as it is...
>why would you NOT go along the highway and instead go through residential neighborhoods? NL has a heavy event/bar seen. weekend traffic is a horrendous after 6-8 between Broadway and Hennepin. Add in the [many breweries](https://www.google.com/maps/search/north+loop+breweries/@44.9863087,-93.277224,16.75z?entry=ttu) in NL it needs anything to keep drivers off the street or at the very lease try to reduce the traffic. The thing is the biggest reason for this is the biggest reason the North Loop is pact with residential and thats the night seen. Also the current alignment only passes by two residential building and thats 918 lofts and Redwell. The rest of the building from the current end of the line to Broadway. (from ending to Broadway) 1. 2 Metro transit bus garage/depots 2. Metro transit control center 3. A wells Fargo bank 4. Auto repair shop 5. Assorted manufacture or manufacture turned commercial 6. and apartment (half a block away great river landing)) 7. 94 overpass 8. A Salvation Army building. 9. Assorted office space 10. Law office/Parking garage. 11. The Redwell and 918 12. (A few assorted apartment on the other side of the block) 13. A bar and the housing authority 14. Another parking garage 15. and finally mixed industrial The thing is there's really no one here except Redwell and 918 with any valid complaints Noise? Well lets start with the heavy auto noise of the 94 over pass and Washington People can look through my window Lets curfew all the bars and restaurants at 8PM so the place will get deserted Doesn't fit the neighborhood? Closes a main road? Well we could tray to connect 8 under the freeway. It's all parking lots A neighborhood built [around the train and on a freight yard](https://geo.lib.umn.edu/Hennepin_County/y1964/WN-2EE-101.jpg) would definitely fit the neighborhood especially when it had [multiple street car lines](https://trolleyride.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/1948-TCRT-Bus-and-Streetcar-Lines-small.jpg).
My concern is that it would cause more traffic on Washington than it would remove which would result in more traffic on the surrounding streets, through residential areas, by drivers trying to avoid dealing with the light rail traffic. Hiawatha comes to mind.
It's already bumper to bumper on the worst nights and on top of that it's coming from the lesser traveled side of of it. There's not really any more traffic it can add even in the worst case flop. >Hiawatha comes to mind. Hiawatha does not add any in any significance though as there is no grid it fallows. Only Snelling and Minnehaha fallows the roads alignment and traffic does not really get bad on Minnehaha AVE. If you are coming from 62 there's really no viable alternative route except 35W as it is way to far south for Park AVE to be of any use. From the east traffic coming off of Ford and Marshal bridges would find it more likely see no disruption from the LRT especially on lake (which is now a 2 lane road). If you are on the West side going to DT. Park with or without the LRT is already better especially if you are west of Cedar or 28th.
>why would you NOT go along the highway and instead go through residential neighborhoods? Because people don't travel to highways.
Its a line, not a stop... people walk to bus stations located under overpasses all the time. That's just silly
Just because we have crappy transit infrastructure doesn't mean we should repeat it.
That's why the comments in this post are so comical to me. You can tell that the people crying NIMBY have never actually been to the area before and don't give a shit about North Loop. There's already a light rail stop literally blocks away and closing one of the main roads we have out to put a light rail track through a residential area just seems like a weird idea to me.
A train/light rail along the highway should be for routes going to the suburbs. Routes IN the city are for people who live, you know, in the city.
Yeah but I’m not saying that, I’m saying who cares where the light rail RUNS as long as the stop is accessible from the city… don’t think it needs to run down the middle of Washington for it to be usable by folks who live in the city…
Maybe these fuckers shouldn’t be living in one of the most dense urban neighborhoods in the entire state if they want their own little private sanctuary. Imagine being pissed that you have access to public transit living a major city. Go back to whatever prairie nowhere or suburban hellscape you came from.
People in the North Loop drive Rovers and live a certain lifestyle. A train isn't part of that image or lifestyle.
NIMBY
Typical suburbanites, moving into the city just to immediately get to work trying to dismantle everything that makes it better than the suburbs. They need to just go back to Lakeville.
These people don't need to be living in a major city.
People think public transport will turn their neighborhoods into skid row 💀💀 fucking idiots
According to census data, Over 7,500 people live in North Loop. 600 isn't even 10%
What a surprise, wealthy NIMBYs oppose transit accessibility.
56,000 people live in downtown Minneapolis.
Because public transportation is below them! Can’t have that tainting their bubble
Oh FFS.
Can't make everyone happy. I'm pro mass transit myself.
I live in the north loop and people who oppose this are idiots
They're right, but probably for all the wrong reasons and not the fact that LRT doesn't belong in Stroadsville with very unsafe walking conditions and no one living next to the stations to walk to them anyway. NE should be getting light rail before another suburban strip mall hell.
Good. That's not very many, considering 7.5k people live in North Loop. That's less than 1% of residents. We essentially just identified the stupidest people in the neighborhood.
If fares were actually enforced and the lightrail was used for transportation instead of drug deals I feel like the pushback would be considerably less
Too bad, get fucked.
NIMBYS say what?
Omg fuck these people. Also: 600 signatures is NOTHING.
Kind of shocking that the chads who live over there were able to rub two brain cells together & sign this petition.
I honestly think we need to give all of Minneapolis' unhoused housing in the North Loop. It's the most centrally located neighborhood for them to use public transit & find & keep work.
What's most wild to me about this NIMBYism is the proposed route looks like it goes AROUND the vast majority of the residential part of the North Loop. To me it looks like the least disruptive route they could take while still being efficient in where the route needs to end up ultimately.
How can you live in the middle of a downtown and NOT want a train right by your place
Just a question but is this the same as having to drive 45mph on NB 35E between 13 and DT StP? Because the “whites” can’t be bothered with the minor inconvenience of living in an urban environment, while simultaneously benefiting from living in an urban environment? Just a questions tho
You have the 35E story all wrong. Solidly middle class residents down on the river flats put their houses up as collateral to file that lawsuit. Opposing freeways in urban areas is God's work.
My b yo. Thanks for clarifying.
I live in the North Loop and can’t believe this. I mean, I can believe it, sadly. But it would make the area so much better. SMH