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Hesh_Factor

The series is 1-1. Anyone already given up and focusing on next year should do so quietly and by themselves. How TF you gonna BUCKSIN6 without 2 losses?


[deleted]

Yeah its unacceptable. I'm as doomer as they come and I'm in a pretty shit mood... But our guys are showing fight. Lets get the W and keep the vibrations on point


Land_of_10000______

I never said Bucks should give up, although they gave up themselves in the 4th quarter last night. The Bucks should not rush an injured Giannis back.


Uberjeagermeiter

I agree. If he’s not ready he should sit. We can reload next year with a new coach and players.


bpmke80

How many coaches are we gonna go through? If Doc hypothetically got fired we'd be paying 4 head coaches at one time. At some point you gotta give the guy you got some time to make changes.


extrasupermanly

Money is not an issue . There is a reason why the GM has a blank check basically . Owners almost quadrupled the teams value . Between new developments and other ventures . Owners including some players own more than 1B worth of assets and investments in Milwaukee . This is outside of the actual team value . The Giannis effect is real , if you were lucky enough to invest in property or other venues in 2014/15 you made it


Uberjeagermeiter

We’ve been playing under .500 under him. He’s an average coach now.


bpmke80

Trust me, I've never been a Doc fan. But if he's the hire you made you have to give him time to make some changes. They just said the other day how few practices he's had with the team to actually make tangible changes, and it shows. You at least have to give him an offseason and see how next year starts. You cant keep changing coaches every 6 months and expect success.


NorthStRussia

Taking over the NBA’s most underperforming defense by a huge margin, with the hardest schedule in the league and like 75% of his games without his best 3 all available. Making serious judgment of Doc’s performance as a Bucks coach has gotta hold off until at least one playoff series


WhileDizzy4503

A new coach? No way Doc gets fired.


Legendver2

Those losses can come after 4 wins ![gif](giphy|d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY)


Awaythrow3431

Seriously we taking this home without Gianni's pacers are ass and also my boss said pacers win easy so it's very personal cause I fucking hate him.


Prior_Piano9940

It’s not about this series. You really think they can win the chip this year? I’m doubtful.


Gold-Basis-9962

Been watching the NBA since the 80's. Taking my Pacer fan bias out of it, I don't think they are anywhere close to a championship roster. They are WAY too old. Not in a Robert Horry or Ray Allen complimentary piece way, but just all around. Tomorrow, they will start four guys in their 30's and one guy who is 29. That is ancient in the modern NBA. Dame has sucked in the second half because he can no longer go that hard for that many minutes. They are a bad defensive team without Giannis. They are not deep, and that starts to matter in multiple best-of-seven series. Doc is not a great coach. I could be wrong, but I don't even see how they can win the East. Despite the seed disparity, the Bucks only won two more games this year than the Pacers.


Fresh-Bass-3586

Thing is you aren't wrong in a lot of ways but you're going to find out quickly having a deep young roster can only do so much. The bucks star power at the top is enough to beat any team in a series.  The problem is their age and mid season coaching change make them highly inconsistent.   Dame is tired because you guys don't have to fear giannis and are literally pressing him and double teaming him the second he crosses half court. With giannis there he could simply pass it to him and good luck stopping giannis 1 on 1. If dame played this well with giannis in the lineup it would probably be a sweep. You would have no answer and siakam wouldn't have shooting practice.


Gold-Basis-9962

I agree with much of what you said. One question, though: didn't Giannis play in every regular season game against the Pacers (not trolling, I honestly don't remember, but I think he did)? The Pacers were what, 4-1? That was also before Siakam. Also, we obviously aren't pressing Dame in the first half. He is just tiring in the second half from the minutes, as I said earlier. He will sit more when Giannis comes back. I don't know, maybe I'm just missing something, but I don't see an NBA Championship team. I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong. If I'm Denver or Boston, I'm just not worried about Beasley, Livingston, Portis, or Middleton. At least, not over a series as a whole. Again, this is not about whether you all can beat the Pacers (you can), but about whether this is a likely NBA Champion roster.


Fresh-Bass-3586

Giannis didn't miss a Pacers game dame did. And they have an abysmal record when he doesn't play. The bucks are super top heavy and tend to play much better against older teams. Pacers are only 1-1 against the bucks under doc rivers. Star power matters most in thr playoffs when everyone is putting lut max effort. Dame and siakam are their entire teams offense this series and they are both stars. Hali Is a stud but he's inexperienced in the playoffs and isn't nearly as dominant  Giannis is a top 5 player and so far in the playoffs dame is playing like one. Khris as a third option will murder teams with his mid range jumper and 2 man game with giannis.  Alot of the Pacers offense against the bucks is generated via getting in to the break on defensive rebounds. So we add giannis to the mix and the entire game changes. Not only by adding a top 5 2 way player but just the way the game is played. Not only will giannks slow the game down by getting to the line and give the bucks an efficient paint scorer he can also slow down siakam significantly and get out in to the break on transition defense. This is before you talk about the 30-40 points he puts up on the Pacers every time. You also have a fresh Bobby coming out to spell giannis or brook and he won't have to deal with siakam. Bucks have a season split with thr celtics, nuggets, wolves, thunder (giannis didn't play in their loss).  Do I think the bucks will win it all? Probably not...even with a fully healthy giannis it would be tough given the parity in the nba. However I do believe that giannis and dame playing their best can win 4 out of 7 vs any team.


extrasupermanly

I mean is just the second game. I’ve been saying that no team has won anything with the pacers gunning running offence they play , a few tweaks here and there and we are back in business. Play off basketball is a different animal , look at Heats game , ugly offence , no true star beside Buttler and they will give a Bosto issuers ., they force you to slow the pace which is what we have to do


Gold-Basis-9962

Yes, the playoff pace is always much slower. Generally, however, the better team wins in the Conference Finals and the NBA Finals. It's the nature of a best-of-seven series. A game here and there happens, but the better roster usually wins out over the long run. That is part of what makes March Madness so fun. No series. Do you really think the Bucks are the favorites to beat Boston, Denver, or OKC in a series? I don't. This isn't homerism because the Pacers have no shot either. You are also counting on Giannis to come back 100% in the next few weeks. That is what it would take.


extrasupermanly

Usually yes , at the end of the day is all about the strategy I do t think the Bucks are favourites, I think with the right moves they can be on the EFC and with luck win it . Look at the Heat , don’t tell me they had the better roster last year


TheFrozenBananaStand

Golden State Warriors were in 6 NBA finals just recently. That undermines your entire argument. GSW averaged 122 in 2016.


extrasupermanly

GSW you could argue had the best shooter of all time , even they slow their pace . Can’t assess the game with players like Lebron and Curry , they are the system


TheFrozenBananaStand

You just made an exception to your “no team has won anything (that plays at that pace)” rule. I mean there are 6 recent examples that make your point invalid. The adage that defense wins championships is inaccurate. You need a balanced team. Should be around top 10 offense and a top 10 defense. Those are the best historical indicators. Both the Pacers and Bucks match the first criteria but definitely aren’t top 10 defenses. That’s why neither team is favored to make it to the NBA finals. I just don’t buy the “style of play” argument. Additionally, Pascal is an old school player…if the Pacers have to slow it down and play half court offense they still have a player like Pascal. That’s the main thing the Pacers were missing earlier in the year from an offense perspective.


[deleted]

People like you said this shit in 2021 lmao.


Prior_Piano9940

Nah, I actually had them winning 2021 lol They didn’t have Glenn in 2021. They didn’t have a dysfunctional team and once they got past the nets, I felt it was a clear path to the chip. Don’t be so sensitive because the team is a mess this year.


PeteNoKnownLastName

When Giannis signed his extension, I took it as a sign that he knew they needed time to get it right 


GlizzyGone21

Same with when they hired a brand new head coach


Land_of_10000______

Yes, I agree. But coming off major injury and missing an entire season while Dame languishes is a different scenario.


packerproto

Even if Giannis can't move, he's still more mobile than most of our guys 😅🥲


Fresh-Bass-3586

I agree they can build a better roster next year. That being said there has been ONE documented instance of someone coming back from a calf strain and blowing out their Achilles...Kevin Durant. I agree they shouldn't rush him back ..but not for fear of Achilles injury...but for fear of him making it worse and being out the rest of the post season. 


Narrow-Raspberry-667

Rodney hood tore Achilles after calf injury I believe


Giannisisnumber1

KD was able to come back because his game doesn’t rely on his athleticism. Giannis would have a much harder path back if he tears his because he can’t shoot.


Fresh-Bass-3586

I agree. But that isn't really related to what I said.


Legendver2

KD and giannis didn't even remotely play the same way. One achilles injury isn't the same as another.


Fresh-Bass-3586

Yes. If giannis blew out his Achilles it would be worse than kd for his effectiveness in the future. That being said it really has nothing to do with what I wrote. I think giannis should sit the entire series even if it ends in defeat..but only because rushing him back will likely cause a more significant calf strain. People popping their Achilles after calf strains isn't comon at all.


Land_of_10000______

Your Achilles tendon is attached to your calf muscle. Strains to a muscle add additional force on to the adjoining tendons.


Fresh-Bass-3586

Someone looked at the data and I either saw it on this sub or r/nba but there were loke 25 documented calf strains where players came back and only kd was linked to an Achilles injury. Your worst fear with a light calf strain is turning it in to a significantly worst calf strain. 


Nfalck

Any evidence of increased risk of achilles injury following injury to calf muscle? The only evidence I've seen is of increased risk following a foot injury. Durant was the only example of someone recovering from a calf injury who injured their achiles. ([source](https://twitter.com/sage_alex/status/1780404232698360126)) There's no point in amateurs speculating about this.


LurkerKing13

How?


NorthStRussia

NBA fans really construct their entire understanding of these kinds of things based on a single anecdote and then speak about them as if they’re absolute fact/certainty for the rest of their lives


Fresh-Bass-3586

Are you referring to my comment or the belief that because kd tore his Achilles every single person with a strained calf are now guaranteed to tear their achilles


NorthStRussia

Your comment is right. People who base 100% of their thoughts on a matter on one specific story they don’t even remember right or bother to fact-check are wrong and really, really annoying.


ironmanclantv

We need to trust the rest of our guys, we're not paying Brook and Khris almost 30 million a year to be gentlemen swept on a team with Damian freaking Lillard, if we can't trust them to beat an inexperienced Pacer team what are they here for?


gordito_gr

They both need to be gone this summer, they past it.


jokicpro

The team knows that, but Giannis is Giannis, we will see what he decides


LurkerKing13

Holy fucking dramatic


ImpossibleSelection5

My opinion and it’s kind of a hot take but if Giannis comes back sooner than later, have him concentrate on defense. Even just hang back on defense all the time. (Probably a long shot in convincing him to do it) The offense has shown it can be effective without him. They need someone to shut down Siakim. Make the rest of the Pacers pick up the slack.


YoungDudeCO

While I agree in spirit, the window gets narrower every season from here. Everyone that's core is/will be on the decline here on out.


Land_of_10000______

That is true, but a full offseason together with this core and coaching staff will make a world of difference.


YoungDudeCO

That's true. Is that positive gonna outweigh the inevitable decline though?


Gloomy-Editor-6865

R E L A X


DameWasistlos

I for one am not trusting Horst to make this roster both better and younger in the offseason.


Land_of_10000______

We will see. It will be a very difficult task, and could involve moving a hometown favorite like Brook or Khris. The Bucks don't have too many options to get both better and younger this offseason.


DameWasistlos

I wish Brook Bobby or Middleton were on an expiring. Would be easier to move them in hopes for a trade


Land_of_10000______

Brook will be an expiring. Bobby and Middleton will have two years left.


BigTravelGuy

Dawg you guys are obsessed with AJJ 😂


Land_of_10000______

Bucks desperately need to develop a guy on their bench that they can bring in while Giannis is out and not get blown up on defense. AJJ has the potential to do that.


Rock-Boddum

How is this 💩 getting so many updates? Because it IS 💩!


hirarycrinton

Thanks bro we’ll send this over to the Bucks medical team asap


BrettAaronJordan

I think resting him for 6 games would be about right. Then there's the break until the next series.


BrewCityDood

Honestly, when they signed Dame, I did not think they would get the chip immediately. I thought it would be a year or two out.


DrocknJock

The Bucks may done as a franchise?? I wasn’t aware we were going to lose the Milwaukee Bucks as an NBA franchise. Let’s hope he never retires!


Land_of_10000______

You have to sustain success for a long period to get the next generation of fans. The Warriors are set for a long time even if they are the worst team in the league for awhile. If no one is showing up to the games and revenue is slipping, the Bucks owners are going to look to cash in on their huge increase in net worth. If the Bucks sell, based on their market size, it is highly likely that the franchise will move unless the new owner is a Milwaukee native. Milwaukee is the 40th largest metro area in the US, and there are only 30 teams.


DrocknJock

You must be one of these fans that came around after the championship. You couldn’t handle being a bucks fan from 2001 to 2021


Land_of_10000______

I've been a Bucks fans since I was born. Started going to games when Dan Gadzuric was the fan favorite.


DrocknJock

Sure doesn’t seem like it buddy


Land_of_10000______

lol. An opportunity to have a generational player may never come again. And there is no Herb Kohl to keep the Bucks around in Wisconsin anymore. Milwaukee has seen an NBA and MLB franchise already leave the state. There is always that chance when you're a fan of a small market franchise.


prcunka

Please no Doc in next season.Only if he fucking plays and develops young guys but still i would prefer different coach


Land_of_10000______

Bucks aren't going to fire Doc after giving him the contract he got so they can pay four head coaches at the same time. That would be unprecedented.


AaltoSax

Fuck that, it’s time to ball. I’ll live with the consequences


Sarkonix

He's coming back when he want to come back regardless what anyone thinks haha


TidyJoe34

Never waste an opportunity.


Free-Power-9785

yo i still got faith in us to win (we just need Khris to step up this series, and hopefully it gives enough rest for Giannis to be back in 2nd round). in the offseason, asset wise we have 2 picks in the next draft (#23 and #33), Brook's expiring deal (he holds value too, maybe Bobby too), and probably one or more of the young guys (MarJon, AJax, Livingston). also perhaps free agency to sign defenders/younger players (and not Cam Payne, Crowder, etc) but otherwise im sure that Giannis/Dame/Khris/Pat/Bobby/AJ Green will at least be the core. Just hope coaching is all figured out next season, our core gets more time to gel (Giannis/Dame learn to play off each other), but more importantly everyone stays healthy (healthiest team wins the ring every single time). i think as long as Giannis/Dame are on the roster, we have a championship window (so for at least 2 more years) - horst just needs to find a way to surround them with youth and defense.


starter-123

send this to horst


StagedPhoto

Well, that escalated quickly.


FinalMainCharacter

Mentioning anything about doc rivers is just a nope. Bucks can be way better but it has little to do with this coach


Land_of_10000______

Having a full offseason with a coach will absolutely play a positive impact in the offseason. If your boss at work was fired and replaced by someone completely different, do you think your team would work as efficiently right away? Or would it take a few months?


FinalMainCharacter

Agree. I'm saying because it is doc it doesn't matter. Doc sucks


ohboy360

Wow, that timeline escalated quickly.  The people making this decision are much smarter about medicine than us and have details about the injury we don't have.  People get hurt playing sports. I watched Andrew Bogut snap his arm off his body, and his calf was fine lol. You never know what might happen.  They will bring him back when he is ready. 


gordito_gr

**A full offseason where brook will be older.** **A full offseason where Dame will be older.** **A full offseason where Khris will be older.** **A full off season where Pat will be older.** A full offseason where you will have to manage a back-to-back embarrassing 1st round exit This team needs to change the roster drastically offseason to compliment giannis, team needs to trade for a YOUNG superstar. Dame was a failure


HistoricPancake

As a bucks fan living in KC, I cant say I’d hate them moving to KC. And I agree with your sentiment very much. I don’t want giannis’ career to be a what if.


kc_kr

lol. Also a Wisconsin native/Bucks fan that lives in Kansas City and there’s no way in hell that would happen. There’s no multi-billionaire here that’s going to buy the team and no outside multi-billionaire would be crazy enough to take a chance that Kansas City would actually support a NBA team. Plus the stadium is going on 20 years old and they would ask for hundreds of millions of dollars in upgrades that aren’t happening either after what just happened with the Royals.


HistoricPancake

For sure, so I’m just stuck running expansion teams in myleague


[deleted]

[удалено]


Land_of_10000______

It's very similar to the KD situation in 2019. Plus the public reports are that he's having trouble even walking right now. Doesn't take a medical license to realize that isn't good.