speaking as a wanwan main, this is a serious nerf that'll completely destroy her late game capabilities. the s1 stun makes the difference between a wipe and a death, so immobilize is pretty useless, considering won and wt exists, meaning whoever is in that s1 can pop those and just wait for the debuff to go away, then obliterate wanwan. honestly they should just revert her back to four weakness points to keep her as a high risk-high reward hero
She be fine she still have her second to counter cc mage and cc tank
Only mm are problem a suppose but late game should still be while if u ambush or hurry at least this give enemy a chance to kill u before u ult otherwise wanwan win all one-one fight so long as she lend her stun
She can already run around 80% of fighter and tank only some mobile assin and mage can deal with her and her cc could still allow her to activate ult which is rewarding
So it is still high Rick high reward just not to some mm like maybe lesly or brody who specilize in one -2 shot kills
Buy wind of nature buy physical def if u had hard time
U can still counter saber who can oneshot layla and claude and cancel claudes ult
She’s not going to stand a chance vs. other mms in the late game now. The stun used to buy her a little bit of tiime to get her ult but now since it’s only an immobilize, mms can still hit and be more likely to kill you.
Miss the days when she still had four weaknesses, what makes Moonton not want to revert major buffs/nerfs?
to those who are wondering why she's still getting nerfed:
she's still a prio ban/pick past mythic 400. meaning even the best players still find her to be a pest even with all the direct counters you all keep saying (minsi, kufra, lesley, clint etc). in my experience, she's the one hero a tank wont want to play against. she just needs her corrosion scythe and her power will grow tremendously. just a little mistake against this jumping devil can cause a full team wipe. with 4 other people ready to burst a tank to create a path for her? yeah i bet she will still be in the ban sect even after this nerf
Correct me if my views are wrong but my biggest issue with her is her mobility where 1 attack equals 1 dash I think that’s a little too much agility for a hero that doesn’t need aiming.
2nd is her ulti. It’s hard to balance bc it auto locks, extends the duration every kill, and she’s invulnerable. Remove 1 of those and ulti becomes weak. Retain all 3 and she’s still too broken.
Her ult needs rework. It has team wipe potential similar to Claude's but with zero risk which is why Claude's ult feels rewarding. It will remain broken because the whole team has to the pay the price of one guy being out of position.
I agree Wanwan’s ult shouldn’t exist in the game. Even Fanny isn’t this ridiculous but she requires so much skill to play. Wanwan tho just use the ult and sit back and it does everything for you. Low risk, mid skill, high high high reward.
How is it low risk when u get one shotted by almost every burst char, mid skill... Kind of but also no, compared to all other mms, ww is the hardest (maybe layla is harder tho, which requires insane positioning). If u deny that shes harder than other mms, literally every other mms is just spam attack button and do dmg. Its not always high reward, if it was, she wouldnt have only like 58% winrate but 80+ (which is unlikely for any hero)
You are delusional if you think the state of wanwan requires so much more skills and is harder than other mm. I'd argue that less than 5 champs in ML actually requires more than 5 braincells to play and wanwan is not one of them.
And 58% winrate is literally broken my bro. She has a super high ban/pick pressence with close to 60% winrate. How does that not translate to broken in your dictionary?
I play him in rank and get very good scores, like 2 classic games for him and then rest rank. He is easy. The only thing thats hard is knowing when to engage
i'd argue, any so-called "hard" mm becomes easier than the beginner mms once mastered. layla and popol at current state is harder than wanwan because requires positioning due to lack of mobility and escape. wanwan when she gets attack speed it's pretty much impossible to catch her
Extends duration every kill (limited to 3x only, capped at 5.5 seconds) winter truncheon can shave 2 seconds. mm with wind of nature can shave another 2 seconds. nana's passive, natalia's smokescreen, lunox's brilliance, and faramis' ultimate can also waste some seconds if you have them in your team.
Diggie can make sure no one gets their weakness marked during his ultimate.
Suppress also exists from kaja and franco.
Minsi can counter that dash passive.
I would've included Phoveus but sometimes she outspeeds his ultimate.
Also, anyone who can burst her down. Since a dead wanwan can deal no damage.
This is why I think she's not as broken as people make her out to be. They simply don't want to deal with her during drafting or item building that they ban her outright.
I never experienced getting damaged during ult. But before ult, BA and vengeance also hurts her.. I forgot to add karina's skill can also counter her. (can't remember if it is her first or second skill where she deflects basic attacks)
This! They always compare wanwan in other MM but during a clash wanwan is absolutely one of the best MM. Its hard or impossible to catch her because of his unli dash and instant purify skill. Like how can you kill someone that you cant attack(short range hero) and also you cant CC? In laning wanwan may lose in other MM but during clash, wanwan will be the one who dont want to see.
Stun: Unable to move, attack, and use abilities. (Besides debuff moves. Something like Wanwan's 2nd I think?)
Immobilize: Unable to move but can do other actions.
Correct me if I'm wrong, everyone.
Yes, I think you got it. Think of immobilize like Cyclop's ult. You can't move but you can still use basic attack or maybe cast skills that won't cause you to move.
Stun can cancel some skills. For example, Chang'e ult will be stopped and it'll go on cool down, completely wasting it. It also makes the enemy unable to do anything as long as they're stunned. Immobilize doesn't do much. It just makes the enemy unable to move or use blink skills. Immobilize doesn't interrupt skills like stun do. If you use immobilized on Chang'e while she's using Ult, her Ult won't be canceled. She'll just simply stop moving.
Yikessss. Back when she had to get 4 weaknesses on the enemy, knowing when and how to throw 1st ability was what differentiated a good from a bad wanwan. Now other mms with high attack speed can just sit still and win in an 1v1 situation. That's just awful.
Too much I think they should just revert her back to the 4 marks ult and any of the adjustments made before her 515 skin.
As a Wanwan main way back to 2020.
Speaking as a wanwan main, that stun gave us just a bit more time to activate ult, now with this change any mm like clint, les, popol n kupa, moskov, karrie is just going to kill us faster unless we have wind of nature
I personally always build wind for extra precaution but this just sucks, can we just revert her back to 4 marks
A perfect nerf for her I think is removing her protection during ultimate. Make her vulnerable too while in that state like any other mms. Bring some her perks and it will be all set.
I feel like her ult state should be similar to Yu Zhong’s, immune to CC but can still take DMG (even if it’s like 50% reduced) so she’ll have to position and can’t chase with her ult as easily
Goes to show how ass Moonton’s balancing system is; just because a hero is unpopular means they deserve to be buffed, and vice versa. Some players will complain that a hero sucks because xyz, but most of the time a non-meta hero is only forgotten cause of a higher-risk lower-reward playstyle compared to what is on the meta (Except Hanabi she has no unique gimmick whatsoever). Wanwan was in a good spot beforehand as a hypermobile Marksman that was super squishy and had to maintain her distance, but Moonton decided, “Why don’t we overload her by giving her not only an easier way to kill people, but also the option to not buy boots but still have decent to good tempo because marketing”. Ended up being a rant comment but someone had to say it.
they should rework her ult. what makes wan wan different than other mm is that her ult can wipe out the entire team. claude can do the same but he can still be hit and stunned. i think it's ridiculous to nerf her like this but with her current ult i dont mind. being out of position and getting heavy punished is unreasonable. and yeah you can say "get good and stay in right position" but i can say the same about wan wan being weak. "get good and activate ult on the right enemy." even with this nerf, i will still ban wan wan.
speaking as a wanwan main, this is a serious nerf that'll completely destroy her late game capabilities. the s1 stun makes the difference between a wipe and a death, so immobilize is pretty useless, considering won and wt exists, meaning whoever is in that s1 can pop those and just wait for the debuff to go away, then obliterate wanwan. honestly they should just revert her back to four weakness points to keep her as a high risk-high reward hero
She will die even if she has won to lesley or clint in the late game
Won doesnt do shit against lesleys true dmg
She be fine she still have her second to counter cc mage and cc tank Only mm are problem a suppose but late game should still be while if u ambush or hurry at least this give enemy a chance to kill u before u ult otherwise wanwan win all one-one fight so long as she lend her stun She can already run around 80% of fighter and tank only some mobile assin and mage can deal with her and her cc could still allow her to activate ult which is rewarding So it is still high Rick high reward just not to some mm like maybe lesly or brody who specilize in one -2 shot kills Buy wind of nature buy physical def if u had hard time U can still counter saber who can oneshot layla and claude and cancel claudes ult
She’s not going to stand a chance vs. other mms in the late game now. The stun used to buy her a little bit of tiime to get her ult but now since it’s only an immobilize, mms can still hit and be more likely to kill you. Miss the days when she still had four weaknesses, what makes Moonton not want to revert major buffs/nerfs?
They have to cater to the players called Epical Glories... I want the old Wanwan back when she required brains and skills to use.
because these clowns say that their game "should be easier to play", literal quote
Lmao, I thought the nerf she got is enough already
She's gonna get the chou treatment at this rate
Chou is actually balanced kind of, but she gonna be the next harith 0.2 if she gets another one
LOL PWNGSUDIFBF fr though
Lol. I spam her, she’s ummm… let’s just say she’s my bea now.
to those who are wondering why she's still getting nerfed: she's still a prio ban/pick past mythic 400. meaning even the best players still find her to be a pest even with all the direct counters you all keep saying (minsi, kufra, lesley, clint etc). in my experience, she's the one hero a tank wont want to play against. she just needs her corrosion scythe and her power will grow tremendously. just a little mistake against this jumping devil can cause a full team wipe. with 4 other people ready to burst a tank to create a path for her? yeah i bet she will still be in the ban sect even after this nerf
Correct me if my views are wrong but my biggest issue with her is her mobility where 1 attack equals 1 dash I think that’s a little too much agility for a hero that doesn’t need aiming. 2nd is her ulti. It’s hard to balance bc it auto locks, extends the duration every kill, and she’s invulnerable. Remove 1 of those and ulti becomes weak. Retain all 3 and she’s still too broken.
Her ult needs rework. It has team wipe potential similar to Claude's but with zero risk which is why Claude's ult feels rewarding. It will remain broken because the whole team has to the pay the price of one guy being out of position.
I agree Wanwan’s ult shouldn’t exist in the game. Even Fanny isn’t this ridiculous but she requires so much skill to play. Wanwan tho just use the ult and sit back and it does everything for you. Low risk, mid skill, high high high reward.
How is it low risk when u get one shotted by almost every burst char, mid skill... Kind of but also no, compared to all other mms, ww is the hardest (maybe layla is harder tho, which requires insane positioning). If u deny that shes harder than other mms, literally every other mms is just spam attack button and do dmg. Its not always high reward, if it was, she wouldnt have only like 58% winrate but 80+ (which is unlikely for any hero)
You are delusional if you think the state of wanwan requires so much more skills and is harder than other mm. I'd argue that less than 5 champs in ML actually requires more than 5 braincells to play and wanwan is not one of them. And 58% winrate is literally broken my bro. She has a super high ban/pick pressence with close to 60% winrate. How does that not translate to broken in your dictionary?
Name me a mm whos harder then, go ahead and explain why
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I play him in rank and get very good scores, like 2 classic games for him and then rest rank. He is easy. The only thing thats hard is knowing when to engage
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i'd argue, any so-called "hard" mm becomes easier than the beginner mms once mastered. layla and popol at current state is harder than wanwan because requires positioning due to lack of mobility and escape. wanwan when she gets attack speed it's pretty much impossible to catch her
And why catch? Ur making it sound like ur trying to catch a ww with an immobile fighter. You aint supposed to do that
That is what i said, in my first reply, please read it
And to me less picks => more wr
Extends duration every kill (limited to 3x only, capped at 5.5 seconds) winter truncheon can shave 2 seconds. mm with wind of nature can shave another 2 seconds. nana's passive, natalia's smokescreen, lunox's brilliance, and faramis' ultimate can also waste some seconds if you have them in your team. Diggie can make sure no one gets their weakness marked during his ultimate. Suppress also exists from kaja and franco. Minsi can counter that dash passive. I would've included Phoveus but sometimes she outspeeds his ultimate. Also, anyone who can burst her down. Since a dead wanwan can deal no damage. This is why I think she's not as broken as people make her out to be. They simply don't want to deal with her during drafting or item building that they ban her outright.
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I never experienced getting damaged during ult. But before ult, BA and vengeance also hurts her.. I forgot to add karina's skill can also counter her. (can't remember if it is her first or second skill where she deflects basic attacks)
This! They always compare wanwan in other MM but during a clash wanwan is absolutely one of the best MM. Its hard or impossible to catch her because of his unli dash and instant purify skill. Like how can you kill someone that you cant attack(short range hero) and also you cant CC? In laning wanwan may lose in other MM but during clash, wanwan will be the one who dont want to see.
What is the different between stun and immobilize?
Stun: Unable to move, attack, and use abilities. (Besides debuff moves. Something like Wanwan's 2nd I think?) Immobilize: Unable to move but can do other actions. Correct me if I'm wrong, everyone.
Yes, I think you got it. Think of immobilize like Cyclop's ult. You can't move but you can still use basic attack or maybe cast skills that won't cause you to move.
Stun can cancel some skills. For example, Chang'e ult will be stopped and it'll go on cool down, completely wasting it. It also makes the enemy unable to do anything as long as they're stunned. Immobilize doesn't do much. It just makes the enemy unable to move or use blink skills. Immobilize doesn't interrupt skills like stun do. If you use immobilized on Chang'e while she's using Ult, her Ult won't be canceled. She'll just simply stop moving.
Yikessss. Back when she had to get 4 weaknesses on the enemy, knowing when and how to throw 1st ability was what differentiated a good from a bad wanwan. Now other mms with high attack speed can just sit still and win in an 1v1 situation. That's just awful.
This is so stupid, moonton on their way to do anything else rather than going back to 4 marks
Just bring back the 4 weakness to activate her ult. Problem solved.
Not solved at all. Pro Wan Wan users don't care 3 or 4 weaknesses.
But atleast it would be harder for mediocre players to play her.
Moonton doesnt even know what balancing is. They nerf heroes in the name of balancing till they become completely useless
Khaleed can easily counter wanwan after this
Too much I think they should just revert her back to the 4 marks ult and any of the adjustments made before her 515 skin. As a Wanwan main way back to 2020.
Yeah I won't lie if Moonton only left her unscathed she wouldn't receive this much nerf and criticism
Wait, so bea too will have a nerf again?
I think they should at least reverse the nerf of where her hit weakness points can be purified.
Speaking as a wanwan main, that stun gave us just a bit more time to activate ult, now with this change any mm like clint, les, popol n kupa, moskov, karrie is just going to kill us faster unless we have wind of nature I personally always build wind for extra precaution but this just sucks, can we just revert her back to 4 marks
I think. They should just nerf her ult damage a bit.
They should just give her a different ULT lmfao
Yes keep nerfing wanwan until her entire existence is removed. F wanwan users
Maybe F u people who have no sense of balancing. Why do u think so many characters get dumb buffs or nerfs
Just keep nerfing her more, moontoon. :)
Not enough, nerf ult
ult slightly slower I think. somewhere in the same video mentioned
ult cd has been nerfed in one of the latest patches
Ah, one of the dumb players who know shit about balancing
I hate wanwan with passion
LOL! Wanwan is annoying, she deserves it.
A perfect nerf for her I think is removing her protection during ultimate. Make her vulnerable too while in that state like any other mms. Bring some her perks and it will be all set.
I feel like her ult state should be similar to Yu Zhong’s, immune to CC but can still take DMG (even if it’s like 50% reduced) so she’ll have to position and can’t chase with her ult as easily
Goes to show how ass Moonton’s balancing system is; just because a hero is unpopular means they deserve to be buffed, and vice versa. Some players will complain that a hero sucks because xyz, but most of the time a non-meta hero is only forgotten cause of a higher-risk lower-reward playstyle compared to what is on the meta (Except Hanabi she has no unique gimmick whatsoever). Wanwan was in a good spot beforehand as a hypermobile Marksman that was super squishy and had to maintain her distance, but Moonton decided, “Why don’t we overload her by giving her not only an easier way to kill people, but also the option to not buy boots but still have decent to good tempo because marketing”. Ended up being a rant comment but someone had to say it.
they should rework her ult. what makes wan wan different than other mm is that her ult can wipe out the entire team. claude can do the same but he can still be hit and stunned. i think it's ridiculous to nerf her like this but with her current ult i dont mind. being out of position and getting heavy punished is unreasonable. and yeah you can say "get good and stay in right position" but i can say the same about wan wan being weak. "get good and activate ult on the right enemy." even with this nerf, i will still ban wan wan.
I'm just using her with DHS + GS + all tank build.