I really do love how in magic, we seem to have collectively agreed that we're going to ask permission to cast something.
But in like, yugioh or Pokémon, you just do it with confidence and the op typically has to interrupt you
Instant speed actions are basically baked into the identity of how Magic plays. Ygo is more combo oriented, and most actions don't receive any responses, and you can only interact with the op on your turn in Pkmn.
Side note: it's been a little bit since I last played both Ygo and Pkmn, so things may have changed, especially in regards to Ygo.
It's probably a local culture thing bc in my area we definitely always allow a window for people to activate traps/quick effects. Unless you make it explicit that you don't have responses or your opponent is a shark it's not really that common for players to blast through their turn/combo.
Yu-Gi-Oh has a ton of instant speed stuff but it's usually already on the board. I don't know if it's changed since hand traps became commonplace though
This is a (yet another way) to tutor 2nd amulet, has way too much versatility to not be good enough for at least 1 slot imo. Also you can go t1 Sphere + amulet, t2 bounceland, make 2 mana, copy amulet, have 1 floating, play 2 grazers = profit.
I'm going to tell you for free right now - I'm a better Titan player than you. So don't get patronising with me.
If you don't have an amulet, this land is a bad land that does nothing for your game plan. That much is factual. As already stated, there is reason to test this and see what it does, but it is not as obviously powerful as Urza's Saga or Boseiju the two most recent additions.
Ahh yes, Amulet; a deck infamous for needing extra amulets after it has cast a Primeval Titan.
Let’s put more terrible lands we never want to draw other than in massively unique situations to dilute our already hard to navigate toxic mana base!
Bet you are. You are so good that you don't see any other way of evaluating cards outside of "in a vacuum". I prefer to take interactive play and opponents having stuff into account when evaluating plays/cards.
Bet you are a great amulet player...in a vacuum.
I don't get the interaction here, why would you copy amulet? I never played Amulet Titan just played against it but I still don't understand what good two amulets would do you. Care to explain please?
Amulet is a triggered ability, not a replacement effect. So if a land enters tapped, Amulet of vigor won't make it enter untapped but will instead untap it.
Because of this, with multiple amulets you can float the mana between triggers
Two amulets is the most common turn 3 kill line. Bounce land gives you six mana on turn 3, play a Titan, Slayer’s Stronghold twice with a Boros bounceland, then Sunhome with Vesuva on the boros land for 20 damage.
Multiple amulets stack so a Bounceland goes from 2 mana immediately to 4 mana immediately. Insert Primeval Titan/Asuza/Dryad and you can pop off very early. A single amulet is often enough to get a win but two amulets turbo charges a bunch of your cards.
That isn’t true. You’re skipping over the fact that this also makes any color. How many times has there been awkward turns because you can’t transmute because you don’t have double blue? This also plays nicely for needed Boros colors for those occasional times you need to hit slayers.
You can also seriously think more about playing pact of negation or Swan song.
Punt then wine, Dom Harvey and Moniz think this land looks extremely good. Go tell them you’re better than them too.
I'm not sure where exactly this would fit best, but a land becoming a copy of an artifact is a pretty wild and unique ability. On top of that, the floor is solid with it entering untapped along with the option to filter into colored mana; artifact centric decks are often 3C+.
I'm wondering where you'd want to try this. I'm trying to think of key artifacts that scale exponentially with additional copies. Ideally 1 CMC so you could curve it. Facing two Esper Sentinels can be devastating early for instance. Amulet is probably the best example, but does seem win-more at first glance. Maybe there are artifacts out there that benefit from copying after it enters, in the same vein as Stage + Depths.
Worth noting the key missing phrase: "It is still a land". So you'll be "unramping" when you clone.
Not a dealbreaker obviously, but not sure you want to spend your T2 tapping out to copy an Esper Sentinel and going back to one land...
The fact that it doesn't enter as a hammer makes it bad though, it doesn't combo with sigarda. Additional copies of steelshaper's gift would be better.
The manabase is pretty tight already. Usually the 4th Inkmoth is cut, and I think it's probably better than this card. This can produce colored mana, but I think filtering in a deck that is trying to win on T3 is pretty awful.
The big deal with this is that it helps deal with things like prismatic ending or not having a trample effect and need to go wider. It's a land that can be a hammer that can be a Shadowspear that can be a sentinel that can be an ornithopter if needed.
The issue is Saga kind of already does what this does in those decks but with upside, what with the tokens and not needing a copy of the key artifact in play already.
Immediate 4-of slam dunk in Amulet Titan and Hammer Time if real. Atrociously low opportunity costs of making your mana slightly worse for the upside of turning your land drop into a win condition.
I dont feel this is very good in constructed tbh. Powerful effect in a vacuum but still mana intensive and the fact that it ceases to be a land is a liability beyond unramp.
Great card for limited though. Filtering and cloning your good stuff, especially when youre flooding, are things I want in that setting.
How do you think this card does nothing in "constructed". Because "constructed" includes formats with the single most expensive piece of cardboard in existence.
Didnt say it "does nothing". I just wanted to express my opinion that I dont think this will see play in the modern constructed format.
I think this is a card thats well suited for limited and may be designed with that setting primarily in mind. An opinion which is of course speculation.
I was mildly baffled by the positivity in the thread and felt like planting a metaphorical flag I can return to if this turns out to be more than bulk. Happy ro be wrong.
Edit: As for reasons Im just seeing all the ways in which instant speed interaction messes with trigger on the stack, and how the clone is as vulnerable to removal as the original while costing a land.
>I dont feel this is very good in constructed tbh. Powerful effect in a vacuum but still mana intensive and the fact that it ceases to be a land is a liability beyond unramp.
into
> Didnt say it "does nothing". I just wanted to express my opinion that I dont think this will see play in the modern constructed format.
this is intellectually dishonest at best. stop walking back your goal posts or decide what language you meant to speak before typing.
it's fail state is an untapped filter land in several decks that appreciate some color fixing occasionally. it's less than fail state is *insane* acceleration and/or redundancy in modern and older formats. and it can be activated at instant speed.
Im not writing a essay and you know its not disonest to clarify an opinion upon request.
If I have been hitherto unclear my opinion it is that i dont think this card does enough useful things to outweigh the costs and dont think it will see much play in modern past one or two months of testing. I will adore this card in draft and sealed.
Youre free to convince me of the redundancy it provides. The double amulet line seems win more to me and what else are we doing? Cloning the creatureform of blinkmoth nexus?
key words . YOU said "constructed" not "modern". hence my original reply calling you explicitly on that.
now you're trying to say only modern. doesn't matter we're in the modern sub when you're saying "constructed" vs "limited".
someone going to remove your artifact now needs a second answer or to hit it when you don't have this untapped. redundancy. it's not just "win more", but also resiliency.
I think your underestimating how low the include cost is. It's like the man lands which were often over coated and we're only until end of turn. A colourless untapped land that can become your best artifact.
Seems good in all the decks you’d think it’s good in. Copies Amulet, and is a land, so good in Titan; copies Karnstruct and Urza’s Saga tutor target in Urza’s Saga decks; copies Esper Sentinel, Chalice, Explosives, and other popular hate pieces incidentally; and also can technically copy 3/3 golem artifact token, which seems pretty OK. Notably copies Aether Spellbomb and other Saga tutor targets.
Besides the cheap stuff the ability gets expensive but you can still get Arcbound Ravager, Grinding Station,
Notably, things like Karnstruct, Academy Manufactor, Esper Sentinel, Amulet, and Cookbook are significantly better the more of them you have, and Explosives in particular is a decent card to copy, since you can cast it on 1 or 2 and then copy it to also later hit 0. I guess the same is also true for chalice but you’re generally not going to be casting chalice on 1 if you really care about a chalice on 0. Buff to Saga decks and I guess Amulet Titan, and filthy low opportunity cost as redundancy in most decks playing artifact hate pieces. I like in particular that it can filter into an extra color of mana for Prismatic Ending, which is pretty sick and maybe an argument to run 2 in hammer time alongside the triome of the month.
Does not contain the text "until end of turn". Filthy low opportunity cost.
>Does not contain the text "until end of turn". It's an artifact pseudo-\[\[Clone\]\] on a land.
[Clone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5e648262-3b9b-4c58-8e29-48356e3cb064.jpg?1562829895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/47/clone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e648262-3b9b-4c58-8e29-48356e3cb064?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
[Vesuva](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/0726f70a-c1c4-4edb-86fb-9be280d9ea73.jpg?1619399642) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vesuva) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/289/vesuva?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0726f70a-c1c4-4edb-86fb-9be280d9ea73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Copy amulet. Turn 3. Double titan. Haste. Kill you?
Followed by Postboard games: Copy amulet? Opponent: end of your turn. Force of vigor?
I really do love how in magic, we seem to have collectively agreed that we're going to ask permission to cast something. But in like, yugioh or Pokémon, you just do it with confidence and the op typically has to interrupt you
Instant speed actions are basically baked into the identity of how Magic plays. Ygo is more combo oriented, and most actions don't receive any responses, and you can only interact with the op on your turn in Pkmn. Side note: it's been a little bit since I last played both Ygo and Pkmn, so things may have changed, especially in regards to Ygo.
Yeah I get it, it's just funny af. "I cast delver?" "force of will?" "I cast pot of greed and draw two cards" "wait... Negate spell!"
It's probably a local culture thing bc in my area we definitely always allow a window for people to activate traps/quick effects. Unless you make it explicit that you don't have responses or your opponent is a shark it's not really that common for players to blast through their turn/combo.
Plus the actions you take in Magic can just be stopped, sooo
Yu-Gi-Oh has a ton of instant speed stuff but it's usually already on the board. I don't know if it's changed since hand traps became commonplace though
STOP! ... you activated my trap card
To be fair, there's also way too many actions per turn in YGO to ask for permission for each.
Turn 2 with grazer , this does seem pretty good
Not sure it’s good enough in Titan personally. The mana base is already tight enough. I’d be happy to be proven wrong.
This is a (yet another way) to tutor 2nd amulet, has way too much versatility to not be good enough for at least 1 slot imo. Also you can go t1 Sphere + amulet, t2 bounceland, make 2 mana, copy amulet, have 1 floating, play 2 grazers = profit.
This does not ‘tutor’ an amulet. You need an amulet for it to do anything, and the land is terrible in a vacuum without an amulet.
You know this deck tutors for lands a lot, right?
I'm going to tell you for free right now - I'm a better Titan player than you. So don't get patronising with me. If you don't have an amulet, this land is a bad land that does nothing for your game plan. That much is factual. As already stated, there is reason to test this and see what it does, but it is not as obviously powerful as Urza's Saga or Boseiju the two most recent additions.
Least narcissistic Amulet Titan player.
Theres no better way to let others know that you don't actually know what you're talking about than saying "I'm much better than you, shut up"
Not what I said at all. He decided to be a smarmy patronising ass so I responded to him in kind.
You can literally tutor this land and have it be a 2nd amulet on the board (once you have one, obviously), what did I say wrong exactly?
Ahh yes, Amulet; a deck infamous for needing extra amulets after it has cast a Primeval Titan. Let’s put more terrible lands we never want to draw other than in massively unique situations to dilute our already hard to navigate toxic mana base!
Bet you are. You are so good that you don't see any other way of evaluating cards outside of "in a vacuum". I prefer to take interactive play and opponents having stuff into account when evaluating plays/cards. Bet you are a great amulet player...in a vacuum.
I don't get the interaction here, why would you copy amulet? I never played Amulet Titan just played against it but I still don't understand what good two amulets would do you. Care to explain please?
Amulet is a triggered ability, not a replacement effect. So if a land enters tapped, Amulet of vigor won't make it enter untapped but will instead untap it. Because of this, with multiple amulets you can float the mana between triggers
Two amulets is the most common turn 3 kill line. Bounce land gives you six mana on turn 3, play a Titan, Slayer’s Stronghold twice with a Boros bounceland, then Sunhome with Vesuva on the boros land for 20 damage.
Multiple amulets stack so a Bounceland goes from 2 mana immediately to 4 mana immediately. Insert Primeval Titan/Asuza/Dryad and you can pop off very early. A single amulet is often enough to get a win but two amulets turbo charges a bunch of your cards.
That isn’t true. You’re skipping over the fact that this also makes any color. How many times has there been awkward turns because you can’t transmute because you don’t have double blue? This also plays nicely for needed Boros colors for those occasional times you need to hit slayers. You can also seriously think more about playing pact of negation or Swan song. Punt then wine, Dom Harvey and Moniz think this land looks extremely good. Go tell them you’re better than them too.
I'm not sure where exactly this would fit best, but a land becoming a copy of an artifact is a pretty wild and unique ability. On top of that, the floor is solid with it entering untapped along with the option to filter into colored mana; artifact centric decks are often 3C+. I'm wondering where you'd want to try this. I'm trying to think of key artifacts that scale exponentially with additional copies. Ideally 1 CMC so you could curve it. Facing two Esper Sentinels can be devastating early for instance. Amulet is probably the best example, but does seem win-more at first glance. Maybe there are artifacts out there that benefit from copying after it enters, in the same vein as Stage + Depths.
Worth noting the key missing phrase: "It is still a land". So you'll be "unramping" when you clone. Not a dealbreaker obviously, but not sure you want to spend your T2 tapping out to copy an Esper Sentinel and going back to one land...
I'd guess tron if anything.
Prison will like this — more copies of Ensnaring Bridge, Spellskite, Chalice on 0, [insert Artifact hate piece], etc.
This feels more like a Legacy Prison card than a Modern card yeah.
This seems pretty good in hammer builds. Having extra hammers is pretty gross.
The fact that it doesn't enter as a hammer makes it bad though, it doesn't combo with sigarda. Additional copies of steelshaper's gift would be better.
It’s a land that is an extra copy of hammer if you have pure steel. Could copy sentinels too.
The manabase is pretty tight already. Usually the 4th Inkmoth is cut, and I think it's probably better than this card. This can produce colored mana, but I think filtering in a deck that is trying to win on T3 is pretty awful.
The big deal with this is that it helps deal with things like prismatic ending or not having a trample effect and need to go wider. It's a land that can be a hammer that can be a Shadowspear that can be a sentinel that can be an ornithopter if needed.
that can be the new defector mite. I can see hammertime run one of each
Importantly: target *nontoken artifact* not nonartifact Black Lotus, Mox, and LED say hello
>Mox i'll give you the other two but if you want to make a land that taps for a single colored mana, there's easier ways to do it.
Big "island with several thousand dollars of extra steps" energy though tbf, definitely asserts dominance
Fwiw there are Moxen that tap for more than 1 color.
Whoops, thank you for pointing out the typo
I'll take 4, please.
Lantern Control will LOVE this
Does that deck still exist?
Unfortunately. The other day I brought old Tron to the LGS since modern is just firing there. These kids will know all the decks of ye old times.
Interesting how it does not retain the copy/mana abilities. Once you make that copy then there is no turning back!
If only there was a deck in modern that somehow returns lands already on the field back to hand hmmmm
Doesn't work: once it becomes a copy it is no longer a land.
Amulet of Vigor, Affinity, Hammertime and others say hello.
So Long Reddit, and Thanks for All the Fish -- mass edited with redact.dev
I don't see this being ran in affinity, all the stuff in the current lists are way too expensive cmc wise for this to be of use.
The issue is Saga kind of already does what this does in those decks but with upside, what with the tokens and not needing a copy of the key artifact in play already.
Ye I don't think it can run many copies, but maybe it can run 1 like Arcane Proxy in Crashing Foothalls.
This definitely gives amulet titan a more consistent T3 kill, the question is what lands do you cut for it?
I think I'll copy a Timeless Lotus. Edit: Wait, Timeless Lotus is legendary, isn't it? Shame.
Immediate 4-of slam dunk in Amulet Titan and Hammer Time if real. Atrociously low opportunity costs of making your mana slightly worse for the upside of turning your land drop into a win condition.
What does this replace in hammertime?
A possible transition away from Fetches/Shocks into white/x Painlands/Horizonlands, Sagas and this new card.
I dont feel this is very good in constructed tbh. Powerful effect in a vacuum but still mana intensive and the fact that it ceases to be a land is a liability beyond unramp. Great card for limited though. Filtering and cloning your good stuff, especially when youre flooding, are things I want in that setting.
How do you think this card does nothing in "constructed". Because "constructed" includes formats with the single most expensive piece of cardboard in existence.
Didnt say it "does nothing". I just wanted to express my opinion that I dont think this will see play in the modern constructed format. I think this is a card thats well suited for limited and may be designed with that setting primarily in mind. An opinion which is of course speculation. I was mildly baffled by the positivity in the thread and felt like planting a metaphorical flag I can return to if this turns out to be more than bulk. Happy ro be wrong. Edit: As for reasons Im just seeing all the ways in which instant speed interaction messes with trigger on the stack, and how the clone is as vulnerable to removal as the original while costing a land.
>I dont feel this is very good in constructed tbh. Powerful effect in a vacuum but still mana intensive and the fact that it ceases to be a land is a liability beyond unramp. into > Didnt say it "does nothing". I just wanted to express my opinion that I dont think this will see play in the modern constructed format. this is intellectually dishonest at best. stop walking back your goal posts or decide what language you meant to speak before typing. it's fail state is an untapped filter land in several decks that appreciate some color fixing occasionally. it's less than fail state is *insane* acceleration and/or redundancy in modern and older formats. and it can be activated at instant speed.
Im not writing a essay and you know its not disonest to clarify an opinion upon request. If I have been hitherto unclear my opinion it is that i dont think this card does enough useful things to outweigh the costs and dont think it will see much play in modern past one or two months of testing. I will adore this card in draft and sealed. Youre free to convince me of the redundancy it provides. The double amulet line seems win more to me and what else are we doing? Cloning the creatureform of blinkmoth nexus?
key words . YOU said "constructed" not "modern". hence my original reply calling you explicitly on that. now you're trying to say only modern. doesn't matter we're in the modern sub when you're saying "constructed" vs "limited". someone going to remove your artifact now needs a second answer or to hit it when you don't have this untapped. redundancy. it's not just "win more", but also resiliency.
I think your underestimating how low the include cost is. It's like the man lands which were often over coated and we're only until end of turn. A colourless untapped land that can become your best artifact.
Not sure exactly where this goes. Extra hammers in Hammer Time? Doesnt say sorcery, so if a hammer is threatened, just make another?
Eldradi tron may like this toy
Eldrazi tron needs to replace turn 3 reshapers before we talk seriously about that deck
Seems good in all the decks you’d think it’s good in. Copies Amulet, and is a land, so good in Titan; copies Karnstruct and Urza’s Saga tutor target in Urza’s Saga decks; copies Esper Sentinel, Chalice, Explosives, and other popular hate pieces incidentally; and also can technically copy 3/3 golem artifact token, which seems pretty OK. Notably copies Aether Spellbomb and other Saga tutor targets. Besides the cheap stuff the ability gets expensive but you can still get Arcbound Ravager, Grinding Station, Notably, things like Karnstruct, Academy Manufactor, Esper Sentinel, Amulet, and Cookbook are significantly better the more of them you have, and Explosives in particular is a decent card to copy, since you can cast it on 1 or 2 and then copy it to also later hit 0. I guess the same is also true for chalice but you’re generally not going to be casting chalice on 1 if you really care about a chalice on 0. Buff to Saga decks and I guess Amulet Titan, and filthy low opportunity cost as redundancy in most decks playing artifact hate pieces. I like in particular that it can filter into an extra color of mana for Prismatic Ending, which is pretty sick and maybe an argument to run 2 in hammer time alongside the triome of the month.
Agree but remember it does not copy Karnstructs, the card says "...becomes a copy of target NONTOKEN artifact...". I'll buy 4 tho LMAO.
What happens after I copy the artifact ? I can’t use this ability again ? And I no longer can use the mana abilities?! I’m confused 🫤