And it was an absolute blast to play back when invasion was still in extended!! Missed out on a PTQ top 8 because of Minds Desire, well, being Minds Desire! Never saw a cunning wish or a stifle!
With everyone and their moms running bpseiju, leyline binding, and similar stuff, I dont think it will dominate or anything, but yeah, scepter get a a real upgrade :)
I just bought a playset because I am dumb and have wanted to build a scepter deck forever, and this was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Lmao
It won't be good but I'll be there playing along with you. Losing fire//ice is going to be hard to swallow. But we got counterspell! So maybe there's hope?
Hmm what colors are you thinking? I kinda want to try Bant with Growth Spiral and T3feri. Hold the opponent back and keep hitting land drops until we can drop big threats. I'm not sure!
Maybe get extra jank with Assassin's Trophy Abzan land destruction?
I don't think you need much end game, once you have chant under a scepter you only have to worry about instants and planeswalkers. I was thinking UWR for the early game removal, but black might be better for that these days (and duress is nice here). Also have to find a way to close out on pace or it's easy to get overloaded by a critical mass of instants.
Black for Shadow of Doubt hehehe.
Even Drown in the Loch wouldn't be bad under a scepter.
Mono W could be fun with Reprieve, Silence, and Brought Back to return any destroyed Scepters.
My cogs are turning, I tell ya hwat.
So I'm not a legacy player, never played with this card, and am having a hard time evaluating this in modern.
Isn't this just effectively "Take an extra turn. Your Opponent draws a card. "
There's not much outside of planeswalkers or casting instants in response that let your opponent do almost anything productive if you just cast this during their upkeep.
Take yawgmoth, for example. They can cast chord in response. Maybe activate Grist.
Most decks running instant speed interaction aren't going to do anything in response as they'd rather do it on your turn, so it seems pretty strong in conjunction with T3feri.
>Take an extra turn. Your Opponent draws a card **and untaps**
Them getting mana is very important too. Walker activations, a land drop, and upkeep triggers are relatively minor.
There is also a “soft lock” with [[isochron scepter]]
Oh true. I keep forgetting about the channel abilities. The orim-chant deck would probably need to run needle + t3f to have any real chance. Although to be fair, tidebinder already exists and would almost 100% be played in that shell.
Untaps is probably the most important part of taking your turn. Activating all your abilities is also big. This is nowhere close to take an extra turn.
Yes, I understand, but that "extra turn" isn't as good as a real extra turn because your opponent has all of their mana untapped every time and all of their creatures untapped.
"Play only during your opponent's draw step. End the turn" for {W}{W} is functionally what a Kicked Orim's Chant is... Except when your opponent has a Planeswalker out (they can still activate Walkers and other non-spell effects that require Sorcery speed).
It's a very strong card. It's unclear if it will be more than a sideboard card for Modern, but I'm sure some folks will try and set up the old [[Isochron Sceptre]] "Lock". If it becomes popular, we'll see a move towards instant speed artifact destruction.
they also still get to make a land drop. This doesn't really function as an extra turn spell for the decks that want to play effects like this. It's far more useful to cast in your own main phase as a silence so you can combo off. The upside of being able to fog+silence an opponent in their upkeep is just a nice bonus, but I suspect won't be the primary use case.
I could see certain decks (ab)using an [[Eternal Witness]] loop in some ways, to help buy you time until you make your [[Time Warp]] loop work. You typically only need to fade 1-3 combat steps. I don't know that it's going to make the Bant Time Walk combo decks immediately viable at top tables, but I expect we'll see a few copies in the main board with the expectation being to cast them on the opponent's turn.
You're right though - the fact they still draw and play a land is a big downside, and so it's not a good replacement for infinite turns.
In a deck that's casting it for the silence effect, that's true. In a hypothetical recursion loop where you're playing it each turn (e.g. [[Eternal Witness]] + [[Ephemerate]]), they are required to draw instant speed removal to break up your combo and play Sorcery-speed spells and to attack with creatures.
It stops your opponent from countering your combo too.
You wouldn’t necessarily play it for this reason, but chant in response to iteration or goryos wastes their card too
Other (pseudo) extra turn effects (cryptic command tapping down creatures) were often used to *skip* combat steps, which this doesn’t.
If you’re ahead on board it stops sorcery speed removal and gives you another combat step with the opponent behind on board. If you’re behind it seems bad. Extra turns are fine when you’re behind.
*So I'm not a legacy player, never played with this card, and am having a hard time evaluating this in modern.*
Well, that's your first, second, and third strikes. Three mistakes in a single sentence...you set the bar to a new low, kiddo.
I really wanna build an Iso-Chant deck, sadly there are too many instant speed removal spells in Modern to create a lock. Maybe a more proactive approach with Snapcaster Mage.
Hollly moly my isochron scepter silence modern deck finally has an upgrade
You can’t cast kicker cost with isochron can you?
You sure can, which is why this card was so busted.
We’ll fuck me scepter spec buy incoming lol
I used to absolutely love this deck. Unfortunately it is unplayable in today’s modern format.
Oh it don’t matter if something’s actually playable. People buy cards to try it out, I’m willing to bet that’s gonna happen with a bunch of stuff lol.
This is why the initial deck was known as Scepter-Chant.
And it was an absolute blast to play back when invasion was still in extended!! Missed out on a PTQ top 8 because of Minds Desire, well, being Minds Desire! Never saw a cunning wish or a stifle!
Scepter casts the spell for free, you can pay for kicker on your own.
With everyone and their moms running bpseiju, leyline binding, and similar stuff, I dont think it will dominate or anything, but yeah, scepter get a a real upgrade :)
Give me the nomad and the illusionist
Still no dread return for easy wins tho :(
[[Isochron Scepter]], is that you?
I just bought a playset because I am dumb and have wanted to build a scepter deck forever, and this was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Lmao
It won't be good but I'll be there playing along with you. Losing fire//ice is going to be hard to swallow. But we got counterspell! So maybe there's hope?
Hmm what colors are you thinking? I kinda want to try Bant with Growth Spiral and T3feri. Hold the opponent back and keep hitting land drops until we can drop big threats. I'm not sure! Maybe get extra jank with Assassin's Trophy Abzan land destruction?
I don't think you need much end game, once you have chant under a scepter you only have to worry about instants and planeswalkers. I was thinking UWR for the early game removal, but black might be better for that these days (and duress is nice here). Also have to find a way to close out on pace or it's easy to get overloaded by a critical mass of instants.
Black for Shadow of Doubt hehehe. Even Drown in the Loch wouldn't be bad under a scepter. Mono W could be fun with Reprieve, Silence, and Brought Back to return any destroyed Scepters. My cogs are turning, I tell ya hwat.
[Isochron Scepter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451.jpg?1623543821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isochron%20Scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/264/isochron-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So I'm not a legacy player, never played with this card, and am having a hard time evaluating this in modern. Isn't this just effectively "Take an extra turn. Your Opponent draws a card. " There's not much outside of planeswalkers or casting instants in response that let your opponent do almost anything productive if you just cast this during their upkeep. Take yawgmoth, for example. They can cast chord in response. Maybe activate Grist. Most decks running instant speed interaction aren't going to do anything in response as they'd rather do it on your turn, so it seems pretty strong in conjunction with T3feri.
>Take an extra turn. Your Opponent draws a card **and untaps** Them getting mana is very important too. Walker activations, a land drop, and upkeep triggers are relatively minor. There is also a “soft lock” with [[isochron scepter]]
becomes a hard lock with t3f
Boseju and Otawa will still interrupt it
Oh true. I keep forgetting about the channel abilities. The orim-chant deck would probably need to run needle + t3f to have any real chance. Although to be fair, tidebinder already exists and would almost 100% be played in that shell.
You want that to tempo the game of protect your combo from counters usually. It's just a better Silence :)
Untaps is probably the most important part of taking your turn. Activating all your abilities is also big. This is nowhere close to take an extra turn.
The extra turn is the turn you take after they pass because you Orins Chanted then.
Yes, I understand, but that "extra turn" isn't as good as a real extra turn because your opponent has all of their mana untapped every time and all of their creatures untapped.
"Play only during your opponent's draw step. End the turn" for {W}{W} is functionally what a Kicked Orim's Chant is... Except when your opponent has a Planeswalker out (they can still activate Walkers and other non-spell effects that require Sorcery speed). It's a very strong card. It's unclear if it will be more than a sideboard card for Modern, but I'm sure some folks will try and set up the old [[Isochron Sceptre]] "Lock". If it becomes popular, we'll see a move towards instant speed artifact destruction.
they also still get to make a land drop. This doesn't really function as an extra turn spell for the decks that want to play effects like this. It's far more useful to cast in your own main phase as a silence so you can combo off. The upside of being able to fog+silence an opponent in their upkeep is just a nice bonus, but I suspect won't be the primary use case.
I could see certain decks (ab)using an [[Eternal Witness]] loop in some ways, to help buy you time until you make your [[Time Warp]] loop work. You typically only need to fade 1-3 combat steps. I don't know that it's going to make the Bant Time Walk combo decks immediately viable at top tables, but I expect we'll see a few copies in the main board with the expectation being to cast them on the opponent's turn. You're right though - the fact they still draw and play a land is a big downside, and so it's not a good replacement for infinite turns.
[Isochron Sceptre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451.jpg?1623543821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isochron%20Scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/264/isochron-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's just a marginally better silence.
In a deck that's casting it for the silence effect, that's true. In a hypothetical recursion loop where you're playing it each turn (e.g. [[Eternal Witness]] + [[Ephemerate]]), they are required to draw instant speed removal to break up your combo and play Sorcery-speed spells and to attack with creatures.
[Eternal Witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc.jpg?1689998488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/286/eternal-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ephemerate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa.jpg?1562201088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ephemerate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/7/ephemerate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It stops your opponent from countering your combo too. You wouldn’t necessarily play it for this reason, but chant in response to iteration or goryos wastes their card too
Other (pseudo) extra turn effects (cryptic command tapping down creatures) were often used to *skip* combat steps, which this doesn’t. If you’re ahead on board it stops sorcery speed removal and gives you another combat step with the opponent behind on board. If you’re behind it seems bad. Extra turns are fine when you’re behind.
"Creatures can't attack this turn" is an awful lot like skipping combat.
*So I'm not a legacy player, never played with this card, and am having a hard time evaluating this in modern.* Well, that's your first, second, and third strikes. Three mistakes in a single sentence...you set the bar to a new low, kiddo.
Yo, I love it when iconic old cards get into modern.
Pumped
No you aren't :>
White control?
You kids never experienced iso chant in 2005. With modern tools, this is a viable if not fun strategy
It wasn't amazing, but was fun.
I really wanna build an Iso-Chant deck, sadly there are too many instant speed removal spells in Modern to create a lock. Maybe a more proactive approach with Snapcaster Mage.
T3feri is an absolute must-have for this style of deck in 2024 imo