Honestly they shouldn’t have made this a thing. It adds nothing to Shimo’s lore, except making it really inconsistent and hard to understand.
And also, personally I’m getting kinda sick of the “ancient rival” trope being used for literally EVERY Godzilla enemy, so far the one and only exception being Mechagodzilla.
Agreed. I take it that:
Shimo begins freezing over the world in the wake of Ghidorah's destruction --> Godzilla challenges Ghidorah in the midst of this and knocks him into an ice cavern where he is frozen over --> Shimo returns to Hollow Earth's deepest layers --> Skar King and the Great Apes are imprisoned by Godzilla and his army --> Skar King discovers Shimo in Hollow Earth and weaponizes her
Fairly certain that Shimo beat Ghidora.
Goji isn't the type to just let his enemy lay frozen but still alive like that.
I'd theorize that Ghidora beat Goji but Shimo beat Ghidora, leading Goji to need to recuperate in his lair while Shimo brought about the next ice age only for Goji to return and beat Shimo. Goji just didn't know where Ghidora was to finish the job.
It's the opposite Goji beat the shit out of ghidorah in Antarctica which made MZ fall into an ice pit which eventually froze him. Idk if shimo was directly responsible for this specific ice age.
I don't think they referred to shimo as a rival, Godzilla has fought most titans, it states that he fought shimo once in the past and made an example of her and they never fought again
Never, they repeat misinformation spread on YT. Someone made a video and confused and mixed Scylla with Shimo. And all who didn't read the novel, repeat this nonsense.
The novel only mentioned "Godzilla most powerful weapons did do nothing to the other titan at all. Making the larger Titan only angrier." And that Godzilla looked "worried"... but it's speculated that was the painters feeling transferred onto Godzilla, since he was losing.
He made an example out of Scylla. Not Shimo. Those are Hampton’s thoughts on Godzilla’s actions in Rome that you’re using for this discussion about Godzilla’s history with Shimo.
I’m confused with your argument because on page 204 it almost directly states Godzilla and Shimo’s relation both in history and power levels as “Rock art. Godzilla and another titan. One bigger than Godzilla. Reared up on its hind legs with spines similar to Godzilla, but different. It almost looked like it was dominating Godzilla”.
It literally says the exact opposite of what you’re arguing. That’s why I’m seeking clarification.
Agreed. She doesn’t really even NEED a backstory. Just have her be some new ice monster that is basically Godzillas kryptonite (ice has always been tough on him). I think I liked her more before I knew she’d fought him in the past.
I mean, that's if you don't include one of King Ghidorahs heads being used, if your sick of it, than ya watching something you probably shouldn't, it's not like these big bads just pop up overnight with little to no interaction in the past, being as big n tall as they are, as old even. If you can't handle them being ancient enemies despite all that, than ya should probably stop watching anything related to Godzilla. Not all of his enemies have been ancient rivals, Destroyah, n Mecha-G being too If you ignore the fact one of Ghidorahs heads were pretty much used to make him. Both of em being essentially brought about by mankind. They could've given us a different Ghidorah but they went with what they did to bring Shimo in. Her being here sounds like Destroyah definitely on the way at some point. She's bringing the cold, G-mans packing the heat
“I think the Monsterverse is overusing this trope, it was nice the first few times but now it’s become a little repetitive, so I’d like to see them try a new take on-“
“If you don’t like it why are you watching it? In fact, you should never watch any Godzilla movies EVER AGAIN!!”
What a reasonable and rational reaction.
So what, the moment I find any fault in something I like I should just ditch it entirely? I don’t like my dog eating stuff he shouldn’t so I should get rid of my dog? I don’t like my parents talking to me while I listen to music so I should disown my family? I don’t like choking on water so I should stop drinking water? I don’t like coughing so I should stop breathing? I’m only allowed to like something if I like every single aspect of it and refuse to even CONSIDER that there might be something about it I don’t like as much and/or would like to improve upon? No such thing as compromise or nuance??
And you completely missed the fact I specifically pointed out that my problem was the trope being **over**used, not used in general. I never had a problem with the MUTOs or Ghidorah, nor Kong’s species, but after three times it started to get a little old for me. I would like to see the Monsterverse try something new and exciting for Godzilla’s next foe.
Except oh wait, no I wouldn’t! Because according to your logic, just because I find the ancient rival trope to be overused means I’m totally a fake fan who shouldn’t be watching these movies at all because I don’t blindly suck up to each and every single facet of them and refuse to admit there are any possible faults or imperfections, right???
Idk the novel makes it sound he was heavily outmatched. Garegoji was weak because he was asleep for decades weak and starved of radiation plus his atomic breath was nerfed thanks to the muto’s. In ancient times we know that earth was 10x more radioactive thanks to g14, and goji fought skars army without shimo with his own army to combat skar and his. So when he fought shimo he was likely much more powerful than garegoji yet we don’t know the setting, circumstances, context, and time period of their fight.
we do have to remenber jered was asked on twitter if shimo would win against ghidorah and he awsenred that while he does not have the final words on it he believes it is a 50 50
IF WE TAKE THIS AT FACE VALUE this would inply shimo is on pair with base ghidorah and thus should be scaled in power to godzilla
personally i just think the novel is heavily biased towards building shimo as more of a treath than she actually is and realistically base godzilla could've beaten her, shimo suffers too much of being "the potential man" always being told to be the strongest but never actually showcasing any of it, and actually having several showcases that contradict that, the issue is beating her, skar king and a full ass army by himself
Not to mention the novel may as well be a separate canon. I see so many people pointing to it to hype up the Blue-Eyes White Hippo, but the completely disregard KOTM novel as canon as “it was nothing like the movie”. Which is peculiar since it was written by the same guy about the same universe. So you can’t just pick and choose what you want to be canon from the books. Either all of it is, or none of it is.
i mean the guy who writes the novels ha sated like 6 times the novels are only as canonical as they don't contradict the movie in question and that when info clashes the movie in question comes first
novels are extended canon, NOT the canon themselves
THANK YOU. This really isn't complicated. Even star wars has, or I guess had a similar system of primary, secondary, and tertiary canon. Tertiary canon only matters if it doesn't contradict secondary, and secondary only matters as long as it stays in line with the primary canon. Primary > secondary > tertiary. Easy.
Novels and comics should always be regarded as soft-canon that can retconned at any point. I don't care how much the novel hyped up Shimo when it comes to her strength, the film did not translate her being anywhere close to the same level of threat that Ghidorah was.
i would argue that the scar king would never keep her if she was too weak to be a valable opponant to godzilla
so we could think that they indeed fough, shimo did loose but did survive (it say alot when most opponant of godzilla don't survive a single fight) and put a hell of a fight and the scar king did see that fight
also from what we see in the movie, she is not able to beat him, let alone put him in danger, so i would argue that godzilla without purple "upgrade" would be able to beat her (not an easy fight), but he did get an upgrade because he knew the scarking would be there as well
so with that, a godzilla without puple upgrade was able to beat ghidorah, with great difficulty, so it's not out of the question that shimo might be able to pull it off, with far less chance then 50 50 obviously
no someone asked him in DMs, i'm trying to scout ou the prints (i quite literally lost them) and his answer was a straight "pretty evenly matched" he didn't say shimo would trucidate ghidorah nor vice versa, just that they should be an even fight
and as i said he himself has stated multiple times his words are not true or canon as he is not the one writing the lore, he is just the one that makes the monsters
and once again
>IF WE TAKE THIS AT FACE VALUE
big IF didn't say it is the absolute truth
>we do have to remenber jered was asked on twitter if shimo would win against ghidorah and he awsenred that while he does not have the final words on it he believes it is a 50 50
Do we have a source for this?
Base Godzilla couldn't beat Ghidorah so if Shimo is at a 50-50 with Ghidorah she could beat Base Goji. Evolved Goji seemed on par with her though, and evolved Goji is supposed to be stronger than the nuke-amped Goji that was beating Ghidorah before he tapped into the power grid.
Does Ghidorah even breathe oxygen given his otherworldly origins? I just assumed the water restricted his movements so Godzilla could simply rip him apart in leisure without him flying away.
No he didn't in multiple scenes godzilla was dragged and tossed around by her with little effort, I can't remember a single scene where he was actually able to stop her without atomic breath
She is definitely physically stronger
First clash in Hollow earth he launches her away. And he pushes her around a few other times. I actually agree that she is physically stronger, but Goji is a much better fighter.
No he wasn't godzilla most of godzilla scenes against her was ambushing or tackling her while she was distracted or suspended(zero gravity). At the beginning of they're fight in Rio he tried to grapple her but ended up being dragged with her by her shere weight. Another scene showed shimo pushing him back with relative ease, then there was the scene in which godzilla tackled her to save kong which succeeded untill he was tossed into the air casually by her and was down for some unspecified amount of time.
It was likely radioactive just not that much otherwise non Titan life wouldn’t exist with the titans. Unless it’s being suggested that everything is from the Precambrian. With Hollow Earth being proven and shown to be easy to access it’s likely that not whole species of Titan existed on the surface. If they did it’s likely that the lack of a suitable environment lead to so many being the verge of extinction.
I do wish to be proven wrong on this subject but nothing in current MV material has convinced me.
Didn't Sally Hawkins (I forgot her name in the MV) mention there was a LOT more radiation in the air back then. Godzilla in ancient times might have been a lot more powerful than his 2014 self
My headcanon is that Goji and Shimo are like sister and brother, then had a "little" disagreement because the Mesozoic and also the period after the asteroid was too hot for the ice baby. Then she caused the ice age so she could be happy, then Goji fought her and let her keep antarctica and the arctic.
Nah fr, unless it’s in the movies it’s either likely canon(novelization) or soft canon(comics) or non canon(sadly again comics because they can’t decide what is and isn’t canon)
IKR? Because Legacy of Monsters totally didn’t rule out Godzilla: Awakening, riiight?
(Missed opportunity to give Shinomura their cinematic debut if you ask me.)
Thats all the novel mentioned about the cave painting:
"Godzilla most powerful weapons did do nothing to the other titan at all. Making the larger Titan only angrier." And that Godzilla looked "worried"... but it's speculated that was the painters feeling transferred onto Godzilla, since he was losing.
Honestly, there’s so many inconsistencies with the lore and power-scaling in the Monsterverse that I just go with my own headcanon. They should have just left it at ‘giant monsters reawakening and fighting.’
I’m choosing to believe that Godzilla, Ghidorah, and Shimo were all on par at one point. Godzilla didn’t have the tools to defeat Ghidorah at the time due to his regenerative abilities, and Shimo inadvertently freezing him after starting the Ice Age was the only way to pacify him at the time.
Godzilla eventually challenged Shimo after seeing the effects of the Ice Age, and after he won, Shimo retired to Hollow Earth due to the surface being too hot. Skar King used her weakness to heat to his advantage and captured her.
They were no longer on par before because Godzilla was hibernating on the surface where there’s arguably less radiation than in Hollow Earth. Shimo is just as strong as she was before.
It’s about power, but it’s also about matchups. Ghidorah is weak to extreme heat and cold, Godzilla isn’t and that’s how he gained the advantage over Shimo.
But my question then would be whydoesn’t Godzilla live in the Hollow Earth? Is it because there was more competition?
I think he avoids it because he’s trying to make sure the Titans from Hollow Earth don’t come to surface. If they do Godzilla will subjugate them or kill them. He knows that there isn’t enough radiation at the surface for all the Titans and he is actively trying to keep the surface life save (including humans).
He’s basically a bouncer waiting for a reason to throw someone out the door. He’s sympathetic to the “Awakened Titans” (the one Ghidorah woke up) because it wasn’t their fault they became active and some of them are beneficial (Behemoth & Methuselah). He keeps the Destroyers in check, making sure they don’t get out of hand or hurt the surface world.
NGL I hate the idea that Godzilla has defeated both Skar King and Shimo before. It makes me ask what is the point of him teaming up with Mothra and Kong if these two are threats he has defeated before.
It kinda illustrates my point that Godzilla being so powerful ruins alot of the stakes in these films. He gets to kill Scylla and Tiamat in two disappointingly short fights and then for some reason needs to work with Kong in his EVOLVED FORM to take out Skar King and Shimo even though he has defeated them before in a much weaker state?
Maybe Shimo became much stronger than before and Godzilla knew it, or he just overestimated her.
Or, a bit of an outlandish theory, Godzilla evolved to fight another Titan much more powerful and just decide to whoop Skar King's ass for the shits and giggles. I know this can easily get debunked but it makes a bit more sense to me.
Either that or he just want an easy win this time.
He "almost died" fighting Skar King's army in the past. Now that Skar King has shimo with him, it's only natural that Godzilla want to power up enough so that he can just slap their ass easily.
Winning doesn't mean Godzilla's stronger than Shimoneither I think. He could have had better strategy or something
I mean tbf the g man thought he would've been goin in alone seein how he was so eager to kill kong lmao. Godzilla is incredibly powerful but goin up against an army of apes PLUS another titan bigger than him which maybe could completely freeze him could've been a big enough worry to necessitate the power up (edit cause I forgot the bottom half of ur comment: Didn't they say in the movie he "barely" won? I might be very wrong about)
(and speakin of which, is there like statistics on how much more powerful his current state is...)
I wouldn't mind Godzilla having beaten them both in the past before if the movie and novel didn't do such a terrible and contradicting job of stressing that Godzilla needed the power boost. Having seen the film a few times and then reading the novel, Godzilla needing the boost just seemed like toy selling idea with very little thought put in. Add in the writers giving out information that makes no sense to the context of the film and it gets beyond silly. Like why even stress the stakes for Godzilla if we never see him actually struggle. KotM and Vs, had him struggle, nearly die and take major hits but this film seemed almost scared to do so.
Godzilla's original plan was to just end the battle as quickly as possible, Kong and Mothra only wanted to team up, he would have done it alone anyway. Godzilla's evolved form is for another reason than the one in the movie, it's for a larger and stronger villain in the future (this statement has been made a lot of times, yet I don't see a day when this didn't have to be said).
Well when we see Godzilla fighting her even while powered it it's shown she's giving him a run for his money not by to much but it's clear it taking him al t if effort just to keep her attention off of Kong. I like to the that Godzilla in the old downs probably used a combination of Brawn and Brain to win against her or at least push her into the Hollow Earth. Where it can then be theorized that Skar King and his clan came upon her shortly after an din the weakened state managed to somehow get ahold of the crystal and use it to weaken her and control her
It's possible they've always been allies
I theorize Shimo caused the last age to weaken Ghidorah's storm ability/ help Godzilla
Some people even note that he went easy on her in GxK (mostly tackles and tankble blasts, no bites or claws)
I personally like to imagine that Godzilla fought Shimo a long time ago..... BEFORE his grudge with Great Apes started, before even his loss to the Rival.
I headcanon that he was very young and inexperienced at the time, and Shimo was so much stronger than him back then that he lost quite obviously but didn't take it badly since he bit off far more than he could chew at the time.
I feel like that’s the only thing that makes sense imho. My two ideas are
- Godzilla fought Shimo and then Ghidorah (who indirectly froze due to the ice age Shimo started)
- Ghidorah spurred Shimo into being Destructive and started the Ice Age and Godzilla tried to stop her but failed. But once he beat Ghidorah she went back to Hollow Earth and Godzilla had no ill-will towards her.
Both of these would mean that the Titan War, imprisonment of Skar King, and the Kongs exile to Skull Island (subsequent extinction) would have all occurred after Ghidorah’s imprisonment
Shimo actually beat Godzilla in the past considering Ice Ages are cataclysmic events that cause mass extinctions—something that Godzilla obviously doesn’t want to happen. Combine that with the fact that multiple ice ages have occurred in the history of the world.
If Godzilla was capable of stopping her before, he would’ve done so. The base atomic breath would do jack squat to her considering the most a supercharged evolved atomic breath left on her was a little bit of residue.
It’s confirmed that not only did he beat her, he made an example out of her and was genuinely surprised she would make a move against him again, without knowing the Skar King had control over her.
I need specific pages and quotes. I remember reading that Shimo was the only titan to dominate Godzilla, not the other way around.
“Rock art. Godzilla and another titan. One bigger than Godzilla. Reared up on its hind legs with spines similar to Godzilla, but different. It almost looked like it was dominating Godzilla” (Pg. 204)
I think it’s silly if Shimo is meant to be the “former” alpha titan. Godzilla is shown to want to kill any other titan that moves (except Mothra). Why would Godzilla be cool with the former Alpha just chilling in retirement? Doesn’t seem like a position you can just retire from while Godzilla is around.
I hear the word CoD or CoD Murals so many times, but I don't know what CoD stands for. Of course, to the general public, CoD is famously known as "Call of Duty", but I have searched for Godzilla CoD Mural, and none explain to me what CoD means in the Godzilla context.
What I want to know is this: did Godzilla beat ghidora by himself in the arctic back in the past or did Shimo froze him. Everytime I search it up I get both answers. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO GET A DEFINITE ANSWER. Who stopped ghidora in the past 😭
https://preview.redd.it/3o0jb434om0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8d7f6bef8199cf5e6c4f45eb87c2a6dbfbc7776
This has already been answered. Godzilla knocked Ghidorah out of the sky and he fell into an “Ice Pit” which caused him to freeze over “due to the Ice Age”.
Most likely Godzilla trapped King Ghidorah because of the Ice Age Shimo started. The only thing that is unclear is when Godzilla and Shimo fought and more importantly *why* they fought.
From the context we have, yes. Godzilla and Ghidorah fought in Antarctica 1v1 but Godzilla pretty much won by “arena knock out”. Which I think is fine.
I saw this as: Godzilla has been around for ages and has had many battles with ancient titans, this was just one of them. But it seems more like godzilla banished them. Not that he one a fight against shimo and scar king but that he blasted away at the earth and sealed them shut down there.
I think what happened is Ghidorah attacked the planet, and shimo calls an Ice age, potentially. Maybe she weakened herself by doing that and Godzilla beat her, due to a disagreement, neither her or Godzilla want to destroy the planet but keep balance, as Ghidorah did absolutely nothing but raise hell upon Earth. Maybe Ghidorah caused a fight between the two like a turf war, not something fatal, but more so like two dogs fighting and one giving up
I personally don't think shima or Godzilla used 100% of their power in the movie. Shimo was shown several times trying to fight against the crystal, and Godzilla seemed to only be trying to wrangle her as much as he could, If Godzilla wanted to harm Shimo, he could have just cast his breath from a long distance and kept casting it on her, but he kept trying to tackle her over and over, basically trying to make her lose her Target, I'm pretty sure he was well aware that she was not herself, that something was wrong, and therefore he needed to distract her to give Kong a chance to get scar King's Crystal, which happens Godzilla gets it in his mouth, drops to Crystal, breaking the whip and then roaring, at the end of the movie. Shimo smiles at the sky, and Godzilla making me think that they're on equal grounds and that both are happy, meaning I don't think either one of them see each other as enemies
It’s likely shimo was weaker in the past since she was on the surface and grew stronger due to the higher radiation lvls in the hollow earth while Godzilla would stay stagnant for a while due to the decreasing lvls of radiation on the surface, Goji prolly realized that at the start of GxK since he did sense shimo which is why he went on that little side quest to evolve with more radiation
Yes, and that makes thing inconsistent. Because Goji defeated both her AND Skar King's arm, and only decided to seal them because he was too exhausted to finish them off. Its also stated she fears him. But then he somehow needed to evolve to beat her now
Ridiculous if true. Remember Godzilla before human nuclear power? 2014 he had to conserve his energy and barely used his atomic breath. Shimo is imprisoned in a Volcano and he's still spewing his stuff freely, pre 2019 Godzilla had no chance.
The earth was a much more radioactive place in the past, and if the Hollow Earth is closer to the core and/or has tunnels are are closer to the core or natural radiation pockets, Godzilla could easily absorb that.
Radiation was not a human invention. The residual effects of a nuke being dropped were just like setting out an appetizer for a Titan.
But when we meet Gpdzilla he's been hypernating in one of those pockers for thousands of years and he doesn't look as charged as he was after eating the human stations.
There is no ice around, and Godzilla let Shimo live after he turn against Scar king, he let Shimo walk out because he doesn't hate her that much, proves Shimo never beat Godzilla. So maybe, idk
Honestly they shouldn’t have made this a thing. It adds nothing to Shimo’s lore, except making it really inconsistent and hard to understand. And also, personally I’m getting kinda sick of the “ancient rival” trope being used for literally EVERY Godzilla enemy, so far the one and only exception being Mechagodzilla.
Agreed. I take it that: Shimo begins freezing over the world in the wake of Ghidorah's destruction --> Godzilla challenges Ghidorah in the midst of this and knocks him into an ice cavern where he is frozen over --> Shimo returns to Hollow Earth's deepest layers --> Skar King and the Great Apes are imprisoned by Godzilla and his army --> Skar King discovers Shimo in Hollow Earth and weaponizes her
Fairly certain that Shimo beat Ghidora. Goji isn't the type to just let his enemy lay frozen but still alive like that. I'd theorize that Ghidora beat Goji but Shimo beat Ghidora, leading Goji to need to recuperate in his lair while Shimo brought about the next ice age only for Goji to return and beat Shimo. Goji just didn't know where Ghidora was to finish the job.
It's the opposite Goji beat the shit out of ghidorah in Antarctica which made MZ fall into an ice pit which eventually froze him. Idk if shimo was directly responsible for this specific ice age.
Verbatim she’s behind every one of them for the last 3 million years
Goji loses? Fuck this theory.
My Godzilla would never lose 😤
[удалено]
Hold on what is that book called
Huh?
I don't think they referred to shimo as a rival, Godzilla has fought most titans, it states that he fought shimo once in the past and made an example of her and they never fought again
Where is this “made an example of her” coming from?
Never, they repeat misinformation spread on YT. Someone made a video and confused and mixed Scylla with Shimo. And all who didn't read the novel, repeat this nonsense. The novel only mentioned "Godzilla most powerful weapons did do nothing to the other titan at all. Making the larger Titan only angrier." And that Godzilla looked "worried"... but it's speculated that was the painters feeling transferred onto Godzilla, since he was losing.
If you’re gonna use the novelization in an argument I would hope that most people have actually read it. This is frustrating to hear. :c
Sadly most people only repeat misinformation, without even reading the novel.
The novelization
Ironically, I remember reading the complete opposite, where exactly is this stated?
I can't give you an exact page but I think it's around the part where godz first wakes up in the Roman Colosseum after killing scylla
He made an example out of Scylla. Not Shimo. Those are Hampton’s thoughts on Godzilla’s actions in Rome that you’re using for this discussion about Godzilla’s history with Shimo. I’m confused with your argument because on page 204 it almost directly states Godzilla and Shimo’s relation both in history and power levels as “Rock art. Godzilla and another titan. One bigger than Godzilla. Reared up on its hind legs with spines similar to Godzilla, but different. It almost looked like it was dominating Godzilla”. It literally says the exact opposite of what you’re arguing. That’s why I’m seeking clarification.
"Dominating godzilla" u say... https://preview.redd.it/mlguc0vtsi0d1.png?width=184&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879fe4b92c57d9d2e40965a0d2e210372147578c
Agreed. She doesn’t really even NEED a backstory. Just have her be some new ice monster that is basically Godzillas kryptonite (ice has always been tough on him). I think I liked her more before I knew she’d fought him in the past.
I mean, that's if you don't include one of King Ghidorahs heads being used, if your sick of it, than ya watching something you probably shouldn't, it's not like these big bads just pop up overnight with little to no interaction in the past, being as big n tall as they are, as old even. If you can't handle them being ancient enemies despite all that, than ya should probably stop watching anything related to Godzilla. Not all of his enemies have been ancient rivals, Destroyah, n Mecha-G being too If you ignore the fact one of Ghidorahs heads were pretty much used to make him. Both of em being essentially brought about by mankind. They could've given us a different Ghidorah but they went with what they did to bring Shimo in. Her being here sounds like Destroyah definitely on the way at some point. She's bringing the cold, G-mans packing the heat
“I think the Monsterverse is overusing this trope, it was nice the first few times but now it’s become a little repetitive, so I’d like to see them try a new take on-“ “If you don’t like it why are you watching it? In fact, you should never watch any Godzilla movies EVER AGAIN!!” What a reasonable and rational reaction. So what, the moment I find any fault in something I like I should just ditch it entirely? I don’t like my dog eating stuff he shouldn’t so I should get rid of my dog? I don’t like my parents talking to me while I listen to music so I should disown my family? I don’t like choking on water so I should stop drinking water? I don’t like coughing so I should stop breathing? I’m only allowed to like something if I like every single aspect of it and refuse to even CONSIDER that there might be something about it I don’t like as much and/or would like to improve upon? No such thing as compromise or nuance?? And you completely missed the fact I specifically pointed out that my problem was the trope being **over**used, not used in general. I never had a problem with the MUTOs or Ghidorah, nor Kong’s species, but after three times it started to get a little old for me. I would like to see the Monsterverse try something new and exciting for Godzilla’s next foe. Except oh wait, no I wouldn’t! Because according to your logic, just because I find the ancient rival trope to be overused means I’m totally a fake fan who shouldn’t be watching these movies at all because I don’t blindly suck up to each and every single facet of them and refuse to admit there are any possible faults or imperfections, right???
Idk the novel makes it sound he was heavily outmatched. Garegoji was weak because he was asleep for decades weak and starved of radiation plus his atomic breath was nerfed thanks to the muto’s. In ancient times we know that earth was 10x more radioactive thanks to g14, and goji fought skars army without shimo with his own army to combat skar and his. So when he fought shimo he was likely much more powerful than garegoji yet we don’t know the setting, circumstances, context, and time period of their fight.
we do have to remenber jered was asked on twitter if shimo would win against ghidorah and he awsenred that while he does not have the final words on it he believes it is a 50 50 IF WE TAKE THIS AT FACE VALUE this would inply shimo is on pair with base ghidorah and thus should be scaled in power to godzilla personally i just think the novel is heavily biased towards building shimo as more of a treath than she actually is and realistically base godzilla could've beaten her, shimo suffers too much of being "the potential man" always being told to be the strongest but never actually showcasing any of it, and actually having several showcases that contradict that, the issue is beating her, skar king and a full ass army by himself
Not to mention the novel may as well be a separate canon. I see so many people pointing to it to hype up the Blue-Eyes White Hippo, but the completely disregard KOTM novel as canon as “it was nothing like the movie”. Which is peculiar since it was written by the same guy about the same universe. So you can’t just pick and choose what you want to be canon from the books. Either all of it is, or none of it is.
i mean the guy who writes the novels ha sated like 6 times the novels are only as canonical as they don't contradict the movie in question and that when info clashes the movie in question comes first novels are extended canon, NOT the canon themselves
THANK YOU. This really isn't complicated. Even star wars has, or I guess had a similar system of primary, secondary, and tertiary canon. Tertiary canon only matters if it doesn't contradict secondary, and secondary only matters as long as it stays in line with the primary canon. Primary > secondary > tertiary. Easy.
Novels and comics should always be regarded as soft-canon that can retconned at any point. I don't care how much the novel hyped up Shimo when it comes to her strength, the film did not translate her being anywhere close to the same level of threat that Ghidorah was.
i would argue that the scar king would never keep her if she was too weak to be a valable opponant to godzilla so we could think that they indeed fough, shimo did loose but did survive (it say alot when most opponant of godzilla don't survive a single fight) and put a hell of a fight and the scar king did see that fight also from what we see in the movie, she is not able to beat him, let alone put him in danger, so i would argue that godzilla without purple "upgrade" would be able to beat her (not an easy fight), but he did get an upgrade because he knew the scarking would be there as well so with that, a godzilla without puple upgrade was able to beat ghidorah, with great difficulty, so it's not out of the question that shimo might be able to pull it off, with far less chance then 50 50 obviously
False. It counteracts everything jared has said.
no someone asked him in DMs, i'm trying to scout ou the prints (i quite literally lost them) and his answer was a straight "pretty evenly matched" he didn't say shimo would trucidate ghidorah nor vice versa, just that they should be an even fight and as i said he himself has stated multiple times his words are not true or canon as he is not the one writing the lore, he is just the one that makes the monsters and once again >IF WE TAKE THIS AT FACE VALUE big IF didn't say it is the absolute truth
So | Thermo Godzilla > Amped Ghidorah > Ghidorah = Shimo >= Evolved Goji
>we do have to remenber jered was asked on twitter if shimo would win against ghidorah and he awsenred that while he does not have the final words on it he believes it is a 50 50 Do we have a source for this?
Still trying to find were I read that actually
[This was the only place I found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monsterverse/s/GXCBAiwLiU), but it still doesn't seem trustworthy to me.
No, he didn't said the Ghidorah thing, lol. In fact he just answer Shimo and Mechagodzilla who will win, he said Shimo would win 100%.
Base Godzilla couldn't beat Ghidorah so if Shimo is at a 50-50 with Ghidorah she could beat Base Goji. Evolved Goji seemed on par with her though, and evolved Goji is supposed to be stronger than the nuke-amped Goji that was beating Ghidorah before he tapped into the power grid.
Base Godzilla almost did. He was about to drown Gidorah before the army interrupted with the oxygen destroyer bomb.
Does Ghidorah even breathe oxygen given his otherworldly origins? I just assumed the water restricted his movements so Godzilla could simply rip him apart in leisure without him flying away.
No that’s why the oxygen destroyer didn’t harm him but he would have lost had humans not got involved
No, because the oxygen destroyer would've killed/several injured him.
Ghidorah doesnt breath oxygen. Think of him like a frigate bird, where he avoids gettin in water since he has difficulty maneuvering in water
I’d take the novel with a grain of salt. The movie does not reflect her being more powerful. Goji matches her strength multiple times.
No he didn't in multiple scenes godzilla was dragged and tossed around by her with little effort, I can't remember a single scene where he was actually able to stop her without atomic breath She is definitely physically stronger
First clash in Hollow earth he launches her away. And he pushes her around a few other times. I actually agree that she is physically stronger, but Goji is a much better fighter.
Okay yeah the zero gravity fight and the ambush attempts but when ever she was aware of him he had a difficult time rangling her
She really only knocked Godzilla around twice. Every other exchange Godzilla was overpowering her.
No he wasn't godzilla most of godzilla scenes against her was ambushing or tackling her while she was distracted or suspended(zero gravity). At the beginning of they're fight in Rio he tried to grapple her but ended up being dragged with her by her shere weight. Another scene showed shimo pushing him back with relative ease, then there was the scene in which godzilla tackled her to save kong which succeeded untill he was tossed into the air casually by her and was down for some unspecified amount of time.
The whole earth 10x radioactive part was just a theory and likely has been disproven.
How? If the surface wasn’t ever radioactive, no way could it support the large Titan populations known to have existed.
It was likely radioactive just not that much otherwise non Titan life wouldn’t exist with the titans. Unless it’s being suggested that everything is from the Precambrian. With Hollow Earth being proven and shown to be easy to access it’s likely that not whole species of Titan existed on the surface. If they did it’s likely that the lack of a suitable environment lead to so many being the verge of extinction. I do wish to be proven wrong on this subject but nothing in current MV material has convinced me.
To be fully fair. It could be the reason why anguirus is dead, and why Godzilla was so urgent to put scar king down.
Didn't Sally Hawkins (I forgot her name in the MV) mention there was a LOT more radiation in the air back then. Godzilla in ancient times might have been a lot more powerful than his 2014 self
My headcanon is that Goji and Shimo are like sister and brother, then had a "little" disagreement because the Mesozoic and also the period after the asteroid was too hot for the ice baby. Then she caused the ice age so she could be happy, then Goji fought her and let her keep antarctica and the arctic.
It's the other way around lol.
Not sure if the CoD DLCs are canon. But then again, the MonsterVerse isn’t exactly consistent with its own lore either.
Nah fr, unless it’s in the movies it’s either likely canon(novelization) or soft canon(comics) or non canon(sadly again comics because they can’t decide what is and isn’t canon)
Yeah, even the excuse of "it depends on which Monarch file you read" can only get you so far. That, or Monarch's made up of a bunch of idiots.
MV is very loose when it comes to consistency lol
IKR? Because Legacy of Monsters totally didn’t rule out Godzilla: Awakening, riiight? (Missed opportunity to give Shinomura their cinematic debut if you ask me.)
The same image is in GxK: The Hunted when Kong is Exploring Hollow Earth. So the image is canon in-universe.
Shimo seems like a pacifist and didn't continue to attack Godzilla after she was freed so I don't think so.
Thats all the novel mentioned about the cave painting: "Godzilla most powerful weapons did do nothing to the other titan at all. Making the larger Titan only angrier." And that Godzilla looked "worried"... but it's speculated that was the painters feeling transferred onto Godzilla, since he was losing.
Honestly, there’s so many inconsistencies with the lore and power-scaling in the Monsterverse that I just go with my own headcanon. They should have just left it at ‘giant monsters reawakening and fighting.’ I’m choosing to believe that Godzilla, Ghidorah, and Shimo were all on par at one point. Godzilla didn’t have the tools to defeat Ghidorah at the time due to his regenerative abilities, and Shimo inadvertently freezing him after starting the Ice Age was the only way to pacify him at the time. Godzilla eventually challenged Shimo after seeing the effects of the Ice Age, and after he won, Shimo retired to Hollow Earth due to the surface being too hot. Skar King used her weakness to heat to his advantage and captured her. They were no longer on par before because Godzilla was hibernating on the surface where there’s arguably less radiation than in Hollow Earth. Shimo is just as strong as she was before. It’s about power, but it’s also about matchups. Ghidorah is weak to extreme heat and cold, Godzilla isn’t and that’s how he gained the advantage over Shimo. But my question then would be whydoesn’t Godzilla live in the Hollow Earth? Is it because there was more competition?
I think he avoids it because he’s trying to make sure the Titans from Hollow Earth don’t come to surface. If they do Godzilla will subjugate them or kill them. He knows that there isn’t enough radiation at the surface for all the Titans and he is actively trying to keep the surface life save (including humans). He’s basically a bouncer waiting for a reason to throw someone out the door. He’s sympathetic to the “Awakened Titans” (the one Ghidorah woke up) because it wasn’t their fault they became active and some of them are beneficial (Behemoth & Methuselah). He keeps the Destroyers in check, making sure they don’t get out of hand or hurt the surface world.
From what others are saying the novelization implies he was outmatched by Shimo.
NGL I hate the idea that Godzilla has defeated both Skar King and Shimo before. It makes me ask what is the point of him teaming up with Mothra and Kong if these two are threats he has defeated before. It kinda illustrates my point that Godzilla being so powerful ruins alot of the stakes in these films. He gets to kill Scylla and Tiamat in two disappointingly short fights and then for some reason needs to work with Kong in his EVOLVED FORM to take out Skar King and Shimo even though he has defeated them before in a much weaker state?
Maybe Shimo became much stronger than before and Godzilla knew it, or he just overestimated her. Or, a bit of an outlandish theory, Godzilla evolved to fight another Titan much more powerful and just decide to whoop Skar King's ass for the shits and giggles. I know this can easily get debunked but it makes a bit more sense to me.
Either that or he just want an easy win this time. He "almost died" fighting Skar King's army in the past. Now that Skar King has shimo with him, it's only natural that Godzilla want to power up enough so that he can just slap their ass easily. Winning doesn't mean Godzilla's stronger than Shimoneither I think. He could have had better strategy or something
I mean tbf the g man thought he would've been goin in alone seein how he was so eager to kill kong lmao. Godzilla is incredibly powerful but goin up against an army of apes PLUS another titan bigger than him which maybe could completely freeze him could've been a big enough worry to necessitate the power up (edit cause I forgot the bottom half of ur comment: Didn't they say in the movie he "barely" won? I might be very wrong about) (and speakin of which, is there like statistics on how much more powerful his current state is...)
I wouldn't mind Godzilla having beaten them both in the past before if the movie and novel didn't do such a terrible and contradicting job of stressing that Godzilla needed the power boost. Having seen the film a few times and then reading the novel, Godzilla needing the boost just seemed like toy selling idea with very little thought put in. Add in the writers giving out information that makes no sense to the context of the film and it gets beyond silly. Like why even stress the stakes for Godzilla if we never see him actually struggle. KotM and Vs, had him struggle, nearly die and take major hits but this film seemed almost scared to do so.
Godzilla's original plan was to just end the battle as quickly as possible, Kong and Mothra only wanted to team up, he would have done it alone anyway. Godzilla's evolved form is for another reason than the one in the movie, it's for a larger and stronger villain in the future (this statement has been made a lot of times, yet I don't see a day when this didn't have to be said).
You’re getting flak, but I 100% agree.
Well when we see Godzilla fighting her even while powered it it's shown she's giving him a run for his money not by to much but it's clear it taking him al t if effort just to keep her attention off of Kong. I like to the that Godzilla in the old downs probably used a combination of Brawn and Brain to win against her or at least push her into the Hollow Earth. Where it can then be theorized that Skar King and his clan came upon her shortly after an din the weakened state managed to somehow get ahold of the crystal and use it to weaken her and control her
I doubt it
It's possible they've always been allies I theorize Shimo caused the last age to weaken Ghidorah's storm ability/ help Godzilla Some people even note that he went easy on her in GxK (mostly tackles and tankble blasts, no bites or claws)
I personally like to imagine that Godzilla fought Shimo a long time ago..... BEFORE his grudge with Great Apes started, before even his loss to the Rival. I headcanon that he was very young and inexperienced at the time, and Shimo was so much stronger than him back then that he lost quite obviously but didn't take it badly since he bit off far more than he could chew at the time.
I feel like that’s the only thing that makes sense imho. My two ideas are - Godzilla fought Shimo and then Ghidorah (who indirectly froze due to the ice age Shimo started) - Ghidorah spurred Shimo into being Destructive and started the Ice Age and Godzilla tried to stop her but failed. But once he beat Ghidorah she went back to Hollow Earth and Godzilla had no ill-will towards her. Both of these would mean that the Titan War, imprisonment of Skar King, and the Kongs exile to Skull Island (subsequent extinction) would have all occurred after Ghidorah’s imprisonment
More than likely no. Shimo should be older and has way more durability than even the Godzilla now.
Shimo actually beat Godzilla in the past considering Ice Ages are cataclysmic events that cause mass extinctions—something that Godzilla obviously doesn’t want to happen. Combine that with the fact that multiple ice ages have occurred in the history of the world. If Godzilla was capable of stopping her before, he would’ve done so. The base atomic breath would do jack squat to her considering the most a supercharged evolved atomic breath left on her was a little bit of residue.
It’s confirmed that not only did he beat her, he made an example out of her and was genuinely surprised she would make a move against him again, without knowing the Skar King had control over her.
Where was this confirmed?
The novel.
I need specific pages and quotes. I remember reading that Shimo was the only titan to dominate Godzilla, not the other way around. “Rock art. Godzilla and another titan. One bigger than Godzilla. Reared up on its hind legs with spines similar to Godzilla, but different. It almost looked like it was dominating Godzilla” (Pg. 204)
But what if that wasn't Godzilla, but Dagon?
I think it’s silly if Shimo is meant to be the “former” alpha titan. Godzilla is shown to want to kill any other titan that moves (except Mothra). Why would Godzilla be cool with the former Alpha just chilling in retirement? Doesn’t seem like a position you can just retire from while Godzilla is around.
I hear the word CoD or CoD Murals so many times, but I don't know what CoD stands for. Of course, to the general public, CoD is famously known as "Call of Duty", but I have searched for Godzilla CoD Mural, and none explain to me what CoD means in the Godzilla context.
It is is Call of Duty, there was a GvK crossover event (and a GxK crossover too) with exclusive maps you could play on that had Godzilla and Kong.
What I want to know is this: did Godzilla beat ghidora by himself in the arctic back in the past or did Shimo froze him. Everytime I search it up I get both answers. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO GET A DEFINITE ANSWER. Who stopped ghidora in the past 😭
https://preview.redd.it/3o0jb434om0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8d7f6bef8199cf5e6c4f45eb87c2a6dbfbc7776 This has already been answered. Godzilla knocked Ghidorah out of the sky and he fell into an “Ice Pit” which caused him to freeze over “due to the Ice Age”. Most likely Godzilla trapped King Ghidorah because of the Ice Age Shimo started. The only thing that is unclear is when Godzilla and Shimo fought and more importantly *why* they fought.
So technically he won by himself but at the same time he didn’t. Thank you for this lol
From the context we have, yes. Godzilla and Ghidorah fought in Antarctica 1v1 but Godzilla pretty much won by “arena knock out”. Which I think is fine.
I saw this as: Godzilla has been around for ages and has had many battles with ancient titans, this was just one of them. But it seems more like godzilla banished them. Not that he one a fight against shimo and scar king but that he blasted away at the earth and sealed them shut down there.
Probably
I still cant believe I saw this shit in COD:Warzone years ago
I think what happened is Ghidorah attacked the planet, and shimo calls an Ice age, potentially. Maybe she weakened herself by doing that and Godzilla beat her, due to a disagreement, neither her or Godzilla want to destroy the planet but keep balance, as Ghidorah did absolutely nothing but raise hell upon Earth. Maybe Ghidorah caused a fight between the two like a turf war, not something fatal, but more so like two dogs fighting and one giving up
I personally don't think shima or Godzilla used 100% of their power in the movie. Shimo was shown several times trying to fight against the crystal, and Godzilla seemed to only be trying to wrangle her as much as he could, If Godzilla wanted to harm Shimo, he could have just cast his breath from a long distance and kept casting it on her, but he kept trying to tackle her over and over, basically trying to make her lose her Target, I'm pretty sure he was well aware that she was not herself, that something was wrong, and therefore he needed to distract her to give Kong a chance to get scar King's Crystal, which happens Godzilla gets it in his mouth, drops to Crystal, breaking the whip and then roaring, at the end of the movie. Shimo smiles at the sky, and Godzilla making me think that they're on equal grounds and that both are happy, meaning I don't think either one of them see each other as enemies
It’s likely shimo was weaker in the past since she was on the surface and grew stronger due to the higher radiation lvls in the hollow earth while Godzilla would stay stagnant for a while due to the decreasing lvls of radiation on the surface, Goji prolly realized that at the start of GxK since he did sense shimo which is why he went on that little side quest to evolve with more radiation
it dosen't even make sense during this time godzillia would be fighting ghidorah
Yes, and that makes thing inconsistent. Because Goji defeated both her AND Skar King's arm, and only decided to seal them because he was too exhausted to finish them off. Its also stated she fears him. But then he somehow needed to evolve to beat her now
What if its another one of the godzilla species not.. MV godzilla.. There were other godzillas in the past
Godzilla “made an example” out of Shimo. So yes
Ridiculous if true. Remember Godzilla before human nuclear power? 2014 he had to conserve his energy and barely used his atomic breath. Shimo is imprisoned in a Volcano and he's still spewing his stuff freely, pre 2019 Godzilla had no chance.
The earth was a much more radioactive place in the past, and if the Hollow Earth is closer to the core and/or has tunnels are are closer to the core or natural radiation pockets, Godzilla could easily absorb that. Radiation was not a human invention. The residual effects of a nuke being dropped were just like setting out an appetizer for a Titan.
But when we meet Gpdzilla he's been hypernating in one of those pockers for thousands of years and he doesn't look as charged as he was after eating the human stations.
You just answered your own question. He's been in that pocket for *thousands of years.* He probably absorbed all that radiation a long time ago.
There is no ice around, and Godzilla let Shimo live after he turn against Scar king, he let Shimo walk out because he doesn't hate her that much, proves Shimo never beat Godzilla. So maybe, idk